169 replies
Just got an email from Matt Barrie, Chief Executive of Freelancer.com. He says he welcomes suggestions and:

Effective immediately we are making a few permanent improvements to pricing:
* All WSO listings will now be reduced from $40 to $20
* All War Room members will have their 20 year membership extended to lifetime, immediately. Moving forward new memberships will be $20 per year.

EDIT: Here's the entire email.

Hi travlinguy,

This is Matt Barrie, Chief Executive of Freelancer.com.

I am pleased to announce that Warrior Forum has joined the Freelancer family.

We are excited and looking forward to working with you to better support the community.

Allen Says founded Warrior Forum in 1997 and I’ve personally watched the community grow to over 730,000 members, becoming the world’s largest Internet marketing forum.

If you haven’t visited the forum in a while make sure you check out all the improvements that have been made at www.warriorforum.com!

We will be allocating substantial resources to further grow the site. We will be dedicating engineers to build features and customer experience specialists to interact with the community in order to understand intimately what you like. They’ll be working closely with the moderators moving forward.

The most important thing, however, is that we listen to you- the community. We’ll be going through the suggestions section and would love to hear more about your ideas and feedback.

Also please feel free to email me at matt@freelancer.com with any suggestions, ideas, and thoughts or just to touch base and introduce yourself.

Effective immediately we are making a few permanent improvements to pricing:
* All WSO listings will now be reduced from $40 to $20
* All War Room members will have their 20 year membership extended to lifetime, immediately. Moving forward new memberships will be $20 per year.

Thank you for your support of Warrior Forum in the past and I look forward to working with you to take Warrior Forum to the next phase!

Regards,
Matt Barrie
#$20 #back #wsos
  • Profile picture of the author nicholasb
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author XponentSYS
      Originally Posted by nicholasb View Post

      that would be awesome if every wso.... CENSORED
      THAT is outside the forums control. MY WSOs are membership sites. Seems to do well combating that problem.

      In the interest of WSO sellers ....

      Posting comments like this promote the fact that WSOs may be obtained through means less than legitimate. Wouldn't be a bad idea to delete your post.....

      I know you didn't mean any harm.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alaister
      Originally Posted by nicholasb View Post

      that would be awesome if every wso didnt end up on a ******* site the day you listed it
      This is something we'll definitely be looking at.

      We could have a team that constantly monitors this. Not very effective or scalable though.

      Any suggestions on how we can solve?
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      • Profile picture of the author RobinInTexas
        Originally Posted by Alaister View Post

        This is something we'll definitely be looking at.

        We could have a team that constantly monitors this. Not very effective or scalable though.

        Any suggestions on how we can solve?
        Can't be solved, there are too many ways to share. I don't know what Micro$oft spends on anti-piracy but people are still able to get around their system.
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  • Profile picture of the author xxxJamesxxx
    Personally, I don't think it's a good thing (WSOs going to $20 that is).

    It's just gonna lower the quality, plus your WSO threads will sink faster than the Titanic.

    No biggie for me anyway, haven't done one for years.

    James Scholes
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    • Profile picture of the author brutecky
      Originally Posted by xxxJamesxxx View Post

      Personally, I don't think it's a good thing (WSOs going to $20 that is).

      It's just gonna lower the quality, plus your WSO threads will sink faster than the Titanic.

      No biggie for me anyway, haven't done one for years.

      James Scholes
      This is silly.

      a) Like a $20 difference is such a big thing that its going to suddenly enable people who couldnt afford it before to make products and do WSO's .. come on really.

      b) Unlike most people I ran a WSO for over 6 months consistently, bumping 5x a month. I tracked and charted the sales and hits every day for those 6 months. Guess what I found most sales DONT happen when the WSO is on the first page.
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      • Profile picture of the author shane_k
        Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

        This is silly.

        a) Like a $20 difference is such a big thing that its going to suddenly enable people who couldnt afford it before to make products and do WSO's .. come on really.

        This is what I don't understand either.

        Everyone is acting like there is such a huge difference between $40 and $20

        As if people who are going to scam and/or make low quality products are gonna be like, "$20 sweet, let's do this."

        Or

        "$40 gosh that's too darn expensive for me. I guess I better go somewhere else."

        lol
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        • Profile picture of the author shane_k
          Originally Posted by Alex Blades View Post


          Good for the little guy looking to launch their own product

          I don't agree for the same reason I posted above. There is very little difference between $20 and $40.

          You and others are acting like the $20 difference is huge. It's not.

          If you really think about what you are saying you will realize how ridiculous it is.

          You are basically saying that in the past there have been people (the little guy) who might have wanted to produce a WSO, but they couldn't afford the $40 fee. $20 bucks they can come up with, but $40? No. that's too expensive.


          I mean how seriously broke or poor does someone have to be for $20 to be a huge difference in their choice on whether or not to produce a WSO?

          If someone in the past, was able to come up with $20, but didn't have another $20 either in their wallet, or in their bank account, then they have bigger problems in their life on whether they can afford to launch their own product or not.



          Bad because it drops your WSO from the front page faster than flies on poop.
          This is a legitimate argument, but look at what Joseph mentions below, which I think is true.

          Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post


          Dropping off of the first page quickly can be a good thing! Lets just say that you launch a WSO and it drops off the first page fast with little or no sales, what you would do is bump it and when it slides off the 1st page again, examine the results.

          This is your opportunity to do a little split testing, such as going over your copy to see what can be tweaked. You may want to change the title, maybe rearrange some images or add more testimonials.
          The good marketers, the ones who are success are probably looking at this as a god send, because they know that it is an opportunity, a challenge, and that they are flexible enough and skilled enough to adapt.

          and because they are going to adapt they are not worried, and know that they will rise to the top anyway.
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          • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
            I don't agree for the same reason I posted above. There is very little difference between $20 and $40.

            You and others are acting like the $20 difference is huge. It's not.

            If you really think about what you are saying you will realize how ridiculous it is.

            You are basically saying that in the past there have been people (the little guy) who might have wanted to produce a WSO, but they couldn't afford the $40 fee. $20 bucks they can come up with, but $40? No. that's too expensive.


            I mean how seriously broke or poor does someone have to be for $20 to be a huge difference in their choice on whether or not to produce a WSO?

            If someone in the past, was able to come up with $20, but didn't have another $20 either in their wallet, or in their bank account, then they have bigger problems in their life on whether they can afford to launch their own product or not.
            Twenty dollars may not make a difference to you, but it makes a world of a difference to thousands of others. You are leaving out the cost of product creation, graphics, copy and then a $40 fee for something that has a great chance of failing. We have thousands of writers who write 500 word articles for 2-5 dollars, or rent themselves out as V.A's for $2/hour and you say $20 is nothing? Get your head out your ass, and realize that not everybody is in the same situation as you. The real world has financial problems, and every little bit help

            There is a reason why the WSO's are dropping to the 3rd page in half a day ATM, and that's because the $20 has made a huge difference

            The good marketers, the ones who are success are probably looking at this as a god send, because they know that it is an opportunity, a challenge, and that they are flexible enough and skilled enough to adapt.

            and because they are going to adapt they are not worried, and know that they will rise to the top anyway.
            I've seen a season marketer test the wso section to see how fast his wso drops, and he was very upset about it. He makes 40-80k on most of his launches, but he's not a good marketer because you say they are not "flexible" enough or skilled to adapt? If they adapt, they will adapt by taking their product launches somewhere else.
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          • Profile picture of the author lotsofsnow
            If you get 1/2 the traffic for $20 compared to $40 it does not make so much of a difference.

            Twenty bucks looks cheaper, that's for sure.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
            Originally Posted by shane_k View Post

            You and others are acting like the $20 difference is huge. It's not.

            If you really think about what you are saying you will realize how ridiculous it is.
            Shane, $20 may not be much to you, but it's a very big difference to folks from some countries. It's the difference between two days pay and four in some places, maybe even more in others.
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            • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
              Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

              Shane, $20 may not be much to you, but it's a very big difference to folks from some countries. It's the difference between two days pay and four in some places, maybe even more in others.

              I can't even take my family to a fast food place for $20, but in two thirds of the world, you can feed a family for week.

              Not everybody has 2-$3000 to spend on a shiny graphics and hypnotic sales copy, they have to treat their budget like jump rope and know when to jump in. Failure is not an option for alot of people, because it will drain their budgets. There is a reason why WSO's are dropping faster than Bill Clinton's pants, because that $20 decrease allows them minimize their risk.

              Some people forget that the world is bigger than their living room, and people are really hurting to make ends meet out there.
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              • Profile picture of the author Katie Rich
                Originally Posted by Alex Blades View Post

                I can't even take my family to a fast food place for $20, but in two thirds of the world, you can feed a family for week.
                Some people forget that the world is bigger than their living room, and people are really hurting to make ends meet out there.
                And some just don't care, so long as they can still get articles for $2 or graphics done for $5. I was recently in Sri Lanka. A months wage for a hotel worker was less than $100.
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        • Profile picture of the author magnamino
          Originally Posted by shane_k View Post

          This is what I don't understand either.

          Everyone is acting like there is such a huge difference between $40 and $20

          As if people who are going to scam and/or make low quality products are gonna be like, "$20 sweet, let's do this."

          Or

          "$40 gosh that's too darn expensive for me. I guess I better go somewhere else."

          lol
          That is exactly what I was thinking: If $40 makes someone say "I can't afford to offer my product at this Ad price" and $20 says "Let's do this" ....
          Come on, Really!! If a $20 difference in price makes you hesitate, then you are in the wrong business..go back to picking up aluminum cans.

          Want to help get rid of the junk offers then make it $20 for the initial posting and $40 to bump. If you are making sales with a quality product, you won't mind the bump fee.
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          • Originally Posted by magnamino View Post

            Come on, Really!! If a $20 difference in price makes you hesitate, then you are in the wrong business.
            Logically that's a good argument in my opinion, and I've heard it echoed across the forum. However, it appears that $20 in fact does make a difference from what Ive seen in the last few days. Old timers are bumping more frequently, and newcomers are now experimenting by trying a WSO ad.

            Both parties (including those who praise the change) will find out for themselves whether the lower price has actually been beneficial for them or not.
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            • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
              Personally I like the price drop - and I am a big girl - if that brings in more spammy WSOs then I am old enough to sniff them out and pass them by - I am a capitalist at heart - let's give everyone an easier way to make money cause there is enough for everyone!
              I also feel that even though we are members, it's not our forum - the owners can do whatever they want and if we don't like it, well we can leave - noone is forcing us to be members of any forum - right?

              I am in favor of categories for WSOs - I think that would be very easy to implement and it would solve lots of dropping from page 1 problems for the non-MMO WSOs

              I am looking forward to the changes - changes are good - that is how we grow

              peace out ...
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  • Profile picture of the author KishanS
    I wonder how long a WSO is going to last on the 1st page with the new pricing in effect.
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by KishanS View Post

      I wonder how long a WSO is going to last on the 1st page with the new pricing in effect.
      As about as long as it did before it was increased from $20 to $40 a few years ago...

      Which was not very long...

      However, not nearly as many WSOs are being launched today as they were a year or two ago. A lot of folks have moved to "private" launches outside the forum.

      Cheers,
      Coby
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      Originally Posted by KishanS View Post

      I wonder how long a WSO is going to last on the 1st page with the new pricing in effect.
      Cumulatively, it won't any difference exposure wise, because the faster it gets to page 3 the faster it can be bumped.
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    • Profile picture of the author 1stargeneral
      Banned
      Originally Posted by KishanS View Post

      I wonder how long a WSO is going to last on the 1st page with the new pricing in effect.
      You know, I kinda agree with you. But a product that is worth it maintains the Page 1 because people's response will keep it up. That is what i think
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  • Profile picture of the author cousinfizz
    Hey Coby!

    Hope you are well? I was just looking over some of your WSO's just a couple of nights ago that I bought from you, the Ninja stuff (squeeze and site) a year ago or so.. when you gonna have some more for us? I liked your info, it was good and not all that expensive either. hey, at only $20 for a listing what can you offer us in the near future? Take care and all the best.. Fizzz
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by cousinfizz View Post

      Hey Coby!

      Hope you are well? I was just looking over some of your WSO's just a couple of nights ago that I bought from you, the Ninja stuff (squeeze and site) a year ago or so.. when you gonna have some more for us? I liked your info, it was good and not all that expensive either. hey, at only $20 for a listing what can you offer us in the near future? Take care and all the best.. Fizzz
      Hey Fizzz,

      Thanks for the kind words! I'll have another software ready for you soon!

      You are right! Now that the price is reduced I have no excuse. I should be doing twice as many, right?

      I love the WSO section and we are lucky to have such an awesome marketplace at our fingertips.

      Cheers,
      Coby
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Omnibus reply...
        I agree that it isn't difficult to cover a $20 fee yearly, but the point is that the War Room membership was great value and has now been changed to be a lot more expensive. If your going to use that arguement you could say that a $47 or $57 yearly fee can be covered easily also. Where do you draw the line.
        While I agree it's worth the investment and more, there's a point here that seems to have gone unmentioned in this whole discussion. I haven't seen anyone bring it up, anyway.

        For 17 years, Allen owned the place and could make decisions based on whatever he wanted. As I understand it, Freelancer is part of a publicly traded company. As such, it has a legal obligation to build profits for its shareholders.

        While it's possible the individuals involved share Allen's general philosophy about the forum, the fiduciary responsibilities of a publicly traded company place certain constraints on them that will affect decisions.

        That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is very different from what we've become used to. It is also something that must be considered when evaluating changes.

        That's the new reality.
        I'm also in favour of quality control for the Wso section.
        Keep in mind that every change has good and bad elements.

        For example, they could easily go back to the original spirit of the WSO section, and require that you must show that you've actually sold the product outside the forum before you could offer it in that area. That would eliminate virtually all the "made for WSO" stuff. Most of the junk products fit into that category, so it would eliminate a lot of that.

        It would also drive out a lot of people who create solid products (software, graphics, themes, etc) and sell them here first, to raise money for further business development.

        Is that a good trade-off? Should they take away that opportunity in order to "protect" some people from making what are quite often obviously dumb purchases?

        They could always post them in the classifieds section, but would they be able to get affiliates for offers there?

        These are the kinds of things that have to be considered when making policy. How does it affect the customers? And how does it affect the bottom line, which will (and properly should) be given more weight now that a publicly traded company is involved.
        What should ultimately be implemented is an eBay-style ratings system where only confirmed buyers of a WSO can leave feedback. With such a system, you immediately weed out most of the "reviews" from people who are obviously friends/acquaintances of the seller. It also keeps WF off the hook since it it not WF providing the feedback.
        That would be great if, as I've mentioned many times before, there was a way for the forum software to verify that the person doing the rating had actually bought the product.

        No way to do that at present.
        ultimately, I have to wonder where exactly the resistance to buyer feedback is really coming from.
        You are far too smart to say things like that, Tom. You know better.

        If there were any resistance to buyer feedback, would we encourage people to post their reviews? Would the mods flatly refuse to delete negative reviews that stick to the rules? Would we let sellers leave because they don't like/can't live up to the standards of selling in a responsive environment?

        "Resistance is fiction."
        Lots of opinions and controversy about new prices and value. I wonder if this mirrors the reactions years ago?
        It does. Precisely.

        The same arguments come up no matter what changes you suggest regarding ad pricing. Have ever since Allen started charging for WSO listings.
        I think that the article section should be re-opened too.
        Not my decision, obviously, but I would strongly recommend against that, unless someone were tasked with the specific function of rejecting articles that were primarily ads.

        That was the most badly abused section of this forum. Most of what I saw posted in there was purely promotional. Certainly not anything that would encourage me to read more by the same author.

        Side note to .X. : If I could thank a post thrice, I'd have done so for yours at #74.

        General comments follow (meaning: not directed at the people whose posts I responded to above)...

        I'm going to throw a little cold water at some of you: If your posts give the impression that you're here to take and not give, you are likely among the last people whose opinions will be considered when making financial decisions.

        People who spend money will be priorities. People who contribute to the discussions in useful ways increase the value of the forum, so they're going to be priorities. People who do anything to make the place better are going to be viewed in a positive light, and listened to.

        If the only thing you bring to the table is a pocketful of complaints and negativity, you will not be seen as anything but a liability to be removed.

        Constructive criticism is valuable. Whiny grousing for the sake of being heard is not. In a corporate-driven environment, you may also find that it's not allowed.

        That would not break my heart.


        Paul
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        • Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          For example, they could easily go back to the original spirit of the WSO section, and require that you must show that you've actually sold the product outside the forum before you could offer it in that area.
          That would be a "point gun at own foot and shoot" scenario for Freelancer if they required that you had to show that you've actually sold the product outside the forum.

          I have actually been supporting that concept and only launched WSO's of which I could show my live websites selling my WSO at much higher prices.

          I did this mainly due to the following rule:

          "3. A Warrior Special Offer Means The Price You Give Must Be Better Than The Price The Public At Large Can Get. (This is not a "buy my product" forum, it is a "Special Offer" forum)"

          However, it appears that the WSO section has in fact become just a "buy my product" section, because I can rarely find these so called WSO's being sold elsewhere.

          Maybe time to delete that rule, Or, implement it?
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        • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          You are far too smart to say things like that, Tom. You know better.

          If there were any resistance to buyer feedback, would we encourage people to post their reviews? Would the mods flatly refuse to delete negative reviews that stick to the rules? Would we let sellers leave because they don't like/can't live up to the standards of selling in a responsive environment?
          I didn't mean to imply those in charge are against it. I was questioning why sellers would be so against it.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Tom,
            I didn't mean to imply those in charge are against it. I was questioning why sellers would be so against it.
            Ah. Well, I'll just go back to my corner now...

            Seriously, as far as sellers being against it, some are and some aren't. The one who don't like it fall generally into 2 categories. Folks who don't know how to handle communications with the inevitable unhappy customer and folks who don't want people to know what their products are really all about.

            The first group need to learn. Unfortunately, many of them won't - or can't. The second group get no sympathy from me at all. If you can't give people enough information to make an informed decision, or if you fail to recognize that no product is right for everyone, you need to reconsider your products.

            That's the "generic" you, by the way. Not the "you, Tom" you.


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  • Profile picture of the author evilsaigon
    I think they should limit the number of new WSOs that can be implemented at any time (say 1 every hour, or based on how they deem fit) to prevent the bombardment issue.
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    • Profile picture of the author 1stargeneral
      Banned
      Originally Posted by evilsaigon View Post

      I think they should limit the number of new WSOs that can be implemented at any time (say 1 every hour, or based on how they deem fit) to prevent the bombardment issue.
      I don't think that might go down well because that will make the job more stressful for the MOD
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    • Profile picture of the author Omar White
      Originally Posted by evilsaigon View Post

      I think they should limit the number of new WSOs that can be implemented at any time (say 1 every hour, or based on how they deem fit) to prevent the bombardment issue.

      I totally agree with the time limit...

      In fact we have to send this as a suggestion to freelancer.com
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by oliver mayfair View Post

        I totally agree with the time limit...

        In fact we have to send this as a suggestion to freelancer.com
        Like Allen, Freelancer.com is a business. Actually, freelancer is a public company with shareholders. They're in this for profit. They're responsible for trying to make money any legitimate way they can. They're honoring present War Room lifetime memberships but charging $20 per year for new ones. That will generate a lot of revenue.

        Everyone thinking the quality of WSOs will go down with a cheaper price needs to realize the quality went down significantly around the time the price went to $40. The quality of the offers has nothing to do with the ad fee.

        As mentioned, quality suffered when affiliates got a strong foothold. People were publishing WSOs on how to make a killing promoting WSOs using affiliate platforms. It was a feeding frenzy.

        I highly doubt you're going to see Freelancer limiting the number of WSOs that can launch per day. $20 x 24 (one per hour) = $480 per day. Think of that for a minute. Ain't gonna happen.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by RobinInTexas View Post

        I like to see the hyped up claims. The easiest way to identify pure malarkey is when you see a promise of $1,000,000 annual income for less than $20.
        I never thought of it in that exact way, but it's a good point. The only fly in the ointment is that some people do fall for those claims.
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    • Profile picture of the author zajacik
      I agree that WSO's should be limited per hour and day. I hope it gets to that point.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
        Banned
        I think a lot of people forget that the WSO is a good place to learn how to sell. I was making some sales before coming to the forum but really started learning more about the sales process and sales funnels from this forum.

        Part of that was putting offers in the wso section.

        Some of those previous sales offers spurred a whole line of products for me. All because I tested it there first.

        Many of the people that purchased those offers are still customers and friends of mine.

        I think that was back before Allen was using vbulletin.

        There is much more to this forum then making direct sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author Melissahoster
    Banned
    Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

    Just got an email from Matt Barrie, Chief Executive of Freelancer.com. He says he welcomes suggestions and:

    Effective immediately we are making a few permanent improvements to pricing:
    * All WSO listings will now be reduced from $40 to $20
    * All War Room members will have their 20 year membership extended to lifetime, immediately. Moving forward new memberships will be $20 per year.

    If that's what the acquisition means, I'm happy about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Max Anderson
    That´s going to lower the quality even further, I fear...
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    • Profile picture of the author XponentSYS
      Originally Posted by Max Anderson View Post

      That´s going to lower the quality even further, I fear...
      I understand the thought process here. However, if you look at the hard data and compare the WSOs listed at $20 versus $40, you will find that the difference in quality collectively is marginal at best.

      This suggests that there is little to no correlation between the listing fee and offer quality
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Tom,
        But the current system doesn't address a full first two pages of a seller's cronies shilling for as product.
        If you see that, and they haven't posted disclaimers about being affiliates or receiving review copies, report it.
        Implementing a system where only verified buyers could leave feedback wouldn't be a bad thing.
        It would be a great thing, assuming it were technically possible. A lot would have to change for that to become the case.

        Sandie,
        They can still say "hey shilling buddy buy my WSO & leave a review. On the back end I'll give you back your money" It won't be a "refund" through W+/JVZoo so that the system doesn't mark it as the person received a refund. Just a separate payment via PayPal.
        Believe it, that would end up getting reported, and people would lose accounts wholesale.

        That also steps over the line from lack of disclaimers to outright fraud. Not worth it, for most people.


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      • Profile picture of the author rr1958
        Originally Posted by XponentSYS View Post

        I understand the thought process here. However, if you look at the hard data and compare the WSOs listed at $20 versus $40, you will find that the difference in quality collectively is marginal at best.

        This suggests that there is little to no correlation between the listing fee and offer quality
        Warrior Fourn has a long history of providing quality information. I agree with Xponent. When I look back at the WSO's I've purchased, the cost has little to do with the quality. I've purchased some pretty poor WSO's and some really good ones.
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    • Profile picture of the author 1stargeneral
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Max Anderson View Post

      That´s going to lower the quality even further, I fear...
      No, i disagree. It actually creates huge competition. So if you must come out with something, you have got to be that intelligent to command the attention of the members or prospective buyers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joan Altz
    Sure, the lower price may lead to threads disappearing faster, but you can bump it again when it does and that equals the $40 you would normally pay.

    I'd rather see newbies have a chance at doing better than breaking even on their first WSO than worry so much about the lower quality WSOs that will likely show up. Right now what I see are the same successful WSOs being bumped repeatedly. Makes it hard to spot new material sometimes. Point: There are pros and cons to everything.

    I know for some running a WSO it's like pulling the one-armed-bandit in Vegas, hoping to hit the jackpot, and people find out soon enough that it doesn't work that way, but change is good now and then. Nothing to fear about it at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alaister
      Originally Posted by Joan Altz View Post

      Sure, the lower price may lead to threads disappearing faster, but you can bump it again when it does and that equals the $40 you would normally pay.

      I'd rather see newbies have a chance at doing better than breaking even on their first WSO than worry so much about the lower quality WSOs that will likely show up. Right now what I see are the same successful WSOs being bumped repeatedly. Makes it hard to spot new material sometimes. Point: There are pros and cons to everything.

      I know for some running a WSO it's like pulling the one-armed-bandit in Vegas, hoping to hit the jackpot, and people find out soon enough that it doesn't work that way, but change is good now and then. Nothing to fear about it at all.
      We'll be constantly monitoring the WSOs and want to also help new people get in there making money.

      We'll be keeping the same moderation process to ensure we keep the standards high. The last thing we want is spammy WSOs.
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      • Profile picture of the author salegurus
        Originally Posted by Alaister View Post

        We'll be keeping the same moderation process to ensure we keep the standards high. The last thing we want is spammy WSOs.
        I think that's one of the reasons why Allen raised the price to $40, to keep out the spammy, hit and run WSO's...
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  • Profile picture of the author M3C
    Be interesting if the new folks tolerate the awful proof of earnings rubbish that goes on in the WSO section.

    It would be all for the better if they simply refused to allow people posting the low - rent "make $10k" a day crap.

    I would have increased the WSO price to $500 for "money making" WSO's.

    If you're really making the incredibly easy money you say you are, it's no big deal.

    Hopefully they will also move all the "SEO " WSO's in to their own section as well.

    Most of them are awful outdated tat that will do more harm than good the second you get a manual inspection.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alaister
      Originally Posted by M3C View Post

      Be interesting if the new folks tolerate the awful proof of earnings rubbish that goes on in the WSO section.

      It would be all for the better if they simply refused to allow people posting the low - rent "make $10k" a day crap.
      Yeh this is something I've seen a few people talking about and suggesting. We'll be looking into this.
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  • Profile picture of the author adcnet
    I like Freelancers immediate change to make an impression by putting the pricing low again to $20 - will this mean a crazy influx of poorly made products (not sure). Time will tell...

    I think products created in 1hr will be flying up -well if you can make $500-$1000 each time I guess its worth itfor $20!

    Thanks Freelancer for lowering the barrier to entry!
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
    Well, to be honest I think its a good thing to lower the cost for entry to a WSO, however as some others posted there is a concern about quality, back in the old days, there was always a quality issue, but there were more sellers with integrity.

    I would love to see a better review process before a WSO gets to the buyers.

    Another good method of increasing the quality of WSO offers would be to divide Products into categories, Software, info products, should not be competing for eyeballs, because they have two separate buying markets.

    Its good to know that Freelancer.com is open to suggestions, I think it will all work out for a better marketing place for those warriors with a gueniune, desire to provide quality products at a sustainable price.
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    • Profile picture of the author BradCarroll
      Originally Posted by Tim Franklin View Post


      Another good method of increasing the quality of WSO offers would be to divide Products into categories, Software, info products, should not be competing for eyeballs, because they have two separate buying markets.
      .
      I was thinking the same thing. Segmenting the WSO section up into product categories would solve some of the "my offer fell from Page 1 in 30 minutes" type problems. I know that personally, this kind of segmentation would help me both as a buyer and as a seller!
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      • Profile picture of the author SolFood
        Originally Posted by BradCarroll View Post

        I was thinking the same thing. Segmenting the WSO section up into product categories would solve some of the "my offer fell from Page 1 in 30 minutes" type problems. I know that personally, this kind of segmentation would help me both as a buyer and as a seller!
        makes sense from a navigational point of view, either buying or selling.
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  • Profile picture of the author cooler1
    Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

    Just got an email from Matt Barrie, Chief Executive of Freelancer.com. He says he welcomes suggestions and:

    Effective immediately we are making a few permanent improvements to pricing:
    * All WSO listings will now be reduced from $40 to $20
    * All War Room members will have their 20 year membership extended to lifetime, immediately. Moving forward new memberships will be $20 per year.
    To go from War Room membership being $40 lifetime to $200 a decade seems OTT. Doesn't sound good at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
      Originally Posted by cooler1 View Post

      To go from War Room membership being $40 lifetime to $200 a decade seems OTT. Doesn't sound good at all.
      However, if you're in here 10 years and can't afford $20 per year, it might be time to call it quits. You should have learned something to cover that $20 fee if you're utilizing the site right and absorbing and implementing the tips.
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      • Profile picture of the author cooler1
        Originally Posted by TiffanyLambert View Post

        However, if you're in here 10 years and can't afford $20 per year, it might be time to call it quits. You should have learned something to cover that $20 fee if you're utilizing the site right and absorbing and implementing the tips.
        I agree that it isn't difficult to cover a $20 fee yearly, but the point is that the War Room membership was great value and has now been changed to be a lot more expensive. If your going to use that arguement you could say that a $47 or $57 yearly fee can be covered easily also. Where do you draw the line.
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        • Profile picture of the author M3C
          Originally Posted by cooler1 View Post

          I agree that it isn't difficult to cover a $20 fee yearly, but the point is that the War Room membership was great value and has now been changed to be a lot more expensive. If your going to use that arguement you could say that a $47 or $57 yearly fee can be covered easily also. Where do you draw the line.
          It's STILL absurdly good value Cooler.

          Seriously, think of it more like this.

          You were getting something almost for nothing...

          Now you have to pay half the cost of a cup of coffee for it every 30 days or so.

          Is that really "expensive"..
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          • Profile picture of the author JensSteyaert
            That's interesting. I can see a lot of free Wso's popping up from people trying to build their list...

            I'm also in favour of quality control for the Wso section. Not everybody might like that though
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            • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
              Originally Posted by JensSteyaert View Post

              That's interesting. I can see a lot of free Wso's popping up from people trying to build their list...

              I'm also in favour of quality control for the Wso section. Not everybody might like that though
              Quality control? According to whom? I've bought several WSOs that I thought were pretty lame. But the threads were loaded with praise. We're all big kids here. I say leave the 'quality cops' out of the equation.
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              • Profile picture of the author edlewis
                LOL @ people who think dropping the price from $40 to $20 is going to start an uncontrollable flood of low quality WSO's!

                As if that $20 is a huge barrier of entry that can't be overcome. Come on now…:rolleyes:

                It's almost as funny as those who want "WSO Cops" or some sort of "WSO Task Force" to be established. This has been suggested for years…and will never happen because it's just not feasible and because of all sorts of other ramifications that most people don't even think of - like the legal ones that Paul Myers mentioned in another thread.

                There are good WSO's…bad ones…and average ones. And opinions on that differ from person to person. It's annoying when I see members of this forum lump every single offer in the WSO Forum into one category….as if they've been thru every WSO and can make a judgement on all of them.
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        • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
          Originally Posted by cooler1 View Post

          I agree that it isn't difficult to cover a $20 fee yearly, but the point is that the War Room membership was great value and has now been changed to be a lot more expensive. If your going to use that arguement you could say that a $47 or $57 yearly fee can be covered easily also. Where do you draw the line.
          You draw the line at what the market is willing to pay. If they see a steep decline in signups, then they review and adjust. If people still understand its value and are willing to ante up, it stays and those who aren't willing don't get access - gotta love capitalism
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    • Profile picture of the author M3C
      Originally Posted by cooler1 View Post

      To go from War Room membership being $40 lifetime to $200 a decade seems OTT. Doesn't sound good at all.
      And $400 for every 20 years as well.

      It's disgusting..

      That's a buck and change a month -

      Who has that kind of money kicking around...
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    1. It doesn't matter if there are 1,000 bad WSOs and 1 good one - we're all responsible for what we buy and I've bought many WSOs and never bought a single stinker. I may have purchased 1-2 where I already knew the info, but that's rare. Usually I gain something from it. If you're worried about low quality so much, learn to be a better buyer (I'm not being snarky - I'm being serious - educate yourself about it).

    2. Just about every hyped up spammy type of shady marketer I've seen had PLENTY of money from their efforts to pay $20, $40 or $400 if that were the asking price. They would pay it because they know copywriting, they have cash for graphics, and they can easillllly get their cash back anyway.

    The lowered price helps everyone save money (that's a good thing). It also helps sellers be able to offer lower price points. I know many new PLR sellers for example, who would love to price a pack at $7 but when you're charging $40 per listing, fee you wonder if you'll break even. (hit or miss - you never know when you're new).

    Raising prices does nothing but suck more money out of your pocket.
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    • Profile picture of the author M3C
      Originally Posted by TiffanyLambert View Post

      1

      2. Just about every hyped up spammy type of shady marketer I've seen had PLENTY of money from their efforts to pay $20, $40 or $400 if that were the asking price. They would pay it because they know copywriting, they have cash for graphics, and they can easillllly get their cash back anyway.

      .
      The point is Tiffany, if you're supposedly earning $10k a day, then you won't have a single issue stumping up $500 to place your WSO.... There's just a metric ton of people re-purposing so so material who can't afford to move out of Mom's bedroom, making absurd financial claims because for $20, they can make $500 back.

      It's self perpetuating some awful tat.

      I would personally suggest "make money" WSO's be treated differently to "let me design your logo" WSO etc.
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      • Profile picture of the author MarkWrites
        Originally Posted by M3C View Post

        I would personally suggest "make money" WSO's be treated differently to "let me design your logo" WSO etc.
        Along these lines (just a thought), maybe divide the WSO section up by category. Have MMO WSO's, Content WSO's, and another type separate from each other. It'd not only make it easier to find the type of WSO you're looking for but it would also leave your WSO on the front category page a little longer.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ged3
      I agree with Tiffany,

      I think that bringing the price down actually helps everyone who wants the chance to produce something and sell it.

      The quality will not necessarily be reduced, in fact we could see a lot of good quality WSOs from people who were deterred from paying $40, but who still had excellent products to sell.

      Ged
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    • Profile picture of the author MarkWrites
      Originally Posted by TiffanyLambert View Post

      2. Just about every hyped up spammy type of shady marketer I've seen had PLENTY of money from their efforts to pay $20, $40 or $400 if that were the asking price. They would pay it because they know copywriting, they have cash for graphics, and they can easillllly get their cash back anyway.
      I'll agree with Tiffany here. The lowering of the fee to $20 can help someone starting out enter the fray and at the same time it wasn't like the $40 was keeping the shady marketers out.
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  • Profile picture of the author AmericanMuscleTA
    They should make it $97. Really weed out the serious from the unserious.
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    I'm surprised at the backlash that usually occurs any time "quality control" is mentioned.

    There would be absolutely nothing bad about implementing some form of quality control. It would weed out the bad actors ("make $5000 tomorrow by pushing a button!"), reward sellers who offer quality products & services, and ensure offers stay on page one longer (fewer offers since the bad actors are eliminated).

    Now, all that said, I DO AGREE that there are ramifications (legal, logistical, and financial) that make such a system difficult to implement.

    What should ultimately be implemented is an eBay-style ratings system where only confirmed buyers of a WSO can leave feedback. With such a system, you immediately weed out most of the "reviews" from people who are obviously friends/acquaintances of the seller. It also keeps WF off the hook since it it not WF providing the feedback.

    Would it be perfect? Nope. However, it would be better than no quality control at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author 4DayWeekend
      I'm happy the price has dropped to $20. I always thought $20 was a perfect price point in the past.

      Yes, there might be a few more people selling WSOs, but realistically, is a $20 saving going to bring thousands of extra WSO sellers out of the woodwork? I doubt it. And even if it does, sellers who bring lousy copy, design and products will fail to recoup their cash and fall away.

      As a copywriter, more people putting WSOs out potentially increases the amount of people who want to use my service. Money spent on service providers will be reinvested on other services and many people will see an increase in their bottom line.

      At least that's what I'm hoping
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    • Profile picture of the author JensSteyaert
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      I'm surprised at the backlash that usually occurs any time "quality control" is mentioned.

      There would be absolutely nothing bad about implementing some form of quality control. It would weed out the bad actors ("make $5000 tomorrow by pushing a button!"), reward sellers who offer quality products & services, and ensure offers stay on page one longer (fewer offers since the bad actors are eliminated).

      Now, all that said, I DO AGREE that there are ramifications (legal, logistical, and financial) that make such a system difficult to implement.

      What should ultimately be implemented is an eBay-style ratings system where only confirmed buyers of a WSO can leave feedback. With such a system, you immediately weed out most of the "reviews" from people who are obviously friends/acquaintances of the seller. It also keeps WF off the hook since it it not WF providing the feedback.

      Would it be perfect? Nope. However, it would be better than no quality control at all.
      I agree, there are plenty of Wso's with unrealistic figures in the title and the sales letter. Perhaps a mandatory earnings disclaimer in the sales thread?

      Also there's a lot of mention of good reviews for crap Wso's, but most of us know these are just affiliates who will write anything to earn commissions.

      I agree though that it's very hard to make changes to the Wso section, and quality control is nearly impossible, but small changes can be made, something the new owners have to think about
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    • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      I'm surprised at the backlash that usually occurs any time "quality control" is mentioned.

      There would be absolutely nothing bad about implementing some form of quality control. It would weed out the bad actors ("make $5000 tomorrow by pushing a button!"), reward sellers who offer quality products & services, and ensure offers stay on page one longer (fewer offers since the bad actors are eliminated).

      Now, all that said, I DO AGREE that there are ramifications (legal, logistical, and financial) that make such a system difficult to implement.

      What should ultimately be implemented is an eBay-style ratings system where only confirmed buyers of a WSO can leave feedback. With such a system, you immediately weed out most of the "reviews" from people who are obviously friends/acquaintances of the seller. It also keeps WF off the hook since it it not WF providing the feedback.

      Would it be perfect? Nope. However, it would be better than no quality control at all.
      There are people here that use negative reviews and other sneaky sabotage as a marketing strategy against competitors. How would you deal with that?

      Members here are over 18, old enough to vote in most states. I look at some of the promises on the banners here and have to laugh at the crazy claims.

      I've been around a while and still occasionally bite on nonsense claims. I call it the stupid tax. Again, it's buyer beware. Most sellers have a refund policy. There's the safety valve. There is NO fair system for policing quality and it's certainly not the responsibility of the forum.
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    • Profile picture of the author brutecky
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      There would be absolutely nothing bad about implementing some form of quality control. It would weed out the bad actors ("make $5000 tomorrow by pushing a button!"), reward sellers who offer quality products & services, and ensure offers stay on page one longer (fewer offers since the bad actors are eliminated).
      Im surprised that people keep yapping about 'quality control' for WSO's when there is already quality control for them! Hello! This is a forum. If a WSO is garbage , 1) Put in for a refund and 2) Come back to the forum and post it. Just like most things on this forum, the members are the moderators / quality control.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
        Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

        Im surprised that people keep yapping about 'quality control' for WSO's when there is already quality control for them! Hello! This is a forum. If a WSO is garbage , 1) Put in for a refund and 2) Come back to the forum and post it. Just like most things on this forum, the members are the moderators / quality control.

        Even with people leaving bad reviews, there are even more who will still buy.... People really need to use due diligence, it is the only "quality control" that works.

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      • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
        Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

        Im surprised that people keep yapping about 'quality control' for WSO's when there is already quality control for them! Hello! This is a forum. If a WSO is garbage , 1) Put in for a refund and 2) Come back to the forum and post it. Just like most things on this forum, the members are the moderators / quality control.
        But the current system doesn't address a full first two pages of a seller's cronies shilling for as product. Implementing a system where only verified buyers could leave feedback wouldn't be a bad thing. It would ensure that the people leaving feedback actually bought the product.

        Like I said. Perfect? No. Helpful nonetheless.
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        • Originally Posted by M3C View Post

          And $400 for every 20 years as well.

          It's disgusting..

          That's a buck and change a month -

          Who has that kind of money kicking around...
          Considering what people waste money on each day it's nothing. $20 a month I could see the concern, but $20 a year isn't that much.

          Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

          But the current system doesn't address a full first two pages of a seller's cronies shilling for as product. Implementing a system where only verified buyers could leave feedback wouldn't be a bad thing. It would ensure that the people leaving feedback actually bought the product.

          Like I said. Perfect? No. Helpful nonetheless.
          That still won't stop shilling though. They can still say "hey shilling buddy buy my WSO & leave a review. On the back end I'll give you back your money" It won't be a "refund" through W+/JVZoo so that the system doesn't mark it as the person received a refund. Just a separate payment via PayPal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    A lot of people are complaining about the $20 drop.

    I think it's beautiful.

    WarriorForum.com is supposed to be a place where the little guy can get their start right?

    And it's true you MIGHT get 50% less promotion. But it's 50% the cost, so no big problem.

    Overall, I'm VERY PLEASED with the change.

    And shame on ANYONE who releases low quality crap, regardless of how much it costs.

    Just my $.02
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    • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
      Originally Posted by Sarevok View Post

      And it's true you MIGHT get 50% less promotion. But it's 50% the cost, so no big problem.
      To be honest, I don't really know how I feel about the price change yet - haven't given it a ton of thought. However, assuming it's an even 50/50 trade-off might be a bad assumption.

      If it is, in fact, an even trade-off, I would agree that it's really "no harm, no foul". If it's more like 70/30, it's more of an issue. We simply won't know until we start looking at our data. I'l reserve judgement until then.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
    I fear if WSO becomes $20 junk product will become the order of the day.

    Our WSO will be pushed of the first page more quickly.

    Aside that, the partnership is a kabooom and welcomed idea!
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  • Profile picture of the author morg2k2
    Well sincerely i believe the approach should not be the Low Cost WSO, that will not bring quality but instead will bring scammers for the WSO game , in top of that all the WSO will go to page 2 or 3 in a couple of hours...

    The approach should be the opposite, i would recommend an increase of the WSO price, for example the $97 per WSO that would bring quality WSO´s , in the end people that are not afraid to pay this Premium price, because they know that their product is very good and it also improve the time of the WSO being in the page 1, so in terms of advertisment Exposure would increase deeply.
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  • Profile picture of the author helpinghand182
    So it's good news for those who already are War Room members and less so for the rest? Wonder what other changes we can expect! Looking forward to seeing what happens with the site!
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  • Profile picture of the author Trent Pill
    So war room members now get life time war room accounts, but anyone signing up in the future must pay $20 a year?
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by Trent Pill View Post

      So war room members now get life time war room accounts, but anyone signing up in the future must pay $20 a year?
      $20/yr is bupkus compared to the level of education
      and products that are found for free in the War Room.

      If investing $20 is stopping someone from becoming a member
      they should think long and hard about two things... 1. the quality
      of decision making that lead them to the point where $20 is a problem
      and 2. Will that level of thinking and decision making bode well for them
      in the future?

      It should be $20/month
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    • Profile picture of the author spearce000
      Originally Posted by Trent Pill View Post

      So war room members now get life time war room accounts, but anyone signing up in the future must pay $20 a year?
      Yep, that's about the size of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    Q for Alaister: Will freelance be adding or raising any other fees related to membership/wso's here, during this upcoming year ahead? Any percentage add-on fees or other costs of any kind? Or advertising or change to the look/feel of the site?

    I'm asking, because I've seen that type of issue when other companies get bought out, is new fees, advertisements, other things (like raising the war room from one-time to a subscription model). Any other hikes/increases/changes coming this year?

    It sounds like you're updating the backend server, for speed, which is good. What I'm more interested/concerned about, is all the other changes coming.

    What's in the works, that you can tell us about, honestly? One thing I've always liked about Allen & Paul is transparency, honesty, which is why I like being here.


    thx,
    ken
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    I agree travlinguy. It's not the forum's job to police every offer. That's why a feedback rating system for confirmed buyers is the best option. Will some buyers take advantage of it? Sure. However, it works for amazon. It works for eBay. It works for THOUSANDS of other merchants and platforms. WF is no different.

    Refunds are not a safety valve. Just ask the people who got taken on the X-factor stuff and countless other sellers who took the money and drained their paypal accts.
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    • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      I agree travlinguy. It's not the forum's job to police every offer. That's why a feedback rating system for confirmed buyers is the best option. Will some buyers take advantage of it? Sure. However, it works for amazon. It works for eBay. It works for THOUSANDS of other merchants and platforms. WF is no different.

      Refunds are not a safety valve. Just ask the people who got taken on the X-factor stuff and countless other sellers who took the money and drained their paypal accts.
      I don't agree that Amazon and eBay's review and feedback systems work well at all for the reason I've already mentioned. It's easy to game Amazon's review system for both physical products and ebooks. People get their friends to fake reviews and they can easily band together to sink a product with negatives.

      Amazon doesn't have the time nor are they inclined to do much about it. eBay is a little better but they've gone too far in favor of the buyer. I've refunded eBay buyers I knew were lying for fear of a negative review. It's lopsided and eBay takes the stance that that buyers rule.

      This is a much smaller community and the complaints of "unfairness," surrounding legit or bogus reviews would be more than the mods could handle.

      As for buyers here having their Paypal accounts gutted, that's an entirely different situation than buying a crappy product. That's blatant fraud and theft. There are protocols for that well outside of the forum and the mods.
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      • Profile picture of the author M3C
        Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

        I don't agree that Amazon and eBay's review and feedback systems work well at all for the reason I've already mentioned. It's easy to game Amazon's review system for both physical products and ebooks. People get their friends to fake reviews and they can easily band together to sink a product with negatives.

        Amazon doesn't have the time nor are they inclined to do much about it. eBay is a little better but they've gone too far in favor of the buyer. I've refunded eBay buyers I knew were lying for fear of a negative review. It's lopsided and eBay takes the stance that that buyers rule.

        This is a much smaller community and the complaints of "unfairness," surrounding legit or bogus reviews would be more than the mods could handle.

        As for buyers here having their Paypal accounts gutted, that's an entirely different situation than buying a crappy product. That's blatant fraud and theft. There are protocols for that well outside of the forum and the mods.
        All of which true.

        However, lets look at a real world indicator.

        Generally speaking if a bunch of guys with 20 posts each, and 2 thanks come together to review a product, the algo shouldn't give it a passing notice.

        If a number of long term members with solid feedback do so, it would carry more weight.

        It's not perfect.

        Little is but it's probably better than nothing.
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  • Profile picture of the author beasty513
    For MMO WSO's

    I would raise the price well over $50

    for posting a WSO thread.


    If you are doing as well as your say

    you are on the sales page then that shouldn't be a problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    Beasty....

    Not everyone makes earnings claims.
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  • Profile picture of the author LastWarrior
    I'm not going to take the time to read through the whole thread, but read maybe half a dozen. I am not a fan at all for lowering a WSO to $20. $40 is peanuts considering the amount of views and financial returns it may bring with the right offer. I believe it will get less exposure from more wso's coming in as well as more threads being bumped. I also believe those who didn't want to start a wso because of $40, should not have their wso anyway. I don't consider it favor to drop the price.

    Now I'm going to have to spend more time separating the wheat from the chaff, as I sincerely believe more people are going to take a "gamble", roll the dice and see how it goes for $20. I have not yet had my own WSO and dropping it to $20 doesn't make me feel any better when I do. (unless of course my wso is a flop LOL!)

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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    Travlinguy...

    You have to be a confirmed buyer to leave feedback on eBay. Doing the same here prevents a seller from getting his affiliates to come into the thread with all sorts of glowing reviews that are clearly bogus. I see it all the time.

    Like I said, it's not perfect but I'd much prefer that over what we have today - affiliates and friends posting "reviews".

    When all is said and done, if a seller is providing quality offerings, the good reviews will far outweigh the ones that were blackmail. If the system didn't work for the majority, other online retailers wouldn't use it.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      I think $20 will really hurt the quality of WSOs. There is already enough clutter as it is. This low barrier to entry will bring the ' bottom feeders' out in the droves
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
      I don't understand how lowering the price of the WSO will lower the quality of the WSO.... THERE IS ALREADY PLENTY OF LOW QUALITY WSO's, ALOT OF THEM EVEN GET "WSO OR PRODUCT OF THE DAY"!!!!!

      I understand people want to have more time on the first page, but this isn't Burger King, you can't have it your way. Give the little guy who can't afford to pay for shiny graphics to mask rehashed products, a chance

      The WSO section is already saturated with crap that does not work, so what's a few more? People who run successful WSO's are people who have a list who can drive their own traffic, and have affiliate's drive traffic also... If you rely on WSO section traffic only, you set yourself up for disappointment. Raising the WSO fee DOES NOT PREVENT A DAMN THING. All it does is discourage the little guy from launching his own product. Scammers would gladly pay 100, 200$ fee, so a $40 fee means nothing

      It gets the small guy with great ideas, to finally put out his first product. There is a reason why they say 1% of the top IM'er's make 99% of the money, and it's because they have THEIR OWN PRODUCTS!!


      On top of paying for graphics, copy, and time, the $40 fee was a hurdle for many people. I don't understand why people are so worried about the quality of WSO's when the WSO section already has plenty crap being launched on a daily basis.
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  • I did a little test run, and my results are:

    WSO went Live on Page 1: Wed April 16, 2014 1:10 AM
    WSO disappeared to Page 2: Wed April 16, 2014 11:30 AM

    There are 55 spots on page 1.

    WSO's are currently racing from the top spot to almost the middle of page 2 in approximately 10 hours and 20 minutes.
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    "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
    "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    A solution to that might be to break the WSO forum into multiple sections - services, Ebooks, websites, etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author JacobS
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      A solution to that might be to break the WSO forum into multiple sections - services, Ebooks, websites, etc.
      If it were set up like this then I would have probably bought so many more WSO's when I was starting out. I'm in the mobile niche, so most WSO's didn't apply to me and I basically just bought WillR's excellent templates and went to work. I heard about those through word of mouth, so it didn't really matter if he was on the front page or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aehs01
    So I spent $150 on a sales page and $40 for my latest WSO thread. I earned about $210 in sales on my WSO and paid out over $400 to affiliates. I figured it was not worht bumping for $40 but if I make even 3 sales with a bump I'll be in profit and will have built my list on top of that.

    I think it's a toss up, as we may see more fewer quality products but personally as a product creator I am more willing to pay $20 for a bump if I only need a few low cost product sales to make a profit.
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    • Originally Posted by Aehs01 View Post

      So I spent $150 on a sales page and $40 for my latest WSO thread. I earned about $210 in sales on my WSO and paid out over $400 to affiliates. I figured it was not worht bumping for $40 but if I make even 3 sales with a bump I'll be in profit and will have built my list on top of that.

      I think it's a toss up, as we may see more fewer quality products but personally as a product creator I am more willing to pay $20 for a bump if I only need a few low cost product sales to make a profit.
      Maybe listing should cost more and bumps less, just thinking out loud here!
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  • Profile picture of the author SolFood
    Lots of opinions and controversy about new prices and value. I wonder if this mirrors the reactions years ago?
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
    I'm not sure I've ever seen people complain that a price is too LOW.

    Franky, I'm in favor of the WSO price drop.

    Here's why...

    1) IT'S A PRICE DROP! (If price drops are now a BAD thing, then WalMart's going to be in big trouble.)

    2) If you get less front page time as a result, it's no big deal. You can now afford to bump twice as often. However, the reduced price also lowers the barrior of entry. This is especially important for beginning Internet marketers and those selling low cost products.

    3) It allows you to test WSOs inexpensively. If it's a hit, you can keep bumping. If it fails, you're out very little. (If your WSO fails, would you rather have paid $40... or only $20?)

    4) Affiliates don't care what page a WSO is on -- they're just going to link to it in their email.

    5) Many of the problems associated with "spammy" WSOs could be instantly fixed by requiring the sales copy to be compliant with the new FTC rules. Many are NOT.

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author louiem
      How about increasing the cost of bumping a thread? Make it something like $50-100.

      I think that $20 is a good price point for starting a WSO thread. It gives newcomers like me the extra motivation to start creating and selling digital products.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      Travlinguy...

      You have to be a confirmed buyer to leave feedback on eBay. Doing the same here prevents a seller from getting his affiliates to come into the thread with all sorts of glowing reviews that are clearly bogus. I see it all the time.
      It's still gamed though. There are buyers clubs, at least with the books, whose sole purpose is to provide reviews for each other.
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        It's still gamed though. There are buyers clubs, at least with the books, whose sole purpose is to provide reviews for each other.
        True. And with books a buyer can drop a nasty review and then get a refund. The WSO quality control issue comes up from time to time and we've always been told it's not going to happen. Now, under new management we can't be sure. But I'd bet the new guys have monitored this place and have worked closely with Allen. The system isn't perfect but it works. IMO changing it would just invite trouble.
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        • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
          Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

          True. And with books a buyer can drop a nasty review and then get a refund.
          You are stating the exception as if it would be the norm and you are singling out one aspect of WSOs (ebooks). There are many other offers that are not ebooks.
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      • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        It's still gamed though. There are buyers clubs, at least with the books, whose sole purpose is to provide reviews for each other.
        Of course it will be gamed. Everything is. However, ratings for EVERYONE will be gamed to a degree.

        If you line up 10 sellers and 8 of them have 98% (heck, even 80%) customer sat ratings and the other two have 50%, the problem isn't "gaming". If you believe that gaming is the problem, you are being intentionally obtuse.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

          Of course it will be gamed. Everything is. However, ratings for EVERYONE will be gamed to a degree.

          If you line up 10 sellers and 8 of them have 98% (heck, even 80%) customer sat ratings and the other two have 50%, the problem isn't "gaming". If you believe that gaming is the problem, you are being intentionally obtuse.
          You exampled another system, I merely pointed out the side of the story that you conveniently left out. Gaming the system is a problem because there are many who believe the system can't be gamed.

          Your example is irrelevant. If you have one seller and 75% of his reviews are bogus, gaming is a problem. Making up numbers is easy, but not necessarily useful.

          If I'm being intentionally obtuse, you're being intentionally insulting. I would advise you against that.
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          • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            You exampled another system, I merely pointed out the side of the story that you conveniently left out. Gaming the system is a problem because there are many who believe the system can't be gamed.

            Your example is irrelevant. If you have one seller and 75% of his reviews are bogus, gaming is a problem. Making up numbers is easy, but not necessarily useful.

            If I'm being intentionally obtuse, you're being intentionally insulting. I would advise you against that.
            Dennis, ultimately, I have to wonder where exactly the resistance to buyer feedback is really coming from. A good seller with a good reputation for providing quality services and products should be all for a ratings system because it gives the quality seller an advantage over the competition.

            Too many sellers hide behind "buyer beware". They post stuff like "Make $5000 this afternoon with no work!" and then blame the newbie when he falls for it. Really? Nice way to treat potential customers....

            A ratings system would eliminate that issue.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
              Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

              Dennis, ultimately, I have to wonder where exactly the resistance to buyer feedback is really coming from. A good seller with a good reputation for providing quality services and products should be all for a ratings system because it gives the quality seller an advantage over the competition.

              Too many sellers hide behind "buyer beware". They post stuff like "Make $5000 this afternoon with no work!" and then blame the newbie when he falls for it. Really? Nice way to treat potential customers....

              A ratings system would eliminate that issue.
              If you're assuming I'm against a rating system you're laboring under a false assumption. I merely pointed out the other side to your comment. Any productive discussion should include all the facts, not just the ones that favor your position.

              I'm also on the record with the new owners as favoring eliminating income claims.
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    • Profile picture of the author BradCarroll
      Originally Posted by Johnny12345 View Post

      I'm not sure I've ever seen people complain that a price is too LOW.
      ...

      3) It allows you to test WSOs inexpensively. If it's a hit, you can keep bumping. If it fails, you're out very little. (If your WSO fails, would you rather have paid $40... or only $20?)


      John
      This is what I'm most excited about. I have a couple of low-priced products that I can test every day now, which unfortunately wasn't always feasable at $40.
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  • Profile picture of the author barbling
    NO.

    The solution to that is to

    BUILD YOUR OWN AUTHORITY and buyers list

    so that when you do launch (like I did just now), your previous buyers know about it and flock to purchase.

    Never ever count on 'being on the front page' as the way to drive traffic.

    Instead, build your brand, grow your affiliate network, and become THE product creator people KNOW deliver quality.

    Just sayin'.....
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    The number of WSO's are going to go up. That is for sure.

    I think that the article section should be re-opened too.
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  • Profile picture of the author inyourway
    I bet "unserious" and "no good" wsos will be listed, probably even more when the fee is less, compared to the fee we're used to.. With that said, the serious and good wsos will still be on top, because "unserious" wsos won't be bumped as often as the serious will.

    That's my 2 cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
    The reason they weren't moderated based on any quality control was because that would be seen as the WF endorsing offers.

    If quality control was implied then people would blame the forum for any problems they had.

    As to the price drop, I can't see it can cause a drop in quality when the price rise didn't cause an increase in quality. The drop in quality was directly caused by the affiliate systems making their way into the WSO section. If you want quality, return it to what it was - members selling to members. If you want the very obvious culprit for the loss in quality then let's not kid ourselves, it was the affiliate platforms.
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  • Profile picture of the author .X.
    Since we're griping . . . ;-)

    What I'd like is the remembrance of what a WSO
    was once all about.

    Back in the day . . .

    Products weren't created specifically for, and
    destined to die, a WSO.

    Those who sold products were generally well-known
    to the community.

    A WSO was a product that already existed, and
    was being sold successfully - usually, via other
    channels.

    So my top quality product sold at $197 might
    later be offered as a "thank you" to this community
    for $50.

    That was the original spirit - a WSO wasn't a
    means of making a living - it was a way of sharing
    and giving back to this community.

    The fact so many offers are now of questionable
    quality is the price of growth.

    In a culture that values more cheap garbage
    for the buck (see the success of Wal-mart
    and Chinese imports) the evolution of the WSO
    should come as no surprise and an extra $20
    isn't going to change that - because as-is, or
    as-was, top quality offers weren't ruling the
    day anyhow.

    And while the quality of the content has gone
    down, so too has the quality of the members
    and those buying. I know, I know, that's going
    to upset some but it's the damned truth.

    Remember when access to the WF required
    that you'd purchased one of Allen's products?

    Now many Warriors seem to do nothing but sell
    and buy. And I guess that's fine but it is what
    it is.

    Someone suggested creating categories and
    I like that idea. Short of incorporating a more
    complex algorithm based system that rewards
    sales and quality, that would be a benefit to
    both buyers and sellers.

    X
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    Dennis...

    I'm speaking in generalities, which is why I didn't say, "Dennis, ultimately, I have to wonder where exactly your resistance to buyer feedback is really coming from."

    We can go round and round in circles but the fact remains:

    Most serious eCommerce sites use some form of feedback system. If the systems didn't work, they wouldn't use them.

    Now, with all that said, it really doesn't matter because it will ultimately be up to new ownership.
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    • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
      What you are forgetting is the WSO section is NOT an ecommerce site. It is an advertising medium only.

      It would be impossible to have any kind of feedback system at all that even came close to working unless the forum handled all payment and fulfillment of all WSO's. Not likely to see that happen.


      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post


      We can go round and round in circles but the fact remains:

      Most serious eCommerce sites use some form of feedback system. If the systems didn't work, they wouldn't use them.

      Now, with all that said, it really doesn't matter because it will ultimately be up to new ownership.
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      • Profile picture of the author coolfx35
        I signed up for the WSO for $20, but i still can't access to the private threads? any ideas?
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        • Profile picture of the author It Is Me
          Originally Posted by coolfx35 View Post

          I signed up for the WSO for $20, but i still can't access to the private threads? any ideas?
          Are you looking for the War Room Private Forum? Here it is http://www.warriorforum.com/war-room...e-discussions/
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      • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
        Originally Posted by Johnny Slater View Post

        It would be impossible to have any kind of feedback system at all that even came close to working unless the forum handled all payment and fulfillment of all WSO's. Not likely to see that happen.
        I agree. That's why I said "ultimately", that's what should happen.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

      Most serious eCommerce sites use some form of feedback system. If the systems didn't work, they wouldn't use them.
      As Johnny pointed out, the WSO section is an advertising platform. It's more akin to Craig's List than Ebay. As far as I know Craig's List doesn't have a rating system.

      Again, I'm not saying I'm against it, but how would it work?
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      • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        As Johnny pointed out, the WSO section is an advertising platform. It's more akin to Craig's List than Ebay. As far as I know Craig's List doesn't have a rating system.

        Again, I'm not saying I'm against it, but how would it work?
        For it to work, WF would probably have to handle payments. It's definitely not something that's going to happen next week. It's just something that I'd like to see happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author FreddieMixell
    I'm sad that this has happened because I'm afraid this is going to add tons of new spammers to the Warrior Forum. This reminds me of Flippa.com lowering the listing price, now more spammers are scamming people out of hard earned money everywhere.
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  • Profile picture of the author service provider
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Arnold,
      That would be a "point gun at own foot and shoot" scenario for Freelancer if they required that you had to show that you've actually sold the product outside the forum.
      I didn't say I believed it was the right idea. Just that it's one way to (at least mostly) accomplish what a lot of people say needs doing: Getting rid of what they think are junk offers.

      I look at those in much the same way as I would shopping for any tool. Get what you need to do the job right, as often as you'll need to do the job. If it's something you rely on for your income on a regular basis, you buy the best you can get.

      That does not mean I want to tell Walmart they can't sell cheap tools. For some people, they're enough.

      If you buy junk, you usually know in advance that you're buying junk. If the best you can afford is junk, you use it carefully, and you stay aware that it's a temporary fix at best.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    WSOs used to be $20. I remember sending Allen a message asking him to raise the price to $100. Eventually, he made them $40. It had a short lived effect. The volume of new listings eventually went back to where it was. However, I am willing to bet there were less bumps.

    If lowering the price means more bumps and that means more money for the site, then I am all for it. It would be ironic to own a site that intends to teach people how to make a killing online and that site not be doing its best to make a killing online.
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    • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
      As far as bumps are concerned I will know shortly what effect on them comes from the new pricing. I've been tracking WSO's and bumps for quite a while and I will be able to see if the amount of bumps goes up, down, or stays the same.

      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      WSOs used to be $20. I remember sending Allen a message asking him to raise the price to $100. Eventually, he made them $40. It had a short lived effect. The volume of new listings eventually went back to where it was. However, I am willing to bet there were less bumps.

      If lowering the price means more bumps and that means more money for the site, then I am all for it. It would be ironic to own a site that intends to teach people how to make a killing online and that site not be doing its best to make a killing online.
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  • Wow thats a great news
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
    My 2c then I'll shut up about it lol.

    What brought in all the scam offers and devalued the WSO section was opening it to the larger internet, by allowing the affiliate platforms in.

    What we now see are a load of offers that have no real value but huge affiliate promotions backing them, and the real members avoiding the WSO section.

    We were a bastion against that crap. An isolated community preaching about integrity amidst a sea of spamming rubbish, and did as much as a group of marketers could do to try and uphold those values. But we let them all in, and we now have the current situation in the WSO section.

    I do see this would annoy the big affiliate guys, though largely they won't be annoyed as they won't see what I'm saying, as they have no interest in the forum, just the WSO section that they have polluted.

    I also get that this opinion is not going to be popular. But if you want to restore the integrity of the WSO section, remove the affiliate incentive to provide false endorsements and promotion. Return it to a forum for warriors making a special offer, and the credibility will follow.

    (Puts away soap box)
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
    However, I am willing to bet there were less bumps.
    I agree 100% with this... after spending money to get a product going, if you didn't break even or make plenty of money, a $40 will get many to give up on the launch.

    It would be ironic to own a site that intends to teach people how to make a killing online and that site not be doing its best to make a killing online.
    I don't think the WF teaches anybody how to make money, it is just a forum where other people show others how to make money. The WF makes it's money from advertising, which is what the WSO section is. Once people understand that it's just advertising space, the less upset they will be.

    Will the WF make more money from lowering the WSO fee? I would hope so, after paying 3.2 million according to Tech Crunch Freelancer.com Pays $3.2M To Buy Digital Marketing Marketplace, Warrior Forum | TechCrunch
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  • Profile picture of the author DaleTheDog
    I am pretty concerned about the price drop. Cutting the price in half will make it easier for anyone to post lower quality material.
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  • Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    Arnold,I didn't say I believed it was the right idea. Just that it's one way to (at least mostly) accomplish what a lot of people say needs doing: Getting rid of what they think are junk offers.
    I understood that you didn't necessarily believe it was the right idea.

    Going back to a "True WSO" system, would for the most part eliminate a large chunk of questionable, quickly slapped together made for WSO type products, but I also understand that by allowing said products to be posted, the forum is not biting the hands that feed it.

    I was mainly trying to state that there's little point to keeping the rule, "(This is not a "buy my product" forum, it is a "Special Offer" forum)" if no one is following it, and if the forum profits from warriors not following it.
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    one thing that I think would help, is the ability to rate on a 5-star rating system from buyers only, for anything being sold, like amazon 'verified purchase', to help... and better filtering of who gets allowed to sell in the first place. the few wsos I've bought have been good, but I've only bought a few with dozens of trusted testimonials and big sales, long after they get launched, to carefully make sure i don't waste money. i'd buy more if there was some way to figure out what's trustworthy, there's some gems in there amidst everything else. i have a ton of money to spend, but i do so carefully like i only buy 4 1/2 star + with 100fbs on amazon, or similar w/ebay, to check it's worth buying first
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
      one thing that I think would help, is the ability to rate on a 5-star rating system from buyers only, for anything being sold, like amazon 'verified purchase', to help
      For something like that to happen, they will need access to your Paypal. If they did something like that, they might as well offer an affiliate platform, just like wsoplus and jvzoo.

      Guess we just have to wait and see what they have planned, offering an affiliate platform is very possible, along with a rating system. They have the resources to do it, and can't imagine them leaving money leak out the WF to 3rd party affiliate platforms
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  • Profile picture of the author Katie Rich
    The Forum has been purchased by a company, with shareholders. They are hardly going to want to see a decrease in the amount of WSO's being posted.

    Each one posted will make another $20 for the company, so the more the merrier. Their shareholders really won't give a hoot whether the WSO is great, good, bad or crap, they just want their dividend payout at the end of the term.

    It'll stay much like it is now. Never mind the quality, feel the width!
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  • Profile picture of the author Alice12345
    Its all about quality product that REALLY works from the vendor. Not PLR and reskin Junk.

    Value and real experience is the real fact here. But if the method is making money, why dont everyone keep it for themselves?
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  • Profile picture of the author SolutionSecrets
    Personally I think $20 is a good start. People say Warriorforum is a place to get started in Internet Marketing Journey.

    For WSO to be increased to $50 or more, I would rather go clickbank as they filter way better.
    I would just come to WF just see "whats new" or "Hot Topic"

    WF is mainly a place where all IM-ers gathering, sharing info and more..
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  • Profile picture of the author DotComBum
    $20 or $40, it really make not much differences, it's not like $100 and $20, It would be best that the price stay at $40 and $40 for bump, with a $20 price tag, there will be more works for the moderators.
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    • Profile picture of the author SolutionSecrets
      Originally Posted by DotComBum View Post

      $20 or $40, it really make not much differences, it's not like $100 and $20, It would be best that the price stay at $40 and $40 for bump, with a $20 price tag, there will be more works for the moderators.
      agreed with DotComBum
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  • Profile picture of the author xlfutur1
    We have all purchased WSOs that have not lived up to their promises and were probably a waste of money. On the flipside, we have all purchased WSOs that have made us a ton of money based on what we learned from them.

    When you consider a 4-year college degree costs upwards of $100K today, buying $10 WSOs (good or bad) is a pretty decent value if you can learn just ONE thing that will help you make more money (or help you avoid mistakes that waste money) in the future.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by xlfutur1 View Post

      We have all purchased WSOs that have not lived up to their promises and were probably a waste of money. On the flipside, we have all purchased WSOs that have made us a ton of money based on what we learned from them.

      When you consider a 4-year college degree costs upwards of $100K today, buying $10 WSOs (good or bad) is a pretty decent value if you can learn just ONE thing that will help you make more money (or help you avoid mistakes that waste money) in the future.
      That's always been my take on it. If I can get one nugget I didn't know that helps me, I can use that nugget to make more money than the WSO cost. Everything beyond that is profit.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    There's a lot of ratings discussion going on...

    Here's my two cents.

    If you want it to be "fair", here's the only way to do it.

    Make it so *ONLY* proven BUYERS can leave reviews.

    This means no more review copies.

    You want a 100% fair review system, that's the only way to do it.

    My vote? Keep it the way it is. (I think review copies have their place, but my dominant "left brain" keeps telling me that it's not a 100% fair system if they exist. Because some people are just largely popular and have raving fans DYING to review their product).

    :]

    Just my $.02

    PS:

    Another thing to do, would have like a "Green Badge" or something that verifies the REAL buyer reviews from other reviews. (Kind of like what Amazon does).

    PPS:

    I think we're over thinking this. Now I'm over thinking as a result of your over analysis.

    Also, if you were to implement these changes, it would mean drastically changing the nature of the warriorforum.

    PPPS:

    Okay, sorry for the rant, but a lot of the stuff people are proposing just wouldn't work. (My proposals included).

    Warriorforum.com would have to be more tightly knit with warriorplus for that to happen. Could be a real pain.

    //rant
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    • Profile picture of the author GlenH
      Personally I think not allowing hyped up income claims be in any WSO thread titles would be a good thing to start with.
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      • Profile picture of the author Nathan251
        Originally Posted by GlenH View Post

        Personally I think not allowing hyped up income claims be in any WSO thread titles would be a good thing to start with.

        but then how will I earn 7 billion dollars in 45 seconds???
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        • Profile picture of the author Nathan251
          To prevent WSOs from slipping down the first page faster then why not just divide the WSO section into several sections

          - wordpress wsos

          - seo wsos

          - affiliate marketing wsos etc. etc.

          7 or 8 broad categories

          People who are searching for this stuff will find it easier to find and of course your WSO will stay on the first page longer because there are less competing WSOs

          If Freelancer.com implement this simple suggestion I want a 6 figure salary (and I don't mean $1000.99) with the company starting early September please
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          • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
            Originally Posted by Nathan251 View Post

            To prevent WSOs from slipping down the first page faster then why not just divide the WSO section into several sections

            - wordpress wsos

            - seo wsos

            - affiliate marketing wsos etc. etc.

            7 or 8 broad categories

            People who are searching for this stuff will find it easier to find and of course your WSO will stay on the first page longer because there are less competing WSOs

            If Freelancer.com implement this simple suggestion I want a 6 figure salary (and I don't mean $1000.99) with the company starting early September please
            That's not a bad idea Nathan, but then again people will complain their WSO is not getting enough exposure. No matter what you do, there will be people who are not happy
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            • Profile picture of the author Nathan251
              Originally Posted by Alex Blades View Post

              That's not a bad idea Nathan, but then again people will complain their WSO is not getting enough exposure. No matter what you do, there will be people who are not happy
              perhaps but then again visitors to your WSO page will be more targeted
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              • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
                Originally Posted by Nathan251 View Post

                perhaps but then again visitors to your WSO page will be more targeted
                It will, but like I said, you can't please everybody. People will moan and groan no matter what you do :p
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      • Profile picture of the author RobinInTexas
        Originally Posted by GlenH View Post

        Personally I think not allowing hyped up income claims be in any WSO thread titles would be a good thing to start with.
        I like to see the hyped up claims. The easiest way to identify pure malarkey is when you see a promise of $1,000,000 annual income for less than $20.

        Why not just go buy a pirate treasure map?
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    • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
      I think that lowering the price of a WSO to $20.00 is actually a good thing!

      Listen, everything in life changes, our laws change every day and so does the internet as you can see with Google, Facebook and Youtube. Why should the Warrior forum be any different.

      Dropping off of the first page quickly can be a good thing! Lets just say that you launch a WSO and it drops off the first page fast with little or no sales, what you would do is bump it and when it slides off the 1st page again, examine the results.

      This is your opportunity to do a little split testing, such as going over your copy to see what can be tweaked. You may want to change the title, maybe rearrange some images or add more testimonials.

      Why in the world would you want a stale WSO to go on and on just as it is.





      Originally Posted by Sarevok View Post

      If you want it to be "fair", here's the only way to do it.

      Make it so *ONLY* proven BUYERS can leave reviews.

      This means no more review copies.

      You want a 100% fair review system, that's the only way to do it.

      My vote? Keep it the way it is. (I think review copies have their place, but my dominant "left brain" keeps telling me that it's not a 100% fair system if they exist. Because some people are just largely popular and have raving fans DYING to review their product).



      Getting on to the matter of review copies, I don't think that they should be done away with.

      Reviews are no different then testimonials and are great for credibility. Folks just need to use some common sense and use the search function. If you want to research the credibility of a particular reviewer, just search their user name and check out other wso's that they have reviewed. If you find that the member has been endorsing junk then you just have gotten yourself valuable info in knowing that any review given by that member is questionable to say the least.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
    The $20 WSO is getting good and bad reviews... Good for the little guy looking to launch their own product, and it makes the decision to bump easier. Bad because it drops your WSO from the front page faster than flies on poop.

    I think the $20 fee and lifetime membership is just a gift from the new owners to make the transition easier. I don't have a problem with it, but I know some are pissed because it drops their WSO from the first page in less than half a day.

    I think people are just bumping to try to resurrect old threads, and it will pass
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    • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
      Of the WSO's currently on page one 11 of them are older posts that haven't been bumped for a while until today, 9 are new WSO's that haven't been bumped before, and the rest are WSO's that have been running for a while and have been bumped from 2 to 95 times.




      Originally Posted by Alex Blades View Post

      I think people are just bumping to try to resurrect old threads, and it will pass
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  • Profile picture of the author rakhwas
    I personally think this is a great idea, vouch for the smaller fee yay!
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  • Profile picture of the author trustedmarketer
    The $20 for the war room would be great news for people who haven't joined yet.

    Reducing the WSO cost to $20 will probably increase the number of people suffering from info overload. Can you image the number of people releasing WSO's willy nilly every 10 mins?

    I'm betting on Freelancer providing discounted rates to WF members on their main site plus any vouchers as a welcoming gift.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
    If anyone is interested in the exact reason WSO's were originally bumped to $40 on 9-14-2010, here they are...

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post2598066

    Originally Posted by admin

    If you care to know the real goal I have I'll tell you. I 'hope' the number of new WSO's posted are cut exactly in half. Thinning the place out so offers stay on the first page longer and I don't have to create multiple subsections. That is the goal.
    Originally Posted by admin

    Although I am hoping it does cut down on the junk offers. And it will, but the way in which it will I don't think I'll bring up here. If you just think about where tons of those junk offers 'come from' it won't take you long to get it. That's all I can say.
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  • Profile picture of the author DoubleOhDave
    JVZoo listings are free, so what's the diff?

    Plus - cream always rises to the top!
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
      JVZoo listings are free, so what's the diff?
      When did JVzoo listing become free?

      JVZoo Commission Fee. JVZoo will charge a commission fee of 5% of the gross selling price on each product or service sold by a Vendor through the Affiliate Network; provided, that, the Vendor has not chosen to pay a one-time fee to Us, if such option is available by JVZoo to Vendor. If Vendor chooses to use the Affiliate Program to sell Vendor's products and services on WarriorForum.com's "Warrior Special Offer" section, then Vendor will be eligible to choose to pay a one-time fee to JVZoo of $17 per product or service offered on such website, before the first sale of such product or service. An additional fee of $.01 per sale will be charged to Vendor for each sale on WarriorForum.com's "Warrior Special Offer" section that was not referred by a registered Affiliate of JVZoo.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Sumner
    I'm on the fence about the $20, worry that the quality might drop, and the quantity go way up... we'll see?
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades

    I think they should limit the number of new WSOs that can be implemented at any time (say 1 every hour, or based on how they deem fit) to prevent the bombardment issue.
    I totally agree with the time limit...

    In fact we have to send this as a suggestion to freelancer.com
    at $20 an hour, I think they can recoup the 3.2 million they've spent in about 20 years :p
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  • Profile picture of the author manolo2
    I don't think necessarily the quality will lower but keeping it onthe 1st page is going to reader cost the producer of the WSO
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  • Profile picture of the author ErinWalsh
    Thanks for reducing the fees. I'll have to go to the forums that talk more about Freelancer apparently acquiring Warrior? I'm curious about this -- wondering what benefits that has for us.
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  • Yeah, the threads do disappear faster; we'll see how it goes with the new price point.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Nothing like browsing through the WSO watching a bunch of WSOs whiz by at the speed of light. lol

    I thought the price increase to $40 was a great improvement to the WSO forum, both in quality of WSOs and in advertisers value.
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    • Profile picture of the author andrewkar
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Nothing like browsing through the WSO watching a bunch of WSOs whiz by at the speed of light. lol

      I thought the price increase to $40 was a great improvement to the WSO forum, both in quality of WSOs and in advertisers value.
      No it won't happen. There might be a few crappy ones more but I don't think there is going to be flood of crap. Also, success of WSOs at least in some part, lies outside of WF and probably in connections (but I have heard a lot of different opinions about that) and many other things.

      From the owner point of view it's a good try. Hopefully it will speed up WSO market. $40 was too much for many people outside the US, EU and other developed countris. $20 makes it easier to enter the market but owner of the marketplace won't lose because people will bump threads for another $20 and probably there will be more of them. Besides, we don't know what the owners are preparing for the future. Certainly it will be interesting to watch.
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  • Profile picture of the author aronprins
    I think its awesome news! Just posted my first WSO so we'll see what happens
    Thanks guys and good luck.

    Cheers,
    Aron
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
    There are a lot of good opportunities here for developing a better Warrior Special Offer Forum.

    Price is not really the issue, (yes, a higher price may be a deterrent for some members) If the idea is to reduce the number of WSO product offerings.

    I really do not think erecting a pricing barrier is the answer, to reducing bad offers or bad sellers.

    Twenty Bucks is fair, )

    The real question is how to manage exposure.

    As a WSO seller you want Exposure, you want to reach the buyers that are interested in your products and services.

    I posted a WSO offer once and was in the top spot for 12 minutes.

    The fifth spot, for 8 minutes.

    The 22 spot for one hour.

    I was off the first page in four hours.
    Now if you consider that for 20 bucks, the amount of exposure you get in that scenario, You could say it is a hit or miss opportunity.

    If your prospective customer, is online, is looking at the WSO section and is interested in your product or service, then you might just catch them in that slightly less than one hour time frame.

    But if they are not actively engaged in viewing the WSO forum, you might not even show up on their radar even though your product or service might be just what they want to buy.

    The only way to really produce a level of exposure that benefits both the website owner and the buyers as well as the sellers, is to create a commission structure payment system.

    More on that later, )))
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
      Yeah, the threads do disappear faster; we'll see how it goes with the new price point.
      I think it will slow down soon, people are just trying to resurrect old threads
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
    I would love to see the WSO section return to what it was originally. A place to advertise SPECIAL OFFERS to warriors. Not a place to create products JUST TO SELL to warriors.

    Bring back and enforce that a product has to be for sale outside the WSO section and that the price being offered in the WSO section is lower than what the general public pays. Or warriors receive ADDITIONAL products, bonuses etc...

    That may not eliminate all the crap... But it would possibly eliminate a large portion of the crap.

    That's my 2 cents on the subject.

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  • Profile picture of the author awledd
    I tried to upgrade to The War Room and the price now is $97/year for War Room Membership. Has it been updated lately? Because in this thread it says 20 dollars?
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  • I personally like the idea of lowering the price of anything, but it is obvious the value is similar to what is was before. Is is cheaper now but the WSO's are moving quickly to page 2.
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