Blog scrapers beware!

38 replies
I was speaking to a friend in the business yesterday. I won't name names, but let's just say he's been doing this for a LONG time and his public blog has literally THOUSANDS of posts he's personally made -- perhaps he's close to 5,000 posts at this point -- and we're talking about a big following and high quality content.

In any case, we got on the subject of "auto blogging". During our discussion he mentioned that he had recently gotten a blog shut down (as in taken completely off their server and their hosting account revoked) because he'd found that this "blogger" was scraping my friend's blog and re-posting my friend's blog posts (along with posts of others) on his site.

He tried to get in touch with the blog owner via e-mail to no avail. So he went directly to the hosting provider, gave them proof that his material had been re-published, and the blog scraper was shut down. He's decided he's going to take the time to find any place that his blog content is being republished and get it removed or see if he can have the hosting provider close the site.

So to all shady blog scrapers: beware of what content you're re-publishing. You may wake up one morning and find your nice little revenue stream completely cut off.
#beware #blog #scrapers
  • Profile picture of the author ultraeternity
    Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

    I was speaking to a friend in the business yesterday. I won't name names, but let's just say he's been doing this for a LONG time and his public blog has literally THOUSANDS of posts he's personally made -- perhaps he's close to 5,000 posts at this point -- and we're talking about a big following and high quality content.

    In any case, we got on the subject of "auto blogging". During our discussion he mentioned that he had recently gotten a blog shut down (as in taken completely off their server and their hosting account revoked) because he'd found that this "blogger" was scraping my friend's blog and re-posting my friend's blog posts (along with posts of others) on his site.

    He tried to get in touch with the blog owner via e-mail to no avail. So he went directly to the hosting provider, gave them proof that his material had been re-published, and the blog scraper was shut down. He's decided he's going to take the time to find any place that his blog content is being republished and get it removed or see if he can have the hosting provider close the site.

    So to all shady blog scrapers: beware of what content you're re-publishing. You may wake up one morning and find your nice little revenue stream completely cut off.
    A new domain and host will cost $20 max, so even if the autoblog makes only $20, nothing lost nothing gained. Starting a new one will be relatively cheap and will not affect the person's revenue stream that much.

    I don't run autoblogs, but I am sure getting a few autoblogs shutdown once in a while will be no big deal for most blackhats.
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  • Profile picture of the author Valdor Kiebach
    He's decided he's going to take the time to find any place that his blog content is being republished and get it removed or see if he can have the hosting provider close the site.

    So hes not going to contact the site owner and request they dont reproduce his content first, thats just arrogant.

    Whats he doing about his RSS feeds, stopping them or will he persecute those who subscribe to his RSS as well.

    Just sounds a bit harsh to go straight for the 'shut down/ removed from server' firstbefore any contact or polite business like request's
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      Originally Posted by Valdor Kiebach View Post

      He's decided he's going to take the time to find any place that his blog content is being republished and get it removed or see if he can have the hosting provider close the site.

      So hes not going to contact the site owner and request they dont reproduce his content first, thats just arrogant.

      Whats he doing about his RSS feeds, stopping them or will he persecute those who subscribe to his RSS as well.

      Just sounds a bit harsh to go straight for the 'shut down/ removed from server' firstbefore any contact or polite business like request's
      Harsh? If someone steals from you, will you first tell them that it is not the right thing to do and give them a warning? Or are you going to call the police?
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
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      • Profile picture of the author Nigel Greaves
        Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

        Harsh? If someone steals from you, will you first tell them that it is not the right thing to do and give them a warning? Or are you going to call the police?
        You're spot on Kevin.

        I wasted time with a well-known Syracuse, New York based Warrior trying to get him to see the stupidity of using my copyrighted articles and it was only went I went to the lawyers of his hosting company (1 and 1) that I got anywhere.

        If he uses them anywhere else I'll simply go direct to the legal department as my first action in future. A thief is a thief end of story.

        Nigel
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        • Profile picture of the author anth.elias
          If it is a autoblog that uses RSS feeds or some type of feed burner or whatever, then it is perfectly legal, because all RSS feeds unmodified give credit to the site or blog that it is getting the content from, it not blackhat it's perfectly fine as long as you give credit to the site and author.

          In fact if you really think about it having your sites content with a backlink to your site on other sites and blogs is great advertising for your site, and it's free.

          So if you have RSS feeds for your site, stop whining or take your feeds off, the only gripe you have is if other bloggers are copying and pasting content from your site with out giving you credit, and if that is the case that is a whole different can of worms.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
            Originally Posted by anth.elias View Post

            If it is a autoblog that uses RSS feeds or some type of feed burner or whatever, then it is perfectly legal
            I would be careful about throwing around a phrase like "perfectly legal" on this particular issue. Take a look at the parts in red:

            TNW: Give us a rundown of what's going on.

            Sunstein: Copyright law until very recently had a much easier time of it. The world was analog as far as media goes until around 2000. Then we had DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act), which has angered many. Why do we need that now? Why does it make a difference? Because until 2000, it was a pain in the butt to reproduce a work that was protected by copyright. For many, many years, decades, you could make a reasonable copy of a record, but you had to buy the tape and it wouldn't be [the] same quality. Today we have great photocopiers that will copy in color. Why don't I just take a copy of a book? It's a pain and it's not as good of a copy.

            But suddenly now, every consumer has this digital equipment and we can reproduce content as easily as the owner of the copyright. The digital equipment has changed the leverage between the copyright owner and the consumer.

            What can and can't be done with someone's copyrighted material is still being worked out. Problems did get more complicated when any consumer could be in the business of distribution.

            TNW: Is there a difference between types of published content, for instance RSS feeds?

            Sunstein: No, RSS is just another example of that in this context.
            Same law applies to everybody. The environment is different and that may be causing different behavior, but it's the same rules. People see something and it's easy to reproduce, so they do it.

            TNW: So are there legal reuses of RSS feed material?


            Sunstein: No. Well, the longer answer is, yeah, maybe. It gets to be possible, but a lot of people put content on the Internet and expect it to be protected by copyright. You don't need notice of copyright. You haven't since Jan. 1, 1978. If you publish without a notice, it doesn't mean stuff isn't protected. If I put my stuff on the Internet without notice, I can still sue if someone redistributes my RSS feed.

            TNW: But much of this content is meant to be shared.

            Sunstein: You can always get permission. There is this thought that a lot of people have that if I see this on the Net I can copy this and redistribute [it]. You can't. Of course, you can with permission or if you publish under a less restrictive license, like the Creative Commons.

            Link:

            Technology News: ECT News Exclusives: IP Attorney Bruce Sunstein Discusses RSS Copyright

            The part about "if you sit on your rights, you've given them away" is the part my friend is taking care of right now.
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            • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
              Another thing to consider is that if you sign up and submit your feed to an RSS aggregation site and agree to their terms of service (that you probably didn't read) you may be agreeing to allow your feed to syndicated under their terms of service. You may have given your permission for scrapping and not even realized it.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

              I would be careful about throwing around a phrase like "perfectly legal" on this particular issue. Take a look at the parts in red:

              TNW: Give us a rundown of what's going on.

              Sunstein: Copyright law until very recently had a much easier time of it. The world was analog as far as media goes until around 2000. Then we had DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act), which has angered many. Why do we need that now? Why does it make a difference? Because until 2000, it was a pain in the butt to reproduce a work that was protected by copyright. For many, many years, decades, you could make a reasonable copy of a record, but you had to buy the tape and it wouldn't be [the] same quality. Today we have great photocopiers that will copy in color. Why don't I just take a copy of a book? It's a pain and it's not as good of a copy.

              But suddenly now, every consumer has this digital equipment and we can reproduce content as easily as the owner of the copyright. The digital equipment has changed the leverage between the copyright owner and the consumer.

              What can and can't be done with someone's copyrighted material is still being worked out. Problems did get more complicated when any consumer could be in the business of distribution.

              TNW: Is there a difference between types of published content, for instance RSS feeds?

              Sunstein: No, RSS is just another example of that in this context.
              Same law applies to everybody. The environment is different and that may be causing different behavior, but it's the same rules. People see something and it's easy to reproduce, so they do it.

              TNW: So are there legal reuses of RSS feed material?

              Sunstein: No. Well, the longer answer is, yeah, maybe. It gets to be possible, but a lot of people put content on the Internet and expect it to be protected by copyright. You don't need notice of copyright. You haven't since Jan. 1, 1978. If you publish without a notice, it doesn't mean stuff isn't protected. If I put my stuff on the Internet without notice, I can still sue if someone redistributes my RSS feed.

              TNW: But much of this content is meant to be shared.

              Sunstein: You can always get permission. There is this thought that a lot of people have that if I see this on the Net I can copy this and redistribute [it]. You can't. Of course, you can with permission or if you publish under a less restrictive license, like the Creative Commons.

              Link:

              Technology News: ECT News Exclusives: IP Attorney Bruce Sunstein Discusses RSS Copyright

              The part about "if you sit on your rights, you've given them away" is the part my friend is taking care of right now.
              Of course RSS pheeds are protected under copyright use.

              However, a case can be made that having an RSS button on one's page is "implied consent" to use the material in the pheed.

              RSS was created for the purpose of syndicating content from one site to another by Netscape. IMO, if you friend doesn't want his pheeds picked up, then he shouldn't be publishing an RSS button which implies it's OK to use that content, according to "fair use" principles.

              Your friend controls what is included in the RSS. He has the ability to EASILY create an RSS pheed that only uses links/anchor text, with no descriptive text at all. Or, not offer an RSS pheed at all.

              It's different if someone just steals content. But putting it in an RSS pheed, then posting an RSS button, which IMO says "take me" on your site is another matter.

              Many of the people that complain about someone using their content actually have a Feedburner pheed on their site. Feedburner even says something like "put this feed on your site". Also, people submit their RSS to aggregators, whose TOS say their pheeds can be used as content, with the RSS pheed not coming directly from a blog.

              If I have an RSS button, I WANT scrapers, or legit web masters, to pick it up which gives me links, exposure and reach. Again, the original purpose of RSS is to syndicate content from site to site. That's why I put it in a pheed with a bright orange button linking to it.
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      • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
        Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

        Harsh? If someone steals from you, will you first tell them that it is not the right thing to do and give them a warning? Or are you going to call the police?
        What we're talking about here is a civil, not criminal, wrong for the most part. You don't call the cops for a civil problem. You try to resolve it satisfactorily with the other party and, if a resolution isn't possible, you move on to lawyers and the courts.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
      Originally Posted by Valdor Kiebach View Post

      He's decided he's going to take the time to find any place that his blog content is being republished and get it removed or see if he can have the hosting provider close the site.

      So hes not going to contact the site owner and request they dont reproduce his content first, thats just arrogant.
      No. I didn't word my sentence well:

      "He's decided he's going to take the time to find any place that his blog content is being republished and get it (THE CONTENT) removed (BY CONTACTING THE REPUBLISHER) or see if he can have the hosting provider close the site (IF THE REPUBLISHER IS NON-RESPONSIVE)."

      Phew! If I had written the sentence so poorly you'd have understood what I meant the first time. Sorry 'bout that!
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    • Profile picture of the author Matt Gannon
      Originally Posted by Valdor Kiebach View Post

      He's decided he's going to take the time to find any place that his blog content is being republished and get it removed or see if he can have the hosting provider close the site.

      So hes not going to contact the site owner and request they dont reproduce his content first, thats just arrogant.

      Whats he doing about his RSS feeds, stopping them or will he persecute those who subscribe to his RSS as well.

      Just sounds a bit harsh to go straight for the 'shut down/ removed from server' firstbefore any contact or polite business like request's
      Well the scraper did not contact him and ask to copy his content either I say they get whats coming. If it is an rss feed however i feel its free to use. If he don't like it maybe he should disable his rss.
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  • Profile picture of the author blogginvixen
    As someone whose content -- copyrighted content at that -- has been stolen, I've been down this route before. I've immediately had the stolen content removed by going straight to the hosting company. If at anytime a registrar's information is incorrect (as is the case with this person), it can render the domain unavailable until correct information is provided. I fired off a few letters to him, the domain provider, the hosting company, and Google which indeed worked.
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  • Profile picture of the author kentaiwan98
    Don't know. My site has been scraped a couple of times... I contacted the owner who made excuses about not knowing what was on his site. But it was pulled from the site.

    It's better to focus on the egregious copying rather than the accidental or occasional copying. For occasional copying, encourage citing and linking to improve your traffic... and that will help.

    For someone scraping your entire site, there may be no other solution than going to the hosting company.

    So look at the offense and decide but don't use a hammer to crack a peanut.

    Kenneth
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  • Profile picture of the author JonathanBoettcher
    It's an interesting argument, because I would imagine that this guy was merely re-publishing a feed off your friend's site.

    How many places re-publish news feeds? For that matter - Google News does nothing BUT!

    If you really don't want your content re-published somewhere else, then I'd suggest ditching the feed, perhaps just go with an email update list or something.

    Now - if the guy was publishing content without giving credit where due, then that's a different story. Then it is actually content theft. However, if credit is being given....?

    Also - does your friend have any terms or conditions or anything on his site prohibiting this sort of behaviour?

    Just like the whole duplicate content argument in SEO - the fact is that the internet is built on duplicate content, there's no way to get around it. Personally, if I find a blog that's replicating my content I'd want to just make sure that they were crediting me for the creation of it, then I would leave them alone.

    But that's just my 2 cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tyrus Antas
    Tell him to add a link back to his site with keywords in the anchor text and insert that link into his blog's RSS feed. Scrappers are lazy and sometimes they won't even go to the trouble of removing the link.

    Even though PR benefits aren't great because of duplicate content issues, it still benefits him.

    Tyrus
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  • Profile picture of the author askloz
    ROTFLMFAO... these people are so stupid, i mean, come on, to copy the entire content, omg... how lazy is that?

    I've been doing this for over 2 years, difference, mines automated and rewrites the content, spits it out, and fetches backlinks at the same time.

    Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

    I was speaking to a friend in the business yesterday. I won't name names, but let's just say he's been doing this for a LONG time and his public blog has literally THOUSANDS of posts he's personally made -- perhaps he's close to 5,000 posts at this point -- and we're talking about a big following and high quality content. .
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  • Profile picture of the author lazyfrog
    Hell everybody. I just hate auto blogs. But anything love and war is fair. And IM is war.
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    • Profile picture of the author flamingleaf8
      Originally Posted by lazyfrog View Post

      Hell everybody. I just hate auto blogs. But anything love and war is fair. And IM is war.

      as they say, its a jungle out there, and people will do anything to survive. maybe in the beginning he did not intend to scrape off the whole article, but as everyone said, people tend to get lazy if they are doing this often, a thousand times,over and over.
      i wonder, how he searches the web, for scrapers..?
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    I only put promotional stuff on the blogs that I don't mind being stolen. All the monetized content is in email or membership lockdown.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    Of course, and the TOS on his site states specifically that his content may not be republished for commercial benefit. So clearly he's in the right, but as some here say, it depends on what you're trying to achieve.
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    • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
      Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

      Of course, and the TOS on his site states specifically that his content may not be republished for commercial benefit. So clearly he's in the right, but as some here say, it depends on what you're trying to achieve.
      The point is that if he gave permission for an RSS aggregation site to distribute it under their TOS he accidentally decided to supersede his original rights.

      Oh, and yes, Google is technically violation of his copyright since they're copying his content directly from his site for commercial purposes. He should go onto Webmaster tools and ask them to deindex his site to avoid this infringement in the future.
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  • Profile picture of the author Virtual Banker
    %95 of blog scrappers are also scrapping about 6000 other blogs along with yours.... and probably making 10x $$ what you making by doing it.. . . .
    so keep that in mind when you formulate your view of them and how to relate and interact with them
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    • Profile picture of the author JonathanBoettcher
      Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

      Of course, and the TOS on his site states specifically that his content may not be republished for commercial benefit. So clearly he's in the right, but as some here say, it depends on what you're trying to achieve.
      That answers 95% of this debate right there... the only question remaining is regarding his course of action once the scraper was discovered.

      Originally Posted by Virtual Banker View Post

      %95 of blog scrappers are also scrapping about 6000 other blogs along with yours.... and probably making 10x $$ what you making by doing it.. . . .
      so keep that in mind when you formulate your view of them and how to relate and interact with them
      Ok, sorry but I've been watching this thread all day and 955 of you are calling this "scrapping" - which if you look it up means throwing stuff out.

      Taking content off another site is called "scraping", as in you scrape it off and use it again. (not related to the 10 second rule).

      ~Grammar police out.~
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  • Profile picture of the author Soflyy
    It doesn't matter what his TOS says - his content is protected by copyright law regardless.
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  • Profile picture of the author bhopkins
    Okay my two cents. Going after these people is a waste of time. Most are hosted offshore so it won't matter anyway. Second just publish a partial feed and add your links to the feed. You'll improve your rank in Google and Technorati. People republish my feeds all the time and it just helps me out. Of course I don't publish their comments from the pingback so I get a one way link. Might not count for much but a link is a link and if I don't have to do anything extra to get it then that's all the better
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    Bruce

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    • Profile picture of the author Jon Alexander
      Originally Posted by bhopkins View Post

      Okay my two cents. Going after these people is a waste of time. Most are hosted offshore so it won't matter anyway. Second just publish a partial feed and add your links to the feed. You'll improve your rank in Google and Technorati. People republish my feeds all the time and it just helps me out. Of course I don't publish their comments from the pingback so I get a one way link. Might not count for much but a link is a link and if I don't have to do anything extra to get it then that's all the better
      this is very well put, Hopkinster. The fact is, a new blog / host can be up in minutes, versus the days it will take an internet vigilante to get one closed down. Most splogs are hosted for free on the free wordpress MU sites anyway, so that makes it even more difficult. And frankly, the new generation of tools out there mean that even if your article gets 'scrapped' :-) you 1. probably won't recognize it (because it will have been rewritten so much) and 2. you can't action it anyway, because it has been rewritten so much. Anyone noticing the 'rewritten so much' motif to this?

      Constructive advice to bloggers - don't waste your lives trying to 'smack' people who lift your content. Spend the time instead making the content 'un-liftable'. I.e embed stuff in it so that even if it gets stolen, it still promotes YOU. That way, the thieves are doing you a favor.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Jon Alexander View Post

        embed stuff in it so that even if it gets stolen, it still promotes YOU.
        Exactly. Your stuff WILL be stolen. The person who steals it will not invest any time in scrubbing it, though - he's too lazy to write his own content, after all - so set yourself up to be promoted by the theft.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    I had a certain hosting company we all know shut down a competitors website with in a matter of hours. No one on the internet had any access to the site until the hosting company hears from the offending site owner that the content was removed.

    I need to say that I did contact the site owner by phone and had two conversations with him about it. I gave him 72 hours to remove the content, then he calls back and starts to try and call me lame for making an issue about it in the first place.

    That is when his 72 hours grace period was revoked instantly and I proceeded to contact the hosting company.

    His next call to me was 4 hours later screaming at me for having his site blocked and that I had given him 72 hours.

    I said, well you changed the rules when you called me the second time and insulted me. So now you have no web site until you prove to the hosting company you have removed it.

    lol good stuff!

    Please take theft of your property seriously folks. Its pretty easy to win if you document your complaint correctly.

    I used:
    whois and wayback to provide my proof.
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  • This is actually sad... but the reality is the "scraper" guy will most likely just be right back at it on another server within a couple of hours. The reality is this... have you ever tried to get a server shut down in say Russia or Eastern Europe or China or? So he got one guy to stop scraping his stuff. And it took him how long?

    The reality is Google can't always stop these people, but the real disincentive is to go after the PROFIT. Find the Affiliates he is promoting and ask them to pay you his earnings because it's your work.

    Plagiarism is rampant. With the right software people can scrap the *)(*() out of you and you can still have your backlinks and in some cases affiliate links appearing on their sites so they are in effect working for you.

    I understand the frustration I have had entire sites lifted. But the best thing to do is figure out how to spin it to your advantage.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    i said this a few times already - as much as i understand the owner of the article/blog entry and his anger - as much do i think its not really fair, for the follwing reasons:


    *) whatever content you post on "the internet", in one form or the other it will circulate, spread and be shared. Especially if you post on "article mills" like EZA or other article directories.

    I have already seen people making articles public on ezine arrticles - and act puzzled since they saw their articles some days later somewhere else. This does NOT make sense in my opinion.

    *) autoblogs usually get articles from article directories, usually they dont scrape other blogs directly - but its certainly thinkable.

    Each wordpress blog has RSS feeds, and their only purpose is to distribute content "into the internet", blogging and pinging...and telling the world "Hello, i have new content!"

    Many other blogs use RSS to get content - i could plug it one single RSS feed from Google blog search...and in little time i get links and articles on MY site from other blogs. Because google indexes them and re-distrubtes the feed again.

    This actually the purpose of RSS feeds, in the first place.

    If someone is freaking about content distribution is probably NOT a good idea at all to post content online in the first place.

    This is not criminal or bad intention on any blog-owner's side - AT ALL.
    If i use RSS feeds on a blog - it will happen that OTHER content will appear on my blog. Fact.

    Where is the line? Where is the line..scraping...RSS...autoblogging?

    Tip: There is only one way to protect your content...make a closed, membership site.
    Dont blog, dont have RSS feeds, dont distribute RSS, dont do "Web2.0", dont social bookmark your site/content.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Taylor
    If there's an RSS feed involved here, then it isn't even scraping. Scraping involves reading the page programmatically and saving the data for later use. An RSS feed's nearly universal purpose is to syndicate data. And if your friend publishes through an RSS feed, then what else did he expect? Honestly.

    "But your honor, I did indeed set my full wallet down on that busy New York sidewalk, but that didn't give the guy that picked it up the right to take it!"
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    • Profile picture of the author wealthmaker2008
      Originally Posted by Michael Taylor View Post

      If there's an RSS feed involved here, then it isn't even scraping. Scraping involves reading the page programmatically and saving the data for later use. An RSS feed's nearly universal purpose is to syndicate data. And if your friend publishes through an RSS feed, then what else did he expect? Honestly.

      "But your honor, I did indeed set my full wallet down on that busy New York sidewalk, but that didn't give the guy that picked it up the right to take it!"
      well said my friend disable the rss button like has been said 50 times, dont promote your content what so ever to free trade sites or submission sites and then come back and cry if its screen scraped. Your guys verbage of what is what is a little off. Scraping is done when feed is not offered.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I have quite a few autoblogs. Recently one person who owns a blog that I am using their rss feed left a comment on my blog, saying "I love this blog". Never had anyone complain about it. They get full attribution for the post, a backlink to the post.

    I personally love it when my sites are scraped with attribution. The only time I would object is if they scrape with no link back. Easiest way to get backlinks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      The only time I would object is if they scrape with no link back.
      And in this case, the offending site did just that. The scraper removed any attributions or links back to the original blog, which started back in the late 1990's. We're not talking about a blog that started six months ago here, we're talking about 11 or so years of content snagged and republished without attribution.

      Anyhow, I personally don't have the time or inclination to run around and find all of the content that's been stolen from me, I just move on and create the next new thing. My friend earns 7 figures online and I'm only earning six, so he can sit on the dock behind his house and look for his stolen content all day long if he wants -- I have to keep pressing forward.
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