Um, I have a JOB! (warning, this is a rant)

by 53 replies
75
You know something guys, I'm really getting tired of super-long videos with no controls and hidden payment buttons. And even more tired of webinars. In fact I'm at the point now where the minute I see the word webinar or "claim your seat" or any such thing I just stop reading. And it's getting to the point now where the new thing is to refuse to offer a replay.

I wonder if we're forgetting sometimes that we're marketing to people many of whom have full time jobs. I just got a link for something I'm really interested in, and there's no way for me to find out more about it without sitting through a 30 minute video. The average webinar is at least an hour long and I'm going in knowing in advance that it's an hour long sales letter. Can I just read what you're offering and buy it? I have a job, man! I'm not available at 11 am for your live webinar and I don't want to sit through your 45 minute video to find out you're charging $200 bucks. Ok. I'm done. I'm late for work.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #job #rant #warning
  • Could not agree more. People keep doing them, so they must convert well, but I also instantly leave when I get a sales video with no controls.
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    • I think we have a Catch-22 going here.

      "People keep doing them, so they must convert well."

      "If people keep doing them, they must convert well, so I'll do it, too."

      And the wheels on the bus go round and round...
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  • Same feeling here, my email is bombarded with rocket daily...

    Personally when I am very interested in software-tools-apps, you name it, and know the webinar is hour or more, what I do is switch on my tablet let it run while doing other staff in my PC, and came back later to see the webinar at the end the Sale Prices and if the sale price is too high, I memorize the Guru who is promoting to me and if he do it couple of time, he is in my Guru Unwanted list )
  • I prefer stuff that is in writing forms, sales letter etc...

    still we have to give them all the reason to buy, do all the suggestion and use all the marketing technology to make customers buy...
  • Do you feel better now for having a rant?

    It seems to be the new way to market. Looooooong videos which go all around the houses and have a point 20 minutes later. Not my thing either.
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  • Absolutely agree. The bit that gets me the most is when you watch a video that you can't skim through and if you stop it to find the appropriate controls it sends you bank to the beginning where you have to watch the whole thing again just to find out you don't want it.
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    • What I really hate and I won't mention a name is when they say you have to sign up to the webinar because there is no recording being done because the guy doing the webinar is soooooo amazing he won't allow it because all this free info is like vomiting gold dust. Only a suicidal freak wouldn't show up for this free ride. Yeah baby.

      Then by a miracle the next day they send the replay that wasn't even recorded the day before because, wait for it, he's extended the limited time offer that was never mentioned yesterday either.

      Desperation stinks really badly of desperation.
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  • Have to agree that this strategy is very annoying. However, I was lucky enough to find such a "guru" whose webinars are available to watch them even when they ended, by following a link that he sends me after the webinar. Then again, the fact that I only have one positive example to argue you says enough...
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    • I agree: it's INCREDIBLY annoying and disrespectful of my time to not have a recording. I think this is the new thing in IM because (as one marketer who does this tells it) so many people don't show up to a live call, depending on the recording. But there's a steep and sharp drop off of people who actually listen to the recording (nevermind those actually take action on it).

      While I sympathize with WHY they do it, I'm HUGELY turned off by it. I, too, have a day job. Unfortunately, I work a split shift, INCLUDING nights, weekends and holidays. So I can't make your 8 PM webinar, nor can I hear the encore "live" recording at 10 AM Saturday morning. I'm WORKING! I know I'm probably an outlier, a small minority of people who really can't make almost any "normal" time that's offered. But that's my reality.

      I also resent it when it's a "buy now!"-only special offer. A deadline is hugely important in getting people to act, but WHY does the deadline have to be in less than 24 hours??? If I need to shift money between accounts (or put cash in the bank to cover the purchase), you give me no time to do so.

      So in crafting my own promotions, I'm particularly sensitive to these issues. Fortunately, not everyone does it and I've seen some very smart people doing some AWESOME marketing. The keys are 1) strong e-mail followup and 2) a hard deadline in a few days.

      So basically, they 1) notify me of the upcoming webinar/teleseminar, 2) host the live webinar, 3) follow up with an excellent e-mail sequence and 4) shut the offer down in a few days (3-5 days) using a special software which automatically shows an "offer expired" page if I try to go to the offer page after the deadline.

      I love this because it respects my time and allows me to view/hear the presentation on my (admittedly weird) schedule (I'm usually watching this stuff at 2 AM) and gives me the chance to take advantage of the offer. And it still gives the marketer a chance to get results in a very short time frame: less than 7 days and typically in just 3-4 days.

      Also, given my own schedule, I really can't (and don't want to) do a live presentation. So instead, I'll do a Jeff Walker-style promotion with a sequence of multiple videos (relatively short, just 12-20 minutes) with a hard deadline at the end. It works with just one video too. It allows me to do a promotion without the constraints of a "live" presentation (difficult to do with my weird schedule) and since I'm giving a hard deadline and will yank the whole thing after the deadline, it gets people to act.

      There is so much noise in the market anyway and so many people vying for your dollars that I decided that if someone doesn't respect my time enough to allow me to view/listen to the presentation when I can, I'm not buying, period. Believe me, there's always another offer and program around the corner!

      Occasionally, there will be that PERFECT PROGRAM that you REALLY want, but just can't get all of the info you need to make a purchase since you can't make the webinar. In that case, it's time to do a bit of sleuthing to get the info you need. See if you can locate the sales page. Try the Way Back Machine for earlier/older versions of it. If all else fails, e-mail them, explain your situation and ask for more details or a recording.

      But that's only for something I really want and feel I just have to have. Otherwise, if they don't respect my time enough to allow me to view the webinar when I can, I don't give them my dollars, period.

      Hope that helps!

      Michelle
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  • Yes I'm very annoyed by marketers who only do live webinars and don't offer a replay. I hate to watch 2 hours without being able to smoke a cigarette or get something to drink. But If they sell more by not offering a replay how can you blame them?
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  • Im not going to deny doing this (hiding controls) but you sure do have a point.
    Definetely taking this into consideration for my upcoming projects.

    Thanks!
    Aron
  • A... JOB!!!!???????

    -falls out of chair and runs out of the office-

    Haha.

    I'm just kidding man. I agree with you.

    That's why these days 100% of my videos are upped on YOUTUBE and I leave the controls intact.



    #freedomfortheenduser
  • I personally believe they convert extremely well because if you sit through the entire video, you are more likely to buy it. Why? A matter of cognitive dissonance.

    If you sat through and burned an hour of your life, at the end your going to say to yourself, "why did I just spend an hour watching that?". If you conclude it was a waste of time, you feel a bit stupid and sad you watched all that for nothing. Now, people will literally convince themselves that they are genuinely interested in the product and that was a productive hour of their time spent. So... they buy the product to make them think their hour was well spent.

    Just a little bit of marketing psychology for everyone.

    As for people like you and me who click out of them immediately? Well, I'd say they're willing to lose us if the people who watch the video all the way through is so high.
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    • I've never done a webinar, but I know that there are marketers out there making a killing with them. Apparently some people like them and are persuaded to make the purchase at the end.

      There are different ways of learning - some people do better visually, others like to read and learn. To each his own.

      Which brings me to the point I wanted to share.

      In today's multi-media environment, maybe the best thing we can do as marketers is one of two approaches:
      1. Be consistent if we choose to provide our audience with a particular type of media solution. Let them know how you're going to operate and then look for and cater to those people who are comfortable with what you're doing.
      2. Spend a little more time and effort to give your audience your material in a variety of media formats and let them choose the one (or several) format(s) that they prefer.
      I personally think choice number two will pay the most dividends for today's serious marketers.

      I'd be interested in hearing your opinions.

      Steve
    • I'm not buying that theory at all. The number of people who would spend
      several hundred dollars just becasue they watched the whole thing has to be
      so small that it's actually unmeasurable. Those people would also be likely to
      suffer buyers remorse and request refunds.
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  • It's annoying, but sadly, it works.

    No controls on the video player forces people to watch the entire thing without pausing or being distracted.

    I remember sitting through so many of these in my early IM days and trying to absorb every minute of them, even actually buying the products advertised too.
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    • Good rant - it's justified, imho. I click off - anyone who is so desperate for a sale that they have to force me to watch their ad, I don't want to do business with -
  • Long sales letters are bad enough, a video with no controls and Im gone.
  • I don't understand why you keep spending money on guides or reports that will make you rich tomorrow.

    They say that you can earn 1 million dollars in a month. And then as a disclaimer you are told that there is an example of some guy who earned 1 million and he achieved this because he was popular, had lists, facebook fans, etc. You might think that no problem, if I make 10k is enough. Well, as long as you go into it you will realize that the 10k twitter follower of facebook fans is a must to earn a dollar from the new technique you just found out, or you just realize that it involves work that you don't want or can do.

    However, it is the same story again and again.

  • Well, that's probably because a webinar is really a super-long video
    where it takes a lot longer to get to the point... everything these
    days is volleyed back-and-forth to get the WoW Factor!!! Of course,
    after you watch the video, you can get the playback link, the audio,
    the pdfs, etc., all for a meager charge...

    A webinar is a super-long video with no controls that starts when IT
    wants to and stops when IT ends... so no wonder you don't like them...


    but, fortunately for marketers who use webinars, there are a whole lot
    of people with nothing better to do than seek for answers and waste
    their money on solutions they will never implement.
  • Regardless of what you think about these tactics & HOW WELL they work, think about WHO they work on.

    What it boils down to is that a lot of these offerings do convert well and they convert exactly the prospects they are intended to. It is what it is, regardless of how much you, I, or anyone else gets annoyed.
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  • I can't remember the last time I attended a webinar or watched a sales letter video. My time is too valuable to me. If you won't let me skim the video or offer an alternative sales letter, then it doesn't matter how good your product is, you've lost my attention.

    The same applies to products that are video based...but that's another rant.
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  • I guess those webinars and videos sell best to Newbies, or to people who are not able to stay focused.
    And because this is a very common thing, i think that`s the reason that they convert so well.
    But i admit, that i do not hate videos. From time to time i watch one, but most of the time not live.
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  • Though I agree with you absolutely, that's what sells. That's why a lot of marketers use that tactic to sell their products. If they don't work, they would not use it, don't you think? So I guess you can call it "necessary evil" though I don't like that term at all. lol

    Joe
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    • I usually ignore most webinars. Every now and then I'll watch one and if it's good I'll buy something.
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  • IMHO very few "free" webinars have any useful information. Most are just sales pitches at the end of the day - we all know that, right? I just don't watch them now. After having sat through too many to count I can do so much more with my hour!

    If there's no replay then those doing the video are not "forcing" prospects to watch the webinar. They are losing customers (like me) because, although most customers maybe in the USA, there are those - like us in the UK - who just can't stay up 'till the middle of the night to watch your webinar, even if we wanted to.
  • Don't like webinars? Don't sign up for them.
    Don't like false scarcity? Don't buy from sellers that use this tactic.
    Don't like videos with no controls? Bounce baby.

    People need to stop 'ranting' and start realizing that YOU ARE in control. They buyer always has total control over the seller. Why? Because the buyer has the money. If you don't like these things STOP responding to them. Quit letting the sellers have the power and shuffle you around like a bunch of sheep waiting to be skinned.
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    • this can't be emphasized enough - it's like the commercials on TV, do you ever notice how the volume seems to go up on your TV when they come on? I noticed that especially on some shows - you have to turn the volume up to hear the show and turn it right down during the commercials -
      So the solution for me was simple - Now I watch everything online the next day - commercial-free - works for me!

      We need to start being pro-active - and take responsibility for our life choices - we are a lot more in control than we know.
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  • My curiosity is why are you worried about other people's methods? If you were all selling through your own methods, you wouldn't be spending time in other people's funnels, or be here complaining about them.

    A forum full of "successful" marketers...nonsense.
  • I rarely ever look at video clips and never if they relate to business. Maybe it is my loss but I hate them. If you can't write what your offer is, then it's not for me.
    I am blind in 1 eye and that makes it worse for me. I prefer to read at my own pace and reread if necessary.
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    • Lol I guess it's time for the annual "Herp Derp I'm mad at VSLs and Webinars because they don't respect my time, and all videos should be like youtube and let me control everything!" thread.

      These are always good for a laugh as people on a MARKETING forum cry about marketing and act like their civil rights have been violated because someone else chooses to sell a product in a way that doesn't suit them perfectly, all the while acting like marketers are holding a gun to their head and forcing them to sit through anything.

      Don't want to watch folks? Don't watch.

      It's really that simple. You're all adults, and if you REALLY think a video playing on someone else's website that YOU don't get full control of is a problem, well, you don't have any real problems.

      This forum never ceases to amaze. :rolleyes:
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  • Ha ha. I know 20+ people who did just that, guess what their numbers where like? People say what you do just read it then they don't buy they go and buy from people who do the song and dance. I have seen behind the senes of hundreds of offers the truth is song and dance has to happen or people don't buy.

    I wish I was wrong because I would love to see people just say hay, I got this it's x$. I WOULD LOVE THAT! But that is not what sells. The truth is people what what they say they don't want and it's not truth. I wish I was wrong, because if I was the world would be less of wicked and evil place and we would have less then thousands of regulations and more freedom, but we don't. And if you think I'm wrong and your write, just split test it, it tells the truth (usually different then what the 99% believe is true).
  • I really hate those kinds of sales pages and I consider that the "dark side" of IM.
  • If it's something that you're truly interested in, or have the potential to be interested in, then you'll go through it. You'll go through the webinar process, or watch the reply or watch that video that you can't even pause or rewind or fast forward.

    The people who go through it are 10 times (or whatever amount it is for a given niche/market/product) more likely to make the purchase... and even more, purchase any add ons.

    It works. It may annoy a few people (or many?) but it works. The industry will soon have to move into more "friendlier" options if you they want to start/continue using paid advertising.
  • Those webinars seem to be needed for the social proof on those higher ($200 and up) ticket items...
  • I guess whether such strategies are effective or not depends on your target market. They may well convert for certain products to certain groups of people. It comes down to knowing your target market.

    I agree, it is annoying. I personally choose not to waste my time watching these sort of videos. I'm an impatient guy, and I don't like my time being wasted by fluff. I want to see what you're offering, what problems it's going to solve for me and how much it's going to cost me. Then, if I see value in the offer, I'll buy. But hey, that's me. Time is the only asset you can't get back once you've lost it.

    Some guys are saying just stop whining and don't watch if you don't want to, and that's a fair comment. But I just wonder if the sellers who use these strategies have REALLY considered the impact it has on their prospects? Some will buy, I'm sure. But what about those who get annoyed, and worse, put off by dishonest / deceptive tactics such as saying there'll be no replay and then offering a replay a day later? One must always weigh up the pros and cons of what you're doing and put yourselves in the shoes of your prospects. My view is, treat the prospect they you would like to be treated. Even if they don't buy today, your relationship must remain intact so that they'll buy from you tomorrow. And the next day.
  • I have to admit, that most webinars I've attended
    are a waste of time... but what is even more sick-
    ening is automated webinars.
  • ...double post
  • You're right, totally annoying watching something and getting through 30-40 minutes blabber about how awesome they are, 15-25 minutes basic educational content they promised you to sign up (But you knew most of it anyway) then another 30 mins of why you should get into their more advanced stuff only to find out that its $997!!!

    What can I say, there is no way you can afford that and will pay it, so what a waste of your time.

    Why do they do this and waste your time when you live in the real world, not some multi million dollar pad and sit on the beach while you do your few hours work everyday.

    The truth is this, they know you wont buy and it doesn't concern them... Shock Horror!

    You have cost them nothing and never really will, they are only concerned about the ones that actually are looking to buy.

    They know a certain % of people have the money to pay that amount to access the super awesome stuff they have on offer, they just want to make sure that those that do are convinced enough to make sure they take out their credit cards and put the numbers into their sales page.

    You were not going to do that and odds are where never interested in the offer, even if it was half that price, you were looking for the free training.

    If you went on a webinar with $10k burning a hole in your back pocket, wanting to get the best training possible, you wouldn't be getting bored, you wouldn't be feeling liek you wasted the last hour and a half when that $997 price comes up at the end.

    You would be pulling the credit card out and buying to make sure your in.

    24 hours not needed, replay not needed, you buy then.

    Thats why replays and long periods of notice aren't needed, in fact the can do harm by having them as people think they can leave and come back later if you don't put a little urgency on it, and if they do that then they may forget and then watch another webinar and buy that the next day.

    So if you go on a webinar freebie seeking, you have to take the rough with the smooth, you cant be expecting it all your own way, they really aren't talking to you, their talking to the buyers to maximise how much they can make for their 2 hours work.

    Hope that helps, next time you watch a webinar make sure you have some money set aside just in case that when the price comes up at the end you can afford it and get in, you will find there much more fun that way!
  • To be honest I don't watch either. I read a lot on my phone and I like to skim through the content to see if it is worth my time. Every one has different learning styles and I learn better by reading and rereading. I am thinking the lesson in this thread is to offer different types of media to your audience to accommodate different learning styles. If the goal is to maximize conversions, I would not want to make anyone mad because I offered a video with no controls.
  • Any video without controls = close the tab. You don't even know how long it is going to be
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  • 75

    Um, I have a JOB! (warning, this is a rant)

    You know something guys, I'm really getting tired of super-long videos with no controls and hidden payment buttons. And even more tired of webinars. In fact I'm at the point now where the minute I see the word webinar or "claim your seat" or any such thing I just stop reading. And it's getting to the point now where the new thing is to refuse to offer a replay. I wonder if we're forgetting sometimes that we're marketing to people many of whom have full time jobs. I just got a link for something I'm really interested in, and there's no way for me to find out more about it without sitting through a 30 minute video. The average webinar is at least an hour long and I'm going in knowing in advance that it's an hour long sales letter. Can I just read what you're offering and buy it? I have a job, man! I'm not available at 11 am for your live webinar and I don't want to sit through your 45 minute video to find out you're charging $200 bucks. Ok. I'm done. I'm late for work.