57 replies
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it. - WC Fields

"Success seems like failure 99% of the way..."


So how do you know when to give up?

Hi all, I'm fairly new to posting on this forum, but I have been reading here and being involved in internet marketing for around 18 months.

I guess I have the same story as most newbies, I've spent a great deal of time and money buying and reading every latest and greatest "brand new secret method that made me $9,454,235 in just 3 minutes" product that the "gurus" email me every few hours.

I've spent around 40 hours a week (I also have a full time job) working on building online real estate. So far things don't seem to be going to plan...

I have 6 sites built for adsense. I carefully researched each to find high traffic (wordtracker: 200+ searches, google adwords tool 5,000+ searches) high bid phrases (adwords bids between $8 - $30), built and promoted sites that rank well in search engines (a couple are #1 in google, all are top 5).

These sites now earn me an average of $0.15c per day.

I have also built sites to promote affiliate products. The latest site is based on a phrase directly related to a clickbank product which apparently converts between 5-10%. Wordtracker gives the number of searches for this phrase as around 1500.

I have promoted this site so that it's ranking #1 and #2 in google for that phrase (without quotes) and it's now receiving an average of 50 visitors a day. Of the 350 visitors in the last week, I have sent around 150 to the product sales page. Of these 150 target visitors, ZERO made a purchase.

The numbers never seems to add up!?! :confused:

In total, from 18 months of learning, developing and marketing, I have made $491.23c. Not the best financial return on investment, but I have learnt a lot. Or so I thought! I thought I knew how to research niches and keywords, I know how to rank sites in Google, I know how to send targeted traffic to sales pages, but I still don't know how to make money!

I believe the problem lies in one simple fact. In all this time I have been looking for a "quick fix". I've just been trying to earn enough from the internet to cover my living expenses. I've been thinking about me. Not the customer. So far I have not tried to setup a more long term plan, a more responsible business, to "add value", and to help others.

Ironic really, as the plan once I'd covered my expenses was to use the time to setup a business to truly help people. I just thought I had to help myself and solve my financial problems first.

I guess the lesson might be that there is no short cut, and the most important factor is the reason why you do whatever you do. So, a quick survey...

What do you think should be the core values of a business?

Thanks for reading this long post (I guess you didn't know when to give up )

Any and all responses are appreciated!

Adam
#fail #fail… #newbies
  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    I'm with you on that.

    I don't want to tell you that it is not possible to make a lot of money really fast, but surely if it were really easy, then none of us would be too worried about making more money, because we would already have lots of money.

    But what can really sell in a place like this is the IDEA that making money is fast and easy. Creating the belief that all you have to do is buy a product and follow a few easy steps, and you'll have money can be EXTREMELY appealing. But as you think about buying something that MIGHT make you money, it is easy to start to dream. There is nothing wrong with dreaming, but it is important to recognize that often we are an buying idea or a tool, and that fulfilling the dream may take time and effort, and the money may not arrive quickly.

    I think sometimes people can get really excited about an idea, only to be let down when the time frame is much longer than expected, and the money flow is either slower than expected, or actually in the red for quite some time.

    To make things even more complicated, sometimes people have little or no experience running a business of their own, and mistakes are bound to happen. Some of those mistakes may prove costly.

    For me, everything I mentioned above happened to me, and looking back, I am so glad that it did, because it gave me insight into so much that I can now apply to running my business and helping others too. I was in the red or break even for 2-3 years. It took much longer than expected. I didn't know how to run a business, and made many mistakes early on.

    But what I never tried to do was HURRY the business forward. There were lots of times where I delayed a product release, or chose not to spend money because I wasn't sure I could afford it, or totally scrapped something that wasn't working and took a loss. I spent hours and hours posting on forums, and submitting to directories, and doing lots of boring little stuff.

    Over time, things got much easier. I was able to have a better feeling for what a good product needed. I now have a clearer understanding about budgeting advertising and development costs. I have people helping me, and I have developed processes for doing things. And I have a STRONG customer base (that took a long time to build).

    None of this came to me all at once. It took time, hard work, careful study, and of course, money, that I earned as my business has grown.

    I just want to encourage people to not lose sight of their dreams, yet take an approach this is smart, and involves logical steps forward. It may take a little longer than you like, but if you spend more time developing your plan, and doing all the necessary small but important details, you'll start to see a plan that has a strong likelihood of success, and a plan that is impervious to small setbacks.

    I hope this will be helpful to some of you who are getting started, or who had some early setbacks. Being successful ABSOLUTELY is possible, and you have to believe in yourself, but don't get discouraged if it takes a little longer, and by all means study what others are doing and make small steps forward, and in time you will see you have come a long way.
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  • Profile picture of the author indigo
    Originally Posted by atdavidson View Post

    What do you think should be the core values of a business?
    I think the main problem of newbies is that they don't consider IM as BUSINESS. If you wish to succeed in internet or affiliate marketing you must consider it as business, as a serious job. They don't know the cold truth: there will be a lot of hard work, many mistakes, many days with zero sales. But if they are serious about it and if they will continuously develop products, niches, channels, and sites step-by-step then they will definitely succeed ... Maybe not in the first try yet
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    • Profile picture of the author Adrian Cooper
      Originally Posted by indigo View Post

      I think the main problem of newbies is that they don't consider IM as BUSINESS. If you wish to succeed in internet or affiliate marketing you must consider it as business, as a serious job. They don't know the cold truth: there will be a lot of hard work, many mistakes, many days with zero sales. But if they are serious about it and if they will continuously develop products, niches, channels, and sites step-by-step then they will definitely succeed ... Maybe not in the first try yet
      That is precisely it.

      The disciplines required for bricks and mortar business enforce a proper business plan and execution or fail - often not even get started.

      Failing to plan is planing to fail.

      A common reason for failure is expecting too much, too soon, and when it does not happen buying a few more "products".

      Plan on building up your business steadily over 12 months to an income where you can leave the day job, and keep building the business.

      That's it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
    Hi Adam,

    This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth...

    Far too many folks who get on the IM bandwagon are in denial.

    They are fooling themselves about a lot of aspects of IM, but the main delusion is the lack of understanding that the core of IM is *MARKETING*.

    Yes, the internet is involved, but it is still a 'sales' vocation. If anyone tries IM with the thoughts that the money is easy, you just need a few web properties, it only takes a few hours a day, etc, etc, and they fail to understand the marketing side of the equation, they are in for a long haul.

    IM is a sales position or job. Plain and simple. You can learn to build websites, learn to write copy, learn to create graphics, and host of other skills, but in order to get people to trade you money for what you know or do you need to be able to 'market' or sell your output.

    Believe it or not, a lot of folks who get into IM whould NEVER take a sales position in any industry.

    WHY?

    Because the thought of having to become a salesperson is the last thing they would ever want to think about.

    Whether they fear it, detest it, look down on it, or whatever, they flat out don't see the value in salesmanship as a craft or a vocation. And they certainly don't fancy themselves as a salesperson.

    Too many newbies sit around mentally masterbating that IM is a way to make huge sums of money without the need get involved in what they percieve as an ugly profession. Namely salesmanship.

    So they try the latest *Make Money In Your PJs* gimmic that caters to their lack of understanding that the second word in IM is Marketing (I think many believe it is Money), and hope to make money in an arena that demands sales skills to be successful.

    In fact, some of these folks have no clue about the 'behind the scenes' activities the so called 'gurus' participate in and believe that those folks make their fortunes sitting in front of a computer screen in their birthday suit. They never see or imagine how much salesmanship is involved in their success (the gurus).

    And while it is true that you can make money with Adsense, Affiliate Marketing, CPAs and the like, if your 'marketing' skills are not up to par you will end up with dismal results at best.

    Here's a little test that most newbies can do to save themselves months or perhaps years of struggling and hundreds or thousands of dollars wasted...

    The next time you see a sales position advertised in your area selling a legitimate product or service you are familiar with, ask yourself "Would I want to take a stab at that position?"

    If the answer is NO, then that moment would be a good time for some serious reflection on WHY you wouldn't want to sell that product or service.

    Take a look at how you answered that question and if you found more reasons why you couldn't sell it...the market sucks, it takes too much work, nobody will buy that, I hate talking to people, this is not a good time, etc, etc, then you found reasons or beliefs on why you could make money selling it, then here's a little tip from Ol' KJ...

    You're not cut out to make any real money on the internet, either.

    They call it Internet Marketing for a reason. It's MARKETING. The internet is only the vehicle not the substance. If MARKETING doesn't make your juices flow, well don't feel bad. 95% of the population feels that way so you're in good company.

    Just don't kid yourself that you'll make a fortune in marketing because it has the word internet in front of it and you like computers. Ain't gonna happen no matter how many magic bullets you put in the gun.

    You can't fool life...

    KJ
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    • Profile picture of the author kamilrazak
      My problem before was that I wanted everything to be perfect every time I started a campaign. So, I went ahead and bought a lot of guides which actually teaches the same thing. I was searching that one secret that could make me a lot of money in a short but finally realized that the true secret was to take action and tweak it along the way. Sadly that it took me thousands of dollars before I realized this.

      The moral of this story is just to take action and apply what we have learned.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mawardee(A)
        Originally Posted by kamilrazak View Post

        My problem before was that I wanted everything to be perfect every time I started a campaign. So, I went ahead and bought a lot of guides which actually teaches the same thing. I was searching that one secret that could make me a lot of money in a short but finally realized that the true secret was to take action and tweak it along the way. Sadly that it took me thousands of dollars before I realized this.

        The moral of this story is just to take action and apply what we have learned.
        Yes, that's true.

        When I was like you, I really take action.
        It's nice even you don't earn a lot.
        But it's worth your knowledge & what you buy.

        Every success comes from your first earning.
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        • Profile picture of the author MJ Schaefer
          It is pretty easy to make money online if your head is screwed on straight. To that extent, I don't see it as too far removed from quitting smoking or losing weight.

          Set up a one page sales letter. Give people something they need. Point traffic at it.

          Then spend months perfecting that. Split test the sales letter, invest more money in traffic generation etc.

          If you give people something they need, they will pay for it. Master one traffic method, and you will be making cash every day.

          I know that internet marketing is very nuanced, but the basic principles are very simple. The most difficult part is having that kind of clarity in your mind -- and it is information overload that topples most newbies.
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          • Profile picture of the author USEO
            Originally Posted by Redbeard View Post

            It is pretty easy to make money online if your head is screwed on straight. To that extent, I don't see it as too far removed from quitting smoking or losing weight.

            Set up a one page sales letter. Give people something they need. Point traffic at it.

            Then spend months perfecting that. Split test the sales letter, invest more money in traffic generation etc.

            If you give people something they need, they will pay for it. Master one traffic method, and you will be making cash every day.

            I know that internet marketing is very nuanced, but the basic principles are very simple. The most difficult part is having that kind of clarity in your mind -- and it is information overload that topples most newbies.
            He's right - read it again.

            CK.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ron.
            Redbeard,

            are there any specific traffic methods that you would recommend?
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            "Perseverance is a great element of success. If you only knock long enough and loud enough at the gate, you are sure to wake up somebody"
            -Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
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          • Profile picture of the author knucks2
            That is very good advice. So simple but real.

            Joe
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    • Profile picture of the author Zack Lim
      Hi KJ,

      I agree with you 100%.

      Ultimately, we are in the business of marketing our own business

      Zack
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      FREE Affiliate Marketing Mini Course Reveals The Fastest And Honest Way To Make Your First $1000 Online

      Click Here To Get FREE Instant Access

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    • Profile picture of the author Hasan Barbary
      @ Killer Joe,

      I might have to print this out, frame it, and hang it on my wall. Beautiful, brutal, honesty.

      I started out selling credit card insurance as an 18-yr-old telemarketer in 1986, so I KNOW what the "M" in IM stands for. I also happen to be a techie, but the sad truth is my friends were always WAY more impressed with my geek skills than my sales ability ~ guess which one makes me more money?
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      • Profile picture of the author jitendrakbharai
        Hi

        The hardest part to realize is that failure is as exciting to watch and experience as success provided the effort is genuine.

        If you make a genuine effort then each failure is nothing but a stepping stone to success.A great example is Abraham Lincoln.He practically lost all elections before he won the presidential election and went on to become one of the most famous president in US history.

        After all failure is nothing but "deferred success".

        jitendra
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  • Profile picture of the author MJ Schaefer
    Article marketing if you're broke. PPC if you're not.
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    • Profile picture of the author JoshuaG
      I think you have to keep in mind that this forum caters to a specific audience and attracts like minded people.

      The most common things I hear around here are things like:
      "You have to provide your customer value"
      "You make money by helping others"
      "You have to treat IM like a business"

      The truth is that this is just what these people believe. I wouldn't be surprised if SOME of the people saying those things had little to any experience with them. There are many reasons why someone makes a post.

      I'm a prime example of what is opposite to you. I made 1 adsense site that doesnt even target high paying keywords and its making decient money.

      I have 2 pages promoting affiliate products. Both of which make sales regularly.

      I have conned people into filling leads using email scams.

      I've always hated salesmen, and never considered IM to be anything more then a means of paying my bills.

      But Im having success.

      IM is as much a system of psyhcology and numbers as it is a virtuous sales pitches. Anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorent to the facts.
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      • Profile picture of the author StageREM
        I know it has been said before, but some people enter IM thinking this is going to be "easy" money...maybe every once in a while someone gets a break and makes some "quick" money but I think we all know IM takes a lot of trial and error and a willingness to put in the time and some good advice resulting from a well thought out question.
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        • Profile picture of the author jitendrakbharai
          Hello,

          What works for one may not work for all.Experimentation is the key.Be a little patient and be prepared to learn

          Effort usually pays in the long run.

          jitendra
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          • Profile picture of the author atdavidson
            Wow. Everytime I post on this forum I am amazed at the speed and quality of information in the responses. It's wonderful how helpful people can be!

            What I really like is the different philosophies that people have developed based on what has worked for them. For dvduvall and indigo IM is about patient development of a sensible business, killer joe stresses the sales
            aspect, Redbeard point out how simple things really are and Joshua G seems to have won the lotto

            Thank to everyone for their replies, all very interesting points with useful information, it's very helpful to see things from different points of view.

            Whilst I agree with Joshua G that this forum attracts like minded people (perhaps the people who make tons of money with one website on their first attempt share their secrets on another forum - can someone post the url? ). The main reason why people seem to keep saying "you have to provide your customer value" is that it's true. From my experience of IM this forum is filled with more people "doing it" than anywhere else, and they seem to agree on running a responsible business.

            In my ideal world, we would all be "adding value" and trying to helping others (would money be necessary in that society?). I would truly love do produce something that will be valuable to people, but unfortunately I seem to have fallen into the same work vs time trap as most:

            We need money to survive...
            We sell our time for money...
            We have no time to develop alternative income...
            We need money to survive...
            We sell our time for money...


            To quote Monty Python's Meaning of Life:

            "What we've come up with can be reduced to two fundamental concepts. One: People aren't wearing enough hats. Two: Matter is energy. In the universe there are many energy fields which we cannot normally perceive. Some energies have a spiritual source which act upon a person's soul. However, this "soul" does not exist ab initio as orthodox Christianity teaches; it has to be brought into existence by a process of guided self-observation. However, this is rarely achieved owing to man's unique ability to be distracted from spiritual matters by everyday trivia."
            "What was that about hats again?"


            For me at the moment, the dream is travel (It rains a lot in England ). I'm not looking for any crazy "get rich quick" schemes, earning millions each month, or to only work one hour each year. I'm just after a method to cover my modest living expenses, but working where and when I choose. I'm happy to work longer hours than my current job, for less money, I would just like freedom.

            Unfortunately as dvduval pointed out, selling the idea that this is easy works, and newbies get stuck with information overload, or the belief they can succeed with just 1 adsense website (any advice Joshua G?), but, to quote killer joe "you can't fool life".

            I guess the answer is patience, more learning (like sticking to Redbeard's principles) and truly trying to help people. Which is great, because that's what I've always wanted to do anyway.
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            • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
              Originally Posted by atdavidson View Post


              I guess the answer is patience, more learning (like sticking to Redbeard's principles) and truly trying to help people. Which is great, because that's what I've always wanted to do anyway.

              Hello.

              Let me be blunt with you and add my thoughts.

              Firstly, you said "I guess".

              Being completely blunt with you, this means you are still not sure.

              Please reread the posts in this thread, especially the answer by Killer Joe.

              Patience is not the answer either.

              You have to present enough people with something they are interested in that they are willing to buy. Then you scale this up until it becomes viable.

              Everything else is just adjusting it one way or the other etc.

              Adsense sites are not the way to build a business. I'm sorry but that is the truth. Sure they may bring in a few hundred dollars or even ten thousand but that is still not worth it in my opinion.

              Decide what you can sell, that people are willing to pay money for and get on with it.

              If you are getting decent traffic to your existing sites then find a way to cenvert some of it into sales. Let adsense be the thing that helps pay for your hosting fees or whatever.

              Forget the 4 hour work week bollocks. Forget "setting and forgetting".

              Before you write one more page, take a step back and honestly ask yourself whether what you have really done so far would entice people to take out their wallets and buy something.

              If not, then that is your first job.

              Don't believe the bull that IM is easy.

              Anyone can cut open someone's skull, poke around and stitch it back up again. But that doesn't make you a brain surgeon.

              I'm sure you have heard it said many times that "you have to focus" to succeed.

              That is indeed true, but it is only the first half of the full sentence.

              It should say:

              YOU HAVE TO FOCUS ON THE RIGHT THINGS.

              That also then opens the door to further investigation, because then you obviously have to find out what the right things are in relation to your niches etc.

              So start!

              Cheers,
              Sam
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              • Profile picture of the author Expert-World
                Many newbies do not realise just how much there is to learn in the IM field.

                There is a careful balance between doing and learning.

                If you ask any of the top earners, they will tell you that they keep learning from others. They do spend money on seminars and coaching.

                But, you need to do what you've learnt - not just learn more.

                CCP can be very expensive to make mistakes with, so can outsourcing all your work to others. First learn it and do it yourself. Then learn the quick ways to do it yourself. Then maybe outsource some of it.

                As someone else said - IM is a business and you have to invest the time to learn and then put that into practice.

                If you have bought a course or training program and it "didn't work" take another look at the matterials - be honest. Did you really do what they taught ?
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                • Profile picture of the author atdavidson
                  Thanks to everyone for their opinions, this thread is full of some really great advice. I have learnt a great deal about business and marketing from the posts here, and I'm glad people have been kind enough to be brutally honest and tell it like it is!

                  The issue that I (and I expect most newbies) find difficult has been touched upon a few times in this thread, Ken Troyer mentioned it in his list "5.) Do what you love....and the money will follow" and Nick Brighton stated it implicitly "find a path in life that they enjoy. Money is secondary".

                  However, as MKons said "You must be comfortable financially. Learning (testing) takes time AND costs money". The vast majority of us dream of doing jobs we enjoy ("Find a job you love and you will never work a day in your life" - Confucius), but we must achieve financial stability first. As Maslow proposed in his hierarchy of needs, a person will not look for frivolous enjoyment while they are starving!

                  I have always taken action on every course I purchased. None of them have ever produced viable results. The last "guru" I purchased a monthly subscription course from promised $100 per day within 3 months. After 6 months (spending 8 hours a day) following his instructions to the letter I had made a grand total of $22.34. When I asked for further assistance the "guru" admitted that his promise was "just sales fluff" and refunded my subscription.

                  I don't believe IM is easy. I agree completely with the majority of advice on this thread, that it takes time, research and skills to build a solid respectable business, and there is some great advice here for that.
                  But I expect many newbies aren't trying to build such a business (at least not at this stage). I'm not, I'm just trying to find a way to earn $10 per hour so that I can pay for rent and food. Once the foundations are secured then I can build a lifestyle dedicated to providing value and helping others.

                  So here's the follow up question:

                  In order to make any money online (even as little as $400 per week) is it essential to passionately pursue an online business? Must you provide value and build a business based on something you love, something you believe in, that is based on considered, ethical core values?
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            • Profile picture of the author Viktoria
              This is my first day on warrior forum. What an excellent resource tool this is. This thread is purely refreshing to read. I truly appreciate everyone's responses.

              This thread should be in the disclaimer of any product a newbie purchases that has to do with IM.

              atdavidson thanks for starting the thread

              Ron thanks for your post. So let's change the focus. This question is for everyone. Rather than talk about why newbies fail. Lets talk about how and why people succeed in IM. Just to refresh.

              Everyone should read Killer Joe's first post in this thread where he brutally identifies what IM really is.

              Question: How did you become successful in IM?
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  • Profile picture of the author zulfnore
    I guess I have the same story as most newbies, I've spent a great deal of time and money buying and reading every latest and greatest "brand new secret method that made me $9,454,235 in just 3 minutes" product that the "gurus" email me every few hours.
    Information Overload Syndrome is the #1 reason why newbies fail along with the misconception that somehow out there there is a "Quick Fix" or "Magic Secret" to make it all happen overnight.

    Knowledge + Plan + Action + Perseverance + WORK = Success!
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  • Profile picture of the author vinman
    The basic thing about lot of newbies is that they want to master all before starting a business. This results in acquiring information overload and in the end they are doing everything halfway. Expecting quick result is another drawback with the newbies.

    Anyone can't succeed without facing failures and success is a process. The process time depends on the methods you are employing. Success has no destination. If you have accomplished one goal, set another one and this only keeps you moving up the success ladder.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Troyer
    I believe the problem lies in one simple fact. In all this time I have been looking for a "quick fix". I've just been trying to earn enough from the internet to cover my living expenses. I've been thinking about me. Not the customer. So far I have not tried to setup a more long term plan, a more responsible business, to "add value", and to help others.
    Um,

    I think you just answered your question here.

    As for the core value of business?

    I'd put it in this order.

    1.) Be different...unique. Go off the beaten path.
    2.) Create a business plan, have it evaluated by someone experienced...then you'll know if it is worth sticking with it.
    3.) Get a partner...one tech person, one marketing person. (depends on your expertise)
    4.) Find a "want"....and fulfill that desire in a market.
    5.) Do what you love....and the money will follow.
    6.) Be entertaining...people love to be entertained, and will spend lots of money to do it.

    ....and remember, I put them in order of importance.

    Cheers,
    Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author WfGraphicsGuy
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author stiznef
      Hey There,

      I'm a 14 month old newbie myself. I certainly thought that I would be further along by now. So much information from so many sources. It really can be tough to know whom to listen to. Many of the gurus have a difference of opinion and so the newbie has to trust their own gut in determining whom to listen to.

      Having said that. Here's what I've found.

      PPC - Stay the hell clear until you get it because you will lose your shorts if you don't know what you are doing. I lost about 5 pairs of shorts myself and I still don't get it.

      Article marketing - With EZA it proves to get traffic again and again. Sometimes the articles don't stay up, but just keep writing and you will get traffic. Read as many posts as you can from Steven Wagen on this.

      Doing what you love - I don't know about this. Dan Kennedy in one of his books says that thinking you can just do what you love and make a ton of money is ridiculous. You have to find active markets and get yourself in the middle of the flow of money. That makes more sense to me.

      SEO - Back linking - article marketing - linkvana - other linking services etc. There is a lot to learn. I think it's important to just do something to get more traffic to your site "daily".

      Proper format - If you are driving traffic to your site and not converting then something needs to be tweaked on your landing page. When you bought all of your courses. You were the right person on the right page at the right time and so you made the purchase. If you are getting folks right to your affiliate sales page and not converting, then you are getting the wrong people to the site. I get the feeling that with your 18 months of study, you already know this stuff.

      A good online friend of mine once told me that the difference between making a little bit of money online and a ton of money online is very small. It's those small tweaks to your site or lense or landing page that really makes the difference. I get the feeling that's where a lot of newbies like you and me get caught. Do the initial work, building sites, writing articles, etc. Then when we don't get PAID we think this may not work. The big money players I think look at this point as "just the beginning". Now it's time to figure out how to get our basically completed sites monetized and making money.

      I'm with you. I think now is the time for you to take all that you have done and start tweaking. You could be just 2 months out from some serious money rolling in. You've been taking action. Now make your adjustments.

      I hope these words helped you out in some way, and I'll be looking forward to hearing about your progress and success.

      Stiz
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      • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
        Newbise fail for many reasons.

        Mainly because of lack of information when they need to do something.

        The best example I can think of is build a list, and all the guides for building a list.

        I've read a few and not one of them has spelled it out in plain enough english for newbies to make a succesful subscribers campaign.
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        • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
          Originally Posted by Killer Joe View Post

          Hi Adam,

          This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth...

          Far too many folks who get on the IM bandwagon are in denial.

          They are fooling themselves about a lot of aspects of IM, but the main delusion is the lack of understanding that the core of IM is *MARKETING*.

          Yes, the internet is involved, but it is still a 'sales' vocation. If anyone tries IM with the thoughts that the money is easy, you just need a few web properties, it only takes a few hours a day, etc, etc, and they fail to understand the marketing side of the equation, they are in for a long haul.

          IM is a sales position or job. Plain and simple. You can learn to build websites, learn to write copy, learn to create graphics, and host of other skills, but in order to get people to trade you money for what you know or do you need to be able to 'market' or sell your output.

          Believe it or not, a lot of folks who get into IM whould NEVER take a sales position in any industry.

          WHY?

          Because the thought of having to become a salesperson is the last thing they would ever want to think about.

          Whether they fear it, detest it, look down on it, or whatever, they flat out don't see the value in salesmanship as a craft or a vocation. And they certainly don't fancy themselves as a salesperson.

          Too many newbies sit around mentally masterbating that IM is a way to make huge sums of money without the need get involved in what they percieve as an ugly profession. Namely salesmanship.

          So they try the latest *Make Money In Your PJs* gimmic that caters to their lack of understanding that the second word in IM is Marketing (I think many believe it is Money), and hope to make money in an arena that demands sales skills to be successful.

          In fact, some of these folks have no clue about the 'behind the scenes' activities the so called 'gurus' participate in and believe that those folks make their fortunes sitting in front of a computer screen in their birthday suit. They never see or imagine how much salesmanship is involved in their success (the gurus).

          And while it is true that you can make money with Adsense, Affiliate Marketing, CPAs and the like, if your 'marketing' skills are not up to par you will end up with dismal results at best.

          Here's a little test that most newbies can do to save themselves months or perhaps years of struggling and hundreds or thousands of dollars wasted...

          The next time you see a sales position advertised in your area selling a legitimate product or service you are familiar with, ask yourself "Would I want to take a stab at that position?"

          If the answer is NO, then that moment would be a good time for some serious reflection on WHY you wouldn't want to sell that product or service.

          Take a look at how you answered that question and if you found more reasons why you couldn't sell it...the market sucks, it takes too much work, nobody will buy that, I hate talking to people, this is not a good time, etc, etc, then you found reasons or beliefs on why you could make money selling it, then here's a little tip from Ol' KJ...

          You're not cut out to make any real money on the internet, either.

          They call it Internet Marketing for a reason. It's MARKETING. The internet is only the vehicle not the substance. If MARKETING doesn't make your juices flow, well don't feel bad. 95% of the population feels that way so you're in good company.

          Just don't kid yourself that you'll make a fortune in marketing because it has the word internet in front of it and you like computers. Ain't gonna happen no matter how many magic bullets you put in the gun.

          You can't fool life...

          KJ
          My god, finally somebody telling it like it is. Thank you for reading my mind and saving me the time of having to post the same message.

          Sad and true - many folks are suckered into an irresistable dream that goes against their own true desires, skills and intentions.

          And they blame it on the products, the lack of information...the weather.

          When really, they just need to find a path in life that they enjoy. Money is secondary, and without marketing skills or desire to live and breathe marketing and business ownership, then you're dust in this game.

          Of course, the small dashes of income give hope, but without marketing and business in your blood, those dashes of income will always remain just that - distant glimmers of money that never really quench your real destiny in life.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    you're 100% on the right track. AND: You already made some money and you tried and try methods. The MAJORITY of them might fail, this might not even be a surprising.

    There is people who say its very important to have an exact plan and follow this plan consistently. This is true.

    But its also true that IM also is a constant game of trial/error and weeding out duds from whatever makes money. Every "failure" is a step towards success because you are learning. You are learning what works and what doesn't.

    Things can work for you but not for others - and others can make a killing with this or that method/niche...but you/me wont. It's perfectly normal, i see it all the time.
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  • Profile picture of the author MKons
    Originally Posted by atdavidson View Post

    I guess the lesson might be that there is no short cut
    All you need to be a success --

    1. Focus. Stop trying to do everything, stop jumping from one method to another. Pick a traffic source, choose a niche and work at it until you start making money.

    I truly believe that *almost* every product/niche is worth trying, and testing does not have to be expensive. Just pick one and make it work (it can take months).

    2. You must be comfortable financially. Learning (testing) takes time AND costs money. If you treat Internet Marketing as your "last hope" and you're barely getting by -- go out and get a job, save up some money, get yourself back on track and then come back to IM.

    I see way too many people spending their last money on the latest WSO or a course/coaching... Bad, bad idea.

    3. This is very important. Get a group of friends or like-minded people together and share ideas, brainstorm, discuss.

    Very few people are going to help you on an open forum like this (or any other IM forum), and for every helpful reply you'll get at least 5 others pushing their latest "make 10k a month in 30 days - no work required" WSO and a bunch of people looking to steal/copy what you are doing.

    4. Stop buying WSOs. Unless you're 100% certain that a WSO contains valuable information (relevant to what you are working on at the time). A good rule is to completely ignore every WSO that has "make xxxx.xx in x-xx days, guaranteed" in the title (flame on, I don't care).
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  • Profile picture of the author MJ Schaefer
    Excellent post, MKons. Right on the money.
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    • Profile picture of the author edwellman
      I think the reason most newbies fail is information overload + inaction.

      They are sold this dream that they can make money in their underpants for half an hour's work a day, so they keep searching for it. They discover that there are countless ways of making money online, so they believe they have to learn every single one of them. Jack of all trades, master of none.

      I know I find that I enjoy reading about IM more than I do actually doing anything about it, but I'm slowly climbing out of that pit.

      I've been learning this for nearly 2 years now, and I've made just over $550. Not fantastic.

      The key is to find a method you'll enjoy, and stick to it. Plan everything you do and track your results.

      But ultimately I think the most reliable method is to build a list - be very generous to the people on your list and they will reward you. Then you won't be able to look back and think 'if only I had been building a list this whole time...'
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      • "Success seems like failure 99% of the way..."

        So how do you know when to give up?

        You never do. Keep learning, keep adjusting but more importantly, keep taking action.

        There were some really good posts in this thread. One of the better ones I've read here in awhile.

        The easiest way to avoid a good percentage of the learning curve is to hire a coach/mentor from the very beginning. Just make sure that person makes themselves available to you in more than just a game of email tag. Live coaching is the best and quickest way to succeed.

        Good luck to all here...
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        • Profile picture of the author MKons
          Originally Posted by crazyinternetdude View Post


          The easiest way to avoid a good percentage of the learning curve is to hire a coach/mentor from the very beginning. Just make sure that person makes themselves available to you in more than just a game of email tag. Live coaching is the best and quickest way to succeed.
          heh, live coaching? unless you personally know someone, I can't imagine a successful marketer coaching you 1-1 for less than $50/hour.
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      • Profile picture of the author shirland
        Originally Posted by edwellman View Post

        I think the reason most newbies fail is information overload + inaction.

        They are sold this dream that they can make money in their underpants for half an hour's work a day, so they keep searching for it. They discover that there are countless ways of making money online, so they believe they have to learn every single one of them. Jack of all trades, master of none.

        I know I find that I enjoy reading about IM more than I do actually doing anything about it, but I'm slowly climbing out of that pit.

        I've been learning this for nearly 2 years now, and I've made just over $550. Not fantastic.

        The key is to find a method you'll enjoy, and stick to it. Plan everything you do and track your results.

        But ultimately I think the most reliable method is to build a list - be very generous to the people on your list and they will reward you. Then you won't be able to look back and think 'if only I had been building a list this whole time...'

        I agree with you there many people believe that working from home is easy. It takes discipline, commitment and persistence. I know people who make decisions to join the latest online business and quickly scrap it when success does not come quickly. They could have been three feet away from the gold, but did not persist. IM is simple but it is not easy. The system in place is simple to follow, but it takes a lot more to be successful.
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  • Profile picture of the author spoink101
    Just like any other business, you should start with all hard work. This is the only stepping stone to make you reach the top or to succeed. Most of the times, newbies intend to quit because they think they fail but they are in fact, in the process of going through the top.
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  • Profile picture of the author ECoughlin
    I totally agree with Sam! It's all about the "Benjamin's". If they aren't buying anything, it's not a business.

    I wasted the first 3 3/4 years of my IM "career" chasing traffic instead of learning how to make money online.

    I finally got it, jettisoned the business model I started out with and started over. I feel like I've gotten farther in the last 3 months than the whole previous years in IM.

    But I don't look at that time I spent as a waste. I will be able to use what I've learned from experience as I move forward. And I'll also be able to help others, too. That's something I want to do because for the right people, this is a great business with a lot of potential.

    Just be realistic, as Sam said, and if you really love what you're doing, don't give up!
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  • I think that people get too caught up in chasing the "next big thing."

    Next big money making technique, next big niche, next big product, etc...

    Really, I think the most important thing is to:

    1) Find a niche
    2) Find high paying/converting products in that niche
    3) Create money pages (landing pages)
    4) Monetize those suckers (ads, cpa, affiliate offers, whatever)
    5) Get traffic to that page, either free (social bookmarking) or paid (ppc, ezines, whatever)

    Once that page has been tweaked properly and is making you a consistent amount of dough, then move onto something else and monetize it.

    It's called a "continuous profit cycle" and it's one of the best models.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron.
      Why newbies fail can not be answered in one post or 1000 posts. It's all based on each person's thought's, circumstances and a whole bunch of other things.


      But i will say, it's forums like these that can cause a newbie to fail. If you ask one question you'll get 25 different answers and as a newbie you have no idea what's right or what's right for you. Also, some people just flat out lie about their "success" w/MMO.




      This is my favorite post. Very simply. No philosophy involved. Just a nice simple game plan. Just fill in the blanks.


      Originally Posted by gurucrusher View Post

      I think that people get too caught up in chasing the "next big thing."

      Next big money making technique, next big niche, next big product, etc...

      Really, I think the most important thing is to:

      1) Find a niche
      2) Find high paying/converting products in that niche
      3) Create money pages (landing pages)
      4) Monetize those suckers (ads, cpa, affiliate offers, whatever)
      5) Get traffic to that page, either free (social bookmarking) or paid (ppc, ezines, whatever)

      Once that page has been tweaked properly and is making you a consistent amount of dough, then move onto something else and monetize it.

      It's called a "continuous profit cycle" and it's one of the best models.
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      • Profile picture of the author gianne2705
        Being newbie is the hardest part because you don't even know where to start and how.The key is here continue to search and learn things.Don't give up and work hard.
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  • Profile picture of the author macD231
    Hey man thats a nice post to have. I am a newbie probably this is my 4th post and I got this interesting and helpful thread. Nice for me and worthy for me at the same time.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikebasset
    I Think a lot of newbies fail because of less knowledge & experience in the area of business.With more knowledge,
    comes confidence and with confidence comes better vision, decision making and whole lot others..which all
    boils down to making more money.But one thing should be clear,that business online should first address
    adding values to peoples lives and money will start flowing (either thr'adsense,chitika,affiliates or monthly
    subscriptions)..so any newbie..think about adding value,making a difference
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  • Profile picture of the author montero
    Here's a pdf by Dan Kennedy on the subject of "Why People Fail"--courtesy of Perry Marshall.

    https://m171.infusionsoft.com/link/3f280aeac60/7270e0
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  • Profile picture of the author ObsidianKnight
    I tihnk your looking at it from the wrond perspective.

    EVERYONE FAILS!

    The difference is how we DEAL with those failures. The age old story of Thomas Edison is still the best.

    When Thomas Edison was interviewed by a young reporter who boldly asked Mr. Edison if he felt like a failure and if he thought he should just give up by now. Perplexed, Edison replied, "Young man, why would I feel like a failure? And why would I ever give up? I now know definitively over 9,000 ways that an electric light bulb will not work. Success is almost in my grasp." And shortly after that, and over 10,000 attempts, Edison invented the light bulb.

    Edison believed "there is no such thing as failure, only feedback"

    We all fail at something every single day. I fail to wake up on time. I fail to listen to my GF all the time. I fail to make the bed, etc....

    But I still keep going every morning. One step at a time. Learn from your mistakes and continue to adjust the things you do.

    Do not look upon failure as failure, but instead look upon every single failure as being one step closer to success.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Murphy
    The fact that you're still here and haven't packed it in should tell you something. The only way to TRULY fail is to quit!

    Your story is a very common one...sounds very familiar.

    Would it be safe to say you've hopped around from offer to offer? Or method to method?

    One approach is to pick one system and stick with it until it makes you money but more importantly than that, I'd say to find a hungry group that need a solution, go find the solution and sell it to them.

    I know it's easier said than done but think about it this way...if you listen to people, lots of the time they are complaining about something.

    Online is no different...they're just typing the complaints "I wish I could...", "there has to be an easier way to..." etc.

    Seek and ye shall find man....just DON'T give up!
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  • Profile picture of the author Justin Humphries
    You're almost there!

    Honestly, success is just around the corner. I think you're right on in that it's not about you. If you are only thinking of yourself you may make some money, but you will not make a lot. As others have said you have to give others what they want...give people something that will actually help them...

    I also agree that building a list would be a huge asset for you. With a few sites on the first page of google, you could build a targeted email list quickly.

    Keep on moving forward. Once you break the barrier you are faced with now, you will wonder what took you so long and why it was so hard.
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  • Profile picture of the author PrettyJenny
    There are a lot of quality posts here, i just one to put my 2 cents into this discussion. I think newbies also fail because of confusion, and information overloading. There is just too much information out there, and there are different people called themselves internet marketing gurus and each guru has a different view about internet marketing. Thus when being pulled to different directions, newbies normally get confused, lost and just stay the same.
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  • Profile picture of the author Simone Sleep
    Hi, I am a newbie of 5 months and the best thing I ever did was to get myself a mentor who would guide me through the maze of marketing on the internet. I chose someone who was practising what they were preaching. I am not allowed to do anything without having it critiqued, tried and tested. Takes time but worth making alot of silly mistakes.

    Having a mentor they take you thru developing your business plan, goal setting, and to set up a default diary to make sure your activities produce money not losing money. It is the quickest and easiest way to do any business when you have a mentor. They can see your problems quicker than yourself. A wise investment to bring these people on board to help you with your new business adventure.

    Hope this helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author bestIMtools
    Newbies fail when they quit too quickly. It takes time, effort, and determination to succeed and a lot of people would rather be watching reality TV than treating their online biz like a real biz.
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  • Profile picture of the author Viktor Bebel
    I am newbie and trying to learn...this is good post. I am so glad I found this forum. The only thing...now I go to bed at 2 AM......
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  • Thank goodness I'm not the only one! I've been at this for 11 months and have yet to have a $10 day.

    I don't know why I've failed. Today AdSense counts over 1,500 impressions and no clicks -- NOT ONE. How can that possibly be?

    I feel like such a loser.
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  • The core values of a business? Well, not to sound too fague about the answer...but... I would say that would revolve a lot around what type of business you are running. Of course, some values I think hold steady no matter what, which are actually the simple values that you hold as a person. Honor, integrity, and honesty. Try to be true to those you serve, and you will get that truth back from them. 200 years and the golden rule is still at the heart of all things... even business.
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  • Hi Adam, I am also new to this site and I have been studying affiliate marketing for about eight months now. I am just like you in the fact that I have bought so many of these so called get rich quick programs that it is not even funny. I absolutely think you are now on the right track. In all of my studying and reading the one thing that keeps consistently popping up in what I consider to be legitimate programs is the ability to add value and to have a genuine concern for providing that value to your potential customers. You need to establish a relationship with your list. It is when you do this you gain their loyalty and they see you as not just someone trying to sell them something. I hope this helps! Miriamhigg
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  • Profile picture of the author Josef_Benjamin
    Some of the answers here to your fustration has been answered from each person's perspective...but it's important that you understand this.

    My opinion, or anybody elses here will ultimately influence the way you carry out your
    actions on a day to day basis.

    If I were to tell you that the key to my succes (personally) IS having a MENTALITY of someone who first, DESERVES the money they want to make...you'd think I was full of shit and your next question could be, "No really, whats your secret?"

    People self-sabatoge themselves out of success and don't know they are doing it.

    For example. I just made a quick $200 today from actions I took about a week ago that led up to the money that would take me 35-40 hours at a regular job to make...took me less than 20 minutes to set it up.

    My mentality made this possible.

    I SAW the opportunity most people simply don't or CAN'T see, and I ACT on the opportunity because in my minds eye, I SEE the item I want to be sold as already SOLD...there is also a spiritual influence that helps me make my decisions.
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