Do You Think It Is Fair That the Forum Deletes Your Threads Without Even Giving a Backup?

10 years ago

You are the only one.

The mods work on a volunteer basis and delete dozens, if not hundreds, of posts per day. If they got into the habit of doling out explanations every time a post was deleted, they would get nothing done - not to mention having to deal with the arguments that would inevitably ensue over why a post should or shouldn't have been deleted.

This is all covered in the TOS.

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joseph7384

10 years ago

For that to happen, the mods would need a third eye!

Do you really think that they would reward you with a back up for breaking the rules, I think not.

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agmccall 10 years ago

The forum mods here are pretty fair and if something was deleted there is probably a good reason.

So time to move on

al
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- Wealthyclark 10 years ago
  
  Your asking for way too much but if you're up to the task, you can start and maintain a forum of your own and then you would understand why this is easier said than done.
  
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Ravikanth

10 years ago

You guys are replying without reading what I have written.

I never said the forum mods should explain. That is unfair of us to ask the mods whether they are volunteers or employees. I just said they should probably consider having a place for the deleted threads. Something like an archive which can be set to expire within 24 hours. This gives us a chance to back up stuff.

This is how gmail clears trash email. Is n't it?

May be I was unclear in my first post.

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WillR

10 years ago

Originally Posted by raviandkanth

You guys are replying without reading what I have written.

I never said the forum mods should explain. That is unfair of us to ask the mods whether they are volunteers or employees. I just said they should probably consider having a place for the deleted threads. Something like an archive which can be set to expire within 24 hours. This gives us a chance to back up stuff.

This is how gmail clears trash email. Is n't it?

May be I was unclear in my first post.

Some would say the onus is on you to create backups of work you want to keep. The whole forum could drop off the side of the earth tomorrow. Stranger things have happened. Even a 24 hour deleted forum would still give some people an incentive to create spam threads because they could still be viewed by some people for 24 hours. So I don't think that's a great solution. I think just make yur own backup before posting if you are that worried.

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wolfmmiii 10 years ago

Originally Posted by raviandkanth

You guys are replying without reading what I have written.

No, we're not:

Originally Posted by raviandkanth

It may be too much to even contact people to tell them that their thread is deleted. Is it too hard to send a back up to the OP?

As another poster said, why should the mod REWARD you with a "backup" of your post which violated TOS??
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NK

10 years ago

While I think that would be nice, it's not really feasible. Most of the deleted posts and threads are actually spam, so there's no point creating a backup or moving them into a temporary archive.

And when mods start to choose who gets direct deleted and who gets the benefit of a temporary archive, people will start demanding more explanations and justification. There's still the issue of time and effort needed to actually move the post or thread.

In short, it's way too much hassle just for the convenience of a select few.

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Jonathan Mizel

10 years ago

Make a screenshot next time.

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Paul Myers 10 years ago

Jonathan,

Make a screenshot next time.

Giving new meaning to the phrase, "Take a picture. It lasts longer."

Or they could, like, you know, maybe type it in a text editor and save it if it's all that kewl. And stuff.

Paul
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guitarizma

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by raviandkanth

I just lost feedback on my website because the forum deleted the thread where I had the feedback from someone I admire. I had no back up of it and interestingly neither does the forum admin. The google cache they gave me does not have any other posts other than mine.

Sure they have the right to delete it if they think it is against the forum rules. It may be too much to even contact people to tell them that their thread is deleted. Is it too hard to send a back up to the OP?

Or, Am I the only one who thinks this is needed?

They'll send the OP a backup? If you look at the spam threads that get posted every hour, if not every minute, they'd need a whole team and to decide if a thread should receive more "humane" treatment and of course there will be the need for another sub forum altogether for "I didn't receive my backup" threads.

C'mmon man, its a private forum and thank God, its still free.

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DubDubDubDot

10 years ago

I wouldn't expect a review thread to last long if the review request was for a B2B offer. That's always going to be suspected creative spam.

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clever7

10 years ago

There are too many spammers here.

On the other hand, if your thread seems to be promotional or if it is in the wrong section it will be deleted, even when it is helpful.

You have to avoid having your threads deleted. Read many posts in this forum and get familiar with its style. Read the rules, and be very careful when you decide to begin a new thread.

Sometimes the moderators delete a thread for subjective reasons, especially if you are new in the forum. If your thread seems to have hidden promotional intentions a moderator will prefer to delete it ‘just in case’ it really is promotional, even if he will be unfair with you.

First of all, learn how the WF works. Then, start new threads where you will give helpful information about what helped you make money, or make intelligent questions.

Use the ‘search’ option at the top, right side to look for the information you want before opening a new thread about this matter. Open a new thread if you won't find the information you were looking for.

Read the All-In-One threads to find helpful information about crucial matters before doing anything else. They are at the top, left side.

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DianaHeuser

10 years ago

I think people forget that in fact they are merely guests here. We do not get to make the rules. The owners do!

The moderators do a fantastic (and thankless) job of keeping this forum reasonably clean of the spam and junk that permeates the internet.

I think about 1000 posts a day are deleted. Nobody has that kind of time available to email each and every user who had a post deleted about the reasons just so that their feelings are not hurt.

Read the rules. It makes life simpler and less stressful

Di

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Valdor Kiebach

10 years ago

I'm sure it would easy to code a plugin for the forum where a deleted post / thread is sent to the OP's email address upon being deleted.

But as other have said, who cares.

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Paul Myers 10 years ago

Valdor,

I'm sure it would easy to code a plugin for the forum where a deleted post / thread is sent to the OP's email address upon being deleted.

Which would promptly get the forum's mailserver and domain listed in various blocklists and banned at all the big email systems.

But as other have said, who cares.

Indeed.

Paul
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- Valdor Kiebach 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  Valdor,Which would promptly get the forum's mailserver and domain listed in various blocklists and banned at all the big email systems.Indeed.
  
  Paul
  
  I just read the thread about the WF newsletter and judging by peoples response it already is.
  It seems to be going straight to spam if its being delivered at all.
  
  I would have thought that sending a thread to one person as part of a message informing them their thread has been deleted would not be considered as spam, but I suppose it would depend on how many are sent.
  
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Gene Pimentel

10 years ago

Paul said kewl. What's this world coming to.

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Ravikanth

10 years ago

This is mob tendency. Can you guys take a step back and think about it?

Do you think the moderators can perfectly assess if they have to handle so many spammers? It is dreary work. If I were in the position of the mod I would definitely play safe by deleting anything with an inkling of spam.

Turning the "spam threads" into a "non-google indexed cum closed threads" into separate archive does not cost any extra labour. This coupled with a 24 hour expiry date makes no difference in the amount of effort required by the mod. Yes, it does involve some code changes. That is work. Also, this reduces the amount of steam towards the moderators. The moderators will also be at more ease(I am guessing here). It actually makes the job of the moderators easier.

The spam threads get no eyeballs since they are moved out of the real forums. The op gets no benefit apart from backing up the contents. We can debate whether it should be 24 hours or 12 hours.

You guys are dismissing it without even giving it a thought.

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Katie Rich 10 years ago

Originally Posted by raviandkanth

This is mob tendency. Can you guys take a step back and think about it? You guys are dismissing it without even giving it a thought.

The thinking should really have been done before the post by the poster. Read the rules, if your post does not follow the rules, then I think the words are 'tough luck'.

I would love to be a moderator on here, but I'm nowhere near as accommodating as the current mods.
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Mark Singletary 10 years ago

Originally Posted by raviandkanth

If I were in the position of the mod I would definitely play safe by deleting anything with an inkling of spam.

I don't know why your thread was deleted, but if the definition of spam is that it's an unwanted message of some type, then that's exactly what they did - your thread was unwanted here for whatever reason and then apparently deleted.

Mark
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Tsnyder

10 years ago

I love how when the general consensus of those you ask is
that you're wrong you label it mob tendency.

Stop whining... move on.

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kencalhn

10 years ago

Ravi- i used to get peeved when a well thought out long post got deleted when a thread went sideways and got nuked, many many years ago. what i did then, and occasion still do, is whenever I write something I really like in this or any forum, I immediately use File/Save Page as in firefox to keep an html backup page on my hard drive in a c:/forums subdirectory on my hd. so back up well written comments you're sure you want to keep yourself, as soon as you post them, is my tip. Sometimes you may post a multi-paragraph well thought out mini-article type answer, and a thread later gets deleted because of someone else's post that came after yours; so I like to backup top posts on my hard drive

also btw i like your sig quote

they don't have time for what you asked, so do it yourself, ahead of time save great posts is what i've done. on the many forums I've been on, i found that's helpful since some truly epic threads get deleted, on any forum, and if there's useful tips or long comments you've made you want to keep, file/save as works well

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IMMer1975

10 years ago

I appreciate this thread is a lively debate with differing opinions. And owning a busy forum myself (of course nowhere on the scale of WF!), I appreciate that it would be impossible for the mods to do any extra effort on deleted threads.

However, just stepping back for a second - it wouldn't hurt would it to have a forum called "The Graveyard" - when a post is deleted it is a soft delete and is moved to the graveyard for 24 hours and then a cron job comes along and deletes it proper. This gives people an opportunity to capture whatever they needed to capture.

I don't have data to know how many "legitimate" threads are deleted, so all this may be a moot point. Just saying the OP's original idea has some merit, even if the actual implementation details may vary.

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tj

10 years ago

You can save your postings and the answers to it with programs like Webresearch at :: macropool :: and stay proactive in case your postings are not here anymore. Another option is Evernote to do that.

Timo

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JohnMcCabe

10 years ago

I posted in the thread Ravi is upset about. He was asking for input on a B2B site, which was actually pretty well done compared to the train wrecks many people ask about. So a couple of posters accused him of posting the request for promotional reasons, and the mob piled on.

Ravi, let it go. I know it seems unfair, but it happens. The way things were headed, it could easily have been deleted because of the attacks on you. And at this point, having a backup, etc. isn't practical.

Because threads can disappear for a variety of reasons, I use Evernote to capture stuff I want to save, even my own stuff.

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Mark Singletary

10 years ago

John, thanks for the clarification that this isn't one of those typical why was my thread deleted complaints.

I've gotten into the habit of at copying things I'm writing before I hit the submit button because some posts have gone bye-bye in the submission process.

Mark

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

I posted in the thread Ravi is upset about. He was asking for input on a B2B site, which was actually pretty well done compared to the train wrecks many people ask about. So a couple of posters accused him of posting the request for promotional reasons, and the mob piled on.

Ravi, let it go. I know it seems unfair, but it happens. The way things were headed, it could easily have been deleted because of the attacks on you. And at this point, having a backup, etc. isn't practical.

Because threads can disappear for a variety of reasons, I use Evernote to capture stuff I want to save, even my own stuff.

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Gene,

Paul said kewl. What's this world coming to.

About a buck three eighty.

Paul

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tj 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Gene,About a buck three eighty.

Paul

The price for a beer?
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- Paul Myers 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by tj
  
  The price for a beer?
  
  Give or take a quatloo.
  
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RobinInTexas

10 years ago

I've seen threads deleted (apparently) because a discussion got out of hand, had nothing to do with the OP.

If there's something you see anywhere on the web, here or on the Washington Post website, that you want to keep, save it. It couldn't be simpler. Take a lesson and eliminate the frustration you are causing for yourself.

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Sarevok

10 years ago

I've always assumed that all content is temporary.

(Especially if I don't control the domain. But even if. It's only temporary).

Source and Works Cited:
Theory of relativity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Anne Laidlaw

10 years ago

The mods do a great job here, they volunteer their time to make this forum a better place for all of us. The last thing they need is more work. This forum would become a trash bin if it were not for the mods deleting all the spam it gets.

Anne L

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davezan

10 years ago

When you start a discussion, don't you get its replies (if any) via email?

Just a thought.

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James Druman

10 years ago

Simple enough to save your posts in a text doc or in evernote before you post them. Also gives you the opportunity to repurpose them later if you want to.

Something like this is your responsibility, not the mods'.

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Ravikanth

10 years ago

Originally Posted by joseph7384

For that to happen, the mods would need a third eye!

Do you really think that they would reward you with a back up for breaking the rules, I think not.

I know quite a bit about the third eye - I am from India. It does n't really help in this case

Originally Posted by cdutoit

I appreciate this thread is a lively debate with differing opinions. And owning a busy forum myself (of course nowhere on the scale of WF!), I appreciate that it would be impossible for the mods to do any extra effort on deleted threads.

However, just stepping back for a second - it wouldn't hurt would it to have a forum called "The Graveyard" - when a post is deleted it is a soft delete and is moved to the graveyard for 24 hours and then a cron job comes along and deletes it proper. This gives people an opportunity to capture whatever they needed to capture.

I don't have data to know how many "legitimate" threads are deleted, so all this may be a moot point. Just saying the OP's original idea has some merit, even if the actual implementation details may vary.

You seem to be one of the few who has read what I have written.

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

I posted in the thread Ravi is upset about. He was asking for input on a B2B site, which was actually pretty well done compared to the train wrecks many people ask about. So a couple of posters accused him of posting the request for promotional reasons, and the mob piled on.

Ravi, let it go. I know it seems unfair, but it happens. The way things were headed, it could easily have been deleted because of the attacks on you. And at this point, having a backup, etc. isn't practical.

Because threads can disappear for a variety of reasons, I use Evernote to capture stuff I want to save, even my own stuff.

I started this thread because I lost the feedback post from you

. It is a good warning for me. I agree with you. It is much smarter to cover your feet than it is to cover the entire world

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Ladies and gentlemen, I present this thread to you as a classic demonstration of why the mods don't generally notify people of deletions, or explain them. It far too often ends up with this sort of lengthy discussion.

Different points, but the same tenacious insistence that anyone disagreeing with them either doesn't understand or is being unfair.

Here's a very simple explanation of part of this problem: If you ask for site reviews and it looks like a significant portion of the members here are likely to be prospects, we treat it as promotional.

Yes, that sucks when you're really looking for reviews and not trying to sneak a spam by. I know that. It just sucks less than the amount of fake "review my site" requests we'd get if we didn't treat them that way.

The possible exceptions: If you're looking for suggestions on sales copy and you post in the copywriting section, or on the look and feel and you post in the design sub-forum.

Paul

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Michael Meaney

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Ladies and gentlemen, I present this thread to you as a classic demonstration of why the mods don't generally notify people of deletions, or explain them. It far too often ends up with this sort of lengthy discussion.

And somebody being called a Nazi.

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brutecky

10 years ago

Wow sounds like the OP has a bit of an entitlement attitude.

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Wow sounds like the OP has a bit of an entitlement attitude.

I don't get that impression at all, personally.

I think he made a suggestion that seems reasonable to him and he just doesn't understand the background issues that make it less advisable than he believes. If he really wasn't looking to sneak some promotional links through, he's got to wonder why we took the action we did.

It's one of those reasonable debates that could chew up a million man hours (figuratively speaking) if we engaged in it every time it came up. That doesn't make it any less reasonable. Just impractical.

Paul

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flyingdutch

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

I think he made a suggestion that seems reasonable to him

Paul

I think that this resumes exactly the point. But the only point that counts is : Does it seem reasonable to the mods.

I don't expect any backups, explanations or discussions why stuff got deleted. I'm a guest in YOUR house. YOU (the mods) set the rules.

Feel free to delete

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Frank Donovan

10 years ago

Originally Posted by flyingdutch

I think that this resumes exactly the point. But the only point that counts is : Does it seem reasonable to the mods.

I don't expect any backups, explanations or discussions why stuff got deleted. I'm a guest in YOUR house. YOU (the mods) set the rules.

Actually, no. The owners of the forum set the rules; the mods merely try to enforce them. Thus far, the mods on this forum have been unpaid, volunteer members.

IMO, that's even more reason not to expect them to spend their time explaining the reasoning behind every deleted post or thread.

Frank

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dejaone

10 years ago

Always save a copy somewhere else if it's a lengthy one and you have put a lot of energy into it.

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Dennis Millbrath

10 years ago

I would agree, if there is something that is important it should be on you to make a note of it or create your own backup. If it went to the graveyard, the thread URL would change anyway, so you still would not have access to it if it was bookmarked.

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Ravikanth

10 years ago

I would like to thank Thomas for taking the time to send me the google cache with all the posts. Thank you Thomas.

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Greg guitar

10 years ago

While I can understand the frustration you're feeling, imo, you made a serious mistake and set a bad tone with the title of the thread.

You don't really have grounds to complain about the replies imo, when you started off sounding like you're trying to recruit others to agree that the mods treated you unfairly. Surely you can understand that a lot of people have lost patience with complaints from folks who try to sell us on their accusations of unfair treatment by the volunteers who keep the forum quality high for all of us.

I understand that you weren't spamming, and are frustrated that you lost some good feedback, but if you know how the forum operates, you need to be thanking the mods for their service, not asking people to join you in whining about how they treated you.

I suggest, since the feedback you valued came from someone who chimed in here, that you simply ask him to reiterate what he said; the worst that can happen is he won't respond, or will say no. Better than tilting at the windmill of unfair treatment by mods.

Your suggestion seems good to you, and I believe was well intended, but you did start out a bit whiny sounding, and then amplified that tone by complaining about the character of the opinions you asked for, once they came in.

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Randall Magwood

10 years ago

Well... you could always start your own forum...!?!?!

That way you could be in control of everything and make your own rules. More traffic to your site too.

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