Desperately Need Help With Article And Video Suggestions

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My fellow marketers. It took a lot of pride swallowing to come here and make this post considering at one time I was a fairly successful marketer. In short, Google slammed the article directories and my business model crashed. End of story. So I had to start all over.

This January I put up a royalty free music site. In the almost 5 months since, traffic is about the same. I get about 150 unique visitors a month. The site has lots of music on it. By the end of this week it will have 5,000 tracks.

But I've been essentially told that the music is meaningless. That if I want to get more traffic I need to put articles and videos on my site as well. I tried to logically wrap my head around this. Why would somebody coming to a royalty free music site looking for music to download to use for their own videos or whatever have any interest in reading articles or watching videos? It made no sense to me. So I ignored the advice.

Well, 5 months later I can see that these people were probably right. So I am going to do just that. I am going to write articles and make videos and put them up on the site.

The problem is, I have no idea what to write or what kind of videos to make. Again, none of this made any sense to me so I am clueless as to what people would want to read and see and for that matter what Google would consider relevant so that I can get more traffic.

Please help. I am not looking for a handout. Just some suggestions. I have made all over $300 this year after a $5,000 year last year. I am desperate. I will do the work. I just need to know what I have to do in order to make this site successful.

Thank you for your help. Again, this wasn't an easy post to make.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #article #desperately #suggestions #video
  • Steven,

    Welcome back. Good to see you back.

    You are right about articles and how it crashed for a lot of people. What I don't like these days is that some gurus out there still recommend their students to write articles and submit them to directories.

    All I know is that it is a waste of time.
    • [2] replies
    • I know, but I'm talking about putting articles and videos on my own site. Can you help me there?
    • Why do you want to write articles and post videos? Is it because that's what someone told you to do? Or is it because that's what your users actually want?

      If it's just the former, it's probably a waste of time.

      If it's the latter, you're the one who's in the best position to understand your customer and what the types of videos and articles they want.

      If you don't know the answer... Find out! If you have a Facebook page, post a question about it. If you send out an email newsletter, try to get people to fill out a survey. Maybe make people answer a one-question survey before they are able to download a song -- it could be randomly selected from a series of questions designed to learn about who your users are. Or figure out some other way to find out -- I'm just brainstorming here; there are countless ways to get customer feedback.

      The bottom line is if you don't know your customer, you can't give them what they want. If you're not giving people what they want, you won't grow except by accident.
      • [1] reply
    • Banned
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  • Just a thought but could you do music & video reviews? Would give Google etc the content their looking for.

    Anne L
  • I don't think it is that hard to think up some content to either put on this site or on feeder sites.

    Where can I find royalty free music?
    Why should I use royalty free music?
    Where can I find music for my YouTube videos?
    Will YouTube delete my video if I add a song to it?
    What kind of music can I use with YouTube?
    What happens if I use a popular song in my video?

    This is just junk I thought of in about 30 seconds. I would brainstorm what kind of questions people who have a need for royalty free music might have and create content around that. You could do these as separate articles or as a giant FAQ.
    • [1] reply
    • Thanks Mike. Those are the kind of ideas I'm looking for. Would an article explaining exactly what royalty free music is help as well? I think a lot of people are under the impression that royalty free means free, which it does not.
      • [1] reply
  • Don't put articles and videos on your site. Like @MikeFriedman says, put them on feeder sites and post them on YouTube instead. Have your RF music on them, of course .
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Putting articles on feeder sites like Ezine Articles is all I used to do for my old business model. It doesn't work anymore. Those sites have all been slammed by Google. It will bring me ZERO traffic. If anything is a waste of time, THAT is a waste of time. Youtube, maybe. But there you run into the problem of promotion that can get your account shut down. How do I know? I already had one Youtube account closed because I had videos that were considered marketing related.
  • Looks like PPC could be your only option, then.
    • [1] reply
    • Not an option. Forget that I'm broke and couldn't even pay Google's bill. The CPC would be greater than what I would earn off a download assuming that they don't just pirate it like they've been doing. My money will come from marketers who want custom scores. To get those kind of clients I need tons of traffic because very few regular visitors will shell out a grand for a complete custom score. I'm not going to make money selling $1.99 downloads especially not if I use PPC to get traffic for them. That's just plain suicide.
      • [1] reply
  • Feeder sites do not have to be Ezine and junk like that.

    You can build your own. Only costs the price of a domain. www. royaltyfreetunes.com, for example.

    Some Web 2.0 sites can work well also.

    I would put a FAQ on the site with some of those questions I mentioned though. That kind of content can bring in visitors. And I would probably do both as far as the articles. Put them on feeder sites and put different original articles covering some of the same content on your own site too.
    • [1] reply
    • whack them on your own site first.

      Did youtube give you any warning before closing account? I would see these video subjects as information, and youtube is packed with much more blatant promotional videos!
  • Nice to see you back again! A few ideas for content:

    - "Is it safe to use this?" What Royalty-Free Music Really Means
    - Why do artists make their music royalty-free?
    - Deciphering "Creative Commons"
    - How do I convert royalty-free music to _____ (insert format here).

    Hope this helps!
    • [1] reply
    • Thank you. You're the best. Really appreciate it.

      In response to the Feeder site suggestion from Mike.

      Question: Where are these feeder sites that I'm going to put up (I assume Wordpress) getting their traffic from? They have no more authority than the site I'm trying to get traffic from. So I'm wasting time putting up sites that do me no good. I need to get my content on sites that already have authority. That used to be easy when EZA had some clout. Now, not so easy. In fact, now it's an exercise in futility.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Having sites devoted to royalty free music linking to your site about royalty free music has some value in Google's eyes, so yes, even brand new domains can be worthwhile.
  • Steven,

    Great to see you.

    If you are married/committed to the idea of only selling music, I agree with most of what has been said above. In addition you may pick up some ideas in the new Growth Hacking forum here on the WF.

    Having said that, If you built that site in your sig. you can pick up some nice cash cloning that site and selling it. I mean that site with all the music, more or less should fetch you a nice chunk of change to invest in your business.

    I know it might hurt to think of letting all that music go to others to sell, however, you mentioned that pirates are hitting you anyway. Whole selling your music along with sites might be your best bet. You can always create more music and as you said your long term goal is to do custom work, which you could get from other royalty free music sites so as to make their offerings unique.

    Just another idea,

    George Wright, P.S. Having in the past been associated with an excellent songwriter, well known in his own right, I know royalty free music for Internet projects is a hard sell.
    • [ 3 ] Thanks
  • Hi,

    If I was you i'd just email Google and ask them, what they like to see on your site!

    Greg
    • [1] reply
    • Bless you! A thousand times over, bless you. Very big help. I guess when you're mind is so twisted up from all the setbacks and financial problems, it's hard to think straight. Truth is, at one time I probably would have thought of most of this. But since my business went south it's hard for me to think at all these days. Thank God I don't have to think to write music or I'd really be in trouble.

      Thank you Thomas. I'll make a note of this as well.

      I have no doubt this won't be easy, but it can be done. My friend Kevin makes $6,000 a month just from the ads on his site. Yes, I have Adsense on it too in order to someday get income from that.

      I have actually thought of that. Question is, will they read it and if they do, will they respond? Hell, I'd love to have Google tell me exactly what they'd like to see on my site. Who wouldn't?

      To everybody else. I have copied and pasted all your suggestions in a text file so this has not been for nothing. I will go through everything and start working on this project ASAP. I know I have a lot of work to do and it won't be a cakewalk. Making my first successful business took me 3 years. I don't expect this to happen overnight.

      Again, thank you all and bless you all. You have no idea how much your help means to me.
  • This may have been mentioned already. If so, I apologise in advance.

    Remember to post everything you write, every video you make on as many sites as possible.
    It may not help with SEO, (which is debatable), but, it will generate traffic from those sites.
    Obviously you want to create your own Youtube channel with links back to your site.

    I overlayed my URL in the videos I made.
    You could also make videos featuring your music. Simple slide shows, or perhaps someone reading your articles.
    I turned every article I wrote into slide show videos using PLR music quietly in the background and included photos of the product or something related to it.

    Just more FFT.

    Good luck
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Due to my past experience trying to help you, I'm a little reluctant to post this.

    First, you don't have a unique sales position. Why should folks buy music from you when they can get it from a place like www.JewelBeat.com ? VideoBlocks also offers tons of royalty free music, combined with lots of other media for $99 a year for unlimited downloads.

    Even Youtube offers 150 (?) FREE music tracks available to download and use on any project, plus 10,000's of other music tracks you can use on Youtube videos.

    Sorry, but the honest truth is you aren't going to beat these resources on music alone. You must come up with a unique marketing plan.

    You say you have 5000 songs. I'd make 200-250 of them free, with terms similar to:
    http://incompetech.com/music/royalty-fee/

    These 250 songs act as "link bait" and for social promotion. You need to find every site that links to Incomptech and see if they will link to your site, as well.

    Next, I'd take another 1000 songs and add them to a free membership for download, as optin bait to help build a related list. On every page on the site, promote this as something like "get 1000 more FREE songs now. Click here."

    I'd take the remaining songs and try either packaging them for sale, or putting them in a premium download membership. Maybe something like $27 a year for unlimited downloads, with an affiliate program using something like JVZoo, etc. Get other people to help you promote.

    Use the email list to market audio and video related affiliate products, as well as your own custom services.

    You have some assets. You just need to come up with a different way to market them than copying the other royalty free download sites.
    • [ 11 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Kurt, as hard as this is for me to say, you are probably dead on the money. I knew going in that this wasn't going to be easy. The site you mentioned above is actually a friend of mine. He's been online for like 16 years. His traffic alone brings in $6,000 a month just from ad revenue. It's sick.

      I know I have my work cut out for me. I am going to copy and paste your suggestions along with everybody else's into my text file.

      I have to believe that if I just keep at this something will happen. At least I am doing something that I am knowledgeable about and enjoy.

      That has to be half the battle.

      Thank you for your input.
      • [1] reply
  • Banned
    That's complete nonsense. Whoever told you that is clueless, ignore them.

    I have multiple download sites I've been ranking pages for a few years, I've never wrote a single article.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Create some videos and post them up on YouTube.

    Create some jobs on Fiverr and similar sites offering some of your tracks. Make sure when you deliver them that there is information in the package about the rest of your site.

    List your services on some of the other Freelancer sites including here on Warriors for hire.

    Use your site as part of your arsenal for driving business, not the focus of it. If you are really just using it as a path to your other services, then focus on your other services and ways to drive business to that instead.
  • You need to become a resource that others will recommend and link to.

    That said, what's the conversion rate like on the traffic you do get? I ask because I buy quite a bit of RFM and there are a couple of things on your site that stick out to me...

    The "click arrow at right to listen" graphic on your site next to each track is out of focus and quite distracting.

    Next, if I click one track to sample it and then click another one, they play at the same time. Most RFM sites are coded to automatically stop the previous track when the play button on a different track is clicked. Again very distracting & inconvenient/annoying.

    Third, you have some nice sounding tracks, but a lot of the ones I listened to sounded overly synthesized. I don't know if it's your recording equipment or something else. When I compared the sound quality to tracks on a few other RFM sites there is a noticeable difference. As a potential customer, I'd rather see 200 quality tracks by themselves than 200 quality tracks and 4,800 that I don't like. Not saying that your ratio is that bad. Just saying to go for quality over quantity. The ones I don't like detract from the ones that I do like & honestly I'm not going to stick around long if too many of the samples are something that I'd never consider using.

    I'm sorry if this response sounds like I'm picking on you. That's not my intention. It's just honest feedback coming from someone who purchases their fair share of royalty free music. And I'd hate to see you invest all of your time into driving traffic only to be disappointed in your conversion rate due to some potential product development flaws in the eyes of your target audience.

    Maybe my remarks don't match what your conversion rates are telling you. If that's the case, revert back to the first sentence of this reply.

    In the meantime, you could take your top 20 sellers and package them as a WSO for some quick cash. I'll pay the listing fee for you if you want to go that route.

    Good luck to you.
    • [ 3 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • 1) A lot of the music sounds synthesized because it's supposed to. The electronic and dance tracks especially.

      2) All tracks are created using VSTs so there are no actual real instruments on these tracks. If you're expecting something different you won't find it here.

      3) The graphic has always been a problem. Originally it was just that, a graphic, with no wording. But then people complained because they would click it expecting to play the track. So I added text to it directing them to click at the right. I will change the graphic again to just a plain black background and white text so that it's easy to read.

      4) If you're not happy with the overall sound then obviously you won't be a customer. A lot of these sites have 10s of thousands of dollars of processing equipment which I can't afford. I used Cubase 7 and whatever built in processors it has. It's $300 software. I also don't charge some of the outrageous amounts that some of these sites charge for a track of music. However, if you listen to my orchestral stuff (which is what custom scores will sound like, just longer) you will notice that the sound quality is much better because it isn't processed as much. It is with this music that I hope to get clients to do custom scores for.

      5) For the record, and for what it's worth, considering how little traffic I get, I get quite a lot of downloads of my music, ironically mostly of the over synthesized stuff. They seem to go for that. Sadly, everything so far has been pirated and nothing paid for. So the last thing I am going to do, even if I had the money, is spend thousands of dollars on processing equipment. It makes no sense at this stage.

      6) Ultimately, I hope to find just one honest person a month looking for a custom orchestral score ($1,000) and that will be more than enough to get me over the hump. I'm certainly not going to get rich selling tracks for 99 cents to $1.99 nor do I expect to. I know what I expect to get out of this site once I start generating some decent traffic and I don't think my expectations are unreasonable. With the little bit of traffic I'm getting I already got 2 people interested in custom scores. Unfortunately, one backed out at the last minute and the other, after intensive communication, suddenly stopped returning emails. It is what it is. But I'm not discouraged and I'm not giving up. I am happy with the way the site looks (I think it is one of the best looking RFM sites on the Internet) and I am pleased with the quality of the product I am putting out even if it's not your cup of tea.

      7) Thank you for all your suggestions as well as the offer for the WSO. I will certainly consider it and take you up on it as soon as I can put something together. Right now I am working on so many things in regard to getting this site moving that I don't know when that will be. But I will PM you when I am ready.

      PS - I changed the graphic. It is now crystal clear.
  • Let me echo the people who are steering you right: Find JV partners. Your service will not benefit from articles, etc. on your site*. Put together a few theme packages of royalty-free music (dramatic, uplifting, for background music in games/apps, etc.). Find people in the video production/content niche and do deals giving away your music (in packages, etc.) to build your email list. Market new packages to your list; sell subscriptions to your site in a membership-type deal. Sell affiliate (related) stuff to your list.

    All this assumes that your music is really high quality (that's the thing people have trouble finding...lots of royalty free, but a lot of crap to wade through.)

    *Having said that, you could do tutorials on HOW to put music into videos (or other uses)...for example, how to add a music track to Camtasia, how to choose the best music for a video sales letter, how to integrate music in the various video editing apps for ios, etc...stuff that is value-added for people who would be potential customers. Is there a beats-per-minute people should be using for sales videos vs. inspiration videos? You could also create your own YouTube vids featuring your music...maybe even go to fiverr and do gigs adding music to other people's videos...? It sounds like you have a valuable resource...partner with people who already have an audience that can benefit from what you have.

    d3.
    • [1] reply
    • Steven,

      I think you are more concern about traffic and not content in your main site..... you have already site ready full of royalty free music, so my opinion you don't need content on it, you need traffic and only traffic.

      Focus on generating traffic and visitor to your site......
      you need to spend a little time, say 2 hours a day.

      have a bunch of keywords related to "royalty free music" make your research on these keywords and have something like 1000 search per month for each keyword.

      create 5 or more web 2.0 account name them all same ex.
      royaltyfreemusic.wordpress.com
      royaltyfreemusic.blogger.com
      royaltyfreemusic.livejournal.com et......

      write 300 words article around each of these keywords and find software tool to automate the posting on daily or weekly basis for you.

      For the 1st weeks do not link from web 2.0 to your money site just to stay safe from not been considered as spammer.

      Post article on ezine and other known, put your link in the resource box.

      This would generate more traffic to your site without adding any content on your site.

      more strategy you can add and use to rank your site in google to have some traffic, create and upload 10 simple video 1min in youtube, link each of them to your site, make sure you put the link on your description first.
      Some people think video creation can be difficult or take a long to create, but this is not the case, if you have video creation software or tool, you can create 10 high quality video's within 1 hour or less .
      • [1] reply
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  • I'll throw some things at you...

    Others have suggested going for ad revenue. This would be an easy way to go as you're basically going to treat your music as content. I don't care what niche you're in, FREE drives traffic and may not make for the best buyers, but they are clickers. You could also advertise your custom scores service and you may luck out with enough traffic being pushed through.

    Instead of cranking out articles, you would be cranking out music as content. You will have to set some strong TOS so these tracks don't end up on any other sites where someone could just basically clone your site.

    Use YouTube to drive traffic by uploading lots of samples... incorporate some social media sharing on your site and a feedback form for testimonials you can post for added credibility.

    Then stop trying...

    You could make some great money by shifting gears and being more of a content producer which will still allow you to do the thing you're passionate about while at the same time, making some bank.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • You're going to have to explain what you mean by shifting gears and becoming a content producer. A content producer of what? Doing what?
      • [1] reply
    • I agree: slash the $0.99 and $1.99 thing. There is no money there, and it's clouding your business model with unnecessary fluff. Focus on the higher-end price range.
      • [1] reply
  • Sometimes it not just the content but knowing how to rank it.I have seen some awfularticles and videos but ranked very highly on Google because they know what their doing. I would suggest learning how to rank videos on YouTube and then putting upsome sort of tutorial on how certain types of tunes affect certain moods or something you probably know better as to what your customers are into .
    • [1] reply
    • The thing is, I don't want to "game" the system. All this crap to "rank" with Google almost always ends in disaster because people are trying to game the system. Google themselves has said what they want. Put good, relevant content on your site that your visitors will find useful.

      It's that simple.
      • [1] reply
  • Steven,

    Let's do a reset, because I am a little lost. Forget your current website and strategies.

    What do you WANT to do? What are your interests and what are you good at?

    Don't get focused on the site. Establish a solid plan of where you want to be and then figure out how you are going to get there.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • This site is what I WANT to do. Creating music is my LIFE. It always has been. Now that my old business has tanked thanks to the spammy marketers and Google's reaction to them, I am now doing something I really enjoy, whether or not it makes me any money.

      This is what I want to do.
      • [3] replies
  • Steven,

    I'm guessing that it takes 30 minutes a song (at least) to create and upload. For 5000 songs, that's 2500 hours (at least).

    How much time have you put into marketing? I'm guilty of this myself, but shouldn't more time be spent on marketing a product than creation?

    I agree with your points on Youtube. However, it may be possible to use Youtube for another purpose. How about a channel dedicated to meditation or self hypnosis? Find/pay for stock video and/or "motion backgrounds" and add your music to them. Simply monetize with Adsense. With things like hypnosis and self help, you can also link to any of the many related affiliate programs.

    There are many other topics that are much more popular than just "royalty free music". Why not have a world music channel and a rock channel? How about an inspirational , motivational and/or bible quote of the day, set to your music? Again, don't worry about selling, just getting viewers and subscribers to your channels. There are many related affiliate products you can add as an additional revenue stream that aren't "royalty free music" related.

    You are a member of the High Voltage Video Forum. Take a look at my "Suggested Video" thread. Can you create "tribute" songs for the most popular bands and try to "hijack" some of their traffic and popularity? Take advantage of the popular artist tours that are getting lots of publicity. I'd also bet a Justin Bieber tribute song could do pretty well, just don't tell anyone it's you.

    I haven't tried these firsthand, but they are surely worth a test:

    1. Itunes - Create 10 "albums" as a test for iTunes, include some royalty free albums, as well as other themed music.

    2. Amazon - Put the music on Amazon too. I believe they also have DVD fullfillment and aren't just limited to creating books.

    3. eBay - Sell DVDs with your music. Find royalty free stock video and create DVDs for things like exercises, where the music on each DVD has the same beat/tempo, or organize songs with different tempos. Sell meditation DVDs, with relaxing stock video that supplements your music.

    It's pretty easy to make DVDs yourself, get some decent DVD templates for your printer, and you can mix and match your music inventory into tons of different offers.
    • [ 9 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • All plausible suggestions, no question. I don't want to split myself into too many directions however. I want to pick and concentrate on the one thing that will give me the most bang for the buck or I could be spending countless hours marketing in an area that's hopeless.

      As for how long it takes to make a track, depends. The really involved ones can take 2 hours or more, especially the orchestral music. And a full blown soundtrack for somebody's video can take 2 to 4 weeks.

      Most of what I've done so far is about an hour of work. No way I put more into it than that for 99 cent songs. But my paying customers, if I get any, will require an enormous amount of time, and thus the high price tag.

      Like I said earlier, I'm making a note of everything in this thread and putting it in a text file. There used to be a way to PDF the whole thread but I forgot how to do it, it's been so long.
      • [1] reply
  • Another option: Put together 50-100 royalty free songs with a liberal usage license. Watch for the popular video related product launches. JV with some of those folks and offer your collection of songs as a free bonus to their product. Have it so that in order to get your songs, the folks need to submit their email.

    You can also put together a package and create an affiliate program, where you give affiliates 100% for the package, with an upsell of access to 1000 songs as an upsell.

    You have so many songs that you can do a ton of different things. IMO, it's isn't either/or, but "all of the above".
  • Who are the customers? They must go somewhere?
    • [1] reply
    • The customers go directly to the royalty free music sites that actual sell the music and these sites do no help promote other sites unless it's some kind of JV where there is something substantial in it for them. My friend Kevin who has the number 3 site on the Internet does recommend alternative sites IF he feels they are good enough. I already approached him and he said that I'm not good enough yet to be recommended by him. I guess his reputation means a lot to him. I can respect that. He did say however that I am good enough that I should make money with what I've done. That much was encouraging.

      My best shots will probably come from finding people who have products in the IM niche who feel that adding music to these products will benefit them and make them more attractive. That will come down to making contacts. I've exhausted the ones I already know so it's time to go out and find new ones.

      @Kurt. You're absolutely right. No excuses. I am going to try a variety of things. Today I will have completed my quota of 5,000 songs uploaded. Starting tomorrow I am going to tear this thread apart and start picking things to begin working on. As you said, what I'm doing right now (putting music on the site and hoping for traffic) isn't working so I have nothing to lose in trying something else, anything else.

      I will report back here in a few weeks or so, depending on how long it takes to see if I'm getting any kind of results, on what I did and what it has gotten me.

      If nothing else, this is going to be one fly by the seat of my pants ride as I have never done anything like this before. My old business model was pretty cut and dried and worked for quite a few years until it didn't anymore.

      Time to move on.
  • Banned
    [DELETED]
    • [1] reply

    • Yup ata-boy, kick a man when he is down eh? I see you're that kind of person. FYI... When that interview happened Steve was successful so what you're saying is once you are successful that's it ... end game?

      Also, when things go south it's hard to concentrate and think clearly so you just spend most of your days spinning your wheels in complete circles.

      But hey, if you want to be the person that searches Google looking for eggs to throw then at least everyone here will know what kind of person you truly are and to stay away. Man do I ever hate the people who have to step on a man's head a push them further down just to make themselves feel intelligent.
      • [ 3 ] Thanks
  • That's actually a very incorrect statement. You're assuming that you need to get tons and tons of "junk" traffic (people looking for the free stuff) to come across a couple high quality "custom work" buyers. That's only one strategy, but one that will be a lot more work and a lot harder to succeed at.

    My suggestion to you would be to focus on targeting the people looking for custom work. There's a few things you can do there to start with:

    1. Create a list of keywords that people looking to buy custom work might search for, and then make sure that you have those keywords being used at least a little on your site (especially in the title tags). This alone could help you a lot. Writing some articles or doing a short video or two showing off some of your work could also help here.

    2. I know you said you don't have a budget for PPC, but if you target just the custom work guys, I think you might change your mind.

    3. Search forums, classified sites, freelance sites, etc. for people looking for custom work -- there's definitely people out there searching for that right now.

    After you do those three things, you should also consider what other skills you have that you might be able to supplement your income with in the meantime. You're a writer, obviously, but can you also write sales copy? Powerpoint video sales copy (to differentiate yourself a bit)? There's lots of other opportunities out there and people are always looking to hire.

    - Brian
  • Well, there is some confusing info out there. If e.g. you read Evan Bailyn, it's all about backlinks and little else. Others, like the MOZ crowd, Fishkin, Enge, differentiate a bit more etc.

    However, looking at your site e.g. with

    Open Site Explorer

    your page/domain authority (11/24) are not great yet.

    Some of this comes with age, but you definitely need more backlinks (dofollow better, but nofollow not necessarily evil, provided it makes sense to Google).

    But what I see right now as your number one weakness is on-page SEO, i.e. you have far too little pertinent text on your site to make sense to Googlebot, Bing etc.

    They just can't tell they should send you traffic from someone who looks for the music you host!!!

    Go to Google and search for "related:wagsrfm.com" and you find .... NOTHING.

    Type "music sites free" in Google and see who pops up. Then, e.g. no. 1 I have is:

    "freeplaymusic.com". When I do

    "related:freeplaymusic.com" I get e.g. 38 results.

    This is telling me you have some way to go with regard to SEO techniques which I cannot unfold all here. For that it took me several thousand pages of (e- and hardcover) books and thousands of blog posts etc. to read.

    You have to reengineer the sites that are your likely competitors (rule of thumb: where would you like your site to rank in any SERP - look at the site that's there instead of yours - check their Title, Meta description, Keywords, site navigation, then backlink profile) ... then get a bit better in each of these areas and you'll eventually outrank them. There is no other way in my experience!

    A good start that costs nothing would be the MOZ (formerly SEO MOZ) course,

    e.g. Chapter 7: What is Link Building? Strategies & Examples - The Beginners Guide to SEO - Moz

    and take a look at backlinko.com. But if you Google for "on-page SEO", "backlink strategy", "link bait", "SEO tools" and read all that you find you get the idea.

    And don't throw away your former site that was demoted by Google. It might still come in handy in your new efforts.

    Kind regards
    Darragh
  • Yo Steve, how are you doing?
    It's nice seeing you again.

    If you can remember, in the past i had a brush with you after following most of your blogs even though am more successful than you today. Most of what i read in your blog back then actually inspired and spurred me into action.

    Each time i read your blog post it tells me of one thing, quality supersedes.

    Going back to the subject of discussion.

    I really don't see how royalty free music site can make any money from articles,
    could it be adsense again?
    Why would i want music and start reading articles?
    It doesn't just make any sense to me.
    Looks like you are still stuck in the past (the article thing). You need to understand that the only thing constant in life is change, yeah, i could remember you saying the same thing in one of your blog post. Call me a d**k head but you were part of my success story.

    Here is a tip of iceberg.

    Fish out the top royalty free music site and see how they generate their money as well as traffic source. There are many tools to help you know where their main traffic comes from and Alexa is one site that does a good job. A desperate man shouldn't be re-inventing the wheels.

    To Your Success,
    John Benjamin
    • [1] reply
    • A lot to respond to so let me take these one at a time.

      Brian, thank you. Believe it or not, I never thought of this. I will obviously need to do some research on where these people are and how to get to them but it's probably a much shorter route.

      Thank you again.

      No, you're not on my ignore list Kay. Honestly, I didn't know how to respond so I said nothing. I just don't want to get dragged into knock down drag outs anymore. You don't like my music. You think it's flawed. Okay, well, it is what it is. I won't please everybody. To put in the kind of work you'd expect me to put in it would have taken me 20 years to get 5,000 tracks on this site. I felt I needed quantity to begin with to even begin to get noticed. Again, I was totally clueless on what was important to do in order to get this running and making money. If I screwed up right out of the gate, oh well. I can't go back. Yes, I can now start putting in that extra time to make each track John Williams material but until then I need to start working on other things in order to drive traffic and get custom work. I have been given some good starting points from several of the members here that I intend to go over and map out a plan for. I will also take your criticism to heart and work on making better music.

      The more I read about the exercise stuff the more I like it. I will make a list of these sites and start writing to the webmasters for possible JVs in supplying music for their videos.

      Like it. Really like it.

      First off, Lance, I am taking responsibility for my situation. I have sunk close to $10,000 that I didn't have into this business. I am dead serious about making this work.

      As far as it never being that simple, as I said, I was clueless as to what to do. I did what I thought would work. I was wrong. I had nobody to help me. I did my best. I will now move forward and start working on other avenues for making money through my music. I like Kurt's exercise video thing. Maybe I can hook up with a top site who happens to need music. I'm not ruling anything out at this stage.

      Darragh. I know nothing about SEO. Again, I did what I thought would work. It didn't. I am now looking at the advice in this thread and developing a course of action. I like Kurt's exercise video thing. I think I need to just start contacting webmasters who might have a product that music would help.

      The SEO will have to be put on hold because I know nothing about it and can't afford to hire an SEO expert.

      John, first off, glad I was able to help you. A lot of music sites actually make money from ad revenue. I wonder how many actually make any number of significant sales outside of the ones who pay commissions to other writers to write for them if their music gets sold. It's not a model I want to get into for logistical reasons. Plus, I have yet to figure out how to keep people from steeling the tracks I have up there now. Thousands of downloads and not one sale. So I can see I have to shift my focus. The freebie seekers are simply going to steel this stuff. I have to find people who want custom music and are willing to pay for it.
      • [3] replies
  • Banned
    @ Steven Wagenheim

    I'm looking at your site (forum sig) right now, your basically doing what I've been doing for over 8 years, same concept, different niche.

    I'll tell you an easy way to drive targeted free traffic to your site.

    Here's the secret, same niche forum traffic. I still average about 3,000 unique traffic today/everyday from being very active on a same niche forum years ago, but being active isn't enough you have to be active & laser focused on a single sub-niche (ex: royalty free music).

    There's a few things you need to do:
    • Number one goal, be sincere in everything you post on the same niche forum.
    • Do not advertise any paid product on a forum sig, etc...
    • Start or find an existing thread that's only focused on one subject, example, royalty free music.
    • Upload free full samples of royalty free music for each of the categories on your own website, upload them directly to the forum as individual zip files. The files have to be 100% free (trust me on this).
    • Include the same free sample files on your own website, one file per webpage (except for category pages).
    • Add an internet shortcut icon/link inside each of the individual zip files that links back to your own site (repeat traffic).

    The goal here is to build a single forum thread that dominates the entire sub-niche, that's sub-niche not overall niche, there's a huge difference. The difference is staying laser focused on one thing (ex: royalty free music).

    Your creating a go to place on the net for your downloadable files. The niche forum gets the advantage of being a hub for all your free files without losing any traffic, it's a win win situation for both. Your files will eventually draw in traffic as the thread grows. You have to be consistent when posting files, spread it out over months, post new free files daily If possible.

    Make sure to post your basic files on the forum but occasionally throw in one of your best files, all hosted on the same niche forum thread (one massive forum thread).

    Once traffic is back on your site, do all your selling. I know some people think freebie seekers don't buy but I've found that to not be true. Example, If someone offered me a free tshirt at a concert, I would take the tshirt, I would still end up buying another tshirt at the next concert, or whatever... My point is laser focused sub-niche traffic will spend money If you have what they're looking for.

    Remember we're aiming to brand the entire strategy. Train traffic to come back to you for your sub-niche content.

    If you follow that outline you shouldn't have any problem driving a lot of consistent traffic back to your own site for years. You will eventually be the go to person for that sub-niche, not only on the single forum but multiple same niche forums (traffic will spread the links for you).

    Most forum members belong to multiple same niche forums, they'll spread the backlink on multiple niche forums recommending other forum members back to your free files. The traffic adds up. Only post your free sample files in a single forum thread on a single forum, I can't stress that enough. Do not spread yourself thin over multiple forums/threads. Let the other forum members do all the single forum thread promoting.

    You'll eventually get to the point where you no longer need to post content, If your consistent for a long period of time you'll be burnt out anyways, lol, the long term traffic is worth the work.

    I'm not exaggerating when I say I have millions of internet shortcut links/downloads on niche traffic computers. I average 7 page views per unique traffic & around 3k traffic per day (extremely consistent & hands free now). The last couple of years I've rarely updated my sites, other than SEO & testing new things. Keep in mind I'm in a very small sub-niche, but I dominate that sub-niche.

    This isn't build it and they will come, this is a heck of a lot of upfront work. Here's how to create yourself an out so you can eventually stop posting free files on the single forum thread.

    This is key to long term traffic...

    Get as many other forum members to join in & start posting their own free content, in your case free samples of royalty free music. You want the thread to eventually be maintenance free on your part but still be a very active forum thread. Don't worry about any competition on the forum thread, most will only post 1 or 2 files & move on, that's where your consistent posting of new files creates authority.

    That's the basics of my strategy for niche download sites.
    • [ 7 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Man, this sounds really great. And believe me, I don't mind putting in the work, I can easily upload 3 to 5 tracks per day without blinking an eye.

      Unfortunately, a lot of what you're saying is over my head or is something I am having trouble pinpointing.

      For example, royalty free music itself is not a sub niche. There is royalty free dance music, orchestral music, country music, music for videos, audio books.

      I mean I know music is music but royalty free music is such a broad term in itself. I'm not sure if going to a forum (assuming I can even find one that will allow me to do such a thing) will give me that degree of a breakdown.

      Granted, at this stage I have no clue and will obviously have to research what's out there. If I find something that I think matches what you're saying and they allow uploads, I will certainly do it. I honestly don't know what I'm looking for and if I find it would I even recognize that I have found it.

      Do you understand what I'm saying? I don't know enough right now to know whether or not I've actually found real gold or just iron pyrite. And the last thing I want to do is go someplace, think I can do something when I get there only to find out I can't and get tossed out of the place. A lot of forums have very strict rules about what you can and can't do.

      But yes, this is certainly another thing I can research and hopefully find a little spot in the sand for. I don't need much. Even just one custom score a month is $12,000 a year which is more than enough to get me over the hump.
      • [1] reply
  • Hello old friend, been a long time, I can help, I had a few ideas when I came visited your website, I can see some opportunity, need to ask a few questions, so will PM, great to see you back, I think its going to take more than just content though. )
    • [1] reply
  • Welcome Back Mr Wagenheim. Glad to see you back. Without having the time to read all the other responses I will make my humble suggestion.

    If you created the music, write about it. An article per piece you done. Think radio Dj meets music producer. You can structure each article to talk about the resources used (readers of things like computer music magazine DJ Mag and so on like to know which instruments were used, sinths, effects...), themes, possible uses of the piece (this one is a march type so it would be good for an intro video or a fan made movie trailer) and so on.

    That alone on a piece by piece basis would give you a ton of material. On top of that you candivide your music by genres or uses or whichever way you prefer and then you can do an introductory/overview article for each section.

    PS: You could contact people like Videolean and other providers of video making material ( white boeard videos, animation and whatnot) to offer your scores alongside for added value. It could be that you don't need Google to make money, just the right partners for your product.

    I hope this helps.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
  • Maybe consider going more "niche" with your music. At the moment you have so many tracks covering so many styles ... and it feels a bit like you've gone for quantity over quality. Without wishing to be rude, as a reasonably deft musician myself some of the tracks sounded very much like what you'd expect from a Battle Of The Bands entry (with timing errors, cheesy lead lines etc).

    How about picking an application of music you really like ... such as "royalty free music for video game designers" and then build around that? This will let you focus more on quality, rather than quantity, and hopefully improve your results.
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Well, after going through this entire thread again and making note of all the ideas (a lot of great ones that my head is spinning) I have decided to go with Kurt's idea for creating dance tracks for exercise albums for download. I think it will give me my best shot at generating some income.

      Kurt, I understand completely that you have no intention on helping me with this after our brief JV together. The problem there was that I was doing something I wasn't very good at, wasn't comfortable doing and didn't enjoy. Now I am in my element and will have no problem coming out with a quality product. That part isn't the difficult part for me. It's then coming out with a marketing plan, business model, whatever you want to call it. After I have all these tracks ready to go I'm really not quite sure how I'm going to go about getting it out there. I will read your responses again and hopefully there is enough info in them for me to be able to figure out exactly how to go about this after the music is all done.

      In the meantime, I have enough work to keep me busy in simply creating the tracks, about 230 of them if my math is correct. And they have to be top quality, so this is going to take some time. But I have a definite goal now. I will probably open up a Clickbank affiliate program and then go and contact weight loss and exercise sites for potential affiliates. I know this means having to come up with a killer sales page. I don't know where I'm going to come up with the money for that but I realize it has to be done if I'm going to have any hope of recruiting affiliates.

      Anyway, that's it for now. Time to get to work.
      • [1] reply
  • Adapt or die.

    I've seen some of your past posts. Seems that your main problem is "adapting". Whilst this thread is a move in a positive direction, I feel you still have a LONG way to go.

    Good luck, you'll need it.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Thank you for your advice. In the meantime, I have finally put up an FAQ page and will update it with more questions as I think of them.
  • I can think of 2 things that might help that I WOULD like to see as your visitor. 1)A lot of us have tried to add music to a project...So time consuming and tedious...HOW about a forum ( small WF) where I can post my project idea and people can recommend complimentary music.
    2) Introducing XXX artist..interview them. This could go on many site ( YT) besides yours. This will drive organic traffic.
  • Hi Steven...

    I love this ... this is truly a brainstorm think tank ! A Master Mind Group if you will !

    Anyway, now my 2 cents ! You know a lot of this stuff already, I am just touching on some basic stuff that can still kick butt and may be the winning combination added to another few strategies you decide to implement and execute.

    I strongly believe that " Writing 7 Seo Optimized 1000 Word Articles Weekly" is still your best bet since GOOGLE loves CONTENT PERIOD ! The question is - are you prepared to do the work, to provide content for your blog.

    If you write 5 1000 word articles per week x 4 weeks = 28 articles per month x 6 months = 168 1k word articles that is food for google, I would also mix some of the articles and make them into larger articles like 2k+ word articles, why you may ask so long ?

    Google favors long articles, considers them more valuable then 250/500 word length skimpy articles, especially when you write with Latent Semantic Indexing in mind ;>) Now find ways to repurpose these articles some how and make them work harder for you !

    At end of the day, you will have to decide what strategies you are going to use to drive traffic, but you are right about gaming the system with google, not worth it unless you are in for a quick hit and run, and if you just simply give google what it wants, which is written content, you can not go wrong with written content that your market is looking for, which means free traffic if yours site becomes an authority !

    Tip:

    * write down your 3 primary targets......... rock, metal, electronic

    * go to barnes nobles to do research on your market, go spend the day there and browse through books, magazines related to your market, they already have done the research for you and are writing content your market are interested in, and start jotting down kw ideas, also ideas on content for articles for your site, facebook , etccc

    * these magazines that you find that cater to your market, you can submit articles to them, a press release to get free additional exposure, and google news for more distribution opportunities

    * now go to google keyword research tool, start doing kw research with kw ideas you got from barnes nobles, root keywords to get plenty of ideas for content and create content around that

    * WRITE SEO OPTIMIZED CONTENT FOR YOUR SITE --- do not use skimpy 500 word articles, use articles in the 1000+ which google favor more these days, applying also LSI Tems in your articles to make it easier for google to serve your content to your audience

    You only have so many hours in a day, and no money to invest, content is food surfers online and google likes to serve content food to surfers looking for your content
    for your site, so out of the many great ideas here, create a list of pros and cons on paper for the ideas you are considering to help you formulate a better sound decision then roll up your sleeves and get busy ...let us know how it goes later on and what strategies you decided to use that actually KICKED BUTT FOR YOu :>)
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Banned
    [DELETED]
  • Hi

    The search engines like honest, genuine sites with content that is relevant and informative. So do your potential customers.
    Good reason to create a site that presents YOU to the world. The Music and Videos are just a product. You are unique. Sell yourself and your brand. Yes include information about the product but also some about yourself.

    Tony
  • At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, I'm going to repeat myself:

    I really think that the quality of the tracks on the site needs to be upped. Considering there are plenty of sites offering unlimited royalty free downloads for a couple of hundred clams or less (and that PLR is pro quality) your site is, at present, the knife at the gun fight.

    Focus on building quality across a narrow range of music types, and then promote to the kinds of people who NEED that music to make videos.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Search out the high ranking sites in your niche (music; royalty free music - or whatever) and see if you can come to a deal with the site owners to provide high quality information for their site.

      Every site owner needs quality content for their sites, and if you can get some content on these high ranked sites, you'll generate some nice targeted traffic.

      Just an aside. These are just a few of the search terms that have been typed into Google

      Keyword
      royalty free music
      audiomicro royalty free music
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  • Steven, various thoughts in no particular order:

    • SEO on the site is poor - a page title like "Dance" won't help. If you've got the time/inclination build out a page per track with a good description, etc.
    • Fiverr: a bundle of tracks could work. And any other site your potential customers are likely to go - others have suggested Amazon, there are probably others
    • Put up a WSO. With your copywriting skills this should work OK. Searching Warrior Plus, sales vary but there's one from earlier this year with 500+ sales
    • Offer a free track in the War Room
    • Offer a free track in the Mind Warriors section - as others have suggested, royalty free music is used in that market and some will want tracks. That said, there's no search on your site and I couldn't work out where "trance" was (which is one of the phrases I'd be searching for in that market)
    • The site needs a search!
    • Think about putting an ad on Warriors for Hire.
    • Find out where people look for custom music and contribute to those forums prolifically and helpfully like you did here a number of years ago
    • $1.99 is too cheap for a package of tracks. I was expecting a price tag of at least $5, probably more
    • Follow people like Tiffany Lambert who are selling PLR article packages and morph the ideas/tactics across to the royalty free music arena
    • Not sure why you think YouTube isn't an option - a couple of videos on the first page for "royalty free music" with 100k+ views, several in the tens of thousands, others with multiple episodes on their channel
    With all the help in this thread and your track record of persistence, I'm sure you'll get back on track.
    • [1] reply
    • Thanks Trevor. I want to respond to the search function because that one has really pissed me off about this whole site. I told my web designer to put in a search box. He said he couldn't do it. He said because of the way the database is setup to pull the tracks a standard search box wouldn't find anything.

      So this is what I'm stuck with. I myself don't know how to add a search box that would find whatever somebody is looking for.

      As for the tags, again, something I should do but don't know how to add to the existing setup. I have no clue and have no more money left in my budget to pay him to add it.

      The site is what it is and I have to make it do until I at least earn a little money to invest in making whatever changes are necessary because I don't know how to do them myself. If somebody here wants to make those changes for me for free I'm all ears. I seriously doubt I'll have any takers from anybody who I know and trust because I'm not just letting anybody touch that site. I worked to hard on it to have somebody come, hack it just to be a jerk, and leave me with nothing. It's happened to me before on another project and I won't let it happen again.

      PS - I just went to the Wordpress support site and made a post asking them how to add a search box to pull from WP eStore. Hopefully, they will tell me that it can be done in spite of what my web designer told me.
      • [1] reply
  • Hi Steve

    My suggestion focuses on the market you really desire to reach - people that need custom music. Okay, that means you want to target people and companies that already have the money to spend $1,000 on your service. Immediately what comes to mind for me is film and video production companies.

    There are small, medium and large production companies and producers that are in constant need of quality original music for commercials, movies, animated shorts and videos. When they start a new project they budget for music. They do not need to be convinced that they need music, just who to buy it from.

    I suggest that you create a demo compilation of high quality snippets of music and make it available for download, and put it on a DVD. Write a letter introducing yourself as a professional music composure who is a whiz at creating genre specific original music for entertainment production. Do not come across like you are trying to break into the market. You've been doing this for many years, so you are on their creative level.

    Send your letter (or email with download link) along with a free demo to these companies. Find emails for as many as you can since you are low on funds. This would put you in front of people that may want to hire you for a project, or pass your name along to a contact. At the very least, you could establish relationships in this market.

    There are lots of production companies in these cities: New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Toronto. There are also companies in Illinois, Florida, New Jersey and other states.

    Here are several resources that list companies with contact info:

    Film Production Companies Directory

    Georgia Production Companies Directory

    Illinois Film Production Companies

    Northwest Production Companies Directory

    I hope this helps you out. I agree with an earlier poster that you will succeed if you go where the money already is being spent and throw yourself in front of it.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Start building a targeted list; then you won't have to worry about article marketing, SEO etc.

    You may have to invest a little money to build your list though. Maybe try buying facebook ads and targeting music groups?
  • Content is the king, and we all know now that the SEO world has changed a lot. Make user experience to be the number 1 priority to your website, and still wordpress is still the best.

    With the best user experience, your visitors will give you backlinks naturally, it'll make your site become high authority site all the time.
  • Your experience sounds horrible and scary - and I do appreciate the pride swallowing you did to write your post.

    If I may, I'd like to suggest that you may be looking at this through the wrong end of the telescope, so to speak.

    The result you want is traffic. But you're thinking is that the only source of that is organic Google traffic so you must play their game. (Which will take you ages - and probably for very little reward.)

    SEO is such a hard road!

    Why not, for example, put up a WSO for some of your royalty free music?

    Gather some affiliates and split the money - you'll have traffic and money in weeks, if not days. And you could then upsell to a membership model for more tracks, for example. Or just upsell to more "desirable" tracks - I don't really know the market, but you'll know what sells better than others.

    Start posting on video forums - there must be tons of people who need what you're offering.

    Add a track of yours to a funny video and post it on Facebook. (As well as Youtube of course.)

    I'm just brainstorming here ... and maybe some of this is talking through my hat ... but I'm trying to inspire you to think outside of this box. It sounds as though you're making a very hard road for yourself and I'm sure there's an easier, faster and probably more successful way than the one you believe you must travel.

    Think about the outcome you want, rather than the means of achieving it. That's all.

    Hope that helps.

    And best of luck!
    Trevor.
    • [1] reply
    • You know what the irony of all this is? My original business, which was very successful for many years, did not rely on SEO. In fact, you couldn't find any of my sites or sales pages through the SERPs if you tried. I did everything through articles on directories, some paid traffic, WSOs and JVs. Together, all those methods made for a nice income.

      So why all of a sudden do I feel I need to do things differently?

      It has to do with the niche itself. I've convinced myself that because I'm no longer selling "how to make money" products, the IMers here and at other forums won't be interested in my niche. They won't want to be affiliates, no matter how good the product. In short, I've convinced myself that I have nothing that anybody will care about other than the direct customers or Jane Doe who owns a NLP site looking for music for an NLP audio product.

      Maybe what I need to do is go back to thinking the way I used to think. I know articles on directories no longer work, but certainly a well written WSO sales letter and a solid product WILL work provided that there is enough of a market here for people looking for music tracks. And if not, maybe there are people here who would promote Kurt's dance CD idea as an affiliate.

      Maybe I don't have to count on people coming to my site in need of custom scores and hiring me to produce them, which is really no different than being a copywriter which I could have done but didn't want to get into because it's another one of those "you have to work or you make no money" niches.

      What lit my eyes up over this niche was my friend Kevin from Incomptech who makes $6,000 a month from people just clicking on the ads on his site. He doesn't even have to sell one track to do that. I figured I could do the same thing.

      What I forgot is that it took him 16 years to get to where his site is today. It didn't happen overnight. Yet for some reason I thought that within 6 months to a year I could be making at least a grand a month.

      In short, I was fooling myself and now I'm paying for it.

      So yes, I'm starting to work on my old business model but just with this new niche. I'm going to make those dance CDs just like Kurt says to make and recruit affiliates. If the product is good enough, I'll get them.

      Even though I am dead broke now, I haven't completely forgotten IM basics and the ironic thing is, if a student of mine came to me now with this same idea, I'd probably know just what to tell him. What's paralyzing is when you have to do it yourself and there's always that fear or failure in the back of your mind. And no, unlike a lot of people, it's not fear of success. I've had success. In fact, when my business started to tank I was like "WTF?" I couldn't accept what was happening to me. I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around it. So no, I'm not afraid of success. In fact, I'd be shocked if I didn't turn this niche into a modest money maker. I mean hell, I used to make $1,000 in half a week.

      I need to change my mindset about this whole thing. I need to go into it with a more positive attitude now that I've seen that this isn't going to be a case of "build it and they'll come" and do what I know I need to do in order to make this venture successful. And if it takes a year, it takes a year. I can't get all bent out of shape because I'm broke now. I've been there before. It's not the end of the world.

      Maybe this thread was just the kick in the ass that I needed to get off the pot and stop the pity party.

      Even if I'm not the greatest composer in the world and don't have the best music in the world, there is still a market out there for me.

      I just have to find it and tap into it.

      And you're right, I can't wait for Google to do it for me.
      • [2] replies
  • Hi Steven,

    It took a lot of guts for you to post this here. Hopefully we'll see a post in June or July saying how you turned this around and things are on the up.

    I have a more general question. How desperate are you? Do you need this income to survive, or are you comfortable?

    This will have a big impact on what would be the recommended course of action.

    If you need income then the best option is probably a full time or part time job. It isn't sexy but it will pay the bills - guaranteed. Work on the site in your spare time, and focus on one or two of your favorite methods given so far.

    If not then you can carry on full time, maybe trying out many more methods.

    It seems like you are looking for a proven method, someone to say 'yeah I owned a music site and I did this and it worked'. I don't think you will find it. I think you will have to try different things, fail a lot, and something will work then you can take off with that.

    But you don't need the pressure of having to get this to work by the end of Q2. That is where a job, savings, support from a partner or family member, or some other type of predictable income will come in.
  • I ain't no big business brain,unlike many here, but have a suggestion.

    Many people - like me - would love to better use video, but have no idea how to add music to it or where to get that music from. I didn't even think about looking for royalty free music online - dumb huh! - so how about a WSO offering a number of tracks plus a video/text book on how to actually add them to videos? The tracks would pull in those who know how to use them and the information would bring in the newby video users who want to but don't know how.

    Plus this would be useful for other niches, my jewellery videos would be much nicer with music added.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Katie, if you were here right now I'd give you a big hug and kiss. That is a BRILLIANT idea. It's on my to-do list.

      Man, so many great suggestions in this thread. My head is spinning.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Steven Wagenheim

    These are some of the points or items that may help in the processing of an article about the music that you write a paragraph for each item.

    BEGINNERS GUIDE
    "HOW TO MAKE IT INTO THE MUSIC INDUSTRY"
    1. LEARN TO WRITE A SONG.
    2.NEVER STOP PRACTICING YOUR INSTRUMENT.
    3.DESIGN SOME DECENT LOOKING PROMOTIONAL MATERIAL.
    4.PLAY LIVE AS OFTEN AS YOU CAN.
    5.COUGH UP THE MONEY TO REGISTER YOUR SONGS WITH THE COPYRIGHT OFFICE.
    6.LEARN WHAT MANAGERS DO BY DOING MANAGEMENT FOR YOURSELF.
    7.GET ACQUAINTED WITH ANY LABELS OR PUBLISHING COMPANIES YOU MAY BE INTERESTED IN.
    8.TAKE ADVICE ONLY FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE TALKED THE TALK AND WALKED THE WALK.
    9.DON'T USE JUST ANY ATTORNEY FOR LEGAL ADVICE.
    10.EDUCATE YOURSELF LEARN ABOUT THE MUSIC BUSINESS.
    11.How Can You SELL YOUR MUSIC?
    12.The basics about Digital Music Download's.
    13.Reasons Why A Band Needs A Website.
    14.Your Guide To Getting Your Music On Different Online Sites.
    15.Understanding The Industry Of Selling Your Own Music on iTunes and other Online Sites.
    16.The Facts About Getting Your Music With iTunes.
    17.Steps On Getting Your Music On iTunes.
    18.Learning How to Get Your Song on iTunes.
    19.Learning How to Get a CD Distributed Without a Major Label To Succeed.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Steven,

    Right now, you have a SERIOUS security issue on your site.

    I don't want to explain it in a public post, so I sent you a PM.

    John
    • [1] reply
    • Thanks John. Got your PM. Don't know how to fix it and my web guy is worthless so I can't go to him.
      • [1] reply
  • Hi Steve,

    Thought you might be interested in seeing this products that is sold via JVZoo: tunespack

    It was released yesterday and has already sold 250+ copies. It is currently a JVZoo top seller. Just goes to show that there truly is a market for you to sell your music in.

    Good luck!
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
  • Hey Steve,

    I see you really hurting for help, so here's few methods that can easily get you out of this pickle.

    Method #1
    If your site isn't getting much traffic and you don't have money to buy it, forget every failure and do what you know works, has worked for you and will work again. Write articles that help people learn about who, what, how and why they need to use your site, buy your songs or anything else you want them to do.

    Remember, Ezine articles wasn't an authority site on day 1 either. It took tens of thousands of articles to get them there.

    And the only way you can take a site from 0 to hero with FREE traffic is by creating content and sharing it. So create social media profiles and create some content that's going to help people LEARN about WHY they need your songs and HOW they can do it.

    Most importantly, do some SEO for your site. Do keyword research, create quality content, and then create more quality content on other sites pointing back to it. Don't complicate it, just create lots of fresh content and the Google will reward you. Just like it did before, it's waiting for your content again.

    Method #2
    Answer this question the best you can... What's the biggest impact someone like me or ANYONE else on the warrior forum could have working with you? Imagine if I spent $1,000 with Steve Wagz rot noaw........ what could you do for me?

    Could your techno beat increase optins for a video squeeze page of mine?
    Could your smooth jazz increase sales .5%?

    Cause right now... if you can do that... many marketers here have no idea about it. So why not show your skills and do some pro bono work for a few marketers in exchange for having them promote your service... only if you help them increase conversions with a sweet melody?

    Offer the full sha-bang in exchange for 10 marketers and you'll get traffic. You'll get $1.99 downloads and you may even get a few $1,000 pay days too.

    You're dead right about needing to focus on selling your high end services, and that's the best way to do it, right here on the warrior forum you love so much... just flex your beats and show us if it works or not....

    then....

    Method #3
    Create your WSO about how you increased conversions for people with one simple trick. Inside explain how you put music to video and increased sales or optins for marketers who weren't using it and anyone else can do the same. Include a link to your site to purchase music and create an email follow up sequence to offer your high end service.


    If you follow these 3 methods in order and start working towards promoting your site you can do a lot more than $5,000 this year. You need traffic, method 1. You need quality buyers, Method 2. You need another income stream, Method 3.

    There's no need to over-complicate it, ya know?

    But if you're not sure about it, you still struggle with it, or you just want an easier way to make some money while you get it going... why not write for money? I'm sure you're capable of writing $12-$15 articles in less than an hour?

    Even if you don't have money for another domain, you can set up a free site on blogger, ning, weebly or any other free platform and put a PayPal button on it for free. Then drop a line in your warrior sig and you're off to the races posting here and networking with old friends to drive traffic to a very in demand service.

    Most Importantly....

    Don't waste another second worrying about what another, successful site is or isn't doing. They probably have advertising fees you can't afford right now, so just focus on building a niche site the way it works. Create content and rank it, network to sell your high end products and then reinvest your money.

    Hopefully what you just read make perfect sense and you can start taking action in the right direction.

    I commend you for not giving up, and I wish you the best of luck.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Youtube announced an interesting upcoming feature where they will allow people that create cover songs to monetize those videos. This is something virtually all musicians should keep an eye on...

    Click the link for more info...I can't get the video to embed.
    http://youtu.be/jR8XBZRkkao
    • [1] reply
    • Correct me if I'm wrong but from watching the video I get the impression that what he means by cover songs is doing a cover of an established well known song like say "Stairway To Heaven" and uploading it to YouTube. Am I off base on this?
  • This may have been suggested already, but what about putting together a small package of free music for marketers, and giving it away in the War Room? Use it to build a list of users.
    • [1] reply
    • Gary, I may just do that once I've gotten things together and have some kind of funnel in place to help monetize the package. I need to have a plan. Until I do, I'm going to hold off on that.

      The good news is, for the most part, I do have a business model now that I'm proud of. I don't have to make people outlandish promises to sell what I'm selling. It's probably the first time in 11 years that I really feel good about what I'm doing. Let's face it, the MMO niche has a very bad reputation and I was getting tired of being part of it. In a way, it was a blessing that my old business tanked because it was starting to get to me.

      Anyway, thanks for the suggestion. I will definitely put it on the to-do list.
  • Here's some food for thought. You know all those viral sites like
    • Viral Nova
    • The Chive
    • Upworthy
    • Distractify
    • Beforeitsnews
    • BoredPanda
    • (and about a million others)
    They get traffic because of the viral nature of their stories. The nature of something going viral is when people SHARE these stories on FaceBook, Reddit and Stumbleupon. The viral sites in turn make a killing in Adsense income.

    Following me so far?

    Okay, now I know RFM sites won't go viral but you can use the same concept. here are a few ideas for you to toss around.

    1. Allow 100% free downloads of any of your RFM but in order to unlock each tune they have to hit the Share Button. In turn you're getting traffic to your site that you can monetize with Adsense or other advertising. It's easier to get a click than it is to sell...

    and/or

    2. Another plausible idea would be to charge $59 a year for unlimited downloads. That works out to about $4.95 per month.

    and/or

    3. Upload sets to iTunes

    and/or

    4. Create bundles and offer PLR on them

    I don't know if you will go for any of these ideas but it's worth putting out there and maybe it will spark other ideas you could do.
    • [1] reply
    • Mike, thanks for the ideas. The problem with downloading anything off the site, and I have found this out the hard way, is that the Firefox download plugin allows everyone to just download the track for nothing already. So offering any kind of incentives or making tracks free is moot. They're already stealing everything. I've had thousands of downloads already.

      The only thing I can hope for as far as the site goes is that word gets around and more people come and maybe I get some custom score orders.

      But I'm already writing the site off as a loss leader and just a way to get some traffic and exposure.

      I think between Kurt's idea for the exercise CDs and the idea I got after getting Easy Sketch Pro (probably one of the hottest items at JVZoo right now) I'll make enough money to get me over the hump, even if I don't make the kind of money I used to. The good thing is, I don't have to. $12,000 a year will do it. That shouldn't be too hard.

      Don't worry. I have it mapped out what I'm going to do. I'm going to have an affiliate program for the exercise niche and that alone should easily make me a grand a month. I don't think that's asking for much. And I think it's very doable.

      I will keep everybody posted on my progress.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Steven,

    I have a few questions to ask before I can proceed.

    What is your end goal?

    I would assume your end goal would be to make money..

    What made you choose to set up a royalty free music site? It's quite hard to make money from something that is free.
  • I'd suggest guest posting on IM websites because that's your target market. And more importantly guest posting on websites that concentrate on video production/YouTube.

    Guest posting will get your article where the target traffic is, and help you rank better in the search results.

    What Google want to see is websites in the right industry linking to you. What you really need is the right people looking at your articles, and clicking through as they're making videos. Guest posting should be perfect for you.

    Also I'd go with a few videos showing tiny clips of the different tracks, each linking back to the website. This will also help with SEO, while attracting YouTubers that are looking for music.

    Later maybe media buys on video creation and YouTube oriented sites would be a good move, though of course you'd need to watch the ROI like a hawk.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Steve

    Sorry to hear about your situation but you just need to recognise that you made it happen for yourself once and you can do it again. This time, focus on what works. Some awesome suggestions in here, particularly Kurt and John. Trying multiple options will get you out of the gate faster and concentrating down to what works.

    The fitness idea is prime and would set you up in a massive niche. The meditation and hypnosis route would also be a biggie if you got in with the right people and totally understand the marketplace.

    I personally use VideoBlocks.com as they offer Audio Royalty Free included, but they also run this site https://www.audioblocks.com/join/ which is just Loops, Tracks and Sound Effects. Take a look at their model. $79 per month or $89 per year! They also offer extended Royalty Free for $999 per year (you would need to check to see how far that rule extends). If you ran WSO's and JVZoo sales for annual membership with a good affiliate commission you could at least begin building up your revenue to invest back into more creation and or marketing as Kurt mentioned.

    Contacting potential JV's via sites like JVZoo and here on the Warrior Forum also makes a lot of sense. There have been royalty free packages launched with video, graphics and audio many times this past 12 months. Look them up and see if you can work with them or ask for a solo ad run offering up 75% or more in commissions to get your list going again in the right niche.

    Some other thoughts in addition to the great advice you already have in this thread!

    * Find some bloody good video creators, looping background creators etc and start your own VideoBlocks.com membership site as a joint venture. Then each of you can have your own "sister" sites linking off that if people only want audio, video etc.

    * Run searches in YouTube for Fitness, Work Outs, Excercise Routines. When you come across great videos with crap music, offer them your track for FREE to go with their video if they agree to put a link back to your subscription site in the listing notes.

    * Create a YouTube video guide on using their inbuilt video editor to add royalty free music etc. Sell it for $7 on JVZoo paying 100% commission then link to your site as an upsell for 5000 more RF tracks to use in your Video Creation with an annual membership, or pull together 50 great tracks and offer it as an upsell. Then link to your membership in the download and follow up emails.

    The other thing to keep in mind is how you can use YOUR product to make affiliate sales of other peoples products!

    * Find all the people who are launching RF video and graphics packages, video creation guides etc and then give away YOUR membership for a year for free as a bonus when they purchase via your affiliate link.

    The advice about targeting your core income of original scores is also a good one. It would not hurt to divide these two and have them as individual options.

    If you don't know how to make video products, shoot me an email (martin at iycltd.com). I will make you a 30 minute video for free and you can sell that on JVZoo with your RF music membership as an up sell, you just need to focus then on getting affiliates to promote it for you!

    Perhaps you can start a thread along the lines of "What would you most like to learn about video creation" Then your video product can be be based around that.

    Good luck and remember to spend more time on the doing rather than the reading here in the forum
    • [1] reply
    • That's not a bad idea. Do you know any good sites that have RF images that are free? I'm kind of tight for funds right now and purchasing enough images to create a whole slide show would be tough for me right now.

      These are all great suggestions. Here's where I need your help. Obviously to do all the above would take months if not years and be impossible to do all at once. So if you had to pick just one item above to start with, which one would you pick because I'm having a difficult time choosing one. So many sound so good.

      Thanks.
      • [1] reply
  • Hi Steve,

    At some point in time, you were the inspiration for all of us, who were new in the field of Internet marketing at that time.

    All I can see that the words, now which you are using, are all negative in nature and with this mindset, I am not very sure...How you will achieve ...what you are trying to achieve.

    I am not very sure, why you have chosen this niche...when you were not very sure about this. You have had mastery in several aspects of Internet marketing as such. Why not to create a coaching program or at least be in that field as such with the same mindset, which was there at the time when you were super successful.

    In the last few years, I have learned from this forum only that you should learn and earn by doing things related with your passion and that is where the long term success one can expect.

    My only request will be, change your mindset first, follow you passion once again. You already know these things which have been suggested in this thread to you. You just have to remind yourself that you can do it very easily.

    As far as this site is concerned, I will recommend you to not depend upon Google at all. As someone said earlier in this thread only, they are a doomed venture just because of their ego and position in this industry. They are losing us by not responding to our questions. They take all one sided actions without our wrong intentions. they don't even bother that we are creators and majority of us our best to give what people need.

    However, Create a list...Use Facebook, Twitter and Pinterest, Linkedin with relavent people. If you want to invest money, just invest in to create a huge list who are somewhat interested in your product as such. they will become your long term real assets. If the product is good, they will suggest your site by themselves, if not they will suggest you to change your product.

    I hope, this will help you. Please excuse me, if I am wrong somewhere. I really respect your toughness and zeal to come back with a bang!

    Best Regards,
    Vikash
    • [1] reply
    • Vikash:

      There is no way I could not reply to this and I'll say this as nicely as I can. You are making a lot of assumptions with your reply, mainly that Internet marketing in the MMO niche was my "passion." It never was. It was just a means to an ends. It made me money.

      Music has been my passion since I was 3 years old. I am now 56. This is the first time in my life that I am seriously trying to make money with my music. I've waited way too long as it is.

      Okay, so there is nothing wrong with my mindset. I am not being negative. I have a definitive four pronged attack plan for this niche thanks in part to some of the helpful people here who aren't trying to pigeon hole me into a niche that I now have nothing but disdain for.

      I know you mean well, but you are so far off the mark it isn't funny.

      I am DONE WITH MMO. I am going to make my music business succeed and it WILL succeed.

      If you don't agree with me, at least be happy for me.

      • [1] reply
  • It depends on the market.

    If you're selling only to musicians who do digital mixing at home, write reviews about the hottest new music equipment coming out. Or, videos of popular artists' who have written songs or produced albums using a specific piece of hardware or software. Then again, you might be selling to entrepreneurs and marketers who need background music.

    Either way, you need to start with some solid knowledge of who is reading. Answer the who, and the what becomes a no brainer.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Thanks for sharing useful information. keep it up
  • Is your customer actually marketers who are looking for music for their videos/presentations? That's the impression I get. If that's the case, I'd reach out and partner with presentation-building services like Animoto and the sites listed here: 6 Animoto Alternatives - TechShout -- give them a few tracks for their customers and then include a link back to your site where customers can get more (or more customized versions).

    I'm wondering why both of your threads have one star reviews. There's a lot of good, solid info in here.
    • [1] reply
    • Thanks for the tip. I will definitely check the site out. As to the answer to your question, haters gonna hate.
  • Well Steven I'd say with the recent mass interest in scribe type videos ie, VideomakerFX and Easy Sketch Pro then you have a massive market for your audio tracks. Why not reach out to some of the developers and see if you can do a JV deal or get a bonus on their back end? I'd also use Youtube too to drive traffic to your site...I'm sure you'd do pretty well here in the WSO section with a good bunch of affiliates behind you. It does seem daft to stick a load of additional unnecessary content on your site...if primarily it's a shop..it's just those feeder sites you want to be interested in as other marketers have mentioned.
    • [1] reply
    • Actually, that is exactly what I am going to do. I will eventually contact the developer of Easy Sketch Pro and see if we can't work out some kind of deal as I hear the music that comes with the software is pretty bad. I haven't listened to it myself (I bought the software as well) but I'll take the word of the person who made the comment.

      I have 4 sub models planned for my business. I am sure at least one of them is going to take off if not more than one.

      They're as follows:

      1) Music downloads - I am not giving up on this but it's probably the least likely for success.

      2) Custom Scores - I think as my reputation builds I will get more of these. Will probably be slow going to start.

      3) Easy Sketch JVs and Custom Work - This is my #2 go to money maker. I think there is a huge market here for JVs with the creator and other markers and also a market for creating videos for other marketers.

      4) Dance Tracks For Exercise Sites - This will probably be my big hit. Essentially, I sell dance packages for exercise buffs to work out to, all with certain BPMs for each group of tracks. I offer an affiliate program giving 75% commission and watch it take of.

      As you can see I have everything well planned. I just need the time to actually implement all of this. Creating the music is the most time consuming part. But once all of that is in place, I can begin the marketing part.

      It's going to take time, but I'm not going to rush this. I'm going to do it right this time so that I end up with a long term business that I don't have to worry about crashing and burning because of some Google change.
  • [DELETED]
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
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    Desperately Need Help With Article And Video Suggestions

    My fellow marketers. It took a lot of pride swallowing to come here and make this post considering at one time I was a fairly successful marketer. In short, Google slammed the article directories and my business model crashed. End of story. So I had to start all over. This January I put up a royalty free music site. In the almost 5 months since, traffic is about the same. I get about 150 unique visitors a month. The site has lots of music on it. By the end of this week it will have 5,000 tracks.