Single or double opt-in

by BaukeV
53 replies
So I'm wondering what you guys think about single vs. double opt-in.

I'm guessing single opt-in will convert better, but has a higher chance of bouncing, or am I wrong?

Has anyone done extensive research on this and is willing to share actual results? I can't seem to find much information on the subject, other than people's unfounded opinions, which seem to be different from person to person anyway.
#double #optin #single
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by orion87 View Post

    Has anyone done extensive research on this and is willing to share actual results?
    I haven't done extensive research: only with all my own lists. Once I learned and understood more about the differences between single opt-in and confirmed opt-in, I eventually switched from confirmed opt-in to single opt-in, across the board, and I started earning more money in each niche as a result.

    (Strictly speaking, there's no such thing as "double opt-in": nobody ever actually opts in twice, do they? It's called "confirmed opt-in": they confirm their email address before being added to the list ).

    Most of the longstanding, professional, successful marketers I know use single opt-in.

    There are many dozens of threads here discussing this issue. Unfortunately, though, many of the "arguments" adduced in favor of opt-in confirmation are fundamentally flawed and rest on fallacies of various kinds, which their propagators haven't quite thought through.

    Here's a thread in which this issue is discussed and explained reasonably clearly.
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  • Profile picture of the author jamescanz
    Originally Posted by orion87 View Post

    So I'm wondering what you guys think about single vs. double opt-in.
    From various niches I have tested, single always seems to work out better

    Yeah, the 'quality' of the list might not be as great...

    But you can always clean out emails who haven't opened in X amount of time.

    Normally, with 'double' I've found there will always be a good chunk of people who simply don't confirm

    (which could be for many reasons: laziness, spam folder, major delay, etc)
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  • Profile picture of the author gcbmark20
    Wow that's an old debate right there.

    I never use Double or "Confirmed" opt in.

    No one seems to mind once they've opted into my lists anyway.

    If someone is serious about getting more information from you then they'll stay
    on your lists no matter what anyway.

    I wouldn't sorry too much about it.

    And of course for further clarification you can always TEST one against
    the other from your stats via your email A.R.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Here is my issue with single opt in and please tell me how this isn't a concern.

      John Doe opts into your list to get your free report but doesn't want to be bothered with your emails so he puts in the email address of somebody who he can't stand. We'll call him Jim Smith.

      Jim Smith now gets your email. It is an email that he never asked to receive. In reality, you have just spammed Jim Smith. Jim Smith now reports you to your list manager. In my case, it's Aweber. If you get enough of these complaints you can lose your autoresponder service.

      How is this NOT a legitimate concern?

      As it is, using confirmed opt-in, I actually get an occasional spam complaint and even with just one or two within a few month period I get that stupid Aweber warning that if I get too many of these I can lose my account.

      So how is the real possibility of sending out technical spam to somebody not a concern?

      I would love to hear the explanation to this.

      Personally, I would never use single opt in. Ever.
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      • Profile picture of the author BaukeV
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Here is my issue with single opt in and please tell me how this isn't a concern.

        John Doe opts into your list to get your free report but doesn't want to be bothered with your emails so he puts in the email address of somebody who he can't stand. We'll call him Jim Smith.

        Jim Smith now gets your email. It is an email that he never asked to receive. In reality, you have just spammed Jim Smith. Jim Smith now reports you to your list manager. In my case, it's Aweber. If you get enough of these complaints you can lose your autoresponder service.

        How is this NOT a legitimate concern?

        As it is, using confirmed opt-in, I actually get an occasional spam complaint and even with just one or two within a few month period I get that stupid Aweber warning that if I get too many of these I can lose my account.

        So how is the real possibility of sending out technical spam to somebody not a concern?

        I would love to hear the explanation to this.

        Personally, I would never use single opt in. Ever.
        Do you actually have experience with this happening or heard of someone to whom this happened?
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        John Doe opts into your list to get your free report but doesn't want to be bothered with your emails so he puts in the email address of somebody who he can't stand.
        <snip>
        How is this NOT a legitimate concern?
        Because that's really only a theoretical situation. Unless you're trying to trick someone into opting in, or you're putting an undue emphasis on the free report, the instances of a potential subscriber "not wanting to be bothered with your emails" must be so small as to be almost negligible. The idea is to attract subscribers who actually want to be on your list.

        The best way to do that is to demonstrate on your site the quality of content you'll be providing, rather than just hitting them with the stereotypical bare squeeze page without any advance "warming up". Any extra enticement you then offer should be just the icing on the cake and not their sole reason for opting in.


        Frank
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          Because that's really only a theoretical situation. Unless you're trying to trick someone into opting in, or you're putting an undue emphasis on the free report, the instances of a potential subscriber "not wanting to be bothered with your emails" must be so small as to be almost negligible. The idea is to attract subscribers who actually want to be on your list.

          The best way to do that is to demonstrate on your site the quality of content you'll be providing, rather than just hitting them with the stereotypical bare squeeze page without any advance "warming up". Any extra enticement you then offer should be just the icing on the cake and not their sole reason for opting in.


          Frank
          Except it's not theoretical at all. As a customer myself of many products in the music business, I personally don't want to be bothered with emails. No, I won't give a phony email address but I will opt out after I get my free whatever it is.

          And the reason I feel this way is because I am already bombarded with so much spam (thank you very much to the spammers) that I just can't handle anymore email. I wouldn't be able to weed out their legit emails from all the crap I get.

          I have to believe that other people will feel the same way and won't be so nice about what email address they put in.

          Again, even using confirmed opt in only, I get list members screaming spam even though I clearly state before they opt in exactly what they will be receiving. It is why I deleted all my IM related lists. They just weren't worth the hassle anymore.

          Now can you imagine what a headache I might have had with single opt-in?
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          • Profile picture of the author buffnstuff
            Here is what I do...When I get email from people I have no interest in I UNSUBSCRIBE. If it is true spam and no unsubscribe link, all I do is create a rule that any future emails from that address or even domain, goes straight to my deleted folder and I never even see it.

            Try it sometime. It works at keeping what you want to see and eliminating what you don't.

            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Except it's not theoretical at all. As a customer myself of many products in the music business, I personally don't want to be bothered with emails. No, I won't give a phony email address but I will opt out after I get my free whatever it is.

            And the reason I feel this way is because I am already bombarded with so much spam (thank you very much to the spammers) that I just can't handle anymore email. I wouldn't be able to weed out their legit emails from all the crap I get.

            I have to believe that other people will feel the same way and won't be so nice about what email address they put in.

            Again, even using confirmed opt in only, I get list members screaming spam even though I clearly state before they opt in exactly what they will be receiving. It is why I deleted all my IM related lists. They just weren't worth the hassle anymore.

            Now can you imagine what a headache I might have had with single opt-in?
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      • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
        [QUOTE=Steven Wagenheim;9231742]Here is my issue with single opt in and please tell me how this isn't a concern.

        John Doe opts into your list to get your free report but doesn't want to be bothered with your emails so he puts in the email address of somebody who he can't stand. We'll call him Jim Smith.

        Jim Smith now gets your email. It is an email that he never asked to receive. In reality, you have just spammed Jim Smith. Jim Smith now reports you to your list manager. In my case, it's Aweber. If you get enough of these complaints you can lose your autoresponder service.

        How is this NOT a legitimate concern?
        /QUOTE]

        Here's what I do.

        When you opt in, you're redirected to my main offer. You get your link to your freebie via email. You're told you'll get it via email so give me your best email address etc..

        Works for me!

        Patrick
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      • Profile picture of the author hbhanot
        I was about to share the same. In the long run single optin hurt.
        Many user try a fake email or some other email to get the info..
        it will work if it was single and they just make fool of our bought click.
        On the other hand they will have to optin again if they use a fake email.
        To cover up your double optin one can add a attractive banner to a sales
        page or related niche on thankyou page to confirm their email to get the gift
        they wanted. A good lead is a lead who is really interested in what you giving away
        otherwise just a waste or a complainer.
        This is how I worked it out after get burnt few time.
        If you want to see an example just PM me.
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Here is my issue with single opt in and please tell me how this isn't a concern.

        John Doe opts into your list to get your free report but doesn't want to be bothered with your emails so he puts in the email address of somebody who he can't stand. We'll call him Jim Smith.

        Jim Smith now gets your email. It is an email that he never asked to receive. In reality, you have just spammed Jim Smith. Jim Smith now reports you to your list manager. In my case, it's Aweber. If you get enough of these complaints you can lose your autoresponder service.

        How is this NOT a legitimate concern?

        As it is, using confirmed opt-in, I actually get an occasional spam complaint and even with just one or two within a few month period I get that stupid Aweber warning that if I get too many of these I can lose my account.

        So how is the real possibility of sending out technical spam to somebody not a concern?

        I would love to hear the explanation to this.

        Personally, I would never use single opt in. Ever.
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        • Profile picture of the author YaniB
          I use single opt in, but I get Steven's point about not wanting to be bothered with follow up emails. I look at it like this though...if someone passes through my squeeze page just for a freebie and then unsubscribes immediately afterwards, it actually is a good thing because then I won't have to be worried about a subscriber who is never going to open my emails anyway. So they get what they want, (freebie) and I get what I want, (responsive subscribers only). WIN WIN.

          Yani
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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            I just believe that no one in their right mind would be so staunch as to ALWAYS use Confirmed Optin.

            You leave money on the table doing so.

            Not prudent


            Robert
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  • Profile picture of the author beasty513
    I have started out with confirmed opt-in.

    What I experienced was that most people that
    were opted-in wasn't confirming their subscription.

    I was missing out on some good subs and some
    still wont confirm their emails that they submitted many months ago!

    I switched to single and I been seeing greater success.

    You can just manually remove dud emails
    and non-responsive subs nowadays.
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  • Profile picture of the author vishwa
    I will prefer double opt in hence it will give genuine list subscribers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by vishwa View Post

      I will prefer double opt in hence it will give genuine list subscribers.
      This is exactly the kind of statement I was referring to, in my comment above, about this subject inevitably bringing out the all the "mistaken reasoning" and "fallacies".

      The point you're missing, Vishwa, is that if you use single opt-in, all those "genuine list subscribers" will still be included on your list anyway. They won't have been "scared away" by the fact that you're using single opt-in, will they? Using single opt-in instead of confirmed opt-in won't ever lose you a single person. It can only gain you some people.

      It would really help you to read this thread carefully rather than repeating all this erroneous stuff which you've seen people saying elsewhere.

      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      Name personalization is not as effective as it used to be, especially now that spammers are using it.
      You're telling me. "Name personalization"?? Let's not even go there (unless we want to sound like an insurance salesperson and wave a big flag saying "I'm just a spammer trying to sell you things" at all our subscribers).
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Single optin. There is nothing to be gained by using double optin.

    Name personalization is not as effective as it used to be, especially now that spammers are using it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Malteaser
    I would say single opt-in. Remember that people (especially the make money on-line niche) have a really low attention span and jump onto the next shiny object before you even know it ... so by the time they confirm that they want to opt in your list, you probably lost them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    Here's the deal yo.



    Single opt-in is the best choice if you're a newbie. I mean if you're a newbie and trying to make your dollars stretch, you'd literally be INSANE to have confirmed opt-in.

    But... If you're some filthy rich guru, and care ONLY about the *quality* of your list? Then it's time to engage a confirmed opt-in topology.

    Everyone always says there are NO ADVANTAGES to a confirmed opt-in system. But... Obviously there are a few haha. (I won't name them here, but if you're curious, feel free to ask).

    But, making PROFIT if you're a newbie is superlative to any advantages that confirmed opt-in offers.

    So... If you're a newbie? - Use single.

    If you're a megaladon rich guru, who can afford to cherrypick? Make them confirm.

    Also - if you're PAYING for leads, it may be insane to make them confirm under any circumstance.
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    • Profile picture of the author Riyaz Ansaari
      I've never used double optin, always single with no issues.

      I personally think it would result in missing out on lots of subscribers,

      as many times I just haven't bothered confirming when joining a list myself,

      so why expect others to.
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  • Profile picture of the author ErinWalsh
    I've tried either and always gave people the option to unsubscribe if they want.
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    • Profile picture of the author zenichanin
      Originally Posted by ErinWalsh View Post

      I've tried either and always gave people the option to unsubscribe if they want.
      That doesn't have anything to do with single or double opt-in. You can have unsubscribe options with either opt in methods.

      You should always give a user an option to unsubscribe otherwise you are technically breaking the law.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Del
    I'd say either or is fine. To me, with single opt-ins, you'll have more subs on your list but if they want to unsubscribe then they will unsubscribed. It's easy to remove them if they're not responsive to your emails anyway.

    I make sure my unsubscribe link is visible all the time. I'd rather work with a list that wants to be there. So yea, either or is fine, I don't think it would hurt your business
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    • Profile picture of the author beasty513
      I have doing single opt-in but have started with confirmed opt-in when I first started.

      I think that with single you can just do some list hygiene every once in awhile
      to get rid of the unresponsive subs that doesn't open anything in a month.

      It depends on what you are doing because I know that if
      I did double opt-in when doing a paid traffic campaign (PPC/PPV) it would be a disaster.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shem MD
    i prefer single optin, there is no big difference in terms of result compared with confirmed optin, I tried single optin and confirmed optin in different campaign. Both did not prevent my list to unsubscribe whenever they want. and both also gives good results when I make an offer.
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  • Profile picture of the author onedomains
    If you just grab emails without confirming you get a high bounce rate, and you can run into major problems with your upstream.

    We started grabbing emails 20 years ago, now any major site we operate does confirmed opt-in, or you will be eventually on RBL lists and such.

    So confirm your emails, if you intend to be doing this for a while.

    Any minor sites we have that still grab emails without confirmation, they basically go to the circular filing cabinet now.

    Spam is defined by most ISP's today as not confirming an email list, even if they 'opt in'.

    If you run a huge email list and have access to the raw files you will see how low the deliveries actually are without doing confirmation of emails.

    But you can get some delivered, but the bounces are high and you will see RBL notices start to accumulate by emailing large numbers without them being confirmed.
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    Some of the most successful internet marketers do SINGLE opt ins so this tells you that this is the way to go.

    I personally also do single opt ins.
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  • Profile picture of the author bhagabati
    Double opt-in delivers refined subscribers to your list.Research reveals that 67% subscribers are genuine in case of single opt-in.Most people do not opt for double opt-in which ensures less subscribers to your list.
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  • Profile picture of the author Samuel Adams
    For awhile, marketers were concerned about getting slapped with big fines over mailing subscribers, so they used double opt in. The fever over this issue seems to have died down, so that even large corporate companies such as HSN and Walmart are only using a single opt in approach.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery Moss
    If you are still concerned about the possibility of getting spam sign ups, you could use double opt in with a twist.

    Simply create a confirmation email that says nothing of 'please click to confirm'. But, instead include the header, 'your free download is here' and the link clicked on in the email goes to a page that actually confirms the email (making the subscriber double opt in) and then redirects or gives a link to the download page. That will cover your basis if legality is an issue with your autoresponder or email list.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMProductReviews
    I use single opt in which you will get a better conversion but you will have a more responsive list if you have double opt in
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by IMProductReviews View Post

      you will have a more responsive list if you have double opt in
      Well, please excuse my mentioning that I don't believe this for a moment.

      Not if you go about your email marketing sensibly.

      What you'll have is a smaller list.

      I think it's just one of the "big myths of autoresponders", several of which have already appeared in this thread with their relentless inevitability. The process of confirming their email address does not make people any more responsive. Why would it? It seems to me to be on a par with imagining that people are somehow, magically, less likely to hit the "spam" button in future if they'd confirmed their email address at the time they opted in. I don't believe that either. I don't think people who hit the spam button know or care whether they're single or double opted-in to the list. There are a lot of such beliefs around, though. They've all emanated from the Urban Myth Scool of Internet Marketing and are lovingly regurgitated and propagated - without ever having been based on anything realistic at all - by the adherents of the course-materials.
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Well, please excuse my mentioning that I don't believe this for a moment.

        Not if you go about your email marketing sensibly.

        What you'll have is a smaller list.

        I think it's just one of the "big myths of autoresponders", several of which have already appeared in this thread with their relentless inevitability. The process of confirming their email address does not make people any more responsive. Why would it? It seems to me to be on a par with imagining that people are somehow, magically, less likely to hit the "spam" button in future if they'd confirmed their email address at the time they opted in. I don't believe that either. I don't think people who hit the spam button know or care whether they're single or double opted-in to the list. There are a lot of such beliefs around, though. They've all emanated from the Urban Myth Scool of Internet Marketing and are lovingly regurgitated and propagated - without ever having been based on anything realistic at all - by the adherents of the course-materials.
        you are correct in that if you use single optin you get all the good people on your list, so what does it matter if you get the non responsive ones as well. So everything you said above is right

        except you don't factor in the fact that all the big email providers monitor, bad emails sent, all the bounces etc and then once you get over 0.01% bounces all your emails to that provider are blocked

        Just 1 in a 1000 complaint or bounce or bad undeliverable email will mean none of the good ones will receive your email, either it will go in their spam folder or worse it will never get delivered at all.

        only once your bounce rate has dropped below 0.01% will your emails start getting delivered again.

        You don't need to get spam complaints to ruin your email reputation, just non deliverable emails alone will mean your emails will never get delivered and you or the intended recipient will ever know they wern't delivered
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  • Profile picture of the author Fajar Sidiq
    My experience

    if using single optin usually visitors will only use a fake email to get his offer

    and if the double optin would be directly trained to be responsive because the visitor must first open an email confirmation right

    I hope I'm not wrong
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    • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
      This is an old, but always interesting debate.

      Integrity and professionalism is super-important to me, and I only want people on my list who want to be there. So I used to do only confirmed opt-in. Yes, I might have fewer subscribers, but at least they were people who wanted to be on my list.

      And then I started running PPC ads to build my list.

      In my personal experience building my list, most people do NOT confirm their subscription. Either they're too lazy, the message went to spam, they changed their mind, etc. Thus, I was actually throwing money away on those people and I was NOT happy about it.

      I have a very old AWeber account where I still pay just $20/mo, no matter how many subscribers I have. And they used to REQUIRE us have confirmed opt-in, so I didn't have the option to turn confirmed opt-in off.. So I called them to complain -- loudly -- about losing money on PPC.

      They showed me how to turn off confirmed opt-in. The only catch was that I had to create a new list. I couldn't undo the confirmed opt-in on the list I'd been using.

      People may put in a throwaway email address, but I've never heard of someone putting in someone else's name and email on my list. And I haven't noticed any difference in responsiveness or quality with single opt-in. All confirmed opt-in did for me was leave me with a smaller list and cost me more in marketing dollars.

      However, I do a couple of things with single opt-in:

      1. New subscribers get the freebie via email, NOT on the thank you page. So it does them no good to give me a fake address, or a friend's address if they really want what I'm offering.

      2. The autoresponders new subscribers get is a multi-step sequence very specifically designed to build value by providing resources to them, helping them solve their biggest problem. The sequence leads to a one-time-only special offer for new subscribers.

      This helps keep our spam complaints low while still also driving sales for us.

      3. As others have mentioned, I do occasional list hygiene, deleting people on my list who haven't opened my emails in a while. I'm also on a lot of other people's lists and have seen them do occasional "Do you still want to receive emails from me?" campaigns. If I don't respond, I'm automatically deleted.

      I think this is a better way to handle it. And I haven't seen any difference in spam complaints, etc.

      While Steven Wagenheim's point about people putting in a friend's address is valid, it's also miniscule -- hardly worth worrying about if you're doing any volume at all. But the IM market is much tougher, too.

      How you handle it will vary according to your audience and what you're selling. I'm not in the IM market at all, which helps a lot.

      I give away very valuable freebies and have invested a good amount of money in design too. I'm looking to build a long-term business relationship with my subscribers/members and have invested accordingly. People subscribing for the freebie and then immediately leaving hasn't been much of a problem for me.

      People who take the freebie and then cut and run like Steven Wagenheim hold no interest for me. There will always be a certain percentage of people who do that, but fortunately, it's miniscule (so far) for me.

      I own a trade association for a specific industry and we work hard to position ourselves as a resource for our members. If they immediately unsubscribe as soon as they get the freebie, it either means 1) we didn't offer what they needed/wanted at that time or 2) they're in the percentage of people who are just looking for as much as they can get for free. We don't serve those people and work in such a way as to repel those people as much as possible.

      In any case, we don't do confirmed opt-in anymore. Single opt-in only.

      Hope that helps!

      Michelle
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Thank you for that insight Michelle. You really make some real good points that I think are hard to refute... if you are a staunch double optin person you may have to re evaluate.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vasilev
    Always, always ask for confirmation... you don't need fake mails or people who can't click one more link on your list...

    if you are just going for numbers then single optin is fine... if you are looking to make money always ask for confirmation.... people'd know you are not the next person just trying to squeeze a buck when you ask them to go confirm their subscriptions...

    there are a million other reasons to ask for confirmation, yet it's gonna take me a while to list them here... will only add mails sent to single optins are very likely to go to spam(sometimes though)
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Vasilev View Post

      Always, always ask for confirmation... you don't need fake mails or people who can't click one more link on your list...

      if you are just going for numbers then single optin is fine... if you are looking to make money always ask for confirmation.... people'd know you are not the next person just trying to squeeze a buck when you ask them to go confirm their subscriptions...

      there are a million other reasons to ask for confirmation, yet it's gonna take me a while to list them here... will only add mails sent to single optins are very likely to go to spam(sometimes though)
      LOL, let the onslaught begin
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexander Mak
        Single opt-in works much better. Double opt-in is to prevent people using other peoples email to opt-in, and hence resulting in a spam complain. But honestly, how many people will do this? With double opt-in people are just too lazy to confirm the email, or your confirmation will just get buried under a pile of email and being forgotten. Double opt-in only works well for those established brand in some technical fields, for example when you want to download their white paper or brochure.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        LOL, let the onslaught begin
        LOL ... tempting, perhaps, but for myself, I decided it wasn't worth replying to that post: I think people reading the whole thread will have no difficulty deciding for themselves whether or not to allow it to influence them.

        The point (made there by inference, anyway) about emails to single opt-in lists sometimes being sent out from different servers from those used for sending out emails to confirmed-opt-in lists is correct, by the way: that is one of the very few genuine arguments in favor of opt-in confirmation. (It's just not one that causes me a problem, myself.)

        Whatever any experienced marketers, or indeed logicians, say in threads like this, the bottom line is that there isn't a way to stop people from saying, however irrelevant and misleading it is, that subscribers who confirm their email address are "more responsive". That's what they've always been told, that's what they believe, and they won't stop to think about the reality that all those subscribers who would have confirmed their email addresses successfully will still be on the list even if they're not asked to do so. It's not at all easy to understand why quite so many people have a blind spot over the inescapable reality of this, but for some reason, they just do. It's one of those "glaringly obvious, once you've actually seen it" things.



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  • Profile picture of the author LegendaryGuy1
    Banned
    Overall, double optin is a lot better. You'll have a more active subscriber base if they confirm the subscription. They may not confirm it though which just leads to them ignoring your future messages but they are more better in terms of having active users.

    I wouldn't recommend single optin however. Reason being is that if you offer a free eBook on the next page after you give your email address, how can you prove the legitimacy of the email? They could have easily just gave a random made up email address to access the free video or report on the next page of the squeeze page.

    Double optins mean that they must access the email to receive the bonus meaning they are more worthwhile in the long term.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Cosmo Demopoulos View Post

      People actually give the freebie on the thank you page? Isn't that insane?
      Well, it's certainly "sub-optimal", to put it mildly.

      Originally Posted by Cosmo Demopoulos View Post

      I ALWAYS email it to the address.
      I admit I never do this: I email them the download link and let them take it themselves. (My reasoning is that if I attached the free report to an outgoing email, it wouldn't hit their in-boxes so often - it might end up under "spam"/"bulk"/"junk" or whatever.)

      Originally Posted by LegendaryGuy1 View Post

      Double optins mean that they must access the email to receive the bonus
      Nope. Nice try, but I'm afraid not. That's equally true of single opt-in.

      Originally Posted by LegendaryGuy1 View Post

      meaning they are more worthwhile in the long term.
      Nope. Sorry, but that one's completely illogical, too: not even a nice try, there.

      Key concept: the process of confirming their email address doesn't actually make anyone into a "better" subscriber than they would otherwise have been: they're still exactly the same person, if you just add them to the list without asking them to do that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cosmo Demopoulos
    What am I missing?

    People actually give the freebie on the thank you page? Isn't that insane?
    I ALWAYS email it to the address. If the email doesn't work then no freebie!

    Starting a brand new list in a new niche very soon and probably going to do single, based in part on this thread
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  • Profile picture of the author VASEO1
    I have some question about double optin its liek many of my clients asked to make double optin but with the same email id users should only put their email at once and it should automatically go for 2 forms.but if anyone can help how we can make it its great
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  • Profile picture of the author mikeink
    Did I miss something in this discussion?

    Why is it that at times my emails that we receive from people we know will end up in the spam folder? But most of the times in the in box.

    I am on a few mail lists also and this does happen to me also. At times it ends up in the spam folder.

    We both both work for a property management company. Their email will end up in the spam folder at less times. 3 - 5 times a month.

    Then at times it is only one or the other one of us it will happen to.
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    Well let me see. OH yea need to start work on my ???????? again.
    Been working for slave wages to long.

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  • Profile picture of the author buffnstuff
    This is an age old debate, single optin vs. double. To me it's all about the law of large numbers. I use single optin, to attract the larger number of subscribers to my lists. But I also have my own self hosted autoresponder on a VPS.

    Why is this important? As many have already mentioned on this thread, that you will get bad email addresses on single optins, but the same can happen with double AKA. "confirmed" optins as well. So the point is moot. But if they never click on the confirmation link then you wasted your traffic. With a single optin you can start sending emails immediately rather than wait for them to confirm before sending, which may never happen.

    I use single because also as mentioned,by many, people are too lazy to confirm, it goes to spam or in the case of Gmail, the dreaded promotions tab and they never see the confirmation email. So now you have a useless optin that you can't market to so what was the point?

    Even though I am self hosted I am also CAN-SPAM compliant and have an unsubscribe link plainly visible. But also by being self hosted I don't have to deal with all the hassles and BS most have to deal with when using the big commercial ARs.

    Also when it comes to spam complaints, they will go to my ISP and as long as I can prove they opted in or someone claiming to be them did and I can prove there is an unsubscribe link in each email along with my CAN-SPAM compliance statement, I'm covered and don't risk my accounts being suspended. Unlike the big commercial ARs where I have seen people suspended for just one frivolous spam complaint.

    So depending on your circumstances I recommend single optins hands down.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by buffnstuff View Post

      This is an age old debate, single optin vs. double. To me it's all about the law of large numbers. I use single optin, to attract the larger number of subscribers to my lists. But I also have my own self hosted autoresponder on a VPS.

      Also when it comes to spam complaints, they will go to my ISP and as long as I can prove they opted in or someone claiming to be them did and I can prove there is an unsubscribe link in each email along with my CAN-SPAM compliance statement, I'm covered
      Hmmm I think your missing the point... spam complaints have nothing to do with it.

      The likelihood is that you don't get many spam complaints because the majority of your emails are just being binned by the email provider. your large numbers actually work against you in this instance not for you.

      Lets say you have a list of 15k

      5k of them are on gmail
      5k on yahoo
      5k of them on aol

      all it takes for everyone of your 15 k list to never get an email from you is 5 bad emails to each provider
      yahoo (and all the others) will monitor your bounce rate and if you go over 1 in a thousand bounces they will just divert all the email coming from you into the bin.

      And... that wont stop happening until you are consistently below the 0.01% of bounces they screen for.

      Its never been about the size of your list, it's always been about the number that actually gets delivered
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      • Profile picture of the author buffnstuff
        All I am trying to say is when you control your list you have more leeway than being with the commercial ARs.Commercial ARs make it difficult to use single optins.

        I have my bounce rate set to 2 bounces and your email is dropped.from my list. I have been doing email marketing for several years and my bounce rate is less than 0.01% using single optin. But if double or confirmed is your preference then that's a personal choice and your arguments are valid.

        This is an age old debate and we have all brought up many valid arguments for and against both methods. The bottom line is you have to weight the advantages and disadvantages of both and make that decisions for yourself.


        Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

        Hmmm I think your missing the point... spam complaints have nothing to do with it.

        The likelihood is that you don't get many spam complaints because the majority of your emails are just being binned by the email provider. your large numbers actually work against you in this instance not for you.

        Lets say you have a list of 15k

        5k of them are on gmail
        5k on yahoo
        5k of them on aol

        all it takes for everyone of your 15 k list to never get an email from you is 5 bad emails to each provider
        yahoo (and all the others) will monitor your bounce rate and if you go over 1 in a thousand bounces they will just divert all the email coming from you into the bin.

        And... that wont stop happening until you are consistently below the 0.01% of bounces they screen for.

        Its never been about the size of your list, it's always been about the number that actually gets delivered
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Yes, I completely accept the validity of Bob's points, of course ... though they haven't actually been relevant to me, either.

          For the first year or so I was listbuilding, I used confirmed opt-in, then had a period of building 5 single opt-in and 2 confirmed opt-in lists, but eventually switched everything I do over to single opt-in (from which I gained significantly, across the board). I'm not in any niches in which people are likely to fill in other people's email addresses, in the way some people have discussed above. Swtiching to single opt-in was all gain, for me. I don't intend to use opt-in confirmation again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sreeni
    single always works better
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  • Profile picture of the author tristatemedia
    i agree, single optin work just as good as double optins....even more money with single optins
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  • Profile picture of the author stews
    I haven't conducted any in depth research, but for "peace of mind" I opt for double opt-in. With double opt-in you are assured of not taking advantage of anyone and protects you from getting a reputation you don't want.
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    • Profile picture of the author passiveincomebiz
      Robert's points are quite enlightening. But Alexa's point about being in niches where subscribers are less likely to put in fake email addresses is also key.

      If I were building a list catering to people interested in "rearing chickens" I'd go single optin. But for list building in the IM field, I'd more likely go for confirmed optin (because of Robert's points)
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