What I Learned From Failure...Must Read For New People

104 replies
Maybe something good can come of my disaster of a marketing life. If just one person reads this and takes away something from it that keeps him or her from being a failure at their business then my failure was not in vain.

Brief history and then I'll get to what I learned. I urge you strongly to take this to heart. All of it.

Okay, I lost my corporate America job in 2000. For 3 years I looked for work but couldn't find anything at my age. I finally gave up in 2003 and decided to try to make a living online. My first year was rough spending 3 months doing all kinds of stupid things like paid surveys, paid to read emails, etc. Made like $10. Finally I learned some stuff that worked and for a few years was making about $1,500 a month. Nothing great but it helped pay the bills.

Then in 2006 a friend of mine told me that my mistake was in not creating my own products. Well, I thought about what I could create and I decided on a book on how I was making $1,500 a month. The book sold like crazy and the rest was history.

Since that time I had created hundreds of products, most selling pretty well. My secret was using article marketing to drive traffic to built a list. Yes, there was a time that this worked very well, especially using article directories.

Then Google put the hammer down on article directories and my business literally crashed overnight.

The traffic stopped, the opt ins stopped, the sales stopped, everything stopped.

Today, in 2014, I am starting all over. I took down all my "how to make money" sites and products (No way I can teach people to make money if I can't do it myself) and have gone into another niche altogether. As of this moment, I am still broke but I expect that to change soon because of what I've learned.

Okay, so just what have I learned from all this?

1) Never invest solely in other people's virtual real estate. I put all my articles up on Ezine Articles and didn't even think to put them on my own blog. By the time I did, it was too late. When Ezine Articles got smacked, something that would have NEVER happened to my personal blog, it essentially took me down with it. I was depending on another site to bring me my traffic. Big, big mistake.

2) Never depend on just ONE source of traffic. Again, if that source dries up, your business essentially dies with it. You need to diversify. Because you don't know when something will stop being effective.

3) You MUST keep your finger on the pulse of the marketing world. You need to know what's going on out there. Had I been reading up on things I would have seen the fate that fell on EZA and might have had time to do something about it. Instead, I buried my head in the sand thinking that Ezine Articles would always be the powerhouse that they were. How could they not be? Big mistake.

4) Don't be afraid to spend money on your business. Had I invested some of my profits into improving my business maybe I could have saved it. Instead, I was a cheap SOB who wouldn't spend money on anything. Had I done something simple like learn Adwords and spend some money on promotion, I could have probably kept my business going especially if I...

5) Create big ticket items. It's just as easy to sell an expensive item as a cheap item. The market is out there. But I was so afraid that the only way I could make any money was to make cheap ebooks because I myself was cheap and thought everybody else was the same way. Another big mistake.

6) Listen to the people who are sincerely trying to help you. I can't tell you how many people told me the things I were doing were not the best way to build my business. I was warned about EZA time and time again. I was told to build my own VRE, I didn't listen to anybody, I knew everything. After all, I was making a crap ton of money so I had to be right. Humble pie doesn't taste all that good, trust me. Listen to your friends, especially if they have REAL success and not fly by night success like I had.

7) Don't be a jerk. I was very argumentative and at times downright nasty to a lot of people because they tried to tell me that I was doing things wrong. As a result, these people who, at one time, might have actually cared enough to help me now won't give me the time of day. I lost a lot of valuable contacts because of my bad attitude.

8) Never think that you can't go from riches back to rags. I am living proof of that. It happened to me, it can happen to anyone, especially if they do any of the stupid things I mentioned above in items 1-7.

9) Concentrate on your strengths in building your business. Don't do something just because you "think" it can make you money. If you don't enjoy what you're doing, trust me, the early rough going will make running your business a terrible bore. But if you truly love what you do, even the struggles will be enjoyable. Right now, I am finally doing what I love. So even if it takes a while to become successful again, at least the time it will take won't be interminable. In short, do something you love because life is to short to be miserable at work.

10) In the final analysis, even though there are people who will try to help you, only you REALLY care about what happens to YOU. Other people have their own problems and lives. Nobody is going to sacrifice to make you successful. You alone need to pick yourself up off the mat and get to work and do what needs to be done to succeed. If you're lucky enough to have a business partner or even a spouse who knows the business and helps you run it, great. But if you're like me, forget it, you're on your own when push comes to shove. I have nobody to lean on as a crutch. When my business failed, nobody jumped in to bail me out. Nobody is going to be there now to pick me up off the floor. This is my responsibility and my responsibility only. I will succeed or fail by my own doing. The upside of that is that there is a satisfaction in doing it by yourself.

11) Finally, and this is what I hope you will take most to heart, you CAN make money online. I truly mean this from the bottom of my heart. I know a lot of new people who have never made a dime think this is all just smoke and mirrors and that it's impossible to make a living online. I am telling you truthfully that it IS possible. I had some amazing years that helped pay off my mortgage, credit cards and send my daughter to college with only one small Fannie Mae lone that has been paid back in full. We are now completely debt free thanks to my previous years success. Trust me, if I can do it, anybody can do it. But don't do it like I did. Learn from my mistakes.

I'd love to now tell you how to build a successful business but I am in no position to do such a thing and have no business trying to tell people how to succeed when I'm a dismal failure myself. But there ARE people here who CAN tell you how to succeed. Maybe they'll weigh in here and offer their advice. I don't know, but I can hope.

In the meantime, I am in the process or rebuilding. I am fairly confident that this time I will have long term success, though I am a little gun shy. Going from a solid income for about 5 years to now having made $300 this year has left me a little scared. What if this is it? What if I had my day and it's over? When you've lost everything, you can't help but think that.

But I'm determined to make this work. Other people have had failed businesses and have picked themselves up off the floor. I am sure many of them are here at this forum. Maybe they'll weigh in on this thread too.

Failure is nothing to be ashamed of. Only accepting it and doing nothing about it. That's a crime and inexcusable.

Winston Churchill said it best.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts."

My success was not final. My failure did not kill me. And God give me strength, I will have the courage to continue.

See you on the other side.
#failuremust #learned #people #read
  • Profile picture of the author DeadRooster
    Really, REALLY great advice Steven. #1 is so important and it's been a hard lesson for so many people. For me, things never really got going and I never made any real money until I came to the reality of your #4: Don't be afraid to spend money on your business. That made all the difference for me.

    Great stuff!
    Signature
    Get my latest book! Available in both paperback and Kindle
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247251].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author blueclcl
    What are really good post!

    Steven, When I first came to this forum in 2007 you was one of the main, if not the main warrior I always looked to learn from. Your products were great and always loved to read your posts - Still do!

    I notice you called yourself a failure and to be honest, I totally disagree with you big time- ur a warrior legend to me and always will be.

    I know you’ll be a success again!

    Good luck!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247364].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


    6) Listen to the people who are sincerely trying to help you.

    7) Don't be a jerk. I was very argumentative and at times downright nasty to a lot of people because they tried to tell me that I was doing things wrong. As a result, these people who, at one time, might have actually cared enough to help me now won't give me the time of day. I lost a lot of valuable contacts because of my bad attitude.
    Hope you are sincere. Even with your recent posts, you seem to be resistant to what people are telling you.

    This time, perhaps, you'll take the advice you seek and not turn off those who would be of help to you.

    Good luck.

    gjabiz
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247418].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

      Hope you are sincere. Even with your recent posts, you seem to be resistant to what people are telling you.

      This time, perhaps, you'll take the advice you seek and not turn off those who would be of help to you.

      Good luck.

      gjabiz
      I am, so if you have any tough love you want to send my way, let me have it. I can use all the help I can get.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247428].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author CliffUK
        For me this is an awesome post with 'gold dust' advice, and very open and honest of you to share your experience. Massive respect!

        I'll be sending you a PM too.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247463].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dmitridr
    This is a fantastic post!

    You know, reading this bears such similar resemblance to my own personal story. I agree 100% with everything you said.

    I've had multiple failures amongst a handful of successes, but overall my biggest mistake was relying on one income source (Google) and when that got slapped in 2011, my income literally diminished (not all of it, but gradually). I was going from $2000 per week to $500 per week in the space of one year from 2011 - 2012.

    So once again, definitely agree with #1, #2 and #3
    Signature
    ErrorDetective.com - The World's Largest Database of Error Code and Error Message Solutions! Get Paid a Generous 65% Commission on ALL Sales!

    SIGN UP AS AN AFFILIATE TODAY AND RECEIVE 38 FREE GUIDES ON INTERNET MARKETING!

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247422].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author celente
    Great to see you back steve.

    Do not worry about mistakes made, you will come back strong, fitter, and more inspiring to others.

    Heres to your success in the next 12 months! Go Git em' tiger!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247465].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    Good stuff Steve! Thanks for the share. Honest to goodness, being nice, and doing 99% of my creating on my own self hosted wordpress blog, and helping and meeting a TON of people persistently, helped create my success. Simply generating good karma will come back to you in the forms of happiness and success.

    Really brave of you to be honest, and the service you rendered through this post will certainly benefit many newbies and veterans. Agreed on these points!

    Thanks!
    Signature
    Ryan Biddulph inspires you to be a successful blogger with his courses, 100 plus eBooks, audio books and blog at Blogging From Paradise
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247498].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
    Hey Steve,

    Have to agree it is good to see you posting again. Must admit I missed your rants
    and yes your post giving good advice.

    It's amazing, as we grow older, how we can look back and see how much we
    learn from the success and failures in the past.

    Just as you, I put my primary eggs in one basket and then became convinced
    that it was so successful, I didn't need to spend the time or the money to continue
    promoting it. One huge mistake on my part.

    And because I became lazy, I spent thousands outsourcing work I could have
    done. I very easily could have done 50 to 75% of what I outsourced. Now
    at the age of 71 I'm starting to rebuild my online business.

    Will I continue to make mistakes, yes, no doubt at all about that. However I won't
    be making the same mistakes I made over the last couple of years.

    I would like to reenforce what Steve said about making good money on the internet,
    you can still do it. In most cases it's not going to be overnight. However, when you
    focus, FOCUS, FOCUS, you can see success.

    Best wishes Steve in your new endeavor.

    Ken


    The Old Geezer
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247612].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Hope
    Hi Steve,

    That's a courageous post, and you are to be commended for sharing that here.

    Can you tell us what happened with the IM-related list(s) you had created? Were those not able to sustain you at least some when your article traffic dried up?

    Jeff
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247630].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Jeff Hope View Post

      Hi Steve,

      That's a courageous post, and you are to be commended for sharing that here.

      Can you tell us what happened with the IM-related list(s) you had created? Were those not able to sustain you at least some when your article traffic dried up?

      Jeff
      The lists only went so far and eventually only a few people continued to be responsive to new offers. It got to a point where it just didn't pay to spend a week to create a new product to make $300. So I killed the list and closed up everything and started over.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247660].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Katie Rich
    Did you keep all of the articles that you posted? If so, why not build a blog with those articles and link them to the ebooks that you were selling.

    The information must have been good if it made you a huge income so do it again but this time do it on a blog that you own.

    Some marketers SELL their old newsletters and blog posts. You could do the same with your articles, sell 'em on as new blog posts for newbies. Keep some for yourself though!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247674].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Katie Rich View Post

      Did you keep all of the articles that you posted? If so, why not build a blog with those articles and link them to the ebooks that you were selling.

      The information must have been good if it made you a huge income so do it again but this time do it on a blog that you own.

      Some marketers SELL their old newsletters and blog posts. You could do the same with your articles, sell 'em on as new blog posts for newbies. Keep some for yourself though!
      My articles are now on my blog and have been for some time. Problem is my blog gets very little traffic so it doesn't help much. No, I'm done with the IM make money niche and have moved on.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247686].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        My articles are now on my blog and have been for some time. Problem is my blog gets very little traffic so it doesn't help much. No, I'm done with the IM make money niche and have moved on.
        Steven, It is unimaginable to me that you cannot earn at least $100 per month with Adsense with all your articles. If you put thousands of them under one domain, it could well look like an article directory to Google and penalized. You could consider splitting your articles into a number of different domains. You could use expired domains that have already backlinks pointed to them.
        Signature

        Do not get between a wombat and a chocolate biscuit; you will regret it dearly!

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9257816].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author javrsmith
    #4, spend money, is important when return on investment is considered. Too bad my ROI assumptions have turned out to be so incorrect.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247692].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by javrsmith View Post

      #4, spend money, is important when return on investment is considered. Too bad my ROI assumptions have turned out to be so incorrect.
      Here's the thing. If you don't spend money, you give yourself very limited options. I've sunk about $10,000 into my new business. Had I not done that, I could have never even thought of going into this business.

      Spending money is not a guarantee. Nothing is. But not spending money makes things very difficult for you. Not impossible, but very difficult.

      I spent 14 hour days writing to get to where I was and then look what happened to it? Gone.

      If you want to give yourself the best chance of success, you can't be cheap like I was.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247706].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Marhelper
    Good to see you here again. I respect your humility. I too have been humbled greatly in many ways and in reality it is a tremendous gift.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247709].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steve B
      Steven,

      Thank you for telling your story. Very few would ever share their private misfortunes as you have in order to help others - so my hat comes off to you.

      I have no doubt you will rise above the past and become a greater business success than ever before.
      "Don't be discouraged by a failure. It can be a positive experience. Failure is, in a sense, the highway to success, inasmuch as every discovery of what is false leads us to seek earnestly after what is true, and every fresh experience points out some form of error which we shall afterwards carefully avoid. " John Keats
      If I can do anything to help you in your new business just say so.

      Steve
      Signature

      Steve Browne, online business strategies, tips, guidance, and resources
      SteveBrowneDirect

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247812].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Captain Speaking
        Steven,

        Thanks for sharing. This is great and inspiring post. I know a lot of People will learn from your mistakes.

        You know, we tend to take mistakes as negative, and it is the natural course of being human, but once you understand, accept, learn and move on, you will start to see mistakes with different eyes.

        I know you will succeed, again

        As my friend Albert used to say:

        "I have not failed. I have just found 10,000 ways that don't work." - Albert Einstein
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247827].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Tim3 View Post

        It's no good, I keep seeing your thread Steven and I have to ask...

        You are obviously a competent writer, why are you trying to re-invent the wheel and not making a living writing?
        It's what you know best isn't it?
        I am doing what I know best, music. It's been my life since I was 3 years old. It's about time I started making a living doing it.

        Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

        Steven,

        Thank you for telling your story. Very few would ever share their private misfortunes as you have in order to help others - so my hat comes off to you.

        I have no doubt you will rise above the past and become a greater business success than ever before.
        "Don't be discouraged by a failure. It can be a positive experience. Failure is, in a sense, the highway to success, inasmuch as every discovery of what is false leads us to seek earnestly after what is true, and every fresh experience points out some form of error which we shall afterwards carefully avoid. " John Keats
        If I can do anything to help you in your new business just say so.

        Steve
        Thanks Steve, I absolutely intend to take you up on your offer. As they say, pride goeth before the fall. Expect a PM sometime in the near future.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247829].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Tim3
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          I am doing what I know best, music. It's been my life since I was 3 years old. It's about time I started making a living doing it.
          Great, more power to your elbow, then you must have a good knowledge of music too, so have you though about writing for music publications?

          BTW, can you play an instrument?
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247870].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by Tim3 View Post

            Great, more power to your elbow, then you must have a good knowledge of music too, so have you though about writing for music publications?

            BTW, can you play an instrument?
            I can play keyboard and guitar a little but I am primarily a composer. As for writing for music publications, it's a hard gig to get. Right now I'm just going to concentrate on what I think I can make work.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247877].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Ehsan Shujan
              Hi Steven,

              I am a new member of this forum & what i have learned from you today is simply priceless. Don't think yourself as failure because what you have learned from all these experiences will hopefully lead you to a level of success that is beyond your imagination. I pray to almighty for your success & hope that one day you will share your success with all of us in this very forum.

              Don't give up & keep trying. Wish you all the best.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247929].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Ladylavender
        Great Quote

        Ladylavender
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9268624].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Zack Lim
    Thank for sharing your valuable personal experience.

    I do agree with you that we need to constantly be educated with the latest things that is happen in the internet marketing industry. What works now does not means that it will works in the future.

    You have a wealth of information and I believe that you will be able to get back up again
    Signature

    FREE Affiliate Marketing Mini Course Reveals The Fastest And Honest Way To Make Your First $1000 Online

    Click Here To Get FREE Instant Access

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247752].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Tim3
    It's no good, I keep seeing your thread Steven and I have to ask...

    You are obviously a competent writer, why are you trying to re-invent the wheel and not making a living writing?
    It's what you know best isn't it?
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247763].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TheFranchiseMarketer
    Banned
    Sincere, realistic, honest, helpful, straightforward. I can go on and on about how powerful this post is. This post should remain first page on the warrior forum. Thanks so much!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247821].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author codyraymiller
    Thanks for sharing some very personal realities of IM with us and blessings to you for the future!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247864].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JohnRyserson
    Banned
    Glad to see that even through it all you didn't give up.

    As long as your at the plate taking swings you're bound to get a hit, and one day you may even hit a home run.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9247926].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jdunhin
    Thank you for being honest! Sometimes it feels like everyone is just using you to make them money. Hope to see more post of you!
    Signature

    We handle all your WordPress Content,Theme and Plugins updates!
    iAdminWP

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9248041].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Trey Morgan
    I agree with you 100%. There is a lot to learn from failure.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9248679].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Steve Garratt
    I too was hit badly when eza got slapped but a year later another traffic source spontaneously grew to take me close to previous highs. Panda 4 put paid to that and I'm struggling again but like you Steve I'm growing a new niche, one that I've played and worked in all my life and still enjoy very much. Very similar your story.

    Steve, I will be looking out for your posts as I did when you were last active on the forum.
    Signature
    Please visit my blog and if you have an interest in electronics then please join me at Home DIY Electronics
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9248836].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Terri Roe
    This was a very inspiring post. Thanks for the advice.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9248871].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author KloudStrife
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    Maybe something good can come of my disaster of a marketing life. If just one person reads this and takes away something from it that keeps him or her from being a failure at their business then my failure was not in vain.

    Brief history and then I'll get to what I learned. I urge you strongly to take this to heart. All of it.

    Okay, I lost my corporate America job in 2000. For 3 years I looked for work but couldn't find anything at my age. I finally gave up in 2003 and decided to try to make a living online. My first year was rough spending 3 months doing all kinds of stupid things like paid surveys, paid to read emails, etc. Made like $10. Finally I learned some stuff that worked and for a few years was making about $1,500 a month. Nothing great but it helped pay the bills.

    Then in 2006 a friend of mine told me that my mistake was in not creating my own products. Well, I thought about what I could create and I decided on a book on how I was making $1,500 a month. The book sold like crazy and the rest was history.

    Since that time I had created hundreds of products, most selling pretty well. My secret was using article marketing to drive traffic to built a list. Yes, there was a time that this worked very well, especially using article directories.

    Then Google put the hammer down on article directories and my business literally crashed overnight.

    The traffic stopped, the opt ins stopped, the sales stopped, everything stopped.

    Today, in 2014, I am starting all over. I took down all my "how to make money" sites and products (No way I can teach people to make money if I can't do it myself) and have gone into another niche altogether. As of this moment, I am still broke but I expect that to change soon because of what I've learned.

    Okay, so just what have I learned from all this?

    1) Never invest solely in other people's virtual real estate. I put all my articles up on Ezine Articles and didn't even think to put them on my own blog. By the time I did, it was too late. When Ezine Articles got smacked, something that would have NEVER happened to my personal blog, it essentially took me down with it. I was depending on another site to bring me my traffic. Big, big mistake.

    2) Never depend on just ONE source of traffic. Again, if that source dries up, your business essentially dies with it. You need to diversify. Because you don't know when something will stop being effective.

    3) You MUST keep your finger on the pulse of the marketing world. You need to know what's going on out there. Had I been reading up on things I would have seen the fate that fell on EZA and might have had time to do something about it. Instead, I buried my head in the sand thinking that Ezine Articles would always be the powerhouse that they were. How could they not be? Big mistake.

    4) Don't be afraid to spend money on your business. Had I invested some of my profits into improving my business maybe I could have saved it. Instead, I was a cheap SOB who wouldn't spend money on anything. Had I done something simple like learn Adwords and spend some money on promotion, I could have probably kept my business going especially if I...

    5) Create big ticket items. It's just as easy to sell an expensive item as a cheap item. The market is out there. But I was so afraid that the only way I could make any money was to make cheap ebooks because I myself was cheap and thought everybody else was the same way. Another big mistake.

    6) Listen to the people who are sincerely trying to help you. I can't tell you how many people told me the things I were doing were not the best way to build my business. I was warned about EZA time and time again. I was told to build my own VRE, I didn't listen to anybody, I knew everything. After all, I was making a crap ton of money so I had to be right. Humble pie doesn't taste all that good, trust me. Listen to your friends, especially if they have REAL success and not fly by night success like I had.

    7) Don't be a jerk. I was very argumentative and at times downright nasty to a lot of people because they tried to tell me that I was doing things wrong. As a result, these people who, at one time, might have actually cared enough to help me now won't give me the time of day. I lost a lot of valuable contacts because of my bad attitude.

    8) Never think that you can't go from riches back to rags. I am living proof of that. It happened to me, it can happen to anyone, especially if they do any of the stupid things I mentioned above in items 1-7.

    9) Concentrate on your strengths in building your business. Don't do something just because you "think" it can make you money. If you don't enjoy what you're doing, trust me, the early rough going will make running your business a terrible bore. But if you truly love what you do, even the struggles will be enjoyable. Right now, I am finally doing what I love. So even if it takes a while to become successful again, at least the time it will take won't be interminable. In short, do something you love because life is to short to be miserable at work.

    10) In the final analysis, even though there are people who will try to help you, only you REALLY care about what happens to YOU. Other people have their own problems and lives. Nobody is going to sacrifice to make you successful. You alone need to pick yourself up off the mat and get to work and do what needs to be done to succeed. If you're lucky enough to have a business partner or even a spouse who knows the business and helps you run it, great. But if you're like me, forget it, you're on your own when push comes to shove. I have nobody to lean on as a crutch. When my business failed, nobody jumped in to bail me out. Nobody is going to be there now to pick me up off the floor. This is my responsibility and my responsibility only. I will succeed or fail by my own doing. The upside of that is that there is a satisfaction in doing it by yourself.

    11) Finally, and this is what I hope you will take most to heart, you CAN make money online. I truly mean this from the bottom of my heart. I know a lot of new people who have never made a dime think this is all just smoke and mirrors and that it's impossible to make a living online. I am telling you truthfully that it IS possible. I had some amazing years that helped pay off my mortgage, credit cards and send my daughter to college with only one small Fannie Mae lone that has been paid back in full. We are now completely debt free thanks to my previous years success. Trust me, if I can do it, anybody can do it. But don't do it like I did. Learn from my mistakes.

    I'd love to now tell you how to build a successful business but I am in no position to do such a thing and have no business trying to tell people how to succeed when I'm a dismal failure myself. But there ARE people here who CAN tell you how to succeed. Maybe they'll weigh in here and offer their advice. I don't know, but I can hope.

    In the meantime, I am in the process or rebuilding. I am fairly confident that this time I will have long term success, though I am a little gun shy. Going from a solid income for about 5 years to now having made $300 this year has left me a little scared. What if this is it? What if I had my day and it's over? When you've lost everything, you can't help but think that.

    But I'm determined to make this work. Other people have had failed businesses and have picked themselves up off the floor. I am sure many of them are here at this forum. Maybe they'll weigh in on this thread too.

    Failure is nothing to be ashamed of. Only accepting it and doing nothing about it. That's a crime and inexcusable.

    Winston Churchill said it best.

    "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts."

    My success was not final. My failure did not kill me. And God give me strength, I will have the courage to continue.

    See you on the other side.
    This is the best post i`ve seen all day. Helped so much to see im not the only one thats failed before. The future looks bright
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9248897].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dayus444
    There is hope for a tree, though it be cut down, it will sprout again. Good luck Steve.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9248959].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author cshilling22
    Hi Steven,

    You seemed to be really good at niche keyword research, or did you outsource that?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9249187].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by cshilling22 View Post

      Hi Steven,

      You seemed to be really good at niche keyword research, or did you outsource that?
      I did my own keyword research. It wasn't that hard for the IM niche. But honestly, it didn't really matter. EZA sent me so much traffic just from the main keywords that I could live off of them with no problem. I would not consider myself anywhere near an expert in researching keywords. There are some people here who can dig down and really find the golden long tails. I just don't have the patience for that. Fortunately, now that I'm specializing in just one thing, I won't have as many keywords to go through, especially when it comes to the ones that will give me the best chance of converting traffic to cash.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9249227].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Taniwha
    Regarding #8:

    That's so true, and that thought should be there to not let you become complacent in your business. But one thing is - if that does happen, the knowledge and experiences you have gained makes it that much easier to get back to where you were.

    Fear of failure is a debilitating thing for many people, but when the fundamentals of making money is ingrained in one's mind - it's generally there for good.

    Look at Donald Trump, for instance - losing everything then making it all back.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9249267].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author w13
    What a Great Post !! Thanks for sharing
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9249377].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mrclean0325
    I miss your emails as they were one of the very few I did make a point to read.
    Signature

    Just because it quacks doesn't make it a duck....

    How To Avoid Work At Home GOTCHAs

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9249394].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SunnyDelight
    Very cool post. Like I tell people all the time. Fail fast! The faster you fail the faster you learn.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9249437].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author WhiteTS
      Originally Posted by SunnyDelight View Post

      Very cool post. Like I tell people all the time. Fail fast! The faster you fail the faster you learn.
      So true. Good post and best of luck to you Steve.
      Signature
      Even Internet Gurus Need Life Insurance !! Free Instant Online Quotes.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9261238].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Garcysher View Post

        great post Steven, attitude seems to play a huge part in success and we all have the power to change that.
        My attitude for a long time was pretty bad, even when I was successful, which is what landed me in this mess. I didn't listen to people who told me my business model was flawed. I figured it had worked for years, it would work forever. I was very wrong and now I'm paying for it. Point is, when people who know what they're talking about tell you something, listen to them.

        Originally Posted by LimitlessTraffic View Post

        Love these threads. Warrior Forum should have a section on it's own where people can share their experience and story. You will definitely succeed mate! Definitely!
        A success stories sub forum would actually be a great idea. Why not bring it up to the Admin of the forum. They just might go for it as new owners.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9263909].message }}
  • Great post full of wonderful pointers for newbies and veterans alike. It's easy to let success get into our heads and failure get into our hearts. You're setting a great example for all of us out there by having the humility to learn form your mistakes and the courage to turn your life around. =)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9249451].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author celente
      Originally Posted by John Jonas Phil VA View Post

      Great post full of wonderful pointers for newbies and veterans alike. It's easy to let success get into our heads and failure get into our hearts. You're setting a great example for all of us out there by having the humility to learn form your mistakes and the courage to turn your life around. =)
      Great post John!

      I think everything steven needs is in here, and is important that everyone tries to give back to steven as he has given some much to this forum over the years. I did enjoy his emails too. Very clear, concise and too the point.

      Sorry that steven got wiped out in the google updates, I did not see this coming as well, but glad we moved to paid traffic when we did. It has worked wonders.

      When we started online we had nothing. So first we started with FREE traffic and then moved up to paid banners, forums, PPC, PPV, facebook, bing, press releases, content curation.

      I think when you look at all these above, steven would be good at a few of these.

      The danger for newbies and people who get their business swamped is they start looking around for that next shiney object! And then the next one, and the next....u get my drift!

      I think steven, find one thing, and get good at it, and focus every bit of sweat you can muster at it, until it works, and you get it cranking. Then you will be off to the races.

      Yes since these crappy google updates have changed things, people have lost businesses, but the environment has changed, google does what they want, and you just have to change and adapt to the environment we have now, which is more a social and community scene.

      Me personally since we got rid of google, and their idiocy, we have moved in leaps and bounds, there is more than one way to skin a cat as they say (101 ways to get traffic to lead pages) and now you just have to adapt.

      Oh yeah, and SCREW GOOGLE, (yup ok, some will hate me for saying that) but PPC ads very expensive, and the chitty animal updates and so ridiculous, but like I said, more than one ways to skin a cat and kill it online. We are in an age where u should not rely solely on something like google.

      Good luck my friend. To your skyrockting success online in 2014 and beyond.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9249470].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Talltom1
    Steven,

    An absolutely fascinating post. I was here a lot several years ago when you were the main man here on the forum, and I had a pretty good opinion of your advice.

    Two quick things I'm contributing here,
    First, without the valleys, there would be no mountain tops.

    Second, I'm sending you a PM about something that I think will immediately click with you. Read it over and get back to me about it.

    Tom
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9249511].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Talltom1 View Post

      Steven,

      An absolutely fascinating post. I was here a lot several years ago when you were the main man here on the forum, and I had a pretty good opinion of your advice.

      Two quick things I'm contributing here,
      First, without the valleys, there would be no mountain tops.

      Second, I'm sending you a PM about something that I think will immediately click with you. Read it over and get back to me about it.

      Tom
      Tom, any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9249513].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Bradley McK
        Great Post Sir!
        Thank you for being so open and honest about what must be a very painful time in your career! Best of luck from here on out!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9251512].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
          Banned
          Steven, don't dwell on the past mistake, just learn from them and be better from the experiences. We all make mistakes, but we all don't accept our weaknesses and build upon them.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9251567].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author firehawk
    To fully succeed online it takes a combination of smarts against key business risks.Even big G is vulnerable to these risks.Just look at what FB did to the search giant.Always learn how to minimize exposure and gear up for sustainable growth.This is what you completely lacked and it's unfortunate you had to learn the hard way.The world relies a lot on crude oil which one day will run out.Can you see the point of renewable energy sources? Article marketing was your oil where eventually the Wells dried up.Always run worst case scenarios and figure how you gonna come out a winner.Change is here to stay .....forever.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9251649].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bigfoot12
    Best thing that helped me was to not in terms think of creating products, but selling other people products.

    (Either as Affiliate Marketing or Resale Arbitrage)

    That way you don't have to put in extra work around creating new products, especially when the world of creativity is dieing.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9251652].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author masterjani
    Steve, You are not lone here. You have the courage to accept publicly about your loss, that is the starting point to reassess and get the success.

    Many of us, including me learning from mistakes. This is the time for revival.

    Every day is new day for us. If one can go from riches to rags in a month and why not rags to riches again. This is marketing world, Even a single magic information will make you rich again.

    Search your own old computer, You might find that magic info.....

    Best of luck for your future.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9251790].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mdrosenkrans
    Steven,

    Even though you came across as a bit pompous in a recent thread I posted myself, I've got to say it takes some balls to open up your own failures to everyone here to learn from. So kudos to you for that!

    You are obviously a skilled writer and it will be much easier for someone like you who's been successful once to become successful again (look at Donald Trump, hasn't that guy been bankrupt like 3 or 4 times already?)

    Enjoyed the honesty and selflessness of this thread, hope some of the newbies can take some of this to heart and realize that making money online isn't just a pipe dream, it can be done, but just like anything it's not gonna come from just pushing a button....
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9251942].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author successchaser
      thank you for the valuable advice my friend. just like you did it in the first time you can do it again but this time you will do it the right way
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9253597].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author briankoz
        And please don't get me wrong. I am not knocking Internet marketers who sell products on how to make money. I myself learned a lot of what I did from just such products. But there is too much crap out there and the niche has a bad reputation. You yourself have to admit that. We are looked down upon by a lot of people because of all the con artists. So I'm done with the niche.

        I should have done it a long time ago.
        I can tell you that I've been in A LOT of different niches (still in several), and pretty much every niche has a bad reputation in the eyes of some people, and each one has its downsides.

        Yes, internet marketing can have hype and shady stuff going on, but all niches can.

        I have a friend in the photography business that was telling me all this shady stuff going on there. Whereas in the jewelry business that I had (still do too now although not a main focus), competition was cutthroat and did some highly illegal things. And you know what? Random strangers who knew I was in that market would sometimes ask if it was just fake jewelry or diamonds that I was selling, and after reassuring them that it was all legit and how the offline stores are often times taking advantage of fake ratings and the like, they still didn't walk away thinking it was all legit (despite normal retail stores often times use poorly regulated certifications and accreditations on things like diamonds to sell a cheap diamond as one that's much more expensive).

        And I could list off about a dozen other similar cases there. Even in music you'll find tons of shady things going on there. The point is that you don't have to be one of those people if you don't want to, but I do think you gave up a big asset that you just didn't know what to do with.

        - Brian
        Signature
        WebFire.com -- Over 25 Tools to Get Free Traffic, Rankings, Leads, and Exposure!
        MobileAutoresponder.com -- Build a Mobile List and Send Unlimited Text Messages!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9253646].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Heuristic
          Well written and a joy to read. Stephen, there is no doubt that writing is one of your greatest assets...

          To quote a line from a Rocky movie:

          "It ain't about how hard you're hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward - how much can you take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!"

          I commend you, sir, for getting back in there and for being so open and honest...
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9253899].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Robert Oliver
      Steven,

      As I stated in an earlier thread good to see
      you back.
      We who started in the early days of the
      internet have all had setbacks in our business
      model from time to time as the online world is
      ever changing.
      You did put out some good products that you
      should be proud of and did work for awhile at
      that time. I personally bought some of your niche
      packs, used some of the ideas along with mine
      to make money. Thank you Steven.
      Biggest mistake I made was following the next
      shiny object which work for awhile, but would
      dry up leaving me to move on to the next one.
      Good luck and keep us posted on the progress.

      Robert Oliver
      Signature

      It's Not Over Till I Win!
      Do you see the glass half empty or half
      full? The difference can mean success or
      failure.
      The simple things seem to be the most
      effective and most overlooked.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9257076].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        As to the niche packages, they were also made during a time when article marketing worked, which is how I taught people to promote these niches. Because that no longer works, I would have no idea of how to go about promoting these products.
        Another lame excuse. Sell the assets and let the buyer figure out how to make money from them. OMG. If you can't use an article directory you're dead in the water??? No one could possibly claim this is a problem unless they were looking for excuses.

        QUIT LOOKING FOR EXCUSES AND START LOOKING FOR OPPORTUNITIES.

        Why do you need to include some plan about how to promote a product? Just sell the product.

        All those assets could be used for websites, lead generators, affiliate content, extra material for someone selling products in the niche, bonuses, emails, to be repurposed into new content, etc. You've already said this stuff would work great on websites - just not article directories torched by Panda.

        Heck, since you're burning the assets doing nothing with them - add value and sell them with PLR rights. Let someone else figure out how to make money without using an article directory.

        Do you realize "PLR" is one of the most common terms used on W+ by people looking for products to buy? Many have email preferences set so they immediately get an email when a new WSO is posted through W+ that offers PLR rights.

        Steven, right now, in my forum PM box is a message from someone who was recently asking me how to make money. Here is part of what he said during our exchange:

        I am starting to get the impression the easiest method but requiring cash is getting about 10 good articles written in an evergreen niche and resell them as PLR.
        Hmmm. Someone wanting just 10 good article he can sell as PLR.

        And here you are, sitting on thousands of articles and hundreds of products and other assets

        What boggles the mind is even if you don't have a desire to be seen as a marketer, while you're making $12.50 per week you would simply sell it and say exactly that. You're done as a marketer so you're selling off all your marketing material.

        You've previously said you sold off some of your physical possessions to stay afloat. Get a grip on reality. Do I have to say I'm pissed off again? You're making $1.78 per day, selling your physical possessions, but you can't be bothered to sell your intangible possessions - the ones you don't care about? It's free money from your perspective.

        As I said before, if you can't do this find someone who can. Send Koz, Cortez, or someone you trust a PM to work out a deal where you license or send them all your stuff on DVD, they sell it and send you a royalty payment. (With any luck someone reading this will make you a JV offer.)

        Can't you just be happy for me
        You (not me) wrote a post about burning your assets, making nothing, and your failures.

        The unbelievable irony about the final excuse, you no longer have the desire to do IM and "hate" the topic and trying to teach others how to make money online, is that is exactly what you did in your post and in starting this thread. Your purpose was to "teach" others what to do in IM by learning from your mistakes.

        So no, I'm not happy you made a "teaching" post to help others make money in IM, and then turned around and said you refuse to do exactly that if it means making some money for you and your family.

        .
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9257279].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

          Another lame excuse. Sell the assets and let the buyer figure out how to make money from them. OMG. If you can't use an article directory you're dead in the water??? No one could possibly claim this is a problem unless they were looking for excuses.

          QUIT LOOKING FOR EXCUSES AND START LOOKING FOR OPPORTUNITIES.

          Why do you need to include some plan about how to promote a product? Just sell the product.

          All those assets could be used for websites, lead generators, affiliate content, extra material for someone selling products in the niche, bonuses, emails, to be repurposed into new content, etc. You've already said this stuff would work great on websites - just not article directories torched by Panda.

          Heck, since you're burning the assets doing nothing with them - add value and sell them with PLR rights. Let someone else figure out how to make money without using an article directory.

          Do you realize "PLR" is one of the most common terms used on W+ by people looking for products to buy? Many have email preferences set so they immediately get an email when a new WSO is posted through W+ that offers PLR rights.

          Steven, right now, in my forum PM box is a message from someone who was recently asking me how to make money. Here is part of what he said during our exchange:

          Hmmm. Someone wanting just 10 good article he can sell as PLR.

          And here you are, sitting on thousands of articles and hundreds of products and other assets

          What boggles the mind is even if you don't have a desire to be seen as a marketer, while you're making $12.50 per week you would simply sell it and say exactly that. You're done as a marketer so you're selling off all your marketing material.

          You've previously said you sold off some of your physical possessions to stay afloat. Get a grip on reality. Do I have to say I'm pissed off again? You're making $1.78 per day, selling your physical possessions, but you can't be bothered to sell your intangible possessions - the ones you don't care about? It's free money from your perspective.

          As I said before, if you can't do this find someone who can. Send Koz, Cortez, or someone you trust a PM to work out a deal where you license or send them all your stuff on DVD, they sell it and send you a royalty payment. (With any luck someone reading this will make you a JV offer.)

          You (not me) wrote a post about burning your assets, making nothing, and your failures.

          The unbelievable irony about the final excuse, you no longer have the desire to do IM and "hate" the topic and trying to teach others how to make money online, is that is exactly what you did in your post and in starting this thread. Your purpose was to "teach" others what to do in IM by learning from your mistakes.

          So no, I'm not happy you made a "teaching" post to help others make money in IM, and then turned around and said you refuse to do exactly that if it means making some money for you and your family.

          .
          You know Brian, something about the way you just said that finally clicked something in my head.

          You're right. If nothing else, I can just unload everything. I can put it all on a CD and sell it to one person who might want to do something with it. I don't know if any of the people you mentioned would be interested, but I guess I have nothing to lose by asking.

          And you are right about something else. I did make this post with the intention of trying to keep people from making the same horrible, stupid mistakes that I made. And believe me, I made a ton. I am more angry about that than anything else. I should have never lost my business the way I did. It was through total stupidity.

          So let me ask you a question, since you are trying to help me. If I put everything on CD with the intention of selling it all as is, do I ask the person to make me an offer or do I put a firm price on it and then if they don't agree, negotiate from there?

          The reason I am asking is this. I don't want to price myself out of a sale but at the same time I don't want to just give the stuff away. We're talking about literally hundreds of products. Even at just $10 a piece it's gotta come to about $3,000. I'm not going to sell it if somebody offers me 50 bucks. Do you understand what I'm saying? I don't want to be taken advantage of but at the same time, I do need the money and don't want to end up with this stuff just sitting on my hard drive.

          What would you do, again, since you're trying to help me? And I appreciate it.

          ** EDIT ** Okay, I just checked something. My niche packages alone (I think I have about 100 of them) total 8 gig of data. So we're talking about quite a large CD collection.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9257364].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author celente
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


            ** EDIT ** Okay, I just checked something. My niche packages alone (I think I have about 100 of them) total 8 gig of data. So we're talking about quite a large CD collection.
            yes, that sort of a CD is not just worth $50, so sell it for what you think it is worth. And package it up.

            We have packaged these sorts of stuff up before and made them a little pack, which cost $11 US to put together, with 1 & 2 CD's and sold that for $997

            Test prices too, if you go this way with your PACKAGING everything up. For us testing high prices (more than $997) or Less than $997 guess what worked best....yes not the lower prices. We actually converted higher and made more profits with the $997 price.

            And stephen I have seen your style and copywriting skills. THey are quite good, and you would be easy to make a few of these $997 sales....

            Then stop with the articles writing, as you already have. Move to paid traffic mate. That is a skill you will take for life. I know some big marketers here in OZ, they do six figures a month. But they all use PAID TRAFFIC NOW, and learn as much as they can.

            But I can see by your comments in here, you are starting to see the light, and that, the only way from here is UP mate. Alot of warriors have you back, and thoughts and prayers are with you in the coming months so that you can kill it mate. Hopefully my ideas have helped you a little.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9257653].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Radley24
      [DELETED]
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9257850].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        Steven, It is unimaginable to me that you cannot earn at least $100 per month with Adsense with all your articles. If you put thousands of them under one domain, it could well look like an article directory to Google and penalized. You could consider splitting your articles into a number of different domains. You could use expired domains that have already backlinks pointed to them.
        Derek, I earn about $10 a month off of Adsense from my blogs. As far as splitting them between different domains, again, I don't have the money to throw into a business model that has disintegrated on me. A domain for me, right now, might as well be a Lexus. That's how broke I am. If I'm investing in my music business, okay. But I'm not pouring money into something that's dead. It makes no sense.

        Originally Posted by Radley24 View Post

        Steve,

        I just wanted to say thank you for your post. It was enlightening, honest and I could feel your heart and soul in your words.

        I didn't hang around here when you were "killing it" online, but I do remember a thread you started, not that long ago, that shared your tough times and you were really, really down. This post is coming from a much better place and I am so glad that you are doing better and I know things will keep getting only better for you!

        This is a post I will take to heart and as I try to find my way online, I know I will keep your advice in mind in my action plan. Thanks again Steve, wonderful post.
        Thank you. I have no doubt that if I just follow through with what I want to do and forget this MMO nonsense I'll be fine. You don't throw good money after bad. My days as a "teach people how to make money" person are over since I can't make a lick myself. I'm doing something now where all I have to do is let people hear my music and then decide if they think it's good enough for them to hire me to do work for them. That's easy as long as I put out a quality product. I don't have to "prove" to people that I made money with it or that they will. All I have to do is show them that they'll get the best music possible for the project they want to put together.

        After 35 years of composing, I think I can do that.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9259885].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author cheehien
      Thanks for a great advice, hope this will benefit all...
      Signature

      Affiliate templates are not allowed.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9267949].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seosammy
    Man, I really wish I could see a "Thanks" button!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9252002].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      Steven, somehow, despite 16,000+ posts I seemed to have missed virtually all of them. Perhaps you want to address your WSO about Google wiping out article directories with Panda:

      ATTENTION: Panda Update Victims

      Discover A Foolproof System For Beating The Panda Update...And Grind Google Into The Dust!

      If you've been a victim of the Panda Update or afraid that YOU'RE next...this is MUST READ INFORMATION...

      From the desk of: Steven Wagenheim

      Dear Fellow Home Business Owner,

      Let me cut right to the chase.

      In February of 2011, Google unleashed the Panda Update on the marketing world and businesses that were raking in 6 and 7 figures a year were turned to dust...

      LITERALLY OVERNIGHT

      Maybe YOU were one of them. Or maybe you're one of the LUCKY few who have yet to feel the sting of Panda.

      But for how long?

      Can you be absolutely SURE that you're not doing something that could very well bring down the full fury of Google all over you and your business?

      Can you be absolutely SURE that you won't be wiped out overnight?

      If you have ANY doubts at all...this is information that you MUST have.

      When the Panda update hit, I hardly noticed it. My traffic remained steady in spite of full fury of Google and its evil plan to rule the Internet.

      It has succeeded against some...but it hasn't succeeded against me.

      And it WON'T.

      Not now...not EVER.
      Here's the deal about why this thread pisses me off....

      Since that time I had created hundreds of products, most selling pretty well. My secret was using article marketing to drive traffic to built a list. Yes, there was a time that this worked very well, especially using article directories.
      - If your traffic was from article directories to lists and that led to sales, as has already been pointed out you still had the list. If you can't find any quality to product to promote, even as an affiliate, there is a serious problem that goes well beyond what has been discussed.

      Since your WF profile mentions being a Copywriting Wiz, you load up your autoresponder with 52 weekly promotions of copywriting and related experts few would question as providing quality advice. I have dozens of great books, actual physical books on my bookshelf. Just promoting Dan Kennedy would give you months of promotions.

      I have my own products too. You know what I give my subscribers? A catalog of my products and dozens of selected, great marketing books on Amazon I own that I think others should also read. Anyone can make a catalog like that with Amazon and other affiliate links.

      - If the articles on an article directory are dead you could always delete the article and put them on your own website.

      I don't understand what the problem is. The first thing you say is "Never invest solely in other people's virtual real estate. I put all my articles up on Ezine Articles" OK. Just move them. As you say: "When Ezine Articles got smacked, something that would have NEVER happened to my personal blog" Again, move them.

      - If you have hundreds of products that sell well, why aren't you using affiliates to drive sales? I looked on Warrior+ for your WSO and found crickets.

      Basically, Steven, just writing this pisses me off even more. You talk about having all these assets:

      - Thousand of articles
      - Hundreds of products
      - Email lists

      And throw them all away.

      Don't claim you can't sell MMO if you are not making money. From what I can tell most of your IM products are not MMO at all.

      For example, here is one of your dead WSOs:

      344 Aquariums

      $400 Per Sale

      1 Free Report 14 Pages
      1 Ecover
      5 Squeeze Pages
      1 Video Squeeze Page
      7 Part Autoresponder Series
      1 Video
      1 Spreadsheet2 with keywords
      1 Product List
      Do I need to repeat what this asset has (more assets!):

      - Content
      - Graphics
      - Squeeze Pages
      - Video
      - Keyword research
      - Product research

      Anyone can sell that without claiming it will make a certain amount of money each money.

      WHY AREN'T YOU IN THAT NICHE USING YOUR OWN FRIGGIN' PRODUCT?

      You have dozens of them.

      I know this post is harsh. Intentionally so. You need a kick in the butt.

      Instead of just throwing all those years and thousands of hours into the fire, burning all your assets, have a fire sale. Bundle up a few thousand articles and a hundred IM products, plus already done emails proven to generate sales. As a copywriting wiz that should not be difficult to sell.

      If it is, find someone else to sell and accept royalty payments.

      Good gosh, if there is one thing I can't stand is woe is me, I'm sitting on a mountain of assets, and I'm broke because I'm not using any of them and only making $300 in half a year.

      I don't even know what your job was that somehow you couldn't find another one in three years - during the boom years of the economy. All I read was some excuse. What I didn't read was the skills and information acquired from that work. In other words, more assets not put to use and apparently burned.

      Steven, I don't think you've learned anything at all. What I read was you burning your assets twice and are starting over once again.

      Apparently, this other niche you are now exploring, at about $50 per month, still involves the Internet. You are still trying to make money online, but it is just not the IM niche. Join the club of everyone else in the world with a website. Use everything you have already learned, and what is in your thousands of articles, MMO products, and emails.

      IMHO, your biggest mistake is not mentioned in your post at all. It is failing to identify your assets and make use of them. Actually use your own stuff and then if something works to spin-it off for extra cash as an IM product.

      Maybe take some of those hundreds of products, update them with lessons learned, re-submit them as a product here and other places, and for goodness sake use a service like W+ or JVZoo where affiliates can send you traffic.

      Heck, if, as you say your money came from lists you could give affiliates 100% commissions, essentially substituting affiliates for EzineArticles as a free traffic source, and then using your existing email sequences to drive subsequent sales.

      .
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9255070].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
        Steven, you are definitely not a failure. If you have made over $100,000 cumulatively, you are in an elite club of IMers. My business has tanked as well and I don't consider myself a failure.

        I would consider your business to be quite diversified as well as you sold your own products and had a sizable list as well. There was probably some bad luck as well. Although I would say that fact that Ezinearticles was going to be hammered was very predictable. I would also agree that you should have spent more money instead of taking everything on yourself. I also did not think that you had to rush paying off your mortgage as they would deplete your cash reserves.

        I did plan for failure in my business because I knew it was very risky. I switched from e-commerce into selling links because the latter was so much easier. I was earning over $500 per day for many months until Google started clamped down in 2008. Still I managed to linger on until last year. That was when the link market was flooded with domains with a false high PR because of a Google loophole. My link sales finally tanked completely when Google went after the link brokers one by one.

        I thought I had diversified by then through PPC affiliate marketing but disaster struck there as well. But that had nothing to do with Google. I sold more than $600,000 of products for my main merchant last year. Suddenly, they decided to cut their commission rate across the board by 25% and reduce the tracking period by the amount as well. But the worse was to come, my conversion rate suddenly dropped from over 4% to just over 2%. It seems that the merchant may have done something with their tracking and they seem to admit when I approached them.

        This all happened between October and December last year and I am struggling to earn over $1000 a month since then. However, my PPC methods are still intact and I actually got much better. So I am waiting to find other merchants who may work. I suppose I can still go into e-commerce again selling the same type of products I promoted as an affiliate before. I am still a bit shocked though that my business which I thought was quite a bit diversified could be hit like this within a short period.

        Derek
        Signature

        Do not get between a wombat and a chocolate biscuit; you will regret it dearly!

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9255486].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          A lot to respond to this morning. So I'll take it one step at a time.

          Brian

          Originally Posted by briankoz View Post

          I can tell you that I've been in A LOT of different niches (still in several), and pretty much every niche has a bad reputation in the eyes of some people, and each one has its downsides.

          <SNIP>

          And I could list off about a dozen other similar cases there. Even in music you'll find tons of shady things going on there. The point is that you don't have to be one of those people if you don't want to, but I do think you gave up a big asset that you just didn't know what to do with.

          - Brian
          Yes Brian, a lot of niches have bad reps. No argument there. But what I'm doing, a customer would really have to search hard to find something to complain about. I'll be selling dance workout music CDs where the customer can listen to each sample right on the sales page to see if he likes the music. If he does, he buys it, if he doesn't, he doesn't.

          No promises of any kind other than you'll have music to listen to while you're exercising so you won't be bored.

          As for my custom scores, no promises there either other than they'll get the kind of music they're looking for, for their video or whatever. I don't have to guarantee that they'll make a gazillion dollars or anything like that.

          It's just an easier niche to please people and nowhere near the number of objections that somebody can and does have when it comes to making money online. I don't have to prove I make any amount of money. The proof of my work is in the music itself which they can hear beforehand. It's just all around easier, plus it's something I really enjoy. So why would I go back to something I grew to hate? Makes no sense.

          Brendon

          Originally Posted by Brendon Zahrndt View Post

          "I'd love to now tell you how to build a successful business but I am in no position to do such a thing and have no business trying to tell people how to succeed when I'm a dismal failure myself."

          This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

          That's a tough love statement that is meant to encourage you to put some sort of micro coaching program together ASAP and start selling the damn thing - because your experiences - good, bad, or ugly, trump 99% of the individuals who peruse this forum looking for someone to give it to them straight.

          I remember purchasing a product of yours years ago and experiencing some nice results with it.

          <SNIP>

          Seriously.

          Success is subjective dude.

          There are legions of people on this forum secretly begging for your expertise.

          Get reacquainted and make it work brother.

          You could have even turned this post into a WSO and sold it. No hype.

          Good to see you back sniffing around both here and on social media.

          Coaching.

          Get on it.

          Brendon
          On the surface, what you say makes a lot of sense. Here's the reality though. I had a coaching program and in order to get any clients I had to show my success. They wanted to see what products I had, what sites I had. But even if they didn't, I don't personally feel comfortable coaching today.

          What happens when somebody asks me how to get traffic to their site? What do I tell them when I can't get traffic to my own sites?

          Plus, and here's the biggest problem money wise, if I'm going to go into coaching, I'm charging $100 per day, which is damn cheap. That's $3,000 a month. You think there's even ONE person at this whole forum who would pay me $3,000 a month to coach them? That's laughable. I couldn't get that kind of money when I was doing well. Coaching is a crap ton of work and I'm not doing it for peanuts, period.

          Again, as I told Brian, I am fed up with the whole MMO thing and am FINALLY doing something I enjoy. So why is everybody so hell bent on getting me to do something I detest?

          Do you people take this personally and as a slap in the face that I want nothing to do with MMO anymore? If so, I'm sorry you feel that way but I'm done with it. I have a plan now, I'm going to execute that plan and I'm going to be successful with that plan.

          Tsnyder

          Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

          Steven... we've both been around here a long time... you're a blunt
          speaker... I'm a blunt speaker... so let's get down to it!

          You mentioned in one of your points that attitude was a problem
          at one time. It still is. Your recent posts drip of negativity.

          Time to pull your head out of your nether regions and stop beating yourself to death.

          You aren't even in the same neighborhood with dismal failure... you can't
          even see it from where you are. You have been a great success. You paid
          off your mortgage... that's a measure of financial security that most will
          never enjoy. You paid off your credit cards and are debt free... that's gotta
          put you in a pretty damn rare club these days. Most of all... you were able to
          send your Daughter to college to get a good education. HELLOOOO????

          No, Steven... you are not a dismal failure... you are a resounding SUCCESS!!!!

          There are many ways to become successful in the marketing world. You were
          smart enough to learn one way. Surely, you're smart enough to learn another.

          The first step is to have a little faith... in yourself... in your abilities.

          Stop poisoning your mind with all that negative crap and move forward!

          We all know you can do it... who are you to doubt all of us?
          To clarify about my attitude problem, I was referring about my problem with taking advice from other people because I thought I knew it all. I was a real cocky SOB and I paid dearly for it.

          What you see today, that you call a negative attitude, is human concern. When you've seen your business crumble before your eyes, it's normal to be worried. It's normal to have doubts. I am not a robot for God's sake. Can you not understand how I can maybe have doubts about my future? But as I told Brian, I have a plan now, I'm going to execute that plan and I'm going to succeed with that plan. I have no choice. Am I worried? Of course I am. Of course there is that doubt in the back of my mind. I'm afraid that if I don't start making money soon my wife is going to throw me out on the street. I've got a lot of pressure on me because this isn't the first time I've been in a situation where I was broke.

          So please forgive me for not being iron man and showing some signs of weakness. We're not all supermen. I'm doing my best. As long as I work at this everyday and take the advice I've been given on how to make the music thing work, I should be okay. But until I actually SEE the money start coming in, yes, I'm going to be worried.

          I think that's perfectly natural AND understandable.

          Rod

          Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

          I've never understood the logic when someone tells me they are "done" with the MMO niche because of the scam artists or the shady people (which every industry has).

          Isn't that even more reason to participate and make sure you're one of the good guys providing value to your customer base?

          Less than 1% of my income comes from the MMO market, but I make sure that I put out quality and take care of my customers. Our industry has a bad name because of a few bad apples and I bellieve it's our duty to combat that and one way of doing it is by being one of the good guys, regardless of the niche you're in.

          RoD
          My good friend. You have been supportive of me for so long. I am going to take you up on your kind offer soon.

          It's really simple Rod. I'm just plane burnt out on the MMO niche. I don't feel comfortable in it anymore. And having my business crumble like it did, I don't feel comfortable in creating products in it and I was never much of an affiliate marketer. If I don't have confidence in my own ability, something that was NEVER a problem before, how can I possibly present the kind of presence I need to present in order to get people to buy anything from me?

          It was hard enough when I was making near 5 figures a month. Even then I still had my share of people calling me a con, a fake, a crook, you name it. I won't even get into all the serial refunders and people who outright stole my products and then turned around and sold them as their own. Yeah, I know, that can happen in any niche.But MMO just had too much bad taste for me.

          And like I've told everybody before in this way too long reply, I am finally really enjoying what I'm doing. So why would I go back to do something that I grew to hate? Makes no sense.

          I'm sure you can understand that.

          Brian

          Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

          Steven, somehow, despite 16,000+ posts I seemed to have missed virtually all of them. Perhaps you want to address your WSO about Google wiping out article directories with Panda:

          Here's the deal about why this thread pisses me off....

          - If your traffic was from article directories to lists and that led to sales, as has already been pointed out you still had the list. If you can't find any quality to product to promote, even as an affiliate, there is a serious problem that goes well beyond what has been discussed.

          Since your WF profile mentions being a Copywriting Wiz, you load up your autoresponder with 52 weekly promotions of copywriting and related experts few would question as providing quality advice. I have dozens of great books, actual physical books on my bookshelf. Just promoting Dan Kennedy would give you months of promotions.

          I have my own products too. You know what I give my subscribers? A catalog of my products and dozens of selected, great marketing books on Amazon I own that I think others should also read. Anyone can make a catalog like that with Amazon and other affiliate links.

          - If the articles on an article directory are dead you could always delete the article and put them on your own website.

          I don't understand what the problem is. The first thing you say is "Never invest solely in other people's virtual real estate. I put all my articles up on Ezine Articles" OK. Just move them. As you say: "When Ezine Articles got smacked, something that would have NEVER happened to my personal blog" Again, move them.

          - If you have hundreds of products that sell well, why aren't you using affiliates to drive sales? I looked on Warrior+ for your WSO and found crickets.

          Basically, Steven, just writing this pisses me off even more. You talk about having all these assets:

          - Thousand of articles
          - Hundreds of products
          - Email lists

          And throw them all away.

          Don't claim you can't sell MMO if you are not making money. From what I can tell most of your IM products are not MMO at all.

          For example, here is one of your dead WSOs:

          Do I need to repeat what this asset has (more assets!):

          - Content
          - Graphics
          - Squeeze Pages
          - Video
          - Keyword research
          - Product research

          Anyone can sell that without claiming it will make a certain amount of money each money.

          WHY AREN'T YOU IN THAT NICHE USING YOUR OWN FRIGGIN' PRODUCT?

          You have dozens of them.

          I know this post is harsh. Intentionally so. You need a kick in the butt.

          Instead of just throwing all those years and thousands of hours into the fire, burning all your assets, have a fire sale. Bundle up a few thousand articles and a hundred IM products, plus already done emails proven to generate sales. As a copywriting wiz that should not be difficult to sell.

          If it is, find someone else to sell and accept royalty payments.

          Good gosh, if there is one thing I can't stand is woe is me, I'm sitting on a mountain of assets, and I'm broke because I'm not using any of them and only making $300 in half a year.

          I don't even know what your job was that somehow you couldn't find another one in three years - during the boom years of the economy. All I read was some excuse. What I didn't read was the skills and information acquired from that work. In other words, more assets not put to use and apparently burned.

          Steven, I don't think you've learned anything at all. What I read was you burning your assets twice and are starting over once again.

          Apparently, this other niche you are now exploring, at about $50 per month, still involves the Internet. You are still trying to make money online, but it is just not the IM niche. Join the club of everyone else in the world with a website. Use everything you have already learned, and what is in your thousands of articles, MMO products, and emails.

          IMHO, your biggest mistake is not mentioned in your post at all. It is failing to identify your assets and make use of them. Actually use your own stuff and then if something works to spin-it off for extra cash as an IM product.

          Maybe take some of those hundreds of products, update them with lessons learned, re-submit them as a product here and other places, and for goodness sake use a service like W+ or JVZoo where affiliates can send you traffic.

          Heck, if, as you say your money came from lists you could give affiliates 100% commissions, essentially substituting affiliates for EzineArticles as a free traffic source, and then using your existing email sequences to drive subsequent sales.

          .
          A lot to respond to and I really can't respond to it all. So let me say this about just a few ot your points. First of all, great response. Some amazing ideas. All doable. No argument from me there.

          To understand why I want no part of any of it, read my replies to everybody else. I am just plain burnt out on the MMO niche and don't want any part of it anymore.

          Now, as far as the Panda thing, when I created that product in 2011, I wasn't yet hit by Panda. I thought I was immune. But by 2013, I was almost out of business. It took me a while to feel it because of my huge web presence, but it finally hit.

          As to the niche packages, they were also made during a time when article marketing worked, which is how I taught people to promote these niches. Because that no longer works, I would have no idea of how to go about promoting these products. I guess I would have to use PPC and I just don't have the money to do that. Plus, if it's a question of promoting one of my niche packs or my music, I choose my music. It's what I love. So why would I do anything else?

          As for the products I have, yes, I could sell all of it to somebody. Sell my whole business for that matter. I tried. Nobody wants all my out of date products. Nothing I own anymore really works like it used to. Everything except for maybe my copywriting ebook would have to be completely rewritten and all my article marketing books would have to be totally scrapped.

          If I asked somebody to make me an offer for all my hundreds of products, I'd be luck to get $500 for everything. While that would certainly help (every dime helps now) it's not going to solve my long term financial problem. To do that, I have to concentrate on my current business model which I am working very hard at. I've already sunk $10,000 into it, so why would I abandon it? It makes no sense. Besides, if I did, my wife would leave me, period. That would be the last straw.

          I know what I'm doing now Brian. Give me at least that much credit that I've learned something in the last 11 years. In fact, I would right now map out my entire strategy for my business but I'd be afraid that somebody would steal it and beat me to it. So I am keeping it under wraps, for the most part.

          Trust me, at this time next year I will be making the $1,000 a month that I need to get me over the hump and maybe more. I am being cautiously optimistic here because I don't want to end up eating too much crow if I'm wrong.

          Either way, I can't go back to the IM MMO niche. I don't feel comfortable in it and I won't lie to people and come off as a successful marketer when I'm not.

          And the ironic thing is, if my music business took off and made me a crap ton of money, I STILL wouldn't go back to selling MMO products or coaching or any of that.

          Why?

          Because I no longer have the desire to do it. Is it that hard to understand? For some reason everybody is bell bent on getting me back to doing something that I grew to hate. It just boggles my mind.

          I am happy with what I am doing for the first time in years.

          Can't you just be happy for me because of it?
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9256093].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author briankoz
    The lists only went so far and eventually only a few people continued to be responsive to new offers. It got to a point where it just didn't pay to spend a week to create a new product to make $300. So I killed the list and closed up everything and started over.
    My first thought on seeing the above response from you was "So why not mail some affiliate offers instead of making a new product each week?" If you get even 50 to 100 clicks a mailing from an old list, there's still some good money in that.

    You have to drop the mindset of you can only mail your own products, because in reality, most of those people are on many, many lists and they'll buy certain products whether you promote them or not. So you might as well maybe promote a handful of products that you found useful and see what happens.

    - Brian
    Signature
    WebFire.com -- Over 25 Tools to Get Free Traffic, Rankings, Leads, and Exposure!
    MobileAutoresponder.com -- Build a Mobile List and Send Unlimited Text Messages!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9252567].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by briankoz View Post

      My first thought on seeing the above response from you was "So why not mail some affiliate offers instead of making a new product each week?" If you get even 50 to 100 clicks a mailing from an old list, there's still some good money in that.

      You have to drop the mindset of you can only mail your own products, because in reality, most of those people are on many, many lists and they'll buy certain products whether you promote them or not. So you might as well maybe promote a handful of products that you found useful and see what happens.

      - Brian
      Yeah Brian, I could have done that. But honestly, I didn't like promoting affiliate products in the MMO niche because I just didn't believe in what I was seeing, especially at Clickbank with all the hype and BS. It was rare that I found a product that I truly believed in. One product I did like very much and did promote it. Even got a recurring commission from it for years until I guess the buyer either finally canceled or the product was removed. It was a site creator product that was really very good. But those were few and far between in my opinion.

      Bottom line was this. I just didn't see a future for me in selling MMO products anymore so I called it quits. I think I made the right decision. I have a definite plan right now in a niche that doesn't involve me having to make outlandish promises to people. Want to exercise and lose weight but are bored doing it? Dancing to my music will make it fun. Simple, honest and I think easy to sell.

      That in addition to my royalty free biz, where I also don't have to make outlandish claims, should make me a nice "honest" income.

      And please don't get me wrong. I am not knocking Internet marketers who sell products on how to make money. I myself learned a lot of what I did from just such products. But there is too much crap out there and the niche has a bad reputation. You yourself have to admit that. We are looked down upon by a lot of people because of all the con artists. So I'm done with the niche.

      I should have done it a long time ago.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9253396].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author raresmp
    Thank you Steven for this amazing read. I mean really THANK YOU.

    As I am just starting my career into internet marketing I really appreciate posts and even reports where people like you share their honest story and their mistakes.

    I do believe such articles should be a must-read for everyone who is starting his/her career in IM because it will save a lot of time and money. I know it worked for me this way.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9253463].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JtxTop
    Extremely well said, very inspiring, you write genuinely and sincerely, one of the best posts I have read
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9253547].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Brendon Zahrndt
    "I'd love to now tell you how to build a successful business but I am in no position to do such a thing and have no business trying to tell people how to succeed when I'm a dismal failure myself."

    This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

    That's a tough love statement that is meant to encourage you to put some sort of micro coaching program together ASAP and start selling the damn thing - because your experiences - good, bad, or ugly, trump 99% of the individuals who peruse this forum looking for someone to give it to them straight.

    I remember purchasing a product of yours years ago and experiencing some nice results with it.

    Who gives a shxt (your serious financial situation aside) if your sites tanked?

    That makes you unqualified to teach making a living online?

    Come on, man.

    I actually kind of appreciated your slightly abrasive style (I sold real estate in South East Florida for years - to those brash New York/New Jersey folks) and your 'style' is likely less abrasive than you are giving yourself credit for.

    Now - not taking friends advice out of ego, well, that's on you.

    Lesson learned, yesterday's gone.

    Start the Internet Marketing Asset Protection Coaching Program, or whatever the hell you'll call it, and I bet you bounce back big.

    Seriously.

    Success is subjective dude.

    There are legions of people on this forum secretly begging for your expertise.

    Get reacquainted and make it work brother.

    You could have even turned this post into a WSO and sold it. No hype.

    Good to see you back sniffing around both here and on social media.

    Coaching.

    Get on it.

    Brendon
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9254027].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    Steven... we've both been around here a long time... you're a blunt
    speaker... I'm a blunt speaker... so let's get down to it!

    You mentioned in one of your points that attitude was a problem
    at one time. It still is. Your recent posts drip of negativity.

    Time to pull your head out of your nether regions and stop beating yourself to death.

    You aren't even in the same neighborhood with dismal failure... you can't
    even see it from where you are. You have been a great success. You paid
    off your mortgage... that's a measure of financial security that most will
    never enjoy. You paid off your credit cards and are debt free... that's gotta
    put you in a pretty damn rare club these days. Most of all... you were able to
    send your Daughter to college to get a good education. HELLOOOO????

    No, Steven... you are not a dismal failure... you are a resounding SUCCESS!!!!

    There are many ways to become successful in the marketing world. You were
    smart enough to learn one way. Surely, you're smart enough to learn another.

    The first step is to have a little faith... in yourself... in your abilities.

    Stop poisoning your mind with all that negative crap and move forward!

    We all know you can do it... who are you to doubt all of us?
    Signature
    If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9254180].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Buckley
    I learned, as a Marine, that the toughest fighters can still be knocked down. What makes them the toughest is that they just won't stay down
    Signature

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something." -Plato

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9254237].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    I've never understood the logic when someone tells me they are "done" with the MMO niche because of the scam artists or the shady people (which every industry has).

    Isn't that even more reason to participate and make sure you're one of the good guys providing value to your customer base?

    Less than 1% of my income comes from the MMO market, but I make sure that I put out quality and take care of my customers. Our industry has a bad name because of a few bad apples and I bellieve it's our duty to combat that and one way of doing it is by being one of the good guys, regardless of the niche you're in.

    RoD
    Signature
    "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
    - Jim Rohn
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9254245].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author niloydaemons
    wow thanks buddy learned a lot from your post.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9257501].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author trump7
    Great! Very interesting story you have. I am new here and I always search your post to get some good advice from you on internet market. You are legend and very respectable for me to learn some thing from you.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9257762].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Garcysher
    great post Steven, attitude seems to play a huge part in success and we all have the power to change that.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9260821].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author LimitlessTraffic
    Love these threads. Warrior Forum should have a section on it's own where people can share their experience and story. You will definitely succeed mate! Definitely!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9260885].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mrmugabe
    wise words, one of the best threads on here.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9261033].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author barbling
    Superb advice and given your past successes, future success is only a matter of time.

    This part:

    "4) Don't be afraid to spend money on your business. Had I invested some of my profits into improving my business maybe I could have saved it. Instead, I was a cheap SOB who wouldn't spend money on anything. Had I done something simple like learn Adwords and spend some money on promotion, I could have probably kept my business going especially if I..."

    So so so so SO true. So many people pinch pennies when spending the dollar would return 'way huger rewards. That's one of the most powerful things a newbie can internalize.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9263914].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Katie Rich
    Steven, if you have a copywriting ebook then consider selling it. Many of us could use some good information from someone who really knows what he is talking about.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9264144].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Katie Rich View Post

      Steven, if you have a copywriting ebook then consider selling it. Many of us could use some good information from someone who really knows what he is talking about.
      I tried selling it. I sold maybe 20 copies. Copywriting books don't sell well because they're not sexy. They don't promise overnight success and they require you to learn a skill.

      PM me your email address and I'll send you a copy on me.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9267242].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Devilfish168
        hmm I was thinking of selling my own products but don't know what

        so you amuse as affiliates can't make it big?

        because I seem some bros doing IM full time just affiliate others products...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9267648].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author richgerald
    There's no such thing as failure only feedback.

    To succeed fail faster.

    I use those two sayings all the time!
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9264367].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ecoverartist
    I remember suggesting that you have some nice, professional-looking e-covers developed for your digital products. You insisted that they were fine the way they were. I'll say this honestly -- they were not something I'd brand with my own name if I were putting it out there!

    So I'm glad you finally/hopefully came around and understood that other people's strengths can accentuate your own. I can only imagine how much better your products would've sold if they'd looked more professional. People really do judge a book (even an ebook) by its cover.

    I had wondered what happened to you after EZA tanked. I'd had hoped you'd cashed out and were living on a tropical island somewhere

    I'm curious, what made you decide to completely shift gears and get into royalty free music? Are you a composer/musician yourself?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9267903].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Steven,

    A couple of thoughts (tough love):

    1. Your attitude is still awful. Read through most of your posts and you will see that there are lots of negative exaggerations, pity poor me statements, and the total tone of about 95% of everything you are writing is negative. Not trying to knock you down but to tell you that you have a long way to go. Yes things look down now but don't fool yourself into thinking that you are thinking straight/positively.

    A couple examples follow even though there are many. I'll highlight the negative connotations:

    I tried selling it. I sold maybe 20 copies. Copywriting books don't sell well because they're not sexy. They don't promise overnight success and they require you to learn a skill.

    PM me your email address and I'll send you a copy on me.
    Derek, I earn about $10 a month off of Adsense from my blogs. As far as splitting them between different domains, again, I don't have the money to throw into a business model that has disintegrated on me. A domain for me, right now, might as well be a Lexus. That's how broke I am. If I'm investing in my music business, okay. But I'm not pouring money into something that's dead. It makes no sense.
    2. You don't have to make outlandish promises to succeed. In fact you really can't make ANY promises unless you can prove that people will go and follow what you are teaching.

    3. I think it's ironic - the irony of ironies - that what you need to do is to make money online. You need the help of people that are doing it but you felt like a fraud/crook when you were helping others. Why come here to get help if in your mind the whole market here are crooks? If you were a fraud/crook and you are tired of the games why come here and want help from those still playing the "games"? There is a big logical disconnect here that you aren't seeing.

    Good luck.

    Mark
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9268148].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Katie Rich
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Steven,

      A couple of thoughts (tough love):

      1. Your attitude is still awful. Read through most of your posts and you will see that there are lots of negative exaggerations, pity poor me statements, and the total tone of about 95% of everything you are writing is negative. Not trying to knock you down but to tell you that you have a long way to go. Yes things look down now but don't fool yourself into thinking that you are thinking straight/positively.
      Steven's whole post shows signs of depression. False positivity, 'poor me' statements, they are all classic signs. Steven you may deny this, you may be angry at the suggestion. So was I four years ago when my career failed and I was left high and dry. I scoffed at anyone who suggested I was depressed, wouldn't accept it, there was nothing WRONG with me, but in the end only treatment for depressive illness helped me see how bad I really was.

      You have lost your entire income, why would you NOT be depressed about it?

      When there is no light left at the end of the tunnel, what do you look for? When all those gorgeous ducks swimming in a row are shot dead one by one, what do you do?

      Fear of further failure stops any forward movement and the 'get a grip!' comments will do nothing to help. I am around 4 years from losing my home but even that is not enough to give me the encouragement I need to actively DO something to make a change. I have no confidence left now. The fear is deep seated and I convince myself I will never achieve anything anyway, so why bother?

      Some people have offered to help Steven. Those people now need to make contact with him and push him, encourage him, so that he CAN take the steps necessary to look at life more positively. Bollockings will make no impression whatsoever.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9271024].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ohman1988
    Never give up man, you have the right mind set. Focus on what you know, and that's how to make money by marketing. Getting started back up after a hit like that is hard, but not impossible, you started everything from the ground at one point right? You have it, just take your time, keep organized and for sure keep your head up you're very intelligent!
    Signature

    These Three Brain Hacks Saved My Business! Get Them For Free Today.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9268327].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ladylavender
    Hello Mr. Steven Wagenheim,

    Your story was quite an inspiration to me. I will really try to learn from your mistakes. I truly commend you for brushing off your scars and getting back up to do it again. Thanks again for sharing your story.....Ladylavender
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9268598].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Vid Yo
    The most inspiring thing about Steven's post is the fact that he has almost 17k posts and over 7k thanks, which can be quite intimidating to newcomers. He's been around for some time and has contributed A LOT and still found it within himself to speak candidly about his failures.

    ...COURAGE
    Signature
    Need Web Design Leads?
    These Aren't Your Average Kind. Click Here Now!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9268623].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author cringwall
    I remember buying one of your WSO's just because the copy was so compelling. My IM business, while no where near yours, crashed and burned last year. I did not worry too much because I had been relying on a bunch of affiliate articles that were paying incredibly well- and now those recently got smacked - so now my online income has evaporated, too. I'm in the process of dusting off and seeing what I can do. Best regards, fellow Warrior!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9268657].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author DeePower
    Steven:

    How can I help your new business? Can I tweet about it, put a link on my facebook page, socially bookmark it, blog about it? Tell me and I'll do it. Write the tweet and a brief paragraph about your music site with the keywords you want and consider it done.

    Post it here and maybe other people will help too.

    Dee
    Signature
    FREE Pump Up Your Profits With PLR
    Are You a Writer? Then you need this FREE guide Convert Your Words to Ca$H Make Money Writing Online
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9268957].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ErinWalsh
    There's so much I could say in response to this post. Yes, you have to be nice to people and don't count on one source of traffic. It's good that you learned you also need content on your own sites/blogs as well as others. All the tips you have provided can help everyone make it.
    Signature

    Boost Software teamed up with Neverblue. They helped produce this new affiliate video.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9269022].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author youvana
    Steven, I know you from the past and how successful you were, please stop putting yourself down and saying how much of a loser you have been. The market is dynamic as you know and Google is ruthless, we just need to move with the times. So what, you made mistakes? We all do. Doing well online is not rocket science, you are a clever chap and your comeback will be something many of us will celebrate. Please stop putting yourself down, I know what you mean about how easy it is to become arrogant and it's also easy to be negative and even easier to come accross looking sad. Just be positive mate this year is yours, change the world and shine like the star you are
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9269251].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author cyberzolo
    IT IS POSSIBLE! Really needed to hear that sometimes I feel like I cannot make substantial amounts of money.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9269396].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author nmchant
    Beautifully written, Steve! Kudos. Me thinks your future is bright indeed... a little mindset magic and then lookout. Btw, failing forward is inherently human.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9270462].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Pak Voter
    This is very helpful and nice. Thanks for sharing such nice piece of advise to all of us.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9270582].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author twranks
    Great info sir, thanks and all the best to you
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9270679].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sudo rank
    The main thing is you have learned a lesson and can move onto the next project!

    Even if you fail moneywise, aslong as you've learned something your time wasn't wasted at all!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9270817].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      @Mark

      Thank you for the tough love. I have taken it in the spirit in which is was intended. I would like to point out a couple of things however.

      If you take a look at the items you quoted, you will note that they are in regard to my old business. Maybe I haven't made this clear and if so, my bad. I have no interest in going back to selling MMO products. I want nothing to do with that niche ever again. So if that makes me have a bad attitude, so be it.

      My new business model has me thinking nothing but positive thoughts. I have a complete game plan all setup for how I intend to make money with my new business model. It's a 4 pronged attack so that I am not putting all my eggs into one basket. One of the plans, I will have my first affiliate program ever. I will be contacting leaders in the industry for JVs. I will be building a reputation so that eventually I will get custom work.

      If the site downloads doesn't work out, no big deal. It got me started at least. I now have direction and am constantly moving in that direction each day. I work almost non stop but doing things that are productive long term that doesn't involve writing articles for directories. I've learned from my mistakes. I now have a pinpoint focus on my business.

      If that is a bad attitude then we should all have a bad attitude. Therefor, I do not agree with your assessment of my attitude. And you know what, that's all that matters. If I believe that I have a positive mindset then I do. It is after all my mind.

      Who knows it better?

      Thank you for wishing me luck. I don't think I'll need it though as my plan, my focus and my determination will bring me the success that I desire.

      Next year at this same time, I will return here and prove all the naysayers wrong when I'm back on top.

      Oh, and one more thing. I come here for help because there are some people here who I actually do look up to and trust. I never said the whole industry was corrupt. Just enough of it that I lost my taste for being in it.

      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Steven,

      A couple of thoughts (tough love):

      1. Your attitude is still awful. Read through most of your posts and you will see that there are lots of negative exaggerations, pity poor me statements, and the total tone of about 95% of everything you are writing is negative. Not trying to knock you down but to tell you that you have a long way to go. Yes things look down now but don't fool yourself into thinking that you are thinking straight/positively.

      A couple examples follow even though there are many. I'll highlight the negative connotations:





      2. You don't have to make outlandish promises to succeed. In fact you really can't make ANY promises unless you can prove that people will go and follow what you are teaching.

      3. I think it's ironic - the irony of ironies - that what you need to do is to make money online. You need the help of people that are doing it but you felt like a fraud/crook when you were helping others. Why come here to get help if in your mind the whole market here are crooks? If you were a fraud/crook and you are tired of the games why come here and want help from those still playing the "games"? There is a big logical disconnect here that you aren't seeing.

      Good luck.

      Mark
      @Dee

      Bless you. Let me give this some thought and then I will PM you. I don't know if I still have your email address from the last time we corresponded with each other. You've always had my back and I appreciate it.

      Originally Posted by DeePower View Post

      Steven:

      How can I help your new business? Can I tweet about it, put a link on my facebook page, socially bookmark it, blog about it? Tell me and I'll do it. Write the tweet and a brief paragraph about your music site with the keywords you want and consider it done.

      Post it here and maybe other people will help too.

      Dee
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9271011].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author sudo rank
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        If you take a look at the items you quoted, you will note that they are in regard to my old business. Maybe I haven't made this clear and if so, my bad. I have no interest in going back to selling MMO products. I want nothing to do with that niche ever again. So if that makes me have a bad attitude, so be it.
        I don't want to be "this guy" but ye, you have a bad attitude

        We've all been there, you should have seen me just after Panda hit! Depressed for a solid 6 months afterwards I even went to see my doctor!

        Sometimes you gotta take it on the chin and learn from bad experiences.

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        My new business model has me thinking nothing but positive thoughts. I have a complete game plan all setup for how I intend to make money with my new business model. It's a 4 pronged attack so that I am not putting all my eggs into one basket. One of the plans, I will have my first affiliate program ever. I will be contacting leaders in the industry for JVs. I will be building a reputation so that eventually I will get custom work.
        Atleast you're positive about your new venture, good stuff

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Oh, and one more thing. I come here for help because there are some people here who I actually do look up to and trust. I never said the whole industry was corrupt. Just enough of it that I lost my taste for being in it.
        Ye I can totally understand, important thing is to look past all the rubbish types with nothing important to say and chat with those who have good experience.

        I started doing that about a year ago and haven't looked back. I think I've learned more about SEO / Marketing this past year than the preceeding 3!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9271029].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author alvinhy
    Thanks for such a great insightful post. I think most people don't know is that making money online can be fast but if you go too fast, you fail fast.

    Its better to build a strong foundation first and build your way up.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9271076].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author gcbmark20
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


    4) Don't be afraid to spend money on your business. Had I invested some of my profits into improving my business maybe I could have saved it. Instead, I was a cheap SOB who wouldn't spend money on anything. Had I done something simple like learn Adwords and spend some money on promotion, I could have probably kept my business going especially if I...

    Couldn't agree more with this statement.

    Investing into your business is just that......AN INVESTMENT!

    Use your results and numbers as a guide that will steer your business
    towards success.

    If something doesn't work you can always tweak, test again and optimize
    that strategy until you find a winning formula.

    And of course if you invest in a good coach most of these obstacles will
    be removed as your coach will be telling you what to do and not what to
    do in terms of investments etc in your business.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9271077].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author misshang
    Hi, Steve, it's good to read such an honest post from someone who has been in this business for so long.
    I totally understand you don't want to be in this MMO business again.
    Just my 2 cents, now that you love to do music, why don't you come up with tracks with PLR rights for markters to use in their videos or podcast?
    Signature

    Join or use my translation group! All languages!
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/134837913843675/

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9453279].message }}

Trending Topics