Which came first? - The Product or the Sales letter? | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

dvduval

15 years ago

For me it is always the product, but I see software, so I assume that would be normal.

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diamondseeker

15 years ago

Interesting Question.

I know a guy who actually announces a new product on his blog, then asks for comments, Then produces the product according to the comments recieved. He is very successful. So I think writing the sales letter would
be the way to go, right after doing some type of survey.

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George Wright

15 years ago

HI,

LOL, Brilliant question.

Sometimes when I'm working on a sales letter for a certain product the creative juices start to flow RE: Benefits and Features and as I think about them a new product is created right before my eyes.

In-other-words, as I say it can do this or that I reexamine the product which doesn't do this or that and have to "create" a product that does.

George Wright

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Michael Mayo

15 years ago

Originally Posted by George Wright

HI,

LOL, Brilliant question.

Sometimes when I'm working on a sales letter for a certain product the creative juices start to flow RE: Benefits and Features and as I think about them a new product is created right before my eyes.

In-other-words, as I say it can do this or that I reexamine the product which doesn't do this or that and have to "create" a product that does.

George Wright

George, That's happens to me too...lol

Michael

Thanks

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R Hagel

15 years ago

I've done it both ways as well.

I like doing the initial sales letter draft first while my enthusiasm is at its highest -- I think the passion shines through to the sales letter.

But if I do the product first (which is actually more common for me), then I set it aside for a while before working on the sales letter. Otherwise, the sales letter looks more like a tired afterthought.

Cheers,
Becky

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Raydal

15 years ago

I've done this both ways but since I write mostly for other people
then I must see the product first. But writing the sales letter
first keeps you honest to what you are going to deliver.

-Ray Edwards

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jhongren

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

Hey Warriors,

I just thought I would ask you which one do you produce first, Your
product or your sales letter?

In the past I've done it both ways.

I created a product and then created the sales letter to go along with it
and I've also done it the other way by creating the Sales letter first as a
guide and then creating the product.

Which way works best for you and why?

Thanks in advance for the replies.
Have a Great Day!
Michael

Hi Michael,

How have you been?

Normally I would create a product first
because the product is meant to meet
a specific need or want and there
is a gap which I can fill.

Then I will do the sales page. =)

Then I will add bonuses to complement
the actual product so that the customer
can meet more of his need/ wants. =)

Cheers,
John

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Michael Mayo

15 years ago

Hi John,

Hope things are going well for you and yours.

Things here have been good, Thank You for asking!

Catch you on skype soon ;-)

Have a Great Day!
Michael

Originally Posted by jhongren

Hi Michael,

How have you been?

Normally I would create a product first
because the product is meant to meet
a specific need or want and there
is a gap which I can fill.

Then I will do the sales page. =)

Then I will add bonuses to complement
the actual product so that the customer
can meet more of his need/ wants. =)

Cheers,
John

Thanks
1 reply

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jhongren

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

Hi John,

Hope things are going well for you and yours.

Things here have been good, Thank You for asking!

Catch you on skype soon ;-)

Have a Great Day!
Michael

Sure...thanks alot, Michael...I love this thread.
It keeps me thinking of how I should better
my business model.

Thanks,
John

Thanks

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mikemcmillan

15 years ago

Sales letter first. Then reverse engineer your product from the letter. Doing this gives a blueprint for what you product must contain. A great sales letter can sell a bad product, but a bad sales letter won't sell much of a product no matter how good it is.

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Michael Mayo

15 years ago

Hi John,
Hi Mike,

You both bring up the points that caused me to create this very thread!

OK, Now 3 Warriors need Help!...lol

Anyone have test results that state one way is better than the other?

Hey, I have to ask, OK?

Have a Great Day!
Michael

Originally Posted by jhongren

Hi Michael,

How have you been?

Normally I would create a product first
because the product is meant to meet
a specific need or want and there
is a gap which I can fill.

Then I will do the sales page. =)

Then I will add bonuses to complement
the actual product so that the customer
can meet more of his need/ wants. =)

Cheers,
John

Originally Posted by mikemcmillan

Sales letter first. Then reverse engineer your product from the letter. Doing this gives a blueprint for what you product must contain. A great sales letter can sell a bad product, but a bad sales letter won't sell much of a product no matter how good it is.

Thanks

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mmurtha

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

Hey Warriors,

I just thought I would ask you which one do you produce first, Your
product or your sales letter?

Michael

Michael,

And here I thought I was coming into a thread much like "which one came first, the chicken or the egg?" Lol now I won't be able to razz you.

Seriously, I am not a copywriter by no means, but I prefer to create the product first. This way the bullet points and benefits are already drilled into my head, so all I have to do is type them out, and fill in the rest.

As far as this question goes ...

Anyone have test results that state one way is better than the other?

I think the results would be hard to determine because each person is different, and something like this would be determined on personal preference wouldn't it?

Just a thought ...

Mary

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kempos

15 years ago

For me it would be a product, however Mike McMillan has a point

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mmurtha

15 years ago

Originally Posted by kempos

For me it would be a product, however Mike McMillan has a point

Would you care to elaborate as to why you would do it that way?

Just curious ...

Btw, you may want to extend your posts beings how you just joined and posted very few comments. Doing so may keep your posts from getting deleted so quickly.

Thanks
1 reply

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kempos

15 years ago

Originally Posted by mmurtha

Would you care to elaborate as to why you would do it that way?

Just curious ...

Btw, you may want to extend your posts beings how you just joined and posted very few comments. Doing so may keep your posts from getting deleted so quickly.

Yes, sure.

I think I would need a product to be able to write a sales letter. This is pretty much the reason I would start with a product. It is easier for me this way.

I see some interesting post here, like working backwards - yes, it sounds like a grand idea, but I do not think it would work for me. It does not mean however that it is wrong.

thanks,

kempos

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INFOSEEKER-2009

15 years ago

I would say that it really depends on the market that is being Targeted ...

Technical products develop easier without the product ...

Personal products develop easier with a product ...

From a copy writer's point of view ! ! !

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Michael Mayo

15 years ago

Originally Posted by mmurtha

Michael,

And here I thought I was coming into a thread much like "which one came first, the chicken or the egg?" Lol now I won't be able to razz you.

Guilty as Charged,

Razz Away!

Seriously, I am not a copywriter by no means, but I prefer to create the product first. This way the bullet points and benefits are already drilled into my head, so all I have to do is type them out, and fill in the rest.

Good Points Thanks!

As far as this question goes ...

I think the results would be hard to determine because each person is different, and something like this would be determined on personal preference wouldn't it?

Just a thought ...

Mary

Hi Mary,

Don't look into the light!

Keep it simple and allow it to complex on it's own.

Life is tough enough don't you think?
Have a Great Day!
Michael

Originally Posted by kempos

For me it would be a product, however Mike McMillan has a point

Hi Kempos,
Yes, He had a good point, I hope others will add fuel to the fire so that we can see the whole picture.

Have a Great Day!
Michael

Originally Posted by INFOSEEKER-2009

I would say that it really depends on the market that is being Targeted ...

Technical products develop easier without the product ...

Personal products develop easier with a product ...

From a copy writer's point of view ! ! !

Originally Posted by Traffic-Bug

It depends on the type of product you are promoting. As infoseeker-2009 has put it in words.

Hi INFOSEEKER,
Very True!

Each situation could require a different plan of attack.

Have a Great Day!
Michael
PS, Traffic-Bug, Thanks for your input!

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Kevin Riley

15 years ago

Basically product, but I tend to make notes for my sales page as I'm developing the product. As I see the benefits it will offer, I note the ideas down for the letter.

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Kevin Riley, long-time Warrior living in Osaka, Japan

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Michael Mayo

15 years ago

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the reply!

I tend to do the same thing but then some times weird thinks happen such
as waking up in the middle of the night only to see Hamsters going
through my Secret Files?

You wouldn't know anything about that would you?

I Have two
detained here now but they won't talk. I May have to Google "Water
Boarding" and give that a try! :rolleyes:

Still not sure if it was a Bad Dream or Something I Ate the night before?

Anyway, Gotta go now!
Talk with you later,

Have a Great Morning/Day!
Michael

Thanks
1 reply

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Kevin Riley

15 years ago

Hah! My agents are tougher than that. You'll waterboard them and they'll just thank you for the dip. We don't send any sissy hamsters out into the field.

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the reply!

I tend to do the same thing but then some times weird thinks happen such
as waking up in the middle of the night only to see Hamsters going
through my Secret Files?

You wouldn't know anything about that would you?

I Have two
detained here now but they won't talk. I May have to Google "Water
Boarding" and give that a try! :rolleyes:

Still not sure if it was a Bad Dream or Something I Ate the night before?

Anyway, Gotta go now!
Talk with you later,

Have a Great Morning/Day!
Michael

Thanks

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Kevin Riley, long-time Warrior living in Osaka, Japan

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Steve L

15 years ago

i made my current product first, sales letter second.

isn't the other way around called "dry testing"? i plan on trying this out in the future

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dageniusmarketer

15 years ago

For me personally, its always the product. I then take my product apart piece by piece to formulate all the benefits and features for the salesletter. Thats my usual process, cant see me deviating too much from that technique going forward.

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David_Thompson 15 years ago

I would say product first then salesletter, but as I'm working on the product
itself I make notes in a dummy salesletter template so I can go back later
and write the whole thing...

But I'm no copywriter so it is always just a draft of what I would want...

Product developers ain't always the best people to write their own copy
so hiring out is a must for most of us...

--David
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Dan Ambrose

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

Hey Warriors,

I just thought I would ask you which one do you produce first, Your
product or your sales letter?

In the past I've done it both ways.

I created a product and then created the sales letter to go along with it
and I've also done it the other way by creating the Sales letter first as a
guide and then creating the product.

Which way works best for you and why?

Thanks in advance for the replies.
Have a Great Day!
Michael

For me, it's DEFINATELY the product.

I generally outsource a lot of my sales letters (to Loren Woirhaye - super copywriter) and therefore need to show the product to him so he knows what to sell in the letter.

If it was the other way around then the convo would go like this:

Me: Hi Loren, can you put a sales copy together for me?
Loren: sure thing bud, what ya sellin?
Me: Don't know yet.
Loren: erm...

You see my point.

Daniel

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Revolves

15 years ago

I read this somewhere long back (I mean before 2005), that one of the tricks is writing your sales letter first. See how electrifying your sales letter is, and then write your ebook or create your product in such a way that ALL points you promised in your letter are delivered. Well, but I'm still on the verge of creating my first product. So lets see how it goes!

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artwebster

15 years ago

Fascinating!

Obviously only digital products are being spoken of - a miniscule part of the market place trying to set the rules for the rest.

I do know one company that creates extruded plastic gizmos and every so often they will survey their clients and ask them what they would like to see added to the product range. If they get a high enough repsonse for a particular gizmo they will set the tool makers to work, set up an advertising campaign and get the reps out on the road with a 'write up' of the new gizmo to take advance orders. They sometimes have sold the first production run before the machines are set up to produce it.

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Michael Mayo

15 years ago

Originally Posted by artwebster

Fascinating!

Obviously only digital products are being spoken of - a miniscule part of the market place trying to set the rules for the rest.

Hi Art,
No one is trying to set any rules here, we're just discussing how we do a particular thing.

I do know one company that creates extruded plastic gizmos and every so often they will survey their clients and ask them what they would like to see added to the product range. If they get a high enough repsonse for a particular gizmo they will set the tool makers to work, set up an advertising campaign and get the reps out on the road with a 'write up' of the new gizmo to take advance orders. They sometimes have sold the first production run before the machines are set up to produce it.

Been there and Done that my self as the Senior Engineer for an Automotive Company.

Have a Great Day!
Michael

Thanks

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artwebster

15 years ago

Hi Art,
No one is trying to set any rules here, we're just discussing how we do a particular thing.

Point taken - I stand corrected.

Thanks

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Build it, make money, then build some more
Some old school smarts would help - and here's to Rob Toth for his help. Bloody good stuff, even the freebies!

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ktpasco

15 years ago

Here's what works for me:

I go find a niche that I like and want to promote. Create a product and then create the sales letter and promotional tools. It's that easy.

If you create the sales letter first you're just hoping it sells which isn't smart at all.

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Valeriu Popescu

15 years ago

I don't think there is a general rule for this, so I'll share here my latest experience for my JV book.

First I make a draft that include the main chapter of my book. Than include the parts of the chapters and translate all into a "sales letter".

Second, I start writing my book.

After it was finished, I came back to the sales letter and improve it. Since I don't like hype, I'we stay away from this. I include into the letter EXACTLY what my book is talking about. NO hype, NO false promises...

Finally, I start testing different elements of my sales letter using Adwords before I release it to the public. When I thought I had a winner, I launch it.

Hope this help!

Valeriu

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Tyrus Antas

15 years ago

Creating a salesletter for a potential product that you still haven't developed is a good way to test the market. Depending on the results you get, make a decision to either develop the product or scrap the idea.

Tyrus

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David_Thompson

15 years ago

Now I'm seeing a few interesting points here some people think it's better to start
with the salesletter first then test the market, to me that's just setting yourself
up for a major letdown...and way too much work or I'm missing something here...

--David

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INFOSEEKER-2009

15 years ago

David,

Revise ... Revise ... Revise ... Rule of Thumb in Marketing ... ! ! !

I think ... lol ...

Originally Posted by David_Thompson

Now I'm seeing a few interesting points here some people think it's better to start
with the salesletter first then test the market, to me that's just setting yourself
up for a major letdown...and way too much work or I'm missing something here...

--David

Thanks

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Stefan Vee

15 years ago

Excellent question!

Here's what I do (and it works perfectly)

It starts with an idea...
I then create an excellent product cover, a small pitch letter (great title + launch date) and a subscribe box (product will be launched by invitation only on "this" date)

This gives me a time-frame that forces me to finish the product by that time.

If the amount of subscribers doesn't meet my expectations, I blow the project off. But usually, the amount of subscribers motivates me enough to create a great info-product.

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2 replies

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kempos

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Stefan Vee

Excellent question!

Here's what I do (and it works perfectly)

It starts with an idea...
I then create an excellent product cover, a small pitch letter (great title + launch date) and a subscribe box (product will be launched by invitation only on "this" date)

This gives me a time-frame that forces me to finish the product by that time.

If the amount of subscribers doesn't meet my expectations, I blow the project off. But usually, the amount of subscribers motivates me enough to create a great info-product.

Really great idea. Never thought about it to be honest.
Nice one and very clever.

Thanks

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INFOSEEKER-2009

15 years ago

I Like your Time-Enforcement Idea ...

Originally Posted by Stefan Vee

Excellent question!

Here's what I do (and it works perfectly)

It starts with an idea...
I then create an excellent product cover, a small pitch letter (great title + launch date) and a subscribe box (product will be launched by invitation only on "this" date)

This gives me a time-frame that forces me to finish the product by that time.

If the amount of subscribers doesn't meet my expectations, I blow the project off. But usually, the amount of subscribers motivates me enough to create a great info-product.

Thanks

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Kelly Verge

15 years ago

I've always done product first, but usually as I write the sales letter I end up discovering other areas that can and should be added to the product to fill in benefits. This often makes me feel like I've missed something in the product during the initial creation step.

It's good to see that some create the sales page first. It kind of validates my post-sales-page additions. I'll have to try doing the sales page first to see if it helps my flow.

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Ram 15 years ago

Frequently the sales letter in a rough form.

We get an idea. Then we start mapping out the sales letter - all the bullet points we can think of. All the promises. Then we make the product do what we want it to.
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blogginvixen

15 years ago

For me, it's the product that comes first. Once I have a specific idea in mind and write it out (9 times out of 10 it's an eBook), then I can craft the sales letter. That way, I can truly speak on the benefits of the book and what it has to offer readers.

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elle56

15 years ago

For me, the product comes first before the sales page. It allows me to formulate my pitch better.

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Kyle Tully

15 years ago

I usually outline my product as a mindmap first. Then write my salesletter based on that. Finally create the product and deliver everything I promised in the salesletter.

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rohar

15 years ago

When I started reading this thread, I was fairly sure that it was a simple process of
1 )finding out what the product needed to contain
2) out lining the benefits that had to be delivered - and hence the seed of the sales letter - the pitch to persuade folks that it was worth doing
3) create the product ensuring that the sought for benefits were present
4 ) modify / polish the sales letter to encompass new found benefits that came from the techniques used to create product.
OK I admit that steps 3 and 4 sometimes got repeated a few times...

I come from a software background and we used a similar process to get resources for creating products. Somehow I just expected to use the same process for info products.

Now I'm not so sure. There seems to be a lot more flexibility about this than I had thought and reading between the lines it seems to be a combination of personal preferences and past experience.

At the very least it make me think - thanks I think <grin>

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1 reply

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Michael Mayo 15 years ago

Hey Warriors,

There have been some interesting replies to my question, Thanks!

I believe it is a matter of choice to which way works best.
Some times I find when I create the Sales page first it helps to keep me
focused on creating the product to specs. It also reminds me that I need
to get the product to at least what the sales letter states there by stopping
me from constantly improving on the product while it's under production.

Some thing I learned a long time ago is that when you are creating a product
It's very easy to keep adding things to make it better and better.

The problem is the fact that you never seem to finish it and begin to earn
any profits if you keep making it better. I find it's better to get the project
to the point where your original plan stated then after the launch, send
out updates.

This does a couple of good things for you. One it allows you to contact
the purchaser again and you are giving them something with out asking for
anything in return, second it builds relations with the customer increasing
the open rate of your future emails.

Thanks for all the replies!

Have a Great Day!
Michael
- Thanks
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Which came first? - The Product or the Sales letter?

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