A Question For Established Marketers Only - No Newbies Please!

43 replies
Howdy, Howdy.

First of all, I'm not trying to be mean by asking newbies not to post. I just happen to be looking for serious advice and I can't get it from them.

That being said, I'm not a rookie myself. I've made a decent amount of money online using multiple methods like article marketing, PPC, SEO, flipping websites and also have started and built 4 businesses from scratch offline since 2000.

Right now I happen to be at a crossroads. I'm still selling stuff offline, but I'm growing tired. It's definitely not something I want to do forever, though I wouldn't mind doing it part time. I enjoy the interaction with many of my customers, I just hate having to call when I'm in need of cash. I almost always do better when I can be relaxed and laugh and joke than I can if I'm stressed out - even if I'm practically giving stuff away.

I want to rebuild my online business. Actually, I've already begun. I put a deposit down for paid advertising so I can test some offers, built two niche sites with excellent content and have begun a steady stream of content syndication. I have a helper that's doing much of this for me, though I have to jump in as well next week to get things moving faster.

My problem is niche related. I'm not really a fan of what I'm writing about. I CAN do the articles because I know a lot about the topics, but it's definitely not where I want to be spending most of my time.

Honestly, my passion is marketing. I've been doing it most of my life. I started when I was 17 and with the exception of 5 years in the military and a few labor jobs, marketing and sales have been my "thing" most of my life.

The problem that I keep hearing is that the market is saturated. I think that a LOT of the IM market is saturated and I definitely don't have the capital to go head to head with people like Frank Kern, Andy Jenkins, Perry Marshall or anyone else in that crowd.

Still, I have a few decades of experience in direct sales and feel like my online successes here and there should make me more than qualified to find my own "tribe", as Seth Godin calls them, and teach very specific skills.

I've thought of writing Kindle books, reports that solve a single problem, coaching, consulting, creating a "signature course" as Paul Evans (Nicheology) refers to it where you have a 4, 8 or 12 week class that you charge a nice amount for and just run the class for a few dozen people 3-6 times per year. Jimmy D. Brown does this at $2k a pop. So does Kim Roach, last I heard.

I guess I could just use some encouragement. It seems like every time I bring it up I hear "the IM market is saturated. Look at your competition. There's so much more that you can be doing. You need to move onto something else, etc" and I HAVE moved on to other markets, but I'm not very happy about it.

Do those of you who actually have experience in business online, offline or both think that there's still room for someone like myself to make a living at teaching elements of certain niches online? The target market can be for people who are online or offline in several areas.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Joe
#established #marketers #newbies #question
  • Profile picture of the author entrepreneurjay
    There ia always room if you have a specific skill set and people are willing to pay for your knowledge then by all means do it.

    There is a newer site called Curious you may want to check out where you can put together a video series and charge customers for access to your training, or do it on your own that would be up to you obviously.

    And trust me the market is not too saturated the Internet is huge and no matter how big any marketer is you used Frank Kern as an example they can't advertise everywhere.

    This is where you come in

    Sometimes all it takes is 1 Google search, forum post, classified ad, Facebook post, etc.. to find you and if you gain there trust and genuinely help them you just gained a customer for life.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by entrepreneurjay View Post

      There ia always room if you have a specific skill set and people are willing to pay for your knowledge then by all means do it.

      There is a newer site called Curious you may want to check out where you can put together a video series and charge customers for access to your training, or do it on your own that would be up to you obviously.

      And trust me the market is not too saturated the Internet is huge and no matter how big any marketer is you used Frank Kern as an example they can't advertise everywhere.

      This is where you come in

      Sometimes all it takes is 1 Google search, forum post, classified ad, Facebook post, etc.. to find you and if you gain there trust and genuinely help them you just gained a customer for life.

      I've never heard of "Curious" before, but I'll definitely check it out. Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Joe, I've gotta ask this question because, quite honestly, this is puzzling me.

      Don't you have any strong interests that you're really passionate about that you could get into?

      For example, I made a decent living in the "make money online" market for about 8 years and actually did just as Seth had done, built a small following. But then my main source of traffic generation dried up and I found myself literally out of business within a couple of years. My mistake was not taking some of what I earned, which was considerable, and put it into other forms of traffic generation like PPC or ad buys or whatever. I didn't do that because, quite honestly, I'm a cheap SOB. So everything crashed and burned.

      Today, starting over, I decided to finally get into my first and biggest love...music. To that end I have several projects in the works. I know that at least one of them is going to catch fire and I'll make a nice living do it. It's just a matter of time as I have to get all my ducks in a row.

      So I have to ask, with all your experience as a marketer, don't you have something like that, that you're passionate about that you can get into?

      If not (and I find that very hard to believe) to answer your question, no, the market isn't saturated. There are always avenues you can take. The key is knowing how to drive traffic to your offer once you actually have an offer. I think your idea is a good one. My traffic generation skills are non existent these days as I have no idea what works and what doesn't. All I know is that what used to work for me doesn't work anymore. If you're confident that you can drive traffic to your offer, whatever it is, then there is absolutely a market for you in the MMO niche, if that's what you want to do.

      Personally, I don't want anything to do with it anymore. You will find, as I did, that the expectations from people looking to make money online are unrealistic. On top of that, you will find that few people REALLY want to do the work. I had a coaching program at one time. Know how many people I had in that program out of like 50 that actually did the work?

      I could count them on less than one hand.

      The serial refunders are a total drain on your nerves. The pirating sites make you want to pull your hair out of your head. Any digital product you put out will find its way to Ebay and God knows where else. So if you're going to offer something, make it a high end service that can't be stolen, like coaching. If you have past success in other businesses then you have the street cred. Just present it to your prospects and let them know that you can help them make money. Hell, if I had the funds right now (I'm dead broke) I'd probably join your coaching program.

      If this is what you truly want to do, then do it. When I started back in 2003, I was already told that the field was too competitive with the likes of Mike Filsaime, The Rich Jerk and whoever else was floating around at the time. I still made my killing for 8 years, And if I wasn't a total idiot and watched trends instead of thinking nothing would change, I'd probably still be making a killing today. I guess we all have to learn from our mistakes.

      Anyway, if you're looking for somebody to tell you that you can do this who has actually been through it himself, I'm telling you. You can absolutely do this PROVIDED you REALLY do know your stuff. Otherwise, you're going to be in for a lot of disappointment.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Joe, I've gotta ask this question because, quite honestly, this is puzzling me.

        Don't you have any strong interests that you're really passionate about that you could get into?
        Yep. Music. How 'bout them apples? LOL

        True story, though. I've been playing guitar, singing (a bit) and writing songs for years now. I've actually had several people chastise me for not at least pursuing the songwriting. I used to jam at parties, etc. Most people I've heard say things like "you're an ok guitarist and an ok singer, but you write killer lyrics." I guess that many people can actually relate to them because most are ballads. Things about life and loss. That's what I tell people. If you ever come to see me play you'll need to bring two things - a Bic and a hanky. LOL

        I've had someone suggest that I start putting some songs up at BMI Music to make them available. It's on the agenda.

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        For example, I made a decent living in the "make money online" market for about 8 years and actually did just as Seth had done, built a small following. But then my main source of traffic generation dried up and I found myself literally out of business within a couple of years. My mistake was not taking some of what I earned, which was considerable, and put it into other forms of traffic generation like PPC or ad buys or whatever. I didn't do that because, quite honestly, I'm a cheap SOB. So everything crashed and burned.
        I was right there with you, Steven. I followed Lance Winslow, Sean Mize and Tim Gorman for a long time. At one point I had 850 articles posted at EZA, but I also spun dozens more plus wrote content for my sites. I kick myself now for not building lists, but as you say, live and learn. At least I was able to sell my primary sites, cash out and get some "severance" money in addition to the affiliate money I earned. I was one of the lucky few that saw the writing on the wall.

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Today, starting over, I decided to finally get into my first and biggest love...music. To that end I have several projects in the works. I know that at least one of them is going to catch fire and I'll make a nice living do it. It's just a matter of time as I have to get all my ducks in a row.
        I sincerely hope that it works out for you. I really do.

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        So I have to ask, with all your experience as a marketer, don't you have something like that, that you're passionate about that you can get into?
        See above. Music.

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        If not (and I find that very hard to believe) to answer your question, no, the market isn't saturated. There are always avenues you can take. The key is knowing how to drive traffic to your offer once you actually have an offer. I think your idea is a good one. My traffic generation skills are non existent these days as I have no idea what works and what doesn't. All I know is that what used to work for me doesn't work anymore. If you're confident that you can drive traffic to your offer, whatever it is, then there is absolutely a market for you in the MMO niche, if that's what you want to do.
        I've received some pretty sound advice from some individuals that I won't name in a post. Send me a PM and I'd be happy to share. Actually, I think it would be a perfect fit for you as well.

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Personally, I don't want anything to do with it anymore. You will find, as I did, that the expectations from people looking to make money online are unrealistic. On top of that, you will find that few people REALLY want to do the work. I had a coaching program at one time. Know how many people I had in that program out of like 50 that actually did the work?

        I could count them on less than one hand.

        The serial refunders are a total drain on your nerves. The pirating sites make you want to pull your hair out of your head. Any digital product you put out will find its way to Ebay and God knows where else. So if you're going to offer something, make it a high end service that can't be stolen, like coaching. If you have past success in other businesses then you have the street cred. Just present it to your prospects and let them know that you can help them make money. Hell, if I had the funds right now (I'm dead broke) I'd probably join your coaching program.
        Oh, I know that there are risks. I'd simply put money into a reserve to cover my refunds and chalk the rest up to doing business online. There'll always be dishonest people out there. You can't allow them to keep you from moving forward.

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


        Anyway, if you're looking for somebody to tell you that you can do this who has actually been through it himself, I'm telling you. You can absolutely do this PROVIDED you REALLY do know your stuff. Otherwise, you're going to be in for a lot of disappointment.
        Thanks Steven. I appreciate and respect your input.
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      • Profile picture of the author Highway55
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


        Don't you have any strong interests that you're really passionate about that you could get into?
        Steve, thanks for sharing your awesome story.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    I want to rebuild my online business. Actually, I've already begun. I put a deposit down for paid advertising so I can test some offers, built two niche sites with excellent content and have begun a steady stream of content syndication. I have a helper that's doing much of this for me, though I have to jump in as well next week to get things moving faster.
    Joe,

    I've been an entrepreneur since I was 15 years old (30 years ago) and have been focused on marketing via the internet for about 15 years. I've probably "rebuilt" my online business several times after testing out different business models.

    It sounds like you know where your passions and interest lies. And that's a good starting point.

    All marketers have their own biases, I certainly have my own. I quoted your paragraph above because one of the best near-passive income streams I've figured out is buying paid advertising from a variety of sources and sending them to offers. I test several offers per month (your mileage may vary depending on your budget and your time). I studied guys like Jonathan Mizel, Perry Marshall, Charles Kirkland, to name a few....

    One thing I strongly recommend, is to focus on one thing at a time because you run the chance of spreading yourself and your resources too thin. You can get burnt out if you're trying too much at one time. Unless you are a master at time management, have the ability to stay super focused while multi-tasking, I would focus on one thing until you've got a good handle on it and have a nice income stream coming in.

    I've thought of writing Kindle books....
    I've been writing for the Kindle platform (and others) for about a year now. If you like writing, this could be a great income generator for you.

    It's a lot of hard work in the beginning (unless you love to write as much as I do), but once you select the right niche and/or genre, you can make some really good income. People who say you can't make money on Kindle are NOT doing it right or they haven't written enough ebooks or they chose the wrong niche / genre. If you want to pursue Kindle seriously, I would suggest Geoff Shaw's Kindling course or Bryan Kumar's Kindle Club. You can't go wrong with either of those two.

    Do those of you who actually have experience in business online, offline or both think that there's still room for someone like myself to make a living at teaching elements of certain niches online? The target market can be for people who are online or offline in several areas.
    Yes. Very few markets (or niches) are truly "saturated". Sure, they exist, but they are rare. Market saturation is mostly a myth because if have a solid USP, great positioning, and know how market better than the other guy, you're going to win.

    If you're referring to the MMO (Make Money Online) market, it's pretty massive. Many people confused high competition with saturation, and those two are completely different things. The MMO market (which has many, many niches), while very competitive, has massive demand, with many customers buying multiple products and services, sometimes in one sitting.

    You can compete if you have a solid product / service, know how to position and promote yourself and have good customer service (too many people do not understand the power of great customer service).

    You can do it Joe. I have confidence that you can do it.

    RoD
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    • Profile picture of the author zerofill
      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post


      If you're referring to the MMO (Make Money Online) market, it's pretty massive. Many people confused high competition with saturation, and those two are completely different things. The MMO market (which has many, many niches), while very competitive, has massive demand, with many customers buying multiple products and services, sometimes in one sitting.

      You can compete if you have a solid product / service, know how to position and promote yourself and have good customer service (too many people do not understand the power of great customer service).
      Joe, like Rod is saying here... big difference between saturation and competition.

      The biggest problem is on this forum, people think of MMO as a WSO. When in reality the WarriorForum as big as it is, with as many members as it has, is really just a hair on a nats ass so to speak.

      But if we are talking about the type of products for instance that you would see in the WSO section, on JVZoo, on Clickbank, etc... I just went through this recently with people on my list.

      There are really 2 different business models that I see all the time.

      Model 1:

      The person who does try and test things, even creates something to make it easier for themselves (software product for instance), then launches it as a product in the marketplace. (This is the one I always did)


      Model 2:

      You have the launch model.

      This is typically where people don't do much testing, or actually use the products themselves. They will often find product creators that were unsuccessful with trying to sell a product. Repackage that product, and re-brand it, and sell it with their stamp of approval on it. They may also occasionally have their own ideas, and have a product created.

      They go to all the marketing get togethers, they make videos constantly, and make sure they are in the spotlight. They have to do that to garner a following and to make sure they have contacts that will run the circle of emails with them (mailing each others offers). You can think of them also as a sort of news reporter. They may have no idea what they are talking about, but they still can report it. For example, if they read a blog post from an authority in a certain area, they can put it in their own words, and sound incredibly intelligent.


      Now I don't have anything against either one of these models. But I consider them the top 2 business models in this neck of the woods.

      But unfortunately here, IM is used as a blanket term for basically those two types of business models. But in reality, that is like a fraction of what IM really is in the grand scheme of things.

      Now when you think of saturation and competition... I could be one company, in one vertical, and saturate a specific niche market. But I may be the only competition in that niche. So technically, it is saturated, but not much competition.

      Just ran into this with a very common service, it was semi saturated. But it was all because of one main company. So it really wasn't a lot of competition.

      Now if I was in a market like weight loss, I would say that is both saturated and competitive. Many people and companies are in that area, so the competition is high. But they also have PPC ads, Facebook ads, and web properties all over the place by the hundreds of thousands... so I would say that is both saturated and very competitive.

      But then again, the weight loss niche, and be broken down in many sub niches, when you start doing, what I always called thinking lateral.

      I'm not a big proponent of getting into a niche, because you are passionate about it.
      That does work for some people, but I am only passionate about the success of efforts I put forth. Which by the sounds of...

      Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

      My problem is niche related. I'm not really a fan of what I'm writing about. I CAN do the articles because I know a lot about the topics, but it's definitely not where I want to be spending most of my time.

      Honestly, my passion is marketing.
      ... it sounds like you have a similar way of thinking. I just am not passionate about niches. I am only passionate about the success of my efforts.

      So if you are like me, jumping into a niche that you are passionate about, would probably be a big mistake. You would probably find your not so passionate about it, very quickly.

      Like I said though, some people have to go into verticals they are passionate about. That just isn't for me. That and I get extremely bored doing staying in the same niches.

      HellI am just now getting ready to release something in this realm of IM again. I haven't released anything in it for probably a year and a half. I have been too busy with other projects.

      Anyway, enough of my babbling... I hope everything comes together for you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      Joe,

      I've been an entrepreneur since I was 15 years old (30 years ago) and have been focused on marketing via the internet for about 15 years. I've probably "rebuilt" my online business several times after testing out different business models.
      Really? You too? :-)

      (teasing)

      Actually, I've had some moderate highs and some lows. I've learned a lot of valuable lessons along the way.

      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      It sounds like you know where your passions and interest lies. And that's a good starting point.
      It's what makes me the most happy. I can do some other things and although I don't necessarily mind doing some of it, I tend to feel like a fake. Example, I know a LOT about weight loss. I've been up and down my entire life. However, I'm currently on the uptrend. I know exactly what I need to do to lose weight, get back in shape and get healthy. But I'm not currently doing it. It would be kind of like a heavy person as the instructor showing up for a fitness class that you paid for. Does that make sense? Of course, I could use a persona. It just feels odd to me.


      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      All marketers have their own biases, I certainly have my own. I quoted your paragraph above because one of the best near-passive income streams I've figured out is buying paid advertising from a variety of sources and sending them to offer. I test several offers per month (your mileage may vary depending on your budget and your time). I studied guys like Jonathan Mizel.
      I started off with Perry Marshall's "Definitive Guide" and Gauher Chaudhry's "Pay Per Click Formula" and did well promoting CPA offers years ago using Adwords all the way up until I lost my account and got slapped out of business overnight. I never could pull the same results from Bing and Yahoo, so I ended up just focusing on articles. I already had a respectable monthly income coming in from the articles by that time and also started flipping sites.

      I just joined one of Gauher's memberships again recently and am testing a traffic source that he uses with great success. That's where I put the deposit. I'm in the hole so far, but I'm finding out what doesn't work, which is good. I need to invest in LeadPages or something comparable, though. I used to build landers practically with my eyes closed using XsitePro, but it's outdated and time consuming. If you're gonna do it you need to go all in.


      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      One thing I strongly recommend, is to focus on one thing at a time because you run the chance of spreading yourself and your resources too thin. You can get burnt out if you're trying too much at one time. Unless you are a master at time management, have the ability to stay super focused while multi-tasking, I would focus on one thing until you've got a good handle on it and have a nice income stream coming in.
      I've thought about checking out Jonathan's WSO, but you're absolutely right. I really need to focus on one thing at a time, so I'd better hold off. I'm already getting overwhelmed between online and offline stuff.

      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      I've been writing for the Kindle platform (and others) for about a year now. If you like writing, this could be a great income generator for you.

      It's a lot of hard work in the beginning (unless you love to write as much as I do), but once you select the right niche and/or genre, you can make some really good income. People who say you can't make money on Kindle are NOT doing it right or they haven't written enough ebooks or they chose the wrong niche / genre. If you want to pursue Kindle seriously, I would suggest Geoff Shaw's Kindling course or Bryan Kumar's Kindle Club. You can't go wrong with either of those two.
      This is embarrassing, but I already bought Geoff's course well over a year ago. I got distracted for awhile then when I got back to it I let someone get in my head about me wanting to write "how to" books. I'm simply not a fiction writer, at least not yet.

      Also, I let someone else get into my head about my grammar. I mentioned that a few months ago in another thread and a very sweet fellow Warrior, who I'd never heard of before, but happens to make a nice living from her Kindle books, sent me a PM and gave me a lot of encouragement. I owe her a big hug. That was an awesome thing to do.

      One area where I did get stumped is when she said that I should write books "in sets of three", let them sit at Amazon for 3-4 months and see how they perform. If they do well, add to the topic with more books. If they don't perform, move on. They should all be related topics so you can refer people to each within the other. Make sense?

      It wasn't the 3-4 books that made me take a pause. It's the fact that I was already in the middle of one and couldn't think of a second or third. I do have a second topic in mind now, though, so I need to get back to work on the first book.

      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      Yes. Very few markets (or niches) are truly "saturated". Sure, they exist, but they are rare. Market saturation is mostly a myth because if have a solid USP, great positioning, and know how market better than the other guy, you're going to win.

      If you're referring to the MMO (Make Money Online) market, it's pretty massive. Many people confused high competition with saturation, and those two are completely different things. The MMO market (which has many, many niches), while very competitive, has massive demand, with many customers buying multiple products and services, sometimes in one sitting.

      You can compete if you have a solid product / service, know how to position and promote yourself and have good customer service (too many people do not understand the power of great customer service).
      This makes a lot of sense. So I should set up a blog with a brand in mind when buying the domain. Next, start out by writing three Kindle books on two separate sub-niches. Of course, I'd publish them as I go. This should take about two months for 5,000-10,000 word books. Then I can drive traffic to the blog from links within the books, article syndication, videos, podcasts and even paid traffic at some point. I could continue to write sets of three Kindle books in a different sub-niche every 2-3 months and add a new category to the blog each time.

      If I understand correctly, can't Kindle books also be converted into other formats on different platforms?

      Hmmm...the wheels are turning now. I need to o through Geoff's course again.

      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      You can do it Joe. I have confidence that you can do it.

      RoD

      That's a very nice thing to say, RoD, especially coming from someone like yourself that's been around awhile. Thank you.

      Of course, I'd love to hear any input you may have on my "rough draft" that I've written above.

      Joe
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  • Profile picture of the author TomVa
    I've been doing this since 2000 but not in mainstream I come from running my own adult sites and selling adult. I made thousands more money then I knew what to do with for a while, but to be honest the adult place is not where my heart is. I have started over yes I still have a few adult sites atm need money to pay bills but starting from scratch in mainstream IM.

    I can design my own things because I am a designer back end and front end I am still looking for my place in IM and think I found it. from your quote "Right now I happen to be at a crossroads." that is where I am at and I myself will do it. Guess what I am trying to say is good luck, if there is something I can do for you please let me know, I am not trying to sell you anything. Just trying to make new friends.

    Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    Here's the deal...

    20 years from now nobody will remember the names Frank Kern, Andy Jenkins
    or Perry Marshall. None of them will be teaching anything. The vast majority of
    those looking to learn how to market via the internet will have never heard their
    names.

    Are you getting my point? There will always be room for someone who offers excellence.
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    If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    Banned
    Do those of you who actually have experience in business online, offline or both think that there's still room for someone like myself to make a living at teaching elements of certain niches online? The target market can be for people who are online or offline in several areas.
    The short answer is "yes."

    You can share your experience, which is the thing newbies lack the most. All the little tricks you've learned over the years are the real "secret" in marketing.

    I too have been a student of marketing since childhood when I opened my "Outdoor Life" magazines to the classified section first. Some things never change and newbies need to learn them from someone. Why not you?

    As for the music, that's a whole other can of worms.

    I've been doing a lot of research on how people are using YT to get themselves heard. One of the most successful (I don't recall the source) was a teenage girl. She said she recorded covers of all the most popular new songs. If they weren't on YT yet was best. She posted them (the girl is talented) and YT search and word of mouth did the rest. It makes perfect sense to me and has been wildly successful for her.
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  • Profile picture of the author buysellbrowse
    Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

    The problem that I keep hearing is that the market is saturated. I think that a LOT of the IM market is saturated and I definitely don't have the capital to go head to head with people like Frank Kern, Andy Jenkins, Perry Marshall or anyone else in that crowd.
    The market is saturated with cheap, bad marketing. There are still relatively few outfits that can produce truly outstanding ads online. Do you have talent? Because that's what it takes. You can read all the books and articles out there, go to seminars and pay self-proclaimed gurus for newsletter tips guaranteeing to make you a quick fortune, etc. but if you have no talent, your online marketing product will be weak or average, one of many instead of one of a kind. In this cutthroat business, only the best make it to the top.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by buysellbrowse View Post

      The market is saturated with cheap, bad marketing. There are still relatively few outfits that can produce truly outstanding ads online. Do you have talent? Because that's what it takes. You can read all the books and articles out there, go to seminars and pay self-proclaimed gurus for newsletter tips guaranteeing to make you a quick fortune, etc. but if you have no talent, your online marketing product will be weak or average, one of many instead of one of a kind. In this cutthroat business, only the best make it to the top.

      Well, I've gone to a couple seminars and met many big name marketers. I learned a lot, but one was a straight up pitchfest.

      As far as having talent goes, yes, I do. Everyone has talent in some areas. That's not to toot my own horn, but I'm very confident in my skill set. I started in sales when I was 17 and have been at or near the top at nearly every sales job that I've held. I do it every day right now. I'm definitely qualified to teach it.

      I've also ran or owned several small businesses and have a LOT of real world experience. On the other hand, I've also failed multiple times. Unless someone can admit that, they've either won the lottery, they had a proven mentor from the start to guide them to success or they're full of crap. That's enabled me to see who's for real and who's full of crap on many occasions here.

      I also have real world experience doing IM. I'm not the expert that a few people are here, but I've been around the block enough times to know that I can teach certain things with confidence. It was my primary means of support for nearly 3 years and still made a decent amount when I finally sold out.

      By the way, as far as coming up with something that's "one of a kind" goes, that would be my way of doing certain things. It would be unique to me, but not necessarily original. There will still be overlap in many areas. It would be dumb and unnecessary to try to recreate the wheel. I'm simply interested in bringing in my own group of followers that enjoy what I have to say and find my teaching to be a good fit for them.

      Thanks for posting.

      Joe
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    Even though everyone and his dog is in the IM niche only a small minority are good at it or doing anything worthwhile or different so it's not difficult to stand out especially with the experience you have.

    There are endless sub-niches within the IM market to target yet most blogs just seem to be generic "internet marketing" blogs with no real core topic.

    You could easily stand out simply through your experience and / or by doing something slightly unique.
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    • Profile picture of the author jeremy49
      Originally Posted by Stuart Walker View Post

      Even though everyone and his dog is in the IM niche only a small minority are good at it or doing anything worthwhile or different so it's not difficult to stand out especially with the experience you have.

      Stuart has it, there is so much crap/ average products out there, something that stands out as being different and quality will always find a market at a premium price.

      As Tom put it
      The trap so many fall into is not appreciating all the knowledge they've acquired throughout the years. The number of things they now take for granted as "duh... obviously" are really astounding revelations to the folks outside the industry.
      This is refereed to as the Curse of knowledge. I believe most Gurus suffer from this when trying to teach and this in turn prevents many able students from taking action . The Guru inadvertently misses out important information, because he is too familiar with it. He unconsciously assumes that everybody knows all the basic information that he does, but of course the students often don't.

      If you can get more people to follow through and take action from your courses, ie defeat the curse of knowledge, you wouild in my opinion be made for life.
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      • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
        have begun a steady stream of content syndication. I have a helper that's doing much of this for me, though I have to jump in as well next week to get things moving faster.
        I would love to find an assistant to handle this sort of thing for me. I searched here in Warrior Forum and on Fiverr and didn't find anyone offering this service. Can someone give me a hint on how to find a helper like this? Maybe I'm using the wrong search terms. Thank you.

        Marcia Yudkin
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    One area where I'll admit that I'm weak is in effectively following up with prospects (online). Offline I just call once per month. No problem. Online is obviously much different. Some people say to email every day, others say 2-3 times per week. Lists must be segmented, messages segmented, offers made, etc. Some people say to make the high ticket offer available immediately and others say to work them through a sales process.

    This is definitely an area where I'll need help.
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  • Profile picture of the author Melissahoster
    Banned
    I won't disclose too much about my niche, but YES there's a big market there if you are in the teaching segment. You just have to be able to market it right.

    The truth is no matter how great your product is, you have to have a solid marketing plan to make money off it. The problem is most product creators get stuck with the marketing part. If you have great skills and can help people launch successful campaigns I think you should start marketing yourself.

    At the end of the day if you don't enjoy what you are doing, you know you will get stuck a couple of years down the line and that knowledge would keep haunting you even when you are doing well with your current business. So, I guess you should start marketing yourself right now.
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  • Profile picture of the author elmo033057
    I bounced all over the place until I heard Seth Godin say something that really impacted me. He said that whenever he was told by someone to do this or that, he would say "Sure I'll do that if I want to be mediocre!"

    Focus like a laser on ONE THING. In my case it is advertising copy. Become a total expert on one thing and dominate that field. I guarantee you every niche if it is profitable has gurus in it. There is always room for more....But only the best will move to the top.

    God Bless
    ELMO
    When it comes to high response copy, I've got your back!
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    • Profile picture of the author buysellbrowse
      Originally Posted by elmo033057 View Post

      ... bounced all over the place ... whenever he was told by someone to do this or that, he would say "Sure I'll do that if I want to be mediocre!"

      ... only the best will move to the top.

      God Bless
      ELMO
      This is a successful Elmo years later, answering questions at a press conference.



      Together, we can market anything!
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by elmo033057 View Post

      I bounced all over the place until I heard Seth Godin say something that really impacted me. He said that whenever he was told by someone to do this or that, he would say "Sure I'll do that if I want to be mediocre!"
      +1

      Originally Posted by elmo033057 View Post

      Focus like a laser on ONE THING. In my case it is advertising copy. Become a total expert on one thing and dominate that field. I guarantee you every niche if it is profitable has gurus in it. There is always room for more....But only the best will move to the top.
      This has been an issue for me for awhile now. I used to be able to multitask successfully. I got a couple proven mentors and came up with a solid plan for maximizing my time while doing a set amount of tasks 5 days per week. I also had an offline business that I was working part-time.

      I set it up to complete "tasks" rather than focusing on time. There were many nights I'd be up late getting things finished and also worked more than one Saturday playing "catch-up", but I always managed to get things finished. I burned out big time after a few months, though I made money from those efforts for a few years.

      Now I'm going 3 different directions. I still have an offline business that I have to work part-time to make ends meet and generate cash flow. No choice in the matter.

      I've already started an article syndication campaign and plan to continue that as it's begun to generate traffic. Fortunately, I have a helper that does 95% of that for me, so I won't have to spend too much time with that.

      I've decided to take Rod's advice, and the advice of a couple others, and start focusing on writing Kindle books. Actually, this is an area where I think I CAN multitask and not hurt myself at all.

      Example, as I mentioned before, I used to write 2 articles per day in 5 separate niches, 10 articles total. It was actually pretty simple (not easy) because I already knew a lot about each topic, so I didn't have to do much research. Also, 3 niches were very closely related.

      So, if I'm writing Kindle books about 3 closely related topics, all I need to do is do what I did before and write 500-1000 words for each book every day for around two weeks and they'll be finished, right? Writing 1500-3000 words per day sounds like a piece of cake when I used to write 5000+.

      The idea looks good on paper. We'll soon find out how it works in reality. I have one book I need to finish and plan to take Friday off, so I should easily be able to get that done this week, get a cover image, edited, formatted, etc. This first one is going to be a learning experience. I'll know a lot more very soon.

      Anyway...

      Originally Posted by elmo033057 View Post

      God Bless
      ELMO
      When it comes to high response copy, I've got your back!
      God bless you, too. Thanks for posting. I'll definitely keep you in mind if I decide to go that route. :-)

      Joe
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  • Profile picture of the author Brian Johnson
    Hey Joe,

    Forget about the competiion and move forward.
    Be yourself. Be authentic, share your ideas, tactics and provide
    value to the market place.

    Do that and you will be successful ...

    (if you want it bad enough).

    Best,
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by Brian Johnson View Post

      Hey Joe,

      Forget about the competiion and move forward.
      Be yourself. Be authentic, share your ideas, tactics and provide
      value to the market place.

      Do that and you will be successful ...

      (if you want it bad enough).

      Best,

      Thanks man!

      That means a LOT coming from you, too, Brian. That's my plan precisely.

      Freakin' rock stars coming out of the woodwork! I should have done this a long time ago.

      Joe
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  • Profile picture of the author David Hooper
    In general, I think most of the IM "guru" stuff is personality based. Look at any industry and you'll see more guys are that...or all PR.

    So that's one way to stand out.

    If you're really passionate about it, don't let competition stop you from jumping in.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by David Hooper View Post

      In general, I think most of the IM "guru" stuff is personality based. Look at any industry and you'll see more guys are that...or all PR.

      So that's one way to stand out.
      That's absolutely correct. I didn't catch that the first time I read it, but it's absolutely right. I even work from that angle much of the time. I supply items in an industry that requires a college degree and a license to work in, yet I've never worked in it at all and have serviced it for 16 of the past 21 years.

      That's just more proof that people will usually buy from those that they know, like and trust.

      Originally Posted by David Hooper View Post

      If you're really passionate about it, don't let competition stop you from jumping in.
      Thanks David. I'm getting fired up now. All of these people coming out of nowhere to offer a helping hand is pretty humbling - and appreciated more than you'll all ever know. Very cool.

      My journey begins today. :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    Joe,

    Here is an abbreviated example of how I look at situations like yours.


    First, do an asset inventory:

    Customers
    Customer contacts
    Customers willing to pay you money when you 'ask' for it
    Expertise in a niche
    Expertise in specific types of marketing: article marketing, PPC, SEO, flipping websites
    Know how to deliver products online
    Lessons and experiences from four offline businesses
    Two niche sites
    Article syndication campaign
    Direct sales experience
    Interest in Kindle ebooks
    Helper


    Next, what is it you want to change or don't like:

    Not like going back to customers when need money
    Need steady cash flow
    Not particularly like the niche have expertise in
    Want to focus more on just marketing
    Tired of what doing - 7 year itch? bored?


    What is holding you back:

    Lack of knowledge about IM market
    Fear of saturation


    Then evaluate solutions:


    1. Need continuity - get off the rat wheel of periodically needing to sell new stuff online.

    Idea: You have customers so you can put them on an autoresponder / newsletter for automation.

    Idea: Can an existing product be converted into continuity?

    Idea: Can consultation or coaching be added to an existing product where payments involve continuity and your time is controlled so it is not another rat wheel?

    Idea: eBooks, such as Kindle, is a form of passive income where you write once and receive royalties from future sales.

    My thought about this, contrary to what is on the thread so far: There is nothing magic about writing a "Kindle book". In fact, I don't think the topic should even exist. At the core it is mostly an html file put in the Amazon software and sold through Amazon. It is a format available on one website.

    The issue isn't a Kindle book, it is whether anyone will find it and then have an interest in buying it. IMHO you're making a mistake saying you'll just write Kindle books. That isn't even marketing. It's writing. Creating more products. Apparently doing what you are already doing.


    2. Need to research actual saturation

    Idea: What is saturation? Has a specific problem been identified and then market evaluation done so evaluate likelihood of being able to break in? Obtain customers?

    Idea: "Internet Marketing" is too broad. Infinite actually. Subniche or segment out based on specific expertise and then evaluate. Example: flipping websites. Is this flipping websites or flipping a specific type of website?

    Idea: Research how knowledge of this type issue - flipping a specific type of website can be leveraged into hands-off products to sell.

    Idea: Creating perceived value from selling knowledge on specific topics. What is saturated is the tsunami of generic garbage on the net created by spammers, wannabes, rehashers, and others taking advantage of a low barrier to entry. How can you get beyond that barrier to entry?

    Idea: If markets were saturated how come there is a steady stream of WSOs released daily that continue to sell?

    Idea: Is there really saturation when buyers are prepared to buy numerous products?

    Idea: Take a product from Kern, Jenkins and Marshall and create your own supplement buyers would be interested in.


    3. Address fear

    You're thinking small if you think the IM competition is Kern, Jenkins and Marshall. Except for an AdWords book I could not name a single product any of them have for sale. You're unfairly limiting yourself.

    Why are you really afraid of attacking the market? Fear of failure?


    4. Your own marketing

    You're in a niche you know something about and can easily write articles, but you're not a fan of it. You like "marketing".

    OK, why can't you market yourself? If you can't be passionate about marketing your knowledge in a niche you have expertise in, how do expect to market for anyone else in a niche you know even less about and probably have even less interest in?

    Otherwise, what I am reading is you are interested in abstract marketing, telling someone what to do, without doing actual marketing so someone might believe you.

    This is a long-winded way of saying you have an opportunity to self-create authority and trust, which will go a long way to addressing other issues, simply by applying your marketing expertise to your non-marketing niche.



    Red herring which has come up: Passion

    Passion = Interest in a Niche. It does not equal money. Plenty follow their passion and are broke. The question is, do you want to follow your passion, or do you want to make more money - and use some of that extra money to also pursue a passion?

    Sure, passion is great if the topic is something you can make a living on. Otherwise, it is a hobby. This is time for a reality check.

    Example: Wagenheim. This quote:

    Today, starting over, I decided to finally get into my first and biggest love...music. To that end I have several projects in the works. I know that at least one of them is going to catch fire and I'll make a nice living do it. It's just a matter of time as I have to get all my ducks in a row.
    Reality check: First music CD was released a year ago. It was announced on a 7/23/13 thread, and a few others. He is still talking about just starting and future what ifs. Passion is the stuff of dreamers who think things will take off and they'll be making money in a year.

    Do you want to dabble in a passion for a year and make squat? Dreaming about something magically catching fire? From your post I don't think so.


    Develop a Plan of Action

    I've gone through this pretty fast and no doubt more can be added to the above from various thread comments.

    Basically, identify your assets, where you want to be, and how you can use your assets to get from now to your goal. There will likely be holes, which are things you need to acquire from gaining knowledge or buying them / outsourcing.

    Once you have a general plan of action then take each item and break it down into specifics.



    One last thing, if the "article syndication" is what has been referred to on the forum you will find that is a loser of a strategy promoted by a few with wildly exaggerated expertise and results. If the strategy is what was used before the Internet you will find it still works great. I almost didn't include this so as not to get the thread hijacked on an article syndication debate. I'm just saying ...

    Now go back and read #4 again and your opportunity. This can be leveraged so many ways! Heads up for sure and no reason to be discouraged. You already have what it takes. It just needs to be put together in a way that will make your days more enjoyable and profitable.

    .
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Thanks for posting. This is quite a lot of information. I'll do my best to address each area.



      Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

      Joe,

      Here is an abbreviated example of how I look at situations like yours.


      First, do an asset inventory:

      Customers
      Customer contacts
      Customers willing to pay you money when you 'ask' for it
      Expertise in a niche
      Expertise in specific types of marketing: article marketing, PPC, SEO, flipping websites
      Know how to deliver products online
      Lessons and experiences from four offline businesses
      Two niche sites
      Article syndication campaign
      Direct sales experience
      Interest in Kindle ebooks
      Helper
      Hmmm...this sounds like Paul Myers. Good advice. :-)

      What I want to do is cut my offline business down to part time or possibly shut it down completely. I can make a decent living from my bedroom office by doing it, but some changes have occurred since late last year and I now have no choice but to carry inventory. That's pretty stressful as those invoices have to be paid regularly. That's not what I had in mind. I don't mind carrying inventory on a small scale, but have no desire to do so on a large scale.

      Regarding what's listed here I've eliminated many of these things already.

      Customers - offline business only
      Customer contacts - offline business only
      Customers willing to pay you money when you 'ask' for it - offline business only

      Expertise in a niche
      I have a lot of experience in several areas of both online and offline business. Regarding my offline business, I don't have that much knowledge of the niche, honestly. I simply ask a few questions, read detailed product descriptions and justify pricing. I market myself.

      What I am an expert in is the "process". I can teach most people with average intelligence how to quit working for others and take control of their lives. I can do it where there's a low barrier to entry as well, therefore it's also low risk.


      Expertise in specific types of marketing: article marketing, PPC, SEO, flipping websites
      I'm doing article syndication, not article directory marketing. I used to do a lot of article directory marketing, but it doesn't work anymore. I've contacted several Warriors who are doing this online and offline and I'm already seeing small results myself. I fully intend to extend it to offline publications as well.

      I've just begun to test PPC again. I have to watch my budget, though. I'll be testing things a few bucks at a time and building that out gradually.

      I've moved away from SEO and site flipping, though I do have some domains for sale on Flippa right now. The game has changed and it's not something that I have control over. They've made even more changes at Flippa recently.


      Know how to deliver products online
      I haven't perfected this yet, but there are a few different things to consider. I also already have a merchant account.

      Lessons and experiences from four offline businesses
      School of hard knocks. I've learned a lot from those experiences and can teach customers what pitfalls they can avoid. Most people have no idea how valuable this is.

      Two niche sites
      Article syndication campaign
      Works in progress that will take time to develop. Most of this is being outsourced.

      Direct sales experience
      More than two decades worth. Door to door, telemarketing, b2b and b2c.

      Interest in Kindle ebooks
      I need to clarify this as you mentioned that Kindling isn't marketing. What I intend to use it for is as lead magnets. Write shorter books with great information, link them to each other and have links to my niche related blog where I'll have higher priced offers available. Make sense?

      Helper
      For now my helper will continue writing and syndicating articles. I may have a Kindle book written on a topic that this person enjoys, though.

      Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

      Next, what is it you want to change or don't like:

      Not like going back to customers when need money
      Need steady cash flow
      Not particularly like the niche have expertise in
      Want to focus more on just marketing
      Tired of what doing - 7 year itch? bored?
      I'm burned out a bit. I enoy it, but I don't enjoy the stress. Of the 4 businesses I've started offline, 3 were in this niche. I also worked for and helped build 2 other companies for other people years ago. It's been a process of build an account base, business crashes (recession, war, stupidity on my part, etc), do IM for awhile, go back and rebuild the offline business again.

      I want a more sustainable income. I don't like being in debt. I thought that I'd be in a much better position than this 5-10 years ago. Stuff happens. I still count my blessings, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't getting burned out.


      What is holding you back:

      Lack of knowledge about IM market
      Fear of saturation
      A little of both, mostly fear. I tend to take criticism too personally sometimes. But, I know that I'm not going to please everyone. Someone else pointed that out recently as well. The best selling products on practically any platform will have at least a few negative reviews. I'm simply not going to please everybody. I'll want to get a customer service rep in place as soon as possible so I don't have to deal with that. I wan't to focus exclusively on money making activities.


      Then evaluate solutions:


      1. Need continuity - get off the rat wheel of periodically needing to sell new stuff online.
      Yep. I need continuity. An apx amount of income that I can rely on each month.

      Idea: You have customers so you can put them on an autoresponder / newsletter for automation.
      I've tried email marketing with my offline customers and it's MUCH less effective than calling them. I spoke to every customer and most don't even read them. They're getting hammered with adverts. Using the phone allows me to stand out.

      Idea: Can an existing product be converted into continuity?

      Idea: Can consultation or coaching be added to an existing product where payments involve continuity and your time is controlled so it is not another rat wheel?
      I don't have any existing products.

      Idea: eBooks, such as Kindle, is a form of passive income where you write once and receive royalties from future sales.

      My thought about this, contrary to what is on the thread so far: There is nothing magic about writing a "Kindle book". In fact, I don't think the topic should even exist. At the core it is mostly an html file put in the Amazon software and sold through Amazon. It is a format available on one website.

      The issue isn't a Kindle book, it is whether anyone will find it and then have an interest in buying it. IMHO you're making a mistake saying you'll just write Kindle books. That isn't even marketing. It's writing. Creating more products. Apparently doing what you are already doing.
      See above. Kindle books would be well written, information packed lead magnets.


      2. Need to research actual saturation

      Idea: What is saturation? Has a specific problem been identified and then market evaluation done so evaluate likelihood of being able to break in? Obtain customers?

      Idea: "Internet Marketing" is too broad. Infinite actually. Subniche or segment out based on specific expertise and then evaluate. Example: flipping websites. Is this flipping websites or flipping a specific type of website?

      Idea: Research how knowledge of this type issue - flipping a specific type of website can be leveraged into hands-off products to sell.

      Idea: Creating perceived value from selling knowledge on specific topics. What is saturated is the tsunami of generic garbage on the net created by spammers, wannabes, rehashers, and others taking advantage of a low barrier to entry. How can you get beyond that barrier to entry?

      Idea: If markets were saturated how come there is a steady stream of WSOs released daily that continue to sell?

      Idea: Is there really saturation when buyers are prepared to buy numerous products?

      Idea: Take a product from Kern, Jenkins and Marshall and create your own supplement buyers would be interested in.

      I see someone who I've never heard of before doing well with this method in the IM market. This guy has multiple books with dozens of positive reviews. All link to each other and his blog. It's also similar to an idea I got from "X" (John Barker).


      3. Address fear

      You're thinking small if you think the IM competition is Kern, Jenkins and Marshall. Except for an AdWords book I could not name a single product any of them have for sale. You're unfairly limiting yourself.

      Why are you really afraid of attacking the market? Fear of failure?
      The main reason I used those names is because I recently read someone else say that and I let it get into my head. I've actually met Perry (twice) and Andy once. They're nice, normal guys that put their pants on one leg at a time like the rest of us.

      I'll be honest, though. I do enjoy being a hermit. I wouldn't mind doing audios, webinars, etc, but the "Live at Joe's Place" vids will probably never happen. It's just not my thing.


      4. Your own marketing

      You're in a niche you know something about and can easily write articles, but you're not a fan of it. You like "marketing".

      OK, why can't you market yourself? If you can't be passionate about marketing your knowledge in a niche you have expertise in, how do expect to market for anyone else in a niche you know even less about and probably have even less interest in?

      Otherwise, what I am reading is you are interested in abstract marketing, telling someone what to do, without doing actual marketing so someone might believe you.

      This is a long-winded way of saying you have an opportunity to self-create authority and trust, which will go a long way to addressing other issues, simply by applying your marketing expertise to your non-marketing niche.

      My full intent when I entered this market was to use a persona. People do it all the time. I know a lot about the niche, but I have no interest in becoming the spokesman for it. Honestly, I'll probably sell the site once it starts earning a decent amount.


      Red herring which has come up: Passion

      Passion = Interest in a Niche. It does not equal money. Plenty follow their passion and are broke. The question is, do you want to follow your passion, or do you want to make more money - and use some of that extra money to also pursue a passion?

      Sure, passion is great if the topic is something you can make a living on. Otherwise, it is a hobby. This is time for a reality check.

      Example: Wagenheim. This quote:

      Reality check: First music CD was released a year ago. It was announced on a 7/23/13 thread, and a few others. He is still talking about just starting and future what ifs. Passion is the stuff of dreamers who think things will take off and they'll be making money in a year.

      Do you want to dabble in a passion for a year and make squat? Dreaming about something magically catching fire? From your post I don't think so.

      Oh, I'm fully aware of that. I love my music, but I'm not naive enough to think that I'm going to submit my songs and immediately make a bundle of cash. That's a secondary thing.

      I'm interested in teaching what I know about marketing, both online and offline, especially offline, because I know for a fact that it could help a lot of people escape the rat race. I really like to help others. If I can do that and make a living at the same time I'll be mega-happy!


      Develop a Plan of Action

      I've gone through this pretty fast and no doubt more can be added to the above from various thread comments.

      Basically, identify your assets, where you want to be, and how you can use your assets to get from now to your goal. There will likely be holes, which are things you need to acquire from gaining knowledge or buying them / outsourcing.

      Once you have a general plan of action then take each item and break it down into specifics.

      I'm working on it as we speak. :-)


      One last thing, if the "article syndication" is what has been referred to on the forum you will find that is a loser of a strategy promoted by a few with wildly exaggerated expertise and results. If the strategy is what was used before the Internet you will find it still works great. I almost didn't include this so as not to get the thread hijacked on an article syndication debate. I'm just saying ...

      I understand. I'm confident in the direction it's going. As I mentioned, I've also received some solid advice from more than one person recently.


      Now go back and read #4 again and your opportunity. This can be leveraged so many ways! Heads up for sure and no reason to be discouraged. You already have what it takes. It just needs to be put together in a way that will make your days more enjoyable and profitable.
      I'll do that. Thanks again for posting. You've given me a lot to think about.

      Best,

      Joe
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    Hi Joe,

    Kudos on your success, and thanks for your service!

    Sounds like an energy problem to me. Follow your passion, and stop doing whatever you're not a fan of. Sounds too simple, but honest to goodness, when I learned to do only what I loved, and to embrace moments of discontent, I saw greater success.

    If marketing makes you feel alive you gotta market, and promote/work niches which make you feel alive. Then you'll attract like-minded folks/customers/partners.

    Take it from a guy living in Fiji now, overlooking the Pacific Ocean for the next 4 months

    Follow the passion, and you'll open so many neat doors.

    All the best!
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  • Profile picture of the author nicholasb
    The only people that will tell you a niche is saturated are broke marketers who have no idea what they are doing.

    I specialize in going after the biggest most competitive markets. Take into consideration probably more than 90% of the people in that market have absolutely no idea what they are doing, their products suck and they've only made a few bucks here and there teaching others how to make money.

    Anyone with a little bit of real knowledge can come in and make a lot of money in this industry.

    I learn from al the old scholars in direct response, hell I passed out last night reading Joe Karbo's lazy mans way to riches, and woke up and read something from Ogilvy written in the 20's

    This industry needs a washing, too many people teaching "whats hot this week but wont work next week" tactics. We need more people who actually know a thing or two teaching.

    I'd say go for it, and don't let the people who say a market is saturated stop you. It's only saturated for them (that's just their excuse for why it didn't work for them) when in reality it's cause they don't know the basics
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Hi Joe,

      Maybe Jim Carey's message in this one minute video will help:

      Jim Carrey on how his late father inspired him to follow his dreams - YouTube

      I can totally relate to that. My Dad toured with many country/western greats back in the 1950's and could have gone on to become a major star himself, but he had some personal issues and beliefs that tripped him up and he never did it.

      Unfortunately, Dad's problems led to alcoholism and poverty. He worked as a carpenter for years and played clubs part-time to ease his regrets.

      I suppose there's a pretty big message here, eh?

      Thanks for sharing.

      Joe
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Reed
    Try speaking to some business owners that are not web savvy, on a casual basis, and I think you'll see that you're really underestimating your own current abilities.

    The trap so many fall into is not appreciating all the knowledge they've acquired throughout the years. The number of things they now take for granted as "duh... obviously" are really astounding revelations to the folks outside the industry.

    With your experience level, I'll bet 100 to 1 odds that you know 100X more than the guy running the successful __________ business you frequent.

    Now, how to tap into those markets can be a bit tricky as many of these folks have no idea of what they don't know so they don't know they don't know and often are not interested in finding out until someone shows them the light.
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  • Profile picture of the author Roy Carter
    Joe, consistency is the key.

    For example, you stated the number of words you reckoned you could write per day. Well Kim Roach (I think it was), put out a blog post recently that talked about the fact that Stephen King writes 500 words a day CONSISTENTLY Monday - Friday and that allows him to get 10k words a month down on paper and to be able to create a couple of best sellers a year.

    If you know your subject and the subject/niche is monetizable, plus if you can express yourself well enough to create good content, you'll always have an audience to deliver value to.

    Looks to me like you can string a sentence together so time to stop talking about it and start making it happen ey?
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    Well, you have a lot of experience. Certainly, it is enough to write several kindle e-books and put them on amazon. Have you given some thought to creating your very own you tube channel and posting some mini movies. They will increase your exposure. Also, these movies can generate money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by seobro View Post

      Well, you have a lot of experience. Certainly, it is enough to write several kindle e-books and put them on amazon. Have you given some thought to creating your very own you tube channel and posting some mini movies. They will increase your exposure. Also, these movies can generate money.
      Yes, I've thought about setting up a YouTube channel, but as I mentioned before, I'm really not comfortable in front of the camera. It's not really even that so much, actually. I guess it's just that I've had so much face to face interaction with the public that I just don't care to be that guy anymore. I could put a picture up though, and make videos, do presentations, podcasts, etc. That's not a problem.

      Thanks for posting.

      Joe
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  • Profile picture of the author Nic Oliver
    Joe,

    I set up my business in 1990 as a business trainer, consultant and coach. I first trained as a coach in the mid 70s and as a trainer in the mid 80s.

    I'm currently repositioning and rebuilding my business so that a lot more of my business is online. I'm like you - I've spent all of those years in face-to-face work with people and I'm becoming increasingly reluctant to do it. And I know for me that this is a surefire sign of burnout.

    We are blessed that the internet gives us the opportunity to build up such a wide variety of businesses!

    I wasted a lot of money on the things I was told I "had to have" - products on:
    • Listbuilding and traffic generation
    • Content creation including PLR and copywriting
    • Affiliate building
    • Business Building
    • Market research
    • Search Engine domination
    • Product development
    • Software development
    • Site Building
    • PPC, CPA etc.
    Plus various coaching and mentoring programmes. The result? Around $70k of expenditure and around $1500 of income!

    Then I decided to apply my offline principles online and it simplified things considerably. there are only 3 things you need to do to build a business:

    1. Target the right people
    2. Add value
    3. Give clients the chance to get the results they're looking for.

    It works whether your business is online or offline. For me, I've come to realise that I have a lot of tools and techniques I can teach anyone who wants to be a consultant, coach or mentor. My experience, skills and knowledge help me to add value and to help people get the results they are looking for.

    So I'm putting together a range of WSOs and digital seminars to help those who want to help others.

    I disagree strongly with kindsvater who wrote that passion is a red herring - it's the passion that gets you out of bed in the morning, it's the passion that helps you persevere when times are tough. It's the passion that helps you be congruent with your clients.

    So, what are you passionate about?
    Where does your target market hang out?
    How can you add value vis your competition? It may be a product or a service.
    What problems are your target market trying to solve and how can you help them?
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Hi Nic,

      Thanks for posting. I'll go through and reply to some of what you've written.


      Originally Posted by Nic Oliver View Post

      Joe,

      I set up my business in 1990 as a business trainer, consultant and coach. I first trained as a coach in the mid 70s and as a trainer in the mid 80s.
      This is an area that I'm seriously considering. I've trained many people in previous jobs I've held, as well as training outsourcers. Many have gone on to do very well.

      Originally Posted by Nic Oliver View Post

      I'm currently repositioning and rebuilding my business so that a lot more of my business is online. I'm like you - I've spent all of those years in face-to-face work with people and I'm becoming increasingly reluctant to do it. And I know for me that this is a surefire sign of burnout.

      We are blessed that the internet gives us the opportunity to build up such a wide variety of businesses!
      This is something where I kind of have "one foot in the door" because I know that doing so would me in the long term. My problem with it is that I have a physical product business and need an ecommerce site. I also have a LOT of products that would need to be added, as well as regular updates anytime a price changed or something was out of stock. In addition, websites don't promote themselves. SEO takes time and is unreliable. Pay per click marketing is effective, but it's a very competitive niche and my margins aren't very high. They're great if I just continue to use the phone, though.

      Originally Posted by Nic Oliver View Post

      I wasted a lot of money on the things I was told I "had to have" - products on:
      • Listbuilding and traffic generation
      • Content creation including PLR and copywriting
      • Affiliate building
      • Business Building
      • Market research
      • Search Engine domination
      • Product development
      • Software development
      • Site Building
      • PPC, CPA etc.
      Plus various coaching and mentoring programmes. The result? Around $70k of expenditure and around $1500 of income!
      Of that list, I do believe that list building is an essential part of doing business online. Of course, I'd always have the phone number available, but some people prefer to be contacted by email.

      Originally Posted by Nic Oliver View Post

      Then I decided to apply my offline principles online and it simplified things considerably. there are only 3 things you need to do to build a business:

      1. Target the right people
      2. Add value
      3. Give clients the chance to get the results they're looking for.

      It works whether your business is online or offline. For me, I've come to realise that I have a lot of tools and techniques I can teach anyone who wants to be a consultant, coach or mentor. My experience, skills and knowledge help me to add value and to help people get the results they are looking for.

      So I'm putting together a range of WSOs and digital seminars to help those who want to help others.
      Great! I'll keep an eye out for them.

      Originally Posted by Nic Oliver View Post

      I disagree strongly with kindsvater who wrote that passion is a red herring - it's the passion that gets you out of bed in the morning, it's the passion that helps you persevere when times are tough. It's the passion that helps you be congruent with your clients.
      I think that there are two answers to this. Yes, in a perfect world working something that you're passionate about would be profitable. Sometimes very profitable. On the other hand, there are many things that aren't going to be profitable no matter what. IM legend Marlon Sanders once said "find out where the money's being spent and throw yourself in it's path". I tend to think that's sound advice, though it would be nice if it were a topic you're at least interested in learning about. It can always be outsourced, too.

      Originally Posted by Nic Oliver View Post

      So, what are you passionate about?
      Where does your target market hang out?
      How can you add value vis your competition? It may be a product or a service.
      What problems are your target market trying to solve and how can you help them?
      I'm passionate about marketing. My target market is undecided as I haven't made a decision about exactly what I'm going to do yet.

      I'm cleaning up on a couple other projects and have a couple unexpected personal challenges to deal with health wise. I'll give it a bit more thought. I should have something in place soon.

      Joe
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  • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
    I've earned a decent living in the internet marketing niche for 18 years now, yet didn't find it very gratifying until I shifted my focus to selling something that I knew everyone both wanted/need, and would actually use once they purchased it.

    You see, I've looked at hundred of really great products that WOULD make a huge difference in people's lives if they would just use the product/training all the way through to getting the promised results. Most IM'ers buy a product and before they have even finished reading the instruction manual or going through the video training, they notice another shiny object... and go chasing after something that looks easier/faster/better.

    Watching people that you honestly care about do that for years can be very heart breaking.

    So, I personally stepped back and asked what do all businesses online and offline need, that they will happily pay for, and that they will actually USE.

    Google showed me the answer. They sell traffic... picks and shovels to the gold miners. I do too now, whether that traffic is clicks or help building a list.

    I think that that is a product that will always be in demand , and if you establish yourself as one of the good guys, you won't really have any competition...customers will seek you out and repeat customers will seek you out.

    I also believe that you should go to where the money is. Offline, brick and mortar businesses budget for advertising and generating new lead... so that is also where I recommend someone with your level of experience/expertise focus.

    Willie
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Hello Willie,

      Thank you so much for sharing your expertise!


      Originally Posted by Willie Crawford View Post

      I've earned a decent living in the internet marketing niche for 18 years now, yet didn't find it very gratifying until I shifted my focus to selling something that I knew everyone both wanted/need, and would actually use once they purchased it.
      This is extremely important to me too. I want to be one of the good guys. There's a lot of gratification in helping others and selling honest products and services. I've promoted some CPA offers in the past that I didn't feel good about at all. I don't ever want to feel like that again.

      Originally Posted by Willie Crawford View Post

      You see, I've looked at hundred of really great products that WOULD make a huge difference in people's lives if they would just use the product/training all the way through to getting the promised results. Most IM'ers buy a product and before they have even finished reading the instruction manual or going through the video training, they notice another shiny object... and go chasing after something that looks easier/faster/better.

      Watching people that you honestly care about do that for years can be very heart breaking.
      I've been one of the guilty ones, unfortunately. The times when I had the most success I was focused on one one thing at a time, article marketing and PPC.

      Originally Posted by Willie Crawford View Post

      So, I personally stepped back and asked what do all businesses online and offline need, that they will happily pay for, and that they will actually USE.

      Google showed me the answer. They sell traffic... picks and shovels to the gold miners. I do too now, whether that traffic is clicks or help building a list.

      I think that that is a product that will always be in demand , and if you establish yourself as one of the good guys, you won't really have any competition...customers will seek you out and repeat customers will seek you out.
      I agree with you 100%.

      Originally Posted by Willie Crawford View Post

      I also believe that you should go to where the money is. Offline, brick and mortar businesses budget for advertising and generating new lead... so that is also where I recommend someone with your level of experience/expertise focus.

      Willie
      Would you mind clarifying that a bit more, please? What exactly should I be offering offline businesses? Qualified leads? I was just having this conversation in another area of the forum earlier and I'm not 100% clear on the lead building process.

      My goal is to build a business that I can run anywhere with a laptop and a cell phone, but I'd prefer that it be mostly hands off at some point. I already have a small biz that I run from home, but I'm married to it because I have to stock a certain amount of inventory that must be paid for regularly. I'd really like to get into a service based business with repeat customers.

      Would you mind sharing your thoughts on how you'd do this? I'd really appreciate it.

      Thanks,

      Joe
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      • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
        Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post


        Would you mind clarifying that a bit more, please? What exactly should I be offering offline businesses? Qualified leads? I was just having this conversation in another area of the forum earlier and I'm not 100% clear on the lead building process.

        My goal is to build a business that I can run anywhere with a laptop and a cell phone, but I'd prefer that it be mostly hands off at some point. I already have a small biz that I run from home, but I'm married to it because I have to stock a certain amount of inventory that must be paid for regularly. I'd really like to get into a service based business with repeat customers.

        Would you mind sharing your thoughts on how you'd do this? I'd really appreciate it.

        Thanks,

        Joe

        Build and rank website for terms like "whatever city plastic surgeon" "whatever city cosmetic surgeon" "whatever city DUI lawyer "whatever city realtor" etc.

        Rent these sites out to professionals in these niches.. one in each niche per city. If a cliet ever stops renting the site, rent it to a competitor. Focus on niches where the lifetime value of a client is high.

        Set up optimized social media profiles on the major social media platforms for clients. Charge them a fee for that. Also offer to update those profiles, and interact with their contacts...for a fee.

        Outsource most of grunt work. You are really getting paid for your expertise.

        This is exactly what I do by the way, but I do it in a way that leaves me plenty of free time to enjoy life.


        I hope that helps. I realize that my answer is somewhat broadbrush.

        Willie
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
          Originally Posted by Willie Crawford View Post

          Build and rank website for terms like "whatever city plastic surgeon" "whatever city cosmetic surgeon" "whatever city DUI lawyer "whatever city realtor" etc.

          Rent these sites out to professionals in these niches.. one in each niche per city. If a cliet ever stops renting the site, rent it to a competitor. Focus on niches where the lifetime value of a client is high.

          Set up optimized social media profiles on the major social media platforms for clients. Charge them a fee for that. Also offer to update those profiles, and interact with their contacts...for a fee.

          Outsource most of grunt work. You are really getting paid for your expertise.

          This is exactly what I do by the way, but I do it in a way that leaves me plenty of free time to enjoy life.


          I hope that helps. I realize that my answer is somewhat broadbrush.

          Willie

          Actually, it makes much more sense than you realize. I've heard Gene Pimental mention doing something similar to this a few years ago, though there were some differences. So you're talking one niche at a time, exact match domains or similar?

          Now I suppose the next question would be "what are you using for SEO?" You don't have to answer publicly. Actually, you don't have to answer at all, but I'm hoping you will. You could send me a PM, if you don't mind?

          Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author jgant
    I've spent thousands on dozens of IM products. The point is the MMO niche is filled with buyers who buy over and over. I do this because learning one tip is worth the price of most products.

    Therefore there is plenty of room for more quality products and info. The key is that the info be based on real results and experience... unless of course you go into software development.

    What business model earned you the most money? Teach that because you have real results to teach.
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