A Question For Established Marketers Only - No Newbies Please!

There ia always room if you have a specific skill set and people are willing to pay for your knowledge then by all means do it.

There is a newer site called Curious you may want to check out where you can put together a video series and charge customers for access to your training, or do it on your own that would be up to you obviously.

And trust me the market is not too saturated the Internet is huge and no matter how big any marketer is you used Frank Kern as an example they can't advertise everywhere.

This is where you come in

Sometimes all it takes is 1 Google search, forum post, classified ad, Facebook post, etc.. to find you and if you gain there trust and genuinely help them you just gained a customer for life.

Joe,

I've been an entrepreneur since I was 15 years old (30 years ago) and have been focused on marketing via the internet for about 15 years. I've probably "rebuilt" my online business several times after testing out different business models.

It sounds like you know where your passions and interest lies. And that's a good starting point.

All marketers have their own biases, I certainly have my own. I quoted your paragraph above because one of the best near-passive income streams I've figured out is buying paid advertising from a variety of sources and sending them to offers. I test several offers per month (your mileage may vary depending on your budget and your time). I studied guys like Jonathan Mizel, Perry Marshall, Charles Kirkland, to name a few....

One thing I strongly recommend, is to focus on one thing at a time because you run the chance of spreading yourself and your resources too thin. You can get burnt out if you're trying too much at one time. Unless you are a master at time management, have the ability to stay super focused while multi-tasking, I would focus on one thing until you've got a good handle on it and have a nice income stream coming in.

I've been writing for the Kindle platform (and others) for about a year now. If you like writing, this could be a great income generator for you.

It's a lot of hard work in the beginning (unless you love to write as much as I do), but once you select the right niche and/or genre, you can make some really good income. People who say you can't make money on Kindle are NOT doing it right or they haven't written enough ebooks or they chose the wrong niche / genre. If you want to pursue Kindle seriously, I would suggest Geoff Shaw's Kindling course or Bryan Kumar's Kindle Club. You can't go wrong with either of those two.

Yes. Very few markets (or niches) are truly "saturated". Sure, they exist, but they are rare. Market saturation is mostly a myth because if have a solid USP, great positioning, and know how market better than the other guy, you're going to win.

If you're referring to the MMO (Make Money Online) market, it's pretty massive. Many people confused high competition with saturation, and those two are completely different things. The MMO market (which has many, many niches), while very competitive, has massive demand, with many customers buying multiple products and services, sometimes in one sitting.

You can compete if you have a solid product / service, know how to position and promote yourself and have good customer service (too many people do not understand the power of great customer service).

You can do it Joe. I have confidence that you can do it.

RoD

I've been doing this since 2000 but not in mainstream I come from running my own adult sites and selling adult. I made thousands more money then I knew what to do with for a while, but to be honest the adult place is not where my heart is. I have started over yes I still have a few adult sites atm need money to pay bills but starting from scratch in mainstream IM.

I can design my own things because I am a designer back end and front end I am still looking for my place in IM and think I found it. from your quote "Right now I happen to be at a crossroads." that is where I am at and I myself will do it. Guess what I am trying to say is good luck, if there is something I can do for you please let me know, I am not trying to sell you anything. Just trying to make new friends.

Tom

Here's the deal...

20 years from now nobody will remember the names Frank Kern, Andy Jenkins
or Perry Marshall. None of them will be teaching anything. The vast majority of
those looking to learn how to market via the internet will have never heard their
names.

Are you getting my point? There will always be room for someone who offers excellence.

The short answer is "yes."

You can share your experience, which is the thing newbies lack the most. All the little tricks you've learned over the years are the real "secret" in marketing.

I too have been a student of marketing since childhood when I opened my "Outdoor Life" magazines to the classified section first. Some things never change and newbies need to learn them from someone. Why not you?

As for the music, that's a whole other can of worms.

I've been doing a lot of research on how people are using YT to get themselves heard. One of the most successful (I don't recall the source) was a teenage girl. She said she recorded covers of all the most popular new songs. If they weren't on YT yet was best. She posted them (the girl is talented) and YT search and word of mouth did the rest. It makes perfect sense to me and has been wildly successful for her.

The market is saturated with cheap, bad marketing. There are still relatively few outfits that can produce truly outstanding ads online. Do you have talent? Because that's what it takes. You can read all the books and articles out there, go to seminars and pay self-proclaimed gurus for newsletter tips guaranteeing to make you a quick fortune, etc. but if you have no talent, your online marketing product will be weak or average, one of many instead of one of a kind. In this cutthroat business, only the best make it to the top.

Even though everyone and his dog is in the IM niche only a small minority are good at it or doing anything worthwhile or different so it's not difficult to stand out especially with the experience you have.

There are endless sub-niches within the IM market to target yet most blogs just seem to be generic "internet marketing" blogs with no real core topic.

You could easily stand out simply through your experience and / or by doing something slightly unique.

One area where I'll admit that I'm weak is in effectively following up with prospects (online). Offline I just call once per month. No problem. Online is obviously much different. Some people say to email every day, others say 2-3 times per week. Lists must be segmented, messages segmented, offers made, etc. Some people say to make the high ticket offer available immediately and others say to work them through a sales process.

This is definitely an area where I'll need help.

I won't disclose too much about my niche, but YES there's a big market there if you are in the teaching segment. You just have to be able to market it right.

The truth is no matter how great your product is, you have to have a solid marketing plan to make money off it. The problem is most product creators get stuck with the marketing part. If you have great skills and can help people launch successful campaigns I think you should start marketing yourself.

At the end of the day if you don't enjoy what you are doing, you know you will get stuck a couple of years down the line and that knowledge would keep haunting you even when you are doing well with your current business. So, I guess you should start marketing yourself right now.

I bounced all over the place until I heard Seth Godin say something that really impacted me. He said that whenever he was told by someone to do this or that, he would say "Sure I'll do that if I want to be mediocre!"

Focus like a laser on ONE THING. In my case it is advertising copy. Become a total expert on one thing and dominate that field. I guarantee you every niche if it is profitable has gurus in it. There is always room for more....But only the best will move to the top.

God Bless
ELMO
When it comes to high response copy, I've got your back!

Hey Joe,

Forget about the competiion and move forward.
Be yourself. Be authentic, share your ideas, tactics and provide
value to the market place.

Do that and you will be successful ...

(if you want it bad enough).

Best,

In general, I think most of the IM "guru" stuff is personality based. Look at any industry and you'll see more guys are that...or all PR.

So that's one way to stand out.

If you're really passionate about it, don't let competition stop you from jumping in.

Joe,

Here is an abbreviated example of how I look at situations like yours.


First, do an asset inventory:

Customers
Customer contacts
Customers willing to pay you money when you 'ask' for it
Expertise in a niche
Expertise in specific types of marketing: article marketing, PPC, SEO, flipping websites
Know how to deliver products online
Lessons and experiences from four offline businesses
Two niche sites
Article syndication campaign
Direct sales experience
Interest in Kindle ebooks
Helper


Next, what is it you want to change or don't like:

Not like going back to customers when need money
Need steady cash flow
Not particularly like the niche have expertise in
Want to focus more on just marketing
Tired of what doing - 7 year itch? bored?


What is holding you back:

Lack of knowledge about IM market
Fear of saturation


Then evaluate solutions:


1. Need continuity - get off the rat wheel of periodically needing to sell new stuff online.

Idea: You have customers so you can put them on an autoresponder / newsletter for automation.

Idea: Can an existing product be converted into continuity?

Idea: Can consultation or coaching be added to an existing product where payments involve continuity and your time is controlled so it is not another rat wheel?

Idea: eBooks, such as Kindle, is a form of passive income where you write once and receive royalties from future sales.

My thought about this, contrary to what is on the thread so far: There is nothing magic about writing a "Kindle book". In fact, I don't think the topic should even exist. At the core it is mostly an html file put in the Amazon software and sold through Amazon. It is a format available on one website.

The issue isn't a Kindle book, it is whether anyone will find it and then have an interest in buying it. IMHO you're making a mistake saying you'll just write Kindle books. That isn't even marketing. It's writing. Creating more products. Apparently doing what you are already doing.


2. Need to research actual saturation

Idea: What is saturation? Has a specific problem been identified and then market evaluation done so evaluate likelihood of being able to break in? Obtain customers?

Idea: "Internet Marketing" is too broad. Infinite actually. Subniche or segment out based on specific expertise and then evaluate. Example: flipping websites. Is this flipping websites or flipping a specific type of website?

Idea: Research how knowledge of this type issue - flipping a specific type of website can be leveraged into hands-off products to sell.

Idea: Creating perceived value from selling knowledge on specific topics. What is saturated is the tsunami of generic garbage on the net created by spammers, wannabes, rehashers, and others taking advantage of a low barrier to entry. How can you get beyond that barrier to entry?

Idea: If markets were saturated how come there is a steady stream of WSOs released daily that continue to sell?

Idea: Is there really saturation when buyers are prepared to buy numerous products?

Idea: Take a product from Kern, Jenkins and Marshall and create your own supplement buyers would be interested in.


3. Address fear

You're thinking small if you think the IM competition is Kern, Jenkins and Marshall. Except for an AdWords book I could not name a single product any of them have for sale. You're unfairly limiting yourself.

Why are you really afraid of attacking the market? Fear of failure?


4. Your own marketing

You're in a niche you know something about and can easily write articles, but you're not a fan of it. You like "marketing".

OK, why can't you market yourself? If you can't be passionate about marketing your knowledge in a niche you have expertise in, how do expect to market for anyone else in a niche you know even less about and probably have even less interest in?

Otherwise, what I am reading is you are interested in abstract marketing, telling someone what to do, without doing actual marketing so someone might believe you.

This is a long-winded way of saying you have an opportunity to self-create authority and trust, which will go a long way to addressing other issues, simply by applying your marketing expertise to your non-marketing niche.



Red herring which has come up: Passion

Passion = Interest in a Niche. It does not equal money. Plenty follow their passion and are broke. The question is, do you want to follow your passion, or do you want to make more money - and use some of that extra money to also pursue a passion?

Sure, passion is great if the topic is something you can make a living on. Otherwise, it is a hobby. This is time for a reality check.

Example: Wagenheim. This quote:

Reality check: First music CD was released a year ago. It was announced on a 7/23/13 thread, and a few others. He is still talking about just starting and future what ifs. Passion is the stuff of dreamers who think things will take off and they'll be making money in a year.

Do you want to dabble in a passion for a year and make squat? Dreaming about something magically catching fire? From your post I don't think so.


Develop a Plan of Action

I've gone through this pretty fast and no doubt more can be added to the above from various thread comments.

Basically, identify your assets, where you want to be, and how you can use your assets to get from now to your goal. There will likely be holes, which are things you need to acquire from gaining knowledge or buying them / outsourcing.

Once you have a general plan of action then take each item and break it down into specifics.



One last thing, if the "article syndication" is what has been referred to on the forum you will find that is a loser of a strategy promoted by a few with wildly exaggerated expertise and results. If the strategy is what was used before the Internet you will find it still works great. I almost didn't include this so as not to get the thread hijacked on an article syndication debate. I'm just saying ...

Now go back and read #4 again and your opportunity. This can be leveraged so many ways! Heads up for sure and no reason to be discouraged. You already have what it takes. It just needs to be put together in a way that will make your days more enjoyable and profitable.

.

Hi Joe,

Kudos on your success, and thanks for your service!

Sounds like an energy problem to me. Follow your passion, and stop doing whatever you're not a fan of. Sounds too simple, but honest to goodness, when I learned to do only what I loved, and to embrace moments of discontent, I saw greater success.

If marketing makes you feel alive you gotta market, and promote/work niches which make you feel alive. Then you'll attract like-minded folks/customers/partners.

Take it from a guy living in Fiji now, overlooking the Pacific Ocean for the next 4 months

Follow the passion, and you'll open so many neat doors.

All the best!

The only people that will tell you a niche is saturated are broke marketers who have no idea what they are doing.

I specialize in going after the biggest most competitive markets. Take into consideration probably more than 90% of the people in that market have absolutely no idea what they are doing, their products suck and they've only made a few bucks here and there teaching others how to make money.

Anyone with a little bit of real knowledge can come in and make a lot of money in this industry.

I learn from al the old scholars in direct response, hell I passed out last night reading Joe Karbo's lazy mans way to riches, and woke up and read something from Ogilvy written in the 20's

This industry needs a washing, too many people teaching "whats hot this week but wont work next week" tactics. We need more people who actually know a thing or two teaching.

I'd say go for it, and don't let the people who say a market is saturated stop you. It's only saturated for them (that's just their excuse for why it didn't work for them) when in reality it's cause they don't know the basics

Hi Joe,

Maybe Jim Carey's message in this one minute video will help:

Try speaking to some business owners that are not web savvy, on a casual basis, and I think you'll see that you're really underestimating your own current abilities.

The trap so many fall into is not appreciating all the knowledge they've acquired throughout the years. The number of things they now take for granted as "duh... obviously" are really astounding revelations to the folks outside the industry.

With your experience level, I'll bet 100 to 1 odds that you know 100X more than the guy running the successful __________ business you frequent.

Now, how to tap into those markets can be a bit tricky as many of these folks have no idea of what they don't know so they don't know they don't know and often are not interested in finding out until someone shows them the light.

Joe, consistency is the key.

For example, you stated the number of words you reckoned you could write per day. Well Kim Roach (I think it was), put out a blog post recently that talked about the fact that Stephen King writes 500 words a day CONSISTENTLY Monday - Friday and that allows him to get 10k words a month down on paper and to be able to create a couple of best sellers a year.

If you know your subject and the subject/niche is monetizable, plus if you can express yourself well enough to create good content, you'll always have an audience to deliver value to.

Looks to me like you can string a sentence together so time to stop talking about it and start making it happen ey?

Well, you have a lot of experience. Certainly, it is enough to write several kindle e-books and put them on amazon. Have you given some thought to creating your very own you tube channel and posting some mini movies. They will increase your exposure. Also, these movies can generate money.

Joe,

I set up my business in 1990 as a business trainer, consultant and coach. I first trained as a coach in the mid 70s and as a trainer in the mid 80s.

I'm currently repositioning and rebuilding my business so that a lot more of my business is online. I'm like you - I've spent all of those years in face-to-face work with people and I'm becoming increasingly reluctant to do it. And I know for me that this is a surefire sign of burnout.

We are blessed that the internet gives us the opportunity to build up such a wide variety of businesses!

I wasted a lot of money on the things I was told I "had to have" - products on:

• Listbuilding and traffic generation
• Content creation including PLR and copywriting
• Affiliate building
• Business Building
• Market research
• Search Engine domination
• Product development
• Software development
• Site Building
• PPC, CPA etc.

Plus various coaching and mentoring programmes. The result? Around $70k of expenditure and around $1500 of income!

Then I decided to apply my offline principles online and it simplified things considerably. there are only 3 things you need to do to build a business:

1. Target the right people
2. Add value
3. Give clients the chance to get the results they're looking for.

It works whether your business is online or offline. For me, I've come to realise that I have a lot of tools and techniques I can teach anyone who wants to be a consultant, coach or mentor. My experience, skills and knowledge help me to add value and to help people get the results they are looking for.

So I'm putting together a range of WSOs and digital seminars to help those who want to help others.

I disagree strongly with kindsvater who wrote that passion is a red herring - it's the passion that gets you out of bed in the morning, it's the passion that helps you persevere when times are tough. It's the passion that helps you be congruent with your clients.

So, what are you passionate about?
Where does your target market hang out?
How can you add value vis your competition? It may be a product or a service.
What problems are your target market trying to solve and how can you help them?

I've earned a decent living in the internet marketing niche for 18 years now, yet didn't find it very gratifying until I shifted my focus to selling something that I knew everyone both wanted/need, and would actually use once they purchased it.

You see, I've looked at hundred of really great products that WOULD make a huge difference in people's lives if they would just use the product/training all the way through to getting the promised results. Most IM'ers buy a product and before they have even finished reading the instruction manual or going through the video training, they notice another shiny object... and go chasing after something that looks easier/faster/better.

Watching people that you honestly care about do that for years can be very heart breaking.

So, I personally stepped back and asked what do all businesses online and offline need, that they will happily pay for, and that they will actually USE.

Google showed me the answer. They sell traffic... picks and shovels to the gold miners. I do too now, whether that traffic is clicks or help building a list.

I think that that is a product that will always be in demand , and if you establish yourself as one of the good guys, you won't really have any competition...customers will seek you out and repeat customers will seek you out.

I also believe that you should go to where the money is. Offline, brick and mortar businesses budget for advertising and generating new lead... so that is also where I recommend someone with your level of experience/expertise focus.

Willie

I've spent thousands on dozens of IM products. The point is the MMO niche is filled with buyers who buy over and over. I do this because learning one tip is worth the price of most products.

Therefore there is plenty of room for more quality products and info. The key is that the info be based on real results and experience... unless of course you go into software development.

What business model earned you the most money? Teach that because you have real results to teach.