A Message To Warrior Forum Members

10 years ago

Good point.

Because of the importance of other conversations in the outer regions, I almost exclusively use the New Posts option in the middle of the top menu bar so that I can scan all the forums with just one click.

Mark

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JensSteyaert

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Good point.

Because of the importance of other conversations in the outer regions, I almost exclusively use the New Posts option in the middle of the top menu bar so that I can scan all the forums with just one click.

Mark

Yes this.

It would definately help and reduce the work of mods for replcing threads which belong in other sections.

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isaacsmithjones

10 years ago

I agree... I spend my time in the Offline forum, and sometimes, when I come here to the main forum, it feels like I'm on a different planet.

It's good to explore the different sections of the forum to nurture different parts of your mind - and your business.

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Steve B

10 years ago

Mark,

You certainly make a good point . . . in fact, all the other sections of the WF could stand greater participation.

I can't say that I'm surprised, however, that most of the action is in the main forum. It seems like the majority of the questions being asked are coming from people new to Internet Marketing.

If I were new, I would go to the Main Forum simply because I'm not yet ready for Copywriting, or the other sub forum topics. I would want the "big picture" and the direction showing me how to get started.

I just examined the threads on the first page of the main discussion forum. 41 of the 55 threads on page 1 were begun by members with less than 25 posts. While that's very unscientific, I admit, it suggests to me that the main forum is getting most of its threads from members who are just beginning - who may not be ready for specific sub forums.

So while I agree with what you're saying, I don't see things changing much in the near future. Unless, for instance, the powers that be started a "Start Here" forum that was specifically geared to taking this "Where do I begin?" topic mostly away from the main forum.

Thanks for the thread,

Steve

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Mark Pescetti

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve B

So while I agree with what you're saying, I don't see things changing much in the near future. Unless, for instance, the powers that be started a "Start Here" forum that was specifically geared to taking this "Where do I begin?" topic mostly away from the main forum.

If I had any kind of agenda, this is it.

I believe the new owners here should show and tell newbies how to use this forum - even have Doodle Videos that explain what each section of the forum is, what they can accomplish and how to get the most out of them.

You know...

Sell the benefits for using the WHOLE Warrior Forum. How amazing would that be?

How fantastic would it be for newbies - IF they understand what copy IS, why they need to learn and how to practice it right here on the forum.

Same with mindset.

Same with every sub-forum.

This place is valuable. No doubt.

But if the Freelancer owners want to play a bigger game, they can. The value of this place for members can raise dramatically with their leadership and guidance.

And their profits can skyrocket. More value = more money. (Because more empowered entrepreneurs means increased advertising.)

Thanks Steve.

Mark

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sbucciarel Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti

Same with mindset.

Mark

I agree about the CW forum but the Mindset forum really creeps me out. lol.
Don't want anything to do with it.

But I do lurk occasionally in the CW forum. Don't feel comfortable posting there though. I'm not a copywriter and it feels like a Copywriter club in there.
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UnkwnUsr

10 years ago

Not to ruffle any feathers but the copy writing forum seems to always be very self promotional. All the threads seem to be making the same point. That point being that us "average Joes" need to hire a "really smart copy writer" for our next project or it will be an epic fail.

Mind Warriors is nice but there are only so many LOA threads you can read before it gets redundant. I normally just hit the new post button and see what looks interesting.

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Mark Pescetti

10 years ago

Originally Posted by UnkwnUsr

Not to ruffle any feathers but the copy writing forum seems to always be very self promotional. All the threads seem to be making the same point. That point being that us "average Joes" need to hire a "really smart copy writer" for our next project or it will be an epic fail.

Mind Warriors is nice but there are only so many LOA threads you can read before it gets redundant. I normally just hit the new post button and see what looks interesting.

Ruffle away brah.

I agree, The Copywriting Forum IS self-promotional. I've been guilty of that myself.

But that doesn't discount how important it IS to your marketing career.

Again, personally speaking...

I've made money because of my participation in The CW Forum. Not by getting clients, but learning things that produced conversions for myself... and clients.

I know VERY little about actual marketing. I've never seen the inside of the Facebook Custom Audience Dashboard. And yet... I continue to make more and more money every single month - just because of writing effective copy.

I KNOW if more people here brought themselves, their personalities, their passion and vigor... their questions to The CW Forum, it would change the environment dramatically.

Honestly. I'm bored with it. Same with The Mindset Forum.

I agree, there's only so many LOA threads you can read. I don't even believe in Law of Attraction. So I find it very newbie oriented. But that can change too. Again, if you bring YOU to these forums... the bar will raise and more people will gain invaluable insights.

Mark

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UnkwnUsr

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti

Ruffle away brah.

I agree, The Copywriting Forum IS self-promotional. I've been guilty of that myself.

But that doesn't discount how important it IS to your marketing career.

Again, personally speaking...

I've made money because of my participation in The CW Forum. Not by getting clients, but learning things that produced conversions for myself... and clients.

I know VERY little about actual marketing. I've never seen the inside of the Facebook Custom Audience Dashboard. And yet... I continue to make more and more money every single month - just because of writing effective copy.

I KNOW if more people here brought themselves, their personalities, their passion and vigor... their questions to The CW Forum, it would change the environment dramatically.

Honestly. I'm bored with it. Same with The Mindset Forum.

I agree, there's only so many LOA threads you can read. I don't even believe in Law of Attraction. So I find it very newbie oriented. But that can change too. Again, if you bring YOU to these forums... the bar will raise and more people will gain invaluable insights.

Mark

Good point we can always add our own flavor to these sub-forums even if they may feel more like a club house for certain members right now. I'm not much of a thread starter though. I'll start a thread and it'll be like one of those old west ghost towns with the tumble weed rolling by.

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Mark Pescetti

10 years ago

Originally Posted by UnkwnUsr

Good point we can always add our own flavor to these sub-forums even if they may feel more like a club house for certain members right now. I'm not much of a thread starter though. I'll start a thread and it'll be like one of those old west ghost towns with the tumble weed rolling by.

You're right. You're SO right. The CW Forum definitely has that clique, clubhouse feel.

But I know you've gotta have questions. I KNOW you've got stuff to add to conversations (in existing threads.)

You're participation is so, so, so key man. I can't stress that enough.

Who cares if some threads bomb? Who cares?!?! Some will. Some won't.

But if just 5% of the people who regularly post here in the main section head over to The CW Forum, there will be dramatic changes for both The Warrior Forum... and everyone who participates... and everyone lurks...

Mark

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Steven Wagenheim

10 years ago

You know, I learned all the basics of copywriting. I studied sales pages, I got the "form" down.

But all of that will only take you so far. To be a truly exceptional copywriter, you need talent. Real talent. And that kind of talent can't be taught. Not everybody can be a gifted wordsmith. I'm sure as hell not. My copy does okay, but it doesn't break any records. And it's not going to because I can't write like the top copywriters. I don't have their vocabulary. I'm very plain spoken. I don't use the slick lingo that you find on the best sales pages. My adjectives are simple, not flashy.

So yeah, while I agree that marketers should at least learn the basics of copywriting, unless they can really develop their talent, they're only going to have so-so results with their sales letters.

That's why the top copywriters charge an arm and a leg. Not because they know AIDA but because they know how to write.

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Mark Pescetti

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

You know, I learned all the basics of copywriting. I studied sales pages, I got the "form" down.

But all of that will only take you so far. To be a truly exceptional copywriter, you need talent. Real talent. And that kind of talent can't be taught. Not everybody can be a gifted wordsmith. I'm sure as hell not. My copy does okay, but it doesn't break any records. And it's not going to because I can't write like the top copywriters. I don't have their vocabulary. I'm very plain spoken. I don't use the slick lingo that you find on the best sales pages. My adjectives are simple, not flashy.

So yeah, while I agree that marketers should at least learn the basics of copywriting, unless they can really develop their talent, they're only going to have so-so results with their sales letters.

That's why the top copywriters charge an arm and a leg. Not because they know AIDA but because they know how to write.

I bought Traffic Genesis to learn about Facebook advertising.

I'm likely never going to be as good as the people who teach this stuff.

But just knowing and understanding at least the basics, I can communicate what I want... and know what's possible.

Same goes for copy.

Everyone in marketing should know how to write it. That doesn't mean everyone needs to write their own copy, but getting decently good at it will help marketers know what they're looking at - when outsourcing is needed.

My best clients know how to critique my work. My worst clients don't.

Just saying.

mark

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angiecolee

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti

You're right. You're SO right. The CW Forum definitely has that clique, clubhouse feel.

But I know you've gotta have questions. I KNOW you've got stuff to add to conversations (in existing threads.)

You're participation is so, so, so key man. I can't stress that enough.

Who cares if some threads bomb? Who cares?!?! Some will. Some won't.

But if just 5% of the people who regularly post here in the main section head over to The CW Forum, there will be dramatic changes for both The Warrior Forum... and everyone who participates... and everyone lurks...

Mark

Speaking as a so-called copywriting forum clique member...

I came in as a newbie once. Others also come in as newbies.

Breaking into the clubhouse...it CAN be done! And by CHICKS, no less! *gasp*

I think the main problem with the CW forum is that no one wants to be told to kill their babies, to borrow a term from my screenwriting professor. Your heart's in this. You love your product and every time someone tells you to take an axe to your little baby, it feels like murder.

But here's the thing - the CW forum teaches people what most good writers already know - to remove yourself from the equation.

You only get stronger when you let go of your limited knowledge and allow others to help you break it down and make it better.

It's always going to feel like a personal attack when someone tells you to set fire to all your hard work. It's always going to feel like the go-to advice is to hire a copywriter - this holds doubly true if you're just not GETTING the advice being given. In that case, why not hire someone and spare yourself the agony of getting shredded again and again?

But I digress...

You want some interesting discussions? Jump into the CW forum.

Even girls can survive it, promise.

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Isaiah Jackson

10 years ago

I spend the bulk of my time in the Mindset Forum, simply because I know how powerful having the right mindset for business can actually do for our business.

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Brent Stangel

10 years ago

I believe the new owners here should show and tell newbies how to use this forum - even have Doodle Videos that explain what each section of the forum is, what they can accomplish and how to get the most out of them.

I don't think it would make any difference. Most can't even be bothered to read the forum rules.

I just examined the threads on the first page of the main discussion forum. 41 of the 55 threads on page 1 were begun by members with less than 25 posts. While that's very unscientific, I admit, it suggests to me that the main forum is getting most of its threads from members who are just beginning - who may not be ready for specific sub forums.

Also since FL took over, the number of complete newbies has increased, while more established members who used to post regularly have decreased. There is also a bunch of members with old start dates and low post counts who seem to think now is the time...again.

Newbies are looking for general answers. The majority of members with something to sell are looking for newbies. The main forum is where they meet.

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Mark Pescetti

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I agree about the CW forum but the Mindset forum really creeps me out. lol.
Don't want anything to do with it.

But I do lurk occasionally in the CW forum. Don't feel comfortable posting there though. I'm not a copywriter and it feels like a Copywriter club in there.

A lot of what's posted in the Mindset Forum is really bad. A few gems. Some people (myself included) can get too woo woo.

But there's a very practical side to mindset and overall attitude that is important for every marketer to get.

With some rebranding, that forum could be awesome.

I love what you say over in the CW forum. Spend more time there. Help eliminate the club atmosphere and make it the community it should be.

Originally Posted by Brent Stangel

I don't think it would make any difference. Most can't even be bothered to read the forum rules.

I look at each sub-forum as a product and individual brand... within larger branding.

If the peeps at Freelancer took the time to rebrand the smaller sub-forums and demonstrated good copy and marketing with some kick butt Doodle Vids, it'll capture more people's attention.

CM Punk once said to Vince McMahon (the man behind of WWE) that he's a millionaire who should be a billionaire.

This site, with the right re-positioning for its sub-forums could help way more people.

Either way...

The more newbs coming here... the bigger the need for some hand-holding, guidance and leadership.

Besides...

Too much money is being left on the table IMO.

These sub-forums are helping thousands - when they could be affecting millions.

Mark

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Highway55

10 years ago

Mark, those are great points. Positioning has a lot to do with it. The main forum is above the fold - along with the WSO forum (on my browser anyway) so that might have something to do with it.

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truefocusgroup

10 years ago

I'm brand new here so I am just getting my feet wet. Having a little trouble navigating the site and can't seem to find exactly where the link is to post a NEW thread. I've looked on all the pages and can't seem to find it. Any advice would be helpful

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timpears

10 years ago

I love checking out the other parts of the forum. There are two main parts I go to, but have found lots of interesting and valuable information in other forums, invcluding the cw forum.

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kindsvater 10 years ago
Mark,

Funny you should mention the copywriting and mindset subforums together. A year before you joined the forum there was a big copywriting contest and it meant a lot to Allen. A few of your colleagues declined to participate and admitted it was because they were afraid of publicly losing.
- No guts no glory.
- No try means no winnings.
- No showing off your copywriting skills means no customers.
When your pansy friends get a strong enough mindset to crawl out and join us Warriors in the main forum let us know! LOL

Profitably Yours,

Brian
(The winner of more forum copywriting contests than those inhabiting the copywriting subforum)

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- Paul Myers 10 years ago
  
  Not to ruffle any feathers but the copy writing forum seems to always be very self promotional.
  
  This is part of the business. While it doesn't affect everyone in it, there's a tendency among copywriters to have very strong egos and very strong opinions. It has a lot to do with the thought process and mental organization skills required for the profession.
  
  Promotion is all they do, so some level of that is inevitable. They're also usually excellent debaters, and think that winning an argument proves they're right. (It doesn't, but don't tell them that. )
  
  Nature of the beast. When you add in the very public challenges that go with open debates with other pros in your field, it takes a certain type of person to make "the club."
  
  That's why, with the exception of really nasty personal attacks, the general mods have traditionally left that section alone. Brian (the mod there) is a copywriter, and he knows not to take too much of the spice out of the recipe.
  
  There are "clubs" like that in a number of sections here. It's mostly a matter of people protecting the groups they've helped form. Standard social interaction stuff. How they work depends on the nature of the business. The SEO section tends toward more confrontational tones because it can be so vague for most people, and it's often a zero-sum game.
  
  The offline and mobile marketing sections have their fights, but they tend to be much more helpful, because the geographical overlap doesn't create as much direct competition. Sharing what works really is a win-win there.
  
  Different communities. This forum isn't one single entity, and hasn't been for a very long time.
  
  Paul
  
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Ravikanth

10 years ago

A simple change can go a long way in addressing this problem is the following:
When a user creates a new thread remind the user of all the different sections in the forum with a drop down. This will make the user consciously choose the right subsection of the forum.

You can find a similar process used in englishforums.com.

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rlopez88

10 years ago

Well its because the views are always higher so the new people think its all about that section. There's so many questions in this section that it should just be called the ''Q/A'' section lol.

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MarketingBees

10 years ago

When I first joined the WF I assumed EVERY post was put here unless you were selling something then it was the WSO and of course if you paid then the War Room...

It wasn't until recently I've started to actually have a little look in the other forum areas but unfortunately, like you said, they're lacking people.

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by MarketingBees

When I first joined the WF I assumed EVERY post was put here unless you were selling something then it was the WSO and of course if you paid then the War Room...

It wasn't until recently I've started to actually have a little look in the other forum areas but unfortunately, like you said, they're lacking people.

It might seem like they're lacking people, but they are a lot more targeted and there are resident experts in each of them. Some of the conversations are a lot more informative than some of the ones on Main.

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MNord 10 years ago

I enjoy the CW forum and have posted there a couple of times. Mostly I lurk. I do understand the complaints about the "club" environment and the often sharp elbows that copywriters have.

Direct response copywriters are sort of like boxers or trial lawyers. Each time they do their thing, they either "win" or "lose" (sometimes spectacularly) and generally have nothing to hide behind. When you deal in clear-cut success and failure, it can tend to make you direct to the point of bluntness. And it can reduce your tolerance for things experience has taught you are wrong.

I think once you understand the "type" you are dealing with, it's easier to shrug off any rough treatment and focus on the value they provide. Studying great copywriters has been a big reason I've been successful in my career. I'd say to Warriors: take advantage of the resource you have over in the CW forum.
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osamaye360

10 years ago

Thanks a lot Mark. True post. i usually visit the Mindset Forum but rarely visit the CW forum. will start visiting as i need to know basic of copywriting.

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wordwizard

10 years ago

Thanks for this post, Mark! I'm in the copywriting forum quite a bit, but I haven't really checked out the mindset forum. Will do so today!

Originally Posted by truefocusgroup

I'm brand new here so I am just getting my feet wet. Having a little trouble navigating the site and can't seem to find exactly where the link is to post a NEW thread. I've looked on all the pages and can't seem to find it. Any advice would be helpful

The link for posting new threads will magically appear at the top left when you're in the "thread listing" view of any of the forums. It says "New Thread" and is right above "Threads in Forum: ..."