How do you feel about WSOs that are over 100 pages long?

33 replies
I read a lot of posts in the forum and now and then I come across somebody who is balking at buying some product because "it's 75 pages long" or "it's 80 pages long".

So, assuming something is a good WSO, with a lot of information, would you be turned off by it if it was over 100 pages?? Any feedback appreciated, thanks.
#100 #100 pages #feel #length or article #long #pages #wsos
  • Profile picture of the author PTR
    There are a number of contradictory issues in play here:
    • Honest and honourable WSO creators feel the need to give value for money so they want to make the WSO bigger to provide that value.
    • Unscrupulous WSO creators want to make the buyer feel that they are getting value by offering WSOs with huge numbers of pages.
    • Some people want instant success these days and the horror of having to read through 100 pages of information to get that instant fix just doesn't float their boat.
    • Some people want blow by blow, screenshot by screenshot details of how to achieve the goal.
    So, what do you do?

    Personally, I'd look a little deeper to see what the WSO is all about. With many WSOs that say they are 50/60/100 pages long you'll find that 10 of those pages simply have the chapter heading on them and other pages have one or two paragraphs in over-large fonts; so, by the time you've taken out all the 'packaging' you're down to 20 pages anyway! My usual expectation is that the true page count will be about 50% of the advertised number.

    Second, I look at the advertised content/subject. Most WSOs are a variation on a theme so unless the promoter is genuinely coming at something from a truly new and unique angle then I wouldn't expect it to need more than about 20 pages (or 40 advertised 'pages').

    Look at who is promoting the WSO, look at and their background and experience. If its a name that is well known and is respected then I'd expect the marketing blurb to be more accurate (and the content more valuable) as they have a reputation to protect.

    Finally, if I was promoting a WSO and it did genuinely have to be sizeable to fit everything in then I'd consider splitting it up into smaller pieces.

    If I'm putting something major together I would expect it to be able to command a fairly high price. However, high prices can put people off so I'd split it up.

    That way I can reduce the price for the initial offering which gives people the option to view the concept of the work and see for themselves some of the content. If I've done that properly they will then see the overall value and go ahead and buy the follow on elements.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
    Different people with different point of view.

    Some people believe WSO with lots of pages is a sign of quality product, sometimes it is and sometimes it's not but the truth is, that a very wrong approach.

    The length is purely determined by the niche or topic.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rainee
    Originally Posted by Jeff Gilbert View Post

    I read a lot of posts in the forum and now and then I come across somebody who is balking at buying some product because "it's 75 pages long" or "it's 80 pages long".

    So, assuming something is a good WSO, with a lot of information, would you be turned off by it if it was over 100 pages?? Any feedback appreciated, thanks.
    A couple of things may have happened in this situation.

    Either...

    The WSO thread selling the 75 page product didn't do a good job of selling the value of reading the 75 pages, or...

    The person complaining equates value to the medium of the product delivery, instead of the actual context of the product.

    Sad situation, either way.

    Rainee
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve B
      Just like the age old advice about a woman's dress . . .

      It should be long enough to cover the subject and short enough to be interesting.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
        Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

        Just like the age old advice about a woman's dress . . .

        It should be long enough to cover the subject and short enough to be interesting.

        . . . and split into sections to give a good overall view.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
        Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

        Just like the age old advice about a woman's dress . . .

        It should be long enough to cover the subject and short enough to be interesting.

        Steve
        This.

        Personally, I've gotten to the point where I get information overload really fast these days. When I'm trying to learn something new it needs to be in small, actionable steps that are easy to digest. If not, I tend to avoid it because it seems so overwhelming.

        Also, it's a proven fact that the average person only absorbs parts of the information each time they read something new. Most people will have to read through a report, ebook, etc (or watch a video) at least 2-3 times before they absorb the information. I can't imagine reading a longer book more than 1-2 times.

        Of course, some areas of the product may not be easy to understand. I can remember more than once when I didn't understand something, couldn't get clarification and ended up either refunding or not taking action.

        There are many courses now that are delivered in smaller lessons that are sent out weekly so that people don't become overwhelmed.

        Everyone has their preference. I happen to prefer smaller bits of information at a time. One problem, one solution type of books.

        Joe
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      • Profile picture of the author Paleochora
        Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

        Just like the age old advice about a woman's dress . . .

        It should be long enough to cover the subject and short enough to be interesting.

        Steve
        Very true Steve.

        Reminds me of another old adage...

        It doesn't matter how long it is - it's what you do with it that counts.

        Whether there are 10 pages or 100 it is worthless unless the information is actually used.
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  • Originally Posted by Jeff Gilbert View Post

    would you be turned off by it if it was over 100 pages??
    Yes, If the first 50 pages sound like:

    "Let me tell you everything about me, my family, my dog, my car, my house, what I had for breakfast, and here's a detailed story about how I struggled for years before I became the awesomeness that I am today. Also check out my other products here, here, and here, and be sure to sign up to my....."

    Yawn...

    On the other hand, I have also purchased lengthy quality books on marketing including a 354 page book with solid information written by my friend Ewen Chia, titled: "How I Made My First Million on the Internet and How You Can Too!"

    I think that most books that are professionally published and properly edited for fluff, will in most cases contain useful to the point information back to back, no matter how many pages long.

    With WSO's however, it's pretty much up to the author to decide whether to fluff or not to fluff.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Tandan
    If the content's legit and not a bunch of filler, page length means nothing whether it's 10 pages or 200. Case in point - quite recently an 81 page product was made WSO of the day. No fluff.

    Depends a bit on the target market too, I suppose. People seeking a shiny button that will give them an answer 'yesterday' are more keen to digest shorter products, in my opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Gilbert
    Hi guys, thanks for your replies. For the case in question, there is no fluff about bummer life story, also it's in 12 point single space, so it's not like some 40 page books I've seen here which are really a 3,500 word article blown up into a 50 page book using 18 point font and double space, and refer to this as "nouveau publishing". (One person actually did this, not using that term but that this was the new trend.)

    Also, how do you feel about if you're reading a book, they start to say, in order to this to happen, you have to do this. Oh, by the way here's a link on how to do this. I mean they way I see it, if I have to go to a link on how to do this, why should I buy your book??? Once again, thanks for your replies.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    The length doesn't bother me as long as it's a continuous flow of useful information.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lurk
    what is a Bummers life story?
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  • Profile picture of the author jamescanz
    I prefer shorter, and straight to the point.

    However, if I purchased an ebook that was 100 pages long...

    It wouldn't bother me
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  • Profile picture of the author Highway55
    It all depends...

    If you give me what you're offering, and all pages contain information to that effect - I'm game. Anything outside of that, I'll be turned off, and usually won't buy from that person again.

    The biggest risk is future business imo. Then again, that's always the risk when you release a product - good or bad - how does it reflect on you and your ability to teach?
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Not at all turned off by it. I want it to be as many pages as it takes to provide the information promised.
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  • Profile picture of the author multimastery
    I don't care if it's 1-page cliff notes, as long as it works!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Gilbert
    I see that one person would prefer would prefer small bite size, but for the most part, most don't mind AS long as it has actionable information throughout. Thanks guys I appreciate the feedback.
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  • Profile picture of the author XponentSYS
    However long it needs to be to get whatever the point a cross is fine with me. It could be 10 pages or 100 pages..... I don't care.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
    Fluff and Puff, it does seem to be the going thing these days, I purchase a lot of WSO products, sometimes its about getting a product that I might have need for in another project other times its about saving time and money.

    As an example, I purchased a product (about a year ago) that promoted a method of creating kindle books out of images, (seemed something that would fit in well)

    What I found though was a lot of Huff and Puff and not much else, in fact they never really even covered the subject matter at all.

    (The product was cheap, in more than one way)

    Turned out they were only interested in selling you on an upgrade plus an upgrade after that I think the total cost for the entire program was nearly $2500.00

    (But they lost me at $7.00)

    Then they proceeded to bombard me with Seminar emails, but you see they did not provide any real value in the initial product, not even the value of $7.00

    If the content is good, then it does not matter how much material is present as long as it creates the right kind of environment to get the customer moving in the right direction.

    People all learn differently some by visual cues, others by reading and even audio only.

    If I have to read through 100 pages of information it had better be good material otherwise I will feel like the WSO seller wasted my time.

    I hate to waste time and that is a big problem that so far many of the big name marketers have not really figured out.

    (the human mind is capable of sustaining long form content however most of the time we tend to be conditioned to consume content in smaller chunks.)

    I create Videos and I have noticed that longer videos, tend to get fewer views, while shorter videos tend to get more views.

    This might be due to the fact that we live in a world where every day is filled to capacity with activities often so much that at the end of the day we find ourselves rushing around trying to get that last thing done and laying in bed at night thinking about all the things that are yet to be done.

    All in all I would rather have a fantastic snack than a meal that makes me go to sleep...
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff Gilbert
      Thanks Tim for your thoughtful answer. I've seen those kinds of WSO's. I've reviewed quite a bit of WSO's here and from time to time I've recommended to the creator to not release the WSO, because there is nothing to it, or it's too confusing and needs revision. I don't know if they ever listened to me.

      But yeah, I love those guys too, that they'll sell you a $7 product to follow with a $2,500 oto. Seriously, are these guys smoking crack??? If a person only buys a $7 product, the most they can upsell someone is for $47. Anything beyond that is ludicrous because it's not congruent with the original price. That's not to say that somewhere down the road they can TRY to sell you a large ticket item. But not right away. They lost you as a customer by selling you crap and trying to ensnare you with greed.

      Again, thanks everyone for your feedback and letting me know that over 100 pages is not a problem for everyone. Although in some cases some would like it further broken down.
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    • Profile picture of the author TelZilla
      Originally Posted by Tim Franklin View Post

      I create Videos and I have noticed that longer videos, tend to get fewer views, while shorter videos tend to get more views.
      I've seen the same thing in my testing. Not only do the shorter videos get more views, the conversion rates are better.

      This might be due to the fact that we live in a world where every day is filled to capacity with activities often so much that at the end of the day we find ourselves rushing around trying to get that last thing done and laying in bed at night thinking about all the things that are yet to be done.
      You've hit the problem right on the head. People are filling their lives and time with stuff. They have forgotten the #1 rule of life. You can't take it with you.

      They've got their priorities screwed all the hell up...
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    If I ask what time it is...

    Don't tell me how to build a watch.

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  • Profile picture of the author shaunchu
    Whatever length it is, so long as it serve its purpose as what it claimed to be, it is a good WSO. No point in driving a message across using 10 pages that can be achieved using 2 simple sentences.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Gilbert
    Thank you Sarevok, Paleochora and Shaunchu for your replies.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raelyn Tan
    I tend to think that more pages = more content = more value, especially if i bought the product. It's less likely that I'll find a paid product boring since I parted with my hard earned money to read it

    It's different for a free WSO though. I view the information as more "cheap" and will likely just take a quick scroll through. If i don't see something interesting immediately, I hit the "x" button and possibly unsubscribe from the person's list.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff Gilbert
      Thanks Raely. yes, that is my thinking too. The way i see it, if a person creates a WSO over 100 pages of real information, where it's really a course in a book format, it tends to have more value.

      Now this is as long as the course was really written well, with the design in mind of teaching a whole concept. There is this whole mentality out there, which is ok, that you can write something about 1 problem, 1 solution, and i get that totally as long as the WSO is presented that way.

      I have a problem when somebody professes to teach a whole conept and then the WSO turns out to be a 1 problem 1 solution deal ignoring the rest of the process and never going beyond the one point.
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  • Profile picture of the author djones20
    A good WSO is a good WSO if it is more than 100 pages or not. It is all about quality and value. Reading less than 100 pages is easier though and there are lots of people that do not want to have to read too much. So you will sell more if it is shorter.
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  • Profile picture of the author twranks
    Originally Posted by Jeff Gilbert View Post


    So, assuming something is a good WSO, with a lot of information, would you be turned off by it if it was over 100 pages??
    Definitely not! If you went to college, you read a hundred pages of content easily... and that doesn't prepare you for real life in any way. So no; I won't be deterred by a 100 page ebook as long as its not filled with OTOs and worthless information.
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  • I think it's fine as long as the content is good and there is a need for that much info in the niche. I wouldn't mind a wso that's over 100 pages as long as the info is good!
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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Gunn
    When the soap runs out, quit rubbing!! When there is nothing left to say, stop talking.

    The number of pages really doesn't matter to me, but if the material is Ho Hum stuff, I won't last 100 pages. If it's great content, 100 pages will fly by, no prob!
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  • Profile picture of the author Edwin Torres
    Its a question of Quality vs Quantity. The longer something is, doesn't mean its more valuable. I've gone through WSOs with so much fluff its hilarious. And I've gone through other WSOs who were short and to the point and the information was great.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      When I used to be in the MMO niche and sold WSOs, my products were always very to the point. I'd start with step 1 and finish with step, whatever. When I was done I was done. If it was 50 pages, it was 50 pages. If it was 150 pages, it was 150 pages.

      But I never made a mention of how many pages were in the product.

      Personally, I am a little leery of somebody who has to mention the page count in his WSO. Shouldn't you be selling me on the content and NOT on how much you can write?

      Whatever product your'e going to create, page count shouldn't be an issue. If somebody refunds because it's too short or too long, even if the info in it is exactly what they need to accomplish the task at hand, then IMO, there is something wrong with the buyer.

      Yes, some people want a quick fix. They want to read one paragraph and be able to make a million dollars from it. These people can't be helped and they shouldn't be your target market or your concern.

      Create a quality product, regardless of the number of pages, and target it towards people who recognize and want a quality product.

      No matter how many pages it may be.
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