None natives making fake native Freelance profiles

19 replies
I recently went to hire some people, they were from the US/UK, but there English was pretty bad and the samples I requested didn't make much sense.

I get the feeling that a lot of none native people from Asia make western profiles to get more jobs?

Is this true, anyone else notice this?
#fake #freelance #making #native #natives #profiles
  • Profile picture of the author Mahegoat
    This is going to be my post so forgive me if I am brunt.

    Prospective employers have this mistaken notion that only native residents of the United States, United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand and so who have good command of the English language.

    If then I am a prospective employee for such an employer, I would make any effort to prove to you, falsely or not, that I am a "Native".

    A good command of the English language can be found anywhere on planet earth. Ponder that.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by Mahegoat View Post

      If then I am a prospective employee for such an employer, I would make any effort to prove to you, falsely or not, that I am a "Native".

      A good command of the English language can be found anywhere on planet earth. Ponder that.

      So lying to get the job is perfectly acceptable?

      Maybe a command of the English language has nothing to do with why the employer is looking for someone from a specific country or region.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Mahegoat View Post

      A good command of the English language can be found anywhere on planet earth. Ponder that.
      While that may be true for some, certainly not for all. Some of the worst garbage ever written for money was sent to me by offshore providers and that means off of the shores I live on ... the US.

      ...and if I want to hire a US provider, that is my choice.

      Lying about where they live is rampant on the freelance sites and some of the proposals and samples coming from the allegedly US providers is laughable, both in writing and graphics jobs. There are often good reasons for a buyer wanting to hire a US provider if their target market is in the US, just as there might be good reasons to hire people from other countries given the same criteria.

      Ponder that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by harvie316 View Post

    I get the feeling that a lot of none native people from Asia make western profiles to get more jobs?
    You mean "non-native"? They're native to their own countries, anyway - but weren't we all?

    I'm sure you're right. There are certainly plenty of people registering in the Warrior Forum and giving their location as "US" or various US states/cities, who have IP numbers in India, Bangladesh and so on.

    Perhaps it's understandable: I think there's still widespread prejudice, in Western countries, against employing Africans and Asians.

    There are, indeed, many better writers in far-flung corners of the world than some of the "natives" to the countries typically employing writers.

    Originally Posted by Mahegoat View Post

    This is going to be my post so forgive me if I am brunt.
    No problem: "brunt" and "blunt" are both easy to forgive (and sometimes to confuse).

    .
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  • Profile picture of the author Rbtmarshall
    Sometimes there are profiles on freelancing sites of an individual that are just leads to a company or outsourcer. Their goal is to make the sale, then source the work within their own 4th party

    $15 per hour for an English speaking US citizen isn't allot when it comes to our cost of living. Whereas $15 per hour in a country with a lower cost of living is enough to hire someone to do the work for $7\hr and keep $8\hr for themselves.
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  • Profile picture of the author tedsams
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      You don't have to use a freelance site - this is happening with increasing frequency here on this forum.

      Most commonly "adopted" addresses are in Australia and in the U.S. All you can do is try to vet the person with a small order.

      There are fine writers all over the world - but personally, I don't like to hire people who lie to me. If you lie about one thing, chances are you'll lie about another.

      Sometimes there are profiles on freelancing sites of an individual that are just leads to a company or outsourcer. Their goal is to make the sale, then source the work within their own 4th party
      Quite a bit of that on freelance sites - I've seen WSO's explaining how to do it ;-)

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
    Excuse my ignorance but because somebody lives in the US, UK, or Australia does not mean that they are native to that country and unless you somehow know that the are mis-representing their location, that doesn't mean that it's a fake profile.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim3
    [QUOTE=harvie316;9368618
    Is this true, anyone else notice this?[/QUOTE]


    Yes indeed, it's called bullsh*t and it's rife all over the world.


    Here's a quick test.
    Send them this sentence and ask them to properly punctuate it...

    That that is is that that is not is not is not that it it is
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Kids... it may be a fact that the people are NOT lying, and they actually live in the US UK? People from other regions of the world do move.
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      • Profile picture of the author @tjr
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        Kids... it may be a fact that the people are NOT lying, and they actually live in the US UK? People from other regions of the world do move.
        I'm still just trying to figure out who is being called a kid in this thread and why.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zanesta
    There are tons of writers on Freelance websites that pose themselves to have "years of writing experience" but their English just sounds gibberish.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ekushey
    I'm a freelancer myself and I avoid the so-called "employers" from India and Pakistan. But the problem occurs when they put USA or UK as their country, but I can easily understand that they are lying when they start the conversion with "Hi, how are you?" -- if this is not the case, then their broken English speaks it for them.

    Just a week ago this person "from" Australia offered me $5 for a task that I usually charge $75, and I was so disgusted and insulated that I instantly asked him if he's from India or not. I was close, he was actually from Pakistan.
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  • Profile picture of the author FreelanceScribe
    I entirely agree with the original point made by the OP which was that freelancers fake their location to imply language skills which people will otherwise suspect are absent. In essence, it simply demonstrates a lack of integrity.

    However, another issue has inevitably crept into this thread, an issue related to the term "native writer". The term is meaningless. The word "native" implies nothing more than that a person was born in a particular place or country and, by itself, it has nothing to do with competence. In fact, I would go as far as saying that the expression reeks of xenophobia and prejudice. There are only two issues involved in accessing the suitability of a freelance writer and they are: 1) competence, and 2) price. Regardless of origin, the writer has an obligation to demonstrate his or her writing competence before being accepted to provide a paid service. There is a much stronger correlation between "competence and price" than there is between "quality and birth place".

    There is also another issue associated with writing. Language skill does not by itself guarantee writing competence; it is merely a foundation on which to develop the craft of writing.

    Look no further than some of the U.S. based article directories who "only employ native writers" and see the utter rubbish they have the temerity to offer for sale. The same applies to a large number of eBooks written by "native writers". Incomplete, incoherent and populated with meaningless sentences and confusing instructions.

    One might also question whether people who only trust "native writers" also claim that only "native food" is eatable and only "native cars" are safe on their local roads?

    I am myself a living example of the issue associated with "native writers". My native language is a Scandinavian language, I am an Australian citizen, completed my post-graduate studies there and have lived there most of my life. I am a published author and have written for a multitude of clients but... horror or all horrors.. I now live in Asia and I am not a "native".
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by FreelanceScribe View Post

      I entirely agree with the original point made by the OP which was that freelancers fake their location to imply language skills which people will otherwise suspect are absent. In essence, it simply demonstrates a lack of integrity.

      However, another issue has inevitably crept into this thread, an issue related to the term "native writer". The term is meaningless. The word "native" implies nothing more than that a person was born in a particular place or country and, by itself, it has nothing to do with competence. In fact, I would go as far as saying that the expression reeks of xenophobia and prejudice. There are only two issues involved in accessing the suitability of a freelance writer and they are: 1) competence, and 2) price. Regardless of origin, the writer has an obligation to demonstrate his or her writing competence before being accepted to provide a paid service. There is a much stronger correlation between "competence and price" than there is between "quality and birth place".

      There is also another issue associated with writing. Language skill does not by itself guarantee writing competence; it is merely a foundation on which to develop the craft of writing.

      Look no further than some of the U.S. based article directories who "only employ native writers" and see the utter rubbish they have the temerity to offer for sale. The same applies to a large number of eBooks written by "native writers". Incomplete, incoherent and populated with meaningless sentences and confusing instructions.

      One might also question whether people who only trust "native writers" also claim that only "native food" is eatable and only "native cars" are safe on their local roads?

      I am myself a living example of the issue associated with "native writers". My native language is a Scandinavian language, I am an Australian citizen, completed my post-graduate studies there and have lived there most of my life. I am a published author and have written for a multitude of clients but... horror or all horrors.. I now live in Asia and I am not a "native".
      Well you can find utter rubbish on all article directories, whether they are US based or not. Some people write rubbish.

      As for your implication that there is prejudice creeping into this thread and that there are only two reasons to consider when hiring a writer, which are quality and price, you are incorrect. There are numerous other reasons, if you are actually writing articles about something other than teeth whiteners or detox cleansers.

      If you want quality pieces and maybe you want it written for a Southern US audience, I want a writer who intimately understands Southern culture in the US, as well as Southern language differences (Southern slang - and there is a lot of it), and who has perhaps even been to the South. By the same token, I may have a desire to appeal to Westerners. The article for the Southerners and the Westerners would likely not sound the same when written by a good writer who knows the difference between Southerners and Westerners, and who writes as if they are speaking to you, rather than by a writer who can write for Wikipedia.

      I want writing that is written as a conversation. Most of the junk that people push off as writing is nothing more than rewording stuff from a dictionary, or pushing a product such as body cleansers or teeth whiteners. If that's all you need, anyone who can write at all can do that. But if you happen to need a real piece written, and you want it to engage and grab your audience, it's good that the writer is intimately familiar with that audience.

      One might also question whether people who only trust "native writers" also claim that only "native food" is eatable and only "native cars" are safe on their local roads?
      Have you ever heard of loyalty? I, for one, am sick to death of our children and grandchildren being pounded to death by cheap offshore labor for jobs originating on our soil, so yes .... I will in as many cases as possible, attempt to hire from my own country.

      In addition, I will, whenever I can, buy "Made in the USA" products. I prefer to support the economy of the country I, and my family, are invested in rather than someone else's economy. As for food, I enjoy Italian food, Chinese food, Thai food, etc. but I eat primarily good ole' American style food and indulge in the others occasionally. It really isn't a matter of trusting the brand. It's a matter of supporting our own economy.
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        gentle snip....

        Have you ever heard of loyalty? I, for one, am sick to death of our children and grandchildren being pounded to death by cheap offshore labor for jobs originating on our soil, so yes .... I will in as many cases as possible, attempt to hire from my own country.

        In addition, I will, whenever I can, buy "Made in the USA" products. I prefer to support the economy of the country I, and my family, are invested in rather than someone else's economy. As for food, I enjoy Italian food, Chinese food, Thai food, etc. but I eat primarily good ole' American style food and indulge in the others occasionally. It really isn't a matter of trusting the brand. It's a matter of supporting our own economy.
        I agree whole-hardheartedly with this - I hire local as well and buy local as much as possible to support my economy here in Southern Ontario, Canada - I too enjoy a variety of ethnic foods and prefer a Mediterranean diet actually to a Canadian one - because some of our trademark foods in Canada are sinful artery cloggers ( think poutine ) lol but I will occasionally indulge and walk an extra 2-3 km to work it off.

        I like to actually meet the people I work with too and there are more than enough fine young minds in my immediate vicinity willing to work. So that is how I completely avoid the hassles of screening online fake profiles on freelance sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author NoMoreWords
    In the past I used to lie about my country too. I was 16 when I started freelance writing and I couldn't get many projects. So (on oDesk) having the same portfolio, same test results, same description, and only the country changed, I had way more job opportunities than I had before.

    However, I do believe that I am a great writer and have a strong command of the language. I've probably made $5-6k in my freelance career in total, without disappointing clients.
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  • Profile picture of the author koyaai
    Oh! This really gets on my nerves.

    1. Freelancers pretending to be from the US, UK, or any other place where they can be considered as "native" writers. Easy way to burn them is to ask for previous work or do a simple work-for-pay article.

    2. Clients from India/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Philippines (just using these countries as examples) pretending to be from US or other first world countries to get workers. They are the number one reason behind the "outsourception" that occurs. Basically, they get a job for a price and get other workers to do it for a much lower price. Easy way to detect this is to check their English (most of the time they really suck) or just to use your common sense ($2.5 for a 1000 word article?)

    I really don't mind people who choose to "love their own" although I abhor those who automatically consider non-native writers to be inferior to native writers. It's a matter of choice.

    PS: For me, a native writer is a person who speaks and writes a specific language as a "first language". I know a lot of native writer/speakers who are really bad with English the same way that I suck at speaking and writing in Tagalog (my native language). English is my second language but I can express myself better with english compared to my native language.
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  • Profile picture of the author JeanneLynn
    There is nothing I dislike more than reading an article that was written by someone who isn't a native English speaker. Last year, I hired over 50 different writers, the majority claiming to be in the US, and I received articles that were actually ridiculous. Gibberish garbage! I laughed when I read them.

    Some article buyers might not mind, but I do. People should be honest in their freelance profiles so no one has their time wasted. I only want to buy articles from US writers.
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    • There are many reasons (and prejudicial opinions may not be some of them) why a buyer wants to purchase content from writers based in specific countries, though there are also many reasons (and again, prejudicial ideologies may not be some of them) why some writers would want to decline offers sent by certain buyers, but:

      I can't think of any reasonable situation (for both parties) where a writer would, when bidding on project-based opportunities at freelancing sites, lie about the country where they currently live and work in, their native language and their race / ethnicity...

      As a freelancer from 2005 to 2006 =>> I politely declined projects where buyers explicitly stated that they needed writers based in specific countries like the US, EU, Canada, Australia and so on. Why?

      Aside from being based outside the countries that they mentioned (and also because I was almost always already booked for large content development projects, many of which resulted to long term corporate telecommuting subcontracts) =>> I assumed most of them wanted to integrate a personal tone and an informal style into their content. I don't want to write in this tone and style, since I'm more comfortable in writing formal academic content about certain subject areas where I have specialized expertise in, such as technology, science, business, economics, socio-politico topics and anthropological philosophy; and

      The writing tone / style that I want to use can be seen in most broadsheet news articles, hard copy encyclopedia entries, scientific journals, feature business magazine stories and so on, being a published author of academic papers in various US and EU-based academic groups that specialize in quantum physics, Artificial Intelligence technologies and robotics, post graduate mathematics, post graduate economics / socio-politico topics and anthropological philosophy...
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