The Mentoring "Issue"

Hi Alphy3000,

I don't think the senior Warriors and successful folks on this forum think the newbies have to give blood or stumble along blindly. Rather, I think the biggest problem is the way in which potential students ask for mentors.

First, there seems to be an entitlement mentality coming from some of these potential students. They want a mentor who'll drop everything and give them guidance... for free. And even aside from monetary compensation, some potential students don't want to give anything in return. (Nevermind that some of the potential mentors charge hundreds or even thousands of dollars for their time.)

Most of those with the entitlement mentality never even follow up. They read the forum threads and don't do anything with the advice. They buy products and don't apply it. They beg for mentors and then don't follow through.

(Note -- I am not saying all or even most people do this or have this mentality, but experienced folks can recognize those "entitlement mentality" people fairly fast, and they steer clear of offering them personal guidance.)


Secondly, there is a lot of mentoring and helping out going on behind the scenes.


Third, it takes the same amount of time to advise one person via a PM as it does to advise someone in a public thread. The difference is that the public thread can help dozens, hundreds or even thousands of other people, while the advice given in a PM just helps that one person. As such, plenty of forum folks see that sharing their expertise publicly is the BEST use of their time.


Those are just a few factors that help explain why different people get different results when they're looking for mentors here on the forum. There are other factors, but you get the idea.

Cheers,
Becky

Well, this forum is such a great place and you can find more info than you need actually to start. I agree that mentor is very useful and everyone should have one (I wish I had one) but still, come here, post your questions and you will get help, not from one person too..

BTW, maybe offering 5 percent from your income would work in attracting a mentor

I'm not convinced that it would be a good idea to be mentored by someone just because they responded to an anonymous thread asking for a mentor. Get to know people on the forum. Learn what facets of IM a warrior enjoys and is good at. Get a feel for communication styles and world-view(as it relates to business, at least).

Contact someone you respect with specific questions about something they know, and you may get a response. Act on that response and respect that persons time.

Maybe you'll get lucky.

Regards,
Kevin

The major benefit for having a mentor I would think - I never had one - is answerability.

If you are on your own working from home there is no one there making sure that things get done when they are supposed to be done.

If you have a mentor they expect objectives to be met.

A better way of doing it is something I have been considering setting up for some time, and that is a mastermind group.

Virtually all of the top IM'ers are members of at least one mastermind group, and Napoleon Hill in Think and Grow Rich lists it as the most important factor for success.

I think a lot of people who have "made" it in the IM world are very hands on and hard working. This is what happens - you start mentoring 5 people, 4 of them go MIA for weeks, one keeps working at it for a couple weeks, loses some money and quits. This doesn't quite encourage the "mentors" to keep trying - whats the point?

After all, answering 10 - 20 emails per day, even if they're simple questions, takes a lot of time. When your students disappear or give up, it can be very frustrating.

That is the reason a lot of pros only do 1-1 coaching or charge big amounts of money and coach small groups - at least this way you can expect the person you're coaching to commit to the course a little more than usual.

I agree that there is a big need in the industry for quality 1-1 help, especially with various technical bits and what not. It is also a huge responsibility, which is something a lot of wannabe coaches do not understand. Once you start coaching someone, you have made a commitment and cannot pull back half way through.

In the end, it's just not worth it. Unless you really enjoy mentoring others. I would rather spend that time with my girlfriend, friends or just jogging on the beach...

I've tried to help out several warriors who have approached me in the past.. with few exceptions, they wouldn't listen to the advice given and often would stubbornly dig their heels in (like insisting their problem was "not enough traffic", when they had a site that simply didn't convert). Too much desire to cut corners, too much aversion to both analytical thought as well as learning some marketing/sales fundementals (like reading Dan Kennedy's Ultimate Sales Letter).

This doesn't apply to everyone of course, but it has been my experience the majority of the time

You need to stop thinking, "What's in it for me?" and start wondering, "What's in it for them?"

Figure that second one out and you won't need a mentor.

Of those who are truly skilled, you can hire them but it will cost you. Most of the "gurus" charge hundreds per hour and it's definitely worth it if you are in a position to take advantage of it.

HOWEVER, I place most of the blame on the "students" who want champagne mentoring at Big Mac prices or in many cases, no price at all. Some of them even get confrontational with a "prove it" attitude.

Most successful people don't feel any sort of obligation to prove anything, they are quite content to keep making money without your approval.

If you are truly looking for a mentor, get a clear idea of exactly WHAT you need help with and then seek out experts in that area.

"Quick" is a relative term and if it's worth answering, then it's worth answering fully.

There are plenty of great products on internet marketing that will give you all the quick answers and outlines you need.

Set out on your course and when you hit a real stumbling block you can seek out a mentor who specializes in that area.

There is mentoring going on in every single post here.

since it is a forum, the community is the mentor.
When a newbie comes asking for help, there are plenty
of people who show up with great inputs and insights.

However, it is up to the newbie to get the mentor and not the
other way around.

Igor

People who make good mentors tend to have three things in common.

1. They are highly successful.
2. They understand what they do well enough to teach.
3. They truly love helping people by teaching them.

When you put these three things together, these people want to help as many people as possible as quickly as possible.

Mentoring one person is the single least efficient way to do that.

There has to be a value proposition in it for the mentor. Find the value proposition (val prop), and your chances of getting a mentor go way up.

I mentored NETWORK marketers 30 years ago. Man, what a pain in the butt! They were inconsistent, and unreliable. They'd say one thing, do another. They wouldn't show up. They wouldn't follow up. Heck, most of them would just blow away in the wind (largely because of the METHODS in use at the time, sadly)

I then got a taste of mentoring INTERNET MARKETERS. Ouch! Mostly the same thing - very easier to start, and very very hard to finish. Internet Marketers are more committed (perhaps do to the amount of money they have tied up in "the cause"), but equally adept at the same old human frailties and inconsistencies - and they too, largely wander off.

Now, I mentor exclusively DIRECT NETWORKERS (defined as those who apply Internet Marketing tactics and strategies to Network marketing monetization models) - wow! what a difference. Thanks perhaps solely to the power of the DN biz model, students are easier to start, even easier to get "to black" and stay way way longer and work harder than any cross-section of student I've ever coached or mentored. Never in my marketing/coaching life have I had this much fun mentoring!

And my favorite part? I don't have to charge a THING (thanks to the usual "incestuous" relationship that exists within the Professional Direct Networking business arena) hehe - if more mentors were compensated NOT based on their fee structure but based on the SIZE and VOLUME of the organization that develops from teaching a student.....well, it's just so much more powerful a model, is all I can say.

If I were offering mentor services, I would not be jumping on these requests for mentors either.

Unfortunately, it's not that most mentors don't want to mentor newbies, it's that most looking for a mentor are still of the mentality that it should cost them next to nothing to take the the skills from an expert who spent thousands, or tens of thousands of dollars themselves to get where they are.

So, until you are sure the person has a REAL business mentality - ie., that business and quality advices isn't free - then you really don't want to deal with it. It is a waste of time

Nothing personal about this. It is just a fact. Napoleon Hill covered it well almost 80 years ago. No matter how hard you try to change things, only 2% - in the end - ever have everything it takes to see a business through to success.

Starting off with the newbie, "I can do this for free" mentality is a non-starter. Mentoring anyone won't work until the person has eliminated this notion from their mind.

Wayne Sharer

Hey Alphy3000,



Okay, I am correcting you. That thought and expression is as untrue as you can get!

I've been on this forum for awhile now and have never seen this mentality. In fact, I've witnessed just the opposite of it. The people here will bust a gut to help newbies or anyone else.

Yes, there are some that will charge for their services, but who can blame them. Who wouldn't expect that given the amount of time and experience it took them to gain the knowledge and success they share?

Did you think everyone should dive in on these types of threads and give their services free of charge?

I think people sometimes believe that other people owe them for some reason. Matter of fact, the world is made up of millions, but the truth is no one is owed anything. As Becky pointed out, these people have an "entitlement" mentality. So who has a negative mentality?

I charge for mentoring, but my model is a radical departure from a traditional "fee for services rendered" approach. Because I drop nearly 100% of everything I charge my students BACK INTO THEIR BUSINESS. Often MORE than 100% - if they don't make the big bucks, neither do I - it's akin to a "percentage of the long-term prize" strategy. And how much of that would they be giving up if they WEREN'T using my services, but were pursuing the same industry/model? EXACTLY THE SAME AMOUNT, irrespective of whether they get an advanced marketer/mentor in their camp or not. Sort of a no-brainer.

Mentors (and ESPECIALLY Internet Marketing Mentors) are NOTORIOUS for undervaluing their services - it's a common difficulty throughout the consulting world, but within the IM space, the "compression" of fees for services rendered is almost laughable. Mentors are WORTH MORE!! Charge accordingly!

Mentoring is lot like a marriage. It works Best if the Mentor Wants to Teach and the Students Wants to Learn. I think there are to many newbies that want to get rich quick and don't want to Learn slowly. And then there are Mentors that get frustrated because the Student is upset because they paid 5K to learn how to make 10k in 60 days and it didn't happen.
A good mentor should have a good long visit over the phone and 1 or 2 free coaching classes. Hopefully by then they can analyze how dedicated they really are to succeeding.
Again it is like a marriage...when both need/want each other then good things can happen.

To continue with the metaphor, I teach fly-tying, and wrist movement, and equipment research and design, and time-of-day strategies, and GETTING INSIDE THE HEAD OF THE FISH skills, and then cleaning the fish, cooking it, storing it for future use, along with fertilizing the garden with what's left over (smiling) and I WONT STOP til there's a boatload in the freezer (literally, i use BOATS!) and a big ol garden growing thanks to all that yummy fertilizer! hehe

I believe that people who spend different amount of money
have different attitude and mindset.

This is what I gathered from my own expereince.

I agree with Michael...many asked for free mentoring
are not that committed as compared to those who
are willing to spend a certain sum of money.

I had one experience which a subscriber of mine
asked me for free mentoring as he really needed
the amount of money urgently.

I helped him then and gave him my private email.
He never replied me after I have sent him a long email
with 15 questions asking for his experience, his
strengths and weakness, his resources etc so I can
better understand him and work with him.

But he never replied.

Anyway, in another incident for someone who
paid the mentoring fee upfront, he is always
completing the assignment I gave him on time.

I was discussing this with Jeremy that we would
prefer to mentor a paying mentee who is willing
to pay for our time and experience because he
is at the same time committed to his own success.

My 2 cents,
John

There is a zen saying, "When the student is ready, the teacher appears."

If you don't have a mentor, you are probably not ready for a mentor. When you are, one will present itself. Asking - and waiting - for one only gets in the way of becoming ready.

people looking for free mentoring for a cut of future profits are expecting someone else to take on all of the risk of their business start-up. That's a pretty crazy proposition.

I understand there's good money in coaching programs, but I don't know if I could deal with the lack of follow-through of the students.

Hi all

As someone who posted a thread asking for a mentor a couple of days ago (which is probably what sparked this thread off) I can only apologise for asking, given the answers I have read through on here.

I take on board everything that has been said here and realise that what I was expecting was something I really wasn't entitled to. The people here who are earning alot of money via IM, or whatever way, are doing so because they have tried and tested numerous methods (and failed no doubt on occasion) but have stuck with it, and eventually found the route to success.

There is so much information on here that I agree, people like me shouldn't need to ask for help, on a one-to-one basis, without expecting to pay for it.

On another thread I have admitted how "afraid" I am of taking that first step to actually doing something - my problem, no-one elses.

I honestly can't think of a valid reason why anyone would want to mentor me, for next to nothing, given my inability to actually start to put into practice, a plan of action, given that I can find an answer to most questions on here - the only things I am suffering from are information overload and being "side-tracked" via so many links to other things and wondering if the first thing I was considering doing is better than the second, or third.....

I apologise (sincerely) and do actually appreciate the kick up the backside that reading all these posts has given me

The issue with mentoring someone interested in Internet marketing is really where to start....

So where do YOU start?

*with the internet technicalities?
*time management?
*basic business principles?
*tools that can help automate things for you?
*Marketing and sales philosophies?
*Systems?

The reality is that most people who want to be mentored for free really are saying that they aren't willing to invest in themselves to make money. If you are a mentor and have a student that isn't willing to invest in themselves, why would you invest in them?

you know, there's a difference between looking for a mentor and be 'guided through' VERSUS being served success on a silver platter.

I've seen so many people pay money for courses, ebooks, seminars, even mentorship and they themselves don't follow through.

Sometimes, success is simple. Only that it requires alot of action. But it is exactly the same thing that people are unwilling to do.

I think its best to make it painful for the student for while at the start. This helps to sort out the wheat from the chaff. If students won't go through the painful process, then its a good indication that you can't help them...they are likely opportunity chasers rather than business builders...and are doomed to being endlessly distracted by the next shiny thing. Mentors have a duty to themselves to identify and weed out these students.

Sometimes, this involves money, but hard task focus is much better IMO. It has to be a baptism of fire. Large sales organizations use this method to sort new graduates all the time. They put them in a pressure cooker and invest their time in whats left over once the cooking is finished.

Anyone who wants mentoring for free doesn't value the time of the mentor. Why should they? The mentor obviously doesn't value his own time if he gives it away for free.

If someone comes to me and says "I don't have the money" my immediate reaction is "go and get a bucket and a sponge, knock on doors and wash cars".

Those who do are bound to succeed at whatever they do in life.

All the best

Barry

I cant stand MLM personally, but when someone signs you up for an MLM opportunity they are the exact thing as a "Free Mentor".

1: If you go to apply for a sales job at Merrill Lynch with the hopes of becoming a "Investment Banker" then your sales manager is what? (a free mentor, in fact; he might even PAY you).

2: If you go to real estate school and come out and you have a sales trainer then you have what "A free mentor"

3: If you want to learn how to get construction contracts and you take a job at a construction company to learn the ropes of selling "construction" what is that company to you? A "free" mentor.

4: If you go to a car lot for sales job they will pay YOU $500 a week for the opportunity to teach you how to sell cars... again "free mentor".



Free mentoring is only foreign, or unbelievable to people who don't understand "Business".


As apoc01 say's here; 'students' to many people are no more than "fodder" to make money off of.

Some teachers would rather make money off the teaching itself, than making money off the successful people created through their mentoring. It's because of this basic belief "People just don't have what it takes to succeed".

Hello?

To me; learning that 'everyone doesn't succeed' is an "elementary" part of becoming a person who helps ALOT of people to succeed.

No everyone doesn't succeed that you mentor, but "smart" mentors like the guy at the head of the "real estate" class... realize that if 10 fall off and only two actually sell a house in the next 8 weeks then he has made HUGE progress in his mentoring endeavor. He has also helped a needle find it's way out of the haystack.

It's not brain surgery; "mentoring" (the rest of us call it "training") has been going on for thousands of years...

You take a group of people and train them to do something, some fail, some succeed.

That's real everyday life.

You take the ones that succeed and they produce fruit...you forget the ones who didnt, then you start the process over and steadily build a concentrated army of successful people.

7 out of ten telemarketers I've trained failed, but I still developed a room of 100 killer telemarketers somehow, by stepping up to the plate everyday and "mentoring" both the successes and the failures alike.

I find this all very motivating.

Aside from my static website, IM is very new to me. I want to focus on affiliate marketing. I will say since I've been here, no one has come across to me like that(the bold remarks below) nor have I witnessed this.

I look at being new to a " online community" like I do when I go out to networking events to meet new prospects or referral partners.

Not at one event have I ever been given a referral on my first visit to one of the monthy events/association meetings that I attended.

It usualy takes a while. People want to get to know you, get to like you and trust you. They want to see how reliable you are and how serious you are about their and your business.

They want to see you get involved with the community and add value not just come "and get something".

I know this every time I get asked to join a offline association. I expect to "pay my dues" before I am truley acknowledged as a member of the club. You may not like that but that's the way things are.

That's the only way people send me referrals for my business. They've spent A LOT of time "watching me" without me even knowing it.

Ultra successful people know YOU MUST develop long term relationships to be MEGA successful. It's that simple.

My advice is to stick around and offer whatever you can offer. Nothing is too small or unimportant.

If you start a thread and get some response, by all means say thank you, even if that's not the answer you wanted.

Would I like guidence from one of the more successful Warriors, absolutely!

But I know I need to "prove" yes prove, that I am worthy of their time. Because the reality of it is, I'll benefit from them more than they will from me just based on them having more experience and more success than I.

I do not mind proving that I am worthy of being mentored. That's how little known folks become WELL KNOWN folks.

How do I do that? Stick around and add value to the forums. Bring a good positive attitude and be ready to work like hell!


Ron

"As a person who wants to charge you for training I suggest you don't ever get any for free... because it's not good."

I'm outta here.

I like to refer to mentoring as "dot connecting" - I maintain that almost EVERYONE can be successful online, if only for THOSE LAST FEW DOTS. And, WOW are they ever elusive for most people. They are MASTERS of 94, 95, even 97 of the 100 dots they need to be successful. It's those last 2 or 3 or 5 that are all the difference between struggling to make barely enough to keep the Internet service and domains and hosting paid for, and being able to tell their employer to shove it. Identifying the missing dots, building a plan of action to add those into someone's arsenal of online moneymaking weaponry - that is what good mentoring is all about.

Well, everything in the marketing world is based on the perception of the product, the impression of the sales letter and also the psychological impact of the entire package from sales letter, testimonials, graphics, to price and safter sales service. Selling a mentoring service is no difference. There are too much BS on the internet that prompt every newbie to question if the offer and promises are real.

Thus one cannot just jump to conclusion that many are reluctant to follow the steps taught and continue to pay for lessons that are rather lenghthy that hard to see results.

Willkho

I fully agree with you that newbies need a mentor to guide them on
making their first sale online.

However, i feel that you need not make $10,000 monthly
to be qualified as a mentor. In fact, if you can make a clickbank sale online
by yourself, you can become a mentor.

Afterall, this is real money which you make outside of your
9-5 job or that pathetic paycheck! It's only a matter of
refining and testing to make the next $100, $1000 a day
income.

Now, I want you to realize that Internet marketing is REAL
and tons of people have already made full time income online.

As a newbie, you either spend a lot of time figuring your way
out or invest some money and make learning faster and
more enjoyable.

Many people have no complains about spending at least 10 years of formal education
and tens of thousands of dollars to earn a degree which
cannot guarantee a lifetime income, but they expect to spend only
a little time and/or little money to make millions in a few months!!