Does Your Open % From Your LIST, SUCK?

by ktlasm 21 replies
Greetings,

I had a pretty darn cool conversation with a mentor of mine, and we discussed list primarily. To make a long story short (as he likes to say)..."Kevin, if people aren't opening the "sh**" all these internet marketers send them, they aren't making any freakin' money". I thought to myself how much sense that makes, but then again he can say pretty much anything because he generates 6 figs per month online. My point is, could it be that my mentor has forgotten how many ppl are online with list promoting pretty much the same thing a lot of other people promote...or could it be that he's out of touch with less earning marketers who don't have a name and reputation as his that allows him to send out anything and ppl will open it anyway just because.....Thoughts?

Peace & Tranquility
#main internet marketing discussion forum #list #open
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  • Profile picture of the author chrisgarrett
    I unsubscribe from a lot of lists not because the copywriting is bad but because all the want to do is sell-sell-sell, like they think their list is a herd to slaughter rather than human beings who signed up to receive something of value.

    The secret is to create an engaged audience, rather than just a passive list of people who are kinda-sorta interested.
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    • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
      I have to admit...

      One of my lists has a fantastic open rate and a crap conversion rate...

      BUT..

      Some of my lists that have poor open rates earn me more money...

      And I have to be honest again.. the bad converting list is the one I provide most content for and help out the most...the others get plenty of sales pitches and convert much better than the one with less pitches..

      Gofigure

      Peace

      Jay
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      Bare Murkage.........

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      • Profile picture of the author jonparker83
        I've only recently started building lists, but as I understand, whether or not an email has been opened can only be determined by whether or not the stats pixel (a tiny image) was loaded in the viewers email client.

        Images are blocked as standard by most email clients so I don't understand how you can possibly use this as an accurate measure of open rate?
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  • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
    Originally Posted by ktlasm View Post

    Greetings,

    I had a pretty darn cool conversation with a mentor of mine, and we discussed list primarily. To make a long story short (as he likes to say)..."Kevin, if people aren't opening the "sh**" all these internet marketers send them, they aren't making any freakin' money". I thought to myself how much sense that makes, but then again he can say pretty much anything because he generates 6 figs per month online. My point is, could it be that my mentor has forgotten how many ppl are online with list promoting pretty much the same thing a lot of other people promote...or could it be that he's out of touch with less earning marketers who don't have a name and reputation as his that allows him to send out anything and ppl will open it anyway just because.....Thoughts?

    Peace & Tranquility

    If you are promoting the same stuff, to the same crowd everyone else is, you must separate yourself from the crowd( brand yourself) and develop a relationship with your list. Give out a crazy offer to your list. Also, you don't want to appear to be always selling to your list. You need to be educating them- this can potentially raise open rates and keep subscribers longer.
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    "I Pay Less Attention to What Men Say. I Just Watch What They Do."
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    • Profile picture of the author Travis72802
      I think one of the most brilliant thoughts I've heard on the
      subject comes from Frank Kern...

      And it sure holds true on my lists...

      Loosely paraphrased from Frank:

      "They sign up for the content, but stay because of CHARACTER"

      I know my high open rate lists are the ones where I have let my personality
      shine through. Sure, some folks hate my guts! But...Some folks can't wait for my
      next email.

      I work the same way...

      I open all of Frank's email...
      JMo's
      Rich Jerk's

      All those fellas have PERSONALITY and character.

      A guy we don't hear much about...but is cleaning up in the infoproduct biz is Matt Furey...

      Selling wrestling cd's, dvd and guides.

      VERY STRONG PERSONALITY. You know who he is
      and what he stands for...even if you don't agree with
      everything he says.

      I still open his stuff...and I am barely interested in his content, (but I have bought
      a few things.)

      I am convinced the content versus pitch question is the WRONG question.

      Are you developing your CHARACTER?

      Is more accurate...yeah?

      Travis
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      • Profile picture of the author nursehoney
        My problem is not so much with the open rate...but the response rate. I've only just started building a list (I know, I know...shoulda done it a long time ago) and it's teeny tiny...less than 100 people at this point.

        But I don't pitch at them, in fact I've only suggested one product in nearly three months. I don't bombard their email...only send out once a week.

        But I don't know what they need, where they are in their business development, or what sort of information would help them the most.

        I went to SurveyMonkey, created a little 9 question survey and asked them to help me help them by filling it out. Not one person has done it.

        So I guess my question is, what do you write about when you're writing blind? It's become so frustrating for me, I'm ready to stop sending them anything at all!

        P.S. Hey Travis! Good to see you again...still getting your emails, but have missed you since I left WA.
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        • Profile picture of the author ktlasm
          Interesting stuff...
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          I'm pretty cool if I say so myself...lol, and I know my stuff, folks. I'm 31 years old and I'm full, full, full time on the internet. No part timing around this way...I'm here because I simply enjoy spreading as much love & light as I possibly can. Check me out on facebook,& say Hi. http://www.facebook.com/kevingmadison or twitter http://www.twitter.com/kevinmadison

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          • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
            Follow proven subject lines (subject lines you yourself opened, or subject lines used by top marketers).

            You leave yourself less open to chance.

            Fabian
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            • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
              List quality and responsiveness do seem to be the keys.

              If you have an email list of people who've bought from you before it's a whole lot easier to sell them a product priced around the same level or slightly higher priced.

              So a list of 100 people who've each spent $500 with you can be a VERY high quality list.

              Whereas a list of 5,000 people who've opted in for a free gift completely unrelated to the products you're trying to sell and promote can be a very LOW quality list.

              How targeted a list is certainly has a huge effect on it's quality and the kinds of offers the list will respond to.

              If you think through what a list has bought before in what price range and you offer products and services that are related and complimentary then your chances of making sales are much higher.



              The other elements in how responsive your list is likely to include the quality of your email service provider and the kind of emails you've sent in the past.

              If your emails are being dumped by the majority of ISPs or not making it through spam filters then very few of your subscribers will even get your emails so they can't respond.

              Also if you've sent pitch after pitch...especially if they were poorly targeted pitches for products only a tiny percentage of your list would have an interest in...then your responsiveness is likely to drop.

              On the other hand if you're always sending high quality highly targeted information including good value free content...especially if that content pre-educates your prospects on the value of a product or service you offer...

              Then you're likely to get a high response rate.

              Kindest regards,
              Andrew Cavanagh
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            • Profile picture of the author Takuya Hikichi
              Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

              Follow proven subject lines (subject lines you yourself opened, or subject lines used by top marketers).

              You leave yourself less open to chance.

              Fabian
              You know it's interesting how you say this (because I don't test these variables... OK Mr. John Taylor didn't read this), but I purposely keep all of my subject lines the same every email in order for subscribers to always open to read "what's inside" -- I think it's working.

              Originally Posted by ktlasm

              My point is, could it be that my mentor has forgotten how many ppl are online with list promoting pretty much the same thing a lot of other people promote...or could it be that he's out of touch with less earning marketers who don't have a name and reputation as his that allows him to send out anything and ppl will open it anyway just because.....Thoughts?
              I don't send html so I never know my what my "Open Rates" are and never liked Aweber's tracking cloaked link (clicks.aweber.com/werhio12165ehds5454akfj - you know that one) because it seemed to ME these links were bit less personal and I would be the first person to admit that as long as people were responding, I didn't look at these stats.

              But the recent upgrades with Aweber forced the default option to always "track" click through rates and all of the sudden I became interested in comparing Click through rates...

              Since nobody so far has said what their Open Rates average or Click through rates are, I am interested in reading what is average for everyone. Mine is about 30-35% CTR, but I don't even know if that's good, okay, bad, but I'm interested in learning what works for everyone or has anyone done any case studies or extensive testing on these areas.
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        • Profile picture of the author susansan
          Regarding no one taking your survey: A good tip I learned is that anytime you ask people to do something (i.e. to forward the email, feedback, survey, etc...), offer them something in return. For instance, "Get a free copy of my xxx report by taking this 2 minute survey." That should help your response rate in the future.

          If they're not opening the email to begin with, you might want to try split testing with different subject lines, HTML vs text. Also, make sure your spam score is low to ensure that your emails make it to the inbox.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tony M.
          Originally Posted by nursehoney View Post

          My problem is not so much with the open rate...but the response rate. I've only just started building a list (I know, I know...shoulda done it a long time ago) and it's teeny tiny...less than 100 people at this point.

          But I don't pitch at them, in fact I've only suggested one product in nearly three months. I don't bombard their email...only send out once a week.

          But I don't know what they need, where they are in their business development, or what sort of information would help them the most.

          I went to SurveyMonkey, created a little 9 question survey and asked them to help me help them by filling it out. Not one person has done it.

          So I guess my question is, what do you write about when you're writing blind? It's become so frustrating for me, I'm ready to stop sending them anything at all!

          P.S. Hey Travis! Good to see you again...still getting your emails, but have missed you since I left WA.
          1st of all, you should BRIBE them by offering something in exchange for their time.
          2nd, why not start by fulfilling the promises you made when they opted in ? I guess you stated back then what was in it for them right ?
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        • Profile picture of the author David Birley
          Originally Posted by nursehoney View Post

          My problem is not so much with the open rate...but the response rate. I've only just started building a list (I know, I know...shoulda done it a long time ago) and it's teeny tiny...less than 100 people at this point.

          But I don't pitch at them, in fact I've only suggested one product in nearly three months. I don't bombard their email...only send out once a week.

          But I don't know what they need, where they are in their business development, or what sort of information would help them the most.

          I went to SurveyMonkey, created a little 9 question survey and asked them to help me help them by filling it out. Not one person has done it.

          So I guess my question is, what do you write about when you're writing blind? It's become so frustrating for me, I'm ready to stop sending them anything at all!

          P.S. Hey Travis! Good to see you again...still getting your emails, but have missed you since I left WA.

          This works great for me:

          They sign up for the free report & video series, get sent a confirmation email, which doesn't send them to the "free report download" like most people do...

          ...Instead, when they confirm they're sent to a quick ANONYMOUS survey, that MUST be completed for them to get "the goodies". If they don't complete, there is absolutely no way they can get access to my stuff.

          The result:

          ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of people (so far) complete the survey, giving me KILLER information on what to write to them.

          The result of that? extremely high open rates.

          Oh - and I don't sell stuff to them every email.

          Hope that helps...

          Dave
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          • Profile picture of the author ktlasm
            Interesting...I've tested that method out before, and must say it worked well...Buuut, not 100%..Congrats too you Dave!
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            I'm pretty cool if I say so myself...lol, and I know my stuff, folks. I'm 31 years old and I'm full, full, full time on the internet. No part timing around this way...I'm here because I simply enjoy spreading as much love & light as I possibly can. Check me out on facebook,& say Hi. http://www.facebook.com/kevingmadison or twitter http://www.twitter.com/kevinmadison

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  • Profile picture of the author Justin Harrison
    The key to email marketing and any other form of marketing is always to give more value than you are asking for. If you are pitching the whole time and not delivering any value… well you will have a poor relationship with that list simple, however if you add value and really take the time to put in the effort and engage your readers, the open rate will take care of itself.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    There is a lot over overlap in the lists from popular marketers. I know I sign up and stick to the major names and those I like. When a launch happens I do get the same pitch multiple times. Most I open, some I don't.

    If I've decided to buy, then I look for the most creative and interesting email or, the most exciting extra bonus, then choose that link. If all things are equal, I'll buy from the first person that alerted me.

    There is a lot of the same stuff pitched over and over but its really my fault for being on every freaking list in town. They don't merge/perge between marketers lists. Anyone that complains about getting "spammed" by the same launch pitch over and over is on too many lists and/or doesn't understand marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author ktlasm
    It's been a while since I've visited this thread, but has anything changed for you guys since I originally posted this. Better yet, anything you've discovered that may assist in our efforts to increase our open rate?
    Signature

    I'm pretty cool if I say so myself...lol, and I know my stuff, folks. I'm 31 years old and I'm full, full, full time on the internet. No part timing around this way...I'm here because I simply enjoy spreading as much love & light as I possibly can. Check me out on facebook,& say Hi. http://www.facebook.com/kevingmadison or twitter http://www.twitter.com/kevinmadison

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    • Profile picture of the author Peter.B
      The lists I generally have the best 'open email' rates or 'conversion rates' are generally those lists that I "look after the best".

      By "look after the best" I mean provision of great quality free content that those on the list want and provision of "stories"

      I'm a bit of a survey freak and like to find out what a list wants, then go out and get it for them.

      Travis mentioned "character' and I couldn't agree more. It's not just giving away cool stuff, it's also coming across as a person with your own personality, your own story.



      Peter
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      • Profile picture of the author ktlasm
        Peter...Bro, I'm feeling that post and I couldn't agree with that notion more...Much appreciation.
        Signature

        I'm pretty cool if I say so myself...lol, and I know my stuff, folks. I'm 31 years old and I'm full, full, full time on the internet. No part timing around this way...I'm here because I simply enjoy spreading as much love & light as I possibly can. Check me out on facebook,& say Hi. http://www.facebook.com/kevingmadison or twitter http://www.twitter.com/kevinmadison

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    • Profile picture of the author TheCren
      Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

      I have to admit...

      One of my lists has a fantastic open rate and a crap conversion rate...

      BUT..

      Some of my lists that have poor open rates earn me more money...

      And I have to be honest again.. the bad converting list is the one I provide most content for and help out the most...the others get plenty of sales pitches and convert much better than the one with less pitches..

      Gofigure

      Peace

      Jay
      You're raising spoiled kids. The list you give lots of good content and help to is constantly looking for that next freeby ("Daddy, can I have $5k?"). Treat your list more like a cat with a ball of yarn. Never just give them the yarn, flash it in their faces quickly and take it away. They'll come running for it!
      Edit: OR you can try offering nice(r) bonuses. I reread my reply and decided, since I'm no expert myself, I don't want to sound like I'm diagnosing your problem. Just giving a few ideas I have that might help.

      Originally Posted by jonparker83 View Post

      I've only recently started building lists, but as I understand, whether or not an email has been opened can only be determined by whether or not the stats pixel (a tiny image) was loaded in the viewers email client.

      Images are blocked as standard by most email clients so I don't understand how you can possibly use this as an accurate measure of open rate?
      If they are generally blocked as standard (and you're right they are), then that's true across the board and you CAN use open rates as a reliable metric. The metric would only be unreliable if images were blocked for one list, but not another. Statistics 101 .
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