Internet Marketing Is NOT Selling How To Make Money Products

Nevertheless I think a valid point has been made here. Internet Marketing is not a business in and of itself, it is purely a method of doing business.

No, this is EXACTLY where I should be preaching because THIS is where you have all these CLUELESS people thinking that Internet marketing is nothing more than ripping off the guy on the other end of the PC.

It needs to stop, NOW!

HAhahaa! This just made my day!

I think so too (preaching to the wrong crowd) since that is what most of us try to do.

"Opportunity Internet Marketing" - who made that up? I think it sounds kinda silly... lol

Why do you think that? I've been marketing on the internet since the days
of the old usenet bulletin boards and I never thought it had anything to do with
having a job with some company.

If he were a marketer... LOL. I think Steven did a fine job of describing a mindset
that has permeated the forum over the years I've beeen observing and participating.

Once upon a time this was a place where people gathered to discuss, learn
and hone the craft. It has devolved (in my opinion) to a place where not much
is really happening on a positive note. It was once the best place on the net to
exchange ideas. It has become little more than a place to exchange money.

Hence... the group mindset Steven describes

I don't know about others, but I know that I appreciate fellow Warriors like yourself Michelle, that share their experience and information that can only be attained by actually doing the work. I seek out posts like that and I value the time it took and take notes. I also see the posts as an inspiration to keep going and my success is just around the corner!

So thanks to you Michelle and all the other Warriors helping on the forum, you are appreciated.

Carol

I've worked very hard for a few years now building a genuinely honest website and software to sell, have zero customers and have made nought pence in profit thus far (been busy coding), but still I follow my belief. I am only interested in learning how to promote the work I have risked my livelihood to produce. I've signed up for the Warrior forums so that I can take my hard work and sell it somehow to put food onto my sons table

So, Nightengale, Steven, if you and those like you disappear, all I'm left with is people selling people 'how to sell to people' - seems like a dog chasing its own tail to me. Just letting you know that you are most definitely appreciated by me, I've learned loads already in just one week about my stuff in my niche thanks to Warriors like you

You're right - it's funny, it took me a long time to realize that you only make money when you give people what they want.

So many of us try to convince people to eat carrots, when what they want is a pack of Malboros...

And that is what I've been saying all along: most people ending up in this forum don't care about the truth, they just want the quick pill.

Consequence? This type of thing, right here on this very house:




/Shrug... it's just the way it is.

Again, you are confusing the message with the medium. I'm not telling people not to sell "how to make money products" if that's what they want to do. I am saying that the term Internet marketing does not mean that.

Please read the definition again.

Yep, internet marketing as used today is more of a biz op. I originally came onto this site because I was already pushing a software product I developed for real estate investing. I originally created it for myself and then started selling it online.

I was making sales but knew I needed to learn more and this was where I ended up.

This was some time ago and it was more about marketing online and not biz ops. If I had come to this site now I would be very hesitant because a lot of what is sold here isn't of any interest to me.

I do think many people are like me and are put off from the circle jerk that we see today. That is who Steven is talking to. That is who I normally post for.

There are plenty of people who want something long term and are willing to work for it.

I have seen quite a few people talk dirt about this community yet you see them selling their stuff on the same site. Making money off the people you talk smack about is parasitic in nature as far as I'm concerned.

Wow! I got nailed there, didn't I? Could have sworn I was being positive, though

My business will be just fine, I'll make it so, that's why I'm here interacting with experienced people (and being careful to show my gratitude) rather than buying an eBook for $30 telling me how I'll earn god knows how many dollars in some once achieved time frame by one person once (probably by selling the eBook I just bought)

You know why Lance? Because they have no real business. They honestly don't know what they do and have no idea how else to describe it.

When people would ask me what I did when I was involved in the MMO niche, I told them I was a business consultant, that I helped other people setup and manage their business. I didn't go into detail about what products and/or services I offered as the above explanation was clear enough.

How many people start out and put up a blog one day and maybe sell some affiliate products, do some CPA and maybe some Adsense the next and then maybe dive into Kindle or Amazon the next because it's the new hot thing? And this goes on and on and on with absolutely no direction at all.

That's why they say they're Internet marketers because they really have no idea what they do.

First of all, I never sold any product with income claims. Secondly, once my business tanked, I removed all my MMO products from my signature. The only thing there now is a PLR pack that isn't even active because I took down my shopping cart system.

When I was in the MMO game, for lack of a better word, I was known as one of the good guys because I told it like it was and didn't make promises.

So before you come here and start spouting crap, you better have the proof to back it up, not that I really give a crap anymore because I'm out of that business. I have nothing to sell to anybody here related to making money online. My business is now music and I prefer it that way.

This thread reminds me of a story...

Lawyers (marketers) should never ask (post) a Georgia grandma (in the WaFo) a question (in my opinion a self-posturing thread) if they aren't prepared for the answer (if they aren't prepared how things could turn out for them)...

In a trial, a Southern small-town prosecuting attorney called his first witness, a grandmotherly, elderly woman to the stand. He approached her and asked, "Mrs. Jones, do you know me?"

She responded, "Why, yes, I do know you, Mr. Williams. I've known you since you were a boy, and frankly, you've been a big disappointment to me. You lie, you cheat on your wife, and you manipulate people and talk about them behind their backs. You think you're a big shot when you haven't the brains to realize you'll never amount to anything more than a two-bit paper pusher. Yes, I know you."

The lawyer was stunned. Not knowing what else to do, he pointed across the room and asked, "Mrs. Jones, do you know the defense attorney?"

She again replied, "Why yes, I do. I've known Mr. Bradley since he was a youngster, too. He's lazy, bigoted, and he has a drinking problem. He can't build a normal relationship with anyone, and his law practice is one of the worst in the entire state. Not to mention he cheated on his wife with three different women. One of them was your wife. Yes, I know him."

The defense attorney nearly died...

The judge asked both counselors to approach the bench and, in a very quiet voice, said, "If either of you idiots asks her if she knows me, I'll send you both to the electric chair"...

An internet marketing course is still a course... whether it's a golf course, a yoga course, a fitness/weight loss course, a diet course...

I think OP is missing the point really.

Sure, internet marketing is a "method", but even during the period of direct mail (and I'm pretty sure there still is), people have been running "make money" businesses. It's a legitimate business on its own as well. It's just "niched" from the market of "making money".

I don't think people need to attack the OP and I certainly don't think the OP is in a good position to try and down the "IM" marketers either.

lol there's so much money in other markets as well. I wouldn't bother convincing people who can't look out of their wells and have no common sense to pick up marketing principles before starting up a business really. From my (rather short) experience, many people believe what they want to believe.


Imogen

The whole thread summarized perfectly in 2 sentences

Then maybe I'm weird. I actually buy things that I need and use.

The other day I purchased a $500 piece of software for music production. Spectrasonics Omnisphere. You can look it up.

You damn well better believe I'm going to use it.

Every MMO book I ever bought (all 3 of them) I used. In fact, the very first one I ever bought made me an average of $1,200 a month because of it back in 2003. That was my first taste of any kind of success online and it was because of the book I bought. I followed every instruction in it to the letter.

So am I the oddball? If so, it's a sad commentary on our world in general.

You mean like these?

http://www.warriorforum.com/copywrit...-11-years.html

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ggestions.html

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...t-so-lost.html

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...tone-wall.html

Wow! Why all the vitriol, Steve?

I totally agree with your original points. There's much about the MMO niche and the WF that I despise. There are a lot of questions/comments that, in my opinion, are truly stupid.

Like: "Can Internet Marketing Be Used To Sell Legitimate Products?"

Uh...duh! Do Amazon, eBay, Zappos, Netflix, Hulu, etc. ring a bell????

Yes, this "industry" has it's own jargon, like all industries. But some of it is just truly inane.

Good point. But Internet marketing is not a niche. Make money online (MMO) is a niche. And Allen Says was in the MMO niche.

Semantics? Maybe. But it's still a valid point.

As I pointed out earlier, if you're selling a fitness program on TV, you're not in the television marketing niche. You're in the fitness niche.

If you go to a seminar to learn how to make more money with TV ads (selling your fitness program on TV), you're not going to come out of the seminar saying "I'm a TV marketer!"

Likewise, too many Warriors seem to think a website = a business.

Beep! Wrong answer! A website does not a business make. A business has a website.

Newbies and so many Warriors are so turned around it's no wonder they can't make money!

Or how about the "brilliant" answers to questions like "What's the best way to make money?" and someone says "Listbuilding!" as if listbuilding is a business in and of itself. The person giving the answer has no idea just how ignorant he is. Worse, he's put his ignorance on display for all to see.

All of that to say your original points are completely valid. And I agree with them.

BUT... why did this thread have to degenerate into a "Woe is me!" thread? Why the childish rant, disrespect, bad language and overall unprofessionalism?

We all have bad days and need to rant. But doing it on a public forum like this is not the way to do it.

It's ok to choose a different niche (music), but you don't need to criticize your own MMO products/efforts. You legitimately made money online. You legitimately sold MMO products. Where's the problem? I don't think you were intentionally scamming anyone.

There are A LOT of very successful people who have gone bankrupt and/or gotten into BIG trouble with their businesses. Frank Kern. Donald Trump. And that's just for starters.

So don't denigrate yourself or others selling MMO info. As Thomas Belknap said, your problem is easy to spot: you relied on ONE marketing method. Controlled by Google, no less. A truly STUPID move if there ever was one. But one that's easily fixed.

And your "failure" doesn't invalidate your previous success.

You could have chosen to add other marketing methods, but you chose to go into a different business altogether. That's totally ok, but STOP WHINING!

As for MMO info...

This is SUCH an awesome perspective! So true...

There's so much skepticism directed at MMO courses. Understandable, given how many scammers there are.

But it seems nobody believes anything anymore. All MMO marketers are tarred and feathered with the same brush, the "bad guy" just by virtue of selling MMO info.

Entrepreneur magazine started out as short reports on how to make money with different kinds of businesses. It evolved into Entrepreneur, a long-running and respected magazine.

There are TONS of fantastic IM courses out there from very reputable people:

1. Elevate from Ali Brown.
2. Product Launch Formula from Jeff Walker
3. 6-Figure Teleseminar Secrets from Lisa Sasevich
4. Client Attraction from Fabienne Fredrickson
5. Magnetic Marketing from Dan Kennedy

And on and on.

YOUR job is to sort through all of the available info to find the one that suits your needs. We've all gotten "scammed" at some point, but I can't honestly remember the last time I was scammed.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." If you keep getting scammed multiple times, YOU are to blame. We all need to learn how to sniff out the genuine article and buy the real McCoy. YOU are responsible for your buying decisions and no one else. Period.

Imogen is right: people will believe what they want to believe. Unfortunately, we can't help those people.

And as for having nothing to do until someone gets back to you:

Amen!

I had a LOT of problems with web designers and wasted a lot of money on them. (Including some Warriors who shall remain nameless. But suffice it to say, I will NEVER hire another Warrior for design again. Their skills just aren't up to snuff.) I couldn't get a good web designer and felt held hostage by them. I wasted a lot of money.

My business coach got firm with me and basically told me to stop whining and playing the victim. *I* was in charge and I needed to believe that I would find a designer with the skills I needed who would also conduct themselves professionally.

In the meantime, I could do X, Y, and Z until I found that person. In other words, stop whining and take control!

I finally DID get some awesome designs: a gorgeous logo from 99Designs.com (where I WASN'T held hostage by a single designer), and then a gorgeous web design from a design AGENCY (not a Joe Blow freelancer wannabe) that was recommended by a colleague I trusted.

Fire that person and get a different system if you need to. Maybe get a system that's used by more people so it's not so specialized?

In other words, find a way to reduce your dependence on others as much as possible. You're making the same mistake you did earlier by relying on only article marketing: You're ceding control to someone else.

STOP THAT!

If you have to switch entire systems, then do it. yes, it's a huge headache up front. But it will save you untold headaches later!

Stop playing the victim. Man up, make the hard decisions and then move forward.

If you keep having problems with outsourcers, YOU are to blame because YOU hired them/bought their system!

Thanks so much Carol. It's nice to now I'm reaching SOMEONE.


Michelle

I totally agree with you here. You "get" the difference. A LOT of newbies and Warriors don't. Too many slap up a dog training (or whatever niche) ebook and say/think they're in the "IM niche."


Only if he's TEACHING listbuilding.

And yes, my comment WAS (at least a bit) mean.

I don't generally come here and rant, make "mean" comments" or threaten to leave forever and exit stage left in a blaze of glory.

I generally keep my snarkier comments to myself. But I see SO MUCH misinformation/partial information that I really have to bite my tongue sometimes.

I see the "listbuilding" comment SO much. However:

1. This is often the ONLY comment made to a complete newbie asking a very general question like "How can I make money online?"

There's NO context or further explanation given, rendering the answer virtually worthless to the OP. And that breeds frustration.

2. The comment is often a case of "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

That is, the commenter knows not much more than "listbuilding." He can't give context, reasons why it's important, how listbuilding fits into the bigger picture, any more specifics/details about HOW to do it, etc. As I said, it's often presented as a business in and of itself, which it's not. It's a fundamental marketing activity for ALL businesses, regardless of what business you're in. But it's not a business.

Essentially, he's merely parroting the answer without understanding it.

And it makes me want to SCREAM when I see that, because it only confuses the OP even more! I feel bad for them.

Yes, my comment was harsh, but that was deliberate on my part. I don't make it a habit to go around insulting people online. But people need to realize how UNhelpful half-baked answers like that really are.

When I was new here, I was so frustrated!

Too much info rolling by too fast, in a very disorganized fashion. Much of it inaccurate or half-baked. I'd ask a simple, but specific question and get a very general response. So general as to be unhelpful.

Or unprofessional.

For example, someone asks for specific help/tips on video marketing. Instead of getting specific camera recommendations, shooting/editing specifics, or maybe a video course recommendation, some "genius" comes by and offers "helpful" advice like: "Always smile and be yourself."

Arrghhh!

Is he right? Yes. But it's not particularly helpful at the time. It's so general as to be virtually useless.

Personally, those kinds of responses drove ME crazy when I was looking for help. So I determined to give more helpful, specific info when I could be of help.

But handing out inaccurate info like "Listbuilding" (as if it were a business in and of itself) when asked how to make money doesn't help the OP. It only muddies the waters without context or further help/recommendations.

There is too much inaccurate and INCOMPLETE info given here. It certainly contributes to the failure rate in IM.

Don't think so?

What about someone who has somehow, accidentally, made a little bit of money? He comes here to crow about it -- and rightfully so.

And what is the WF's response? "Congrats! Now scale up!"

Not everything is scalable, sustainable or repeatable. Alexa has pointed this out several times.

Many express their frustration with their seeming inability to make money online, especially if they've already made some, but can't seem to repeat it.

Too many go off half-cocked, without having done their homework or even really knowing what business they're really in. But all Warriors can say is "scale up!" or "Keep going, don't quit!" They can't seem to offer anything more substantial than that.

But if what the OP is doing isn't repeatable, sustainable or scalable (not everything is), "keep going" is very bad advice. Sometimes, the best advice is to stop, re-evaluate, maybe go in a completely new direction.

Too often, though, Warriors are like lemmings all going off the cliff together, offering nothing helpful at all.

So that's where I'm coming from.

But does it matter? Whether I rant or offer help, this thread will disappear in two days. And more newbies will come asking the SAME questions over and over.

If we ever wanted to help anyone, posting on a forum has absolutely got to be the least efficient, least effective way ever invented to do it. I'm just shouting in the wind and no one hears. (And I say that only as an expression of frustration, not a "poor me" sentiment.)

Michelle

The man (Steven) can turn out some word count, original, readable, engaging word count at that. That's what he should be doing if not for the sake of earning $.xx amount per word for the sake of adding content to to attract traffic to his music site. That is, if he just has to stick with the music site.

I'd never say the music thingy won't work ever, I just personally think, on the internet, words earn more money than tunes for MOST "unknown" individuals. I've seen first hand, professional, known musicians flop on selling background tracks.

There is a thought among a lot of indie musicians that to earn a somewhat decent living you need "1,000" fans. That translates to meaning 1,000 people who are willing to pay you $100 a year.

If a word seller has 1,000 fans she can make that much or even more.

Anyway, if I was a betting man (or is it were a betting man?) I'd bet SW will be back sooner or later.

At the end of the day this is just a forum and life is too short to worry about "it."

George Wright