When will the WF end income guarantees?

9 years ago

I believe you mean income "claims", rather than guarantees - guarantees are legally enforceable. But yes, income claims are tacky and do not belong in a professional marketplace, IMO.

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Lucian Lada

9 years ago

Not likely, no. Unless they are expressly forbidden, they won't go away, mainly because people want something concrete, not just "you'll make money", which is vague and difficult to define.

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TomVa

9 years ago

I couldn't agree MORE... it's sad it's been allowed to go on this long, but again this is their forum.

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Alexa Smith Banned 9 years ago

I was very interested, many weeks ago, to see a comment from Paul Myers in a thread discussing this, where he mentioned that he thought it was possible the new owners might think about this. (He didn't claim it was any more than a guess, as I remember, but it struck me that he was perhaps a little better placed to guess than most of us? ).

I admit I got my hopes up, a little bit. And they still haven't altogether subsided.

It would be a great opportunity for the site's owners to continue to make a name for themselves here, by doing something else really, really good, in my opinion. Though I see that in the short term, it may cost them some advertising revenues, so it's perhaps asking an awful lot.

Unless/until that happens, I imagine there'll still be quite a lot of us continuing to advise members not to buy anything here (or elsewhere) whose sales offer rests on income claims. As Frank rightly mentions above, they're very tacky indeed and have no place at all in a professional marketplace.

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Brent Stangel

9 years ago

As long as people continue to buy them they will not stop.

People are more willing to buy into "claims," then they are , "You'll make money, but it takes work."

Quote from a subscriber:

do you guarantee any results with the funnel you set up?????
what is usual optin and conversion rate??????/

I replied with a dose of reality and haven't heard from them since. BTW I was asked to set this up. I wasn't trying to sell anything.

People who buy these programs are back to buy more, a week later. It's the nature of the beast.

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rbates 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Brent Stangel

People are more willing to buy into "claims," then they are , "You'll make money, but it takes work."

It amazes me the misinformation that so many new people seem to be
getting from "Somewhere" about making an income online. There are so
many posts about "How can I make $200 this weekend?", or
"Show me exactly what to do to make $5,000 by tomorrow". Of course,
they go on and criticize everyone who attempts to help them by telling them
it takes actual work.

So many of the WSO's have their headlines (which is strictly smart copywriting)
telling the readers that they can have it all for no work, no money (except the
price of the product), and they can do it all from the comfort of their beach chair.
RIGHT!

I agree that unless there is a way to follow through on a "Guarantee", that
it should have no place in an ad. Also, most guarantees expire with PayPal's
liability time frame. If you don't request the refund within "X" amount of time,
something like a 60 days, then you lose the right to your "Guaranteed" refund.

Originally Posted by HelpingYouBeAnExpert

but I feel it's my duty to protect those who want to say what they want even if it's not true, that is what freedom is about!

That is not freedom, that is FRAUD! Fraud is punishable through legal action.
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- Steve B 9 years ago
  
  In my experience, most income guarantees are not guarantees of income.
  
  I know that may sound a little convoluted, but check a few of them out by reading the fine print.
  
  What most owners of these products say is that they guarantee to give the price of the product or course you purchased back. They won't guarantee that the user will make "six figures in six weeks" as their advertising might claim.
  
  And yes, it is very misleading . . . but I see it all the time.
  
  Steve
  
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paulie123

9 years ago

The income claims are a headline technique designed to get the prospect to read the sub-headline and subsequently, the body of the sales letter. As for answering your question...it will never end because of the above mentioned.

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Alice12345

9 years ago

Yea, probably it is just an sale boost tittle. Everyone want their money to be guarantee to be profit. No one want to lose their money right? Increase your motivation a bit by giving you hopes.

I just wonder, if there is a program which really guide you from start to end in order to make REAL profit. A guru which is so REAL that it is guarantee to have a result like them. Maybe I am still in daydream.

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PBN301

9 years ago

Caveat Emptor. I thought that was shopping 101

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kj1010

9 years ago

Y=The problem is that when you do not give any idea of what is possible with the product being sold you still get a lot of people asking to be provided with some type of income idea to be given even if only 1 person has ever made that amount of money with it.

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gluckspilz

9 years ago

This probably go against most people reading this thread but I actually don't see anything wrong with claims in general (not just internet marketing). Of course, it goes without saying that a false claim is nothing more than a lie.

An example where experience marketers will understand is something like "I've been making money on autopilot month in, month out. I guarantee that if you follow my strategies, you too can make money"

Hype and scammy right?

I then proceed to teach them my personal strategies for launch jacking.

Now, here is the main question.

Does launch jacking work? Of course it does. Add in a few bonus and you're good to go.

Are the students going to implement what they learn? Probably not, no one does.

If they do take action, are they going to see results straight away? Probably not, but results will come in if they continue to do what they are told. It's not hard.

So in conclusion, are the claims scammy and unethical? In this example, I don't see how it is.

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Angshuman Dutta

9 years ago

Originally Posted by joecason

Just curious. Do you think the warrior forum will ever end income guarantees? I honestly think income guarantees are ruining the quality of this forum. I see these ads/WSO's daily.

I think the warrior forum has great information. I would just like to see these silly income guarantees gone so members can talk about what works instead of wasting time and money on all of these "get rich quick" products on here.

I know this is not a popular thing to say, but if you disagree I would like to hear why.

Note: Teaching others how you made $100 per day, and Guaranteeing them to make $100 per day are two different things.

That reminds me of Google Adwords not accepting make money advertisements (with claims and other seedy stuff). One can guarantee the process, not the results.

Having said that, most make money WSOs are targeted towards newcomers who've had little to no success in IM and have little knowledge of how things work. They want some assurance that their money (on the next shiny WSO) won't go to waste and that's supposedly the "selling point" of such products offering "guarantees".

I wouldn't blame sellers if the platform allows that because that's nothing more than a marketing trick. The "guarantee" is the "shine" on the shiny product that people are after. There's definitely a demand for it (see the comments in the WSO section and you'll know) and sellers are just fulfilling the demand!

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wolfmmiii

9 years ago

I guess it depends on the guarantee and how it's worded. I offer an earnings guarantee on a few of my offers. However, I NEVER guarantee a specific earnings amount. The wording on my guarantees is always very clear as well.

Telling someone that they will make $1000/day with an hour of work is unethical. Telling that person that they will make money or they will get their money back is totally acceptable.

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HelpingYouBeAnExpert

9 years ago

Last time I checked we still had the freedom to say what we wanted. I personally like to tell the truth and I say the real truth that I can't guarantee anything since it depends on what people will do and as we know people get distracted and many don't implement so I state that, but I feel it's my duty to protect those who want to say what they want even if it's not true, that is what freedom is about! It's about letting people way the "wrong" thing that makes us blood boild if we stop that then we are just surfs.

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Frank Donovan 9 years ago

Originally Posted by HelpingYouBeAnExpert

Last time I checked we still had the freedom to say what we wanted.

Check again. There are strict guidelines on what you can legitimately say in an advert. Deliberate misrepresentation, for example, can (and often does) result in legal action.

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Tsnyder

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HelpingYouBeAnExpert

Last time I checked we still had the freedom to say what we wanted. I personally like to tell the truth and I say the real truth that I can't guarantee anything since it depends on what people will do and as we know people get distracted and many don't implement so I state that, but I feel it's my duty to protect those who want to say what they want even if it's not true, that is what freedom is about! It's about letting people way the "wrong" thing that makes us blood boild if we stop that then we are just surfs.

Is this a joke?

No... you do not have the right to say whatever you want.

You do not have the right to lie for the purpose of making money.

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Raydal

9 years ago

I don't think that income claims are illegal but they must be
"reasonable" and what the "average person" is able to achieve
otherwise you'll have to provide proof. This website has a great
discussion on the issue as related to an MLM company.

The Rules of the Game
The FTC used the following legal argument to make its case against FHTM:
Any income claim that is considered to be deceptive needs a disclosure. The FTC considers an income claim deceptive where information that would affect a reasonable consumer’s judgment is misrepresented or omitted.[1] There is a presumption that all information regarding earning potentials affect consumer’s judgment, even when you do not guarantee they will make any money.[2] Out of those claims, it is also presumed to be reasonable for consumers to rely on statements you expressly make,[3] regardless of whether you tell them making “big money” is a sure thing or not.[4] In other words, all income claims that are atypical need adequate disclosures.

The FTC says that any income claim made is regarded as what consumers will “general[ly achieve . . . .”[5] In other words, what you represent as potential money to a prospect is what a reasonable prospect will expect to earn. IF YOU LACK SUBSTANTIATION (aka, you have no proof) that the majority of your distributors earn the amount represented by a few high earners, you must give a clear and conspicuous disclosure indicating exactly the percentage of distributors who earn at least the amount you represented.[6] And you must also disclose the average earnings. If you’re a distributor that’s working with a particular company, if they do not provide adequate income disclosures, DO NOT MAKE INCOME CLAIMS. The pressure is on them to provide the data.

-Ray Edwards

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@tjr

9 years ago

I would imagine that the lack of a stance on the issue is so that the WF can keep themselves from having to police each and every product that comes through the pipeline. I'm sure that in the past (and at the moment) their hands are full enough just keeping normal forum bullcrap under control.

That being said, I'm all for the marketplace taking a stance against less than desirable offers (and the advertisements that get them sold). I'm sure if a plan was drafted that would allow the forum to remain profitable (in terms of offers still being posted and the cost of the "WSO Police") that the new ownership would be on board as well.

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E-Estates

9 years ago

There are some gems. We should be picky and do due diligence.

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When will the WF end income guarantees?

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