Here's A Tough Question For You Guys...

17 replies
Hi all,

I have a problem...and that's that I'm a newbie. I've studied John Carlton for copywriting, Perry Marshall for Adwords, Rich Schefren for marketing strategies, Mark Widawer for some sales letter and e-mail marketing stuff, John Abraham, and so on...

But no matter what I do, I can't shake off the feeling of "being new"...or to be more specific: I'm only good in telling it, not selling it.

I suck...
- Hardly any results with my sales letter
- Hardly any results with new products/letters OR after "improving" them with the tips given on these forums

And I invested so much time in it! I get the feeling that I'm below average or average at best with EVERYTHING I do for my online business, while it has always been my dream to be a ceo...literally: I already wanted to be it when I was a little boy!

I mean...YES I see improvement in the # of website visitors: went from 30 a week to 300 a week in under 2 months, YES I see the number of subscribers to my list increase more rapidly over time and same goes for ppc advertising using Microsoft's Adcenter...

BUT I'M NOT SELLING ANYTHING TO NEW CUSTOMERS NO MATTER WHAT I SEEM TO DO.

I've been putting in 32+ hours per week to set things up, to study stuff, to improve stuff, to get things going, to keep things going since June last year so yes I'm new and yes I'm young...but am I being unrealistic with myself or what?

I get the feeling that it'll probably be better if I enjoy every - bleep - thing I need to do in my business because I don't know where my talents are anymore!

I mean, what am I supposed to do? Over here in the Netherlands, there's no one like me who has an internet only business that sells info-products...and I'm getting desperate man...

And you know what?

- Do you know how many "gurus" are saying that copywriting "is easy", especially if you know how to write? That's a load of crap because I won every single writing competition in school and in college, so I KNOW allright...but no one buys in a market that's full of buyers Rich Schefren always speaks of how one should have proof of concept...but what are you supposed to do when you're losing faith and aren't an expert in ANY other field?

- All the "gurus" that say pay per click "is easy", you guys are even fuller of crap because NONE of the things you taught me are still in effect today, so thanks for nothing...because the moment I said screw it I'll work my but off with Adcenter? I had keywords with 100% conversion, campaigns with 10% conversion...while there were dozens and dozens of impressions...

So in short...I'm in a bad place right now, and the only guy I still believe is Rich because he says "just in time learning: learn only what you need to know right now to grow your business".

Signing off before I start cursing here...

D.
#guys #question #tough
  • Profile picture of the author HansM
    Hi Dennis,

    I believe most internet marketers have been there, even the so-called guru's. Sometimes it just has to get worse before it gets better.

    I'm not an expert on copywriting so I won't give you advice there, but when I read your post, I notice your ambition to be a CEO. Do you realize that most CEO's are NOT an expert in every single area of their business? In non-IM businesses, most CEO's have either a commercial, a financial or a technical background, they're not sheep with 5 legs (to use a common Dutch saying).

    Although I'm a noob in IM as well, I'm not a noob in business. I can think of a couple of things you could try, and I'm sure others will add to that... (and then you can answer: I already did all of that):

    • Get a good coach. It might cost some money - there are even a few WSO offers going on - but it might help to get feedback and to have someone looking over your shoulder;
    • Outsource copywriting. Even though you're apparently a good writer, not every writer is a copywriter;
    • Get hired as a ghostwriter for ebooks or articles, to get money coming in, to leverage (and maybe improve) your writing skills, to re-establish your confidence, and to reduce the stress from your current endeavour;
    Just my three cents... I also sent you a PM, since we're both Dutch etc...

    HansM
    Signature

    The Online Business Architect

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1073153].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author andrewaff
      I am enjoying the discussion and wondering to get joined more readers for this..
      Signature
      Agency SEO Packages on WF
      Get good discount on SEO services, reseller SEO plans and whitelabel seo services.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1073391].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mark McClure
        Dennis,

        It sure is frustrating to be in stage 2 of this model...

        Four stages of competence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

        But the good thing is that you know you're a learner and can still improve.

        Are you sure there are no IM info product marketers in the Netherlands?
        In my experience, you guys are a trading nation and all seem to speak 3 or 4 languages ;-)

        How hard have you looked?

        I'll send you a PM of Dutch business coach I know who has some IM savvy - he may be plugged into the IM 'scene' in your country.

        Good luck.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1073531].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Bart Loos
    Originally Posted by Dennis Miedema View Post

    Hi all,

    I have a problem...and that's that I'm a newbie. I've studied John Carlton for copywriting, Perry Marshall for Adwords, Rich Schefren for marketing strategies, Mark Widawer for some sales letter and e-mail marketing stuff, John Abraham, and so on...

    But no matter what I do, I can't shake off the feeling of "being new"...or to be more specific: I'm only good in telling it, not selling it.

    I suck...
    - Hardly any results with my sales letter
    - Hardly any results with new products/letters OR after "improving" them with the tips given on these forums

    And I invested so much time in it! I get the feeling that I'm below average or average at best with EVERYTHING I do for my online business, while it has always been my dream to be a ceo...literally: I already wanted to be it when I was a little boy!

    I mean...YES I see improvement in the # of website visitors: went from 30 a week to 300 a week in under 2 months, YES I see the number of subscribers to my list increase more rapidly over time and same goes for ppc advertising using Microsoft's Adcenter...

    BUT I'M NOT SELLING ANYTHING TO NEW CUSTOMERS NO MATTER WHAT I SEEM TO DO.

    I've been putting in 32+ hours per week to set things up, to study stuff, to improve stuff, to get things going, to keep things going since June last year so yes I'm new and yes I'm young...but am I being unrealistic with myself or what?

    I get the feeling that it'll probably be better if I enjoy every - bleep - thing I need to do in my business because I don't know where my talents are anymore!

    I mean, what am I supposed to do? Over here in the Netherlands, there's no one like me who has an internet only business that sells info-products...and I'm getting desperate man...

    And you know what?

    - Do you know how many "gurus" are saying that copywriting "is easy", especially if you know how to write? That's a load of crap because I won every single writing competition in school and in college, so I KNOW allright...but no one buys in a market that's full of buyers Rich Schefren always speaks of how one should have proof of concept...but what are you supposed to do when you're losing faith and aren't an expert in ANY other field?

    - All the "gurus" that say pay per click "is easy", you guys are even fuller of crap because NONE of the things you taught me are still in effect today, so thanks for nothing...because the moment I said screw it I'll work my but off with Adcenter? I had keywords with 100% conversion, campaigns with 10% conversion...while there were dozens and dozens of impressions...

    So in short...I'm in a bad place right now, and the only guy I still believe is Rich because he says "just in time learning: learn only what you need to know right now to grow your business"

    Signing off before I start cursing here...

    D.
    Hey Dennis..

    Great..take that frustration and use it to focus yourself

    As you say things you've implemented are working. You're seeing improvements.


    One thing you gotta be looking out for is that you don't want to mess things up with a desperate state..you gotta be clear thinking.

    Sit down and focus on the parts that are not working.. or drop them completely or improve them.

    You say that " BUT I'M NOT SELLING ANYTHING TO NEW CUSTOMERS NO MATTER WHAT I SEEM TO DO."

    Seems you're doing lots of changes but don't know where you are going.

    Well are you tracking what you are doing?

    Do you have a plan what to do next.

    Where do you not follow advice exactly?

    When you follow advice exactly but it isn't working.. get on the forum and ask 'hey guys i'm doing X, the advice you gave me, but this is not working.. am I missing something?'

    Now other thing to look out for is the mind trap that if I do X it certainly will get me Y this is the one way to get disappointed over and over again.

    To quote Eben Pagan freely, "predict that only 20% of what you think is gonna work, is really gonna work"

    Oh and there's Casper Camps in the Netherlands who's into the IM niche.

    Have fun

    Bart
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1073603].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author masonpan
    Hi Dennis. Firstly sorry to hear that you are so down at present. It was good to see that there was another Dutch guy who contacted you so at least you are not quite as alone now. I sound like an agony aunt !! We all go through these depressions and have to work through them but it does help if there is someone else you can talk to. I am still pretty new at this so maybe I'm not the best to comment but I found it was good to be able to bounce things off other people. This site is great for that. I wish you good luck and hope all will turn round soon for you. Stick at it, you sound like you have what it takes to get there in the end. Take care. Terry
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1079989].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Miedema
    Hi everyone! Thank you for all your support and wonderful advice, I've immediately put it to good use. I've been treating things more and more like a business, I'm tracking more and more and Bart... that's a very good insight, that "reality percentage." I'll keep that one in mind for a long time.

    I'm re-reading my post here and it's a good example of a down, but it's one of a series of ups & downs and I've noticed lately that the FASTER you fail, the better...because it's means you can correct course faster and "hit closer to home", make another mistake, correct, fire again...until you get it right.

    Or in the words of what's her name: ready, fire, aim!

    I'm happy I made this post too, because whenever I'm in a down again I can come back and reflect...and "heal" faster because yes, clear thinking IS needed.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1083825].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    Hi Dennis,

    I feel your pain man. Many of us do, and continue to. Call it business growing pains if you like, but realize one thing:

    You'll always have a degree of frustration in business and if you don't, then you're not in business...you're in pretend land, or you're simply a stagnant business riding off previous success.

    My advice as a fellow copywriter is simple:

    1. Make sure the copy you are writing is for products which have been thoroughly researched for viability. Rather sell a lolipop to a baby than a celery stick.

    2. Make sure you know your audience on a deep level. Including problems, desires and what flavour of lolipop they like the most, and what lolipop they really want but can't find anywhere (especially at the price you're offering)

    3. Test EVERYTHING. That includes lolipop warppers, flavours, ingredients, names, prices, bonuses, stories behind how you made the lolipop...etc etc.

    And finally, try to get away from resting your responsiblities of your own success on other people's advice. What I know to be true these days is that common sense + basic proven principles will beat out any risk of failure 99.9% of the time...providing you're able to retrain your brain to think for itself (after all, it's so easy to start resting on other people and simply expect answers over time...)

    May the force be with you young Dennis...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1084406].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Maryleena
    This conversation is really good for me to...I'm even more new to this buisness and now I know wat to look out for!
    Great that this is a place to cry out and get help!

    Marlene
    Signature
    I see the potential in you...Use it!

    You Need Energy To Be Successful - 30 Day Get More Energy Challenge - Free Video Tip Series

    Visit My Blog: www.marlenekristensen.com
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1087259].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author wolf29
      If there is anything I've learned is not to give up. Before last year, I tried for 5 years to make some money off the internet. All flops and I had many chances and reasons to give up. But I never gave up learning and experimenting as I kept holding the belief that there was something out there that would work for me. Fast forward to today and I am blessed to be able to pay off all my daughters schooling, for example, for the next several years from my internet ventures.

      So if you do anything, don't quit and keep believing that you'll find your way. Just don't bounce around from idea to idea, guru to guru, etc. as I did for those 5 years. I found something I finally liked and once I made my first $100 I knew it could be bigger.

      So all the courses, ebooks, gurus, etc. won't do a thing for you unless you believe you can have a piece of the pie. If there is always doubt in the back of your mind, you'll sabotage yourself without even realizing it.

      Good luck
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1087467].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Marc Perriere
    Hey Dennis,

    I definitely can affirm that I have been there as well, so I surely understand the frustration! One thing that I have learned over the past 10 years is that sometimes we may be deceived by the power of IM. Especially on the theme of speed to be succesful: let's face it, we all want to succeed, and we all want it now!!

    Internet allows to travel, cross places and time in a couple of clicks, but when it comes to business, I personnally believe that it is always better to think long term, although we all know that things may happen fast, patience is a key principle in the big internet hurricane.

    So I believe you should not be too harsh on yourself whenever you fail, we may have several attitudes in such cases, but I think each failure is a great opportunity to reach a new level of understanding on areas of process improvement in what you are aiming.

    All of the above replies to your threads I really appreciated because they are eyes oponer.
    There is one in particular from HansM where he spoke about outsourcing copywriting that caught my attention. I have personnally started doing this, it is not so expensive and it is really excellent SEO content articles that I could obtain.

    With that, I have gotten rid of a lot of frustration and avoided big wastes of time. My approach is that, I cannot do it all by myself, so I am trying to create a network of people not only for their knowledge but to share my experience as well, there is a lot of power in collaboration and exchange :-)

    So if you would like more info about this, please do not hesitate to let me know, good luck to you man!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1087664].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Originally Posted by Dennis Miedema View Post

    Hi all,

    I have a problem...

    But no matter what I do, I can't shake off the feeling of "being new"...or to be more specific:

    I'm only good in telling it, not selling it.

    I suck...

    I get the feeling that I'm below average or average at best with EVERYTHING I do

    BUT I'M NOT SELLING ANYTHING TO NEW CUSTOMERS NO MATTER WHAT I SEEM TO DO.

    I don't know where my talents are anymore!

    I'm getting desperate man...

    I'm in a bad place right now

    D.
    Well! Take a good, long and hard look at how you are programming your mind and setting
    your self up for all the things you do not want.

    Have a quick read in this sub-forum, "Be careful what you ask for... ". It's a thread I started
    recently. Just my observations but it's 100% relevant to your post, here.

    I'm not trying to sound harsh. Please believe me. It's just that right now there are a few
    things going on in your head. Your frustration is understandable. In my very humble opinion,
    the best thing you can do right now is go within and do several things.

    1. Start paying more attention to your every day thoughts.
    2. Realize that your thoughts transmit energy and work to bring your life to fruition. That is
    a very powerful way we all create our lives.
    3. Work toward quieting your mind. When you do this, you will be better able to pay attention
    to your thoughts.
    4. Avoid directing negative energy toward your self because you are not yet where you want to be.
    5. Perspective is another powerful thing. You can view your past experiences as failures, or
    you can view them as learning experiences that make you stronger.

    Not being sarcastic, but that's why they call it experience. Everyone gets it the same way
    you're getting it.
    6. Keep doing what you're doing and try to remain focused on what you're doing.

    History is full of highly successful people who were "failures" for years. The "overnight" successes
    in entertainment took years to happen.

    Most importantly, you will become the things you think and say.

    Keep at it. When you do succeed, all of your past attempts will not matter and you'll only
    have a future full of more successes and fewer not-so-successful endeavors.

    Relax. Stay cool.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1087802].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author brotherpaulmiller
    One way to shake the feeling of being "new" is to help those who are "newer" than you are.

    I have been in this business for years now, and there are some that know far more than I do, so I focus on helping those that know less than I do.

    You know more than you think you do. And, by helping those who know less than you do, you will find more success in stretching your skills.

    Focus on a niche that YOU are an expert on, or that you want to be an expert on.

    Sales never come easy in this business until you start building a trust level with others. It's about building a relationship before you get people to start buying from you.

    Hope that helps!

    Make it a great day!

    Brother Paul
    Signature

    Money Is Not Real, So Therefore It Can Be Created From Nothing. http://tinyurl.com/twautoresponder
    Brother Paul
    http://how2ofwealth.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1107614].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ThomasW
    Find someone who has done it and pay them to teach you how to do it. Is it reasonable to assume that a person could read a book, or go to a seminar, or watch a webinar and then open a coffee shop and succeed to overcome all the obstacles and competition out there? And then feel down when it doesn't work out?

    For some strange reason, people keep buying how to courses and making a few individuals very wealthy teaching how to make money online. It's sad.

    If you were to open a real business in the "brick and mortar" world, the first thing you would is find a successful business person to teach you - or purchase a franchise and get hands on training and support.

    An internet business is a business - full of unexpected surprises, sharks in the water, and fasle promises galore. Find a genuine mentor and give him,or her, your money. Stop thinking you are going to learn all you need to know from a "dream seller" selling a book, course, or webinar.

    Positive thinking happens when you are acting responsibly and succeeding.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1108153].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author WealthWinners
    Man, I so much know how you feel. One thing I have really had to do is start making lists and get focused. I would be all over the place trying to do it all. The reality you can't do it all. Take a small piece, and perfect it, then move to the next. The success will come, providing you are actually doing what you see others doing that is working.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1108431].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author psresearch
      Dennis,

      You might also want to look at the type of questions you are asking. This is kind of an add-on to what Bart mentioned about the 20%.

      Instead of asking, "Did I get results?" as a core question, consider asking "How many new 'tests' did I set up today"? (I.E. a test could be a new page, a change in copy, a new linking strategy, a new Web 2.0 page).

      A question like that is quite a bit removed from the "success/failure" type questions that it seems you are weighing yourself down with.

      Yes, you will want to track results to see "what worked" and "what didn't work" but if you set that up as a secondary question to something like "How many new 'tests' did I set up today"? my guess is you'll start heading into a different mindset.

      There is a book with a great title called "Fail Forward" and if you look at the flip side of Eben's 20% another question you can ask yourself is "How fast can I fail at the 80% to get to the 20%?"

      Also, be careful of advice like "track everything". In principal it's sound advice, but again it could put you in the wrong mindset and may possibly lead you to think, "I'm just not tracking as much as I could have" instead of celebrating the fact that maybe you "tracked 3 new aspects of your website or business" today.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1108951].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author edmltw
    Bro.. Hi Five~!

    I still suck and i am still trying to improve myself.

    Quote that i stick to:
    "There are no shortcuts to any place worth going"

    I believe in Internet marketing, so therefore no matter how much failures i am experiencing now, i believe there is a greater goal for me to achieve when i will finally reach it.

    Good luck bro, lets attain our goals together!

    Regards,
    Edmund
    Signature

    Need A Easy, Drag and Drop Website Creation Platform?
    Click Here To Find Out More

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1108989].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Miedema
    I'm happy that I started this topic, because I'm seeing a lot of eye openers and see that I've helped others in the process

    I'd like to give you guys a quick overview of what I've done/am trying to do:

    I don't know if anyone here knows who Brian Tracy is, but he created The Psychology Of Achievement. In it, he describes several exercises (affirmations and visualization) to program positive habit patterns into your mind...and I've been noticing effects. To give an example:

    I've started a promotion where I give away a free DVD to get people's home address because emails change 4 times a year on average and real life addresses DON'T...and so I can promote via mail instead of E-mail..and here's the funny thing: I sent out the first batch, and it was only when I wanted to sent out the second batch that I realized...wait a minute...how much do those envelopes weigh? Surely it can't be below 20 grams...

    Results: sent out 5 DVDs that will probably never end up being on somebody's doormat, but instead of freaking out? I simply uploaded the video content to my site, created a funny email with lots of personality and sent that out with a "haven't gotten your DVD yet? here's a download link in case your mail man is a douche " kind of mindset. Problem solved, no negativity.

    Here's another example:

    I wrote my first sales letter and thought it would make me a billionaire, off course it didn't...IM is a serious business just like anything else is, so I rewrote it. And rewrote it another time, still no luck. Result: I outsourced it to a pretty friggin good copywriter yesterday because that's what my business needs right now: proof of concept. No more pain in the but letters for me, because I never liked writing them anyways and I'm willing to bet that this guy can sell way more than I do...he's got 20 years of experience, I don't. Duhh.

    And about that whole information overload stuff that almost every internet marketer is suffering from: no more. I changed my approach to learning from just in case to just in time. If my business needs scale, I'll learn about outsourcing. If my business needs email marketin, I'll ask the writer to improve the emails. But Im not learning about "mergers and acquisition" type advanced level stuff while my business isn't even there yet. Solution: I found one guru who answered a lot of my questions, and Im sticking to this cat. No other stuff but this one...because now there's way less confusion, where do I need to go to..., time waste etc. Result: Im much more focused now.

    THE END RESULT: I know seriously DON'T have something to do anymore several times a week...and not because Im lazy, but because it's either done FOR me or because I know long term strategy beats gold rush instant money making tactics any day ;-)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1109728].message }}

Trending Topics