Ethics in IM. How do you sell at all? HELP!

by disi
25 replies
Guys, I have noticed that I have some 'mind' problems when it comes to selling anything. It's about ethics and I need your help.

Are you 100% sure that the products you promote always have ANY value? Sometimes when I look at the market it looks like 98% of products is just a crap...ebooks like "How to scratch your head - new techniques!" or "How to get up from the bed and do nothing report". Personally I have difficulties in promoting something that I am pretty sure does not work at all!

I will give you example. I am forex trader and coach. On PDC and CB I see tons of 'forex robots'. These are programs that show us where to buy and sell and they are supposed to earn $ 40,000 monthly or something.

Now-as a guy with +10 years of trading experience I KNOW that all of those products(at least 98%) are scam! You would not sell a system that earns you on forex this money! Best traders in the world make %20-%50 of revenue per year!

But someone is selling such products. How do you deal with it? Is it only about "sell and forget"? How do you motivate yourself for selling something that may not have any value? I feel like I am "cheating" on buyers whch prevents me from acting with my full potential!

This is serious question and I need your help! Do not be affreid to tell how you deal with it and what is your "mind model" for selling. I would really like to sell 'anything to anyone' but somehow I feel like I am doing something wrong...
#ethic #ethics #sell
  • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
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    • Profile picture of the author disi
      Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

      Don't sell crap. It really is that easy. There are so many products that you can sell and it's entirely up to you which ones you choose to promote. If you think 98% are garbage, then sell the other 2%.

      I'm sorry but I don't see the dilemma here.

      Tina
      Well, somebody else is selling that 98% and many of them earn! So what I am wondering is how their 'model' of work looks like. How do they 'explain' this all to themselves? Or they don't? This is what I am interested in - the way people deall with 'ethics'.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
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        • Profile picture of the author disi
          Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

          You cannot worry about other people's ethics, only your own. Some people will do anything for a buck but asking if it bothers their conscience won't get you very far. You'll get a myriad of excuses or so-called reasons but none of that matters. You have to deal with your conscience.

          Tina
          Thanks Tina. I think I know where I did not myself clear enough. I am not worried about them. I am just cuirous 'how they do it'. I don't blame them I would just like to incorporate their 'believes'...maybe I can think their way too?

          Someone wrote here that 'marketing is about making money'. Sounds good. Again - I am not trying to blame anyone! I would just like to know how other people look at IM.

          'Is it only about selling?'(no mater what and no matter to whom)
          'If they buy it they can have it?'

          There is so many marketers - many of them must be selling c**ap. How should I think abot marketing to be a bit more like them?!

          How do you all guys look at IM? What is your 'believe' about what you do?(it this is not too deep question)
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  • Profile picture of the author Jack Doug
    Can we don't care about ethics? IM is all about making money!
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    • Profile picture of the author disi
      Originally Posted by Jack Doug View Post

      Can we don't care about ethics? IM is all about making money!
      Ok - this is example of what I wanted to hear. So one solution is to 'not worry' about buyers and focus only on our own business and money we get(no matter how we get it). I understand it.

      What else? Any ideas?
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
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        • Profile picture of the author disi
          Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

          Why on earth would you want to dull your conscience to be more like the "anything for money" crowd?

          Tina
          I don't know. I have that kind of 'guilt' feeling that I am selling to people something that they actually do not need and the only reason they buy it is because I had great copy and promised them things which are not true.(i have their money and they have empty promises)

          I know it is silly. I am smart man and I can see that this can be source of difficulties for me. So I want to get rid off it. This feeling of guilt stops me from doing 'big things'.

          Eban Pagan would say that I have 'deep inner problem' I would really, really like to start selling things and do not think about whether I harm people or not! I know this is silly thing...aghh!

          I run internet business for few years now. It was all good(very good!) until I came to conclusion that I earn while my clients lose money. This is deep stuff...Unconsciously I made that business lose clients and go down and down each year. Now I want to enter IM market but this thing is still there in me!

          Any idea how to get rid off that? Are there any programs, books on it? The only solution is to sell things that I know work. But I want more. I want to be like "rest" of marketers/sales people!
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  • Profile picture of the author txconx
    Here's how I look at it... Google Adsense is easy to put on your site but quite frankly, there are as many crappy products being sold that way as there are at places like Clickbank. If you put Adsense on your site, you might as well go find what you feel is the least scammy product and put that up and promote it, as well. If there are **** berry ads showing up in the Adsense block on your weight loss niche site, what's the hesitation about promoting an e-book on weight loss, even if you feel it's not really worth much to the buyer?

    This dilemma isn't limited to IM - it's true in any business. My former business is a wasteland of lies to clients and ambiguous billing methods that make it sound like one person is charging less than another, when actually they charge more. They take advantage of client ignorance. I had issues with that, as well. As one salesperson told me - you can ride a high horse or you can make money. And one guy I worked for told the operations team that lying is part of a salesperson's job and that operations wasn't expected to fulfill all the promises made to make the sale. I don't see much different in this business.

    You have to do what you're comfortable doing. Pick the offers you feel are most credible and promote them, or write your own (assuming you think you can come up with something on your own that will provide more value than what's already available). In my experience, if you aren't careful about what you promote, you'll lose sales anyway because people will ask for a refund.
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    • Profile picture of the author disi
      Originally Posted by txconx View Post

      If there are **** berry ads showing up in the Adsense block on your weight loss niche site, what's the hesitation about promoting an e-book on weight loss, even if you feel it's not really worth much to the buyer?
      When I have advertisement of some crappy things on my website that is not that much problem. But when I try to sell it, make a great sales page or put my name behind it then it 'starts'.

      This dilemma isn't limited to IM - it's true in any business. My former business is a wasteland of lies to clients and ambiguous billing methods that make it sound like one person is charging less than another, when actually they charge more. They take advantage of client ignorance. I had issues with that, as well. As one salesperson told me - you can ride a high horse or you can make money. And one guy I worked for told the operations team that lying is part of a salesperson's job and that operations wasn't expected to fulfill all the promises made to make the sale. I don't see much different in this business.

      You have to do what you're comfortable doing. Pick the offers you feel are most credible and promote them, or write your own (assuming you think you can come up with something on your own that will provide more value than what's already available). In my experience, if you aren't careful about what you promote, you'll lose sales anyway because people will ask for a refund.
      Good post. I want to clarify something - I am aware that it is limitation. Deep inside I feel that if I want to succeed I need to be like 'all the rest' and don't care about what happens to people who by from me.
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      • Profile picture of the author Aronya
        So, you want to become an immoral, unscrupulous, uncaring scumbag, with no conscience or ethics? Go sell used cars. You'll learn very quickly what it takes.
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        • Profile picture of the author disi
          Originally Posted by Aronya View Post

          So, you want to become an immoral, unscrupulous, uncaring scumbag, with no conscience or ethics? Go sell used cars. You'll learn very quickly what it takes.
          What do you suggest? That all marketers are morral? Are you 100% satisfied with each IM product that you bought? Honestly...
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          • Profile picture of the author Aronya
            I didn't comment about marketers. You did.

            You said you want to stop caring about whether or not what you sell to people will help them.
            Deep inside I feel that if I want to succeed I need to be like 'all the rest' and don't care about what happens to people who by from me.
            I told you how to achieve that goal. Stop being disingenuous.
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            • Profile picture of the author disi
              Originally Posted by Aronya View Post

              I didn't comment about marketers. You did.
              Well, you wrote "so you want to become immoral"... I don't remember saying that. All I want is to stop carrying that much about what I sell/write on my page. I really care very much(I over do it!) and this is big problem for any salesman/marketer. How can I succeed this way? Should I write on my website "I sell it to you but watch out-to be honest it will not give you results author promises to you! But buy it please!". Do you get me?

              I asked about other marketers because from your answer it looks like all marketers are morral and I am that one exception who wants to be immoral - which is not true. It's not about other marketers but about my problem with explaining to myself benefits that go to buyers with products that I sell. I would like to separate it...separate process of selling/marketing from all those my 'mind games'.

              I would like to be bit more 'like them' which does not mean I want to sell crap. I would like to use great copy but sometmes I feel that even copies are a bit 'immoral' as they 'force' people to buy products that they really do not need.

              Anyway thanks for trying to help.
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      • Profile picture of the author txconx
        Originally Posted by disi View Post

        Good post. I want to clarify something - I am aware that it is limitation. Deep inside I feel that if I want to succeed I need to be like 'all the rest' and don't care about what happens to people who by from me.
        Call me a capitalist pig, but "let the buyer beware." I started out as a domainer and it took me an unbelievably long time to "get" monetization because I never click on ads and the only time I buy from a sales pitch page is if I was already interested. If I hit one by accident, I'm out of there before I read the first sentence. For the record, TV sales pitches ala Billy Mays and Shamwow don't entice me to buy, either. And I don't watch QVC.

        It finally hit me that the reason there are landing pages, parked pages, squeeze pages, etc. is because they WORK. I figure the same people who are clicking and buying are the ones sending gold by mail and running down to the "check for cash" place.

        Right now, I don't do sales pages. I have web sites with information and articles, ads and featured products. If someone clicks on a featured product, they get someone else's sales page - after that, they're on their own. If they buy it, I get an affiliate share. I don't lie - I don't say I've used the products or I have the same problem they do and can feel their pain. I have a couple credit repair sites that contain articles with essentially the exact same information being sold in the featured e-books - not my problem if people would rather buy the e-book than read the articles and figure it out. Some people WANT someone to give them "5 steps to financial stability!" or "10 steps to permanent weight loss!" They know what they need to do - buying something that tells them how to do it is their way of doing something.

        C'mon - does anyone here REALLY believe your sales page is so good that it's selling people something they didn't already want to buy?
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        • Profile picture of the author disi
          Originally Posted by txconx View Post

          It finally hit me that the reason there are landing pages, parked pages, squeeze pages, etc. is because they WORK. I figure the same people who are clicking and buying are the ones sending gold by mail and running down to the "check for cash" place.
          Very true. I also think that way that if someone does it there 'may' be something in it. That is also why I started this thread because deep inside I feel that my attitude is wrong for a marketer. I really should not worry as THAt much. I mean people love to buy. They buy dreams. But still it is a bit tricky thing for me to let go of those stupid thoughts.


          C'mon - does anyone here REALLY believe your sales page is so good that it's selling people something they didn't already want to buy?
          I have no sales page yet. I have a website with my 'old' business but it is 'traditional' website where there is offer, many pages etc. Almost no copy-only information on my offer, maybe some benefits(real) in few places.

          As I wrote I am trying to enter IM market. I have own product on my mind but I was also looking for affiliate opportunities. And it did strike me how many of products that I can sell as affiliate are really not worth the price(example with those forex robots which clearly don't work-but all marketers write in copy about massive gains...bla bla.). But on the other hand-who am I to judge what 'real' value they have? I even don't see those buyers! And still I am trying hard to get rid off those thoughts.

          The best thing that comes to my mind and allows me to be calm is this 'theory' of mine:

          People are 'buying machines'. We constantly buy something and most of the things are those that we really don't need. If they don't buy from me they will buy from someone else-right? So why I should allow other people to earn? This is the most 'ethical' explanation that I can serve to myself. I was wondering if other marketer have other thought similar to this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mukul Verma
    There is a solution to this and I personally liked it and am doing it for my new WSO coming up. A lawyerhere on Warrior Forum named Brian Kindsvater looked at my personal accounts and verified that the info I was giving is accurate (in my case that my commercial video got over 1 million views). He then gives you a Warrior Verified Seal, soo not it is legal. You can see it at Mukul Verma is Warrior Verified

    Thanks,
    Mukul
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    • Profile picture of the author disi
      Originally Posted by Mukul Verma View Post

      There is a solution to this and I personally liked it and am doing it for my new WSO coming up. A lawyerhere on Warrior Forum named Brian Kindsvater looked at my personal accounts and verified that the info I was giving is accurate (in my case that my commercial video got over 1 million views). He then gives you a Warrior Verified Seal, soo not it is legal. You can see it at Mukul Verma is Warrior Verified

      Thanks,
      Mukul
      Thanks for info. Yeah-this is some kind of good idea!
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  • Profile picture of the author Versus
    I look at it like this. The ones selling off products that we all know are ****, but the general consumer might not - also more than likely lie about the money they make.

    The successful IM'ers either:

    sell their own product
    test the product before purchasing

    Goodluck in your quest =]
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  • Profile picture of the author tommygunn
    Everyone has their own ethics to live up to. I believe if you go against your own ethics, you may make some money doing it, but it always comes back to bite you. I don't believe its anything superstitious, it comes form within.
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  • Profile picture of the author maesil
    I bet at least 25% of the questions in this section of the warrior forums are answered in a product's link I want to post. Just as soon as I have 15 posts, I will be able to post it. If you'd like to link or would like to become an affiliate shoot me a quick email at drinkmaesil@gmail com.
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    • Profile picture of the author rouse9
      I have a very simple but effective suggestion. Get a free copy of the "Science of Getting Rich"
      it has helped me to understand some very basic mindset principles.
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  • Profile picture of the author ScottieScott
    The key is to find something that YOU believe in. I think the dilema you have is that you see people selling things that they may or may not believe in so they can make a dollar or two.

    I think that there are many systems out there that work, it is the purchaser that doesn't take any action. It takes more than just buying a work plan or business model to make money.

    Think about buying a gas station. You buy the station and stock the shelves, but don't put any gas in your tanks, lock the doors, and don't have any cashiers. How much will you make?

    Sure there are some products that don't work for everyone, even with 100% effort, just as there are brick and mortor businesses that fail - but typically there is a 100% money back guarantee on a program/e-book/business plan you buy.

    Sell what you believe in and offer a 100% guarantee. Many will buy, a few will give 100% effort and succeed, most will not try very hard and fail, and there will be the occasional refund for those who don't put out the effort.

    Just my $0.02

    Scott
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