Trial by fire or a Guru to show you the way?

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Some say you need to be naturally determined and learn from failures in order to forge your own success while others claim you need to follow and emulate the mentoring and coaching of an expert that has been knowledge and experience in order to obtain success. Which is correct?
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    In my experience, most who are quick to tell you what you should do....haven't done it.
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  • Profile picture of the author jmosticc22
    I don't know what is correct but it is my opinion that everybody needs both. You need someone to lead you but you still have to forge your own path.
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  • Profile picture of the author King Manu
    Gathering all the information you can gives you an advantage and makes the time to get there shorter, but rest assured, you still need to make it happen.

    Nothing comes easy and fast, and if someone would have a secret for riches, they wouldn't sell it.

    Valuable information usually comes from people that don't try to fake you away and that honor the struggle. Someone that tries to sell you on the idea that it's easy, it's simply trying to capitalize on the naivity of people that believe those fairy tales.

    So, I guess, having the proper guidance is better than having no guidance at all, but you can still get there by yourself if you want.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Originally Posted by kayolhope View Post

    Some say you need to be naturally determined and learn from failures in order to forge your own success while others claim you need to follow and emulate the mentoring and coaching of an expert that has been knowledge and experience in order to obtain success. Which is correct?
    98 percent of what you are trying to do ..other people have done ..so getting advice from those who have done what you are trying to do.. or paying for their coaching..

    a majority of the time you only need a few minute or a short conversation with a mentor type or to read instructions they have already put in writing and made available . more than that..you either should be working for the mentor or paying for coaching .

    now the fire part comes in when you try to follow instruction or do what people say you should do.. and make the mistakes along the way..without needing your hand held along the way .

    ok .. to simply my answer .. what are you trying to do .. to be successful at.. open google or you tube and type in how to and that thing you want to do..

    then read or watch as much free information as you can before you try something ..
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    "I just wanted a good job ,but i could not find a good job, So i do it myself"-Jack Ma

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  • All I know is, I jus' carbonized another pizza.

    Prolly I should be smarter bcs the frickin' packagin' BLAMMOs solutions direct to my way stoopid tits, but hey -- ima immaculately fallible that way, curse Moi.

    So now I eatin' a SANDWICH.

    Want MARKETIN' EXOTICA from offa this plain & sweet IRL example?

    tbh what I chompin' tastes like shit.

    Whaaaat am I thinkin'?

    CHEESE plus sumthin' REALLY SO DON'T GO WITH CHEESE ...

    like whatevah this stoopid stuff I whackoed between this bread stuff actschwly IS?

    Mebbe ima on a DEATH WISH TICKET tryna be so goddamn entreprenoorial on a LIFE AFTER CARBONIZED PIZZA via uhm... ah ... uhm ... bread an' whatevah scenariocraft thing.

    Or mebbe I should jus' call up the pizza guys an' say HEY YOU WANT ME TO WRITE OUT YOUR HOW TO STUFF SO DUMBSHITS LIKE MOI DON'T GET TO BE SUCH DUMBSHITS?


    That ansa your question, OP, or do we gotta summon an EXPOIT?


    Way convinced by this post that Princess Balestra is precisely the gooroo you need to max solutions so downhome on your ass you'll walk out forevah into the fyooture as sum kinda PROCREATIVE DEITY gonna LOFT YOUR SHIT beyond THE STRATOSPHERE while simultaneously MAKIN' IT EASY for EVRYWAN TO REACH OUT AN' CATCH IT? Or is it way past yr frickin' bedtime?
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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff together.

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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Yeah similar to jmosticc, I think you need both. (Even with all the guidance/advice/etc. from an Expert/Guru, you still need to be determined and -- many times -- learn from your mistakes/"failures". )

    Great question though. : )
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    "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    Originally Posted by kayolhope View Post

    Some say you need to be naturally determined and learn from failures in order to forge your own success while others claim you need to follow and emulate the mentoring and coaching of an expert that has been knowledge and experience in order to obtain success. Which is correct?
    Which is correct? Left or right yellow brick road? Irony is Dorothy and the gang running through the fields off the ybr once she sees Oz.

    If you believe you can do what someone else has done and if you follow their plan, blueprint, or method you will get the same results, you may be doomed from the start.

    You are an individual, one who apparently has not found her self yet.

    But first thing, is you must define success. What does it mean to YOU? How much money or free time, or travel, or people in your life

    what is YOUR measure of success?

    Because until you define your success, then all the advice in the world and all the mentors, gurus, and the "do it my way" guys you find are going to lead you right back to the start.

    Once you know what your success will look like, by your own definition THEN you can seek a way to get there. Any maps you buy now, will more than likely keep you going in circles around the mountain of this guru or that one.

    GordonJ
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    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
      Good advice Gordon. That's one of the strongest "Selling Points." AKA: "Just follow my easy system and you will succeed." And although I believe many of these products (etc.) can speed up the process ― ultimately a Person's success is their responsibility ...

      And many paths are slightly different.
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      "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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  • Originally Posted by kayolhope View Post

    Some say you need to be naturally determined and learn from failures in order to forge your own success while others claim you need to follow and emulate the mentoring and coaching of an expert that has been knowledge and experience in order to obtain success. Which is correct?
    Here are the problems with both paths:

    Naturally determined only. It could take you years to stumble onto something that really works well enough to be profitable. That's the negative. On the other hand, you'll get a real feeling for your business, and you'll experience what doesn't work. This is assuming you give it a real effort over a long period of time.

    Mentors and coaches only. Some are fakes. And when you are new, you can't tell the difference. And if you are a rank beginner, no matter how good the mentor is, they can't do everything for you...and you'll still make mistakes serious enough to kill any chance of a profit. And...you are spending money, without making money.

    I can only tell you what I did. I read books (remember those?) while building my business. The reason that worked, is that I could apply what I learned the next day, and I progressively had a batter grasp of what would work, and what wouldn't.

    It took me two solid years of daily study and weekly advertising...before my advertising started showing a profit. And I'm not a dim bulb. It took at least two years of daily study and daily selling...before I started making any real progress as a salesperson.

    So...factor in that it will take serious study...and at the same time, serious practice and attempts at building your business. And an amount of time that the vast majority of people will never complete.

    That's why most people aren't wealthy in their business.

    A little side note. I know several people that spend a thousand dollars or more a month for a good mentor. And you you know what they are getting? Hand holding mostly. A pep rally once a year.

    Want everything a great mentor can give you (except hugs) for almost no money? Buy Kindle books that are very current, and well reviewed on your business subject. A dozen should do it. Just go to Amazon.com and get started. For less than $50, you'll know more than just about any mentor.

    A word about mentors. Most are not in a real business of their own. In other words....

    You want to know how to open a locksmith shop, and want a mentor. Go to the guy in person that has the most profitable lock smith shop within driving distance. Work for them for 6 months. You'll make money, and learn everything you need to know.

    And most of all, you'll learn if you really want to be a locksmith. One thing you do not want to do, is learn how to be a locksmith from someone who used to be a locksmith...and it wasn't profitable enough to keep open, and they decided to share the "secrets of their success".

    You can apply that to just about any business, even selling local online services.
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      H

      A word about mentors. Most are not in a real business of their own. In other words....

      You want to know how to open a locksmith shop, and want a mentor. Go to the guy in person that has the most profitable lock smith shop within driving distance. Work for them for 6 months. You'll make money, and learn everything you need to know.

      And most of all, you'll learn if you really want to be a locksmith. One thing you do not want to do, is learn how to be a locksmith from someone who used to be a locksmith...and it wasn't profitable enough to keep open, and they decided to share the "secrets of their success".

      You can apply that to just about any business, even selling local online services.
      if someone is looking for a mentor to do hand holding.. then yest they need to work for the mentor and make that mentor money as an apprentice employee.. there is coaching as you mentions where people pay the coach /slash mentor money on a regular basis ..

      and there is very short term interaction that can be hours or weeks or days ..

      when i bought the hangover costume or more so work in the hangover costume and made money to buy it from the guy who put it together .. i worked with him doing it for a day and part of a second day and .. we both relized i did just as well on my own as with him and another person .. so i worked on my own from then on basically..and paid for the costume in a few days and got money for rent and so on ..

      supported myself for well over a year doing that until vegas hanges the rules on the strip and my money plummeted to nothing in a few months .. the mentor had left vegas right after i bought the costume from him .. he was tired of the stress of trying to get people to work in costumes .. which is why he was selling .

      I learned a lot in the year and a half doing that though ..but i have had several other show me the ropes type mentors .. never really went for coaching .

      but also there is so much good information available now .. that is well reviewed and recommended ..to learn many skills .. and anyone without business experience .. is probably better starting something small and learning skills along the way ..


      as you point out many of these skills actually take years of study to pay off ..i mean years of study and practice aka trial by fire . and you can probably only shortcut it if you are talented and work for someone who gets on your but to make as much money from developing your skills to profit their businesses ..
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      "I just wanted a good job ,but i could not find a good job, So i do it myself"-Jack Ma

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  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    Here are the problems with both paths:

    Naturally determined only. It could take you years to stumble onto something that really works well enough to be profitable. That's the negative. On the other hand, you'll get a real feeling for your business, and you'll experience what doesn't work. This is assuming you give it a real effort over a long period of time.

    Mentors and coaches only. Some are fakes. And when you are new, you can't tell the difference. And if you are a rank beginner, no matter how good the mentor is, they can't do everything for you...and you'll still make mistakes serious enough to kill any chance of a profit. And...you are spending money, without making money.
    Yes, exactly!

    It took me a good 10 years online to find something has has real potential.

    One free guru offered sound advise that l still use, and others that l looked into were outright scammers.

    An example of this was a high pressure sales pitch on a YT video l saw on stockmarket trading.

    Seemed ok initially, but after reading about others reviews, phew, more like Amway on steriods.

    They offered a free seminar, with the study aspect costing 5k, (or 1, 2 k for the first suck,...10 people who signed up on the spot).

    The training wasn't any better than googling it online, and the further 25k, so you could trade on their computers for a modest advantage in stock price options, well, maybe good maybe not.

    But them telling members who barely completed the training, and just started trading, to pester all of their friends and family for cash, since they were supposedly a professional was getting close to a jail term.

    It took me a good part of a year to get the hang of it, and to show a profit.

    Trading is like holding the devil by the tail, if you do enough research and have enough experience, then he will rarely bite.

    Don't and he will turn around and bite your head off.

    Mentors and coaches, - yes, most are fakes, or most became successful in a way that cannot be replicated, so they push techniques that can be used when you are reasonably successful or spout random examples of the next big idea, and people take them seriously since they are wealthy, (wealthy through something that doesn't work anymore).

    Someone asked about one recently, and l found an article here, in 2011 about someone who bought some of his stuff, and yeah, no substance, and useless platitudes back then.

    And from what l can see more of the same now.

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  • Profile picture of the author cearionmarie
    Both can be correct depending if certain conditions are met. There's no replacement for first-hand experience but if you can learn from the failures of others and make it from there, then that's also smart.
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    Cearion Uy - Marketing Advisor
    www.influencerauditor.com

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