Your Skill Level = Your Success Rate

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Imagine two people:

Person A works at a hamburger place and flips burgers for living.

Person B works as a brain surgeon at a hospital.

Who earns more?

Why does one person earn more?

It's because one has a more complex skill than the other one.

Person B spent thousands of hours of learning a new skill, how to operate a brain of a human being.

Person A spent maybe 1 hour to operate all the machines in the kitchen (you get the idea).

You get paid in proportion to your skill level.

One very profitable skill level that will ALWAYS be in demand "How to more customers for your clients". That is a complex topic, but can be quite lucrative.
#level #rate #skill #success
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    Originally Posted by Mr_Lauri View Post

    Why does one person earn more?

    It's because one has a more complex skill than the other one.
    You're missing the point. It's not the complexity of the skill, it's the value of that skill or commodity to the market. In a famine, the burger seller could name his own price.

    The entertainment industry is awash with hugely talented musicians who earn a fraction of their less skillful but more commercially acceptable peers. In publishing, Dan Brown, for example, outsells countless better writers. People, in general, don't buy because of any perceived skill complexity. A brain surgeon might be well paid, but it's a specialist niche and usually only called upon in life or death situations. Even then, no surgeon earns as much as Beyoncé.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr_Lauri
      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      You're missing the point. It's not the complexity of the skill, it's the value of that skill or commodity to the market. In a famine, the burger seller could name his own price.

      The entertainment industry is awash with hugely talented musicians who earn a fraction of their less skillful but more commercially acceptable peers. In publishing, Dan Brown, for example, outsells countless better writers. People, in general, don't buy because of any perceived skill complexity. A brain surgeon might be well paid, but it's a specialist niche and usually only called upon in life or death situations. Even then, no surgeon earns as much as Beyoncé.
      You're totally missing the point!

      If you compare a VA who is paid to fill forms online versus a person who is consulting fortune 500 companies on how they should conduct their businesses... Who would be paid more? Who's job is more complex?
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      • Profile picture of the author DABK
        I think you missed the point.


        I can be a surgeon who does VA work and I will not get paid more than a few dollars an hour.


        You have to have skills, you do not have to be the best at your skills (you have to be great at marketing your skills, asking for a higher amount).



        I had a real estate appraising company once. I was great at appraising and my appraisers were average to good. No matter who did the appraisal, I charged $300 for a basic one, and hundreds more for complex ones. I paid the best appraiser better than the others, but that's not the point of this.


        The point of this, there were appraisers much better than me and my appraisers (they had done it longer and learned from first hand experience and they took more courses, passed more exams). They could only get $250 for a basic appraisal.


        I once appraised a property for which I charged $1200, another appraiser did the one next door (identical properties appraised at the same time... well.. 2 weeks or so apart). He charged $600.


        It was not skill that got me more money, it was nerve and willingness to not take the job.


        Women in the US get paid some 70 cents for every dollar a man in the same position with the same qualifications gets. Not because they lack skill but because their naughty bits are different.


        Teachers in the US make some 30% less than similarly qualified people in other professions.


        A good teacher in a big city, say Chicago, public schools is going to make more than a bad one but less than an average one who works in one of the rich suburbs of Chicago, by much.


        Football players in US make a lot more than most other professions, say mechanical engineers, because they are in a market where the buyers are willing to pay a lot, not because they are that much better than engineers.


        You might not have paid much attention, but Adam Sandler makes a lot more money than the best Shakespeare actor.



        Originally Posted by Mr_Lauri View Post

        You're totally missing the point!

        If you compare a VA who is paid to fill forms online versus a person who is consulting fortune 500 companies on how they should conduct their businesses... Who would be paid more? Who's job is more complex?
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by DABK View Post

          I think you missed the point.

          You might not have paid much attention, but Adam Sandler makes a lot more money than the best Shakespeare actor.
          DABK, I find myself often in agreement with you...

          HOWEVER,

          Your implication that Sir Adam Sandler is anything less than the GOAT, the Greatest Actor of our generation, is...

          well, simply outrageous.

          As much as he has been paid, I would have to say, he was grossly underpaid for his skills, so maybe in this case, OP has a point

          GordonJ
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          • Profile picture of the author DABK
            I put Daniel Day-Lewis above Sandler when it comes to skills. But Day-Lewis is paid less.


            Here's a list of highly paid actors: https://www.forbes.com/sites/maddieb.../#57aa4762b968


            Notice that your fave is not at the top. So, the market says his skills are inferior to the one at the top by 6 million?


            Anyway, I am deeply sorry I displeased you and go commit seppuku this very instant.



            Ta-ta and good-bye, cruel world, and all that.



            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            DABK, I find myself often in agreement with you...

            HOWEVER,

            Your implication that Sir Adam Sandler is anything less than the GOAT, the Greatest Actor of our generation, is...

            well, simply outrageous.

            As much as he has been paid, I would have to say, he was grossly underpaid for his skills, so maybe in this case, OP has a point

            GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by Mr_Lauri View Post

        You're totally missing the point!

        If you compare a VA who is paid to fill forms online versus a person who is consulting fortune 500 companies on how they should conduct their businesses... Who would be paid more? Who's job is more complex?
        Well I'm pretty sure not all VA make the same amount of money per hour .. so you compare the VAs to other VAs

        There are a small number of people who are even able to become nuro surgeons and a very large number of filtering system to reduced the number even more because how many new nuro surgeons are needed every year or how many positions available .

        Ok I am big on valuable skill sets to run your own business.

        But as you get Into highly refined skills that take years and lots of training and acredidation . Most of the time people stay employees
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      You're missing the point. It's not the complexity of the skill, it's the value of that skill or commodity to the market. In a famine, the burger seller could name his own price.
      You beat me to it. Yup, we are compensated for the value we bring to the marketplace.

      The world is awash with highly skilled poor people. And it's also awash with mediocre performers who know how to sell their skill.

      It's also populated with people that are paid on some criteria other than skill level; celebrity, political position, social position, timing, who they know or are related to.....

      We are compensated depending on what society is willing to pay for what we contribute.

      As the most skilled bloviator alive, I stand by my position on this matter.
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  • Profile picture of the author Donald Faulknor
    I agree with Frank Donovan. If there's a food shortage and a lot of starving people, he may be able to charge more for a hamburger than the brain surgeon for brain surgery.

    Let's not forget though, McDonald's employees want to increase minimum wage to $15 an hour. - just thought I'd mention that lol
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    • Profile picture of the author Obscuram
      Sadly, $15 an hour minimum wage does not cover the cost of living in Los Angeles, and McDonald's is charging high prices for whats now basically a microwaved burger. #cringe
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      • Profile picture of the author Donald Faulknor
        Yea, but McDonald's doesn't deserve $15. Want paid more? Get a better skill. Anyone can learn how to close a lid and press a button. They don't even have to learn how to cook a hamburger, the machine does it automatically for the exact amount of time. McDonald's is perhaps one of the EASIEST jobs in the world to do. Not to mention, if minimum wage increased to $15 an hour, then you would need $25 an hour to live a low class life. That's common sense. And basic economy.
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Originally Posted by Donald Faulknor View Post

          Yea, but McDonald's doesn't deserve $15. Want paid more? Get a better skill. Anyone can learn how to close a lid and press a button. They don't even have to learn how to cook a hamburger, the machine does it automatically for the exact amount of time. McDonald's is perhaps one of the EASIEST jobs in the world to do. Not to mention, if minimum wage increased to $15 an hour, then you would need $25 an hour to live a low class life. That's common sense. And basic economy.
          "Basic economy" is supplying a product or service that meets the demands of a market. And just because a job is easy to do, doesn't mean the employees don't already have skills in other areas - just that they're unable to put those skills to a more profitable use.

          In the UK, the Institute for Public Policy Research estimated that in 2016, around 18% of the total workforce were overqualified for the work they were doing. ( https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...our-job-skills ) If you're going to spend time, effort and money acquiring a skill to achieve "success", you'd better make sure that skill helps you fulfill an existing need or desire and is valued accordingly by the market.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
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          • Profile picture of the author Skywriting
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            In fact, the only trouble I could see with the higher minimum wage would be the people already getting $20 an hour...demanding more, because of their perceived inequality in pay.
            I don't think they would complain that minimum wage increased.
            Likely their kids would benefit and leave home before 30.
            Everyone wins.
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          • Profile picture of the author Donald Faulknor
            Doubling minimum wage wouldn't increase a hamburger 25 cents. It would increase a $2 hamburger to over $4. Because they have to account for the employees making them, the employees running the cash register, the cleaning employees, the managers and other employees making over $15 that got a "convenience raise" to make it "fair" - I've had that raise at Walmart when minimum wage increased. The truck drivers delivering the food. The extra electric bills because now electric company employees make more too. Extra water bills. Extra landscaping expense. Extra worker's comp (which is literally based on wages, higher wages = higher worker's comp). Literally EVERY SINGLE THING IN THE COUNTRY increases when minimum wage increases. And all these other expenses, are calculated into the price of a hamburger. That's just one perspective. Rent goes WAY up because the landlord has higher expenses ALL around too. Landscaping, heating/ac maintenance, increased postage, higher cost of printing for your lease/contract. When minimum wage goes up, nearly everything goes up. And when everything goes up, it has to go up a lot to cover the expenses that went up that account for the price of everything. So, you're right... things don't double if minimum wage doubles... they MORE than double. That's why, it was easy for a one income household to survive on $4.75 minimum wage. But it's not now that minimum wage is higher.
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      • Profile picture of the author Skywriting
        Originally Posted by Obscuram View Post

        Sadly, $15 an hour minimum wage does not cover the cost of living in Los Angeles, and McDonald's is charging high prices for whats now basically a microwaved burger. #cringe

        Burger King used to reheat with Microwaves. McDonalds has new warming trays to keep everything toasty and quick to assemble.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rchristifulli
    I disagree. I guarantee you the brain surgeon spent way more time and money learning his skill. Yet, he doesn't bring in the same revenue as myself. A homeschooler who started an agency/saas.

    It's about the value and scalability of a skill.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr_Lauri
      Originally Posted by Rchristifulli View Post

      I disagree. I guarantee you the brain surgeon spent way more time and money learning his skill. Yet, he doesn't bring in the same revenue as myself. A homeschooler who started an agency/saas.

      It's about the value and scalability of a skill.
      What do you exactly disagree about?

      I wrote "You get paid in proportion to your skill level."

      If I would have typed Person B is "Ross the homeschooler who started an agency"

      Did you spend more time learning how to run your agency / saas than the hamburger flipper who learned his skill in 1 hour?

      Of course you did. So you have more skills than the hamburger flipper.

      If you missed the headline of this thread: Your Skill Level = Your Success Rate
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      • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
        [QUOTE=Mr_Lauri;11559109]

        Did you spend more time learning how to run your agency / saas than the hamburger flipper who learned his skill in 1 hour? /QUOTE]

        Have you ever worked at McDonalds ? I doubt they take a kid off the street and throw them behind the counter flipping burgers that fast. Most likely with the systems McDonalds has in place, plus teaching them food safety and all the other stuff probably takes more than a 1hour. Also there are a lot of Hamburger Flippers as you call them that went on to one day own their own McD's franchise if not more.
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        • Profile picture of the author Donald Faulknor
          Things have definitely changed since I worked at McDonald's. I know about the food safety and OSHA requirements, but when I worked at McDonald's, it probably was only an hour of training and they didn't train me about food safety then. Training consisted of, "wear gloves, throw hamburgers that fell on the floor in the garbage, mark the waste in this book". lol
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  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    Originally Posted by Mr_Lauri View Post

    Imagine two people:

    Person A works at a hamburger place and flips burgers for living.

    Person B works as a brain surgeon at a hospital.

    Who earns more?

    Why does one person earn more?

    It's because one has a more complex skill than the other one.

    Person B spent thousands of hours of learning a new skill, how to operate a brain of a human being.

    Person A spent maybe 1 hour to operate all the machines in the kitchen (you get the idea).

    You get paid in proportion to your skill level.

    One very profitable skill level that will ALWAYS be in demand "How to more customers for your clients". That is a complex topic, but can be quite lucrative.
    NO. It doesn't. Skill level, no matter how complex doesn't = success.

    NO. I'm not missing your point, I am disagreeing with your premise.

    But maybe, we don't know what you mean by success. I don't. What is success to you? In your examples you use PAY or income as a measurement of success. Are you talking about making money?

    What about a successful artist? They define their own success.

    Is a house painter with 10 years of skill under his belt, going to get more $$ than the college kid painting in the summer? NO. Skill has nothing to do with so many commodities.

    So, I too, disagree with this.

    GordonJ
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  • Hey, we all know flys're sposed to buzz round shit but sumtimes we get 'em in our face.

    Be cool to figure money got a natchrlly pristine hierarchy of value as it relates to myootyool exchange -- but it don't.

    Plus mebbe aftah I been out on the town an' I am bummin' around for instant MNOM MNOM MNOM stuffs to warm my belly, the burgah guy dowin' the late shift is my favorite friend over the brain expert next to Moi in the queue who says, "apologies for bothering you, you skinny freak, but do you realise your prolapsed brain is bulging out through your eyeballs?"

    Big battles gowin' on worldwide 'bout the value of what people DO.

    I can think of plenty places where the OP's opinion would get him lynched for a proto-elitist.

    Thankfully on WF we cover all bases.with reason, rigor & occasional necessary snarkiness held aloft.

    That is my cerebellular dissection for today.

    Incinerated pizza beckons ...
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    • Profile picture of the author Skywriting
      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      Hey, we all know flys're sposed to buzz round shit but sometimes we get 'em in our face.
      In Africa, sure.
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      • Originally Posted by Skywriting View Post

        In Africa, sure.
        Natchrlly, I am above takin' personal offense an' dowin' nuthin'.

        But I am nevah below receivin' impersonal offense an' dowin' sumthin'.

        What is your point here?
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  • Profile picture of the author jtxmisc
    Ultimately, the end result depends on both variables, Quality of Value x Quantity of Offers
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  • Profile picture of the author Skywriting
    Originally Posted by Mr_Lauri View Post

    Person A works at a hamburger place and flips burgers for living.
    Person B works as a brain surgeon at a hospital.

    Who earns more?Why does one person earn more?It's because one has a more complex skill than the other one.
    Person A owns the hamburger chain.


    The ability of a person to cooperate with strangers and fill their wants makes the most money.
    Skilled people do have an advantage, but nothing beats determination.
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    We should probably stick to the thread topic. An ongoing discussion about minimum wage is likely to turn political and get the thread closed.
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    I am going to disagree with you and say that luck beats determination.


    If you're born in a poor neighborhood in Chad or on Park Avenue in New York City matters... Born on Park Ave, 10 grams of determination gets you a lot farther than a kilo of determination in a poor neighborhood in a poor, warn-thorn-country.


    Men have it easier pretty much every where, in general (still a woman born on Park Ave needs less determination than a man born in a village on top of the tallest mountain in the world to a 15-year old unwed child.


    Just saying.



    Originally Posted by Skywriting View Post

    Person A owns the hamburger chain.


    The ability of a person to cooperate with strangers and fill their wants makes the most money.
    Skilled people do have an advantage, but nothing beats determination.
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by DABK View Post

      I am going to disagree with you and say that luck beats determination.


      Men have it easier pretty much every where, in general (still a woman born on Park Ave needs less determination than a man born in a village on top of the tallest mountain in the world to a 15-year old unwed child.


      Just saying.
      Here is something we in the west tend to be blind to completely unaware of the is going in in the 90 percent of the developing world that is not war torn.

      Where two thirds of the economy tend to be in the black market.

      While you have many cities in the us with large homeless populating living in conditions worse than refugee camps in war torn countries .

      Many developing countries better eductae their populations that the USA does .and have been turning out better quality college students than much of the us without the burden of heavy student debt.

      High skills with years of training are not the protection or safty they once where. In the face of rapidly improving ai .and other tech that makes event those people compete again lower wage workers all over the world .

      The same way blue collar workers have been for the last 40 years.

      Look up the term medical tourism.

      As far as the minimum wage issue goes three things happen with higher minimum wages first higher skilled workers snap up the jobs first, it then causes employees to either move to cheeper to operate cities and use more efficient teck. And then the workers recieving government assistance tend to cut their hours to not earn more and otherwise Lose benifits.

      The problem is the lack of valuable marketble skill sets. And a terrible education system the was designed or allow to undereducated most of the people who went through it .so they later had to pay to get any markeable skills . As for the most part no one else want to pay to train them either
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      • Profile picture of the author Skywriting
        Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

        The problem is the lack of valuable marketable skill sets. And a terrible education system the was designed or allow to undereducated most of the people who went through it .so they later had to pay to get any marketable skills . As for the most part no one else want to pay to train them either
        Not really. Skills can be learned by most anybody from most any other worker with even the most informal training.

        People don't want to show up to work or have people tell them what to do when they do show up.

        The problem is a lack of drive to help others.
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        • Profile picture of the author Odahh
          Originally Posted by Skywriting View Post

          Not really. Skills can be learned by most anybody from most any other worker with even the most informal training.

          People don't want to show up to work or have people tell them what to do when they do show up.

          The problem is a lack of drive to help others.
          i really don't want to go to a surgeon or dentist who does not have years of the proper training and he correct insurances and proper equipment working environment .

          there are skills the classroom environment is ideal for and a rigid education program is good for i think the best system or the system that produes the best results tends to be the military training programs in the Us ..as it tend to have classroom and hands on training that is guided by either soldiers who do it or highly qualified civilians who many time are former soldiers .

          lawyers doctors .. and many medical firles and training ourse are set up as much to limit the number of practitioners to keep wages high to justify cost of training .

          but you are right the are man skills if not most now that can be learned from someone in the field doing it or now with the falling cost of production equipment and the ever greater access to the end user by the producer .. there is many skills people an learn on their own and then find a paying customer for their skill level and over time build a broader set of skills in that area .

          the higher cost and more certifications the more likely the career track is high wage employee ..

          but craftman can take a 10,000 dollar mobile lumber mill . and the other power tools needed and mill their own limber grown on their own land make make it into furniture custom made for certain customers and make a real good living ..from a wokshopp on their property .

          if you don't have the high intelligence level or the native talent and the you havn't started purrin the 15 years of training and education in starting when you are 12 .

          the skills sets you are going to most likely have to develop to achieve the six figure better income level are sales, marketing ,basic business skills and craft skill or production skills .

          in which case you are correct all those can be learned from other people.. and many other people
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  • Profile picture of the author kuchenchef
    i can understand the sentiment or rather the hope that in a capitalist society skill would translate to income, but that's not how the market works. use value, supply, demand and ownership over the means of production are the deciding factors. if you own the burger restaurant, have affordable prices, a tasty menu and don't have much competition nearby, you can still outperform the neurosurgeon.
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  • Profile picture of the author spartan14
    Well i am agree with you but this its not aply in all situations .For example i know genial people who have a miserable job with minimum wage or maybe they dont have s job .Then i also know some idiots people who make a lot of money very easy and they are very happy with expensive cars etc .And they are ******* idiots .The thing its mindset and paradigms play a huge role in this thing
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    Actually, your biggest weakness determines your success rate.



    Mr. Lauri, wherefore art thou?


    Why start a discussion, then disappear?
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr_Lauri
      Originally Posted by DABK View Post

      Actually, your biggest weakness determines your success rate.



      Mr. Lauri, wherefore art thou?


      Why start a discussion, then disappear?
      I was following this discussion from within a virtual bunker... in case this thread would explode due to various topics ... and it did.
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  • I can agree with your point up to some extent, a burger flipper may become the billionaire, if he knows life lessons on supply and demand, where brain surgeon has limited time and cash inflow. Both can jump to higher level, based on their fate and faith.
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  • Profile picture of the author cheese1688
    If the mindset is a skill, then your skill level = success rate.
    I think the most valuable part for reaching success is your mindset, marketing skills are the second part.
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  • Profile picture of the author Master Blake
    I root for people who flip hamburgers for a living because they fund our economy.

    So they are pretty much, settled with their status.

    Let them be.
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