32 replies
Personally I think there's a lot of truth to "The Law of Attraction" premise. Unfortunately many People have dismissed it because of what they interpreted from the Book/Movie "The Secret."

There's some great advice in both (IMO).

Essentially, I think a Person's thoughts creates their "reality." And their actions, and then their results. And this has been understood for hundreds of years. "What a Person passionately thinks, they become." [Proverbs 23:7 "As he thinks in his heart, so is he."]

Many People miss out on a great deal of wisdom and understanding because of their preconceived notions/beliefs. They think they've got it all figured out when in reality there is still much to learn.

Anyway, LOA is just one "Law" of The Universe, if you like. There are several more: Including "The Law Of Compensation." That is basically defined as: "You will always be compensated for your efforts and for your contribution, whatever it is, however much or however little."

Then there's "The Law of Action."

If you aspire to be a successful Marketer/Entrepreneur and and/or reach financial freedom ― and beyond ― you must take action. No matter what "The Secret" illustrates, it won't just happen by thinking about it.

As it's been said: The Law Of Action states that: "You must do the things and perform the actions necessary to achieve what you are setting out to do." So take action: Take massive action. You can't get "something" for "nothing" ... And you will enjoy more satisfaction and fulfilment by working for your goal(s).

Then, when you combine that with LOA/"Think And Grow Rich" tools (like Affirmations, Visualization, Positive Thinking, Vision Boards, etc.) you will be significantly closer to reaching your goal(s)

HTH.
: )
#action #law
Avatar of Unregistered
  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    You are a law abiding citizen. Truth: there are laws of man (society), like don't walk across the street, but at an intersection OR, women can't drive a car. Those are laws of man.

    Laws of Nature say you can't jump more than a few feet off the ground (Gravity). In certain places, weather changes with the season, those are Natural Laws.

    All the laws you espouse here, are ideas of BELIEF, there aren't any LAWS.

    Take ACTION. What is it? Can an inert object be in motion? LAWS of physics tell us that yes, mass has motion at the submicroscopic levels.

    A person in motion is in a person in ACTION, although the action could be mental, as writers take, and people like Stephen King and J.K. Rowling are big successes.

    To say that you must take action, without offering up a definition of what that action looks like is, as I love to say, just more Pablum (baby formula) for the masses. It represents a substitute for the "real thing" (mother's milk). In the context of saying these LAWS are just Pablum, so there is no confusion here, I am saying these so called silly Laws ARE useless and meaningless ...

    because...

    there is only belief and anecdotal evidence behind them. Show us HOW and WHAT KIND of Action to take, then maybe, it would be helpful.

    GordonJ

    PS Who is it you Hope it helps? A frustrated Warrior who has spent years trying to find success?


    Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

    Personally I think there's a lot of truth to "The Law of Attraction" premise. Unfortunately many People have dismissed it because of what they interpreted from the Book/Movie "The Secret."

    There's some great advice in both (IMO).

    Essentially, I think a Person's thoughts creates their "reality." And their actions, and then their results. And this has been understood for hundreds of years. "What a Person passionately thinks, they become." [Proverbs 23:7 "As he thinks in his heart, so is he."]
    Many People miss out on a great deal of wisdom and understanding because of their preconceived notions/beliefs. They think they've got it all figured out when in reality there is still much to learn.

    Anyway, LOA is just one "Law" of The Universe, if you like. There are several more: Including "The Law Of Compensation." That is basically defined as: "You will always be compensated for your efforts and for your contribution, whatever it is, however much or however little."

    Then there's "The Law of Action."

    If you aspire to be a successful Marketer/Entrepreneur and and/or reach financial freedom ― and beyond ― you must take action. No matter what "The Secret" illustrates, it won't just happen by thinking about it.

    As it's been said: The Law Of Action states that: "You must do the things and perform the actions necessary to achieve what you are setting out to do." So take action: Take massive action. You can't get "something" for "nothing" ... And you will enjoy more satisfaction and fulfilment by working for your goal(s).

    Then, when you combine that with LOA/"Think And Grow Rich" tools (like Affirmations, Visualization, Positive Thinking, Vision Boards, etc.) you will be significantly closer to reaching your goal(s)

    HTH.
    : )
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11567632].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
      Thanks Gordon. : )

      The point was: "People must take action to reach their goal(s)." And while this may seem "obvious" it's the reason why most People don't suceed online.
      Signature
      "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11567633].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

      To say that you must take action, without offering up a definition of what that action looks like is, as I love to say, just more Pablum (baby formula) for the masses ...
      I think it's important for a Person to take productive action. And every Person's action steps will be different/unique to them. What would be your advice/definition of taking action??

      It represents a substitute for the "real thing" (mother's milk). In the context of saying these LAWS are just Pablum, so there is no confusion here, I am saying these so called silly Laws ARE useless and meaningless ...
      Wrong.

      Just because you don't believe in how something works doesn't make it less valuable or meaningful to other People. And although I agree I could have given specific steps to taking action ... That dosn't make my thread any less "valuable." Everything begins with a thought. And when People realize that I think it can be empowering.

      There is only belief and anecdotal evidence behind them. Show us HOW and WHAT KIND of Action to take, then maybe, it would be helpful.
      Well I can't speak for everyone; However firstly I think they should be passionate about what they're doing online. That makes a World of difference.

      PS Who is it you Hope it helps? A frustrated Warrior who has spent years trying to find success?
      Sure. Why not? All in all I want to help People reach a place in Life like I have.
      Signature
      "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11567645].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

        I think it's important for a Person to take productive action. And every Person's action steps will be different/unique to them. What would be your advice/definition of taking action??
        Let me join in here.... "Action" is JOINING... or sharing you thought with another... Ideas REMAIN ideas UNTIL it is shared and joined to / by another person. The more you collectively join behind an idea the closer to "Reality" it becomes.

        Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

        Well I can't speak for everyone; However firstly I think they should be passionate about what they're doing online. That makes a World of difference..
        Not so sure I am going to disagree with you here... but semantically I disagree if that makes sense? I don't think you HAVE to have passion for something to be successful... having EXPERIENCE be it direct or indirect and having the ability to share that experience in a manor that is helpful to others is the key.
        Signature
        Success is an ACT not an idea
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11567648].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

        I think it's important for a Person to take productive action. And every Person's action steps will be different/unique to them. What would be your advice/definition of taking action??



        Wrong.

        Just because you don't believe in how something works doesn't make it less valuable or meaningful to other People. And although I agree I could have given specific steps to taking action ... That dosn't make my thread any less "valuable." Everything begins with a thought. And when People realize that I think it can be empowering.



        Well I can't speak for everyone; However firstly I think they should be passionate about what they're doing online. That makes a World of difference.



        Sure. Why not? All in all I want to help People reach a place in Life like I have.
        Savidge4 last year, started one of the most useful threads the WF has ever seen, it is found in the The Warrior Path forum, and the 40 to 250 in 30 days post...and he has stayed with it and has SHOWN,

        An exact step by step 2 hour a day plan, if followed could lead to a five figure a month income in the year. Step by step actions to be taken.

        Maybe it is there, but I don't recall a word about PASSION, it was/is a PRACTICAL,

        USEFUL,
        MEANINGFUL
        post which gives any Warrior, especially one in USA, a blueprint, a plan of action to follow to a financial goal of their choice.

        You want to help people reach a place in life like you have.

        See the difference? One is about actually reaching a goal via ACTION steps one can take and the other is some LAW, which one can follow to reach YOUR place of peace, and apparent success.

        The originating thought should be What and WHY? That is, and has been for over 25 years my advice on the subject. It is a simple two questions.

        What do you want? Why?

        From the answer the action becomes clearer. Even in the so called LOA, it begins with a desire, a want. All those tools, like dream boards and all, keep one focused on the goal, the end result.

        The reason so many fail isn't because they don't follow some LAW, it is because they didn't answer the second question, the WHY they want it, what it does for them.

        And within that answer, we can often see the obstacles which need to be overcome and there is where your belief and insecurities need to be battled.

        So to say to anyone, you need to take MEANINGFUL action in the direction of your goal, is both spurious (false) and specious (misleading) because it assumes you know what action they are already taking and the assumption it is UNproductive.

        When goals are set from a base of what and why, then a plan can be implemented, and adjusted as one goes toward it, so all motion in that direction is productive, even the dead ends so one doesn't go down that alley again.

        GordonJ
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11567651].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

          Savidge4 last year, started one of the most useful threads the WF has ever seen, it is found in the The Warrior Path forum, and the 40 to 250 in 30 days post...and he has stayed with it and has SHOWN,

          An exact step by step 2 hour a day plan, if followed could lead to a five figure a month income in the year. Step by step actions to be taken.

          Maybe it is there, but I don't recall a word about PASSION, it was/is a PRACTICAL,

          USEFUL,
          MEANINGFUL
          post which gives any Warrior, especially one in USA, a blueprint, a plan of action to follow to a financial goal of their choice.
          But lets back this up even further... The POST is actually a result of an action... the initial concept was built while reading post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post asking "How to make money online?" The post and subsequent thread is simply an answer to the question... and I think I can openly admit a underutilized answer.

          So the actual catalyst is my son asking above and beyond 9 yr old questions about what exactly does Daddy do.... He had an idea.. but didn't understand how all of the pieces fit together. The easiest, way to teach ( for a child that is very visual in learning ability ) is to show them.

          - POST PAUSE -

          Speaking of that reminds me of the post left By Jeffery the other day in the Beginners area. GMTA he and I both dropped words of experience on the topic of getting started about 15 minutes apart from each other. I have to say tho that his post ( https://www.warriorforum.com/beginne...rs-2020-a.html ) is a CLASS A guide for a beginner that includes images to help in the step by step process

          Returning back to the regularly scheduled Post

          Hence the absolute basic concept of buying low and selling high... along with this comes imaging and writing, and SEO stuff ( Titles and keywords etc) understanding demand etc etc etc eBay simply was the perfect platform to teach my child the ways of the world... which he has apparently learned all to well.

          An idea that is joined in agreement between Father and Son ( in this case ) and agreed apon to share on the forum with others. The IDEAL scenario is anyone reading the thread is for the reader to call over their significant other and say "Hey read this we should try this" and again a moment of joining between 2 people in agreement creates ACTION.

          The transition from an idea to an action is JOINING. It really has nothing to do with the steps laid out.. or the process' or the steps... Those things may be the Catalyst for the joining to happen... but they are not the seed of action within itself. Those things become the resulting actions of the initial action.. and that is simply SHARING the idea and JOINING apon that idea.

          If you really start looking at my body of posts over the last few day ( to include post 5000 ) they speak of 1 of 2 things... experience or Joining. And this directly relates to something I said about a week ago "...2 states of being.. something that can be done or some thing that needs to be learned."
          Signature
          Success is an ACT not an idea
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11567658].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            But lets back this up even further... The POST is actually a result of an action... the initial concept was built while reading post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post asking "How to make money online?" The post and subsequent thread is simply an answer to the question... and I think I can openly admit a underutilized answer.

            So the actual catalyst is my son asking above and beyond 9 yr old questions about what exactly does Daddy do.... He had an idea.. but didn't understand how all of the pieces fit together. The easiest, way to teach ( for a child that is very visual in learning ability ) is to show them.

            - POST PAUSE -

            Speaking of that reminds me of the post left By Jeffery the other day in the Beginners area. GMTA he and I both dropped words of experience on the topic of getting started about 15 minutes apart from each other. I have to say tho that his post ( https://www.warriorforum.com/beginne...rs-2020-a.html ) is a CLASS A guide for a beginner that includes images to help in the step by step process

            Returning back to the regularly scheduled Post

            Hence the absolute basic concept of buying low and selling high... along with this comes imaging and writing, and SEO stuff ( Titles and keywords etc) understanding demand etc etc etc eBay simply was the perfect platform to teach my child the ways of the world... which he has apparently learned all to well.

            An idea that is joined in agreement between Father and Son ( in this case ) and agreed apon to share on the forum with others. The IDEAL scenario is anyone reading the thread is for the reader to call over their significant other and say "Hey read this we should try this" and again a moment of joining between 2 people in agreement creates ACTION.

            The transition from an idea to an action is JOINING. It really has nothing to do with the steps laid out.. or the process' or the steps... Those things may be the Catalyst for the joining to happen... but they are not the seed of action within itself. Those things become the resulting actions of the initial action.. and that is simply SHARING the idea and JOINING apon that idea.

            If you really start looking at my body of posts over the last few day ( to include post 5000 ) they speak of 1 of 2 things... experience or Joining. And this directly relates to something I said about a week ago "...2 states of being.. something that can be done or some thing that needs to be learned."
            The transition from an idea to an action is JOINING.

            I don't disagree. I would argue that the plan, or steps laid out would probably help someone to find the who to join. Maybe we're splitting hairs, the idea, however gotten or arrived at, doesn't it have to be the seed of action?

            But let's not get hung up on the chicken or the egg.

            Unless the goal is a hermit life or a Walden Pond existence, can we agree that goals achieved, goals reached, are done with cooperation, even if it is the buyer agreeing to our prices, an agreed upon value? An agreement.

            Doing or learning are both actions. Am I wrong, but I think we both agree that a person has to know what they want BEFORE they begin the action, or the joining? For me, that is Square One. Step one. Then, discernment as to the who to join.

            In the father son case, a no-brainer, but for a new IM Warrior just starting, say with affiliate marketing, the choices are many, so a vetting of the who to join would then take place. Not being argumentative, just trying to understand the process you use and how it differs.

            GordonJ
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11567806].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

              The transition from an idea to an action is JOINING.

              Doing or learning are both actions. Am I wrong, but I think we both agree that a person has to know what they want BEFORE they begin the action, or the joining? For me, that is Square One. Step one. Then, discernment as to the who to join.
              Lets look at some modern models as it were.. HP, Google, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon.... what do these have in common? MOST had 2 initial partners... I would say that in the beginning aside from Amazon, there was no to minimal amount of direction ( as to the relationship between the "starting point" and where it ended up as a product / service at "Launch" ) per se.

              Amazon is interesting because if you go read the Wikipedia entry it is Bezo's this and Bezo's that.. and for the love of something else we know damn well he started this business in his basement, and his wife was right there - hence the huge payout at divorce time LOL

              But lets dive a bit deeper here Doing and Learning... you are in your Basement / Garage ( universally seems to be the place one starts a multi billion dollar business - im screwed ) And you have this idea.. you start researching the idea... you go so far as to build a proof of concept - business like Tesla or KFC or Dyson come to mind - at what point does the "Product" go from being an idea... to actually being a car, or a chain of restaurants, or a Vacuum? In the Basement or Garage or Kitchen? OR once the idea is panned out and joined by another and another and another and another? I would suggest the later

              Ideas can include doing and learning... but it doesn't make them tangible concepts if they are left to collect dust in the basement or Garage... it takes an added step - JOINING

              Lets bring this REAL close to home ( https://www.warriorforum.com/offline...ve-action.html ) is THIS an idea? or has it gone past that? and if it has, what is that? Literally one of the most prolific shares ever on this Forum in my eyes - THAT has dollars written all over it

              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

              In the father son case, a no-brainer, but for a new IM Warrior just starting, say with affiliate marketing, the choices are many, so a vetting of the who to join would then take place. Not being argumentative, just trying to understand the process you use and how it differs.
              Father son being a no brainer.. on another level - becomes almost an only option... CIRCLE OF INFLUENCE becomes YOUR who. My son had NO CHOICE but to Join with me

              I want to talk to a culinary program.. I want to talk to an Agriculture program.... I didn't call these people.. I used my circle of influence to set up the initial meetings. It wouldn't be the first time I would have called people like that cold - and If you have read my stuff in the past I suggest doing so... The Greens thing was different tho, and the more "Formal" introduction removed a bunch of the whole what is this guy about and all that stuff - basically an effort to save time.

              All of the 1000's and 10's of thousand spent on Golf and Social memberships and going to meet and greets and being involved in Rotary and Chamber and this and that and the other and this thing and that thing - SEEMS like a waste at the time... I keep handing out cards and not getting any leads - I don't understand - It has absolutely NOTHING to do with selling, as it does expanding Not what you know, but who you know ( Circle of Influence )
              Signature
              Success is an ACT not an idea
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11567874].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ERIC BLACKWOOD
    If you knew what LOA really is, you'd run for the hills.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11567825].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by ERIC BLACKWOOD View Post

      If you knew what LOA really is, you'd run for the hills.


      Loonies On Acid?

      Lack Of Alcohol?

      Leg-Over Action?

      Or just another

      Lame Old Acronym?
      Signature
      TOP TIP: To browse the forum like a Pro, select "View Classic" from the drop-down menu under your user name.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11567828].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        Loonies On Acid?

        Lack Of Alcohol?

        Leg-Over Action?

        Or just another

        Lame Old Acronym?
        Lol. "List of Adjectives"??
        Signature
        "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11568004].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Gordon

    Here is the problem ,many starting out do not really know what they want . The have a long list of things they don't want based on where they are in life . And basically are in the state of wanting to get away from what they do not want.

    So the things they want tend to be gusesses about what might be better .

    So say they are in a job making a but better than minimum wage in their twenties and thirties . And work or the way they make money is just misseable and it is outside of their frame of thinking that they can enjoy what they do to earn money .

    So maybe joining those opportunities that lead him to learning the skill to match or beat the income from his or her job.
    Signature

    "I just wanted a good job ,but i could not find a good job, So i do it myself"-Jack Ma

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11567833].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author indianad
    Happy New Year!

    As a seasoned citizen, the one thing that has remained constant throughout my years on the planet is this...Nothing has changed except technology. People who "fight to succeed" most likely will find a way. For those who don't achieve their definition of success, only they can answer "why." It reminds me of an old story that has been circulating since I was a young child.

    A woman was hungry and heard that if she prayed all day, her food would appear. The woman prayed with passion and intent. All day the woman prayed and never moved from the spot of her praying. At the end of the day, the woman saw no relief and thus no food appeared. She became very distraught and spoke with a family friend. "Why is there no food?" I have prayed and prayed and yet my table remains empty. The family friend responds with compassion:

    "Yes my friend you did ask/pray as you should have. However, the action you didn't take was to seek the food. You thought by asking/praying and taking no action that the food would appear, however, you didn't realize that after you prayed/asked, you must take action. The request was answered, however, the answer was to be found in the market as today they were giving free food to all in need." You didn't seek for what you had asked.

    The woman was astounded. "I wasn't told to seek for the food. I was merely told to ask/pray with passion and be extremely clear on what I wanted." I wasn't told that the market would be the place to search for my food. The family friend placed a hand on the woman's shoulder. "Therein lies the problem with most of us. We ask/pray and expect to receive our desires without participating. Even with asking/praying, we must take action. Action is doing or not doing. Yet, they both are actions."ASK and it shall be given..SEEK and ye shall find." After asking...we must seek. Your plan will direct you in your seeking.

    I'm not certain if this decades old story makes any sense or adds any value to anyone's progress. What I do know as a seasoned citizen is this...Plan your work and work your plan. If the plan isn't producing the results you intended, then rework the plan. If you need help...ask for help.

    However, the most important questions to ask yourself are these: Am I willing to participate in the "process" of achieving my desired outcome? Am I willing to love the "details" that are a part of the process? Am I taking the daily steps that will support the details of the process?

    Whether I achieve the results or not...am I able to say to myself..I gave my all and although I'm disappointed with the outcome...I know I did my very best.

    If you answer this question with honesty...then regardless of the outcome for this plan...you are still destined for the success you desire as you will continue to participate in the process with action and love the details of moving toward your success.

    Best regards -
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11567852].message }}
  • Gotta figure also how ACTSHWAAHN means srsly choosin' the LESS LAME PATH.

    Which mebbe means dowin' FA in whatevah is that kinda area sumtimes.

    See, cos life is so fulla WANNAWANNABLE opportoonities, rules say we gotta open up our skin pores like our thighs an' SUCK DEEP ON THE INEVITABLE GLORY.

    tbh ima BASK FACE DOWN & FIGURE WALKIN' LATER kinda person.

    But yeah, prolly ima roll ovah if'n you tickle my feet right.

    Thing is, fyootyure is a way incendiary illusion gonna blitz your past realo if'n you lose control of

    THE FRICKIN' WAND
    YOU ORCHESTRATIN' STUFF WITH


    That is why I would wish always to be spaghetti softenin' sweet an ' coilsum in simmerin' water -- an' I believe Bruce Lee said much the same thing 'bout sum way cool karma stuffs before populah culture misquoted his ass for max retail value despite all evidence the guy jus' wanted to kick people in the frickin' tits.

    Aw yeah, "be as water," he said.

    tbh I would run with that marketin' baby, but I got srs reservations 'bout the loon pants.

    Anyways, thing 'bout actschwaan is ... it is kinda gowin' on anyways, hence the frickin' Cosmos.

    Evrywan here on WF dies ... prolly 2030 don't care.

    Less'n u Satan -- an ' I don't recall the guy postin' here evah.

    Thing is, we wander into the fyooture's unforgivin' darkness (which don't actschwlly exist yet, so "unforgivin' darkness" is kinda a metaphor) as summations of all possibility equatin' ourselves with YEAH IT IS LIKE THIS NOW, SO QUIT SULKIN'.

    SO WHEREIN LIES CERTAINTY ... AS ACTION MANIFESTS IN A SWIRL OF COMPETING INEVITABLES BEYOND THE REALMS OF SERIOUS STUPID, O PRINCESS?

    yeah, I realise this is a trick bcs you did naht ask that question, O comment readah, but now you seen it, why you disappointed this ain't no kinda ansah?

    Since when did headlines lead anyplace?

    Plus also, if'n there ain't no rabid porcupine runnin' wild in the depths of your soul, prickin' deep at your eyeballs till stuff squirts out, why you wanna see red 'steada translooscent style humor less'n you jus'a speshly reactive kinda creep?

    I offah this analysis as conjecture masqueradin' as bullshit on the presumption that all comers gotta be taken in less'n they stain the furniture with their enthoosiasm.

    Am I alone in my desire for whim made flesh?
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11567855].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    I will step in and say that it is not thought that create reality .it is our concept of reality that determine a majority of our thoughts and filter out thoughts that run counter.

    Most of the thoughts that go through are brain are not even ours .

    If I want really good Indian food from the restraint a few miles away . My thought did no create the restraint or the food or the close location.

    The location of the resteraunt the type of food and either opinions of trusted friends or previous experience eating there lead to me going there and getting food.

    Now if someone I know just shows up with my favorite dish from the resteraunt when I have the craving.thats called having great friends.
    Signature

    "I just wanted a good job ,but i could not find a good job, So i do it myself"-Jack Ma

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11567856].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Savidge .

    So building skills and expanding the circle of influence .

    Nowi know this turns the thread a bit but the tax benifits of haveing a business or building buisinesses around thing you enjoy and entertain you. Verse having to pull the money out and pay with after tax money .

    I've run into people who made a lot of money. But couldn't keep it or a roof over their head for verious reasons . The people who did the best over time had the best tax strategies and didn't focus on net income .as much money stayed in the business or went to building assets . That could be made to look like business investment.
    Signature

    "I just wanted a good job ,but i could not find a good job, So i do it myself"-Jack Ma

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11567948].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Savidge .

      So building skills and expanding the circle of influence .

      Nowi know this turns the thread a bit but the tax benifits of haveing a business or building buisinesses around thing you enjoy and entertain you. Verse having to pull the money out and pay with after tax money .

      I've run into people who made a lot of money. But couldn't keep it or a roof over their head for verious reasons . The people who did the best over time had the best tax strategies and didn't focus on net income .as much money stayed in the business or went to building assets . That could be made to look like business investment.
      I have very minimal personal assets.... as a person I have very little in the way of tax benefits / credits. As a business its a whole other ball game - EVERYTHING is a deduction. If YOU or your accountant REALLY understand tax code ( I happen to have the best of both worlds, I KNOW tax code and have an accountant that is on the same page ) You want to run yourself as a business.

      Even at a little level say 20K a year - if you know what you are doing, Self Employed at the end of the day KEEPS more money.
      Signature
      Success is an ACT not an idea
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11567951].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    I have run into a handful if people who are very wealthy but don't go out of their way to look it .virtually all of their high end habit are buisiness related. It is one of the only thing I can listen to Grant cardone about .

    He isn't selling tax preparation services .he is selling high end sales training and holds most of his wealth in multi unit apartment complexs . So he is biased when he advised people not to buy but to rent.

    I stopped listening to him at all months ago because of his childish behavior in the interview with Jordan Belfort .

    Anyway there is a number of programs people have to work on .and the view of taxes and personal income and assets is another. I'm coming to the belief that you can't really trust the income figures .there is a lot more money out there . Changing hands every day.

    I tend not to care about the income of someone howany people in California and New York City have six figure incomes but are paying5-10 k a month in rent and about 50 to 60 percent of their income in some kind of tax.
    Signature

    "I just wanted a good job ,but i could not find a good job, So i do it myself"-Jack Ma

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11567964].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author IGotMine
    Law Of Attraction - If you're a magnet you will attract steel.

    Made up concepts attract a lot of sheep.

    Very early in my marketing career, I seriously considered founding a "religion." I'm not religious in the least (I don't have any imaginary friends) but there's big money to be made leading people who aren't smart enough to think for themselves.

    Make up some really inspiring concepts, be super-passionate and you will have more followers than you know what to do with.

    The only problem was my conscience.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11568213].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by IGotMine View Post

      Law Of Attraction - If you're a magnet you will attract steel.

      Made up concepts attract a lot of sheep.

      Very early in my marketing career, I seriously considered founding a "religion." I'm not religious in the least (I don't have any imaginary friends) but there's big money to be made leading people who aren't smart enough to think for themselves.

      Make up some really inspiring concepts, be super-passionate and you will have more followers than you know what to do with.

      The only problem was my conscience.
      It is hard to start a religion .

      What I am about to say might come off as offensive .

      Here is how religions develop a person or group of people find several practices that for a time or for the make life a lot easier to live but require discipline .

      Now after they die another group find it much easier to make their lives easier and not have to do much work .running around telling people how wrong they are living their live and why all the bad things are from the wrong they do ..but the good things are bestowed by some higher force. For doing the right things these people say you need to do


      So if you want to start a religion it is less getting people who don't think for themselves . It is convincing people they are dirty nasty unworthy wretches. And giving the a nearly impossible method to get clean and become good people. And hopefully receive many blessings for becoming good people.

      So you get into the law of attraction and it is all based on these vibrations that there is no real measurement for and the accounting of it working leave out the thousands of times it doesn't work for the anecdotal time or two it does work

      So you engage in some process to change yourvibration to hopefully appeal to a greater unsceen force to bestow favored and blessing nice cars big houses millions of dollars just manifesting

      Heck

      Here is how to succeed or the religion of success.

      You have to set goal and work hard to achieve them.

      Work harder than everyone else seven days a week .

      Be the best achieve mastery .build Mastermind get mentors .

      Blah blah blah
      Signature

      "I just wanted a good job ,but i could not find a good job, So i do it myself"-Jack Ma

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11568226].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by IGotMine View Post

      Law Of Attraction - If you're a magnet you will attract steel.

      Made up concepts attract a lot of sheep.

      Very early in my marketing career, I seriously considered founding a "religion." I'm not religious in the least (I don't have any imaginary friends) but there's big money to be made leading people who aren't smart enough to think for themselves.

      Make up some really inspiring concepts, be super-passionate and you will have more followers than you know what to do with.

      The only problem was my conscience.

      I wouldn't have had the stomach to start a religion. But I seriously considered starting an MLM. And that's almost the same thing.

      For me, it wasn't a matter of conscience. It was a matter of knowing I would hate anyone who would see me as anything other than just another guy, because I loath followers of anything.

      When I used to be heavy into the Dan Kennedy marketing groups...seminars, events, masterminds.....I was told by someone that it was a cult. I rejected the idea.

      But then I thought of the conversations I've had with others in the group. Some are marketers that are there to learn...but some are really into the cult of personality.

      I remember stating many times, when I was asked about why I didn't sign up for some hugely expensive program..."This isn't my religion".

      I used to sell Rainbow vacuum cleaners, and the company had a cult like following. And again, I had to tell several people "This isn't my religion".

      It was the same when training in Kung Fu. The group I worked out with was completely sold on the idea that what they were doing was the only valuable use of your time. I remember mentioning that I saw the latest Rocky movie...and several guys looked at me like I was from Mars. Total absorption in one thing.

      And that's the rule, not the exception. It's human nature to seek out an authority figure and follow them. Not just in religion and politics, but everywhere.

      I was speaking at a trade show, and after the speech, a woman told me "You're a rock star". I said "Only in this room".

      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Even though we live in the best of times to live in recordered history . It's a great time to profit from convincing people the end times are just around the corner .
      It's one of the only universal appeals to the masses. Either create an enemy to hate together, or create an impending doom...and you have the only way out.

      And it doesn't matter if you are wrong. Once they see you as their savior (in any sense of that word), they are now used to following whatever you say...and shutting out any evidence to the contrary.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11568296].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        A report I wrote in 1986, and sold briefly online, in the "fringe" groups, which were prominent along with the geeks, those original computer weenies (of which I was one), was called, HOW TO START A CULT FOR FUN AND PROFIT.

        I can't tell you how many were sent to PO Boxes in Utah, Idaho, WY, Dakotas, seems everyone there used PO Boxes and wanted plain brown unmarked envelopes.

        Anyhow, this was before I knew there were people like R. Cialdini who would later confirm my suspicions with things like COMMITMENT and Consistency. Claude is my twin, on the issue of loathing followers, of any kind.

        Thanks to a rich man stinking up my father's barber shop one day, I never took to elevating people to a pedestal. Met many a rich man, many a so-called Guru and was never in awe of any of them. Just people, all they are.

        I found AMWAY to have that cult/religion feeling, especially here in Akron, where 2 of the 9 founding members of the association started. I think most MLM devotees are of that ilk too.

        Today, it is pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty easy (being a member of the CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM cult myself)...to start a cult, or a religion of personality. Can you say Kardashian? Heck there is even a Facebook cult with over 30,000 members for writing copy, started by a pretty savvy cult leader.

        If anyone wants followers (yecch, I'm with Claude... and Groucho, W.C. Fields, et. al. who wouldn't join a club that would want someone like me as a member...ha!)

        But starting one, isn't all that hard today. I think the Blair Warren material on the subject is some of the best stuff you can find, if you want to either start one, or identify one and avoid it.

        GordonJ

        PS. My religion comes with a Certificate of Authenticity, and for 19.95+ a beautiful frame too.





        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I wouldn't have had the stomach to start a religion. But I seriously considered starting an MLM. And that's almost the same thing.

        For me, it wasn't a matter of conscience. It was a matter of knowing I would hate anyone who would see me as anything other than just another guy, because I loath followers of anything.

        When I used to be heavy into the Dan Kennedy marketing groups...seminars, events, masterminds.....I was told by someone that it was a cult. I rejected the idea.

        But then I thought of the conversations I've had with others in the group. Some are marketers that are there to learn...but some are really into the cult of personality.

        I remember stating many times, when I was asked about why I didn't sign up for some hugely expensive program..."This isn't my religion".

        I used to sell Rainbow vacuum cleaners, and the company had a cult like following. And again, I had to tell several people "This isn't my religion".

        It was the same when training in Kung Fu. The group I worked out with was completely sold on the idea that what they were doing was the only valuable use of your time. I remember mentioning that I saw the latest Rocky movie...and several guys looked at me like I was from Mars. Total absorption in one thing.

        And that's the rule, not the exception. It's human nature to seek out an authority figure and follow them. Not just in religion and politics, but everywhere.

        I was speaking at a trade show, and after the speech, a woman told me "You're a rock star". I said "Only in this room".



        It's one of the only universal appeals to the masses. Either create an enemy to hate together, or create an impending doom...and you have the only way out.

        And it doesn't matter if you are wrong. Once they see you as their savior (in any sense of that word), they are now used to following whatever you say...and shutting out any evidence to the contrary.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11568303].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

          I think most MLM devotees are of that ilk too.
          I have a theory bout that.

          MLM companies have to have a Cause...greater than just making money. And the reason is...they are recruiting non-salespeople to sell. And that "greater good" has to be in the front of the mind of the members to overcome their natural dislike of anything "sales".

          This is also what causes distributors to make irrational claims about their products, like curing cancer. They get excited, but that excitement isn't based on strong business sense. It's based on multiple layers of ...well...excitement...mixed with a dream of wealth from other people's work.

          There is usually one person at the head of the company, and that person is treated like a demi-god. An old girlfriend was in Mary Kay, and she took me to a meeting. I was expecting a business meeting, but we had about 3 hours of cheering, and semi-worship of the founder.

          I get it, the leader is made a celebrity to foster admiration and devotion....but to an outsider it isn't fun to watch.

          By the way, if you want to watch world class selling from the stage, watch a few Joel Osteen shows. He's a maser story teller and stage salesman. His use of metaphor is useful to anyone writing copy, or selling from the stage.

          By the way, big Curb Your Enthusiasm fan.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11568486].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author IGotMine
    It is hard to start a religion .
    Not true.

    Think Jim Bakker, Joseph Smith jr.

    Not so much a religion as such, but a cult of personality.

    I've almost done it by accident on several occasions. You have to be careful about who you influence, it can be contagious.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11568228].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by IGotMine View Post

      Not true.

      Think Jim Bakker, Joseph Smith jr.

      Not so much a religion as such, but a cult of personality.

      I've almost done it by accident on several occasions. You have to be careful about who you influence, it can be contagious.
      Even though we live in the best of times to live in recordered history . It's a great time to profit from convincing people the end times are just around the corner .

      The dominant religion or those who ruled tended to build the biggest building in cities through history.

      So when the biggest buildings are banks and financial institutions . You can see what the religion is and who really rules.

      And there is much money to be made in for telling financial doom

      The fin part is when you observe cult like behavior in a cult or religion then see where groups of people display the same behaviors
      Signature

      "I just wanted a good job ,but i could not find a good job, So i do it myself"-Jack Ma

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11568274].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by IGotMine View Post

      Not true.

      Think Jim Bakker, Joseph Smith jr.

      Not so much a religion as such, but a cult of personality.
      But lets change up the names... Apple, Tesla, Dyson, ( inserted for Claude ) Amazon, Giorgio Armani, VW Bug, Kraft Mac and Cheese, Ford or Chevrolet.

      Granted in some cases.. yes cult of personality... but in others... it becomes a Cult of Product.. and the separation is less than paper thin.

      Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

      A report I wrote in 1986, and sold briefly online, in the "fringe" groups, which were prominent along with the geeks, those original computer weenies (of which I was one), was called, HOW TO START A CULT FOR FUN AND PROFIT.
      A quick re-write on how to start a tribe of followers and you could sell that today in the mainstream - Just Saying

      Look at Simon Sinek's video on "Start with Why" and you can plainly see how BRANDS use the idea of creating religion to their advantage... I think more and more we are seeing this as a very specific business model.
      Signature
      Success is an ACT not an idea
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11568494].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        But lets change up the names... Apple, Tesla, Dyson, ( inserted for Claude ) Amazon, Giorgio Armani, VW Bug, Kraft Mac and Cheese, Ford or Chevrolet.

        Granted in some cases.. yes cult of personality... but in others... it becomes a Cult of Product.. and the separation is less than paper thin.



        A quick re-write on how to start a tribe of followers and you could sell that today in the mainstream - Just Saying

        Look at Simon Sinek's video on "Start with Why" and you can plainly see how BRANDS use the idea of creating religion to their advantage... I think more and more we are seeing this as a very specific business model.
        I spent two years in and around San Francisco in the early 70's studying cults. The "real" ones, as they were called...Divine Light Mission (still doing well just a different name)...Scientology, still going strong, etc. etc.

        Blair Warren wrote a great starting point too, FORBIDDEN KEYS, in which he identified his HIDDEN ADDICTIONS which are:

        To be needed.
        To have hope.
        To have scapegoats.
        To be recognized and understood.
        To belong.
        To have shared secrets.

        His ONE SENTENCE persuasion contains the gist:

        People will do anything for those who
        encourage their dreams,
        justify their failures,
        allay their fears,
        confirm their suspicions
        and help them throw rocks at their enemies.


        As for Cult for fun and profit, I did a revision on starting a CLUB for fun and profit, sold in early 2000's, now off the market. But it is also the reason I have never (Yet) popularized my Square One Workshops, because I'm not important, the material is what matters...but there have been those who would have turned them into something else.

        GordonJ
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11568516].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

          But it is also the reason I have never (Yet) popularized my Square One Workshops, because I'm not important, the material is what matters...but there have been those who would have turned them into something else.
          I don't think there has to be a "Who" to make the process work. A simple "What" backed by a solid "Why" is all that is needed. Is Amazon what it is today based solely on Bezos'? I don't think so. Google... WHO do you pin that on? You don't, is the answer... its a WHAT, and a big one.

          Chick Fil A - a What and Why... McDonalds has done everything humanly possible to remove the WHO - can you name the founder of McDonalds without looking it up? More specifically within that Brand look at the excitement the Mint Shake that comes out for St Patricks Day... or the McRib... Both WHAT'S and nothing to do with WHO.

          BRAND in todays world is replacing WHO and sure there are those that build BRAND based on a WHO... but beyond Social and small business in general... BRAND is an identity minus the WHO.. and focused more on the WHY. Honda, Sony, and Toyota could be examples of this as well.
          Signature
          Success is an ACT not an idea
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11568534].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author spartan14
    I am agree with you amd yea you need to take massive action to succed .But everithing starts from subconstient mind .For example if you have a block that says you cannot be succesful it doesnt matter howuch action you take .But in conclusion i am agree tou cannot only dreaming and not take action and you will get a lot of money .The action must be aligned with mindset
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11568276].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by spartan14 View Post

      I am agree with you amd yea you need to take massive action to succed .But everithing starts from subconstient mind .For example if you have a block that says you cannot be succesful it doesnt matter howuch action you take .But in conclusion i am agree tou cannot only dreaming and not take action and you will get a lot of money .The action must be aligned with mindset
      Subconscious blocks .

      The need for massive action is a subconscious block . If you are disabled or I'll or injured or mermanent impaired and can't take massive action at any point .

      Then you are f#$&$ and have no hope of success

      Pretty much everyone who builds anything that looks like success uses large amounts of leverage .

      JK Rowling probably never printed,bound packed ,shipped warehoused or put any books in the shelves in stores unless she was signing them.

      She leveraged the resources that involved hundreds of thousands of people.

      And technology is making many kinds of leverage that where extremely expensive..free or inexpensive.

      Blah blah blah
      Signature

      "I just wanted a good job ,but i could not find a good job, So i do it myself"-Jack Ma

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11568314].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    The financial end of the world stuff is more profitable to predict than the actual end of the world because we have cyclycal boom and bust system .that had recesiions ever 5to 8 years and depressions every 80 .

    And now with constant news from every corner of the world even though the state of the average humane being is rapidly improveing and we probably will. Eliminate poverty in the next20 years .and have it possible for every human to have clean water basic nutrition,basic houseing,basic medical care and education.

    It is already possible to see every little disaster so it looks like the bad thing are happening more often.

    So much of the wealth we have today has only been created in the last 30 years .

    The business model growing greens that savidge talked about in another thread .was not possible a decade ago probable not five years ago. Or it would have required a lot more capital. To invest in the research .

    In any case I have a prophisy that I have looked in the future and seen . And basically given up trying to explain it to others

    And I would much rather work on being a much better creator than an attractor .
    Signature

    "I just wanted a good job ,but i could not find a good job, So i do it myself"-Jack Ma

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11568301].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Reddevil007
    I am following this thread as this is one of my favourite topics
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11568339].message }}
Avatar of Unregistered

Trending Topics