The exact brick wall my mind keeps hitting (rant/vent/whine combo)...

by TimothyW 23 replies
Here's my main mental stumbling block re: IMing.

I signed up for a very helpful, very well done series of videos. Very similar to other helpful videos + systems for about IMing. It seems so possible -- except for one thing...

Eventually it all depends on someone typing in their credit card numbers + buying *something*. This is where my suspension of disbelief gets UNsuspended. (I know, I know -- you're all out their merrily getting over this hurdle, because the hurdle doesn't exist in reality)

This particular video discussed the 3 different types of web surfers -- News/entertainment, Info/Stats, BUYERS.

Then it showed the picking of a niche -- using the example of "yeast infections."

So far, so good.

Now here's where my mind gets flooded with 'negative thoughts.' The KEYSTONE of this whole premise is, there are a certain % of people who will go on the net with these TWO attributes...

1) They have a problem they want info on how to get rid of.

2) They will be willing to ***BUY*** A DOWNLOADABLE INFO PRODUCT to help them do it.

Now, please, line up 100,000 women desperately in need of some kind of yeast infection relief -- and see what % of them would even THINK of getting online with the INTENTION of getting relief via these two steps --

1) ***BUYING*** info online (which will involve typing in their credit card numbers)...

2) in the form of a *downloadable* info product.

What my mind says is (and I know this is provably all wrong, I GUESS), 99.9999% of all these women are going to say/think: THAT'S *NOT* WHAT THE INTERNET IS FOR!

That is, there's statistically NO ONE in that group who would ever DREAM of using the web for the purposes of BUYING an info product online. Sure, GETTING INFO (free) -- they'll do that all day long -- but *BUYING* info?!?!? Never.

For that matter, what % of ANY group falls under the "BUYERS" surfer category?

Line up 100,000 people in ANY given group and ask them, "when you're surfing on the web, what % of the time would you say you are... looking for news/entertainment? Info/stats? BUYING AN INFO PRODUCT?

Yes, they buy books on Amazon, stuff on ebay, stuff from overstock.com, etc. Yes, they make travel purchases (car rental, plane tkts) + other tickets (sports).

But drilling down to a niche info product, then TYPING IN THEIR CREDIT CARD #'s?!?

I think a VAST % would answer: -- "Are you crazy?! That's not what the web is for! I would never even DREAM of doing that!"

Yet, much of what I see of IMing depends on exactly that occurring -- on a regular basis. That seems to be the very keystone of it all!

It seems a sales page must do TWO things -- 1) convince the reader of the benefits of buying, and... 2) Convince the reader to CHANGE THEIR THOUGHT HABITS ABOUT WHAT THE WEB IS FOR, in the first place!!! -- CHANGE them from being one type of surfer to being another type (the type that types in their credit card #'s).

Ok, now you can all start piling on top of me with all manner of vitriol.

Cheers(?)

-- TW
#mind warriors #brick #combo #exact #hitting #mind #rant or vent or whine #wall
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
    If it means anything - We do very well with yeast infection ebooks

    My wife just spent $80 on some face book game last night...

    My 8 year old 3 days ago gave his allowance back to me so that he could
    get a $5 a month membership to some game server...

    My 13 year old son left a note for me with a site address that sells videos on how to do some skateboard tricks...I bought it.

    The only real barriers are the ones that YOU have. There are tons and tons of people out there buying everything from farm Town tokens on facebook (damn farmtown!) to Yes, yeast infection books...

    I made an ass ton of money last year selling a reverse cell phone look-up service.

    I made a killing with **** berry (hold the boos to a minimum please)

    And there are many other things that I can list.

    The point is, if there is a problem that a person has...

    AND

    There is information or a product to solve that problem or need

    YOU HAVE THE POTENTIAL OF MAKING MONEY.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    I wrote some follow up PS to this -- but it got lost because I did it while the post was being transferred to another form category. I'll post 'em again if people respond to this post.
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  • Profile picture of the author steve39
    I think the majority of web surfers are simply looking for information. If they can find authoritative info for free, all the better. However, it is up to your sales page to convince them that your product is a cut above anything they can find for free - and as a result, there is a cost involved.

    Fortunately, there are millions of people online these days and it probably comes down to numbers. Even if 99% won't open their wallet for an ebook, the other 1% will.
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  • Profile picture of the author blanchi
    I would try to get past the whole yeast infection niche, then. I mean, you bought an info product online, right? Think of other niches where there could be a heavy need for fast, immediate access to information. Sure, most of this is available online for free if you have the time and patience (and know-how) to find it. Niches like weight loss, insurance, legal services, etc., etc., etc. would see people willing to shell out money just for access to information.

    Also, there's the matter of perceived value. It might be easier for someone to give up $47 for information on how to register their own incorporation rather than paying a lawyer hundreds of dollars to do the same thing... plus the time involved, and so on.

    That's not to say the yeast infection niche isn't a good one (I don't know if it is or is not, nor do I care). But get past the specific niche and realize there are plenty of people who would rather pay than do the hard work themselves. Look at the WSO section -- we could all learn how and do our own minisite graphics, banklinks, article writing, video production, and so on but how many people actually shell out the cash to have immediate access to these end results...

    Just my two cents.

    Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    I was just using the yeast infection niche as a random example.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Eventually it all depends on someone typing in their credit card numbers + buying *something*. This is where my suspension of disbelief gets UNsuspended.
      I don't quite understand the point of your post, to be honest. It sounds like you find it hard to believe that people will pay for information but that belief is clearly misplaced or so many people wouldn't be making money actually selling the information.

      Tina
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Dude, this is 2009. People buy info products all the time.

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    • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
      Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

      Dude, this is 2009. People buy info products all the time.

      Walk down any street and ask them. Tell me what you find. Start with this question: "What is an ebook?" Then of he ones who know what one is, ask THEM this... "would you ever consider buying one?"

      You seem to think "people" buy info products all the time -- I doubt that. That is not something most people even THINK is part of what "being on the web" is all about. They are doing everything EXCEPT buying info products. It's like asking them, "Do you go to McDonald's to fill your medication prescription?"
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        Yes Tina -- you are pointing out the paradox. But knowing it's a paradox doesn't seem to stop my brain from hurting over this stumbling block. What % of people (overall) do you think WOULD be willing to "enter the world" of *buying* an info product online?

        You must admit that much of iming depends on getting (snagging?) people who WOULD *buy* an info product online -- and that IS akin to asking them to "enter an entirely DIFFERENT world" than what they (already) think the internet is "for." Yes?
        The only paradox that I see is that you seem to be set on a mistaken belief that not many people are buying online. Saying you don't believe that people think of the internet that way is meaningless - people are buying and in record numbers.

        It strikes me like someone arguing the world is flat, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Again, I simply fail to see the point.

        Tina
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        • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
          You seem to think "people" buy info products all the time -- I doubt that. That is not something most people even THINK is part of what "being on the web" is all about. They are doing everything EXCEPT buying info products. It's like asking them, "Do you go to McDonald's to fill your medication prescription?"
          Perhaps this would be more useful if you gave proper statistics to back up what you seem to think people are doing. You doubt that people are buying info products all the time? Why do you doubt that and what sort of evidence do you have to back up that assumption?

          I still fail to see the point of the post or the logic behind it.

          Tina
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      • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
        Originally Posted by -- TW View Post

        They are doing everything EXCEPT buying info products.
        :rolleyes:

        Jeez,

        Guess we need to tell Clickbank they are out of business.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
          Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

          :rolleyes:

          Jeez,

          Guess we need to tell Clickbank they are out of business.
          I essense you are comparing the people who LISTEN to talk radio to the people who CALL talk radio.

          You're not admitting that one group is huge, and the other is tiny.

          Yes, CB is huge -- but it's still a sub, sub, sub group of 'everyone.'

          If you're saying that doesn't matter + the 'scraps' that are left are plenty to survive on, then you have a point! But if you're thinking the customers of CB = a big % of the general public, then I think you're way off -- which is where my mental paradox comes in.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    Yes Tina -- you are pointing out the paradox. But knowing it's a paradox doesn't seem to stop my brain from hurting over this stumbling block. What % of people (overall) do you think WOULD be willing to "enter the world" of *buying* an info product online?

    You must admit that much of iming depends on getting (snagging?) people who WOULD *buy* an info product online -- and that IS akin to asking them to "enter an entirely DIFFERENT world" than what they (already) think the internet is "for." Yes?
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    Yes, I acknowledge "people are 'buying' online."

    Why don't you tell me what you think that 'stat' means -- to you?

    To me, it means people are buying STUFF (physical things) via already-trusted vendors (ebay, amazon, expedia, macy's, LL Bean, etc.).

    It does NOT (in general) mean people tend to seek info online, then end up *buying* a downloadable info product online. When you ask them to do THAT, you are asking them to enter an entirely different world. You are asking them to 'join the club' called, "people who buy downloadable info products online."

    That club -- and even the 'club' of people who even know what such a thing IS -- is a very, very tiny club indeed. I know it's only anecdotal, but CERTAINLY no one *I* know would even DREAM of buying a downloadable info product online.

    What do YOU think the overall % of people who WOULD entertain the idea of getting info via a downloadable info product they must PAY for, is?

    Please let me know.

    Thanks!

    -- TW

    PS: When someone from a certain niche (looking for info) stumbles upon a page offering a downloadable info product they must PAY for, what do they think? They must then make the decision BETWEEN free info (which is what they are using the web for), and PAID info. I think 99x/100 they think, "screw this -- good-bye!" Like, "I don't know who this person is -- but it seems kinda shady to me -- they just put up a cyber TOLL BOOTH, where there shouldn't be any toll booth at all -- c-ya!" It looks like cyber- highway robbery. If you're surfing the web looking for (free) info -- which is what most people think the web is for (besides 'buying' *things* from amazon, etc.), and you accidentally land on a page requesting your MONEY -- you merely turn around and continue your journey "the other way." No?
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  • Profile picture of the author Slin
    Any market that there are books in the library and Barnes and Noble there is a market for.

    My mom was browsing around looking at crochet stuff the other day, she was not looking to buy. But oh man she found an info product and yes she bought it.

    (she does not know that it is called an "ebook")

    What are you so confused about?

    I will not reveal my soon to be amazing niche (just about to start a new campaign) but I can say I have bought info products in it before.

    People go online, browse, and are generally frustrated if they are looking for information online. For instance, if I felt I was overweight, I may type things in online.

    Now normally I am looking for information, but if someone promises to show me how to lose weight for only $37 you think I am going to get that? Of course I am!

    Because most of the free information isn't together, and there are tons of different views, conflicting ideas, and people arguing. But here is a product that promises that it will work. It even has a money back guarantee!

    Info products are bought often.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    I guess that makes sense Slin. But you do see that targeting a niche -- and then asking a portion OF that niche to jump through the (new, sudden) ADDITIONAL hoop of, "give me your money," would be cause for *severely* reducing one's chances of making a sale.

    When people are surfing, *buying* info is definitely NOT what they "signed up for." Agree?
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  • Profile picture of the author swilliams09
    Originally Posted by -- TW View Post

    Here's my main mental stumbling block re: IMing.

    I signed up for a very helpful, very well done series of videos. Very similar to other helpful videos + systems for about IMing. It seems so possible -- except for one thing...

    Eventually it all depends on someone typing in their credit card numbers + buying *something*. This is where my suspension of disbelief gets UNsuspended. (I know, I know -- you're all out their merrily getting over this hurdle, because the hurdle doesn't exist in reality)

    This particular video discussed the 3 different types of web surfers -- News/entertainment, Info/Stats, BUYERS.

    Then it showed the picking of a niche -- using the example of "yeast infections."

    So far, so good.

    Now here's where my mind gets flooded with 'negative thoughts.' The KEYSTONE of this whole premise is, there are a certain % of people who will go on the net with these TWO attributes...

    1) They have a problem they want info on how to get rid of.

    2) They will be willing to ***BUY*** A DOWNLOADABLE INFO PRODUCT to help them do it.

    Now, please, line up 100,000 women desperately in need of some kind of yeast infection relief -- and see what % of them would even THINK of getting online with the INTENTION of getting relief via these two steps --

    1) ***BUYING*** info online (which will involve typing in their credit card numbers)...

    2) in the form of a *downloadable* info product.

    What my mind says is (and I know this is provably all wrong, I GUESS), 99.9999% of all these women are going to say/think: THAT'S *NOT* WHAT THE INTERNET IS FOR!

    That is, there's statistically NO ONE in that group who would ever DREAM of using the web for the purposes of BUYING an info product online. Sure, GETTING INFO (free) -- they'll do that all day long -- but *BUYING* info?!?!? Never.

    For that matter, what % of ANY group falls under the "BUYERS" surfer category?

    Line up 100,000 people in ANY given group and ask them, "when you're surfing on the web, what % of the time would you say you are... looking for news/entertainment? Info/stats? BUYING AN INFO PRODUCT?

    Yes, they buy books on Amazon, stuff on ebay, stuff from overstock.com, etc. Yes, they make travel purchases (car rental, plane tkts) + other tickets (sports).

    But drilling down to a niche info product, then TYPING IN THEIR CREDIT CARD #'s?!?

    I think a VAST % would answer: -- "Are you crazy?! That's not what the web is for! I would never even DREAM of doing that!"

    Yet, much of what I see of IMing depends on exactly that occurring -- on a regular basis. That seems to be the very keystone of it all!

    It seems a sales page must do TWO things -- 1) convince the reader of the benefits of buying, and... 2) Convince the reader to CHANGE THEIR THOUGHT HABITS ABOUT WHAT THE WEB IS FOR, in the first place!!! -- CHANGE them from being one type of surfer to being another type (the type that types in their credit card #'s).

    Ok, now you can all start piling on top of me with all manner of vitriol.

    Cheers(?)

    -- TW

    so what is your point? You can believe anything, the only thing that matters is what you do. So how does this effect your action? do you plan to quit IM, settle for peanuts, or change your beliefs?
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    • Profile picture of the author snapper
      It would seem to me that it doesn't matter what percentage of people buy... the important thing is are there enough people buying to make my niche profitable.

      Who cares if 0.005 percent of people buy if you can make a profit with 0.005 of people buying.

      I guess with every invention there were always people who did not believe the invention would work... heck wasn't it someone in the 50s or 60s who said computers would never become popular. Guess that person looks a little silly now.

      One would think you could end up looking like the person who said computers will never become popular if you publically state that not a very big percentage of people are buying online. This whole forum revolves around people who sell and buy stuff online.

      After searching in Google I found the following stat:

      Two-thirds (66%) of online Americans say they have purchased a product online, such as a book, toy, music, or clothing. Attitudes and perceptions play a key role in whether online users choose to purchase products online.
      This is from an article dated Feb 13 2008.

      Thats 66% of people who are online...
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  • Profile picture of the author David Mcalorum
    I fully agree with you man. Especially if your product is a high ticket one!

    This WSO that I just made kind of hits on just selling to your BUYERS.

    And I noticed all the major gurus talk about it as well.

    You might want to check it out!
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  • Profile picture of the author sanjid112
    Not everyone is online, yes. Not all people buy the product or information online, yes. That also means, there are people who still want to buy online, whether it is a real product or just information. It is not possible, a small part of it, will be running our ads, and they will affect people who do not buy to buy, because they already feel the benefit of that information.

    If we only spin on the notion that only a few want to buy online, without notice that does not mean a few, will be forever a little, we would never dare go. Precisely because few, there is an opportunity to gain more profit, than do some "real" business. So for me, is just an opportunity.

    In the world of "real", the program occurs. If we talk about cell phone away in the 1900's, not many people use it, but now, almost everyone wearing it, and now a big business. Or, a car, had only a little, but now, of course you know.

    Another example, my lecturer, bought the contents of scientific journals, online, he even bought a membership at the site, which provides millions of scientific articles as a reference to his teaching or research.

    Why do people want to buy the information or products online? Because they found that this information, they could not get in FREE on the Internet, and the price was reasonable.

    So this is important, selling something that they want and they can not get anywhere else for free. It's not about how many are using the Internet to "BUY" them online. Moreover, they buy information online, the same as they buy books in bookstores. What do they buy from a book in a bookstore? Information is not it? So, what is the different?

    -Malik
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  • Profile picture of the author Jack J
    In the offline world I go shopping on a regular basis. Heck, I even go shopping when I don't want to go shopping. Did you ever have a family member shout from the bathroom that there was no toilet paper only to find that there's none in the cupboard either?

    Sometimes shopping is a planned event with a predictable purchase.

    Other times whilst I'm out shopping, I see something that catches my eye. I think, "Ooh! That looks good! I can afford that. I'll buy it!" It's called an impulse buy. It's a huge, HUGE market that is deliberately targeted by producers and retailers. That doesn't make it wrong, illegal, unethical or immoral. In fact, I've been immensely grateful for and pleased with many of my "impulse" purchases. I'm happy. Retailer's happy. Producer's happy. Win-Win-Win.

    Sometimes, I go window shopping - that's not buying windows! I go to look around the shops. I frequently have no intention of buying anything. I may be going out just to get the air. I may be going out just to people watch. Heck, there's hundreds of reasons to go window shopping. But.. in fact it's a big BUT.. Despite having no particular intention to purchase anything, I still take my wallet.

    In other words, I'm prepared to buy even if I have no intention, and no target product when I set out.

    If producers and retailers of goods and services assume that no-one ends up making a purchase whilst window shopping, or that no-one ever makes an impulse purchase then they are just reducing their own sales figures.

    Here's an important point:

    From a marketing viewpoint, the internet is just another distribution channel for goods and services.

    Some of those goods and services are information products.

    Offline - we call them books, CD's, DVD's, courses, training courses, support services, advisory services etc.

    Online - we call them the same things. We also have additional similar products that are easily distributed over the internet. We call them ebooks, online courses, email courses, paid subscription sites, ebusiness support services and get this one - subscription forums!

    There are people out there buying info products, millions of people buying billions of products. Most of them come away happy with their products. If they aren't happy, in the majority of cases they are able to claim against some of the best guarantees in the world. Where that doesn't work they can claim through the payment processor. If that doesn't work they can claim through their credit card company. Yeah, not every case is covered, but the vast majority are.

    So, you have a mental stumbling block that says, "People don't go online with the intention of buying something." You could be right. You could even be right in the majority of cases, however anecdotal your evidence. BUT..

    There's a difference between
    1. intending to make a purchase
    2. being prepared to make a purchase
    3. being resistant to make a purchase

    You appear to have a hang up that says most people are resistant to making a purchase.

    That's your choice.

    You can research sales figures online or offline for purchases of infoproducts.
    The majority of us in these forums will tell you that they are huge.

    You can research the numbers of online purchasers of infoproducts.
    The majority of us in these forums will tell you that they are huge.

    You can say the majority of internet users resist making purchases of online infoproducts.
    I'm guessing that the majority of us in these forums will tell you that's ok, and that you are entitled to your opinion.

    They would argue that the numbers who do purchase is HUGE.
    They would argue that it is HUGE enough for it to be beneficial to the HUGE number of sellers.
    And they would argue that it is HUGE enough for it to be beneficial to the HUGE number of buyers too!

    Win-win again!

    I'm sorry you have the stumbling block.
    In my opinion though, your opinion is plain wrong.
    I think successful IMers would disagree with you too.
    (I personally suspect it's based on your own preferences rather than evidence?)
    For us to agree would mean that you will have to adjust your opinion, because for me and many many others the evidence is overwhelming that there is a large enough market for it to be viable. For those not in that market - those who don't want to buy online - I wish them well but I don't worry over them either!


    But hey, your choice, your opinion, your responsibility, your outcomes.
    You can live with it or choose to change your mind.

    Kind regards

    Jack
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  • Profile picture of the author eBizSuccessCoach
    Look people will buy anything when they want it whether they NEED it or not. You are worrying about the wrong issues. it's your ego that want you to stayed stagnated. Push through your own personally barriers and make some money already!
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