A lifetime of Woo-Woo, and how and why it can be helpful.

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So there is no doubt, I like to be on the same page, so what is WOO WOO mean?

I will use this definition for this post:

Noun:
unconventional beliefs regarded as having little or no scientific basis, especially those relating to spirituality, mysticism, or alternative medicine.
"some kind of metaphysical woo-woo" AND
Adjective:
relating to or holding unconventional beliefs regarded as having little or no scientific basis, especially those relating to spirituality, mysticism, or alternative medicine.
"quartz crystals that were so popular with the woo-woo crowd"

Much of what is discussed here at the MIND sub-forum may fall under these definitions, all things THE SECRET, Manifestation and sub conscious training (albeit, depending on what that means to you)...

I have a lifetime (over 50 years) of study of all things WOO WOO. Having been exposed to unconventional beliefs at a young age, I was lucky to have had a mentor who insisted that all studies be RESULTS oriented. Now that is a skew of my mind.

I live in a Stimulus-Response world and when TUNED into my conscious awareness, it gives me great clarity for what other people are doing. Staying tuned in for long periods of time isn't possible, someone who is Totally Conscious Aware may be like soldiers who maintain flight/fight response awareness for long times, resulting, often but not always in things like PTSD.

Being in a heightened state of awareness for short periods of time, however, is one of the foundations of Woo Woo positive experiences.

Odd thing, some of this woo woo experience has come from studying some hard core business people, like Joe Karbo who wrote the book, THE LAZY MAN'S WAY TO RICHES, but it was actually two books in one, the second part of it being all about Dyna-Psych, woo woo if there ever was one.

And Robert Collier, he of the famous ROBERT COLLIER LETTER BOOK, penned one of the all time best selling woo woo books, THE SECRET OF THE AGES.

Much of the derogatory comments toward woo woo come from either main stream religions or from schooling and impressionable young minds.

So, here we are, and one thing I want to get across is, coming from a background and a lifetime of study into all things woowoo, it has always been my objective to look for the practical and useful bits and pieces of any sort of mind/thought/spirit studies.

Are you skeptical of woowoo? Well, being skeptical is a positive and useful tool, and it makes one want to test or find out without going down rabbit holes and encountering some very weird characters as Alice did in Wonderland.

What have been your Woo Woo Experiences? I'll gladly share mine later, from Astral Projection (out of body experiences), telepathy, to some pretty far out ideas...all having been tested in the laboratory of life.

GordonJ "Mr. WooWoo?"
#helpful #lifetime #woowoo
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Timing and energy . And it not a mechanical energy the classic term was vibes that feeling you get from people or an area you are in.

    People with the reality I live in energy feeders cannot stay around me or generally negative people. Everyone who comes around me and stays in my energy field is there in some way to exchange energy or because they have a piece of information I am seeking. It a matter of finding what that is.

    I am an energy snob and try to be in an area or smooth out the energy of an area for my ultimate comfort.

    As long as I follow my intuition and be where timing can work in my favor .

    My them on the spiritual and woo woo stuff is how you personally use it in practical ways that result in importers daily experience.

    As I hit a state of enlightenment or realization in the last month or so . There are a lot of little things just happening around me to support me. And it's stuff that just can't be planned or imagined as a possiblility before it happens.

    Although I want to travel it looks like it will be a few years before things normalize to travel the way I want.. now that I am back in Florida and already have an id after just six weeks. I am focused on getting 3-5 acre of land and building a mini house.then building my food forest . Or more just being lazy and planting the food crops that grow real well in Florida.

    Then I have a woo woo type belief when it comes to mentor type people. Rather than one person taking me under their wlng I have people show up when I need the and teach me or give me a tip or just point me to the right place . And it avoids the waste of a lot of time.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Thanks Odahh,

      A common idea found among folks who have had some kind of realization, or enlighentment, or a spiritual awakening...and these have many forms and are individual...

      the common comment one hears is the sudden ATTENTION to the "little things happening to support" the newer realized consciousness, or mindfulness. They were always there, and probably a lot more to be utilized, as awareness increases. .

      One idea, another popular one, is that you are exactly where you need to be. In the manifestation world, or goals/wants, a book like ACRES OF DIAMONDS will often trigger a realization that the gold we seek is right beneath our feet (or inside our heads).

      WE do give off and pick up energy from other people. A practical way to use this knowledge is to learn about things like FASCINATION, a phenomenon of the animal kindom and remant skill of our human past (one of the subconscious things).

      Fascination is the transfer of energy via the eye. Perhaps some of the evil eye. Or met someone with a TWINKLE in her eye, or somone who feels like they can look right into your soul.

      So, even the most arcane and out there, woowoo, when understood, can be tapped into and added to our bag of tools.

      Have you ever felt someone staring or looking at you, from behind or the side? This is an energy you receive and is the energy wave one uses in Fascination also.

      As I've written before, many times it is less about getting new stuff...and often about letting go of the old (thoughts, habits, etc.), which is easier said than done, granted.

      Thanks for sharing, you might surprise yourself with how much HELPFUL energy surrounds you, and when you become a magnet, you'll wonder where it has been hiding all these years.

      GordonJ

      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Timing and energy . And it not a mechanical energy the classic term was vibes that feeling you get from people or an area you are in.

      People with the reality I live in energy feeders cannot stay around me or generally negative people. Everyone who comes around me and stays in my energy field is there in some way to exchange energy or because they have a piece of information I am seeking. It a matter of finding what that is.

      I am an energy snob and try to be in an area or smooth out the energy of an area for my ultimate comfort.

      As long as I follow my intuition and be where timing can work in my favor .

      My them on the spiritual and woo woo stuff is how you personally use it in practical ways that result in importers daily experience.

      As I hit a state of enlightenment or realization in the last month or so . There are a lot of little things just happening around me to support me. And it's stuff that just can't be planned or imagined as a possiblility before it happens.

      Although I want to travel it looks like it will be a few years before things normalize to travel the way I want.. now that I am back in Florida and already have an id after just six weeks. I am focused on getting 3-5 acre of land and building a mini house.then building my food forest . Or more just being lazy and planting the food crops that grow real well in Florida.

      Then I have a woo woo type belief when it comes to mentor type people. Rather than one person taking me under their wlng I have people show up when I need the and teach me or give me a tip or just point me to the right place . And it avoids the waste of a lot of time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    While we are on the subject of woo woo I will call it less a help full energy and more an energy of ease. But that is my perception at this point.

    At the point I am at in my realization / awakening the stuff doesn't matter only the process of creating a more enjoyable personal experience in the present.even when things are far from ideal.

    Well and part of my realization has been how little stuff I actually need while having access to a large number of things I don't need to own but can use occasionally when the experience requires.

    As a survival mechanism I went numb to much of what was going on around me most of my life and put myself far outside the present moment.it was not do to physically or sexually abuse so there is no break in personality. Generally just the same miserable repetitive boring stuff kept happening over and over.

    That was life prior to me going to live in Vegas an the last 6 years has been sorting through a wide range of experiences moving around to identify what things or experiences I want and don't want. What improves my experience and what does not.

    Now the habit I have to break is the excess visualization of the future and pull more of that energy into present experience and work on a more intense. Satisfaction based present.

    And as I do that I can provide the option and opportunity for those around me to have a much richer experience of life.

    As I am an energy snob and those are the only ones who will tolerate or enjoy being around me.

    Claiming to be enlightened/ realized/ awakend is an extreme level of egotism so I now see the world as a menu of options. That I have the power to choose the options I want to have better experience. And if options I didn't knowingly choose manifest they are keys to much better experiences after.

    The energy has not been hiding. Humans relationships with energy of all types has been based in struggle and slogging through thick dense earth energy.so to get enough energy to survive required toil in the fields or burning some fuel to heat up water and unlock energy.either with food in a pot . Alcohol or burn oil for electricity..

    Waking up now as we move to renewable and magnetic based power generation. And if you take virtually unlimited sources of electricity. Then producing fresh drinking water and water to grow hydroponic and electricity to run the lights and environmental controls.

    And that is a small part of the great big changes it's dawn of a new time on this planet so you r's the time to wake up and get the house in order
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Heinz
    Just had to chime in with a two cents worth of wit and say that the meat and potatoes of life is exclusivity.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Tom Heinz View Post

      Just had to chime in with a two cents worth of wit and say that the meat and potatoes of life is exclusivity.
      Ha! Thanks.

      Except for a vegan. And as for potatoes, not even figuring in baked, boiled or roasted, just the potato fried....

      French fries, curly fries, bistro, cottage, waffle cut, steak, wedge, shoestring...so the exclusivity offers a smorgasbord of variety.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        Ha! Thanks.

        Except for a vegan. And as for potatoes, not even figuring in baked, boiled or roasted, just the potato fried....

        French fries, curly fries, bistro, cottage, waffle cut, steak, wedge, shoestring...so the exclusivity offers a smorgasbord of variety.

        GordonJ
        Or the variety of potatoes available if you go out what is available at the grocery store or head down to South America where the natives developed hundreds of types for different altitudes and soil conditions .

        In other parts of central and South America the people developed tera preta a soil that kept fertility for hundreds of years. And some how grows back.

        Organic or chemical free farming was considered woo woo and some still considere it woo woo. But scientists studying soils are finding the more life in the soil the better plants grow.

        There is a wide range of options outside the normal range people tend to accept as the available options.and the only way to describe them to people tends to sound crazy or woo woo

        I think when it doesn't matter how much is in the glass but how easy it is to refill the glass or get more.

        In the thread by art you mentioned gardening pulling weeds and the hard work of preparing soil. There are many who swear by back to eden or gardening with wood chips. Based of a man called Paul gauche. What he basically did was start covering his garden with wood chips 20 years ago. But the real key to the system is the all his gardening waste gets thrown to his chickens who turn the weeds and everything else into eggs and an amazing compost. That goes back to the garden to feed the plants.

        Tapping into the Devine or the consciousness of the universe. One of the things available to your awareness is that there is no waste in nature . So creatively how do you start production of waste that end up as a free input to another part of the system.
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          The story takes place BEFORE I met Mike McGroarty, of FREE PLANTS dot com and other sites, before he and I sat at his kitchen table and made a guerilla video about IM.

          Today, Mike is authority...on all things plants.

          But a few years before I met Mike and a few years after I worked with my Uncle Frank Yoder on Swamp Rd. in Hartville, OH (best soil in the world?).

          A marketer asked me to write a promotion for, and then source the product...which was a pacharia aquatica or pachira glabra, the MONEY TREE.

          Braided together when young, five trees form the good luck tree celebrated by Feng Shui (Eastern woowoo), and sold everywhere as a GOOD LUCK TREE. They make great bonzai trees too for rock gardens.

          Well, a source I found was already growing them in FL, and would drop ship anywhere lower US, SO, all the marketer had to do was craft a decent promotion, which I was able to do.

          My point is, FL has great opportunities for growing things. I don't know which coast or nearest city you are at, but I guarantee, you are not far away from a wholesaler of something growing year round in FL.

          And has Mike has pointed out to thousands, once you get good at grafting, you have a product which reproduces as if by magic, no waste needed.

          A small container on the front porch could produce plants which could have countless harvests.

          GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author SARubin
    Well Gordon,

    When it comes to woo-woo thinking I bought my ticket for the crazy train a long time ago (chuga chuga, chuga chuga - Woo Woo!)

    Granted, many woo woo thinkers might in fact be clinically insane, but most of us just see things from a different, more expansive, point of view.

    We've tapped into an energy that's bigger than our conscious minds, and one that holds the secrets of creation.

    Others might call us "woo-woo" or "cooked in the head" because we don't fit into their definition of "normal".

    But as I get older, and learn to embrace a more creative kaleidoscope of perception, I've come to realize that "normal" might only be for people who can't handle the more beautiful questions.

    Like "why not?" or "what if"?


    From a strictly physical point of view...

    Since the beginning of civilization...

    Normal people knew machines could never fly... An insane person said "Why not?"

    Normal people knew the world was flat, science proved it... An insane person said "What if it's not?"

    Normal people understood we could never talk to someone on the other side of the world in real time... And now we're all crazy, because some lunatic said "What if we tried it this way?".


    As far as metaphysical and/or spiritual woo-woo...

    For those of us who've experienced such things, no convincing is needed because we already know it's real.

    And for those who haven't, no convincing may be possible because they already believe it's not.


    Fact is, I don't think I've ever met, nor do I ever care to meet, a truly creative or interesting person who isn't at least a little bit woo-woo in the headspace.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Thanks SARubin,

      I wanted to highlight this:

      Originally Posted by SARubin View Post


      For those of us who've experienced such things, no convincing is needed because we already know it's real.

      And for those who haven't, no convincing may be possible because they already believe it's not.


      Fact is, I don't think I've ever met, nor do I ever care to meet, a truly creative or interesting person who isn't at least a little bit woo-woo in the headspace.
      Thank you.

      It is often that EXPERIENCE, a first encounter, first blush with the woowoo, and sometimes it is spontaneous, comes out of nowhere...

      and other times comes via effort (meditation, dreams, guided visualization, hypnosis, or via a book, audio or video)...

      where there is a tipping point. Ask the Navy pilots who saw the UFO, if they think differently about such things?

      If one hasn't had an OBE (out of body experience), they surely know WE are out of our heads, and truthfully, they are right, that is exactly what we did.

      Amazing thing about many mainstream beliefs, and religions, many were founded on Miracles, unexplainable events, encounters with the spirit world of some sort.

      When I was practicing my form of Remote Viewing, while on board a nuclear submarine, it was long before the MEN WHO STARE AT GOATS and the CIA or Pentagon.

      From a practical side of things, say remote direct marketing...a "form" of Astral Projection, when aided by Google Maps, lets me float right into the home of my avatar and have a look around to see what's cooking. She might need an air fryer.

      Experience woowoo once, and it opens one's mind to possibility.

      GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I love Mike M's emails....I'm an expert gardener but have learned quite a bit from him. He's a hoot.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I love Mike M's emails....I'm an expert gardener but have learned quite a bit from him. He's a hoot.
      Could be the nicest marketer I've worked with and just really nice people. Pam makes a mean choc chip cookie too.

      I think he exemplifies the GIVE first, get later ideal which I constantly harp on.

      As for gardening, no thanks, however, I am an EXPERT eater when your harvest comes in.

      GordonJ

      May not be anything more satisfying than getting your hands dirty in the Spring, and enjoying your efforts come Fall. Well, for some us, there are a lot of things MORE satisfying, but for those who do it and love, its a woowoo (spiritual) experience at its core.
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        Could be the nicest marketer I've worked with and just really nice people. Pam makes a mean choc chip cookie too.

        I think he exemplifies the GIVE first, get later ideal which I constantly harp on.

        As for gardening, no thanks, however, I am an EXPERT eater when your harvest comes in.

        GordonJ

        May not be anything more satisfying than getting your hands dirty in the Spring, and enjoying your efforts come Fall. Well, for some us, there are a lot of things MORE satisfying, but for those who do it and love, its a woowoo (spiritual) experience at its core.
        Because of my messed up lower back traditional gardening is not something I am able to do. But look like I have new channels to check out for gardening. Most don't get into the selling parts

        I typed in mikes name to you tube and subscribed before watching and videos.

        That is already a winning line. Be yourself every one else is taken

        When I can I will buy his books from Amazon the one on small business or marketing small business looks looks interesting.

        I like his marketing so far. One thing from studying marketing I enjoy good marketing
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      • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        Could be the nicest marketer I've worked with and just really nice people. Pam makes a mean choc chip cookie too.

        I think he exemplifies the GIVE first, get later ideal which I constantly harp on.
        I know Mike well. He is perhaps the most giving and kindest person I know. It's an honor to be considered his friend.
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  • Profile picture of the author VictorLoanz90
    I'd like to consider myself as a bit superstitious due to my background and upbringing my mom taught me many age old spiritual traditions passed on in my family such as if you step out the house don't instantly return even if you forgot something no matter how important it is keep heading towards your path and don't look back another one is if you are putting on your Jean belt and skip a belt hole it can be an indication of infidelity lol and thirdly if your right palm is itchy it can be a sign of some loot coming your way , I know their weird but those are some of many woo woo beliefs and traditions shared amongst my folks
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Thanks for bringing this up.

      Normally, someone pushes back at me when I say most childen are raised in a state of military RENDITION (the rules of law don't apply, and interrogation, detention and
      subjection to discomfort are present)...and because of this, those early childhood influences can sabotage us for a lifetime.

      Family folklore lands on this square.

      And it is also a reason why so many can not MODEL success, the do what I did, get what I got mantra of the Tony Robbins like crowd. Some can't model success because of the built in governors in their minds put there by loving family members.

      Seldom intentional, but powerfully influential are the lessons of our childhood as to what we can and can't, or should or shouldn't do. These etched in our minds "rules of life" can be either helpful (Rich Dad) or detrimental (Poor Dad).

      Some of these "superstitions", especially from some sort of fundamentalism or strict religious doctrines can not be rooted out without a lot of effort, after awareness of their existence.

      Maybe we all have some of these growing in our thoughts beneath the conscious surface?

      GordonJ



      Originally Posted by VictorLoanz90 View Post

      I'd like to consider myself as a bit superstitious due to my background and upbringing my mom taught me many age old spiritual traditions passed on in my family such as if you step out the house don't instantly return even if you forgot something no matter how important it is keep heading towards your path and don't look back another one is if you are putting on your Jean belt and skip a belt hole it can be an indication of infidelity lol and thirdly if your right palm is itchy it can be a sign of some loot coming your way , I know their weird but those are some of many woo woo beliefs and traditions shared amongst my folks
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  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    I'd like to present TWO good articles, if you are interested in more woowoo understanding, or to see what many people maybe even a majority believe, OK?

    The first is a good article by a skeptic and a pretty decent writer of human beings being human. All links are educational, no affiliation, it is always good to explore what other people think outside of WF/IM, don't you agree?

    https://www.raptitude.com/2021/03/a-...robably-works/

    This succinct article and the four stages of woowoo acceptance are keen.

    This second one starts off with this:

    You are here: Home / Personal Development / Cognitive Biases: Weeding Our Mental Garden
    Cognitive Biases: Weeding Our Mental Garden
    January 16, 2018 by Jonathan Vieker 2 Comments

    I'm pretty sure you and I are on the same page.

    As smart, hard-working people who want to get smarter, we're on a lifelong quest for personal development. No, we're not into woo-woo mysticism or law-of-attraction nonsense, but we are interested in making a conscious effort to get better at life. We want to improve, not just pass the time.

    Oh yea, of course we are SMART, hard-working people...and NO we don't get into woowoo...and I love the arrogance of these types who value their intelligence and certainty above all else...anyhow, he does do a nice overview of cognitive bias.

    https://jonathanvieker.com/cognitive...mental-garden/

    We as marketers wanting to exchange value with others, are apt to study all that will help us either in a transactional nature or personal growth, and the transaction is much easier to understand and achieve before the growth part.

    I introduced woowoo as a MIND topic, and my definition goes toward keeping the thread in that direction, although, you are free to submit an alternative definition which we all may find helpful and USEFUL.

    No one can state absolutely that the study of woowoo, or even soft woo (psychology) as opposed to hard science (gravity) is beneficial for everyone, but I think here at the WF, there are many who would benefit from a little woowoo introduced into their lives.

    Salespeople, copywriters and successful marketers do know about bias, belief and many, even BS, all of which is used to complete an IM transaction.

    Let me know if the topic is worth pursuing, fair enough?

    GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Exceptional post: Thanks Gordon. : )

    The problem that many People make is dismissing all of something ― sometimes even the whole of Personal Development ― just because some of it is "woo-woo". And so they miss out on a lot a great information/knowledge. Even if a book (or concept etc.) is 80% "woo-woo", it's still worth reading and considering (IMO).

    For example, I don't agree with everything about "The Law Of Attraction" ... However there are parts of it that I find empowering ... (Like practicing gratitude for example.)

    Anyway, thanks for the great post.

    [Added=] Here the term "woo-woo" means information that isn't proven/useful/practical enough. Some of it can be helpful ― amazing even. : )
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

      Exceptional post: Thanks Gordon. : )

      The problem that many People make is dismissing all of something ― sometimes even the whole of Personal Development ― just because some of it is "woo-woo". And so they miss out on a lot a great information/knowledge. Even if a book (or concept etc.) is 80% "woo-woo", it's still worth reading and considering (IMO).

      For example, I don't agree with everything about "The Law Of Attraction" ... However there are parts of it that I find empowering ... (Like practicing gratitude for example.)

      Anyway, thanks for the great post.
      The problem I run into with people I talk to . Is is people try an get others around the on the self development train and massively hold them selves back.

      Steve Wozniak started apple with starve jobs and learned to make computers because that was the only way he could own it . Jobs took the course in typesetting and fonts out of his own personal interests.

      The McDonald's brothers wanted to make a few million bucks.

      The self in self improvement seems to get defined in a restricted way.


      So a large number of little things a person can do to improve their lives get discounted. Or discounted as pure selfishness.

      The mindset of go big or don't bother. So people need to become aware of the thousands of missed opportunities to improve their lives in a small way every day. Instead of waiting for some thing big to manifest to improve them.

      People tend not be aware of the Lind development process of the people who have done great things. They go to the classical music symphony and don't grasp the tens of thousands of times those playing had to practice the same music.
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        ,
        Did Mother Teresa do great things or was she very seflish, getting her sustenance from doing God's work according to her faith?

        Did Donald Trump do great things, in business or as a President?

        Not right or wrong answers to either but a stark contrast between what others believe as GREAT things or great people.

        I don't know what Lind development process is. But I think those people who actually spend their money and GO to the concerts, say of the Cleveland Orchestra, certainly do have an understanding and appreciation of the time and talent it took those folks to earn their seats.

        We pay tall guys who can throw a football 20 million a year because the man off the street can't do it.

        And at the risk of being contrainian about this: "missed opportunities to improve their lives" carries a judgment with it of other peoples lives...and they may think/feel they don't want to improve, so no opportunties were missed.

        GordonJ

        QUOTE=Odahh;11694942]The problem I run into with people I talk to . Is is people try an get others around the on the self development train and massively hold them selves back.

        Steve Wozniak started apple with starve jobs and learned to make computers because that was the only way he could own it . Jobs took the course in typesetting and fonts out of his own personal interests.

        The McDonald's brothers wanted to make a few million bucks.

        The self in self improvement seems to get defined in a restricted way.


        So a large number of little things a person can do to improve their lives get discounted. Or discounted as pure selfishness.

        The mindset of go big or don't bother. So people need to become aware of the thousands of missed opportunities to improve their lives in a small way every day. Instead of waiting for some thing big to manifest to improve them.

        People tend not be aware of the Lind development process of the people who have done great things. They go to the classical music symphony and don't grasp the tens of thousands of times those playing had to practice the same music.[/QUOTE]
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        • Profile picture of the author Profit Traveler
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          • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
            Thanks profit traveler,

            I do know a few dog whistles, wasn't INTENDED here, but I get it is a word which comes with a lot of baggage, hard to trump it as a trigger.

            You raise a good point for the discussion, those who say there is a reality and that those who chose woo, don't want to live in it. As a child, I saw several co-existing realities, alternative in their belief. An uncle hated Catholics (he was the Mel Gibson in reverse, being a baptist, although his brother was a charismatic, and that created sparks).

            Most of the adults in my childhood life were CERTAIN their faith was the right one, catholic friend was sure I was going to hell for eating pepperoni pizza on a Friday...although a couple of months later, when he grabbed a slice and I called him on it, he told me he had a get out of hell free card, called CONFESSION. His reality was as certain as his parents and their friends.

            So, I have a bit of a problem when anyone tells me what reality is...outside of lunancy, such as a flat earth, or trump is a reptile, but, it would help if we (I) understood what reality we woo folks want to escape from?

            We live. We die. In between, we have a LOT of say in our experiences, that is my basic reality. I also beleive that most people surrender the say in their experiences.

            GordonJ



            Ah my wonderful friend Gordon whom I respect immensely...

            There is a term called Triggering on Social Media and the word Trump is surely the apex example. .[/QUOTE]
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      We hail from hillbilly country, back in the hollers of W.Virgina, Mayland and PA, around the Accident Md, region.

      And the wisest hillbilly of the clan, Ol Unc Eldred Q. Zuggins used to say: (witr translations)

      " Usen (we) humbeans (humans) be simple minded wantin stories of success or failure and revlen (enjoying) in both our suffering and jealouslies."

      Somehow, I think Ol Unc El would get along with PrincessB, just a guess.

      As to his, and your points.

      I'm hardly the first to talk about the importance of stories. When I was first introduced to woowoo, it wasn't. As a kid without having been "rendered", and maybe it was the times, but Ma and Pa didn't worry that much about me, other than to make sure I was around and in one piece, they did a good job of that.

      But the freedom I had as a kid along with my older brother but not the younger siblings was pretty common in the rural suburbs of the remnant hapy days of the 50's.

      So when I was reading books on astrology, occult, alt religions, there wasn't a firestorm in the house, they were glad I as able to read.

      I would suppose my parents might be classifed as those who thought information, of any kind...needed to be "proven, useful, practical", so as RESULTS were what was more important than dogma, or doctrines. I think the Great Depression and WWII
      shaped their experiences in this direction.

      At a very early age I realized those with the answers, didn't have MINE!

      Not parents, teachers, friends or relatives and certainly not the CERTAIN who knew absolute truths of a varied nature.

      But, long before Blair Warren wrote his one sentence persuasion message, Ol Unc's wisdom about what we HumBeans want...sort of forms the foundation of marketing too.

      In the woowoo, or any of the fringes or tall grass areas of life, we find out what works for ourselves, and we FEEL growth as we apply our personal realizations and become someone's story, either at the top, bottom of half way up/down the mountain.

      GordonJ


      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

      Exceptional post: Thanks Gordon. : )

      The problem that many People make is dismissing all of something ― sometimes even the whole of Personal Development ― just because some of it is "woo-woo". And so they miss out on a lot a great information/knowledge. Even if a book (or concept etc.) is 80% "woo-woo", it's still worth reading and considering (IMO).

      For example, I don't agree with everything about "The Law Of Attraction" ... However there are parts of it that I find empowering ... (Like practicing gratitude for example.)

      Anyway, thanks for the great post.

      [Added=] Here the term "woo-woo" means information that isn't proven/useful/practical enough. Some of it can be helpful ― amazing even. : )
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    I have been processing a lifetime of information for a good while now, and I am both respectful and highly grateful for all in which we inherit from the positive and negative influences alike.

    Much of what we share - if not, ALL of what we come to appreciate, inherit, and share with others cannot be achieved without some form of bias - be it; "woo-woo" or downright proven scientifically, mathematically, or that to wit; holds tangible and/or intrinsic values.

    However, as I feel to be privileged to continually explore the works and the minds of brilliant people - past and present - it remains impossible for me to comprehend (*again, my bias cannot be hidden easily) - how it is people can navigate through life without a compass, a map, a legend, or a clue as to the definition of "hidden treasures" - as we all share stock in seeking to fuel our being through an infinite supply of knowledge, tools, training, and EXISTING resources needed to preserve, protect, and provision for either ourselves from the individual level -or- as the whole of humanity from a heightened perspective view.

    I was raised as a Christian - baptized, sealed upon my forehead an anointed cross of protection - and with reverence to the unknown, foreign, and/or alien nature of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

    I seldom identify today as a Christian, as the bias, the limited views, and the religious dogmas - never seemed to truly satisify that itch - or- the need to know the TRUTH!

    Whilst, I do not easily dismiss a great deal of the teachings, my origins, tradition, heritage, and long ancestral lineage that supported those Western Philosophical teachings - thereto, I reserve a certain measure of cognitive bias - as it would be ignorant to ignore - EVERY culture had or continues to have (or carry within) a similar - if not, identical teaching.

    I mean to me - nearly all religious, spiritual, and/or mythological teachings carry both bias and an element of our own ignorance - for we simply cannot know everything, the identity of the external forces in totality, or in any likelihood retain the WHOLE TRUTH - for if we did, we would likely be robbed in silky white robes with flowers in our hair, and be humping like wild bunnies!

    So, when we enter these realms of "woo-woo' - I truly feel we should remain skeptical and optimistic towards ALL that remains unknown, foreign, or alien to our mind-spirit's ability to conceive ANY subject - be it political, academic, religious (*I prefer spiritual), cultural, pharmaceutical, financial, or even media induced - as ALL of these hold some positive and negative woo-woo, or that which we either do not yet know - or - simply cannot know without evolving our mind - body -spirit to greater understandings.

    Thereto, as I continually feel guided by a compelling urgency to overwrite my worldly biases - still, I cannot help to reserve some bias towards those who prefer to impose, impress, influence, impact, impair, impale, or implode their one-sided bias upon the whole - as if to have appointed themselves as gods over the lesser - when in reality, a large percentage of the "minority" would be severally suffered - had the "majority" sought to reclaim all-in-which has been stolen (*directly or indirectly) through the maleficent uses of psychology, philosophy, mythology, biology, socio-economics, history, and a host of other well-respected fields of study.

    The inferiority and negative influence the "minority" imposes upon the "majority" - be it intentionally negative or simply the individual's inability to conceive "outside the box" enough to explore beyond what appears to be limited-beliefs or limited-access to an abundance of resources - resonates through the fabric of time, space, energy, mass, and matter to the extent; we deny our "Rightful Inheritance" on the account of fearing what we "know not!"

    The human mind is hard-wired to do just that - protect, preserve, and provide the means to sustain your life - avoid danger, illness, disease, and especially; death!

    However, wise philosophers, professors, and teachers alike "do not" support the mainstream or institutionalized schools of thought to such a degree - one should simply accept or deny ANY one subject, teaching, or exploration in seeking one's greater understanding of the universal truth - over that of what many blindly accept as the worldly truths.

    In light of these negative behaviors - the imbalances of say; "The Global Economic Scales" - there is without a doubt a negative balance in much of what "we as a whole" were raised to accept as truth - or - that which was believed and influenced - by others - as a path for us to follow.

    Meanwhile, every renown teacher (*most whom I would have labeled a bit woo-woo in my early years) have now resurfaced - bringing new meaning - almost in an indescribable manner - like supernatural - superimposing - or - downright leaving me to question; EVERYTHING we were taught to blindly accept as NORMAL!

    Today, I would describe NORMAL as being woo-woo AF!

    Normal is obedience to the systemic suck, and obeying what others either insist or demand - as is so with most of the aforementioned institutionalized and systematical influencers that began - long before our arrival.

    One example being;

    Child bearing.

    In the civilized version - you bring a pregnant woman to the local hospital after her water breaks. (*If your not into at home birth - which is practical frowned upon these days, in many civilized cultures) to wit; we could almost compare the process to a 72-hour "Baker Act" for someone undergoing mental illness.

    Granted - this is a different reason for visiting the hospital and "The Baker Act" suggests the individual is not medically or mentally fit to decide what is best for his/her own safety - thus, giving in essence the "power of attorney" to a licensed medical professional to determine; if the subject or individual is a direct threat to his/herself or a threat to society at large.

    Meanwhile, back to the typical maternity ward, child bearing process - and the socially accepted (*almost institutionalized) protocols - a woman goes straight to the hospital to be monitored and cared for while giving birth and for a day or two thereafter.

    What fascinates me and equally perplexes me is the ideology of the hospital as a "BUSINESS" suggests; we need that bed for the next pregnant woman and in essence, billing purposes for services rendered.

    Yet, let's examine a few biological and proven facts about child bearing...

    1.) The hospital (*or parent in many cases) cuts the ambilocal cord just moments after the child arrives.

    2.) After a short bonding with baby, Mother, and in some cases - the Father (*or family) present during the birthing process - the child is wrapped and taken to another room for examinations, cleansing, and I don't know the exact details or extent of the actual procedures - but is then probed, prodded, and possible injected with specific medicines, etc...
    3.) The average healthy birth - whereas, Mother and newborn are declared healthy - generally takes place with a turn-over rate of 72 hours or less. (*Unless, there are complications, of course)

    So, like the "Baker Act" example of a 72 hour hold for evaluation - we see a similar turn-over rate for newborns and the Mother being cared for about the same length of time. Again - totally differing circumstances - (*hopefully she; The Mother - wasn't "Baker Acted" while having a baby or impregnated while under a "Baker Act" - raw dark humor escapes me!)

    My point???

    I think it is scientifically proven that a newborn should not have the ambilocal cord cut immediately, the white film should not be wiped of the newborn's skin, and outside of checking the child and mother's vital statistics - should not require being probed, prodded, or need any outside medicines, injections, or examinations!

    Still, the hospital performs these tasks, the turn-over rate is nearly identical to the 72-hour Baker Act - and the business of both centers on "billing/invoicing" - over that of being respectful to both the mother and the newborn having proper time to bond, absorb, and retain the nutrients intended by NATURE at birth!

    To me - Hospitals are WOO-WOO, and outside of giving birth - I had the displeasure as a teenager of being Baker Acted (*although I was forceable removed by 3 bikers - true story for another time) in just under 36 hours - so not to have stayed the entire 72 hour Baker Act, and I have bore witness to my own 3 biological children's births at Broward General Hospital in Fort Lauderdale, Florida!

    At that time - I was oblivious, ignorant, and had no foreknowledge of the sciences that suggest; a child should remain connected to the ambilical cord longer than most hospitals permit - the white film (*motherly nutrients and vitamins on the newborns membranes) is critical to allowing that child to develop properly and absorb as much nutrition at birth as possible.

    In closing - to cut the cord to soon, wipe the child clean, and then remove the child so quickly from the mother's arms, breast, or presence suggests; "These people are INSANE!" and knowingly endangering the baby, the bond, and the proper procedures, and WHY SO?

    MONEY - turn-over rates, invoicing and billing.

    Let alone the trauma a newborn must endure when being poked, prodded, probed, and possibly injected nearly immediately after birth - sickens me, and leaves to wonder; "How is it each generation seems less disciplined and more controlled than the last - if there is no fowl play in the systems we were taught to blindly know, trust, and ultimately RESPECT?"

    No need to guess which science my bias supports!

    The other science is beyond woo-woo - they are control freaks, insane, and be it this life or the next we need to bring the balance back to the majority - I always had that internal hunger - though, I still cannot truly define WHY do I care about how hospitals, institutions, or the system operates - I alone cannot change it, right?

    And, as it appears; "NORMAL" is woo-woo as "The Majority" lack the courage or desire to stand against any goliath that implies they will suffer punishment - if ever, they attempt to do so.

    But, all-the-while, "The Majority" have been robbed, tormented, and ill-equipped based on such limited beliefs, fowl teachings, practices, and authoritarian rulers since mankind started documenting life on cave walls, pig skins, parchment, and now digitally!

    Nothing changes - the numbers don't lie - people do!

    That to me is the ULTIMATE WOO-WOO - as would be for us (*The Majority) to continually ignore all the warnings, signs, and tell-tale stories that suggest:

    - Speak or promote the TRUTH (*like Christ) You'll be crucified!!!

    - Seek knowledge - you will be punished!

    - Disobey - you will be punished!

    I used to believe; I was wrong (*and punished most of my life) for standing against such bias, here I am at 50 - and after multiples of awakenings (*not one) - tuned to C.G. Jung's (Shadow System), Joseph Campbell's ("Follow Your Bliss" - "The Heroes Journey"), and countless others from ALL cultural wise teachings; Hermetic - ("The Kybalion" -Trismegistus Hermes), The Tablet - )"As Above - So Below - Thoth)" - Christianity/Catholic - (The Holy Bible" Holy Trinity) - Buddhism -Tao - Daoism -Hinduism - (Dharma) - and every culture, country, and tribe alike - has a core virtue or value system!

    Anything less than pursuing "The Truth" to me - is beyond "Woo-Woo" - it's bat sh!t crazy to ignore the demand to be counter-intuitive to such menial and sustained threats - as these problems span - 3000+ year old issues, whereas, the majority blindly accept "What is" and seldom (*if ever) deviate from the paths of least resistance that are both heavily trodden and hold little (*if any) resources.

    Burying one's talents - doesn't work, tried that a bunch of times!

    Ignoring the facts - doesn't produce befitting results!

    Going gangster - might work in some cases, but not over longevity!

    The BIG SECRET to me, isn't a secret at all, it's not magic, VooDoun, or pill or potion...

    It's "The Philosophers Stone! - mentally turning what would otherwise be rendered worthless and turn it into the equivalence of GOLD through compartmentalization's and mentalizing the pre-conceived outcome, not an easy climb, if you are toting a bunch of DEAD WEIGHT and useless to bear such unnecessary guilt, burden, or indifference - when the majority are all seeking the same things; resources to either sustain or enhance their quality of living.

    Lastly, I find it both fascinating and equally haunting that I was writing in journals and purely for personal reasons (*or so I once thought!) and now I am freaking out as the teachings are confirming those writings are something bigger than I;myself could've ever imagined - as I began selfishly seeking answers - never realizing those answers come from places I cannot truly difine without giving reverence to the unknown - call it what you choose, it's all the same - as those that found out these things before we were born in many cases!

    What to do with it(???) - that still keeps me up at night feeding the mind/spirit, lol

    TLDR... Sorry, I've been burning the midnight oils and this subject hits the core of EVERYTHING - I am currently trying to process, which is a lot to take in and frame out!!
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    Atop a tree with Buddha ain't a bad place to take rest!
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    I could get super specific into my beliefs and understandings etc... but...

    Each and every person is where they need to be... Myself included, could be further along on the journey...

    But we like to be hit in the face with 2x4's multiple times before we realize that maybe another choice/path at this moment is needed.

    "Enlightenment" is being in the NOW, the moment.. and with that a musical share...


    Yes, I am a techno head... Yes I love my Son, I love my wife, but music is my mistress

    Music is the expression, by playing or the act of listening of your inner being.. your current state of mind... Music lifts you, or sends you deeper - what you play and what you listen to are choices...

    Ah choices.. are there choices? or is there opportunities to select again, and again and again - the 2x4 in the face - over and over and over - choose wisely says the wise man on the mountain, choose wisely.
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    Success is an ACT not an idea
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Thanks savidge4 for the share.

      Being in the NOW is incredibly hard for many people, and it requires habit, discipline or danger. Woodworkers who daydream may have nicknames like "pinky" or "leftie".

      People who can do their jobs and be somewhere else mentally are usually in the past or near future, at lunch or dinner.

      Here is one technique (other than SWITCH words, which I mainly use) to get my mind focused on the NOW,

      Count slowly down from 5---4---3---2---1-= and then say the KEY, or one idea, and I have many MUSICAL keys which help. But my GO TO, overall life philosophy can be found by saying the words END OF THE LINE.

      The Traveling Wilbury's crush it on this track. When I use this technique, I get instantly into a state of mind or no worries, no problems without even thinking about the music...it is so ingrained just the title and the countdown initiates an altered state.

      https://youtu.be/UMVjToYOjbM

      Music is a powerful way to self influence. It may not be found in any Pharmacological Drug Classification book, but it acts as a powerful drug in altering our mental chemistry.

      As you say, the future never comes, there is only the fleeting now to live in...but I think many Warriors can live better in the NOW, if they plan for the future which will come (gods willing and Creek don't rise).

      No need to climb the mountain sez the wiser man in the valley, everything you need is here.

      GordonJ (lending a hand)


      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      I could get super specific into my beliefs and understandings etc... but...

      Each and every person is where they need to be... Myself included, could be further along on the journey...

      But we like to be hit in the face with 2x4's multiple times before we realize that maybe another choice/path at this moment is needed.

      "Enlightenment" is being in the NOW, the moment.. and with that a musical share...

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zdOC8-paf4

      Yes, I am a techno head... Yes I love my Son, I love my wife, but music is my mistress

      Music is the expression, by playing or the act of listening of your inner being.. your current state of mind... Music lifts you, or sends you deeper - what you play and what you listen to are choices...

      Ah choices.. are there choices? or is there opportunities to select again, and again and again - the 2x4 in the face - over and over and over - choose wisely says the wise man on the mountain, choose wisely.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    The further one can see out into the future the more able they are to work and experience the now. The behavior based diseases of today develop of decades. Unless there is a genetic issue.

    Art mention the minority who control the masses. I'm getting the feeling Gordon has met several in that minority. And from what I observed it less control and more execution on plans that stretch over many decades. Much of the control is from within the masses.

    Jeff bezos , Elon musk, warren buffet. And others work in far longer time frames than is common even in business today. And with in those timeframes what they need to get done today is in line with the long term.

    When bill gate was talking about computers on every deck and every home in 1980 . Iit was crazy talk to the masses and maybe the experts. The experts still think much of what Elon says is crazy talk.

    Woo woo can easily fit in the category of anything that current science or the experts in any area thin is fancy based thinking.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      There is a group that thinks goals are a waste of time. Others live by them.

      When traveling, I like to use a map. If life is a journey, it makes sense to those of us who think that a map is a handy tool to have on the journey.

      Seeing into the future. I see TONY ROBBINS in my future from around Jan. 25. Watch youtube, or visit his site, and see a master marketer at work. He may get as many as a million people to tune into his five day 90min. sales pitches, er, uh, I mean seminars.

      He is offering an upsell for 197, a downsell for 47 and you can bet your bippy he has some really expensive experiences for a few, for thousands of dollars.

      So, there is a lesson this month, visit his site, watch the video, sign up, pay if you want, not necessary to learn, and see how a funnel works. Upsells, downsells, backends, and all the strategies and tapping into BIAS, and NLP and sales technique from a modern WOOWOO master, a 10th degree black belt in persuasion.

      Although most of us don't want a business of personality, for those that do, you won't find a better model than Tony. And even then, there are lessons in IM for those are keen to learn how to make an offer, copywriting, presentation, secret associations...the whole 9 yards of woowoo cloth which has made Tony a multimillionaire extraordinare.

      I think he might be in that minority, isn't he?

      GordonJ


      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      The further one can see out into the future the more able they are to work and experience the now. The behavior based diseases of today develop of decades. Unless there is a genetic issue.

      Art mention the minority who control the masses. I'm getting the feeling Gordon has met several in that minority. And from what I observed it less control and more execution on plans that stretch over many decades. Much of the control is from within the masses.

      Jeff bezos , Elon musk, warren buffet. And others work in far longer time frames than is common even in business today. And with in those timeframes what they need to get done today is in line with the long term.

      When bill gate was talking about computers on every deck and every home in 1980 . Iit was crazy talk to the masses and maybe the experts. The experts still think much of what Elon says is crazy talk.

      Woo woo can easily fit in the category of anything that current science or the experts in any area thin is fancy based thinking.
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        A good thing about Tony is, in his programs he discusses more than just financial, although that is one of his evergreen niches.

        We speak of balance here, and that discussion goes in all directions. So, how many areas of your life are there to FOCUS on and work on if you want?

        Obviously, our bodies are a big issue, sometimes too big and we want to shrink it down a bit.

        Relationships are near and dear to our hearts.

        Where we live an how, so our environment is important.

        As we see in these posts, spirit or belief is on people's minds.

        Speaking of Tony (thank you GJ) I have some very ANECDOTAL evidence, totally unresearched or unscientific, just my personal contact with people who have been to a TR seminar, or bought a book and course and set upon a TR guided journey.

        I think it was in 1997 I mentioned Tony in a newsletter I wrote for a marketer and the topic was 20 years of Biz Op, the winners, the losers and flukes. Although Tony didn't offer a Biz-Op so to speak, his teachings were embraced by the community that did.

        So I've 'followed' some folks journies and there is a common element, they still love Tony and his teachings, GLAD they invested in the book, course or seminar, yet,

        not having realized their goals or potential as they set out to do when they were all excited and getting started.

        Cialdini might call this committment and consistency. Commit your dollars to a guru and you are likely to keep him in high praise, while not listening nor following his advice.

        Many TR followers fell short of their goals or did not obtain their potential as they set out to do.

        And of course, the fault is on them.

        Millions of people have been under the influence of TR, and he does have THOUSANDS of testimonials, but I doubt millions.

        Why do you think people will get excited about this guru or the latest PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT idea that comes down the pike, and not too long later, will have moved on and no longer give their guru much thought?

        Do effects of their techniques and strategies wear off? Or do we just default to our old habits and comfort zones? Or do we forget why we even wanted to improve our self?

        GordonJ

        P.S. Many copywriters don't like the word manipulation, even as they do it on their readers, but TR is a master manipulator/persuader and is very worthy of study.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

          So, how many areas of your life are there to FOCUS on and work on if you want?
          The hard to comprehend answer is ONE, anyone... Light will spill its way into any and every other aspect. Use a bowl, clean a bowl. 10 pushups a day, Tell every member of your family "I love you" any time you are departing ( for me that is a lot during the average day ) - They ( Wife and Son ) hear it repeatedly.

          You simply can NOT have balance in one aspect of your life and NOT all of the others... So striving for just a small aspect... Use a bowl clean a bowl, ( and doing it consistently, I might add ) its that opportunity that allows one to bring darkness to light.
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          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            The hard to comprehend answer is ONE, anyone... Light will spill its way into any and every other aspect. Use a bowl, clean a bowl. 10 pushups a day, Tell every member of your family "I love you" any time you are departing ( for me that is a lot during the average day ) - They ( Wife and Son ) hear it repeatedly.

            You simply can NOT have balance in one aspect of your life and NOT all of the others... So striving for just a small aspect... Use a bowl clean a bowl, ( and doing it consistently, I might add ) its that opportunity that allows one to bring darkness to light.
            One. We have different perspectives .everyone has a different perspective.

            One tree is one tree a million trees makes one forest. One soldier is one soldier thousands or tens of thousands of soldiers makes one army.

            One person in LA decided to plant a garden in front of his house and started a movement called gangster gardening.

            Improve your life in ways that radiate out to improve those around you and the world at large. I look at improvement in terms of mental and physical well-being and improved day to day experience.

            We live in a system/ country where 70 percent or more of the people don't take care of their health and are either overweight or obese and in the process of developing insulin resistance or diabetes and the cost of diabetes is staggering.

            But also the way the unhealthy food is being produced is a major contributor to the environmental damage and climate weirdness we are seeing.

            So every person who takes better care of their health contributes to solving at least too problems for the wide one world.

            And the more people willing to buy more nutrient dense foods the more that becomes a priority for people producing food than yield.
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

              One. We have different perspectives .everyone has a different perspective.

              One tree is one tree a million trees makes one forest. One soldier is one soldier thousands or tens of thousands of soldiers makes one army.

              One person in LA decided to plant a garden in front of his house and started a movement called gangster gardening.

              Improve your life in ways that radiate out to improve those around you and the world at large. I look at improvement in terms of mental and physical well-being and improved day to day experience.

              We live in a system/ country where 70 percent or more of the people don't take care of their health and are either overweight or obese and in the process of developing insulin resistance or diabetes and the cost of diabetes is staggering.

              But also the way the unhealthy food is being produced is a major contributor to the environmental damage and climate weirdness we are seeing.

              So every person who takes better care of their health contributes to solving at least too problems for the wide one world.

              And the more people willing to buy more nutrient dense foods the more that becomes a priority for people producing food than yield.
              You need to re-read what I said... because you are on some different page from a different book. MINE ME MY transcendent nature has nothing to do with YOU or the other guy or the 70% of this group... NOTHING... and THATS the point - Inner peace is the letting go of the external self and all the conditions and percentages and the other trees in the forest.... Again RE READ what I posted, cuz you missed the point
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              • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                You need to re-read what I said... because you are on some different page from a different book. MINE ME MY transcendent nature has nothing to do with YOU or the other guy or the 70% of this group... NOTHING... and THATS the point - Inner peace is the letting go of the external self and all the conditions and percentages and the other trees in the forest.... Again RE READ what I posted, cuz you missed the point
                Different worlds man we are from and in different worlds.
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          • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
            You are right, this is hard for ME to comprehend because...

            I have NO idea what light and dark is, seems to be a subjective idea and when woowoo goes in this direction, I find it loses practicality for me. Obviously, it doesn't for you.

            This came out of left field, or staying with baseball, a curve ball. When one does exercise, from a practical point of view, they are working on their health (body) and eating can be both a good thing or bad thing re health. Talking to loved ones is about nurturing relationships.

            So, although I am not sure I know what Odahh is saying either, I think maybe I'm somewhere in between.

            Tony Robbins helps people work on different aspects of their oneness, I guess.

            I teach it is one highway or one circus with five rings, or five lanes, and that FOCUS depends on which lane you are in on your highway.

            Financial.
            Enviromental.
            Relationships.
            Mental.
            Spiritual.

            Some people have many more areas of their life they want to work on and there are some who ARE out of balance, but it is on them for knowing this, and then doing something to change it if they want.

            But I don't know the light from the dark.
            I do know NEED/want/lack/poverty from abundance/wealth/satisfaction sort of thing.

            Maybe I just am too dense to seperate light from dark.

            Gordon

            P.S. Might explain why all my white tee shirts are mostly dirty gray, didn't wash them with only whites.


            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            The hard to comprehend answer is ONE, anyone... Light will spill its way into any and every other aspect. Use a bowl, clean a bowl. 10 pushups a day, Tell every member of your family "I love you" any time you are departing ( for me that is a lot during the average day ) - They ( Wife and Son ) hear it repeatedly.

            You simply can NOT have balance in one aspect of your life and NOT all of the others... So striving for just a small aspect... Use a bowl clean a bowl, ( and doing it consistently, I might add ) its that opportunity that allows one to bring darkness to light.
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

              You are right, this is hard for ME to comprehend because...

              I have NO idea what light and dark is, seems to be a subjective idea and when woowoo goes in this direction, I find it loses practicality for me. Obviously, it doesn't for you.
              So light and dark doesn't work... duality doesn't work... lets try this CONTRAST..

              Your on a diet.. you go out for lunch...2 choices... a garden salad with grilled chicken or a double 1/2lb burger with onion rings and bacon and smothered with BBQ sauce, side of seasoned fires and a slice of triple threat chocolate cake to finish it off... we KNOW what the CHOICE willl be, and we add a diet coke into the mix to feel good about it.

              Here is the thing with "Goals" goals are set...and goals are accomplished by making mindful choices...if the goal is to lose weight...the MINDFUL choice is the garden salad... but TEMPTATION aka pleasure NOW wins the day more often than not.

              Our brains are wired for failure. Mindful thinking, and mindful choices are just hard. And why that is? NO IDEA - but its universal.

              Consistent mindful choices gets you to the completion of goals. ANY choice other than a mindful one, takes you further away from the goal... and yet, over and over the choice presents itself - choose again
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Jeff bezos , Elon musk, warren buffet. And others work in far longer time frames than is common even in business today. And with in those timeframes what they need to get done today is in line with the long term.
      I am going to disagree... Not that I "Know" any of these guys.. but I have seen documentaries... The Goal is just floated out there... There is no more than "It would be cool to live on Mars" "Or from a interview I heard the other day "It would be cool to die on Mars" ( and said with his ha im funny chuckle ) BUT that is NOT where he is right NOW... Bezos, Musk, Gates - Gates especially is knee deep in NOW... How can I do this or that.. they are reading how to get past this problem that is NOW, they arent thinking long term.. the GOAL is set and done, its the STEPS...one at a time,1 today,1 tomorrow 1 the next day.

      That is how these guys are making cars and rockets and selling books and digging tunnels and making MS Word even worse, or saving the world. They are tasking in the NOW.

      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      When bill gate was talking about computers on every deck and every home in 1980 . Iit was crazy talk to the masses and maybe the experts. The experts still think much of what Elon says is crazy talk.
      Thats NOT future talk... thats Their NOW not matching the rest of the world... when we finally catch up and it becomes our NOW...it will be their yesterday...their NOW has moved on
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    As far as goals go. I saw what retirement ment to my parents and my father had pension social security and a small mortgage payment.

    I learn how to take care of my health now and I won't have to spend hundreds on medications every month 25 years from now. If I take care of my body now so it is in a continuous regenerative state. And feed myself the food that promotes health. If I build a house that can run off renewable power. If I could grow my calorie crops and my greens I can prevent having to pay more and more every year for food and electricity .

    So it really depends what you considered a goal. And know how what todo today will effect you decades from now
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Savage

    Ok disagree To me what they do involves long term planning and execution. Once this split becomes apparent in the way we view things. It leads to a frustrating chain of discussion.

    If we can establish some way to turn the disagreement into a discussion that would be excessively joyful. Rather then a cascade of frustrating disagreements.

    In an attempt to understand what you are saying. Let me strip it down to a basic premise you might be willing to work with and expand on.

    To do this thing they want to do now that requires resources and large numbers of people. They use the stated long term goal as marketing to get those resources and as a way to explain what they are doing now.

    Many of the pieces Elon has in place between building the rockets and the boring machines and getting into the refining of materials for battery production. Make it look like asteroid mining is more the goal than getting to Mars. But that just might be my autistic pattern recognition seeing a pattern where there is non.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Savage

      Ok disagree To me what they do involves long term planning and execution. Once this split becomes apparent in the way we view things. It leads to a frustrating chain of discussion.

      If we can establish some way to turn the disagreement into a discussion that would be excessively joyful. Rather then a cascade of frustrating disagreements.

      In an attempt to understand what you are saying. Let me strip it down to a basic premise you might be willing to work with and expand on.

      To do this thing they want to do now that requires resources and large numbers of people. They use the stated long term goal as marketing to get those resources and as a way to explain what they are doing now.

      Many of the pieces Elon has in place between building the rockets and the boring machines and getting into the refining of materials for battery production. Make it look like asteroid mining is more the goal than getting to Mars. But that just might be my autistic pattern recognition seeing a pattern where there is non.
      To goto Mars, you have to build a rocket... TODAY, NOW is he going to mars or is he building a rocket? MARS is the goal, and the here and now he is building a rocket. The technology from the CAR and the SOLAR... how do you think Mars will be powered?

      Do the controls of the rocket look like "Spacecraft controls" or do they resemble a Tesla? I would dare say the whole of Elon's efforts are ends to means with the goal of MARS and beyond hanging like a carrot in front of a donkey.

      In regards to Boring... subterranean building makes a lot of sense...more sense than mining. Lithium mining is digging a pit and filling trucks as fast as you can to get the raw material to a processing plant... but oh wait... I think the number is like 98% of ALL lithium concentrate is turned into useable material in CHINA.

      but lets get back on topic shall we... "Be in the moment" is about as "woowoo" as it gets you are not acting in premeditation; you are not reacting...you are ACTING in the moment... You are not setting expectations; you are not judging - you are just ebbing with the flow. What is right in front of me right now.

      This very set of principles applies to spirituality, to woowoo to life in general, and in business.

      in eastern philosophy... Buddhism in particular, there is a saying "Use a bowl, clean a bowl" an interesting and enlightening read on the phrase ( https://findingzen.net/blog/to-maste...-wash-the-bowl)

      I call this Clearing to neutral - powerful stuff. Use the bowl, clean the bowl, and in doing this the bowl is ready the next time you need to use it. Very much in line with the phrase everything has a place and everything in its place In a more modern world, you take the same principles and apply time, or should I say blocks of time. To achieve X, I need to do this and this and that and the other. Apply a block of time for each of this and that and the other, and clear to neutral.

      In my case, it is generally on a daily basis. There are some activities that require just once every other day, and others once a week etc... Set an amount of time, and clear to neutral. NOW, not later right?

      Physical organization is a representation of internal organization... Your ( not YOU personally ) physical surroundings are a representation of your internal surroundings.

      We very often see conflict in what we want and what is present - Yin and Yang - Projection and Manifestation. And in this is where the 2x4 likes to strike, over and over. There is an imbalance, and the universe is telling you there is an imbalance, and yet we will choose the same over and over, and the universe will keep hitting you in the face with a 2x4 saying "Choose again"

      WE are not allowing things to manifest... we are trying to WILL our way ( Projection ) and it simply doesn't work.

      ALL religions and woowoo thought process' speak of patience... and I think way to many confuse NOW, for getting NOW... and that's another point... WE don't GET anything, we are GIVEN - BUT you can only receive what you have given reminds me of: "Treat Others the Way You Want to Be Treated". Some call this "The Golden Rule"

      We exist in a world of dichotomy. Yin and Yang, Love and Fear, Light and Darkness, Good and Evil, Projection and Manifestation, Give and Take, Teaching and Learning, Joy and Pain, and the list goes on and on.

      You cant have both of any, at once...its one or the other, over and over and over - choose again
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    That I can understand and agree with

    As a practical statement use a bowl was a bowl was probably very good possibly for monks living in a monastery.

    I was the youngest in my family so I got stuck with cleaning everyone dishes many times. And where I move around and sometimes only live in an apartment a few months. I only buy one set of dinner plates and a few forks and knives. A pan . And it either clean the after each use or see the dirty dishes in the sink.

    Over time you learn not to make as much of a mess. Unless you really enjoy cleaning.

    If your not interested in enlightenment you can leave the dirty plate and hope someone else cleans it thus shift your burden onto others. But if you are on the path. You take care of your own burden with shifting it onto others.

    And monks go into monasteries at young ages so your pondered a teaching meant to teach children to clean up after themselves.

    My view is there are many of the mystical or spiritual quotes the people ponder of . The turn out to be practical instructions that can be applied to life. If you read the entire passage are many common biblical quotes it tends to be practical. A story with a message of what you should be doing.

    So yes it leads back to now
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  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
    One of the more controversial concepts in THINK AND GROW RICH was found in the chapter on the SIXTH SENSE, which is as woowoo as it gets.

    It made men like Art Williams back off of their suggestion for reading the book, although he said it was life changing, he also said he never really got past the part of setting goals.

    Whatever. Many people who do endorse Nap Hill and TAGR, skim or skip over this chapter where Napoleon Hill talks to dead people and it becomes so real in his mind, and he writes:

    These meetings became so realistic that I became fearful of their consequences and discontinued them for several months. The experiences
    were so uncanny I was afraid if I continued them I would lose sight of the
    fact that the meetings were purely experiences of my imagination.


    He goes on to write how he resumed the meetings and makes a point about the IMAGINATION, which is one of the most powerful life manifestation tools we have.

    Well, back in the 60's, when I first read TAGR I assembled my own INVISIBLE group of people to chat with. My experiences were not unlike those of the great Robin Williams who had many an invisible playmate back in his alone childhood.

    Most kids outgrow their imaginary friends, and others like Napoleon Hill tune into them as adults.

    It is not unlike a roundtable meeting, imagine for a moment, Bezos, Musk, Buffett, Jobs, Gates doing a zoom conference, sure Jobs would be from the beyond...but he left us plenty of his thoughts which we can still tap into.

    I mention all this to ask you all, how much of your IMAGINATION do you use, is it a daily part of your routines?

    I call it an ACTUATED imagination when it is purposefully tasked with either solving a problem or bringing knowledge to me when needed, or making a little magic happen (like finding a parking space).

    IMAGINATION.

    Or do you talk to dead people too like Nap Hill?

    GordonJ
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      THINK AND GROW RICH is a best seller.

      A book that was NOT a best seller was James T. Mangan's THE SECRET OF PERFECT LIVING and his introduction to SWITCHWORDS.

      If you google 'switchwords' today, you will see all kinds of things come up and then switch words (two words) will bring many different results.
      Youtube searches deliver some interesting results.

      And to the IM WF point of it all... Many people are earning money selling ideas and information about a subject as woowoo as woowoo be. Liz Dean, a Tarot Card reader, has captured her share of the market and her book on the subject isn't terrible, although I don't care for authors who use work they should be giving credit too.

      Her (Dean's) master switch TOGETHER is plucked right out of Mangan's work.

      The redeeming quality might be the explanation of using words to get the conscious and subconscious on the same page, whereas, a lot of the time they are at odds.

      And books like PSYCHO-CYBERNETICS delve into this seperation from a self-image perspective. What people see in the mirror is NOT what we may see. This is a condition called "body dysmorphia disorder", where the person focuses on and magnifies something they see as a less than perfect body and internalizes it. Maxwell Maltz wrote the book Psycho-Cybernetics after experiencing this as a plastic surgeon.

      There are very few people in woowoo who have explained the workings of SWITCHWORDS better than James T Magnan did, the bringing together of the conscious-subconscious mind.

      To the forum, there is a lot of opportunity out there from playing off of, or parlaying off of some idea, either from long ago, or more recent...meaning you don't have to be creative.

      You can create profitable works, which are in demand, when you present many woowoo ideas in a different way.

      As for the choices we make, many along the lines of pain vs. pleasure, pleasure is going to win out most of the time but we also find that many of the LIFE CHANGING choices have been surrendered long ago, and we forget about that part.

      WooWoo tools (from my perspective) should help you solve your problems in the direction of your goals. So things like Switchwords can be one of those tools that help you make a choice which slightly alters your path and just a small degree of change today leads to a big change tomorrow.

      In addition to switchwords, tools of meditation, sound and light and tools of self hypnosis, hypnosis, maybe fringe tools from NLP or other woowoo...can be applied and adapted to your own use.

      And from an Internet Marketing perspective, any interest you have in woowoo is more than likely shared with tens of thousands of people, and that signals a potential market or niche which could be easily tapped into.

      GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Gordon
    Oh boy haha. Don't really talk to people it's more visual of a concept without finer details. I can get clear images of the many of the parts but those parts never meld into one big picture.

    My imagination works more by putting many different concepts together and the works to synthesize different potentials.

    Adding in. It all collapsing in though as I can be imagining something an someone around me will start talking about it so I had someone else to bounce ideas off.

    I really have to start being careful about what I imagine as if it is possible even if very unlikely what I imagine can happen a lot faster than I expect. So I know long have the luxury of imagining things I do not want.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Yes the mindful choice is to go somewhere where you have a range of foods the taste good and are healthy. If those are the contrasting options.

    Go where you have a much wider range of healthy options or provide yourself those options.

    We still on different worlds ?
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      We still on different worlds ?
      YUP

      1 2 3 4 5 6
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        YUP

        1 2 3 4 5 6
        At least there is one thing we agree on

        In my world the point of failure is not with the person's inability to follow a diet. It with the entire concept of dieting in the first place.

        Eating more vegetables cooked to retain flavor and nutrients and pleasing to eat without adding sauces or fats. And reduce the amount of added sugar in you daily food consumption. Real easy to follow advice that people have sustained through most of history.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          At least there is one thing we agree on

          In my world the point of failure is not with the person's inability to follow a diet. It with the entire concept of dieting in the first place.

          Eating more vegetables cooked to retain flavor and nutrients and pleasing to eat without adding sauces or fats. And reduce the amount of added sugar in you daily food consumption. Real easy to follow advice that people have sustained through most of history.
          And this has what to do with Choice? With Contrast? Your reading what you want to read, and not what was intended to be read. The salad and burger would be an example of a choice, a somewhat universal one.. and you are off on how to cook and not add sugar...what the?

          Diet is very uh personal? I cant sustain myself on veggies... just doesnt happen, I am in daily calorie debt..I would lose weight if I became a vegetarian, and I actually struggle with keeping weight. I consume no less than 6000 calories a day... a CHOICE that may be right for you, may not be right for others.

          We ALL, each and every one of us follow a separate path defined by our past, our present, and our thoughts of the future. This PATH... is determined by choices made, choices we have, and choices that will be made.

          For the most part we all understand what is RIGHT for us, vs what might be wrong - DUALITY... we as humans have a very strong urge to choose incorrectly... I cant explain why... but the pattern repeats itself in every life lead through out time. And through it all... time and again we are presented with yet another choice - choose again
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Gordon

    Take a commodity add a good amount of woo and get people to pay a premium.

    Take pink salt mined in Pakistan and call back t hymilain salt and give it all types of special properties. While charging way more for it.


    The marketing for premium priced products especially those that infused quite a bit of woo is interesting
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Gordon

      Take a commodity add a good amount of woo and get people to pay a premium.

      Take pink salt mined in Pakistan and call back t hymilain salt and give it all types of special properties. While charging way more for it.


      The marketing for premium priced products especially those that infused quite a bit of woo is interesting
      The secret when adding woo as an ingredient in any product/service, is...TARGET market.

      Trying to sell pink, green or red sea salt to old people with high blood pressure is going to meet resistance. Rather than adding woo to a commodity, the woowoo niches are plenty big already, easier to just enter the parade in the middle.

      When it comes to the marketing, as many have said, a starving crowd, an enlightened crowd, a foolish crowd...or any crowd with interest will do.

      Getting the message to them at the right time becomes a challenge.

      But a little woo added to anything, is probably going to help it sell to certain markets.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        The secret when adding woo as an ingredient in any product/service, is...TARGET market.

        Trying to sell pink, green or red sea salt to old people with high blood pressure is going to meet resistance. Rather than adding woo to a commodity, the woowoo niches are plenty big already, easier to just enter the parade in the middle.

        When it comes to the marketing, as many have said, a starving crowd, an enlightened crowd, a foolish crowd...or any crowd with interest will do.

        Getting the message to them at the right time becomes a challenge.

        But a little woo added to anything, is probably going to help it sell to certain markets.

        GordonJ
        Oh definitely . Depends on the structure of your business how friendly you refer to the target market. You mentioned you like to sell stuff that gets used up or goes out of date and needs to be reordered.

        So the crowd that as long as they are into the woo they will buy over and over from you.
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        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          Oh definitely . Depends on the structure of your business how friendly you refer to the target market. You mentioned you like to sell stuff that gets used up or goes out of date and needs to be reordered.

          So the crowd that as long as they are into the woo they will buy over and over from you.
          in marketing... or selling circles that would be called "Consumables" Take a company like Kuerig.. they are in the business of selling pods.. they just so happen to sell the coffee maker than makes them.

          History will point out in the coffee sector that the likes of Mr Coffee or even any of the large coffee brands where straight up asleep for the last 50 yrs+... neither coffee brands or coffee maker brands ever crossed. Kuerig blind sided the entire industry. They created a TOLL POSITION that EVERY major brand is now paying.

          And NONE of this has to do with WOOWOO
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          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            in marketing... or selling circles that would be called "Consumables" Take a company like Kuerig.. they are in the business of selling pods.. they just so happen to sell the coffee maker than makes them.

            History will point out in the coffee sector that the likes of Mr Coffee or even any of the large coffee brands where straight up asleep for the last 50 yrs+... neither coffee brands or coffee maker brands ever crossed. Kuerig blind sided the entire industry. They created a TOLL POSITION that EVERY major brand is now paying.

            And NONE of this has to do with WOOWOO
            Yes you are right nothing to do with woo woo or spiritual things. Or enlightenment.

            So business that stays small run by one person that incorporates woo into the marketing to attract wealthier clients or clients willing to spend more.

            A kuerig is great I can prefer a refillable pod to make a cup fo10 cents . Versus the pod that can go for far more.. then add creamer and all good.

            No woo woo just providing people a way to make a great cup of coffee at home for far less than buying it in a store.
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            • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

              Yes you are right nothing to do with woo woo or spiritual things. Or enlightenment.

              With all your skills you claim to have why are you not building a large international brand.

              So business that stays small run by one person that incorporates woo into the marketing to attract wealthier clients or clients willing to spend more.
              All threads have some badminton in them, oft between two opposing ideas, and that makes for a good discussion, but we don't want them to descend into personal issues, and your second paragraph is inflammatory in my opinion, although not a mod, as the OP of the thread I assume some responsibility for it.

              You don't know what he is or isn't doing with his business, do you? So those snarky sort of comments need to be left out of the discussion, OK?

              GordonJ
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              • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                All threads have some badminton in them, oft between two opposing ideas, and that makes for a good discussion, but we don't want them to devlove into personal issues, and your second paragraph is inflammatory in my opinion, although not a mod, as the OP of the thread I assume some responsibility for it.

                You don't know what he is or isn't doing with his business, do you? So those snarky sort of comments need to be left out of the discussion, OK?

                GordonJ
                Ok I removed it . And it great if it stays a discussion on woo and related stuff. Can you remove the offending line from the quote
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            • Profile picture of the author socialentry
              i will defeat evil with the power of friendship and this gun I found.
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          • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
            Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

            in marketing... or selling circles that would be called "Consumables" Take a company like Kuerig.. they are in the business of selling pods.. they just so happen to sell the coffee maker than makes them.

            History will point out in the coffee sector that the likes of Mr Coffee or even any of the large coffee brands where straight up asleep for the last 50 yrs+... neither coffee brands or coffee maker brands ever crossed. Kuerig blind sided the entire industry. They created a TOLL POSITION that EVERY major brand is now paying.

            And NONE of this has to do with WOOWOO
            Yes, Keurig and pods changed big coffee without woowoo. But, this thread is about the woowoo. So a look at some teas, which may or may not be sold with woo...but the benefits of the tea, where the leaf came from, even the reading of them... a tea brand could be built on some woo woo factor, again, depending on the Target market.

            Consumables are used up, so I guess maybe an astological forecast is a consumable? My late friend Annie Hershey made a small fortune as an astrologer, and most of her clients were repeat, having consumed the forecast and looking ahead.

            I started the thread with a definition and invited all to bring their own if they had something different or disagreed with it.

            If you aren't interested in things that are unscientific and have unconventional beliefs, or have to do with spirituality, mysticism or alternative forms of medicine and such, this isn't a good thread to be in.

            Sometimes, as many a genius inventor (Edison springs to mind) has said and written about, they may often have their big idea or come up with their breakthrough while in a state of meditation, sleep or have ideas given to them via the subconscious, or woowoo as I defined it.

            GordonJ
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          Oh definitely . Depends on the structure of your business how friendly you refer to the target market. You mentioned you like to sell stuff that gets used up or goes out of date and needs to be reordered.

          So the crowd that as long as they are into the woo they will buy over and over from you.
          I highlighted the above for a reason.

          art72, a Warrior, took his leave of absence from the forum and recently returned, I think last month or so. He brought up his journey, and a few years ago, he never gave "woo woo" (his words) much thought and just blew it off or maybe he laughed at the idea.

          During his hiatus from the WF, he told us that some of the ideas he previously thought of as woo woo, were starting to make some sense to him now...having a change of mind apparently.

          So, and he is only an example for your point, as long as they are into woo, and what I have learned about the parade of life, it is dynamic and art72 represents many people in the parade, who may not have been INTO woo now are.

          And the opposite happens too. Maybe a Tony Robbins follower says he's had enough of Tony's woo and no longer buys anything from him.

          Of course all marketing depends on the structure of a business, what works for one may not work for another, in spite of those that would have us believe all businesses need the same thing. It just isn't so.

          In my post about the MONEY TREE, we took a common, easy to grow plant, wrote a story about good luck, and gave it some back story based on supposed Japanese folklore, about twisted palms being lucky.

          We added some woo to the plant. Now, some may want to argue this too, but the whole idea of Bonsai tree is woowoo, seed to branch. As many think Feng Shui is too.

          But that is what we are discussing in THIS thread, there are plenty of sub forums to discuss other ideas and things.

          In this mind forum, there is a long history of woo, along with organization, motivation, and a lot of brain hacks, to get to a more efficient level.

          No one has to believe woowoo, in fact, most don't that is why it is called that.

          I can't imagine operating a business where I would want an adverserial role with my customer, of course it is friendly, which is why they are the TARGET in the first place.

          So, this is the reason I chose to discuss woowoo, because it is the mind forum, where these types of things are routinely discussed, but if it is too much for a few of you, please feel free to ignore it.

          GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Gordon

    I think we have mentioned the importance of story in threads on the marketing forum.

    My view on woo is it either adds to a story or provides one where one is not.

    I would consider your remote viewing less woo woo because at the time both sides where putting resources into it. Heck and you could have easily be projecting some imagery to hide the sub from Russian remote viewers

    It woo woo or just fantasy until science researches it an proves or disproves something or we invent a device that can measure and observe.

    As we grow our areas of interest shift so we can be interested in an buying certain products for a time. Then move on to others.

    I was a bit to jingoistic with the while they are interested in woo they will buy from you line.

    But it's catchy.

    Here is the thing I still have many physical issues including an injured lower back and at43 I get arthritis flare ups that limit movement. The amount of physical work I can do in a day is limited and will probably be limited for the rest of my life.

    Now I can balance and be pain free and medications free. And in today's world that is woo woo. The more plant based I eat and the fresher food I eat the easier it is to be physically great.

    So that it where growing most of my food comes in and preparing cooking all my own food.. mostly plant based but I might have chickens for eggs or ducks for eggs meat and to render animal fat.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      First, as you go forth, DOCUMENT your journey as savidge4 advises, and you will be creating content for other people who also have physcial problems to overcome.


      The Richest Man In Bablylon
      The Greatest Salesman in the World.
      The Alchemist.
      The Knight in Rusty Armor.
      Acres of Diamonds a classic story about searching the world for riches when they are right beneath your nose (and often they are).

      Now to have some balance, here is an Anti Story tale:

      Rodger wrote a book on starting a business quickly and easily. It became a sensation.

      Then he wrote a follow up book and his followers bought it too. Then he wrote a FABLE, a story of a Ken and Karen who the reader suffered with through countless pages of their lives, from marriage, to sex failu re, to all kinds of things.

      Rodger fell into a rich man's trap, where many successful people have gone. They make a lot of money, and suddenly, their big bank account increases their I.Q. and they have the answers.

      Time and time again, like a Cyndi Lauper song, they inflate their own knowledge banks due to one success.

      One who was honest was Fred DeLuca who almost gave up, then hit the home run with SUBWAY franchises.

      Poor Fred fell into the trap, he bought his own press and thinking he had acquired a Midas Touch in business, started several very UNSUCCESSFUL businesses, where his investors lost all of THEIR money. Fred was smart enough to use other people's money, and he felt bad about their losses.

      He is one of the few guys who actually admitted he was lucky, and timing played a big part and in fact all of his millions of dollars did NOT give him a better head for business.


      We see it most often in tech success, where some nerd (with affection) makes millions and next thing you know he is a guru consultant, and outside of his one hit, never did anything else. Of course, he doesn't have to.

      Point being, just because someone is successful, and has made a lot of money, doesn't mean they can tell US how to do it, does it? We sometimes refer to the Halo effect, and guys like Fred DeLuca suffered from it.

      Stories can be, and often are the FOUNDATION of a new business, and using the idea of DOCUMENTING the journey, bodes well for most would be Entrepreneurs.

      I think both the Russians and Americans who stared at goats, knew they were into woowoo, as did J.B. Rhine of Duke U. a decade before that.

      Applying the Woo for P R A C T I C A L results is my quest, but for others, maybe just the experiences woowoo brings into their lives is enough.

      GordonJ




      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Gordon

      I think we have mentioned the importance of story in threads on the marketing forum.

      My view on woo is it either adds to a story or provides one where one is not.

      I would consider your remote viewing less woo woo because at the time both sides where putting resources into it. Heck and you could have easily be projecting some imagery to hide the sub from Russian remote viewers

      It woo woo or just fantasy until science researches it an proves or disproves something or we invent a device that can measure and observe.

      As we grow our areas of interest shift so we can be interested in an buying certain products for a time. Then move on to others.

      I was a bit to jingoistic with the while they are interested in woo they will buy from you line.

      But it's catchy.

      Here is the thing I still have many physical issues including an injured lower back and at43 I get arthritis flare ups that limit movement. The amount of physical work I can do in a day is limited and will probably be limited for the rest of my life.

      Now I can balance and be pain free and medications free. And in today's world that is woo woo. The more plant based I eat and the fresher food I eat the easier it is to be physically great.

      So that it where growing most of my food comes in and preparing cooking all my own food.. mostly plant based but I might have chickens for eggs or ducks for eggs meat and to render animal fat.
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Tony Robbins is the King of self improvement and self development.

        Yesterday, just on YouTube alone over 275 THOUSAND people from around the world tuned in to his 90+ minute presentation.

        Tony sells HOPE. And he is the best at doing it and has been for decades.

        And he does a purported 100 Million a year in business, allowing him to live in his castle by the sea, flying the helio over the CA coast, owning private islands in the S. Pacific.

        Scale Tony down. And I think tens of thousands have, you can't help but to bump into a LIFE coach no matter where you go, I'm sure GILLIGAN would have found one on his little island on the old TV show, come to think of it, I suspect Gilligan himself would make a pretty decent life coach these days.

        Life was never easy.

        There is and always has been struggle, Earth is not a friendly place...and people, YIKES, they are the real problem, aren't they?

        I wonder why so many people think and feel they have a life which is out of their control, and wonder why people like Tony Robbins are so attractive?

        Is it because their HOPE is packaged into a system? Or a course?

        20k belong to Mark Manson's Subtle Art School (at 149 a year, not too shabby).

        The hundreds of thousands which will be giving Tony Robbins coin in the coming months.

        The millions of lost souls, the ones in the Great Resignation taking place, and those seeking a better life, whatever that means to them.

        Almost all HOPE and self improvement will have as its foundation, about 98% anyhow, a single idea.

        Responsibility.

        Or as some today would call it, OWNING YOUR OWN SHITE. We make our beds, now we must sleep in them sort of thing.

        And a bit of money making irony to responsibility is how Hope sellers reassure their target markets that it is NOT their fault. Hmmmm.

        We here in the mind forum look to the alternatives at times, and maybe rule one of this sub forum might be MINDSET, which has its own meaning/following/ whatevers...

        That it all starts and some say ends, with what we think. And what we think gets acted on or doesn't.

        Where the head goes, the body follows.

        Yet so many want us to seperate our minds from our bodies and pretend they are two different things.

        I like SPIDOG as a Key Thought,

        Solving Problems In the Direction of your GOALS, if you believe in goals.

        I like the WF for having been around a long time, and we can witness how some Warriors are progressing, others not doing well and still others spinning their wheels for years and years.

        There may be as much useful, practical HOW TO information here as anywhere online, but as the old saying goes, we can lead a horse to water, but we can't make the horse drink it.

        Or as a horse person might know, give a good saltlick, and they will drink.

        What is it Warriors need to make progress?

        What, in your opinion is needed by the Warriors?

        I suspect (opinion) it might be to take some responsibility, but am I wrong?

        GordonJ
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        • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
          Interesting discussion. : )

          I'm a Tony Robbins fan as well ... In fact, many years ago when I was struggling in Life I bought his "Awaken The Giant Within" audio ― and although it didn't solve everything -- it was definitely helpful.

          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

          Tony sells HOPE. And he is the best at doing it and has been for decades.
          Good point. However I also think that he sells the tools/information//strategies/advice/etc. that really empowers People. He wouldn't be so successful ― and popular (etc.) ― if he didn't deliver results.

          P.S. By the way, we've read a lot of the same books GordonJ ― we would probably really get on in person.
          Signature
          "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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          • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
            Yes, he offers tools, etc.

            This is a very minor thing, and Tony does a lot of great work, but like yourself, who may have had helpful information, it didn't solve everything...

            And for millions of people, who have spent many millions of dollars to learn his strategies, a small % actually fulfill their potential. And one reason is, strategies, techniques and methods are NOT a one size fits all solution.

            His do what I did, get what I got mantra is based on a wrong premise, and where he falls short in my opinion, is in not having history, or where one came from, it is all forward, goals, future...and without an understanding of what brought us to this point in time, we are likely to fall back into habits and thoughts that prevent us from actualizing our goals.

            But, again, this is a minor thing in his teachings, most of his strategies can be adapted and applied by anyone seriously wanting to improve their lot in life.

            As for books, there was a 20+ year period where I read a book a day, and skimmed another 2 or 3, so it doesn't surprise me I've read many of the same books as MANY Warriors have.

            The thing about books, is... how did the APPLICATION of what you learned from each one go? My habit was to immediately apply at least one idea from every book read.

            Reading and writing daily are lifelong habits for me, and my opinion is, those two things will help most people in whatever they are doing.

            GordonJ
            Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

            Interesting discussion. : )

            I'm a Tony Robbins fan as well ... In fact, many years ago when I was struggling in Life I bought his "Awaken The Giant Within" audio ― and although it didn't solve everything -- it was definitely helpful.



            Good point. However I also think that he sells the tools/information//strategies/advice/etc. that really empowers People. He wouldn't be so successful ― and popular (etc.) ― if he didn't deliver results.

            P.S. By the way, we've read a lot of the same books GordonJ ― we would probably really get on in person.
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            • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

              Yes, he offers tools, etc.

              This is a very minor thing, and Tony does a lot of great work, but like yourself, who may have had helpful information, it didn't solve everything...
              I disagree. It's not a minor thing. Selling "Hope" is great ... However it's the tools/information/strategies/advice/etc that really makes the difference in Peoples' lives.

              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

              And for millions of people, who have spent many millions of dollars to learn his strategies, a small % actually fulfill their potential. And one reason is, strategies, techniques and methods are NOT a one size fits all solution.
              Agreed. : )

              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

              His do what I did, get what I got mantra is based on a wrong premise, and where he falls short in my opinion, is in not having history, or where one came from, it is all forward, goals, future...and without an understanding of what brought us to this point in time, we are likely to fall back into habits and thoughts that prevent us from actualizing our goals.
              Sure. I understand. Sometimes a Person has to try several times before they succeed. That said, the more difficult it is, the greater accomplishment it is.

              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

              But, again, this is a minor thing in his teachings, most of his strategies can be adapted and applied by anyone seriously wanting to improve their lot in life.
              True. If People are determined enough to "change" etc. ― they will definitely find a way (eventually) ― and implement the actionable advice.

              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

              As for books, there was a 20+ year period where I read a book a day, and skimmed another 2 or 3, so it doesn't surprise me I've read many of the same books as MANY Warriors have.
              Cool. : ) I admire your "dedication."

              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

              The thing about books, is... how did the APPLICATION of what you learned from each one go? My habit was to immediately apply at least one idea from every book read.
              Definitely. Ultimately, it's the taking action that usually makes the difference.

              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

              Reading and writing daily are lifelong habits for me, and my opinion is, those two things will help most people in whatever they are doing.
              Again, I agree. I love reading and learning. : )
              Signature
              "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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              • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                Well, this misunderstanding is ON Me, because of the way I wrote it.

                The "minor thing" in the complete paragraph was my "quarrel", say 7%, is about the modeling aspect. I am in synch with Tony, otherwise, about 93% of the time.

                I'll try to be more clear when I write.

                The tools he offers are some of his best work.

                Yesterday, Tony talked about IDENTITY, as being the single most important factor in the quest for self-improvement. This goes back to Psycho-Cybernetics and self image.

                Is the identity that important? I know what I think, what do you think about this?

                GordonJ



                Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                I disagree. It's not a minor thing. Selling "Hope" is great ... However it's the tools/information/strategies/advice/etc that really makes the difference in Peoples' lives.



                Agreed. : )



                Sure. I understand. Sometimes a Person has to try several times before they succeed. That said, the more difficult it is, the greater accomplishment it is.



                True. If People are determined enough to "change" etc. ― they will definitely find a way (eventually) ― and implement the actionable advice.



                Cool. : ) I admire your "dedication."



                Definitely. Ultimately, it's the taking action that usually makes the difference.



                Again, I agree. I love reading and learning. : )
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                • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                  Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                  Well, this misunderstanding is ON Me, because of the way I wrote it.

                  The "minor thing" in the complete paragraph was my "quarrel", say 7%, is about the modeling aspect. I am in synch with Tony, otherwise, about 93% of the time.

                  I'll try to be more clear when I write.
                  Oh OK ― sorry: Thanks for the clarification. : )

                  Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                  The tools he offers are some of his best work.

                  Yesterday, Tony talked about IDENTITY, as being the single most important factor in the quest for self-improvement. This goes back to Psycho-Cybernetics and self image.

                  Is the identity that important? I know what I think, what do you think about this?
                  Yeah I think it definitely makes a difference. Similarly, I think if a Person understands ― and believes ― that they can grow, progress, and evolve as a Person (rather than just staying the same) that would help also.

                  2C
                  Signature
                  "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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                  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                    Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                    Oh OK ― sorry: Thanks for the clarification. : )



                    Yeah I think it definitely makes a difference. Similarly, I think if a Person understands ― and believes ― that they can grow, progress, and evolve as a Person (rather than just staying the same) that would help also.

                    2C
                    I think Gordon hit on something when he brought identity into the conversation..

                    If the goal end goal allows for someone to give context to the actions the are taking now. Building and or process goals.

                    I am currently building wealth. I am in the process of getting richer. I am currently learning "x" skill..

                    If I was to want a high end car I would probably go with a Tesla plaid the I could charge using a home solar system.

                    But where I am now an aptera is more my personality. When they get mass produced

                    But every time a part of the identity changes the entire identity changes and requires re exploration of the self and testing of what someone believes about themselves.

                    So unless someone is willing to regularly change who the say they are it is hard to willing start the process of growth with a bankruptcy, divorce, career ending event . Or a while scale event like this great resignation.

                    Gordon mentioned the stored value in people's heads.

                    I have be trying and failin to find some avenue to get it out in a way people can understand. I may be getting better now post enlightenment.

                    But I am better in a conversation with dialogue between people than trying to get it clear in a post for multiple readers

                    I am working on it though. The better I get with people the better I get in writing
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                    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                      Thanks Odahh: Am I right in thinking that a Person's actions will often be consistent with their "Identity" or "Self-Image?" For example, if a Person has to identity of an Entrepreneur, they will take actions that are consistent with that?
                      Signature
                      "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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                      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                        Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                        Thanks Odahh: Am I right in thinking that a Person's actions will often be consistent with their "Identity" or "Self-Image?" For example, if a Person has to identity of an Entrepreneur, they will take actions that are consistent with that?
                        Well you have to get clearity on what they believe being an entrepreneur means. As they will be more consistent with that definition than what you think it means.

                        Pretty much everyone who earns a paycheck is an employee. But what makes a good security guard good. Might be far different from the researchers working for Tesla or the crane operators. Or the executive staff who can run business but not start them.

                        At the base line an entrepreneur is living off profits not wages. And many small businesses persons are still working for wages. Explaining what they earn based on a steady hour by hour rate.

                        So when you get into buying and selling for profit. The you get into real entrepreneurs who are building businesses that have a value they can sell all or part of

                        Im pretty much explaining kyosaki's cash flow quadrant
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            • Profile picture of the author Odahh
              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

              Yes, he offers tools, etc.


              His do what I did, get what I got mantra is based on a wrong premise, and where he falls short in my opinion, is in not having history, or where one came from, it is all forward, goals, future...and without an understanding of what brought us to this point in time, we are likely to fall back into habits and thoughts that prevent us from actualizing our goals.


              GordonJ
              I spent a while trying to write that but couldn't. And abandon the attempt.

              Another thing I can barely explain is people tend to write goals and make changes that effect to many areas of life at once.

              If say you focus on developing healthy eating habits that allow you to attain and sustain a healthy weight.

              The healthy weight you now has a much different set of options for the next main goal

              I was always shy and introverted until going through the journey I have the last 6 years. Now I tell people that and my person to person skills are at a such a refined level people think I am lying about ever being shy.


              I have had the eventual goal of owning my own land and growing my on food for a long time. In October 2020 after putting 30 pounds on during lockdowns. I realize. I didn't cook anything I could grow. At that point I started to learn to cook vegetables I could eventually learn to grow. And just eating more vegetables and adding more veggies to what I eat I have lost 40 pounds sense . And not had weight go back up unless I drink several days in a row.. because when I drink I tend eat a big fat filled meal.

              I'm a fan of using technology to bypass the limits of my own potential.

              Claude has the fascination with human flight. I'm fine buying a plane ticket and not be limited to walking or runt to get thousands of miles away.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Not much to document. Honestly..

    Get the resources and money to buy a few acres of land. Buy a prebuilt shed and convert it to a small home. With a renewable power system. And learn to grow food starting with growing what grows great here.

    Any documentation probably has to wait until I have the land. But I have to get my license here and get a vehicle. I am basically completely restarting life from this point. I was in a place where ever area of my life was miserable and wrong 6 years ago and the last six years was bouncing around into different situations to figure out the basics of the life I want.

    I might skip all this business stuff and just go with recycling pallets as a way to earn money going forward. And a few other small things.

    I am in an incredibly difficult set of circumstances right now. But I have never been a beggar . Nor will I ever be . With no very attractive involved.

    And I will get snarky and defensive when someone repeatedly ignores what I say I am trying to do and continues tell my howto build a cathedral. When I am just trying to build a wall or to learn how to build a wall.

    The aggression in my argument is from the perception in the advice given by those who have success in business over decades. To the people starting out any type of business. That the only option you have is to build a cathedral. Or large million dollar or billions of dollars business.

    The majority of people starting business will at best get to survival levels where they will support their needs or work a job and make enough money in their small business to reach the comfort level they want.

    But the more competent people who manage that the fewer competent people that need to be paid higher wages. By those who want to build something bigger.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    I believe in goals. Start with self awareness the set response goals that are just beyond what you think you can achieve and possibly unlikely but not impossible.

    From being in a place where everything was out of control.

    So tell me when it comes to responsibility and most businesses fail and nearly every diet fails the responsibility is to stop doing things that fail the majority of the time.

    I will not take responsibility for failure when the thing that failed .failed nearly all the time. Accept for those with skills or genetics most people don't have and can't learn.

    My responsibility to myself is to find models that work most of the time and work over the long term and learn to follow that model.

    Doing what works over time is usually hard at first but gets much easier over time. Where as life spent following advice that is inappropriate or does not work to begin with gets harder to live as time goes on.

    With the great resignation the masses of baby boomers retiring earlish open up many opportunities for younger generations to move up or move around to find employment that better suits them or just pays better. Or pays less saves commute time or costs less to do. And allows for a side hustle that provides any extra cash needed.

    With the great resignation and many people starting side businesses. Has there been a huge influx of new people looking for information on this forum. Who stay more than a few days.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    A little late chiming in here, forgot about this thread!

    As GordonJ mentioned; I too am into the woo-woo for PRACTICAL reasons, more so trying to understand how my beliefs haven't changed all that much, rather my understanding has increased exponentially as I research everything from God - Satan and in betwixt! - and try to understand it from a neutrality as Hermetic teachings and to a degree many teachings mention the balance, neutral, or the observer's role, which I consider myself an observer/explorer first - especially entering into arenas I have not yet examined thoroughly enough to accept or dismiss just yet.

    I do not identify as religious, rarely ever did if ever, though I was raised in traditional Western philosophy Holy Trinity, etc... I don't dismiss much of the virtues, values, and even some of the metaphysical properties that are often debated by alternative philosophies or those who choose to believe in nothing per se.

    But I do believe we should have been introduced to specific teachings I didn't start exploring outside of say Catholic or Christian teachings and beliefs, and sometimes it pains me to think; there's a ton of abuse (or misinterpretations) throughout much of the traditional Western philosophies!

    There's always been the concretions and universal laws which I respect without feeling woo-woo at all. That just virtuous, value, and principle based aspects of any good teaching.

    but, I was looking for a new book outside my normal scope the other day and remembered somebody mentioning "Dianetics" by L. Ron Hubbard many years ago and someone I didn't know too well recommending that I read it.

    I googled Mr. Hubbard, found a documentary on him was kind of turned off - even in my own ignorance of having had no clue Mr. Hubbard started Scientology. Hey, to each their own, but I would definitely get on a Tony Robbins kick - before jumping on one of Hubbard's boats. Yet, there are people who sincerely believe the overall good is being served in that culture(?) - I don't know what they refer to it as, they mention the word; church - but there seems to be more to it than that, not my cup of tea, personally!

    I admit, some of the people I am now highly attuned to such as Alan Watts, and thanks to Gordon - I am actually blown away just now learning of Mark Hamilton's NeoThink and 200 million book sales. Some say that too is a scam, but I read a bunch of what he wrote about and I agree that guy seemed genuine about helping people escape the rat race!

    It's not like we go to the politicians or the churches to learn about making, managing, or developing financial security. The academic world is finicky at best as tuitions and schooling costs basically puts you i9nto to debt with no guarantee of a job without putting forth a sincere effort to capitalize on the knowledge gained in say college or an accredited school of thought!

    To me, it seems a bit woo-woo that I would need to invoice about $200k - $250k per year to live the way I did 20 years ago, before the 'bank bail outs" that basically wiped me out! - I think it was the lingering fear really that toppled some industries and shook the core of small service based business owners like myself, whereas, I was merely serving clients - a small step up from hourly or salaried pay. At least then the more I worked, the more I made.

    But... honestly, I followed everything from world leading physicists chasing down UFOs, to becoming a fond disciple of Buddhism - which normally would be woo-woo for someone raised on Jesus!

    I don't judge people based on their beliefs or non-beliefs in God or a specific religion, even though some have carved out the means to retain their early beliefs and expand upon those beliefs as Neal Donald Walsh did with "Conversations with God" - or- Erick von Daniken - "Chariots of the Gods" and he who inspired nearly all sci-fi movies, books, and researchers around the world in multiple fields of accredited studies...it just blows my mind, as he too felt something more was not being shared in most churches, governments, or traditional teachings.

    I have always been skeptical and optimistic... but not disrespectful to allow my ego to get too big or become megalomaniacal. I am not a big fan of such types, typically!

    It's just within the last 5 years, almost every study I have dug into seems to be suggesting the same things;

    Everything is connected. It's all mirrored from our inner cells to the outer reaches as with communications, environmental signals, and age-old influences that rarely if ever change without a war, major discourse to disprove the old teachings, or a battle of wits between the sciences, as to; who is actually serving the greater interests of humanity? nature? and the whole?

    Seems to me, power, money, and influence will permit damn near any teaching - so long as it doesn't go too extreme like drinking the Kool-aide or requires some brutal act to be indoctrinated into the cult, club, gang, or tribe... and for some odd reason, I favor the tribe over all. - Peace pipes, tribal drums, and giving thanks seems to still pique my interests towards serving the greater good of humanity, even when I am failing - for I, personally cannot make excuses to take advantage of other people, as I have experienced being taken advantage of (*ripped off) and have witnessed happening to others - online and offline.

    Caveat emptor applies to a multitude of offerings and teachings alike. So, I tread with caution, as I am just woo-woo enough to believe; what we do on this earth may not just effect us in this life, in between, or beyond this realm. I reserve great respect (reverence) for all that remains unknown, woo-woo or not!
    Signature
    Atop a tree with Buddha ain't a bad place to take rest!
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      A lot to unpack here.

      The story of why and how Scientology became a CHURCH is a good lesson in Gov't and influence. The short version, L. Ron and gang killed the IRS with a 1000 tiny cuts...the cuts being lawsuits filed in scores of jurisdictions. Rather than get bogged down the Gov't relented, and that is how and why we have a TAX EXEMPT Church of Scientology.

      They (IRS and Big Bro) have made it a bit harder after that.

      But why do religions and churches even get a Tax Exemption? Like many of our Founding Fathers' thoughts, it is time to rethink them.

      Tax the Churches. All of them. I mean, even Jesus said to render unto Caesar what is his...and the reason Peter had to pull gold out of a fish's mouth, for TAXES.

      Also, most 501 and all so called charities, these do-gooders should be taxed too, and then, last but not least CORPORATIONS. If all these deadbeats paid their fair share, we little folk wouldn't be in such a mess.

      OK. That may be a bit on the Karl Marx side of life. Point is RULES and who makes them and which ones are we going to CHOOSE to follow? It is a central issue of the whole Covid Vax war/debate.

      How much is a Gov't allowed, the power is great already, and in free countries, or so-called republics or semi democracies...how much do we the people surrender?

      I present these as mostly rhetorical questions, not necessarily for debate.

      The personal level.

      We, us, our...me, mine, I.

      Over my lifetime another "issue" I have is with do gooders thinking they help others when it mostly is either a business of money, or codependency. The recent decline in Fed. Grants have seen many a do-gooder let staff off and even close their doors or consolidate their interests.

      So RULES. Reminds of the old song. "Signs, signs, everywheres a sign." And sometimes we all need to tuck our hair under our hats and IGNORE the signs.

      I was lucky to discover the BS of rules at a fairly young age and having done my 4 years, 2 days and 11 hours and 8 minutes in the U.S. Navy, where one gets first hand knowledge of the idiocy of Gov't run operations, well, that just reinforced my disdain for RULES.

      In making money. There aren't any.

      There are LAWS, and one can choose, like Bernie Madoff to ignore or disobey the laws of man.

      But there are no RULES governing how fast, how easy, how to make money although I feel most people think there are.

      In Think and Grow Rich Hill writes that when riches do come to you, in large amounts,you wonder where they have been hiding...and once that happens, it gets easier to replicate it. Or as some say, the rich get richer.









      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      A little late chiming in here, forgot about this thread!

      As GordonJ mentioned; I too am into the woo-woo for PRACTICAL reasons, more so trying to understand how my beliefs haven't changed all that much, rather my understanding has increased exponentially as I research everything from God - Satan and in betwixt! - and try to understand it from a neutrality as Hermetic teachings and to a degree many teachings mention the balance, neutral, or the observer's role, which I consider myself an observer/explorer first - especially entering into arenas I have not yet examined thoroughly enough to accept or dismiss just yet.

      I do not identify as religious, rarely ever did if ever, though I was raised in traditional Western philosophy Holy Trinity, etc... I don't dismiss much of the virtues, values, and even some of the metaphysical properties that are often debated by alternative philosophies or those who choose to believe in nothing per se.

      But I do believe we should have been introduced to specific teachings I didn't start exploring outside of say Catholic or Christian teachings and beliefs, and sometimes it pains me to think; there's a ton of abuse (or misinterpretations) throughout much of the traditional Western philosophies!

      There's always been the concretions and universal laws which I respect without feeling woo-woo at all. That just virtuous, value, and principle based aspects of any good teaching.

      but, I was looking for a new book outside my normal scope the other day and remembered somebody mentioning "Dianetics" by L. Ron Hubbard many years ago and someone I didn't know too well recommending that I read it.

      I googled Mr. Hubbard, found a documentary on him was kind of turned off - even in my own ignorance of having had no clue Mr. Hubbard started Scientology. Hey, to each their own, but I would definitely get on a Tony Robbins kick - before jumping on one of Hubbard's boats. Yet, there are people who sincerely believe the overall good is being served in that culture(?) - I don't know what they refer to it as, they mention the word; church - but there seems to be more to it than that, not my cup of tea, personally!

      I admit, some of the people I am now highly attuned to such as Alan Watts, and thanks to Gordon - I am actually blown away just now learning of Mark Hamilton's NeoThink and 200 million book sales. Some say that too is a scam, but I read a bunch of what he wrote about and I agree that guy seemed genuine about helping people escape the rat race!

      It's not like we go to the politicians or the churches to learn about making, managing, or developing financial security. The academic world is finicky at best as tuitions and schooling costs basically puts you i9nto to debt with no guarantee of a job without putting forth a sincere effort to capitalize on the knowledge gained in say college or an accredited school of thought!

      To me, it seems a bit woo-woo that I would need to invoice about $200k - $250k per year to live the way I did 20 years ago, before the 'bank bail outs" that basically wiped me out! - I think it was the lingering fear really that toppled some industries and shook the core of small service based business owners like myself, whereas, I was merely serving clients - a small step up from hourly or salaried pay. At least then the more I worked, the more I made.

      But... honestly, I followed everything from world leading physicists chasing down UFOs, to becoming a fond disciple of Buddhism - which normally would be woo-woo for someone raised on Jesus!

      I don't judge people based on their beliefs or non-beliefs in God or a specific religion, even though some have carved out the means to retain their early beliefs and expand upon those beliefs as Neal Donald Walsh did with "Conversations with God" - or- Erick von Daniken - "Chariots of the Gods" and he who inspired nearly all sci-fi movies, books, and researchers around the world in multiple fields of accredited studies...it just blows my mind, as he too felt something more was not being shared in most churches, governments, or traditional teachings.

      I have always been skeptical and optimistic... but not disrespectful to allow my ego to get too big or become megalomaniacal. I am not a big fan of such types, typically!

      It's just within the last 5 years, almost every study I have dug into seems to be suggesting the same things;

      Everything is connected. It's all mirrored from our inner cells to the outer reaches as with communications, environmental signals, and age-old influences that rarely if ever change without a war, major discourse to disprove the old teachings, or a battle of wits between the sciences, as to; who is actually serving the greater interests of humanity? nature? and the whole?

      Seems to me, power, money, and influence will permit damn near any teaching - so long as it doesn't go too extreme like drinking the Kool-aide or requires some brutal act to be indoctrinated into the cult, club, gang, or tribe... and for some odd reason, I favor the tribe over all. - Peace pipes, tribal drums, and giving thanks seems to still pique my interests towards serving the greater good of humanity, even when I am failing - for I, personally cannot make excuses to take advantage of other people, as I have experienced being taken advantage of (*ripped off) and have witnessed happening to others - online and offline.

      Caveat emptor applies to a multitude of offerings and teachings alike. So, I tread with caution, as I am just woo-woo enough to believe; what we do on this earth may not just effect us in this life, in between, or beyond this realm. I reserve great respect (reverence) for all that remains unknown, woo-woo or not!
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        I want to use this as an example, so MODS, know I have NO affiliation to the linked site, and it is relevant to the discussion. I hope.

        I follow this marketer on eBay. Solar-Vision. He shows over 12,000 transactions. He also runs ads in circular pubs, so this may only be a part of his PRINT ON DEMAND publishing company and all things woowoo trinkets.

        You may be shocked by some of these titles, or as I was SCHLOCKED!!! HA!

        https://www.ebay.com/str/solarvisionpublishing

        I have bought from him. Disappointed in his marketing, no follow up or back ends, and he is leaving tons of money on the table.

        But, my opinion of his business is none of his concern, is it?

        I show you this stuff just so you can see it with your own eyes...there is no way this stuff should sell, yet it does.

        My point is about markets, niches and why YOU, all of you really, should have some sort of an information product to sell. Over the decades, I've earned a lot of money from these fringe markets, the woowoo crowd selling good luck charms, amulets, tailsmans, etc., etc. Most mainstream copywriters either don't know about them or won't write for them.

        Lucky me.

        So, this guy has sold 45 copies on ebay of BLACK MAGIC TO STOP YOUR ENEMIES at 18.99 a pop, or 850 in sales. I guarantee you the 4.99 for Shipping and Handling covers his expenses, leaving about a 12 buck profit. And although many of his products are much higher, using 12 bux times 12k gives him about 144,000 in eBay sales. My best guess, having followed him for a few years now, his take is much more than that.

        YOU have stored value. In your heads.

        Inside your mind, you have experiences, skills, knowledge which can be easily shared with other people and YOU could be pocketing some coin for your very part time efforts.

        I show you this in the hopes some of you might say:

        "You've got to be kidding me?"

        And hope you realize you are sitting on some opportunity or has someone used black magic on you and preventing you from making some bux with your knowledge?

        Check out his store and see how he sells all the trinkets too.

        GordonJ

        P.S. He's sold almost 3,000 dollars of the DESTROY EVERYTHING pendant, 92 at 31.98. YIKES
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Art

    I enjoy listening to Allen watts another voice at the time to listen to us marshal McLuhan explaining how the media of the time effect how people see and interact with the world.

    Unlit there where microscopes that could see germs and pathogens. Germ theory was considered woo woo for decades. The same with the doctor who proved many ulcers where not from stress but infectious in the stomach that could be cured with antibiotics.

    I think it's easier to filter through the woo woo world if you are looking for a practical application to a personal challenge that the world doesn't provide.

    But there are people in it who are looking to escape their problems instead of solving them.

    My favorite concept from Buddhism is either called the biggest problem or the 99 th problem. Which comes down to humans will always have a long list of problems. The biggest problem is the belief they should not have any problems.

    The interesting part of the story of the buhhdah and I can't pronounce or spell the rest of the name. Was he was born a prince with everything provided for him. And it was exposure to others problems that put him on his path.

    It's only Socrates or one of the Greek philosophers who was among the richest of his tim and left great wisdom for the ages. But he had a practice of stepping out of his wealth and living like the poorest of the time for a few a period of time.

    Today when I want a modern wise voice to listen to I go with sahdguru . He uses pretty good social media marketing to market his inner engineering course.

    We all have different lives what is practical is from one person to another and local environmental and geographic conditions to another.. so what is woo woo for one person is practical advice for another.

    The world we live in is an ever growing list of options of things we can do thing we can eat places we can travel conditions we can live in. Being born in or residing in the USA we have a long list of places we can visit without leaving the country.

    Only a small fraction of what now can be done. Is doable in one lifetime. Ther are times you need to do stuff you don't really want to do to do the things you really want to do. But spending most of your time on stuff you don't want while almost no time on the stuff you want is a waste.

    Let the people who want to do the stuff you don't want to do. Do that stuff. All it takes is accepting there are others out there who take great joy in doing it
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Gordon

    Identity is critical to self improvement personal growth and other things.

    For the last 200 years pretty much everyone in modern advancing societies get richer. The rich get richer exponentially and the less fortunate get rich a few percent a year.

    At what point can someone claim to be rich or claim to have success. And identify themselves as rich or as a success. How do they judge if they are improving. Where do we start measuring that .

    Where do start seeing the momentum of positive change and start fanning it on . Rather than rushing to assess someone a failure and writing ignoring or discounting it all as worthless.

    The line of exponentially growth tends to be flat for a long time before it takes off
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  • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    So there is no doubt, I like to be on the same page, so what is WOO WOO mean?

    I will use this definition for this post:

    Noun:
    unconventional beliefs regarded as having little or no scientific basis, especially those relating to spirituality, mysticism, or alternative medicine.
    "some kind of metaphysical woo-woo" AND
    Adjective:
    relating to or holding unconventional beliefs regarded as having little or no scientific basis, especially those relating to spirituality, mysticism, or alternative medicine.
    "quartz crystals that were so popular with the woo-woo crowd"

    Much of what is discussed here at the MIND sub-forum may fall under these definitions, all things THE SECRET, Manifestation and sub conscious training (albeit, depending on what that means to you)...

    I have a lifetime (over 50 years) of study of all things WOO WOO. Having been exposed to unconventional beliefs at a young age, I was lucky to have had a mentor who insisted that all studies be RESULTS oriented. Now that is a skew of my mind.

    I live in a Stimulus-Response world and when TUNED into my conscious awareness, it gives me great clarity for what other people are doing. Staying tuned in for long periods of time isn't possible, someone who is Totally Conscious Aware may be like soldiers who maintain flight/fight response awareness for long times, resulting, often but not always in things like PTSD.

    Being in a heightened state of awareness for short periods of time, however, is one of the foundations of Woo Woo positive experiences.

    Odd thing, some of this woo woo experience has come from studying some hard core business people, like Joe Karbo who wrote the book, THE LAZY MAN'S WAY TO RICHES, but it was actually two books in one, the second part of it being all about Dyna-Psych, woo woo if there ever was one.

    And Robert Collier, he of the famous ROBERT COLLIER LETTER BOOK, penned one of the all time best selling woo woo books, THE SECRET OF THE AGES.

    Much of the derogatory comments toward woo woo come from either main stream religions or from schooling and impressionable young minds.

    So, here we are, and one thing I want to get across is, coming from a background and a lifetime of study into all things woowoo, it has always been my objective to look for the practical and useful bits and pieces of any sort of mind/thought/spirit studies.

    Are you skeptical of woowoo? Well, being skeptical is a positive and useful tool, and it makes one want to test or find out without going down rabbit holes and encountering some very weird characters as Alice did in Wonderland.

    What have been your Woo Woo Experiences? I'll gladly share mine later, from Astral Projection (out of body experiences), telepathy, to some pretty far out ideas...all having been tested in the laboratory of life.

    GordonJ "Mr. WooWoo?"
    Good thread Gordon.

    I see two really different things IMO are discussed here.

    (1) We're discussing how "woo woo" can help you be more successful personally

    and

    (2) We're discussing how using woo woo in your marketing can get you more sales

    I think (2) is very different from (1) and it is its own topic. Personally, I agree. Using woo woo in your marketing will definitely get you more sales. I've worked and coached people who started selling these woo woo stuff. Most successful one made sales of over $1M, starting with nothing but dropshipped products off Aliexpress, in less than 1 year. No content, no nothing. Just find products, run ads, get paid. Profit at around $200K (and that doesn't include selling the biz), almost ALL from the front-end, very little use of lists and re-marketing.

    Now the reason for all this is all in the market. Most of these woo woo folks are gullible (don't mean that as an insult, it's just how I see it - they take almost anything they read as true), and unsophisticated buyers. I mean, who else would pay $200 for a crystal that gives you positive vibes? o.O So the copy/marketing doesn't even have to be good. You can make many millions of dollars selling to the right market with crappy marketing. It still works. Compare that with something like my agency clients, let's take coaches in particular. It's damn hard to scale a coach who doesn't have a solid brand already, social proof and so on. Even the best marketing and copywriting sometimes fails. Direct response alone isn't enough. Also needs branding. If a coach comes to me with literarily nothing, I can't just tell him "send this message to people and start printing money". It won't work.

    Now, I disagree about woo woo being helpful in the sense of (1). It is true that I've never had any of the experiences that you've spoken of, but I have read a lot of literature that could be considered woo woo, including Joe Karbo's book you mentioned, Collier's Secrets of the Ages upon which Karbo's was partly based on, works of people like David Hawkins and so on.

    I know for myself at least that it's possible to be successful in business and NOT have the right mindset. I didn't start any of my businesses thinking I'll succeed. I'm actually quite pessimistic by nature. I don't really "believe in myself", unless you count taking action as believing. I take action in spite of my beliefs many times. I have also found it damn hard, if not impossible, to change beliefs. And believe me, I've read both of Tony's books (referring to Awaken the Giant and Unlimited Power), paid for a lot of his programs, and so on. And he's just ONE of the gurus. You can count Katie Byron, David Hawkins, Hill, Maltz, as just some of the others I've read that immediately come to mind. None of that stuff works for me. If I'm afraid of something, for example, I can talk about it till I turn blue in the face, I won't stop being afraid. I can question my beliefs, reframe them, etc. but they always come back. The only thing that works is taking action, and then, over time, those beliefs change.

    But the first time you take action... those limiting beliefs are there. You must act IN SPITE OF them, rather than worry about removing them first. Worrying about getting rid of your limiting beliefs is in my opinion procrastination. If you have a limiting belief about sales, for example, and experience anxiety when cold calling... you can do all the mental prep you want, the very first call you make, you're going to experience anxiety. No ifs or buts. It's just there, regardless of how much you've worked on your beliefs. Because your limiting belief is the first thing that springs to mind when encountering the situation. So to get good at it, you've got to push through it (ie, courage) and act in spite of your fear, rather than seeking the absence of the fear first.

    I think that the KEY to success is just the right strategy. You simply need to know what to do at every step of the way. If you know that, then you just need to act. That's it. Problem is that knowing the right strategy, ie, knowing what you should be doing in the first place is HARD. Very hard. It took me a long time to start making great money because I lacked know-how and knowledge. Now it's easy. I know exactly what to say to get a testimonial that says what I want it to say. I know exactly what to say to get a referral. I know exactly what to say to get people to buy. What's hard about it? Nothing! Because I have a roadmap where everything is already figured out in advance. And it's not the sort of thing you can successfully put into a course, because there are all sorts of small situations and exceptions that you've got to figure out and learn... so practice and experience is the only way. Now what is all this? Is it mindset? I don't think so, it's just sales and marketing expertise.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Tanda Copywriting View Post


      ...
      I think that the KEY to success is just the right strategy. You simply need to know what to do at every step of the way.
      If you know that, then you just need to act.
      That's it. Problem is that knowing the right strategy, ie, knowing what you should be doing in the first place is HARD. Very hard. It took me a long time to start making great money because I lacked know-how and knowledge. Now it's easy. I know exactly what to say to get a testimonial that says what I want it to say. I know exactly what to say to get a referral. I know exactly what to say to get people to buy. What's hard about it? Nothing!

      Because I have a roadmap where everything is already figured out in advance.


      And it's not the sort of thing you can successfully put into a course, because there are all sorts of small situations and exceptions that you've got to figure out and learn... so practice and experience is the only way. Now what is all this? Is it mindset? I don't think so, it's just sales and marketing expertise.
      I agree, with the exception of the roadmap, which can be put into a course (has by many), and taught.

      The problem for so many is the map to success doesn't have that clear destination marked on it.

      We prefer a View From the Rooftop, or at least Google satellite view of the start and finish line. I personally use a bridge across a river which is covered with fog.

      I can state this from anecdotal experience having dealt with scores and scores of people over the last 50 years, MOST do not have a roadmap because they don't have a destination...

      they do NOT know what they want, or why.

      One can figure out MOST things in advance, if they view from the roof top and see the vicious dogs on Elm St. might be in their path, or in other words, SOMETHING is going to go off track, and ADJUSTMENTS have to be made. On the map we might not see the curent detours, but if we know it well enough, then when we encounter blocks, we can figure out an alternative route.

      Now this may be my own bias, from having worked with so many over the years, but I'd bet money on the guy with fire in his belly and a clear view from the rooftop over a guy who is fuzzy in his wants. He wants to cross the bridge, and he HOPES it is better over there on the other side, but until he starts walking across it, and goes into the unknown fog, there isn't much hope he arrives at a greener pasture, and maybe it is a quick sand pit he stumbles into once over the bridge.

      GordonJ
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      • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        I agree, with the exception of the roadmap, which can be put into a course (has by many), and taught.

        The problem for so many is the map to success doesn't have that clear destination marked on it.

        We prefer a View From the Rooftop, or at least Google satellite view of the start and finish line. I personally use a bridge across a river which is covered with fog.

        I can state this from anecdotal experience having dealt with scores and scores of people over the last 50 years, MOST do not have a roadmap because they don't have a destination...

        they do NOT know what they want, or why.

        One can figure out MOST things in advance, if they view from the roof top and see the vicious dogs on Elm St. might be in their path, or in other words, SOMETHING is going to go off track, and ADJUSTMENTS have to be made. On the map we might not see the curent detours, but if we know it well enough, then when we encounter blocks, we can figure out an alternative route.

        Now this may be my own bias, from having worked with so many over the years, but I'd bet money on the guy with fire in his belly and a clear view from the rooftop over a guy who is fuzzy in his wants. He wants to cross the bridge, and he HOPES it is better over there on the other side, but until he starts walking across it, and goes into the unknown fog, there isn't much hope he arrives at a greener pasture, and maybe it is a quick sand pit he stumbles into once over the bridge.

        GordonJ
        Well, I can't say I disagree with you. You are right - the right strategy depends upon your goal, and the difficulty of figuring it out also involves figuring out what your goals actually are (what you call the view from the rooftop). Figuring out what you want however isn't easy, and in my experience it has always been a process of trial and error more or less. You kinda know what you want, vaguely, so to speak, and you start moving, and over time you gain a bit more clarity. When you gain clarity, you also gain in motivation.

        But I don't really see the link between strategy and getting clear on your goals, and woo woo literature or mindset for that matter. Where does woo woo literature or mindset come into it? As far as I see the latter are more of a distraction than anything else?
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by Tanda Copywriting View Post

          Well, I can't say I disagree with you. You are right - the right strategy depends upon your goal, and the difficulty of figuring it out also involves figuring out what your goals actually are (what you call the view from the rooftop). Figuring out what you want however isn't easy, and in my experience it has always been a process of trial and error more or less. You kinda know what you want, vaguely, so to speak, and you start moving, and over time you gain a bit more clarity. When you gain clarity, you also gain in motivation.

          But I don't really see the link between strategy and getting clear on your goals, and woo woo literature or mindset for that matter. Where does woo woo literature or mindset come into it? As far as I see the latter are more of a distraction than anything else?
          OK, good points, first from your post:

          I know for myself at least that it's possible to be successful in business and NOT have the right mindset. And I take this to mean you did not have a positive belief you could succeed, right?

          I have many times over the years pointed to people like yourself, and many others who became successful more from just DOING something, not even believing they could, one guy comes to mind, one of Gary Halbert's disciples, Richard Dennis who wrote the classic headline DEAD DOCTORS DON'T LIE.

          Richard, You and many, many others fall into this catagory and without any hard data to back it up, just an experienced opinion, you guys are in the less than 20% group. Meaning 80% of those who do succeed by their own standards, start or soon acquire a belief they can finish the start successfully.

          There are exceptions for sure.

          Now maybe we differ with our idea of Strategy. You wrote:
          I think that the KEY to success is just the right strategy. You simply need to know what to do at every step of the way.

          I was taught, and still think that STRATEGY is the Planning (the THINKING, and thinking is the connection to woowoo, which I'll get into in a moment). Strategy THEN the tactical, or execution of the plan.

          And I love the Philosopher Mike Tyson who said; "Every boxer has a plan (strategy) until he gets hit in the face."

          How does one know what to do at every step, without first laying the steps out? (Thinking them through)

          You took awhile to get to your success by trial and error, figuring things out and that is how most people go about it. BUT, if you had the steps (View from rooftop or roadmap) completed BEFORE you started, I suggest you could have expedited that success with fewer and fewer corrections and adjustments.

          Now the big mistake of those who are purely woowoo, like those who believe they can MANIFEST via THE SECRET or as Tony Robbins lays out in the books you read, is...

          The big mistake is, THE ACTION/ADJUSTMENT of it all.

          True story about my journey: One of my invisible counselors told me something during a session about manifesting something I wanted.

          He told me (my invisible imaginary member of my round table), "Why do you need help for something you already have?"

          See, as you have read, in many of those works they teach us the subconscious mind can not tell the difference between an imaginary emotionally felt experience and an actual one. (I BELIEVE THIS IS A FLAWED CONCEPT, for a later discuss).

          So my daily affirmations had me visualizing in great detail, smelling, seeing in my mind's eye the exact thing I wanted, and told myself that I was in possession of it. And you find this to be one of the fundamental principles of manifestation woowoo.

          Then my guy spoke up.

          And it occured to me, if my subconscious mind BELIEVED I already had it, and it can't tell the difference between reality and imagination, then my make believe counselors, the sentrys of my subconscious had no way to help me, did they?

          So that is why he told me I needed to learn to ask for help in a different way, and to PLAN out step by step maps in a slightly different, albeit woowoo type way.

          As to the course of instruction, from Tony Robbins to dozens of other who preach MINDset, or manifestation, or controlling your destiny...they pert near follow a blueprint...and it always begins with WHAT IS WANTED.

          HOW to eliminate the choices, and select the best start? Use a binary matrix.

          Compare one activity with another until one ranks at the top.

          In IM terms: New Warrior wants to make money.

          List the choices.
          Affiliate Marketing
          a) products
          b) information

          eCom
          Blogging
          YouTube
          Social Media (Influencer)
          Service Provider
          SAAS
          Developer
          Freelancer

          Then compare one to one Affiliate marketer to Developer. A person who is clueless about what a developer does, this will be a simple choice. But maybe tougher between affiliate marketer and blogger.

          But the process eliminates some of the possibility while getting one that ranks higher and is probably better suited to the purpose.

          Once there are 2 or 3 choices of the WHAT, then they can look for the how. Say affiliate marketer of products ranks number one and that is what they decide to do, what STEP comes next?

          Well, this is the learning curve part, the roller coaster slowly going up the hill, and it happens very quickly, if the work, the learning curve is too much too steep, then we may fall back to a second choice.

          So the HOW the woowoo can help one is by GETTING TO KNOW what your mindset is, and getting to understand the THOUGHT PROCESS which has brought you to this point of time. The reason self help, self improvement, personal improvement is an evergreen huge market is because there are so many IDEAS, and concepts beaten into our young minds, take Rich Dad Poor Dad as an example...

          the reason woowoo helps is to address those thoughts, and if there are limiting ones, to readjust them to thoughts that can help.

          GordonJ
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          • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            OK, good points, first from your post:

            I know for myself at least that it's possible to be successful in business and NOT have the right mindset. And I take this to mean you did not have a positive belief you could succeed, right?
            Yes, exactly. I find, and this doesn't apply just to business, but anything else, including say dating, or achieving some challenge - I'm always afraid that I'll fail, and sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. But the BELIEF only comes after the achievement, or perhaps I should say when the finish line is in sight. So for example, take dating. Before initiating a relationship with a woman, I don't believe she'll say yes or I'll be successful. In fact, quite the contrary. But, if I get her to spend more and more time with me, laugh at my jokes, and so on, then I start to believe. And gradually I build the relationship, without "dating". And by the time I "officially" ask her out, I believe 100% and it's a mere formality more than anything else, because I know what she'll say already.

            I have many times over the years pointed to people like yourself, and many others who became successful more from just DOING something, not even believing they could, one guy comes to mind, one of Gary Halbert's disciples, Richard Dennis who wrote the classic headline DEAD DOCTORS DON'T LIE.

            Richard, You and many, many others fall into this catagory and without any hard data to back it up, just an experienced opinion, you guys are in the less than 20% group. Meaning 80% of those who do succeed by their own standards, start or soon acquire a belief they can finish the start successfully.

            There are exceptions for sure.
            This is interesting, thanks for sharing that.

            You took awhile to get to your success by trial and error, figuring things out and that is how most people go about it. BUT, if you had the steps (View from rooftop or roadmap) completed BEFORE you started, I suggest you could have expedited that success with fewer and fewer corrections and adjustments.
            I agree, but how could I have had such clarity with so many unknowns? When you first start out, you don't know anything. I literarily started out when I was 18. Never worked a job in my life actually. Was never employed in my life. So I literarily knew nothing.

            Now the big mistake of those who are purely woowoo, like those who believe they can MANIFEST via THE SECRET or as Tony Robbins lays out in the books you read, is...

            The big mistake is, THE ACTION/ADJUSTMENT of it all.
            I am not sure I quite follow your meaning with this. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

            From what I remember, Tony does say that you need to believe you can, get in the right state, take massive action, and then course correct in that order. I remember in one of the books or courses he says "if you do the same thing again and again and expect different results, you're being insane" to describe that last step, the course correction.

            HOW to eliminate the choices, and select the best start? Use a binary matrix.

            Compare one activity with another until one ranks at the top.

            In IM terms: New Warrior wants to make money.

            List the choices.
            Affiliate Marketing
            a) products
            b) information

            eCom
            Blogging
            YouTube
            Social Media (Influencer)
            Service Provider
            SAAS
            Developer
            Freelancer

            Then compare one to one Affiliate marketer to Developer. A person who is clueless about what a developer does, this will be a simple choice. But maybe tougher between affiliate marketer and blogger.

            But the process eliminates some of the possibility while getting one that ranks higher and is probably better suited to the purpose.

            Once there are 2 or 3 choices of the WHAT, then they can look for the how. Say affiliate marketer of products ranks number one and that is what they decide to do, what STEP comes next?
            This is sort of how I did it, albeit unknowingly at the time. I was like "I don't want to work for someone else, so I must open some kind of business. How do I do that?" i then researched online and found that freelancing is a way to ease yourself into business. Of course I found affiliate marketing, and ecom and all the rest, but it seemed way too complex to me, as I literarily knew nothing, not even how I would pay my taxes. So I chose freelancing, in a process that's similar to your matrix.

            That works because at that stage the choice is quite simple (or at least in my case it was). But, then I started to grow my skills. I narrowed down on copywriting and kept pursuing it. Then I started to get bigger clients and at one point a $100M Chinese company who had hired me was like, we need a website built in addition to your copy. And I was like "Sorry, I can't do that", and they were like "well, can't you find someone to take care of it, since you know exactly what we want?" And lo and behold that was the start of my agency. Now things got to another level of complexity. Choices weren't so simple and obvious anymore. Go through a few more iterations, add an info product side to the business, add a podcast, add 2 communities (one on FB, one on Discord) and choices get more and more complex. When things are complex, it's much more difficult, because there isn't just ONE right path. There are MULTIPLE paths forward, and they can all be right ones.

            So the HOW the woowoo can help one is by GETTING TO KNOW what your mindset is, and getting to understand the THOUGHT PROCESS which has brought you to this point of time. The reason self help, self improvement, personal improvement is an evergreen huge market is because there are so many IDEAS, and concepts beaten into our young minds, take Rich Dad Poor Dad as an example...

            the reason woowoo helps is to address those thoughts, and if there are limiting ones, to readjust them to thoughts that can help.

            GordonJ
            But here's the most important point, which I don't get. How exactly does the woo woo address limiting thoughts? Let me give you an example. In building my agency I had to learn cold calling and interacting with a lot of people. Being a shy person by nature, this didn't come easily to me. Especially cold calling, I experienced severe anxiety. And it wasn't rational, but I was still scared. Regardless of what i told myself, how much I visualized myself making the calls (I used the creative visualization techniques from Jim Newman's book Release Your Breaks, similar to both Think and Grow Rich and PsychoCybernetics) , feeling great while doing it, seeing myself in my mind's eye as successful at it and so on, the fear (and hence the limiting thoughts underlying it) were there when I thought that I'd have to pick up the phone and start dialing. It was only after repeated exposure and actually doing the calls over and over that it became second nature to me. And it really became second nature because I started to feel in control of calls... meaning that I could direct them as I wanted to, there were no surprises. (And you really get there imo after mastering the art of scripting and bringing conversations back to the script regardless of where they go)

            Think and Grow Rich, btw, remains my favorite business book, not for the woo woo, but because it singles out the importance of desire, skill, planning and action, all 4 which I've found to be indispensable.
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            • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
              I hope it is OK to quote within your post, I'll use red for my responses, OK?

              Originally Posted by Tanda Copywriting View Post

              Yes, exactly. I find, and this doesn't apply just to business, but anything else, including say dating, or achieving some challenge - I'm always afraid that I'll fail, and sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. But the BELIEF only comes after the achievement, or perhaps I should say when the finish line is in sight. So for example, take dating. Before initiating a relationship with a woman, I don't believe she'll say yes or I'll be successful. In fact, quite the contrary. But, if I get her to spend more and more time with me, laugh at my jokes, and so on, then I start to believe. And gradually I build the relationship, without "dating". And by the time I "officially" ask her out, I believe 100% and it's a mere formality more than anything else, because I know what she'll say already.

              OK. Here is a secret, and I hate guys who give out secrets, cause then it isn't one. This isn't only for dating, but for selling, for any face to face, person to person conversations and even when there is an OUTCOME wanted, like a date or a sale.

              Many so called pickup guys and even sales people will tell people to FAKE IT TIL THEY MAKE IT, or pretend you have confidence. I have never taught this, nor do I subscribe to it. I can create miraculous results for those who use this strategy.

              It isn't about what you want. Give THAT person what they want. The reason there is a pickyup industry at all is because GUYS think about what they want, and will pay thousands of dollars to TRICK girls into bed, or into a relationship. Don't trick, TREAT.

              Be the guy, they would WANT to date. So, I say all of this type of insecurity comes from being self centered, selfish, and not considering what the other person is looking for. And that takes very little engagement to find out. Rather than selling yourself with jokes and such, if guys tried, spent a little time, finding out what SHE (or he) wants, what that person is looking for, and IS that thing, it gets off to the right start, if you are NOT that, move on.


              This is interesting, thanks for sharing that.


              I agree, but how could I have had such clarity with so many unknowns? When you first start out, you don't know anything. I literarily started out when I was 18. Never worked a job in my life actually. Was never employed in my life. So I literarily knew nothing.

              Go back to your 18 year old self. You say when you first STARTED OUT, but started what? What were you starting to do, Entrepremeurship? Copywriting? Marketing? IM? But you started DOING SOMETHING, correct?

              There, at that point, lies an answer. Not ever having a job, you started doing ______ BECAUSE you wanted___________?

              You had clarity about something, maybe what you didn't want, a job, school, profession which required too much study? With Warriors wanting money, we can establish a base line, how much and what for? Then we can measure their current status, and what assets they have, or what skills they need to acquire.

              Also, at 18, very few people have a clue about what they want, I always advise young people to want to be young and EXPERIENCE best as you can, what you want for NOW. The now changes, the wants change, and 18 goes by pretty quick.


              I am not sure I quite follow your meaning with this. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

              From what I remember, Tony does say that you need to believe you can, get in the right state, take massive action, and then course correct in that order. I remember in one of the books or courses he says "if you do the same thing again and again and expect different results, you're being insane" to describe that last step, the course correction.

              Yes, but what do you correct? I think this is where they miss the boat, correct your original thought, you current behavior, try another way, try different thinking, different people, correct strategy, tactics (I think this mostly what TR would have you correct). They want you to take MASSIVE action, and be tank and roll over all obstacles in your way, but if the massive action hits a wall, then what? Take MORE massive actions? Just will it away? I'm not saying they leave it out, but can you point out some detailed information on the HOW to correct, or make the adjustments. It is usually, more of a do it, TRY ANOTHER WAY, a technique used on people development issues.


              This is sort of how I did it, albeit unknowingly at the time. I was like "I don't want to work for someone else, so I must open some kind of business. How do I do that?" i then researched online and found that freelancing is a way to ease yourself into business. Of course I found affiliate marketing, and ecom and all the rest, but it seemed way too complex to me, as I literarily knew nothing, not even how I would pay my taxes. So I chose freelancing, in a process that's similar to your matrix.

              Going back to your 18 year old self if you had a Binary Matrix of choices consciously in front of you, one of your own design, you put the choices on it and say FREELANCING came out your #1, then the process would probably reflect exactly what you did. In my model, BEFORE you go out, you go the rooftop, see who PAYS the most for freelancers, see what skills they buy, in other words do all the research and then with a money goal in mind, a MAP, or as you have been exposed to, a backward chain of events to get you say, to 18 and a half. So that by 19 you may have been fully ready to launch what may have taken you 3 to 5 years to get to, see?


              ,


              That works because at that stage the choice is quite simple (or at least in my case it was). But, then I started to grow my skills. I narrowed down on copywriting and kept pursuing it. Then I started to get bigger clients and at one point a $100M Chinese company who had hired me was like, we need a website built in addition to your copy. And I was like "Sorry, I can't do that", and they were like "well, can't you find someone to take care of it, since you know exactly what we want?" And lo and behold that was the start of my agency. Now things got to another level of complexity. Choices weren't so simple and obvious anymore. Go through a few more iterations, add an info product side to the business, add a podcast, add 2 communities (one on FB, one on Discord) and choices get more and more complex. When things are complex, it's much more difficult, because there isn't just ONE right path. There are MULTIPLE paths forward, and they can all be right ones.

              OK

              But here's the most important point, which I don't get. How exactly does the woo woo address limiting thoughts? Let me give you an example. In building my agency I had to learn cold calling and interacting with a lot of people. Being a shy person by nature, this didn't come easily to me. Especially cold calling, I experienced severe anxiety.

              Can I now bill your insurance company for some mental health consults? HA!...
              Woowoo is irrational thinking. Anxiety is a rational thought, meaning in this case the interaction could be negative and it is INTERNALLY FOCUSED, on self. I've witnessed extreme anxiety disappear INSTANTLY when the person is focused on someone else, benefitting, by helping someone, by involved in the other person's welfare, and if one intervenes and asks about their anxiety, they don't present it, they wait til later in the day or evening before popping the Xanax when they are again self focused.

              Even though you personally did not benefit from using woowoo techniques, there is a mountain of anecdotal evidence from others that these do work, again, you may just be in the 20%.




              And it wasn't rational, but I was still scared. I think being scared of what others think is very RATIONAL, it does make sense, if the numbers were reveresed of those who are afraid of public speaking vs those that are not or if 90% did NOT fear public speaking, then the fear would be irrational.


              Regardless of what i told myself, how much I visualized myself making the calls (I used the creative visualization techniques from Jim Newman's book Release Your Breaks, similar to both Think and Grow Rich and PsychoCybernetics) , feeling great while doing it, seeing myself in my mind's eye as successful at it and so on, the fear (and hence the limiting thoughts underlying it) were there when I thought that I'd have to pick up the phone and start dialing. It was only after repeated exposure and actually doing the calls over and over that it became second nature to me.

              And isn't this true about everything we do, or learn to do?


              And it really became second nature because I started to feel in control of calls... meaning that I could direct them as I wanted to, there were no surprises. (And you really get there imo after mastering the art of scripting and bringing conversations back to the script regardless of where they go)

              Think and Grow Rich, btw, remains my favorite business book, not for the woo woo, but because it singles out the importance of desire, skill, planning and action, all 4 which I've found to be indispensable.
              You probably are in a group of people for whom woowoo, as described, wouldn't do anything for you. See, there are those who think the whole of TAGR is woowoo, all of it based on unscientific, unrepeatable, anecdotal (cherry picked at that) stories of how some did it, and not a rational way for everyone to do it. Which if it is not rational, or scientific, but falls into areas of belief, it is by the very definition woowoo stuff, according to the skeptics, critics and some few hard core scientists.

              Think and Grow Rich is not a step by step RATIONAL how to book that gives everyone the same result if they follow the steps, it is belief based, and full of mystical, metaphysical and even magical stories. As woowoo as it can be.

              GordonJ
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              • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                I hope it is OK to quote within your post, I'll use red for my responses, OK?
                Sure.

                Going back to your 18 year old self if you had a Binary Matrix of choices consciously in front of you, one of your own design, you put the choices on it and say FREELANCING came out your #1, then the process would probably reflect exactly what you did. In my model, BEFORE you go out, you go the rooftop, see who PAYS the most for freelancers, see what skills they buy, in other words do all the research and then with a money goal in mind, a MAP, or as you have been exposed to, a backward chain of events to get you say, to 18 and a half. So that by 19 you may have been fully ready to launch what may have taken you 3 to 5 years to get to, see?
                I agree. I just didn't have such knowledge back then, and had to find a way to make it work.

                Can I now bill your insurance company for some mental health consults? HA!...
                Woowoo is irrational thinking. Anxiety is a rational thought, meaning in this case the interaction could be negative and it is INTERNALLY FOCUSED, on self. I've witnessed extreme anxiety disappear INSTANTLY when the person is focused on someone else, benefitting, by helping someone, by involved in the other person's welfare, and if one intervenes and asks about their anxiety, they don't present it, they wait til later in the day or evening before popping the Xanax when they are again self focused.

                Even though you personally did not benefit from using woowoo techniques, there is a mountain of anecdotal evidence from others that these do work, again, you may just be in the 20%.
                Haha, you CAN bill them, but from what I see this only has limited applicability to situations that involve others, where you can shift your focus from yourself to the other person. But take something like sky diving, which I want to try. Scares the living hell out of me. I'll probably have to really really push myself to get that done.


                I think being scared of what others think is very RATIONAL, it does make sense, if the numbers were reveresed of those who are afraid of public speaking vs those that are not or if 90% did NOT fear public speaking, then the fear would be irrational. ​
                So you say anxiety is rational - personally, I disagree with you there. It's not rational, because it's not helpful.

                If I want to go sky diving, for example, my anxiety isn't helping me. Quite the contrary, it's preventing me from doing what I'd like to do. For something to be rational, I think it must be in the interest of your desires right? As David Hume says, reason is the slave of the passions -> rationality shows us how to go from A to B, but our desires make us want the B in the first place. So an emotion that isn't in the service of reason - getting from A to B - I'd say is irrational.

                And isn't this true about everything we do, or learn to do?
                So if I need to actually take action in spite of fear, how has the woo woo actually eliminated the underlying limiting belief and hence helped me? It's the limiting belief that causes the fear right? If I didn't have a limiting belief about sky diving, I wouldn't be afraid, would I? It's because I believe that I could die doing it, or feel powerless, or whatever it is that I experience fear. If I didn't have that belief, I wouldn't experience fear. So if woo woo worked, I'm supposed to be able to surgically remove that limiting belief right? So the proof that I've removed it is that once I climb on the plane, or in anticipation to the event, I feel no fear. I may feel some excitement, because I'm doing something new, but no fear. Because I believe I will be OK. Where am I wrong?
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                • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                  OK, I was wrong, and I stand corrected.

                  I should have said, how MOST or Some Warriors can benefit from woowoo, but not all.

                  GordonJ


                  Originally Posted by Tanda Copywriting View Post

                  Sure.


                  I agree. I just didn't have such knowledge back then, and had to find a way to make it work.


                  Haha, you CAN bill them, but from what I see this only has limited applicability to situations that involve others, where you can shift your focus from yourself to the other person. But take something like sky diving, which I want to try. Scares the living hell out of me. I'll probably have to really really push myself to get that done.



                  So you say anxiety is rational - personally, I disagree with you there. It's not rational, because it's not helpful.

                  If I want to go sky diving, for example, my anxiety isn't helping me. Quite the contrary, it's preventing me from doing what I'd like to do. For something to be rational, I think it must be in the interest of your desires right? As David Hume says, reason is the slave of the passions -> rationality shows us how to go from A to B, but our desires make us want the B in the first place. So an emotion that isn't in the service of reason - getting from A to B - I'd say is irrational.


                  So if I need to actually take action in spite of fear, how has the woo woo actually eliminated the underlying limiting belief and hence helped me? It's the limiting belief that causes the fear right? If I didn't have a limiting belief about sky diving, I wouldn't be afraid, would I? It's because I believe that I could die doing it, or feel powerless, or whatever it is that I experience fear. If I didn't have that belief, I wouldn't experience fear. So if woo woo worked, I'm supposed to be able to surgically remove that limiting belief right? So the proof that I've removed it is that once I climb on the plane, or in anticipation to the event, I feel no fear. I may feel some excitement, because I'm doing something new, but no fear. Because I believe I will be OK. Where am I wrong?
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                  • Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                    OK, I was wrong, and I stand corrected.

                    I should have said, how MOST or Some Warriors can benefit from woowoo, but not all.

                    GordonJ
                    No worries, didn't mean to correct you. For me having these discussions is helpful - maybe I'm missing something, and I can figure out how something else (woo woo) in this case could be helpful for me. That's why I like to have them
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    It not people's own limited beliefs that holds them back. They share their goals and what they want to do with others. Then get large amoyof advice from those people's limited beliefs based in what they believe is possible.

    Then they spend a large amount of time trying to change the beliefs of those around them. Trying to drag people with them who make it clear they don't want to go. Building up anger over time. Because rare giving up on trying to make their dream a reality. While attempting to get others to follow in the dream.

    I think Elon musk's first wife would have been much happier if he just bought a small island.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    If a mans social skills with women are awkward. It time to get a cute dog and start walking the dog in public parks. And having friendly discussion with other dog owners and women who just want to pat the dog.

    A happy friendly well behaved dog will get far better relationship quality women than a Lamborghini
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    • Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      If a mans social skills with women are awkward. It time to get a cute dog and start walking the dog in public parks. And having friendly discussion with other dog owners and women who just want to pat the dog.

      A happy friendly well behaved dog will get far better relationship quality women than a Lamborghini
      I am already in a relationship for 4 years, so don't need that stuff anymore, but thanks! )
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Well as far as skydiving goes. If you really want to do it . They don't just take you up and have you put on a parachute and toss you out of a plane

    You get a safety course and the first several jumps are done tandem so you are strapped to someone who has jumped large numbers of times so the things that can go wrong are minimal.

    I believe in woo woo but there is a bunch of motivational bull excrement that is mistaken for woo woo and can easily be practiced in place of talking action to give some one the false feeling of growth and progress.

    Let's say hill didn't just plagerize a few other works at the time and actually got the material from interviews with hundreds of successful people. So the practical advice in tagr is basically the modeling if successful people tony robins teaches.

    Now in my view personally the best course is to identify people with a level of success that person is able to achieve. The problem is the general models used are the stand out and the exceptions. Who probably can't repeat their success.

    For me that is people that start with very little and build 2-5 million in net worth over 20- 30 years

    But I studied the fire movement for a year as well those who build wealth between graduating from college and their early 30,s to retire. Seems the majority who pull it of end up with a small business that covers their lifestyles which tend to be frugal.

    But both those models depend on investing in the stock market long term or at least during the bull market of the last 40 years and expecting that to continue forever.


    My view is be frugal buy or build yhe house you can pay of in under ten years or much faster make the house as energy efficient as possible. And live of renewables while preparing most of your meals.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Having a bit of woo versus reality crisis.

    I might have to just accept the reality that I have disabilities. That are permanent. An the goals I have are more built around a lifestyle that minimizes physical pain and eliminates any personal need for long term medications use.

    The problem with motivation or is it in a way vilifies those avoiding or trying to get out of pain or dealing with permanent conditions that produce chronic pain.

    And tends to encourage doing things that cause more pain.

    From a position of pain and suffering a person is motivated to find a way to either heal or temporarily stop the pain. It is a far different state the just the choice between pain or pleasure.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
      Hi Odahh.

      Your post reminds me of "The Serenity Prayer":

      "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."
      There are many things in Life that a Person cannot change ... However something they can always control ― and change ― is how they think about those things. I know I've mentioned that before ― it's just that it really does make a big difference.
      Signature
      "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

        Hi Odahh.

        Your post reminds me of "The Serenity Prayer":


        There are many things in Life that a Person cannot change ... However something they can always control ― and change ― is how they think about those things. I know I've mentioned that before ― it's just that it really does make a big difference.
        I am around people far worse of than I am . But t those same people see how I move. And are telling me not to be stubborn about it.

        My back has probably gotten as better as it is going to get and though I am losing fat. Even if I get down to a healthy weight which I will. I will still be limited in what I can do . Physically.

        Sub consciously the goals I have set already account for this. Probably aim for 1-2 acres instead of five though haha.. mentally the move to Florida has been excellent.

        Physically at least I don't have to rake leaves every weekend in the fall or shovel snow again.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          My back has probably gotten as better as it is going to get and though I am losing fat. Even if I get down to a healthy weight which I will. I will still be limited in what I can do . Physically.
          Maybe so. However losing the weight would still be a good accomplishment. : )
          Signature
          "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Heinz
    Our dream is a ketchup without sugar - bbq style.

    Just dip.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    Not to be woo-woo... just noticed GordonJ hasn't posted in awhile, hope all is well. No offense to others intended or anything - but he is one of the few reasons I even look forward to the Warrior Forum!
    Signature
    Atop a tree with Buddha ain't a bad place to take rest!
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      Not to be woo-woo... just noticed GordonJ hasn't posted in awhile, hope all is well. No offense to others intended or anything - but he is one of the few reasons I even look forward to the Warrior Forum!
      Thanks art72, hope you are writing and getting er done, you have a lot of stored value I'd love to see in the marketplace.

      Been busy. WF is in good hands, I respond when I can contribute, but as of late, taking care of my own woo woo stuff, and some business too.

      I will share some of it, just to toss out ideas. Russia-Ukraine has SPIKED our survival foods and "bunker" business, nothing like the threat of nuclear war to spur some businesses, eh?

      The last year, tens of thousands of business cards have been distributed with the business card connections EDDM business model, and since tests have been better than expected, a rollout into the hundreds of thousands to millions of cards is on the way.

      The "secret" to these is: remote selling, no face to face,just cold emails to businesses with link to show what it is, and a deadline to get on or be excluded.

      I really want as MINIMUM People Contact as possible in my Golden Years, that is, re: clients, customers, consumers.... leave contact for those I WANT in my life.

      Also, still involved with Mail Order, the old ways, with Circular Pubs, getting an offer ready which has been two years in the making, basically, doing PLR offline with real paper and ink products...very old school, albeit very LUCRATIVE.

      Last week my kid made 500 bux for two hours of work, doing video consults, helping scaling that up for when the job ends and its freelance. We have an almost completed TV script (show, book,bible, etc., etc.) ready to be pitched in addition to my own scripts which got pushed to the back burner when Covid hit.

      Now that content is being consumed again by the Entertainment industry, time to see what is there.

      I'd be glad to respond to any questions, I'm in a response mode at WF, but not much for initiating or commenting on existing threads...probably ME, but I don't have interest in much of it.

      This is a fun busy time, where I do what I want for enjoyment, and money is a nice collateral benefit of exercising my modest creative talons.

      So, I'm here, will respnd.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        We talk about making money, and even in this woo woo thread, there is a lot of opportunity.

        I've done well with woo woo over the years, and have participated in other interesting and profitable ventures. Here is a recent story:

        https://bit.ly/3pN2xR3

        BUNKERS. I got started in the whole survival/bunker/stored foods businesses right after I got out of the Navy. See, something they don't discuss (those that sell these things like the co. in the article), is what LIFE will be like living in one.

        I chuckled at the pics from the bunker co. showing the electrical outlets, HA!

        I've spent two and a half months locked in an underwater bunker, aka, a nuclear submarine, and hopefully your bunkers will be co ed, and have your loved ones inside, life locked up in tight spaces for extended periods can be quite stressful.

        Couple this with my cooking experience with a lot of long storage foods, it was a natural for me to get into these business fields. Survival foods, or long term foods, and all things hiding out, have a tendency to boom with Wars. Especially in grain producing nations.

        WHEAT is the commodity to watch, for those into watching them at all.

        We see war prices at the gas pumps, which is a reflection, not of any current shortage, but as a result of speculation there is going to be one in the very near future, those guys will make their money come war or high water.

        FEAR is perhaps one of the top motivators for action, and uncertainty that comes with war triggers all sorts of fear. Look back to the early Covid days and see the rush on toilet paper, bleach, sanitizer all that.

        Same thing happening now, among survivlists, and that is a first warning sign of a trend, depending on how long it lasts.

        Hopefully, no one is going to be forced to head for the hills, where most bunkers are built, and none of us will have to spend long amounts of time in confined spaces, trust me, it isn't a thrill.

        My point is, you don't have to be a profiteer, that is someone who directly profits from war, like arms dealers, the whole military industrial complex industry (they need war) but I have always been more of a Boy Scout, in that being PREPARED for emergencies, rather than being a part of them, and helping others to PREPARE for the worst while living their best lives, is not only practical but dutiful too.

        Watch for spikes in Vitamin Sales, all things preparedness/survivial, guns, ammo, living off the land INFORMATION and other things which get triggered when fear grips the many.

        We hope and pray for peace (those of us NOT in the selling of arms, military stuff, even nuclear submarines)...and we espouse prudence in our business undertakings.

        Now is a good time to be an affiliate of supplements, food, safety and emergency equipment and/or the INFORMATION on any of these things.

        OK.

        GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Gordon
    Outside of potential war . Rents around the country are rising faster than many people can keep up .

    So prefabricated tiny houses like boxable homes or sheds that can be converted to tiny homes . And solar generation of power. And those who produce food and ship it directly to the consumer or buy it from growers and ship directly to customers without needing a retail location

    Or producers who then proceed their produce into higher value or storable products then sell that to end user. The drought / water shortage in California as well as worker shortages with drive those prices up as well or just make that produce disappear.

    War in Ukraine continued lockdowns in China , food shortages in China. And higher shipping costs. And there is probably a dozen more things
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Odahh, you make some good points and possibilities. I see several specialty reports on what you say. Also, some problems, which is great, they (problems) especially lend themselves to the Specialty Report market.

      RENTS, yes, on the rise, the cost of housing going back up too, starter homes of a couple of years ago are now too expensive for young families to acquire, so rent/lease is a growing option, along with the pricing.

      Small, tiny homes. Some problems. #1 is ZONING. Those on wheels, even sheds and prefabs, IF they are mounted on wheels, many places restrict them, classify them as RV's or Mobile homes. Mobile home parks and RV parks are more difficult than ever to get started or to keep going.

      Cities may have restrictions on livable sheds in the backyard, and so we see that one of the solutions to housing (tiny homes) come with a whole nuther set of rules and regs.

      Great for the Creative, who researches and churns out reports targeted to those TINY HOME potential buyers; reports on best states, best counties to go to that welcome these things. Report on how to start a Tiny House community, along with Co-Op growing (many already out there, but some tweaking would be for TODAY'S Tiny Home market).

      How to avoid the hassles of Zoning. Another report, and all together a nice bundle.

      Anyone who has been to the CA beaches, at Santa Monica and Venice recently can see how big the HOMELESS problem is, and tiny homes might help solve that, better yet BOXED living spaces in a parking lot, could be helpful.

      I once wrote to a President (Clinton) on how to solve the homeless problem by using the MOTHBALL fleet, to set up at a few piers on several cities, even a small cruiser, no longer of military value, could easily house hundreds of people and feed them too. Many ships out there that carried 1,000 plus sailors, and they have kitchens (ok galleys) and medical areas, offices, communications and can be used to TRAIN people.

      Maybe I'll bring that idea out of mothballs and see if it floats today.

      We do have a lot of LAND in the USA, and it wouldn't take but a few hundred acres here and there, maybe aroud a small lake, water area, or water supply to offer incentives to the states and counties to restructure their zoning to allow for the development of Mini Cities, and with co-op farming, a lot of people doing a little can feed themselves.

      I wish I had more time, I see a dozen reports I could write right there.

      Probably a lot more than a dozen things, as we try to wean from fossil and try solar and wind and sea, and thermal...there are also problems, batteries being one of them, POWER is the gold of tomorrow. Wind farms for mini cities might help.

      Another PROBLEM, we humans aren't all that keen on helping others out, even though we talk a good story, the reality of it all...such as one of the reasons for the immigration problem throughout the world is due to war, and US has had its hand in that. Gulf war, Iraq and Afghanistan has CREATED a lot of the refugee problem, this isn't political, just a fact.

      Also, life long city dwellers are unlikely to take to the countryside life style, and of course country cousin mouse really doesn't want his city rat cousin to be dragging no dang NY pizza to the barn either.

      There are solutions. I probably won't be around to see most of them.

      But for the Warrior, and about making some money, so they have CHOICES, then there is a lot of opportunity in the being part of the solution and not part of the problem. One way to not be so poor is to help the poorer make some dough, and today, when I say the poor, well, it could be just most of what used to be the middle class.

      But whatever is coming, it behoooves us all to PREPARE the best we can with what we have, and if what we have isn't sufficient, then that might be problem ONE to work on.

      GordonJ





      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Gordon
      Outside of potential war . Rents around the country are rising faster than many people can keep up .

      So prefabricated tiny houses like boxable homes or sheds that can be converted to tiny homes . And solar generation of power. And those who produce food and ship it directly to the consumer or buy it from growers and ship directly to customers without needing a retail location

      Or producers who then proceed their produce into higher value or storable products then sell that to end user. The drought / water shortage in California as well as worker shortages with drive those prices up as well or just make that produce disappear.

      War in Ukraine continued lockdowns in China , food shortages in China. And higher shipping costs. And there is probably a dozen more things
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    I have felt personally with homelessness. And there is what I can personally do to never be homeless again. But it really comes down to solutions based on case by case basis. Consider the amount of wealth tied to real estate and solutions that risk reducing property values are out the window.

    The best I can figure is full self driving homes that pick people up from a part of a city and go back to a parking area that has bathrooms and showers available . And provides a safe place to sleep and store a small amount of personal items.

    Food is not a problem for homeless and health care is as bad as for most low income.

    Everyone needs a place to sleep but not everyone needs a house or home. But showers and a sanitary place to go the bathroom are needs. That don't have to be tied to a home .

    What is coming is a world with a wide range of options that allow people to live in far different ways. Not just ways that perpetually grow the economy

    I would take it out of the hand of governments and charities. And put in a corporate structure. Provide basics for free but charge for a wide range of comfort extras.

    What ever is coming I have been preparing for it to go back to straight up woo. The flow of things has resulted in me refining the basic of what I want and learning to harness many types of energy to start the creative process.

    Although some of it requires monetary energy other things involve other types of energy that can replace the need for money. What I talk about creating here is baby steps . I'm the last month I have been building a relationship that I was not expecting to build until after I got the land and the small house built. So my energy has been directed at that. And there is no hugging and kissing yet.

    Although I can guess what a male who does not know how to explain what he wants. Wants on a base level.

    Holy crap am I clueless trying to get a woman who was very sheltered to admit what she wants. But she it a battery of energy I just want to be around and make her feel safe and protected by my being there.

    Her being there has forced me to refine the vision of what I want and may cause me to achieve certain goals faster than I was expecting.

    And I am definitely achieving about 5 pounds a month weight loss since December 1
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  • Profile picture of the author Just Jess
    Life is too short to procrastinate.
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by Just Jess View Post

      Life is too short to procrastinate.
      Settling for low standards is far worse than procrastination.

      The poor go through large amounts of effort to get handouts and agree to stay poor to keep those handouts. The rich or wealthy create write offs that far exceeds the handouts.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I think mass hypnosis is a better controlled version of mass hysteria....and the rest is mostly gossip. I know - simplistic, but I avoid groups of people just in case.
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      • Profile picture of the author art72
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I think mass hypnosis is a better controlled version of mass hysteria....and the rest is mostly gossip. I know - simplistic, but I avoid groups of people just in case.
        I think this is by far the most accurate way to view the masses from a neutral perspective.

        Unfortunately, this mindset (*or acknowledgement to the powers of influence) often come as we mature and really start to appreciate the values of our time, energy, and being.

        This cripples me as I was always an outdoor person, extrovert, and needed to some degree to be in the crowd, as if the attention from others was the reward... and it is impart - just as marketing or business states; "Attention is social currency!"

        I am deep in state of seclusion, almost agoraphobic- but neither due to the fear of the outside influences, those threats (plagues, wars, danger, crisis, poverty, etc.) - but rather in acknowledging that "so few people" appear to concern themselves with the consequences of their ignorance, actions, and "expectations" of "being forgiven".

        Granted, I sincerely have "given more forgiveness" to ignorance than I have sought to receive, and today - I fear what might happen "if we as a whole collectively" STOP FORGIVING those who prey on that very thing - only to spread more ignorance!

        I am trying not to physically punish the ONE person on this earth that changed my entire course from drugs, alcohol, and stupid "mindless self indulgences" as a young man... so, my agoraphobia IS NOT common... I don't fear what's outside, I fear what I may be forced to do "IF" the hyptnotized continue to IGNORE reality...and I'll admit; one's reality may differ from another - but, I think there are UNIVERSAL TRUTHS that cannot be easily ignored by anyone!!!

        So I stay away from crowds now too!
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    So, here we are, and one thing I want to get across is, coming from a background and a lifetime of study into all things woowoo, it has always been my objective to look for the practical and useful bits and pieces of any sort of mind/thought/spirit studies.
    I've studied Woo Woo the same way James Randi did. I study how we could come to believe such things in the face of strong evidence that they are not true.

    I've studied Cold Reading, slight of hand, and stage magicians. These were interesting to me because of how we perceive such things, and how beliefs are cemented in our mind.

    The benefits of studying these Woo Woo subjects has always been (to me) a way to further understand human nature.


    Originally Posted by Tanda Copywriting View Post

    For something to be rational, I think it must be in the interest of your desires right?
    No.

    Rationality has to do with the structure of the thought, not in any benefit the thought gives you.

    Rational thinking isn't in the interest of your desires or anything else. Rational thinking is in the interest of seeing reality, whether it matches your desires or not.




    Originally Posted by Tanda Copywriting View Post

    As David Hume says, reason is the slave of the passions
    Yup. We love to see ourselves as rational thinkers. But our instincts and emotions control us. reason is almost always just our way of making sense of what we already believe....trying to explain our passions and actions so we don't sound insane.. And that's not rational thinking at all.

    As a salesman who has sold to tens of thousands of people, I can tell you that rarely do I hear a rational statement. Every conversation is bristling with anxiety, prejudices, justifications, excuses, irrational arguments, faulty logic, and massive efforts to keep rapport going.

    This is both an aggravation to me personally, and a tool to show the path I need to take to make the sale.

    So these Woo Woo thoughts are useful if you understand the underlying causes, direction, and momentum they exhibit, and know how to align yourself with them to create a sale......but believing them personally? I have never seen the benefit, other than it's fun.

    Heck, I genuinely tried to levitate until I was about 17 years old, bought books on how to do it (real levitation, not illusions), I believed, in my Kung Fu practice, that Chi was a real thing...until I was 40 or so.

    I'm a slow study.

    Added later; I'm guilty of irrational thinking as well. But it's impossible to see your own mistakes in reasoning. To us, almost every thought we have is perfectly rational.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tanda Copywriting
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      No.

      Rationality has to do with the structure of the thought, not in any benefit the thought gives you.

      Rational thinking isn't in the interest of your desires or anything else. Rational thinking is in the interest of seeing reality, whether it matches your desires or not.
      "in the interest of seeing reality" though is just another passion or desire.

      The point I was making is that reason does not set our aims. "Wanting to understand reality" is an aim (and no more justified) than "wanting to figure out how to get your prospect to say yes"

      What reason does is that it helps us achieve our aims, whatever they are... and that can be finding out the truth, making a sale, etc.

      But, if you're acting in a way that isn't in the interest of your desires (whether that is finding out the truth or otherwise) that qualifies as irrational.

      We call someone a madman when he acts in a way that is contrary to his own interests. If you want to go for a walk, but choose to throw yourself out the window as a way to get outside the house, that would qualify as irrational in my book because it prevents you from doing what you wanted to do (go for a walk), because you'll be dead or injured.

      So these Woo Woo thoughts are useful if you understand the underlying causes, direction, and momentum they exhibit, and know how to align yourself with them to create a sale......but believing them personally? I have never seen the benefit, other than it's fun.

      Heck, I genuinely tried to levitate until I was about 17 years old, bought books on how to do it (real levitation, not illusions), I believed, in my Kung Fu practice, that Chi was a real thing...until I was 40 or so.

      I'm a slow study.

      Added later; I'm guilty of irrational thinking as well. But it's impossible to see your own mistakes in reasoning. To us, almost every thought we have is perfectly rational.
      I agree with this. And funnily enough, I do think so-called miracles are possible, BUT what I disagree with is that they can be under anyone's control. What most "woo woo" literature makes you think is that you can control miracles and have them happen according to your will.

      There are still people who claim to be able to levitate in places like Tibet, but I can't believe that.
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by Tanda Copywriting View Post

        "in the interest of seeing reality" though is just another passion or desire.

        What reason does is that it helps us achieve our aims, whatever they are... and that can be finding out the truth, making a sale, etc.

        But, if you're acting in a way that isn't in the interest of your desires (whether that is finding out the truth or otherwise) that qualifies as irrational.

        We call someone a madman when he acts in a way that is contrary to his own interests. If you want to go for a walk, but choose to throw yourself out the window as a way to get outside the house, that would qualify as irrational in my book because it prevents you from doing what you wanted to do (go for a walk), because you'll be dead or injured.


        There are still people who claim to be able to levitate in places like Tibet, but I can't believe that.
        I admit that I am crazy. And most people who interact with me realize I am at least very different.

        Most humans have ways the just behave and use what ever little brain power they can be bothered with actually those to come up with some reason for the many behaviors that apparently work against their long term self interest. Or even their near term self interest.

        Then there is activity doing things that make their situation worse and blaming everyone around them. And never trying to change things for themselves.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Tanda Copywriting View Post


        But, if you're acting in a way that isn't in the interest of your desires (whether that is finding out the truth or otherwise) that qualifies as irrational.
        Another way to be irrational. A very good definition, by the way.

        Added later; My one cat thinks that if it eats, I'll pet it. Somehow, it has associated my petting with his eating. They are unrelated. This is irrational thinking. Humans do much the same thing. We connect one event with another, in an irrational way. But you really have to study rational thinking to see these flaws. That's what I usually think of as irrational thinking. But acting against your own self interest (If you are unaware you are doing so) is also a way to be irrational.


        Originally Posted by Tanda Copywriting View Post

        There are still people who claim to be able to levitate in places like Tibet, but I can't believe that.
        I know it isn't true. None of these claims are ever successful when tested by non-believers. And the same mechanism to simulate levitation is used in every case.

        If a claim requires someone to believe it's true, for it to work...then it isn't true.

        In Tibet, they are called Fakers for a reason.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tanda Copywriting
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Another way to be irrational. A very good definition, by the way.

          Added later; My one cat thinks that if it eats, I'll pet it. Somehow, it has associated my petting with his eating. They are unrelated. This is irrational thinking. Humans do much the same thing. We connect one event with another, in an irrational way. But you really have to study rational thinking to see these flaws. That's what I usually think of as irrational thinking. But acting against your own self interest (If you are unaware you are doing so) is also a way to be irrational.
          This is a very interesting example. So you're saying that rational thinking requires the correct connection of cause and effect. I'm not sure I can agree. For example, one book I've read and liked is by philosopher Paul Feyerabend, and it's called Against Reason. In it he makes the point, for example, that the Catholic Church was rational in claiming that Galileo couldn't make the claims he did given the available evidence. Telescopes and other instruments were very new, and still untested devices at the times. Given the available information, skepticism of making any strong claims was rationally warranted until further testing, even though it proved wrong.

          I agree with this. I don't think we're required to be right in order to be rational. So long as we follow a thinking process that is rational, we are being rational, even though our conclusions may be wrong due to limited data or wrong interpretation of the evidence.

          Irrational on the other hand may be something like thinking that all men are mortal, and drawing from that the conclusion that all mortals must be men. That would be an error of reason since it goes against the laws of logic.

          I can also agree with a more limited version of the statement you put forward. It is irrational to fail to make the correct cause and effect inference provided that the evidence is sufficient to warrant it. For example, many people think that the law of attraction is true. They set a goal to "attract" $10,000, then they see themselves in possession of the money, feel as if they possess it, and then somehow or other, they do make that money. They then attribute that success to the law of attraction, even though in terms of cause and effect there is no link, and sufficient evidence for them to believe that there isn't one.

          Also, another important differentiation we need to make in this discussion is between truth value and use value. Some things have low truth value, and high use value. Think of Newtonian mechanics. We know that the theory isn't how reality really works (at least according to our latest understandings). And yet we still use it, because in everyday life, its approximations have high use value.

          So the law of attraction may be something like that - high use value, but low truth value, and the causality is different than the practitioners think it to be.

          There's also the Nietzschean idea that "lies are necessary to life", ie they may be false, but they have use-value that we need.

          There is also an attack here that can be made on the idea of cause and effect itself. What is cause and effect? Fundamentally, all we mean by it, is that the same effect (or range of effects) seems to the follow the same cause. And we've created some rules about it. The cause must be prior to the effect temporarily, and the two must always be linked, such that if at any point in the future the cause occurs, the effect must follow as night follows day.

          But is this a rational belief? As Hume showed with his criticism of the law of induction, it can't be. There are no grounds to think that this is the case, apart from saying that that's what we've observed so far... however the future may be different. We've been conditioned to observe that apples fall to the ground when we drop them, because in literarily 100% of our experiments, this is what happened. But there's always the possibility in the future that this won't happen - a black swan event. Of course, we would be SHOCKED if this were to actually happen to us, but not because what happens is irrational, but because a very strong expectation was just violated.

          That's why it's very possible that "cause and effect" is one of those useful lies that helps us make better predictions, but has no truth value. All that we observe are regularities, and regularities give us reason to expect them again. But just like the turkey may expect to be fed daily, until one day he isn't fed, and the owner kills and eats him! So cause and effect, under this view, is just us projecting our expectations of continued regularity upon the world, which may or may not be like this.

          I know it isn't true. None of these claims are ever successful when tested by non-believers. And the same mechanism to simulate levitation is used in every case.

          If a claim requires someone to believe it's true, for it to work...then it isn't true.

          In Tibet, they are called Fakers for a reason.
          Hahaaaa! What do you think about placebo (which is basically the power of belief)? Placebo is better than nothing, so clearly our belief does have some sort of effect, at least when it comes to our own organism. And yet, it's a claim that requires that you believe it to be true for it to work :O
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by Tanda Copywriting View Post

            the Catholic Church was rational in claiming that Galileo couldn't make the claims he did given the available evidence. Telescopes and other instruments were very new, and still untested devices at the times. Given the available information,


            I agree with this. I don't think we're required to be right in order to be rational. So long as we follow a thinking process that is rational, we are being rational, even though our conclusions may be wrong due to limited data or wrong interpretation of the evidence.
            Yup. Thinking rationally is the process, not the conclusion. We can have perfectly rational strings of logic, and be completely wrong....usually because we base our argument on a faulty premise.

            Originally Posted by Tanda Copywriting View Post

            Also, another important differentiation we need to make in this discussion is between truth value and use value. Some things have low truth value, and high use value. Think of Newtonian mechanics. We know that the theory isn't how reality really works (at least according to our latest understandings). And yet we still use it, because in everyday life, its approximations have high use value.
            Newtonian physics works, the idea just break down on a sub atomic level. i won't pretend to know how Quantum physics works, but I know it only applies to the sub atomic level.

            Originally Posted by Tanda Copywriting View Post

            There's also the Nietzschean idea that "lies are necessary to life", ie they may be false, but they have use-value that we need.
            Jordan Peterson has a lot to say about stories and how the are true. Even if the story itself didn't really happen, the "truth" is in what we learn from it. It's not the way I think, but I understand his point of view.





            Originally Posted by Tanda Copywriting View Post

            That's why it's very possible that "cause and effect" is one of those useful lies that helps us make better predictions, but has no truth value.
            Sometimes it's a lie, and sometimes we jut don't know better. To me, "Truth" is something that is real. To many, truth is something that works, or is of benefit, whether it's real or not.

            Originally Posted by Tanda Copywriting View Post

            Hahaaaa! What do you think about placebo (which is basically the power of belief)? Placebo is better than nothing, so clearly our belief does have some sort of effect, at least when it comes to our own organism. And yet, it's a claim that requires that you believe it to be true for it to work :O
            I have to admit, I have never really studied the placebo effect. But yes, I know that our brains create effects based on what we expect.

            Something you may find interesting. I've studied hypnosis and talked extensively with a friend who was a stage hypnotist in Las Vegas for years, and is also a psychologist who uses hypnosis in his practice.

            Hypnosis is the process of getting your subject to believe that what you say is true. Once that belief is accepted, you can take control of many of their higher functions.

            Getting people to be certain that what you say is true is hypnosis. It's also a huge part of advanced selling. It's why certainty in your voice and language is so powerful when selling. It also works in politics and religion.

            If you sound absolutely certain in what you say, no matter how preposterous it is....you'll get a large percentage of your listeners to simply accept that what you say is true.

            This is far more powerful in arguments than just being rational. I speak from experience.
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            • Profile picture of the author Tanda Copywriting
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              I have to admit, I have never really studied the placebo effect. But yes, I know that our brains create effects based on what we expect.

              Something you may find interesting. I've studied hypnosis and talked extensively with a friend who was a stage hypnotist in Las Vegas for years, and is also a psychologist who uses hypnosis in his practice.

              Hypnosis is the process of getting your subject to believe that what you say is true. Once that belief is accepted, you can take control of many of their higher functions.

              Getting people to be certain that what you say is true is hypnosis. It's also a huge part of advanced selling. It's why certainty in your voice and language is so powerful when selling. It also works in politics and religion.

              If you sound absolutely certain in what you say, no matter how preposterous it is....you'll get a large percentage of your listeners to simply accept that what you say is true.

              This is far more powerful in arguments than just being rational. I speak from experience.
              Very interesting thanks for sharing. I've never studied hypnosis but have been doing sales for 9-10 years, as an entrepreneur. Any good sources to learn more about hypnosis and how it works?
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by Tanda Copywriting View Post

                Very interesting thanks for sharing. I've never studied hypnosis but have been doing sales for 9-10 years, as an entrepreneur. Any good sources to learn more about hypnosis and how it works?
                The best book is Patterns of the Hypnotic Techniques of Milton H. Erickson, M.D, Vol. 1.. No longer in print, the most exhaustive book on ways to hypnotize I've ever read.

                Another book that is completely transferable to selling is The Full Facts Book Of Cold Reading: The definitive guide to how cold reading is used in the psychic industry
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                • Profile picture of the author art72
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  The best book is Patterns of the Hypnotic Techniques of Milton H. Erickson, M.D, Vol. 1.. No longer in print, the most exhaustive book on ways to hypnotize I've ever read.

                  Another book that is completely transferable to selling is The Full Facts Book Of Cold Reading: The definitive guide to how cold reading is used in the psychic industry
                  It never ceases to amaze me how the human mind works, as you mentioned Milton Erickson, I have barely examined his works, but know through other studies in NLP and people like John Grinder, the "perceived thought" is often far from the "reality" most people condition themselves to accept, believe, or in-turn behave themselves.

                  As Gordon and several others here have spoken largely in respect to "rational and irrational" thinking, I have to think back to all the years I was conditioned, influenced, and to a degree; my mind has been 'impregnated' with thoughts, concepts, and the ideologies of others.

                  Perhaps the greatest personal struggle for me has been to maintain 'faith' in God. With so many people carrying a specific bias as to what they conceive or flat out dispute the existence of altogether; I sincerely "do not" believe 'either the believer, nor non-believer of God' is entirely all-right or all-wrong in the sense; many who profess a belief in a higher power, omnipotent creator, or Source from which all life stems... seem to overstep their boundaries of applying ANY common-sense.

                  Just look back throughout history, more wars have been fought over "who's beliefs in the spiritual divinity actually wins?"

                  Meanwhile, even those who "DO NOT BELIEVE in the POSITIVE IDEA of CREATION EXISTS" will openly admit; they DO BELIEVE in the NEGATIVE IDEA that EVIL EXISTS! - it reaches beyond any rational means of understanding; which to me is to "STAND UNDER" someone or something more powerful, knowledgeable, or capable of understanding than yourself, I, or we as a whole currently possess.

                  I'll openly admit; I cannot simply IGNORE or easily dismiss all-in-which "I KNOW NOT" -as the greater mysteries, unknown forces, foreign, and/or alien nature of being amongst *7.8 billion people who are not entitled to possessing the definitive ability to "KNOW EVERYTHING" kind of sucks!!! - As we can choose to ACCEPT or DENY what we feel is beneficial to ONLY our own being or the COLLECTIVE WHOLE of BEING!

                  I just revisited an interview with Tony Robbins, Frank Kern, and John Reese... it was 9 years ago, Frank was his usual old-self, and Tony was like THE GODFATHER in their eyes...

                  But... what people often fail to do - is seek the source!

                  Who taught Tony?
                  What motivated him?
                  Why do *98% of students FAIL to USE the knowledge they receive from SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE.

                  Clearly, we cannot MODEL GOD (*though some would argue that concept) and yet, WE CAN do a SEARCH with a few clicks online; and LOCATE...

                  Experts in nearly ANY known or established niche-market!
                  Leaders in nearly ANY industry!
                  Visionaries spanning the globe who share a vision!
                  Entrepreneurs who live & breathe BUSINESS!
                  Writers who inspire, educate, equip, entertain, etc...
                  Musicians who orchestrate poetic NOISES (*which I love, BTW!)

                  and... it doesn't really matter what field of study (academically acquired or in the field, hands-on) and we still struggle to CHOOSE who we TRULY DESIRE to BE or BECOME!

                  I started working on a report...

                  It centers on much of what this thread represents in trying to understand;

                  "WHAT do other people consider WOO-WOO and/or to be become too fanatical?

                  WE absolutely DO WORRY what others will do, say, or think...

                  If we didn't, none of us would be here, there would be no rules, no jobs, no markets, no communication, and it would all just be anarchy: total chaos and carnage, which still rears its head - as war, plagues, diseases, and insanity still exists in our world!

                  I choose to respect the UNKNOWN (*I call it GOD)... as it would seem ignorant to me to blindly ignore the POTENTIAL THREAT(S) - not knowing can cause a person or persons WHO DO NOT respect or have any reverence for the UNKNOWN, FOREIGN, or ALIEN forces in our realm of existence!

                  The part that kills me is there are people in this world who cannot discern the difference between:

                  - The AUTHORITY (*like their Government for example)

                  -VS-

                  - The INFLUENCERS (*like Facebook for example)

                  Some people have more respect for FB than they do their government, as the "Community Guidelines" dictate what can or cannot be tolerated on "X" platform or in "Y" like your country - as the rules were established - by others (*as are most of the influences we remain under or are EXPECTED to abide by, respect, and operate under!)

                  But... if "WE" as a whole all spoke OPENLY - we'd likely AGREE; THE PEOPLE (*7.8 Billion or so...) SHOULD better REPRESENT both their independence and RESPECT the AUTHORITY - WE AS A WHOLE could demand.

                  Instead, the MAJORITY FORFEIT their rightful inheritance and SUFFER due to their inability to (*again) apply RATIONAL THINKING!!!

                  I see it everywhere!

                  I believe to be suffering currently from a form of AGORAPHOBIA to wit, I was an EXTROVERT for 98% of my 50 years of living on this EARTH - suddenly, I've become INTROVERTED and it IS NOT the fear of what is OUTSIDE as most people with agoraphobia suffer unto - my problem is INSIDE as to what I might do "IF the IGNORANT" continue to threaten the MAJORITY - as these so-called AUTHORITIES are beyond WOO-WOO in my earnest and honest opinion!

                  One example:

                  "By 2030 You Will Own Nothing and Be Happy!"

                  Oh yeah... there is a counter-balance to every THREAT!

                  Maybe we should be educating both ourselves and others to WHO TRULY possesses the most AUTHORITY & INFLUENCE on this planet?

                  Most would say The MONEY... I strongly disagree. I say "WE the Collective Whole" can and should start fixing what now appears to be The NEW World DIS-ORDER!

                  or...

                  We had better have a few 100-Million-Dollars (*at least) in our bank accounts!

                  WOO-WOO to me is TOLERATING TOO MUCH "WILLFUL" IGNORANCE!
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by art72 View Post

                    Perhaps the greatest personal struggle for me has been to maintain 'faith' in God. With so many people carrying a specific bias as to what they conceive or flat out dispute the existence of altogether; I sincerely "do not" believe 'either the believer, nor non-believer of God' is entirely all-right or all-wrong in the sense; many who profess a belief in a higher power, omnipotent creator, or Source from which all life stems... seem to overstep their boundaries of applying ANY common-sense.
                    You may find this helpful.

                    Study rational thinking. learn about logical fallacies.
                    With effort, it's possible to ignore the specific belief, and just judge whether the argument itself is rational.

                    It becomes a form of math. You are looking at the structure of the argument (or claim) itself, not what it claims.

                    A poorly structured argument is a symptom of a belief that isn't true.

                    If you engage in this study of how rational thought works, and the mistakes in reasoning that are commonly made...you'll begin to recognize the cracks in arguments, propositions, beliefs...that were invisible before.

                    When I first started studying rational thought in a serious way, there were many days I felt like crying. And I did a few times. I would start to recognize these poorly thought out arguments, that supported "truths" I held as immutable. It's painful to see that things you were certain to be true, were only held together with the flimsiest of arguments, all full of holes. All based on faulty assumptions.

                    It's an experience I don't recommend. And thankfully, most people never experience.

                    A word of warning....nobody... wants to hear how their reasoning is flawed. Nobody welcomes it or appreciates their mistake in reasoning being pointed out.

                    And, you'll find it's far easier to spot mistakes in reasoning in others, than in your own thought process.

                    To ourselves, we are the rational one in a sea of madness. Politically, anyone to the left of us or right of us are thought of as far right or far left. We always think we are in the "Common sense middle".

                    And to us, even the most ridiculous belief, if we have already accepted it, makes perfect sense.

                    Humans.
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                  • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                    Originally Posted by art72 View Post

                    WOO-WOO to me is TOLERATING TOO MUCH "WILLFUL" IGNORANCE!
                    Is it you being tolerant, or those who choose woowoo who are self tolerant of their own beliefs, knowing, they probably are "wrong"? I have chosen the following definition, correct me if you are thinking of something else, OK?

                    A decision in bad faith to avoid becoming informed about something so as to avoid having to make undesirable decisions that such information might prompt. OR the choice to ignore any facts or information that does not conform to their belief.

                    Willful says to me; stubborness.

                    So, I'm of a mind that most don't have as much, if any, self-awareness as to the origin of their tightly held thought.

                    In studies of human behavior, the amazing thing that keeps popping up is: predictibility of the masses, UNPREDICTABLE individual.

                    As fun as it is to get into philosophy, psychology, and sociology, from a marketers standpoint (the hat I put on for WF), it seems a lot of mental masturbation without the intent of influence toward a specific end.

                    And although I occassionally love a good circle jerk, at the end of my marketing day, I have to look at either red or black ink on the ledger.

                    Don't get me wrong, I love these discussions, very illuminating, but here is the thing for most Warriors.

                    If they get hung up on what other people think, or why the masses suffer from self inflicted hysteria, they tend to wind up right in the thick of them. And as for power and authority, doesn't history show us it always comes down to the ONE, and that one is us.

                    No?

                    GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Ok I am in a sharp mood.

    The main irrational beliefs I judge people on weather I want to deal with the on a regular basis. Is a grasp of basic math.

    If someone is to stupid to do basic math and actually thing the rich person with the 7 figure income paying 17 percent tax rate is actually paying less taxes tha ther 45,000 dollars income and what every rate they pay.

    Even if the7 figure person is paying no taxes other taxes being generated by the activity far surpasses the income taxes paid but and individual with median to average income.

    I have only really been studying wealth creation for the last 4 years . And the reason I started was when the in inequality people really started blabbing on . The the 1 percent get most of the income from wealth witch is taxed at far lower rates than earned income.

    I'm crazy so I figured I should start learning about wealth than trying to just earn more money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Ok I am in a sharp mood.

      The main irrational beliefs I judge people on weather I want to deal with the on a regular basis. Is a grasp of basic math.
      It's not an inability to do math.

      Math never enters into it. Most people have a position...an opinion of someone else that they have accepted as their own.

      When someone hears "The rich pay less taxes than the poor", it triggers a reaction, a feeling of the rich cheating to earn their money. A system designed to keep the poor....poor.

      If you see yourself as one of the poor people taken advantage of by the rich...you'll never question it. You'll never do the math at all.

      When a 40 year old man with a college degree sees another 40 year old man with the same college degree...and the other man ids earning a million dollars a year, and they are barely getting by.....it's important to see the rich guy as evil, cheating, lucky.....

      A stark difference in income triggers low self esteem, bitterness, resentment, anger.
      Being poor is turned into a virtue. And that sense of virtue is the defense against feeling that you are responsible for your position in life.
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      "Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity" Friedrich Nietzsche
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        It's not an inability to do math.


        A stark difference in income triggers low self esteem, bitterness, resentment, anger.
        Being poor is turned into a virtue. And that sense of virtue is the defense against feeling that you are responsible for your position in life.
        Being around it it something different or the basic concept is the people are really all about making money when they are making it. But they are against others making money..

        And most or all of the people with that mindset get stuck low on the income ladder.

        The more complex thing is the number of poor people waiting for someone else to create jobs for them or revitalize their neighborhoods.
        And never trying to move around to where the jobs they can do are
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        • Profile picture of the author art72
          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          Being around it it something different or the basic concept is the people are really all about making money when they are making it. But they are against others making money..

          And most or all of the people with that mindset get stuck low on the income ladder.

          The more complex thing is the number of poor people waiting for someone else to create jobs for them or revitalize their neighborhoods.
          And never trying to move around to where the jobs they can do are
          As a person who was locally self-employed in service-based industries for 32 of my 38 years working, I have to agree with Claude, a lot of people who were raised with hard working hourly or salary-based parents or guardians (*if they were lucky enough to have that upbringing) do suffer from a sub-conscious level virtue of being poor, I know to some degree; that is a crutch I have fought to overcome, did for a good long while, and now I am back to trying to overcome again for the up-teen'th time.

          Many of the teachings, doctrines, and disciplines both academic and religious (or spiritual) suggest; "the lowly and the meek shall inherit the earth" and I know that was a core virtue in my upbringing, as I was raised by a single mother, and a few different step-fathers. I have no brothers or sisters, so a pad a pen, and pool table were my best friends at home as a kid - when I wasn't outside acting like Tarzan, which was most of my life!

          On the flip side, the sub-conscious encryptions are sticky-sticky like goo - whether we like it or not, and I knew nothing of the sub-level thoughts, habits, or abundance blockers, etc. until I lost everything nearly 15 years ago, that's when I actually started reading books and exploring the cause and effects of money, but more importantly; how our upbringing, environment, and those "environmental signals" are often negative in families that have to budget in order to sustain a living.

          Now, you are not wrong to suggest too many people "sit in wait" for money to fall from the sky. My son and I are finished - I sincerely do not know if I can even find forgiveness for his level of ignorance, laziness, and betrayal to his own son, mother, and myself. He blew through $60K in 3 months, has nothing to show for it, but a few toys, and he left us in a bad situation and in-debt to bills he didn't pay - when he lived with us last year. He just walks out the door and disappeared, he's done it 2x there will never be a 3rd time, regardless of his excuses, and he is neither a drug-addict or an alcoholic, I was both in my younger years, not today - but for years I was a wild-one!

          I certainly would've given him everything, or more when opportunity permitted, but over the last 4-5 years, I have been in a spiritual/mental conflict - trying to over-write my old beliefs. I'll admit to having some major trust issues...I cannot trust anyone, as everyone I know operates on a "I could care less about you attitude, as if you owe them before you met them!" - family, people I have done jobs for that do not honor their agreements, you name it - I find those people everywhere, and I am the one seeking solutions to such problems, go figure!

          My (2) daughters are not that way, but both my daughters are single moms, raising a child each, as their baby-daddy's are both dead beats (*these guys take no responsibility, it's sick), as is my own son a dead beat to his 9 year son, he's losing his parental rights as we speak, he doesn't care about anything! We raised 3 kids and I was fortunate to have average $75k to $90k in my peak years in industry and service. My son had dirt bikes, video games, expensive RC trucks, and he wasn't spoiled, but certainly wasn't some starved child, matter of fact, he ate the most and I don't think at 28 years old he's ever spent $200 at a grocery store or filled a refrigerator with food in his lifetime. He hunts at the Mac-Donald's!!!

          My days of 100-hour-work weeks in the fields of hard-core construction are long-gone. I think the overall 'programming' has many under a sort of cosmic negative vibe - or -fear and that scares me, and I am the hard-core construction, we'll fight if need be type of guy. Maybe not so much today as age, aches, and pains...along with "feeding my brain daily" has me trying to transmute available and abundant resources into the equivalence of gold... and adopt a more befitting attitude than what was required in the arenas I grew up in.

          I think if people understood; money is ONLY ONE RESOURCE - they would be more apt to BELIEVE in others and themselves more and be quicker to desire helping others, whereas, in the neighborhoods I have lived over the past 10 years, I barely associate to any one, as many are alcoholics, drug addicted, and they are not educated.

          I wasn't either, so I am not passing judgement, I simply choose not to continue those pursuits - sought to escape poverty, and still do. But to truly define poverty would encompass the high 90% of the population - so it is definite based on some negative vibes, the powers of influence, and I believe a form of subliminal programming.

          And... I blame myself, no one else for my current financial burdens, but that is where my creative genius thrives, now if only I could get the "first written work" available for download online, I'd be 1000X better for it... meanwhile I obsess over "giving away a FREE REPORT - concerned if it bombs - I will lose the respect of those whom I respect, study, and hope to emulate!

          Mirror, model, and framework... nobody learned ANYTHING without someone else teaching them first, even if they do or did eventually surpass their initial teachers as I have been known to do offline... online is so much more "THINKING" and yet I build your home, your pool, fix and repair your vehicle and nearly anything mechanical.

          This internet thing allows me to be whoever I want, hide behind a screen, and I could sell wool to sheep - but it seems soooo wrong, so that poor man's virtue is relevant, or I'd be raking in mad cash already. I want to conduct ETHICAL business, for what it's worth.

          And...I apologize for being long-winded (*bad habit), I've been up for 2 days creating 3D eCovers, boxes, and report covers for 2.5 days without sleep - jacked on caffeine and sugar!
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          Being around it it something different or the basic concept is the people are really all about making money when they are making it. But they are against others making money..
          And yet the truth is that most people who are wealthy would love for everyone else to be wealthy as well. And they often bend over backwards to help anyone that shows the slightest bit of initiative.

          The majority of my friends are wealthy (or well off) business owners. All of them share this mind set.
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          "Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity" Friedrich Nietzsche
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          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            And yet the truth is that most people who are wealthy would love for everyone else to be wealthy as well. And they often bend over backwards to help anyone that shows the slightest bit of initiative.

            The majority of my friends are wealthy (or well off) business owners. All of them share this mind set.
            I understand that. A lot of the mindset talk here is fairly useless. As it doesn't get into the gory details of mindset.

            I have shifted into a more the effect is the cause mindset or outlook. Others are in cause and effect.
            And others are in shit happened and I will always be this way because of what happened in the past.

            People who goals work for are the effect is the cause mindset.. " I am working on this thing I want in the future so I am doing this now."

            And the language if the other two groups gets tiresome and disgusting.

            There is a fourth group the exceptional performers . Who would destroy themselves without some avenues to be highly productive. But that is a fraction of 1 percent.
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            • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

              " I am working on this thing I want in the future so I am doing this now."
              I don't understand your whole cause/effect argument, but I do understand this^^^^^

              Working today to get results in the future, I might argue that is the ONLY mindset one needs to have, how would I be wrong?

              Now, it comes with built in caveats, such as better to enjoy than be miserable. If TODAY requires stress, efforts filled with agony, distaste rather than joy, happiness then one must go back to the WANT and the WHY, right?

              The mantra; do what you love, the money will follow...is plabamatic, just not true, but that could be because of what we mean about doing what we love.

              If the goal is escaping misery and suffering, then that is a different mindset altogether.

              Today a popular idea, MINDFULNESS, would have us be AWARE of our today, and be aware in a state of pleasure, or at least comfortable satisfaction that our efforts are automatically taking us toward the end result.

              For any Warrior who comes here hoping to learn how to make money from Internet marketing or to have an Internet based business, the only mindset they should have or bring with them is that they will be working TODAY for some result (effect) in the future and wise Warrior wisdom says to make the day as enjoyable or meaninful as you can as you anticipate a goal reached.

              GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Art I have been outside the USA and homeless inside the USA. And homeless in the USA in many cases are far better off than about 60 percent of the human race outside of the USA.

    People will always have a poverty mindset or a poor mindset even if they have a million in investments and the are looking at the person with 20 million who charters private jets and eat caviar and wague. And black silky chicken on a regular basis.

    We are far richer than we have ever been and poor people have today have many thing the richest king or billionaires 100 years ago could not dream of having.

    Own nothing an be happy compared to the current state that many own things as long as you can keep up with the payments.

    How many of the movies you can watch on Netflix and other streaming services do you own. How many of the videos on YouTube. How about content on Facebook or Instagram.

    Look at the right to repair stuff and understand a lot of the stuff you buy the software that runs them you never own.

    New world order and globalization gave individuals with the willingness to learn how the ability to get stuff made in China ship it to the USA and sell on Amazon eBay and other platforms.

    Rapid de globalization will change that and move much of that to Mexico or on demand automation some places in the USA. I've the coming decade.

    Looking at food production and meal delivery services. Many people will probably never need a traditional kitchen again they will have premise meals custom made for them to heat up in an microwave or air fry toaster oven.

    Yes there will always be restaurants and grocery store and regular takeout.

    Any as long as people do not want to acknowledge the wonderful things they have for nearly free people will stay poor in mindset and personal actions but the world will continue to spit out new and wonderful things.
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  • Profile picture of the author Just Jess
    You're in trance
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Gordon

    This is my own personal view on the misery and suffering aspect. And I am different so I don't expect anyone else to view it this way.

    6 years ago in Vegas the little whiny human wondering why certain things where happening in my life got a response from a source other than the little whiny human.

    I'm going full into woo woo here. I can no longer just escape or cope with any type of personal misery and suffering. Every time there is a big situation cause it a large amount of misery and suffering. The little whiny human has had to learn to view it as a type of pruning that encourages growth or having a bone that healed improperly rebroken and reset to heal properly.

    So I can't really sugar coat the misery and suffering. I can feel every bit of pain and use it to go through the process so that issue stays in the past.

    How can I use the pain and misery and other types of suffering involved in what is happening to permanently make changes that result in a healthier happier me . Going forward. Using the misery I have gone through the first 44 years of my life to create a much happier life the next 40 or so which is the average lifespan of family members
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Thanks Odahh,

      I think you have hit upon the essence of woowoo, as opposed to the opinion that anyone can simply change or control the "programming" as another member suggests.

      Woowoo is beneficial to the extent it is applicable. It is personal, unscientific, not necessarily rational.

      Unlike, say heuristic accounting, where everyone has the same rules, the ledger doesn't lie, albeit it can get creative...but a net profit vs expenses can be seen, analyzed and looked at.

      Same for much of the statistical analysis used or math when calculating prices and profits, math doesn't adjust to the user or the person pushing the buttons.

      But when we get into the mind, and there are those who preach, teach and believe there are SET RULES which govern us all, we find that there is a huge chasm between the masses and the individual and that in the end, almost all believers are anecdotal, which they by necessity have to be.

      To say DO THIS, think this, continue this and YOU will get that (or as gurus like to say, do what I did, get what I got, a very false premise found throughout woowoo).

      You have discovered yourself and now know what will work for you and what won't and you show your resistance to the woowoo mass advice crowd through your individuality, while others, maybe even critics, would say YOU aren't doing, or trying or thinking the right things. See, that is their belief in universal woowoo laws, and in many ways it goes back to all of the "one size fits all" thinking.

      So I will say it is good that YOU have found out what works best for you to not fall back into old patterns or to be caught in drama, either self or outside created and to have become aware of those ideas which do not suit you.

      When working in some areas of social services with persons with learning disabilities or even some on the spectrum, we would offer a TRY ANOTHER WAY alternative to the commonly held soultion, such as learning to tie a shoe or a tie, maybe slip on or clip on would be a better answer vs the frustration of not being able to do it the "right" way.

      And that is my point, I don't believe there is a RIGHT way, there is a way that may have worked for many, perhaps the majority, but to discount those that it didn't work for and to place blame on them, well it is the out of all gurus, self certain they hold the truth types, it is never about the how, but the who, if it doesn't work, then it is YOUR fault because you didn't follow the "rules".

      I'm happy you have had your self discovery and know that what works for you, is what is right for you to do and pursue in spite of any criticism to the contrary, continue doing you.

      GordonJ


      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Gordon

      This is my own personal view on the misery and suffering aspect. And I am different so I don't expect anyone else to view it this way.

      6 years ago in Vegas the little whiny human wondering why certain things where happening in my life got a response from a source other than the little whiny human.

      I'm going full into woo woo here. I can no longer just escape or cope with any type of personal misery and suffering. Every time there is a big situation cause it a large amount of misery and suffering. The little whiny human has had to learn to view it as a type of pruning that encourages growth or having a bone that healed improperly rebroken and reset to heal properly.

      So I can't really sugar coat the misery and suffering. I can feel every bit of pain and use it to go through the process so that issue stays in the past.

      How can I use the pain and misery and other types of suffering involved in what is happening to permanently make changes that result in a healthier happier me . Going forward. Using the misery I have gone through the first 44 years of my life to create a much happier life the next 40 or so which is the average lifespan of family members
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  • Profile picture of the author Just Jess
    It all boils down to the programming you choose.
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by Just Jess View Post

      It all boils down to the programming you choose.
      When you are doing the programming
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      • Profile picture of the author Just Jess
        Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

        When you are doing the programming
        I do it when nobody is looking.
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by Just Jess View Post

          I do it when nobody is looking.
          ...while they are looking them in the eyes. Pretty easy to self program, a bit more skill when using it to reprogram other people, eh?

          GordonJ
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          • Profile picture of the author Just Jess
            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            ...while they are looking them in the eyes. Pretty easy to self program, a bit more skill when using it to reprogram other people, eh?

            GordonJ
            I am innocent unless proven otherwise.
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          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            ...while they are looking them in the eyes. Pretty easy to self program, a bit more skill when using it to reprogram other people, eh?

            GordonJ
            It is probably much more profitable to just work on the programming people already have . The programming that gets people to spend money.

            Sometimes anew similar program to the ones people already have can be slipped in though . But real reprogramming requires life changing events that cause people to completely change their view of reality.

            Someone who earns 30 dollars an hour has a different reality than someone who earns 12 dollars and the person who lives of profit has a far different reality than most anyone who lives of an hour bye hour wage.
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            • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
              You are right.
              I think more like diverting a stream like beavers might do. Get the water to continue to flow but in a slightly altered direction.
              The key here would be to KNOW what the programming is, but much like an Aikido or Jiu-Jitsu person might do is use their direction and movement in synch with your goal.

              But as far as being more profitable, I think you are very right on this, just a small change in the direction of their mindset puts a lot of meat or veggies on your table.

              GordonJ

              P.S. And that might be the whole idea behind using woowoo in marketing too, maybe?

              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

              It is probably much more profitable to just work on the programming people already have . The programming that gets people to spend money.

              Sometimes anew similar program to the ones people already have can be slipped in though . But real reprogramming requires life changing events that cause people to completely change their view of reality.

              Someone who earns 30 dollars an hour has a different reality than someone who earns 12 dollars and the person who lives of profit has a far different reality than most anyone who lives of an hour bye hour wage.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Just Jess View Post

          I do it when nobody is looking.
          This is similar to my super power.

          I have the ability to turn invisible. but I can only do it when nobody is looking.
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          "Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity" Friedrich Nietzsche
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by Just Jess View Post

      It all boils down to the programming you choose.
      When you are doing the programming

      Instead of fight or killing the ego. Or falling victim to the sub conscious. Or bad habits or what ever problem is with the mind. Learn to program and train these parts of your being to support your growth and your personal evolution
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Gordon

    One of the things I have become aware of with growth or evolution or learning new skills. Is that a wide range of potentials open up that could not be imagined prior to . And there is almost a completely new self to test and find what works and does not work for.

    One trick I have learned though to save my self time is observing what does and does not work for others and being aware of problems other people have faced and what different did that worked for several others.

    One thing I am learning from the situation I am in . Is the large amount of time poor people or people in poverty spend sticking their noses in others businesses. That puts no money in anyone's pocket. And the inability of people to follow basic organizational work flow. Holy crap I was under the false belief people could understand and follow relatively simple rules.

    Unfortunately I now believe many people are just done for in the world that is coming and will need handouts in the form of basic housing basic food and basic income. In the increasingly complex world they will not be able to provide for themselves
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  • Profile picture of the author Just Jess
    I remember when the umbilical cord established a connection with my wireless mouse and after a few clicks I found where I belonged. The power of the imagination never fails me, I'm always able to pick up something from the process because I am a keen observer of the machinations of the mind.

    It all begun with the undying devotion to reach an exodus from the restless past. It was then that I knew that you have to fight for your right to party.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    There is definitely something mysterious in the programming and the beliefs people carry, none of us are free in the sense we are all carrying pieces and parts we've inherited or borrowed from others.

    I was watching a documentary about David Cameron using hypnosis on an audience and their response/reaction was compared to the 'vibes' of being at a live concert where the audience melds into a group mindset.

    Another example was of Allister Crowley who was walking down the street talking with another gentleman, and in front of them was a man with a distinct walk. Crowley mimicked the man out in front of them without the man seeing him at all... when Crowley dropped to his knees - the man walking dropped to his knees. Coincidence? or did Crowley actually hypnotize the man's mind without his knowing?

    I wasn't there - so I cannot determine if the even actually happen, but if it did - that would definitely trip the WHOA meter!

    I'm not really a fan of dark magic or hypnosis - but, it makes one wonder; if a person can cause physical movements, alter another's functions, or cause actual changes based solely upon the metaphysical properties, signal/frequency, or synergizes with another, real changes do appear in some cases.

    The person does not appear to have to 'know or approve' of these actions of a hypnotist or their ability to alter certain changes from what some have investigated. I try to apply rational thinking and I certainly am not going to join some weird cult anytime soon, but there is definitely a pattern there when larger groups religious, music, events, or even when evil gathers like rioting or war breaks out, there appears to be a group energy or synchronization that can take place causing otherwise 'neutral people' to take part in events they normally would avoid.

    So, the programming does appear to possess some strange and mystical powers.

    I find it amazing, if someone identifies as a witch, warlock, or pagan - most religious people call it evil. But if a church group has people laying hands on people to perform a 'healing' they call it good or godly.

    The actual forces appear to work for good or evil - so really these practices, like any knowledge, application, or ability to influence others, etc. - can be used for good or evil as is so with writing sales copy or reading tarot, which both concert and amplify in my opinion around people understanding the powers of influence, or the programming of how the mind works!
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by art72 View Post


      So, the programming does appear to possess some strange and mystical powers.

      The actual forces appear to work for good or evil - so really these practices, like any knowledge, application, or ability to influence others, etc. - can be used for good or evil as is so with writing sales copy or reading tarot, which both concert and amplify in my opinion around people understanding the powers of influence, or the programming of how the mind works!
      The "power" of this type of programming comes from very deeply grooved neural pathways, which are so deep, it may take a long time to overwrite them (in this computer/brain model idea of programming). It is a default setting, and only through AWARNESS first, then via controlled effort can they be altered.

      The "forces" at play, when boiled down to their essence, is simply BELIEF, be it for a placebo effect or for a deep seated need/want for it to be true. And when we speak of good or evil, don't we cross into subjective territory? For example, is it evil to take a human life?

      If you kill someone, are you evil? So we have to consider the "mass hysteria" Kay mentioned, and when it comes to Gov't too, a mass hypnosis takes place to long term indoctrination via our various schooling.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        The "power" of this

        If you kill someone, are you evil? So we have to consider the "mass hysteria" Kay mentioned, and when it comes to Gov't too, a mass hypnosis takes place to long term indoctrination via our various schooling.

        GordonJ
        In a play on the way evil is spelled. Evil is what happens when you live backwards. Live/evil . And the more someone has lived backwards the more suffering they blame on the devil. Lived/ devil.

        But I don't personally believe in an eternal hell or the human view of heaven.

        The one thing an all powerful all knowing being would not have is limits. But that being can create layers of limitations. And experience what it is like through playing the little human.

        But that is personal view so my view is I get to learn to adjust those limits to have a more enjoyable experience in the long term Ora difficult set of experiences in the short term that allows for more enjoyable experiences in the future.

        An another play on words is this is the Universe. Not the themaverse or the we-averse or the us-averse so the purpose of all of creation that you are aware of is the experience of now as one limited individual instead of being everything

        But that is my view and I have not interest in starting a religion .

        Humans are not really intelligent or we would not be destroying the only planet we have's. Ability to support human civilization. It it evil or just basic stupidity stemming from an inability to grasp the consequences of the actions on a collective scale. Willing to place all the blame on a small number of some somewhat secretive organization
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        • Profile picture of the author Skywriting
          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          Humans are not really intelligent or we would not be destroying the only planet we have's. Ability to support human civilization. It it evil or just basic stupidity stemming from an inability to grasp the consequences of the actions on a collective scale. Willing to place all the blame on a small number of some somewhat secretive organization
          Most people will clear forest land to build a house. Even beavers do it.
          And it's not because they are not bright.
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          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
            Originally Posted by Skywriting View Post

            Most people will clear forest land to build a house. Even beavers do it.
            And it's not because they are not bright.
            Beavers create a water holding capacity in the land that keeps the surrounding forests moist even if there is periods of drought. The forests allow for small fires to burn brush close to the ground and the ash provides fertilizer for the forests. Humans build expensive houses in the woods and don't allow the small fires to burn.

            Humans build big reservoirs and don't allow the small pond systems the beavers build. So the forests dry out the waste materials build up and big fires come and destroyed hundreds or thousands of homes
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            • Profile picture of the author Skywriting
              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

              Beavers create a water holding capacity in the land that keeps the surrounding forests moist even if there is periods of drought. The forests allow for small fires to burn brush close to the ground and the ash provides fertilizer for the forests. Humans build expensive houses in the woods and don't allow the small fires to burn.

              Humans build big reservoirs and don't allow the small pond systems the beavers build. So the forests dry out the waste materials build up and big fires come and destroyed hundreds or thousands of homes
              But humans don't have big flat tails or eat bark, so that explains that.
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      • Profile picture of the author art72
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        The "power" of this type of programming comes from very deeply grooved neural pathways, which are so deep, it may take a long time to overwrite them (in this computer/brain model idea of programming). It is a default setting, and only through AWARNESS first, then via controlled effort can they be altered.

        The "forces" at play, when boiled down to their essence, is simply BELIEF, be it for a placebo effect or for a deep seated need/want for it to be true. And when we speak of good or evil, don't we cross into subjective territory? For example, is it evil to take a human life?

        If you kill someone, are you evil? So we have to consider the "mass hysteria" Kay mentioned, and when it comes to Gov't too, a mass hypnosis takes place to long term indoctrination via our various schooling.

        GordonJ
        You really struck a nerve as I have questioned all these things as I know my father had to kill or be killed in Vietnam along with a few of my uncles. I haven't known my father, he wasn't too stable after returning from war.

        In a recent phone conversation (one of 2 short phone calls in 36 years) - I asked him "Do you believe in God?"

        He responded; "of course I do"

        But whether anyone else chooses to identify with God/Source is neither what I really wanted to know, nor could I bring myself to ask him more about his experiences in war.

        The ability to "empathize" for others seems common amongst the wisest of teachers and throughout the history of most subjects still respected and studied today... religion/spiritual pursuits, especially.

        It is nearly impossible to overwrite the habitual influences we inherited in our youth, from the poverty mindset to the virtues, values, principles, and interests we have allowed to be *******ized by banking terms over human traits, to missing the "seeds of wisdom" that we must sow for the next to maintain POSTERITY... I can say only this; Mental Alchemy (*Hermetics - contains the Master Key") and I cannot bring myself to initiate myself as a teacher due to the continuum of students who refute to understand (stand under) that which they "know not" - so either I suck at teaching, or the statistics have me crippled... the larger 90% will NEVER use the information as it was or would be intended....ask any WISE teacher!

        Then, look at GLOBAL ECONOMICS... they turned paper into GOLD and we fight over the paper, not wise!
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by art72 View Post

          You really struck a nerve as I have questioned all these things as I know my father had to kill or be killed in Vietnam along with a few of my uncles. I haven't known my father, he wasn't too stable after returning from war.

          In a recent phone conversation (one of 2 short phone calls in 36 years) - I asked him "Do you believe in God?"

          He responded; "of course I do"

          But whether anyone else chooses to identify with God/Source is neither what I really wanted to know, nor could I bring myself to ask him more about his experiences in war.

          The ability to "empathize" for others seems common amongst the wisest of teachers and throughout the history of most subjects still respected and studied today... religion/spiritual pursuits, especially.

          It is nearly impossible to overwrite the habitual influences we inherited in our youth, from the poverty mindset to the virtues, values, principles, and interests we have allowed to be *******ized by banking terms over human traits, to missing the "seeds of wisdom" that we must sow for the next to maintain POSTERITY... I can say only this; Mental Alchemy (*Hermetics - contains the Master Key") and I cannot bring myself to initiate myself as a teacher due to the continuum of students who refute to understand (stand under) that which they "know not" - so either I suck at teaching, or the statistics have me crippled... the larger 90% will NEVER use the information as it was or would be intended....ask any WISE teacher!

          Then, look at GLOBAL ECONOMICS... they turned paper into GOLD and we fight over the paper, not wise!
          Well, I hope you will contemplate your "words of wisdom": "nearly impossible to overwrite" and "larger 90%", which I would argue is more like 98%.

          So we would be teachers must acknowledge and accept the difficulty most have with overcoming their youthful, habitual, ritualized in many cases... indoctrinations.

          If you are an American and can finish this: "I pledge alligence to the flag of the United States...."

          And couple that with whatever a given public or parochial system wanted to teach...and we can't even recognize or believe that we have been (chose whichever):

          brainwashed, indoctrinated, hypnotized, conditioned, influenced, etc., etc.
          So we can easily understand why the vast majority will reject and often oppose any ideas which were part of those habitual influences when someone controlled your life.

          As an adult, we must teach people they CAN choose, that there is a choice to be made between accepting their indoctrination and living within it, or to begin to make decisions which we have thought about, contemplated and accepted as being our right.

          One will be very unsettled with the world as long as they hold onto their idea of trying to help the ostrich flock to get it's collective heads out of the sand. And because it is difficult to overwrite the past, we must exercise extreme caution of our expectations to have the curtain pulled back and others don't see the Wizard was just a man from Kansas.

          As for military warriors, we glorify the trained killer, we make movies about SHOOTER, or SNIPER and actors like Mark Wahlberg, Bradley Cooper and esteemed JETHRO GIBBS, played by Mark Harmon who murdered someone in an episode for vengenance, are, like the people they portray honored and esteemed.

          We are indoctrinated here is USA, that an American life is more valuable than any other life on the planet, and it is accepted and not given a second thought by most.

          And that goes full circle back to childhood beliefs too, whether or not we were taught or were browbeaten to believe in a higher power and exactly what the rules were that came with that belief.

          My advice, and knowing it may not be applicable, is... invite them into the bubble, but if they refuse, or just can't get it, then let them remain outside YOUR BUBBLE and hope they learn from looking through the window.

          GordonJ
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Would you let a family member knowingly destroy their life if you thought you could intervene, give some council, or advise against them continuing that path... or would you run away, and say screw it all, "live and let die?" - Maybe my woo is too deep, as I cannot make that decision without feeling I too am responsible if I do not oblige to my fatherly duties.
            There are more than two choices. You can't control an adult 'child' - he doesn't want advice and chances are he knows even better than you do that he's screwed up along the way. He is no longer your 'child' - he is your adult son.

            You don't write him off - you don't enable him - you just love him and let him know you are there if and when he needs you. He has to live through his own mistakes and as a parent you can only hope he comes out on the other side.

            It doesn't matter who is 'responsible' - or what happened when he was a teen. Find a way to respond to him as your adult son rather than your 'child'. Not easy, but worth it.
            Give yourself permission to drop the guilt - it is a waste of time and energy.
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            • Profile picture of the author art72
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              There are more than two choices. You can't control an adult 'child' - he doesn't want advice and chances are he knows even better than you do that he's screwed up along the way. He is no longer your 'child' - he is your adult son.

              You don't write him off - you don't enable him - you just love him and let him know you are there if and when he needs you. He has to live through his own mistakes and as a parent you can only hope he comes out on the other side.

              It doesn't matter who is 'responsible' - or what happened when he was a teen. Find a way to respond to him as your adult son rather than your 'child'. Not easy, but worth it.
              Give yourself permission to drop the guilt - it is a waste of time and energy.

              You are absolutely right, maybe my perceptive view is clouded as I do not think he learned much after he ran away, and before that he was just a typical teen with hormones raging - so I forgave him when he returned home after his 7 years of hard times on his own... he won't argue the rough times he experienced jumping off with no real world experience, but he doesn't seem to respect what others have sacrificed - he thinks the world owes him, and there must be a seed in his head that has distorted the childhood he was raised in with the life he lived after he disappeared. I know we cannot change, control, or even influence others - if they don't see, think, or like what we are selling, even if it was intended to protect or save them from future pain and suffering.

              Lastly, this entire series of events may appear as me being selfish or too controlling, and in reality I am more upset for his son being in a foster home, and the reality that our son has NEVER even taken his mother out to eat, bought flowers, or been much of a giver... that is not who "we" are as a family! - Even when we disagree, we're still family!
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            2 wrongs dont make a right as much as 2 rights dont make a wrong. BUT you get into a wrong and a right, and what are you left with?

            The truth is right and wrong are perceptions. And with perceptions its how you are perceiving something in that moment.

            Going back to the basic rule... 2 wrongs dont make a right... step back and put yourself into the perception that the actions of another is RIGHT ( because they think it is - even tho you are currently perceiving it as a wrong ). How can you align the others perceived right thinking and actions - with equal right thinking and actions ( as the other perceives it ) to get a desired result.

            Opinions are like Ashtrays - and every smoker has one. Aligning perception ( as hard as that might seem ) and throwing opinion out with the bath water is the key to opening doors.

            Your wrong and Im right NEVER ends well... make your son RIGHT... Align your desired outcome with him being RIGHT. Doesn't want to work... fine bud....

            The biggest "mistake" I see in parenting... God knows my parents made some huge mistakes..lord knows i make mistakes.. but the BIGGEST... is allowing our children to fail, like down and out fail with out a bail out fail early in life when we are there and for the most part supporting said child.

            My wife hates the whole routine... but little Micro failures now at a young age, I believe will allow my son to understand Macro failures later.

            We started homeschooling during Covid. Last semester my son failed a semester of English... ( Im the one home schooling ) Wife is so mad at me for letting him fail and having to repeat the whole semester over again... and I keep pointing out to her, It wasn't me that failed... she doesn't get it. My son gets it now... having to repeat a semester of English on top of doing the next semester... not liking it at all actually - BUT he has moved past it being my fault he failed, to him understanding it was his fault.

            Because as I understand it there is a grandchild involved... maybe the RIGHT thing to do is bypass your son, and approach the GF... have her read my eBay thread... invest the time and $40 and teach her how to do the right thing.

            See your son as right... he doesn't need to work.. but he might have to watch his child while his GF is off making an income... and maybe its THAT that will get him involved.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            low-level (*minimalist living) mindset,

            Abundance is a mindset. It really is.
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            • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              Abundance is a mindset. It really is.
              Hi Art.

              Thinking about what's going wrong can be a good thing ,, (Because it teaches you what to do) ... However ultimately it's focusing on what you want to accomplish that will make the difference. Focus on that. : )
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              • Profile picture of the author art72
                Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                Hi Art.

                Thinking about what's going wrong can be a good thing ,, (Because it teaches you what to do) ... However ultimately it's focusing on what you want to accomplish that will make the difference. Focus on that. : )
                You just confirmed what I feel like I already know, but allowed my studies to get the better of me! - It's like a photographer developing the NEGATIVES in a RED ROOM... as the images come into focus, never knowing which image was that ONE that would capture the best rendering... sometimes we get too deep in thought, and I believe; there have been innumerable brilliant minds that entered the Dark Forest - but only a few actually escape.

                Much like the Eastern philosophy with the Buddha, people enter the forest seeking to ease their suffering and to know thyself - but only a few return to society to become the enlightened ones or Bodhisattva.

                It's a fine line studying the deeper philosophies, sciences, and meaning of life (or metaphysics) and you are 100% correct - too much thinking is seldom a good thing if it distracts the focus from getting problems solved.
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            • Profile picture of the author Odahh
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              Abundance is a mindset. It really is.
              Abundance just is . People don't appreciate the abundance they already benefit from. So the whine and complain. While pissing and crap if drinking water. That would vastly improve the health and live of half the humans on this planet. Bad drinking water and respiratory illnesses from cooking fire are the leading cause of preventable death on this planet.

              Even homeless in the USA have better food available and water and health care than much of the developing world.

              Could we do better. Of course. But we need to start with acknowledging where we are doing much better and what we have the ability to do better next.

              If someone wants to sit around playing video games all day. They only need enough resources or abundance to support that lifestyle.

              With laptops and cell phones and WiFi it is pretty inexpensive to have that lifestyle. Compared to drinking in bars or any kind of drug habit. But the gamer after a certain age probably smokes weed and drink alcohol.

              Abundance is a reservoir with a hundred million gallons of drinking water in it . The mindset of people tends have them going to this reservoir wit a glass or a small bucket several times a day every day. And getting angry at those who pump water through pipes or fill thousand gallon tanker trucks of water.


              Art mentioned the10 to 15 dollar an hour many people work for. I was making that 20 year ago starting pay. 12-15 . And the medical plans where better and cheaper.

              People are content to sell hours and not willing to build pipelines or fill tanker trucks.


              That is not a wealth building view of abundance. A wealth building view would be to build a big enough roof on a house and a water catchment system that one always has as much water as they need in tanks.


              My funky view is to use excess renewable power too condense water from the surrounding air. So there is always a source of water. That technology is getting cheaper
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            • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
              Some interesting perspectives on "Abundance Mindset." I found this definition on Google:

              An abundance mindset is the idea or worldview that there are enough resources and successes for all to share. This worldview is contrasted with a scarcity mindset, or the idea that there isn't enough to go around and that each person must guard their accomplishments or resources from others (Link removed by Moderator)
              Thoughts?

              P.S.
              My own view would be something similar:

              There will always be enough opportunity -- and resources -- for everyone to be successful in Business, Relationships, and Life. Also, similar to others, I think part of it is recognizing (and being grateful/appreciate of) everything that you have ... (Rather than a Person living in "scarcity" where all they focus on is what they haven't got.)
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              • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                Some interesting perspectives on "Abundance Mindset." I found this definition on Google:


                Thoughts?

                P.S.
                My own view would be something similar:

                There will always be enough opportunity -- and resources -- for everyone to be successful in Business, Relationships, and Life. Also, similar to others, I think part of it is recognizing (and being grateful/appreciate of) everything that you have ... (Rather than a Person living in "scarcity" where all they focus on is what they haven't got.)
                My view is people with scarcity mindset can actually have quite a lot of stuff. But they go after a Lamborghini or a Bentley not because they like the car but because they are in limited supply.

                They invest for appreciation and don't do much to add value. They dream of retirement one day hoping to have enough money for the rest of their non working years.

                Abundance based people invest and work to add value and capture as much of that value as possible. Also if there is not enough of something they shirt to something there is plenty of or they increase the amount available.
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                • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                  Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                  Abundance based people invest and work to add value and capture as much of that value as possible. Also if there is not enough of something they shirt to something there is plenty of or they increase the amount available.
                  Absolutely. Well said Odahh. : ) Furthermore -- when they're successful -- they give a lot back as well.

                  2C
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                  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                    Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                    Absolutely. Well said Odahh. : ) Furthermore -- when they're successful -- they give a lot back as well.

                    2C
                    The giving starts before people show the outward signs of success. The amount given gets bigger and harder not to notice as the success grows.

                    People with a lot of wealth but who don't flaunt their wealth tend to keep their giving out of the public eye.

                    Giving does not create abundance it is an expression of abundance. Not only does one have more than enough they are comfortable enough to give that extra away without getting anything back.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post


                      People with a lot of wealth but who don't flaunt their wealth tend to keep their giving out of the public eye.

                      Giving does not create abundance it is an expression of abundance. Not only does one have more than enough they are comfortable enough to give that extra away without getting anything back.

                      Your post shows real insight.

                      The people that say "Giving creates abundance" are almost always the ones asking for the money. They mean "Giving to ME creates abundance".

                      Most of my friends have varying degrees of wealth. They don't talk about who they give money to. But I know they do contribute.

                      Whenever someone tells me about the money they contributed to a cause, I think "That's why you did it. So you could tell everyone you contributed."

                      It's weird. But my friends and I will talk about business (with a little bragging thrown in), But we never talk about how much money we have, or who we give it to. To me (and them), it's a private matter.

                      I was with a good friend of mine at a marketing event in San Francisco. There is a big homeless problem there (or at least there was). My friend handed out real money to every homeless person he walked past. We were in a group of 4 or 5, and he was the only one doing it.

                      I asked him about it later, and he wouldn't talk about it. Again, to him, it was a private matter. I do know that he brought plenty of cash, for that very purpose. I got that much out of his son.

                      If I mentioned his name, many of you would recognize it.

                      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                      Worth listening to. Thanks for posting it.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Too much naval gazing


            An abundance mindset is not achieving wealth or fame, or getting what you want. It is not ambition or recognition or what others think.



            It is being truly happy WITH what you have - who you are with - and who you ARE - instead of wishing it were something better, or newer, or fancier.


            It is a feeling of having all you need rather than living in a constant state of 'want'.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              Too much naval gazing


              An abundance mindset is not achieving wealth or fame, or getting what you want. It is not ambition or recognition or what others think.



              It is being truly happy WITH what you have - who you are with - and who you ARE - instead of wishing it were something better, or newer, or fancier.


              It is a feeling of having all you need rather than living in a constant state of 'want'.
              When I hear the words "Abundance Mindset"...here is how I take it.

              With competitors, you want everyone to do well. You aren't thinking that you want the other guy to fail. There is plenty for everyone.

              You don't concentrate on bad circumstances, except to find a way to better your circumstances. You don't feel sorry for yourself, or feel that life is unfair.

              As far as money, there is plenty for everyone. We all get the same number of hours in a day. We speak the same language, have the same technology available to us, the same access to learning, and (at least in the US) have the same tax schedule and monetary system.

              And even in the worst economy, there are very affluent people. And there are still plenty of people buying, investing, spending their money.

              To me, that's an abundance mindset. To be honest, I never looked up what most people mean when they say it.

              Anyway, it's how I think.
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            • Profile picture of the author Odahh
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              Too much naval gazing


              An abundance mindset is not achieving wealth or fame, or getting what you want. It is not ambition or recognition or what others think.



              It is being truly happy WITH what you have - who you are with - and who you ARE - instead of wishing it were something better, or newer, or fancier.


              It is a feeling of having all you need rather than living in a constant state of 'want'.
              I don't need to own the big plane to get from one side of the planet to another I just need enough to buy a plane ticket.

              If I want real authentic Indian curry and other authentic dishes. I'll fly to some parts of India.


              And I don't have to be rich or win the lottery.


              Abundance the ability to do what you want do when you want to do it.

              If everything is gone and you are restarting you get on to design a new life you want and figure out what you need to do to build it and get what you want.
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              An abundance mindset is not achieving wealth or fame, or getting what you want.
              I have a slightly different outlook on this. Abundance is not about "Want" and more about "Need". My life mantra if you will is: "I am darling and the universe supplies my needs."

              Abundance as I see it is not having to worry about the little things and having the ability at that point to then spend more time on what you might "want"

              I think we all have experienced or at the very least know people that have this great grandiose idea of obtaining success... and yet they are in positions where the power bill is late or the water bill is late, or they are late on rent or mortgage. The basic "Needs" have been set aside for the bigger and better "Want".

              And I think we all know how that plays out... The dream of want fails and they are left with the option of getting a job they hate and starting over again...and at some point they grow tired of not having what they "Want" and once again jumping on the path to "Want" and again failing... and over and over it goes.

              It never crosses what I call a dysfunctional mind that you can have what you "Need" and at the same time go after what you "want" Abundance ( as I see it ) is an all or nothing scenario. Your needs are met or they are not.

              Abundance is the foundation to bigger and better things. Abundance is eating and sleeping and having transport and all of that.. the bigger and better things is having all of those things but instead of Ramon every day, its steak. Instead of sharing a apartment to sleep its a house of your own. Instead of public transportation, its a Bike... its a car, its a Ashton martin.

              Abundance is the basic need itself... indulgence and the ability to do so... is the WANT that outwardly appears like "wealth".

              One thing that guides the many things I do... how easy does it come together. Is it easy? or is there roadblock after roadblock? ( for me ) Abundance is more often than not the path of least resistance - but again my standard of what abundance is probably far lower than most...

              A few years back I started doing CRO as a service... cold call after cold call after cold call... just beating myself up, and I threw any amount of rational thought out the door and said to the effect "I might as well be calling Germany" and literally did just that... My primary qualification to the person being on the other end being a "good match" for my service is they spoke English. And it was with this.. after W E E K S and hours and hours of calls I made a sale - I am darling and the universe supplied my needs.

              I was shooting for a WANT, and lost track of the NEED

              Abundance is simplicity... water, food, shelter... having the ability to share what you have with those that do not... KNOWING there is enough to go around... and KNOWING if there isnt enough to go around, it will be provided - I am darling and the universe supplies my needs
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            • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              Too much naval gazing

              An abundance mindset is not achieving wealth or fame, or getting what you want. It is not ambition or recognition or what others think.
              It is being truly happy WITH what you have - who you are with - and who you ARE - instead of wishing it were something better, or newer, or fancier.
              It is a feeling of having all you need rather than living in a constant state of 'want'.
              This is very important to me: being truly happy with what you have, are ....and it also is the other side of the sword of SELF improvement, a many billion dollar industry.

              Self improvement, self growth, personal development have as its building blocks, DISSATISFACTION with self.

              The marketing view from my moons is to see these as markets, and then within these to see the niches, and if wanting to profit from them, either financially or spiritually, then I need to immerse myself in the waters of understanding.

              So, we see abundance as a mindset. A thought. A belief. And many definitions, opinions and what not.

              This idea; happy or discontent is central to it. This certainly does not mean that happy people don't want to improve some of themselves, but it might seperate some segments to look at. Tons of tomes on MANIFESTING ABUNDANCE, as woowoo as it might get, and many a guru, author or marketer is cashing in, we see several books in play in this thread alone, and so many of those self improvement books were cornerstones of wealth building IM.

              But, I want to point out, maybe relevant, maybe not...an idea for your consideration.

              A market which towers over Self-Improvement, Personal Development and even IM itself...a market which we have heard of through trials and tribulations of some of us regarding our loved ones...

              This market, and again, I have my marketer goggles (blu blocker specials in honor of Joe Sugarman) on...

              And wonder how you all might view it.

              ESCAPISM as self-improvement.

              Sure, an oxymoron out of the gate.

              So, instead of investing in a business, or money making opportunity, instead of buying necessities of life, we see so many

              ESCAPING,

              And they end up buying the latest Gaming equipment, TVs, Entertainment consoles, toys, even cars, boats...all things

              TO ESCAPE the reality of their life.

              I render an opinion it is an evergreen market, niche loaded and give some thought to the opposite idea of someone WE deem, whom we regard as wasting their life and money, but rather as a niche market.

              If a guy comes into thousands of dollars unexpectedly, and I'm selling games, sure, I want him to buy from me. Do I care he doesn't have a fridge full of food?

              Do I care if he doesn't pay his rent, or pay off his debts?

              See, it is the other side of marketing. One where we see a person as an avatar, someone with a want/need maybe even a problem.

              If Self Improvement and Personal Development are Billion dollar industries, then ESCAPISM is the trillion dollar elephant in the room.

              We have a sense of reality. And this goes to the issue of how other people should act, what they should do under any given circumstance according to our rules of life, but if we take that moonshot look from far above the fray, we can see how ESCAPISM of life may often trump the sheer terror or thought of trying to IMPROVE ourself.

              Now, this is an idea, which I hotly debate with myself, and there are many gurus in the world, old and new who present the idea of NOT caring, or NOT getting into how other people should act, more of a let them do what they want...

              and take their money.


              From Zig Ziglar selling expensive China sets to an impoverished womnn to Dan Kennedy and the "Alice O'Connor" concept of laissez faire capitalism ("if I don't take their money, they will give it to someone else") we have templates of selling or giving the people what they want.

              And when someone goes off and buys toys, entertainment and ESCAPISM rather than face the realities of life, such as food, clothing, shelter.

              It might be time to understand that there are FORCES at work, greater than the ideals we may have and others ignore, putting themselves first...becasuse, they didn't ask to be born, did they?

              I'm starting to think that Self ESCAPISM may be the fastest growing market in the whole OF self...

              improvement,
              Development,
              growth,
              potential

              And those that CHOOSE to escape from reality may not be able to brought back to it without some earthquake changing landscapes, we then have a whole ton of ways to market to those who are NOT interested in SI-PD but only in escaping THEIR reality.

              If I wanted to improve their reality, mustn't I first get inside their bubble of preoccupation and see things through their eyes?

              I am of the so-called Sex, Drugs and Rock N Roll era, and surprisingly, it was such a low % of us actually were involved in all of that...and today, most drugs offer escapism.

              Put your VR headset on, get the pills, smoke and ayahuasca ready and don't worry about today, just get through it.

              GordonJ

              P.S. Mom's basement and her full fridge is all the abundance some may need today (along with a high speed Internet connection, on her dime, of course).
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            People with a lot of wealth but who don't flaunt their wealth tend to keep their giving out of the public eye.

            My Grandfather was one of the most generous people I've known in life and his theory was you give because you want to - and you do it without fanfare or taking credit


            He felt when you publicize your own 'giving' you make it about you, not about the person or cause you donated to. it's something that has stuck with me for life.
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            • Profile picture of the author Odahh
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              My Grandfather was one of the most generous people I've known in life and his theory was you give because you want to - and you do it without fanfare or taking credit


              He felt when you publicize your own 'giving' you make it about you, not about the person or cause you donated to. it's something that has stuck with me for life.
              The only people born wealthy I have run into who where good functioning people where people who where taught to use their unearned wealth to help others in some constant way.

              They also tended to have lifestyle they could maintain on their own income which was now t shabby at all and vacations where someone classy resorts and helping the poorest of the poor around the world.

              The spoils rich kick the person burning through lottery winnings or the pro athlete who will have no money two years after they can't play anymore. Are a fraction of the wealthy people in the world they are just the ones that get the attention
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              Time and time again, TODAY, in modern times, we see the teacher barely a page or two ahead of the student. I reject the idea of anyone having to be perfect or fixed, before they can share.
              It's something I've said on this forum in the past...if you are new to IM you don't need the 'top guru in the world' to help you....all you need is someone who knows more than you do.
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                It's something I've said on this forum in the past...if you are new to IM you don't need the 'top guru in the world' to help you....all you need is someone who knows more than you do.
                I might even put into play you dont even need to know someone that knows more...

                A good example of this is Mr Beast... If you watch the Joe Rogan Interview with MrBeast, there is an amount of discussion about his (Beast's ) mater mind group that had 4 or 5 people all of in the same place ( had c and 1000 days and a whole lot of hours later all of the members had 1M+ subscriptions

                There are just kick tons of small forums on any and every topic to engage in. Its really not even about going and asking or reading how you do something... share YOUR process... and people will either learn fromit, OR they will share how to maybe do things better.

                When I was transitioning from being a "Custom Web Designer" to working with Wordpress / Woocommerce I got involved in a few forums... ended up buying one ( and later sold it ) and shared content like my eBay thread. I was specifically teaching what it was I was actually learning.

                I know for ME... there is a drive to help others if you will... to share what it is I am learning, and know... This very thing is what keeps me going.. extending my knowledge on a plethora of topics.

                A good example of this..Michael Meaney comes to mind ( https://www.warriorforum.com/warrior...listeners.html )

                As of TODAY... he has 20K+ subscribers - he just documented what he was doing and how it was working out... he was without a doubt teaching what he needed to learn.

                Teaching what you need to learn is POWERFUL stuff
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              • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                It's something I've said on this forum in the past...if you are new to IM you don't need the 'top guru in the world' to help you....all you need is someone who knows more than you do.
                And you will need to say it again.
                And again.

                Maybe someone listens. If so, the WF has plenty of great How To for anyone who knows what it is they want from their IM efforts.

                Which by the way, most newbies to IM, skip over before they don't listen.

                GordonJ
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              I'm at the point in my life - I almost would trade places with you in a heartbeat - to be able to live with no money and be in a tropical paradise - sounds awesome!
              Where are you imagining? a free tropical paradise on some vague island somewhere?

              How about Florida? We all make assumptions - human nature. I'm more pragmatic perhaps - if you earn $0 for 4+ years and you have shelter and food and internet access....SOMEONE is paying for it. A significant other, friends or a family member or the govt...life ain't free.

              a person ( say a young male American) with a $500 per week job, a wife, and a couple of kids will struggle to sustain the extreme inflation, costs, and rise in gas, housing, and basic vital resources.
              That 'perception' is the basis for the demands for a 'living wage' and higher minimum wages... The solution is simple - a partner (wife) who also works.

              The idea that one person working 40 hrs per week 'should' be able to support a family is not logical. Back when that was the norm...the 40hr week was a dream.

              To properly evaluate what 'other people do' - you need to know far more about their lives than what you see on the surface. We can only 'fix' ourselves.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                That 'perception' is the basis for the demands for a 'living wage' and higher minimum wages... The solution is simple - a partner (wife) who also works.

                The idea that one person working 40 hrs per week 'should' be able to support a family is not logical. Back when that was the norm...the 40hr week was a dream.
                I agree. It's not the employer's obligation to support an employee's family.

                If you have a family, and the job doesn't pay enough to support your family...don't work there.

                And yes, the solution is for both to work.
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                "Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity" Friedrich Nietzsche
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                • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  I agree. It's not the employer's obligation to support an employee's family.
                  I understand what you are saying... but whole heartedly disagree ( to a point ) entry level jobs... not up to the employer... but a jump or 2 up from there... and I think it needs to be a consideration.

                  A few years back I had an employee... ( still have them ) could just tell they were stressed... and I would ask "is everything alright" and of course they answered "oh yeah every things fine" and over and over for weeks I kept asking. Turns out he and the wife were both working, had kids in day care... and the wifes pay was $40 less per month, than child care a net loss... the $40, the time, the gas back and forth... basically should have stayed home... but wanted to be productive - I get it. AND the husband was thinking of quiting to get a night job, to be home with the kids during the day.

                  So a day later, I had a "meeting". Asked how many people have kids in day care... 12 kids in total. A bit of office juggling and 2 full time and 1 part time employee later... No one in my office has a day care bill anymore - nor do any of the families have to go home and stress over homework... its done right after school.

                  I believe its my responsibility... MY job, to ensure my employees head is in the game on MY time... and its stress' like this, that ultimately costs me money.

                  And it doesnt stop there.... GOOD help is hard to find... always has been - employee shortage or not. I will in a heart beat fire 40 to find 1 keeper - and not think a second about it... you fit or you dont, and if you dont BYE BYE.

                  The money I spent on 2 1/2 employees... more than made up for itself in overall production. HAPPY employees are loyal and productive employees plain and simple.
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                • Profile picture of the author DABK
                  Once upon a time, in the real estate appraisal business, we got very busy and all my appraisers were on edge, some wanted more money, some just complained because my setup interfered with them appraising. My set up was the same as that of the people that trained me or the ones I knew.



                  When in the office, appraisers answered the phone.


                  I made the decision to hire someone whose main job was to answer the phone.


                  Two good things (for me) came out of that: my appraisers stopped complaining and a few of them did more appraisals each month (which meant they made more money and I made more money).


                  In addition, I raised my prices across the board (basic appraisal went from $250 to $350). Because I had someone who answered live while my competitors had an answering machine that said (Leave a message and someone will call you back in 24 to 48 hours), I did not lose jobs, on the contrary, I got more clients and, therefore, more jobs. I hired more appraiser. And, of course, made more than I used to.


                  My point, it is not my duty to make sure my appraises made the money they wanted just so they made that money. But it was my duty to myself to make sure they did so that they could make me more money. And that did, in my case, mean making sure my appraisers made what they wanted/needed.






                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  I agree. It's not the employer's obligation to support an employee's family.

                  If you have a family, and the job doesn't pay enough to support your family...don't work there.

                  And yes, the solution is for both to work.
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              After reading the posts from over the weekend... I wasnt sure if I should be laughing or crying.

              And I am not saying this to be mean... but both by choice ( meta speaking ) but as it appears on the outside 1 by choice and the other by circumstance has the most precious gifts of all and no clue.

              TIME

              So pre occupied with "finding yourself" and solutions to your shortcomings... that I dont think you understand the all the searching is 9/10's of your problem.

              DOING

              Action is the answer... and learning to repeat an action over and over.

              Literally all the time in the world, and STILL at the starting line. You cant win if you dont play... reading the rules gets you no where... Play the game and read the rules as you need them.

              The very topic of the circumstances that you guys are in... How to make money while home incarcerated... or how to live in poverty in paradise. The topic demographics are actually pretty mind blowing... and one might argue very underserved.

              I can say it over and over till I am blue in the face.. "Success" comes from self - knowledge and experience.

              please STOP wasting TIME, its so freaking precious.
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              Going with the theme of theory and formulas being pretty much universal... this video has an EXCELENT message.

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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              Loved the artist video above...He mentioned a creek behind that work shed - and you could see the trees moving in the breeze - how he must enjoy working there. "It's not all about the money...."
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            • Profile picture of the author savidge4
              another great video - great message - life story

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              • Profile picture of the author art72
                Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                another great video - great message - life story

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbbOpm1ZeHY
                Another compelling story of personal achievement and the pursuit of "doing what one loves" with the confidence to know; the universe must obey... I still lack that ideology, despite having a HUGE belief system within.

                And... as far as prior mentions of the reliance I placed upon others in the past - such as an employer or a contractor - as opposed to having full-controls over the outcome, I have unfinished writings that center upon that very core - to control our assets is neither common, nor easy in a world heavily dependent upon others... for few (*if any) are really independent at all, that is a challenge to rise above and overcome, for sure...

                And I haven't heard anybody use the word; "wicked" the way Savidge did - since I was kid in New England!
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                • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                  Originally Posted by art72 View Post

                  Another compelling story of personal achievement and the pursuit of "doing what one loves" with the confidence to know; the universe must obey... I still lack that ideology, despite having a HUGE belief system within.

                  And I haven't heard anybody use the word; "wicked" the way Savidge did - since I was kid in New England!
                  I see someone building skills in something starting with what they had and using what was basically trash. While over the period of many years. Adding new equipment and getting skilled with each new piece of equipment. Then eventually have the skills to make stuff in quality and quantity that could earn a living better than his corporate income. As his corporate job went away
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                  • Profile picture of the author art72
                    Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                    I see someone building skills in something starting with what they had and using what was basically trash. While over the period of many years. Adding new equipment and getting skilled with each new piece of equipment. Then eventually have the skills to make stuff in quality and quantity that could earn a living better than his corporate income. As his corporate job went away
                    I saw that too. In reality, he was burnout from his corporate job, the high cost of daycare (*which I agree almost killed me back in the day) and in reverse, I was burned out from repairing everyone else's homes and always feeling like a 30-year-morgage wasn't a valid option for a person like myself who knows how to build an entire house. Granted, there are a few phases (i.e., pouring the slab, flying trusses, and maybe block work that requires a crew) that would be challenging for one person to construct... it wouldn't be logical to attempt it, really.

                    I wonder, what is right in front of me that I am refusing to see? As Savidge stated, I have enough items to start the eBay gig. I let my mind dismiss starting - as I know, I need "X" to sustain and "Y" to knock down my debts since January... that cripples me... worry, stress, and just procrastination alone, is the core problem.

                    I know it... Savidge, Kay, Gordon, Claude, DABK, and you and I both know - if we really wanted different results, we would change course and not keep repeating the same events "expecting" different results, like Einstein defined; "Insanity". - I don't think we are all crazy - like straight-jacket, in need of lithium crazy - but there is a mental disorder we humans definitely subscribe ourselves to that would drive the best psychoanalyst to the nuthouse!
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                    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

                      I saw that too. In reality, he was burnout from his corporate job, the high cost of daycare (*which I agree almost killed me back in the day) and in reverse,



                      I know it... Savidge, Kay, Gordon, Claude, DABK, and you and I both know - if we really wanted different results, we would change course and not keep repeating the same events "expecting" different results, like Einstein defined; "Insanity". - I don't think we are all crazy - like straight-jacket, in need of lithium crazy - but there is a mental disorder we humans definitely subscribe ourselves to that would drive the best psychoanalyst to the nuthouse!
                      I am not repeating the same things. I am moving around trying different things living in different places experiencing different ways to live. Even having 0 personal income. I am able to move around the country and many times just exchange a bit of physical work for basic ecomidations and food.

                      The hardest part was being stuck with my brother during Covid lockdowns and weighting for the time to start moving around again. That started December 1last year .

                      At this point I really don't like humidity. I have arthritis. And I really prefer desert heat at this point. So all the dreams about living by the beach in tropical countries out the window. Probably just but a big chunk of land in Arizona and build a homestead

                      Right now I do have to start finding some legal ways to get money in my pocket I have run out of the stuff I could pull off without income. The clock it ticking.

                      Living this life and moving around I understand the basic things I need and the amount of shelter that suits my needs. I don't care about the investment potential of a house. I know the stress of not having shelter. And the indignity that goes along with it.
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                      • Profile picture of the author savidge4

                        defining Abundance...

                        What I found interesting... how this story applies to many here in this thread... You can continue the life that we lead... or we can pick up and leave everything behind and start over - THE SHIFT

                        The more you dwell on the "Past"; I should have done this or that... I messed this up etc etc, the deeper the hole becomes... the more impoverished you become... the greater the leap APPEARS to be.

                        But like I said before... the past is just that, the past - a point of reflection... a point of contrast. The leap is no more difficult TODAY as it was yesterday or last year.

                        What can you do TODAY, to make TOMORROW better? The "Past" is in no way a part of that equation... other than seeing through contrast the actions today are not the repeated actions of yesterday that didnt make TODAY better.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                          Richest Man in the World - YouTube

                          defining Abundance...

                          What I found interesting... how this story applies to many here in this thread... You can continue the life that we lead... or we can pick up and leave everything behind and start over - THE SHIFT

                          The more you dwell on the "Past"; I should have done this or that... I messed this up etc etc, the deeper the hole becomes... the more impoverished you become... the greater the leap APPEARS to be.

                          But like I said before... the past is just that, the past - a point of reflection... a point of contrast. The leap is no more difficult TODAY as it was yesterday or last year.

                          What can you do TODAY, to make TOMORROW better? The "Past" is in no way a part of that equation... other than seeing through contrast the actions today are not the repeated actions of yesterday that didnt make TODAY better.
                          It depends what someone wants abundance in. Humans are masters at creating limits and inventing lack.

                          To those who have more will be given.