Is the long way the shortcut?

2 years ago

Originally Posted by Artkantos

In my first years I used to look always for the better way of doing something and still, to this day, I caught myself going around problems looking for an easier way while what have always worked for me is just do the work

it's just me, or the long way is always the shortcut?

Personally, whenever I'm learning something new, my modus operandi is to first become brilliant at the basics.

Then I look for newer, quicker, or more creative ways to get the same or better results.

And If someone comes along who knows a better way of getting similar results, then I'm always willing to shorten my learning curve by paying attention to them.
In which case the long way of trial and error is just the long way, and the shortcut becomes the better way.

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Artkantos 2 years ago

I guess is a balance, sometimes a bit of R&D can help you improve your processes and results a lot and learning from others can shorten your learning curve, so the investment of time it's very worth it...But other times is just a distraction and a waste of time; it's all part of the process
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Mark Singletary

2 years ago

One of the things I've been guilty of is knowing what the long/right way was but spending all my time looking for the shortcut/easy answer/quick money/etc. In a case like that, you never really find the shortcut so you not only lose the time you spent searching for the easy way, but you lose the time you could have already started grinding it out. You'd be much further along just by starting the grind on day one.

On the other hand, if you luck up and actually find the shortcut, the time spent searching for it may be worthwhile.

In many situations, I've found your title is indeed true.

Gotta do the work!

Mark

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savidge4

2 years ago

The shortcuts come from having done it... from experience. I dont think you can have one ( the shortcut ) without the other ( experience ).

Almost a which comes first the chicken or the egg scenario.

I think the only way the pattern could be broken, would be consulting someone with the experience that may already know the shortcut.

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Artkantos

2 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

The shortcuts come from having done it... from experience. I dont think you can have one ( the shortcut ) without the other ( experience ).

Almost a which comes first the chicken or the egg scenario.

I think the only way the pattern could be broken, would be consulting someone with the experience that may already know the shortcut.

100% but even when choosing someone to help you through consulting you can end with the same situation! You need some experience to know who to hire to enhance your results and who to avoid if you don't want to lose money and time...and faith

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spartan14

2 years ago

Well i had this problem as i was thinking my way of succes will be more shorter but a lot of time pass until i start to have some succes
I think the long way its part of the process

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Claude Whitacre

2 years ago

Originally Posted by Artkantos

In my first years I used to look always for the better way of doing something and still, to this day, I caught myself going around problems looking for an easier way while what have always worked for me is just do the work

it's just me, or the long way is always the shortcut?

The long way may not be the shortcut.

But just plowing through a problem, without looking for a shortcut, pays off in multiple ways.

It gives you a deeper knowledge, and understanding that you would never get by just doing "paint by number".

There is a vast difference between doing a shortcut after you have learned the long way, and then found a shortcut.....than just knowing the shortcut.

My guess is that many of the people in marketing (Assuming that's why you are here) only try the shortcuts....one after another. And one reason they never succeed is that they don't ever grasp why something isn't working...or why it's working. And that insight is invaluable.

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tagiscom

2 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

The long way may not be the shortcut.

But just plowing through a problem, without looking for a shortcut, pays off in multiple ways.

It gives you a deeper knowledge, and understanding that you would never get by just doing "paint by number".

There is a vast difference between doing a shortcut after you have learned the long way, and then found a shortcut.....than just knowing the shortcut.

My guess is that many of the people in marketing (Assuming that's why you are here) only try the shortcuts....one after another. And one reason they never succeed is that they don't ever grasp why something isn't working...or why it's working. And that insight is invaluable.

Dammit l was going to say that, but agreed take a shortcut and even if successful you are sure to fail since there is no grounding, or in time you will try the things you haven't tried believing that they will be better.

After watching the modern take on The Invisible Man, and the genius who could go from A -C, l tried that and ended up putting in a lot of effort into something that didn't work to save time.

But the thing about going long, is you know what doesn't work or what your parameters are so you can think it through and not waste huge amounts of time building it.

So the long way is the shortcut but only when you have sufficient knowledge to be able to confidently take a risk.

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Princess Balestra

2 years ago

There are shortcuts you figured out for your achtschwl self from hexpeerience -- like tyin' shoelaces, walkin' in a straight line, an' endeavorin naht to be abominable.

Then there are the shortcuts you would trooly want your brain to have zappoed at birth.

For Moi, that is cookin'.

I can primp an' finesse alla them courgette protuberances zackly as the rhessupy books say ... an' then invite upon the planet a monstrosity so inedible even the Gahds would puke gazin' down 'pon it.

"All you gotta do is chop chicken & boil egg -- and Voila!"

So sumthin' always to considah is how you may help anywan doin' stuff THE LONG WAY.

They will be 'speshly intrested in your seecrits -- an' if'n you squirt 'em all around, them seecrits gonna transform into meaningful fyootyoores for evrywan lissnin'.

ZOOS maya known all kindsa stuff, sittin' up there on his Olympian plinth of deity perfection, but what makes mosta us who we are is the interplay between knowledge we gaht an' knowledge we need.

We are naht complete.

An' ... Stoopid Us ... as we evolve usselves, we discovah more stuff we don't know nuthin' about!

Howevah, if'n there is one seecrit universally adopted by the forces of good & evil, it is this:

SPOONFEED YR BABIES.

Yanno, bcs them dooey-eyed lumpsa CUTESY gaht all kindsa potential demandin' all kindsa succor.

Shortest cut evah is feedin' 'em what they need.

I believe there is a certain fascination rn with a certain kinda yogah mat.

But who cares 'bout that if'n you jus' 3 months old an' cain't even shit straight yet?

(It is only hoomanity herself prevents bettin' organizations from arrangin' Baby Poop Sweepstakes, tellya.)

Anyways, wan thing always to considah is how the end point of anythin' morphs as the journey progresses.

I learned that walkin' into a wall, btw.

Main thing is, your braino will always be seekin' to speed stuff up an' finesse alla your available talents.

An' bcs it ain't no Marvel Cahmics Eternity character, you might wanna wish to think of alla that stuff your skull protects as a goober babe, jus' waitin' for input before it outputs the frick all ovah the furnichure.

That is why direct questions so often reveal nuthin' an' directed questions hit on purposefully exotic ansas.

Snort & export.

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ernestrategos

2 years ago

I believe that "shortcuts" can only appear if someone has gone through solving a problem in its entirety.

As an example of this, if you don't know how to do a certain task, but you begin a research and implementation process, it's possible you'll make many mistakes.
In retrospect, you'll know what elements to avoid as you gain deeper knowledge.

Then, when you teach, you can show only what works, so the people you serve can save some time (a "shortcut") But someone somewhere has to do all of the work.

I also think these "shortcuts" can be a synonym for having experience. As we know, we don't have enough life to make all the mistakes, which is why it's important to follow people with credibility, so we can reap the benefits faster.

As long as the expert is knowledgeable or more knowledgeable, you can stand on the shoulders of giants.

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Artkantos

2 years ago

So consensus is:

1-Experience is required to identify the shortcuts as such (you can be extremely lucky by funding one at the beginning, but that it's not sustainable and won't last in the mid and long term)
2-You can shortcut your learning process by learning from people who "have been there and done that", but, be careful with your due diligence, there are a lot of smoke-sellers out there
3-If you know something works, even if it may be a quicker or better way, just do it because the long way tends to be the shortcut

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Odahh

2 years ago

Originally Posted by Artkantos

So consensus is:

1-Experience is required to identify the shortcuts as such (you can be extremely lucky by funding one at the beginning, but that it's not sustainable and won't last in the mid and long term)
2-You can shortcut your learning process by learning from people who "have been there and done that", but, be careful with your due diligence, there are a lot of smoke-sellers out there
3-If you know something works, even if it may be a quicker or better way, just do it because the long way tends to be the shortcut

If we are talking about the learning process and skill building specifically. Adequate amounts of sleep light weight training regular cardio workouts. And a diet free of food hangovers and brain fog.

Then there is probably research on anything you want to learn. That maps out the best way to learn the skill. But with that you need to get as close to the research as possible. Not a marketer sighting research to promote their system or product.

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Odahh

2 years ago

Originally Posted by Artkantos

Definitely, plus I noticed that each person is a world, that's why there is no magic recipe, so you have to go building your own by filtering your sources and learning from them and constant test, trial and error

Well we all have a short list of things we can get really good at and a long list we will never get above bad at.

The more natural potential you have the less trial and error the more practice practice practice works.

Looking for a shortcut is probably the resut of initially believing your bad at something without ever having tried doing it and seem just how bad. But weather there is potential to learn and get better.

I probably have to explain it better but this is the best I can do for now

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savidge4

2 years ago

Originally Posted by Artkantos

2-You can shortcut your learning process by learning from people who "have been there and done that", but, be careful with your due diligence, there are a lot of smoke-sellers out there

I am different than most here, I have employees. I go above and beyond to surround myself with people that tend to be smarter than myself - or maybe more focused on a single skill.

I have programmers that do just that - program. I have graphic artist that do just that - graphic arts. I have people and a wife that just do online product sales ( eBay, Amazon, Etsy, Facebook / Instagram )

I personally can step into any and every position, might not be as proficient, but a knowledge base is a call away - and conversely for my employees I am a call away.

But getting past my specific set of circumstances the idea of surrounding yourself with like minded people that maybe are not "Paid" for their knowledge, but is more like a think tank of knowledge?

Thats kind of the idea behind an online platform such as WF no? Having the ability to communicate with people that just might know more than you do. And, for sure there are some damn talented and intelligent people lurking around.

You trade stocks no? Do you have a bunch of fellow stock traders you can call and all meet for coffee?

I think that kind of interaction is something to strive for. Its a healthy release to "talk shop" with fellow traders. Its cool to call a fellow trader and say "hey, how do you do this or that?"

I do my best to have relationships with fellow local agency owners

By my very nature I am a community builder of sorts. I focus far more on Company Culture, than I do the bottom dollar... Create a happy work environment - and the dollars follow.

Getting a bit metaphysical here... if you feel you have been taken... might want to ask what you were giving?

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Artkantos

2 years ago

100% You can and should learn also from your peers, running mates etcetera. In crypto the communities are of key importance because you can't be up to date to everything happening! But again, the right community, the right people. I think the ability and the experience to choose the people you want to surround yourself with and the sources you are gonna use is key

Originally Posted by Odahh

If we are talking about the learning process and skill building specifically. Adequate amounts of sleep light weight training regular cardio workouts. And a diet free of food hangovers and brain fog.

Then there is probably research on anything you want to learn. That maps out the best way to learn the skill. But with that you need to get as close to the research as possible. Not a marketer sighting research to promote their system or product.

Definitely, plus I noticed that each person is a world, that's why there is no magic recipe, so you have to go building your own by filtering your sources and learning from them and constant test, trial and error

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Troy Arrandale

2 years ago

Originally Posted by Artkantos

So consensus is:

2-You can shortcut your learning process by learning from people who "have been there and done that", but, be careful with your due diligence, there are a lot of smoke-sellers out there

I learned how to do due diligence by finally realizing that the people who are teaching their methods or shortcuts that I'm learning from, must ALSO be keeping on top of the ever changing internet, keep researching their "proven" shortcuts and make sure they learn and adapt to newer shortcuts or methods and keep me informed of them. And be constantly updating their training materials.

Luckily I've found a couple who do do that.

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danyalmotivation

2 years ago

There is a proverb that will answer your question: "Slow and steady wins the race."

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Artkantos 2 years ago

Yeah, the story of the tortoise and the hare, right? Nature is wise! I saw once a real life example of this, I don't know if it was a coincidence but gee, what's impressive
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Charlie Ashton

2 years ago

There are shortcuts, sometimes you have to cut to the chase.

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Artkantos 2 years ago

Originally Posted by Charlie Ashton

There are shortcuts, sometimes you have to cut to the chase.

I know, but sometimes the shortcut it's to just start doing, for example, I bought a course on how to optimize Twitter, I could have started on day 1 to implement but I convince myself that would be better to watch the whole thing so I can have a general idea on how would the best way to do it, so I avoid dumb mistakes, I have the perfect plan, etcetera, etcetera... TLR I procrastinated the whole thing 2 months!

btw, could you give examples from your own personal experience?
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Charlie Ashton

2 years ago

An example is using cosmic mind programming to improve myself until problems of the past remained in the past. For the life of me I couldn't pen down a highly converting sales letter so I used the programming to pinpoint what the issue was and patch it.

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Artkantos

2 years ago

Yeah, we have talked a lot about technical stuff, but at the end of the day if you're mind or you as a person is not there...There's nothing to do, doesn't matter how much you know. In my case, when I had 20 years old I found Awaken The Giant Within; that was a before and after, I don't recognize my prior self, but I'm pretty sure that without that change in my way of thinking and understanding life, I would have had a tough, unsuccessful and unhappy time.

It's interesting what you mention, where can I learn more about it? ^^

Originally Posted by Charlie Ashton

An example is using cosmic mind programming to improve myself until problems of the past remained in the past. For the life of me I couldn't pen down a highly converting sales letter so I used the programming to pinpoint what the issue was and patch it.

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blairquane

2 years ago

Originally Posted by Artkantos

In my first years I used to look always for the better way of doing something and still, to this day, I caught myself going around problems looking for an easier way while what have always worked for me is just do the work

it's just me, or the long way is always the shortcut?

Most of the time, doing the work will get you there. Why, because others have given up, settling for the shortcut. Perseverance is the key and then once you have a working situation, fine tuning can be done

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Kay King

2 years ago

When I do something for the first time - I do it step by step and I follow EVERY step. The more I do that task, the more 'shortcuts' I find. You won't have the same experience reading about what to do or even in thinking through the process....you need to DO it to understand how the parts make the whole...or the steps arrive at the destination.

My d-in-law found some cool hanging rack/shelf systems to use in a large storage room - and she and I put them together. The first unit took 25 minutes to assemble following the step by step directions...the second took 15 minutes and the last two took 10 min each.

When you fully understand a process or system you will find ways to cut out superfluous tasks or combine tasks to CREATE shortcuts to use going forward.

Common sense - not brain surgery

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GordonJ

2 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

When I do something for the first time - I do it step by step and I follow EVERY step. The more I do that task, the more 'shortcuts' I find. You won't have the same experience reading about what to do or even in thinking through the process....you need to DO it to understand how the parts make the whole...or the steps arrive at the destination.
My d-in-law found some cool hanging rack/shelf systems to use in a large storage room - and she and I put them together. The first unit took 25 minutes to assemble following the step by step directions...the second took 15 minutes and the last two took 10 min each.
When you fully understand a process or system you will find ways to cut out superfluous tasks or combine tasks to CREATE shortcuts to use going forward.
Common sense - not brain surgery

This is the shortcut, IF I were to buy the same rack/shelf system, I would want YOU to help me assemble it.

So, in the case of Internet Marketing, or anything for that matter, having a 'mentor' or guide who has taken the long route and is willing to help, wouldn't that be the shortest route to take?

If you were assisting in putting the shelf together, you would know which steps I could eliminate or combine, so a done with you approach might be a shortcut too.

I find there are very few things when it comes to Marketing or Online Selling, which now require the 25 minute version in your example, when the 10 min version is more than likely available and at a price which makes it a common sense decision to spend the money to save the time.

Shortcuts are worn down paths, not through the briar patch, even if it appears to be the shorter route to take.

GordonJ

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art72

2 years ago

The shortcut is leveraging all available people, places, and things... be a mentor, a worker, or a lover... then, it moves to the knowledge, tools, and systems - maintained and controlled by the people (*to some degree) and compounded based on the demand, need, or necessity.

So a shortcut to me would be having the knowledge to hire people smarter than you to "do the work" -or- forget about shortcuts and 'do the work" yourself, which can create a ceiling as one only has a certain amount of time to complete tasks, and to do so single-handedly - which does have certain limitations.

The same can be said for existing platforms and systems, with say 'automating a process" -or- being able to 'do the work 1X and get paid over-and-over again' - such as writers, musicians, artists, etc...

Otherwise, I believe shortcuts are an oxy-moron. Most take the long road in the end... the slow and steady crawl often reveals 'an easier way to do the work'.

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Artkantos

2 years ago

I think that there is more or less of a consensus that the only real "shortcut" is to cut the learning process is by learning from people that is where you wanna be like a mentor or from a community.

Sounds easy, but the difficult part is in the filtering...And I'm not talking about if someone is legit or not but if someone is adequate for you in that stage of your process

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savidge4

2 years ago

Originally Posted by Artkantos

Sounds easy, but the difficult part is in the filtering...And I'm not talking about if someone is legit or not but if someone is adequate for you in that stage of your process

I dont see this as being a problem... how many times would you take some ones advice it if failed every time? I would hope not to many times...

Just reading the WF... you can tell just by reading someones posts a time or two, if they are worth listening to.

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Artkantos

2 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

I dont see this as being a problem... how many times would you take some ones advice it if failed every time? I would hope not to many times...

Just reading the WF... you can tell just by reading someones posts a time or two, if they are worth listening to.

That's for sure, but even if it's good advice from an excellent source, you still need to value if it's suitable for your current stage, for example: you're on your way to start making nice money online with affiliate marketing, but you talk with your friend that is killing it launching his own product and he can give you the best advice in the world on how he is making it, so you follow his path blinded by his success... however your circumstances and strengths are not the same and after 6 months of giving it a good try you don't feel that's the right path for you...No bueno

Now writing this you could tell me that that's definitely terrible advice from your friend haha but it could have been the opposite and thanks to his advice my online business explodes, then it's an amazing advice! Therefore it all depends on your discernment to decide what to do with the advices you're receiving

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savidge4

2 years ago

Originally Posted by Artkantos

you're on your way to start making nice money online with affiliate marketing, but you talk with your friend that is killing it launching his own product and he can give you the best advice in the world on how he is making it, so you follow his path blinded by his success...

Selling your product, and selling someone elses is pretty much one in the same - with some differences.

I think so many people are caught on an absolute path that they are not seeing what can be tweeked with an amount of advice to make what you are doing better.

Yes I think that on some level it is human instinct to drop what you are doing, and the grass is greener on the other side and jump ship and then fail - hence where the phrase "the grass is always greener on the other side" comes from.

The missed point is looking at form and function. The FORM may be different but in the end the FUNCTION is exactly the same.

Its learning the function - the function of success selling an affiliate product or your own product. The form itself doesnt matter - what you are selling.

In your example...your past the point of drowning and treading water... you are making headway towards success, and your buddy says "hey make your own product and sell it" and I have this conversation here time and again make your own what? with what experience? You cant pull a product out of your tail end with no experience or knowledge.

Look at what I share on the WF... I know function... i could sell anything... but my experience and knowledge is with physical product. My experience is building localized business' using online platforms like websites, and social. and again look at what I share here... i stay in my box. Sure I may know a lot, but i know when I dont know - or know just enough to be dangerous.

Im not the best copywriter in the world... I dont have to be, I sell products. Look a the copywriting forum..i poke in from time to time but i am not a constant contributor... i READ far more that I write. Look at the Social Media Forum... I know enough to be dangerous... and a kick ton about using those platforms for Local reach... but that is not what is discussed - I may read a lot of it, but hardly ever post.

I have forgotten more than most people know about SEO - and I like to think I know a lot...but for years now I have focused on Local search only and again not a topic that comes up often ( and i might add, not a topic that comes up often enough ).

Maybe its being self aware... know where you are at, what your strengths are, and what your weakness are... Ill take advice from anywhere I can get it...its just learning to apply whats being shared with what you are currently doing... because chances are good what you are doing NOW, there is an amount of knowledge and experience vs the other side of the street where the grass appears greener.

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tagiscom

2 years ago

Originally Posted by Artkantos

I think that there is more or less of a consensus that the only real "shortcut" is to cut the learning process is by learning from people that is where you wanna be like a mentor or from a community.

Sounds easy, but the difficult part is in the filtering...And I'm not talking about if someone is legit or not but if someone is adequate for you in that stage of your process

There is such a thing as an overnight success, but it takes a hell of a lot of hard work!

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Charlie Ashton

2 years ago

Yeah you might keep banging your head against a brick wall until you bleed dry having realized that's too late to be programmed because there is no brain left.

I live in a cosmic "super consciousness matrix" and thankfully, my brain is intact.