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Persistence vs. Speed. Why so many give up.

by GordonJ
40 replies
The number one reason why new Entrepreneurs give up is...they don't make money fast enough.

Persistence is great. A necessity for business success, I can't or won't argue that point. If you are not prepared to persist, rethink the idea.

BUT, and this has been my bogaboo with Warriors for a couple of decades; and there are differing opinions, please share if so.

I see and think there isn't enough time and thought spent in CHOOSING the path, and getting to What is wanted and Why? Or the INTENT.

And there are tons of Warriors who dove in and then come back in 5, 7 years starting over.

I don't think it takes, 7, 8 or 9 years to learn what you need to do, and execute IF, you begin with a solid well thought out plan and persist with that.

Four years is plenty of time, and 2 years if working full time on your business, and after that one should be on their way.

A couple of observations; first most OVER estimate the time they have to work on a side hustle or part-time biz...and second; most are UNDER funded to begin with.

Now, of course, it is fun to read about all those multimillionaire IM gurus who get featured on the latest must have affiliate thing, for 1200 to 2200 dollars...but the phrase:

If I did it, so can you. Is a very false premise.

May be the biggest lie in IM. Just follow the plan, blueprint, do what I did, get what I got routine.

If so, why wouldn't we just get a WSO, follow it, and get to greener pastures just like they did? /

It appears too many folks just don't know what they want, or why they want it...and then add unwilling to do or learn the things needed to take them to their goal.

If you financial goal is 10k dollars a month with your IM, it shouldn't take you a decade to get there.

Go back 10 years here, to 2012, and see Warriors with financial goals still striving, still persisting...and look at Tik-Tok, a relatively new thing, and see the many millionaires who got there doing very silly stuff.

Now, of course, ACTION, or movement in the direction of a goal is needed, a MUST, but there isn't any reason to zig zag for years trying to hit a bee with a bb gun from 20 yards.

The bee is the ever changing goal, the shiny object, the lack of persistence...and a lot of that comes from the set up, or start.

An honest self appraisal of skills, knowledge, attitude and aptitude.

Not nearly enough time spent on that. THEN, a goal, and a plan, and analytics, knowing how much progress is being made.

And if the goal is reached in 2 or 3 years, the MAINTAIN plan, how to keep it going and growing with less and less effort and attention, more of an automated process.

I prefer SPEED, along with persistence.

Do something small, get some early success, get a profit in 30 days, grow and build out, but if it is a year in and little to know profits, maybe time to see exactly what you are persisting for??

Your opinions?

GordonJ
#give #persistence #speed
  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Many of us call ourselves persistent when we are not. We may persist in trying something else every week, but that isn't persistence, it's quitting and starting over....every week.

    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    I don't think it takes, 7, 8 or 9 years to learn what you need to do, and execute IF, you begin with a solid well thought out plan and persist with that.
    GordonJ
    I think many of us start with what we think is a plan. But a plan from a rank beginner isn't a plan, it's a fantasy. Only after you have tried and failed several times does a workable plan start to formulate.

    And plans change along the journey, because the journey changes you.


    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post


    If so, why wouldn't we just get a WSO, follow it, and get to greener pastures just like they did?
    I think the premise is faulty. I think many WSOs, or courses, give good actionable information. The problem is, every greener pasture still involves work. Once it dawns on you that you still have to learn and implement, it turns into the same thing, work.

    Anyway, it's a theory.
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      Many


      I think many of us start with what we think is a plan. But a plan from a rank beginner isn't a plan, it's a fantasy. Only after you have tried and failed several times does a workable plan start to formulate.


      Anyway, it's a theory.
      The rank beginner. Who has never done anything to earn money but work a job. And only has the skill sets to get a low paying job. And no one around them being entrepreneurs. Not even the businesses they work for do they deal with the entrepreneur who started it.

      They are getting their ideas of what an entrepreneur is from myths movies and marketing.
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      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

        The rank beginner. Who has never done anything to earn money but work a job. And only has the skill sets to get a low paying job. And no one around them being entrepreneurs. Not even the businesses they work for do they deal with the entrepreneur who started it.

        They are getting their ideas of what an entrepreneur is from myths movies and marketing.
        We get a lot of rank beginners here at WF. And they are as you say, for a large % perhaps...worker bees who don't know about Entrepreneurs or what they do.

        But here, it is a quick lesson, one of the first things they may encounter, the person who takes the risk, even a time/personal one, setting money aside for now, is the one who gets the reward.

        I can't think of a myth or a movie that paints a negative picture of an Entrepreneur, and in movies like FOUNDER with Mikey Keaton as Ray Kroc, was a pretty good telling of what he had to do.

        I will agree that MARKETERS, (those *******s), will use every color on their palettes, to paint a rosy picture of Entrepreneurs, or what they look like.

        Boats, expensive cars, bikini clad girls by the pool, isn't that what Entrepreneurship is?

        Ask your favorite IM guru, NO risk in trying their program, after all you have a one year money back guarantee, so go ahead and buy NOW.

        So, sure, we marketers play our part, and beating my dead horse into glue fumes; the ASSESSMENT and PLANNING STAGE, or Square ONE...can give even old Elwhim Q. Suggins from the second holler to the right, who just fell off his turnip truck and found the WF, even ol E.Q. S. can at least sell us a report on growing turnips, eh?

        GordonJ
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      Many of us call ourselves persistent when we are not. We may persist in trying something else every week, but that isn't persistence, it's quitting and starting over....every week.

      I think many of us start with what we think is a plan. But a plan from a rank beginner isn't a plan, it's a fantasy. Only after you have tried and failed several times does a workable plan start to formulate.

      And plans change along the journey, because the journey changes you.
      We've seen plenty of those first types, who last, maybe, a few months on one thing, then jump...and 7 years later they post at WF, "I have persisted for 7 years in IM, and still, I make no money". Exactly as you describe.

      A beginner's plan is a fantasy, mainly due to COPYWRITERS and Marketers who shill, yell, manipulate, tell, and convince them, "Just follow MY plan, easy peasy limey squeezy".

      But take the franchise model, where it is about a TESTED AND PROVEN plan, including the marketing, and there are tens of thousands of successful franchise owners. It is basically what they pay for, A PLAN to profits.

      The online equivalent, MAY be, although plenty of argument against too...it could be one of the step by step WSO's found here or one of thousands of affiliate marketers teaching how to. I dare to say, anyone here, can find the equal of an AFFILIATE Master Course just in the posts of the last few months. Every challenge, every pit, every bad thing has been discussed here, and the beginner has FREE access here, to find the good, the bad, the FANTASY of their plan during the assessment phase, which most never use.


      I think the premise is faulty. I think many WSOs, or courses, give good actionable information. The problem is, every greener pasture still involves work. Once it dawns on you that you still have to learn and implement, it turns into the same thing, work.

      Anyway, it's a theory.
      I say you are right.

      Also, I would argue that WORK is lesson one in the real world, there are no free lunches, there has to be action, MOTION and all of that falls under the umbrella of work. The "dawning" also, is something that should or could happen in assessment.

      They come here by the thousands, and apparently a million of them have...however many there are, the idea, or intent is the same...to either LEARN how to make money online (90%) and others to share or teach (10%)...and what I see is 89% of the first group ignore the second one, most of the time.

      So I would include in the ASSESSMENT (and I have in the past), the amount of TIME one is willing to put in (work)...and my best guess is, 98% of those, overestimate that time, saying they have 20 hours a week, when in fact, they may have 7 or less.

      I do think you are right in that many think it easy, and automatic, and I contend that is what they are told by people selling the tools to the miners, falsely expecting them to actually use the tools. Might make for a good survey.

      GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    I agree with you that most do not start with a proper self-appraisal and end up either overestimating their time or skills.


    I also think some people lack imagination. In the sense that (probably because they did not do a proper self-appraisal and maybe lack of knowledge of what's involved) that they cannot see themselves as successful at what they do. By which I mean, they do not see themselves doing all the daily things that would make them successful.


    I also think the above (and other reasons) do not allow them to see where/what the value they bring is.


    I just came across an article about a woman who had a store that failed due to the 2008 depression. She, then, started a tanning salon. For some reason, a few years later, she took a button of a expensive brand name coat and made herself a pendant. Someone saw it, ask her where the got it, and, now, she buys used brand name coats, takes off their buttons and makes them into pendents that she sells. Article said she made $90k last year with this. Her marketing is $1100 a month. I do not know how much used brand name coats cost and how many she needs. She says, she's using about 50 buttons a month. If the coats she uses are like the ones I see, they've got at least 3 buttons, possibly 5. In any case, enough buttons that she is left with real profit.


    The articles summarizes something she said about her audience, which made it clear to me that she knew not only what the value she was bringing was but to whom it appealed.


    Online, especially, people new to marketing going for affiliate marketing, do not seem to know that, and end up discouraged and flailing about.


    You see it when they talk about weight loss being a niche. Or ask questions about what to sell.




    It is hard, in a sense, to know what the value you add is when you're an affiliate marketer.



    I mean, someone starts in the exercise equipment world. Lots of sellers of Stamina ellipticals. Why would they buy through your link?


    That requires, and many who've "been at it" for years do not know, that you understand what makes Stamina ellipticals a good choice for someone and who that someone is and where to find them to present them your affiliate link. It also requires you to know that you're adding value (well, for most people). And, something as mundane as: you knew where to put the link and what words/images to use to connect with the prospect does not seem to be good enough.



    And, like you said, underfunding is an issue. You see a lot of: I've got $1k, what's the best way to spend it to start online posts. In my part of the world, 1k doesn't take you a long way. It might get you started, but then you have to reinvest pretty much all you make for a while, to really get going.



    People are led to believe it can all be done with onpage SEO and, in theory, it can, if you have the time and stamina. Most do not know how long it takes to get a good stream of income with SEO alone.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      The reason I posted in the mind forum, is precisely as you say, how they SEE themselves. And whether it is called a fear of success, or low self image, as often as not here; they took the bait and the details of daily work activity is left out of whatever they found and bought into.

      The button lady fell into something, no plan there, however, what she did do right is find the MARKETPLACE, the demand, from people with the money to pay her price. I think, luck and timing, and finding the right fishing hole may play a big part of her success. That happens too.

      Most TikTokkers with huge numbers, have monitized their group without a plan, these are more of a FLUKE type thing.

      I have to disagree about affiliate marketing, the value they have is being a sales cog in someone's machine. Most in the affiliate game are dabblers, the ones making the money have the offers. But again, marketing, with many examples right here have a lot to do with their naive belief in what they read.

      This goes to their preparation and includes the assessments and plan of action, once they have chosen to do affiliate marketing. What they soon realize is, they are better to start with a product/service which they would buy (or have) and the value added is their personal testimonial. Sadly, too many affiliate offers don't have you buy, anyone can sell it.

      It was/is true in retail too, the whole BUILD IT THEY WILL COME concept, when marketing and promotional budgets are one of the last things they do, if they have any money left for it, when in reality, it should be right up with the decision. The reason I still get McDonald's ads in my mail box weekly, is THEY think it does them good, and I can't argue with their success, where as many/most/large % of new IMer's don't want to piss away money on paid advertising and go for natural, or organic eyeballs to sell their wares. Which goes to my point about speed and planning

      Again, most of this is MINDSET, and that mindset issue isn't often examined, especially by the desperate and those wanting to cash in on easy money with IM.

      GordonJ


      Originally Posted by DABK View Post

      I agree with you that most do not start with a proper self-appraisal and end up either overestimating their time or skills.


      I also think some people lack imagination. In the sense that (probably because they did not do a proper self-appraisal and maybe lack of knowledge of what's involved) that they cannot see themselves as successful at what they do. By which I mean, they do not see themselves doing all the daily things that would make them successful.


      I also think the above (and other reasons) do not allow them to see where/what the value they bring is.


      I just came across an article about a woman who had a store that failed due to the 2008 depression. She, then, started a tanning salon. For some reason, a few years later, she took a button of a expensive brand name coat and made herself a pendant. Someone saw it, ask her where the got it, and, now, she buys used brand name coats, takes off their buttons and makes them into pendents that she sells. Article said she made $90k last year with this. Her marketing is $1100 a month. I do not know how much used brand name coats cost and how many she needs. She says, she's using about 50 buttons a month. If the coats she uses are like the ones I see, they've got at least 3 buttons, possibly 5. In any case, enough buttons that she is left with real profit.


      The articles summarizes something she said about her audience, which made it clear to me that she knew not only what the value she was bringing was but to whom it appealed.


      Online, especially, people new to marketing going for affiliate marketing, do not seem to know that, and end up discouraged and flailing about.


      You see it when they talk about weight loss being a niche. Or ask questions about what to sell.




      It is hard, in a sense, to know what the value you add is when you're an affiliate marketer.



      I mean, someone starts in the exercise equipment world. Lots of sellers of Stamina ellipticals. Why would they buy through your link?


      That requires, and many who've "been at it" for years do not know, that you understand what makes Stamina ellipticals a good choice for someone and who that someone is and where to find them to present them your affiliate link. It also requires you to know that you're adding value (well, for most people). And, something as mundane as: you knew where to put the link and what words/images to use to connect with the prospect does not seem to be good enough.



      And, like you said, underfunding is an issue. You see a lot of: I've got $1k, what's the best way to spend it to start online posts. In my part of the world, 1k doesn't take you a long way. It might get you started, but then you have to reinvest pretty much all you make for a while, to really get going.



      People are led to believe it can all be done with onpage SEO and, in theory, it can, if you have the time and stamina. Most do not know how long it takes to get a good stream of income with SEO alone.
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    The number one reason why new Entrepreneurs give up is...they don't make money fast enough.
    As much as this is true, it is superficially true ( or so I believe ). If we use the WF as the bench mark... how often do we see "What Niche can I get into that is making money?" and THIS is the quickest formula to failure... its not even trial by fire... its just a dumpster fire right off the get go

    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    Persistence is great. A necessity for business success, I can't or won't argue that point. If you are not prepared to persist, rethink the idea.
    Persistence is all fine and good... but a more than healthy dose of consistency better be thrown in there. And ( I believe ) there has to be an amount of Sacrifice. Sacrifice before Success - even in the dictionary

    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    BUT, and this has been my bogaboo with Warriors for a couple of decades; and there are differing opinions, please share if so.

    I see and think there isn't enough time and thought spent in CHOOSING the path, and getting to What is wanted and Why? Or the INTENT.

    And there are tons of Warriors who dove in and then come back in 5, 7 years starting over.

    I don't think it takes, 7, 8 or 9 years to learn what you need to do, and execute IF, you begin with a solid well thought out plan and persist with that.

    Four years is plenty of time, and 2 years if working full time on your business, and after that one should be on their way.
    Time and path... I think I could argue / discuss the fact that there is far to much time in doing so... The path to success is sitting right in front of you... and the moment you are looking outside of your knowledge base or interest... the learning curve on developing a business is shifted to a learning curve of a niche or product or whatever... and then to try and mix the 2? its hard at best.

    My serial success' are rooted not in the Niche itself ( I believe there is no such things as a BAD niche ) but in the knowledge base and experience in execution. I know HOW to execute, so it doesnt matter WHAT I am executing with.


    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    A couple of observations; first most OVER estimate the time they have to work on a side hustle or part-time biz...and second; most are UNDER funded to begin with.
    I would suggest the opposite is true... I can sit here and say "Oh that would take weeks" but again I have the skill sets that make that happen... the reality is for most... my "weeks" is and will be years - it took me YEARS to get where I am today - and on a daily basis... I am dedicating time to keep up, and be ahead of the curve... the learning curve never ends. There is simply always and forever more to learn

    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    Now, of course, it is fun to read about all those multimillionaire IM gurus who get featured on the latest must have affiliate thing, for 1200 to 2200 dollars...but the phrase:

    If I did it, so can you. Is a very false premise.

    May be the biggest lie in IM. Just follow the plan, blueprint, do what I did, get what I got routine.

    If so, why wouldn't we just get a WSO, follow it, and get to greener pastures just like they did?
    Let my eBay thread and Art's experience stand as a testiment to this being a true statement ( and this is not ment as a jab or whatever... just a parallel to what is being discussed )

    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    It appears too many folks just don't know what they want, or why they want it...and then add unwilling to do or learn the things needed to take them to their goal.

    If you financial goal is 10k dollars a month with your IM, it shouldn't take you a decade to get there.
    Here is a fun take on this for you... it doesnt matter what you WANT... its a matter of what you HAVE ( skill sets ) to make what you want a reality.

    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    Go back 10 years here, to 2012, and see Warriors with financial goals still striving, still persisting...and look at Tik-Tok, a relatively new thing, and see the many millionaires who got there doing very silly stuff.
    This is where things get interesting... look at the likes of Mr. Beast, or Roman Atwood or Charli D'Amelio or Niestat or and or and or, they just followed a passion.... thought nothing of the end result, they were just blindly doing what they liked to do... and just so happened to do it consistently and "over night" ( haha ) success

    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    Now, of course, ACTION, or movement in the direction of a goal is needed, a MUST, but there isn't any reason to zig zag for years trying to hit a bee with a bb gun from 20 yards.

    The bee is the ever changing goal, the shiny object, the lack of persistence...and a lot of that comes from the set up, or start.

    An honest self appraisal of skills, knowledge, attitude and aptitude.
    As much as an honest self appraisal is a good thing, it is short sided in the sense that its only half of the needed action... its great to know what you HAVE, its better to know what you NEED, and start the process of education.

    Somewhere in here I know you mention lack of funding... thinking you are going to hire people to do all of the things you do not know how to? again a thought process that is heading you right to the path of failure.

    If you are going to start a business utilizing the internet... you had better have the ability to write... to build a website... to understand how to use social media etc etc..and its not that you have to be proficient... but at a minimum have the ability to work through the process.

    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    Not nearly enough time spent on that. THEN, a goal, and a plan, and analytics, knowing how much progress is being made.

    And if the goal is reached in 2 or 3 years, the MAINTAIN plan, how to keep it going and growing with less and less effort and attention, more of an automated process.

    I prefer SPEED, along with persistence.

    Do something small, get some early success, get a profit in 30 days, grow and build out, but if it is a year in and little to know profits, maybe time to see exactly what you are persisting for??

    Your opinions?

    GordonJ
    I cant argue with this... but we are looking at this through a lens of our success' and our expectations... my weeks is anothers months or years. I generally dont sell clothes and am very clear as to why... but the investment is low... and it meets the outcome equation... and there is a lot of it ( ITS EASY ) and we quickly watch weeks turn into months.

    I absolutely feel where the topic is coming from... its straight up frustrating to watch - at all levels - the artist on the main board been at it for 5 years... it pains me to read stories like that. there is a faster way sure, BUT you have to have the skill sets... and the DESIRE to aquire skillsets in order to speed things up... and even more important is knowing what you need to learn to speed things up.

    If I am going to start building a house tomorrow..and I show up with an empty pickup truck..how fast is that house going to be built? I have to understand what TOOLS are needed for the job, and what requirements or rules ( code in the instance of building ) are needed to follow SEO is being a good one here, or what you can or cant sell on eBay, what you can and cant say on social media platforms...

    Action is a thing.. Consistent / persistent action is a thing... but if you are not educating in the process, and only doing what YOU think to be whats needed... vs learning whats needed, 2 totally different outcomes

    The path to "Success" is one of education / skill set building built apon a platform of existing knowledge and experience - and instead of reaching for the stars...sometimes these pools ( knowledge, experience, skill sets ) are right in front of you.. I like my little pony and have a collection of 40 of them ( an example ) THATS a start - far better than say Forex trading and I have $100 to build a site and sell a course... for the love of... hahaha
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    This is just an observation. But a lot of the people who seem to struggle at this are actually at best creating low paid or money losing jobs. And trying to jump from job to job to find the one that makes the most money.

    Rather than the this is what I want to do and the only way to do it in a way I enjoy is to build a business. Mode of a real entrepreneur not someone playing entrepreneur.

    The entrepreneur trying to learn I'm probably has another way to earn money to fund the IM activity that benefits from learning IM .

    Their growing turnips a dozen different ways to figure out the most effective ways to grow turnips then shooting videos of the process writing reports and occasionally putting on workshops for people wanting to grow more turnips.

    The worker be is just trying to grow and sell as many turnips as they can. To make more money.hoping for work life balance and to one day retire.

    An example I can point to from when I was working in a costume on the Vegas strip. I was talking to on guy who had been doing the busking thing from about the time of the great financial crisis. He had made enough to buy a few houses during the downtown and had several costumes he was renting out. So he was still making hundreds of dollars a day. While his buddy who had worked with him through the years and made as much money on the strip was basically broke.

    Now the guy who had a better version of the same costume I worked in and made a lot more money also was buying pick up trucks at auctions fixing them up and flipping them.

    The worker bee trying to make more money versus the entrepreneur who does more business things because that's what they do
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      This is just an observation. But a lot of the people who seem to struggle at this are actually at best creating low paid or money losing jobs. And trying to jump from job to job to find the one that makes the most money.

      Rather than the this is what I want to do and the only way to do it in a way I enjoy is to build a business. Mode of a real entrepreneur not someone playing entrepreneur.

      The entrepreneur trying to learn I'm probably has another way to earn money to fund the IM activity that benefits from learning IM .

      Their growing turnips a dozen different ways to figure out the most effective ways to grow turnips then shooting videos of the process writing reports and occasionally putting on workshops for people wanting to grow more turnips.

      The worker be is just trying to grow and sell as many turnips as they can. To make more money.hoping for work life balance and to one day retire.

      An example I can point to from when I was working in a costume on the Vegas strip. I was talking to on guy who had been doing the busking thing from about the time of the great financial crisis. He had made enough to buy a few houses during the downtown and had several costumes he was renting out. So he was still making hundreds of dollars a day. While his buddy who had worked with him through the years and made as much money on the strip was basically broke.

      Now the guy who had a better version of the same costume I worked in and made a lot more money also was buying pick up trucks at auctions fixing them up and flipping them.

      The worker bee trying to make more money versus the entrepreneur who does more business things because that's what they do
      I think...

      The answer to this is the conditioned mindset in relation to time... 9 to 5 is work... nd the rest of the time?

      Its breaking the conditioning of time, from 5 to 9 ( the remaining time from the 9 to 5 grind ) that separates a bee and an entrepreneur.

      Its not so much "what we do" its that we understand that you can only make so much money from 9 to 5.

      As an example, myself... if I were to work from 9 to 5 only... I for sure would not be where I am at today and even where I am at today I "work" more than 9 to 5. Look at
      anyone that is "Successful" and I mean ANYONE... and its the 9 to 5 pattern that is broken.

      Especially when you are just starting... I say it all the time... "WORK" from 9 to 5 and then create your future from 6 to midnight. ( THIS being the Sacrifice ) I would say most people drop the 9 to 5 way to early ( or right off the get ) and replace that with the 6 to midnight - and this ends up in a downward spiral.

      Work life balance and all of this stuff is a part of the 9 to 5 conditioning...I had a father that worked 9 to 5..and to be honest I never saw him much. I personally work 7am to 2am most days and spend more time with my son than I ever have - but say the first 5 years of his life... never saw him much - maybe an hour a day?

      Balancing life comes after the point its out of balance if that makes sense.... to be forward thinking and think of all of these things... is limiting,and will effect the moonlighting that ultimately will over time create the wealth most are looking for - its not that they cant - they wont because they need more me time or family balance time or this or that or the other.

      I will bet the guy that flipped trucks - ENJOYED doing it. I bet the guy that invested in property ENJOYED doing it... and the guy that is still broke... he enjoyed whatever he was doing ( Vegas one can only imagine ) BUT the end results over time are very different.

      What can you do today to make tomorrow better?
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    here is an interesting take on speed.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gOLeK65aoqE
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      here is an interesting take on speed.

      https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gOLeK65aoqE
      First, I Acknowledge you will NOT like hearing this.

      But, at the risk of offending (again?)...YOU are more cut out to follow a Gary V. then the rest of us. You are UNIQUE among Warriors, and here is why.

      I can name a few people with 100 million dollar companies, and GaryV is maybe twice that. Most of them may have several companies, as you do, under their umbrella. Unlike you, I doubt that most of the CEO's can name all of their employees, and if needed, could actually leave the Executive Suite and FILL IN for every employee they have.

      There may be, but I doubt it, another Warrior who operates up to 18 different businesses and knows what each is doing, how, when and where and maintains that FAMILY relationship with employees.

      But if there are, great. But what makes you UNIQUE, is, you are here SHARING. You could easily sell us all kinds of stuff, maybe run a WSO every week if you wanted. But you don't. YOU GIVE and share.

      The early days of the Warrior had some of the biggest names today in IM, and we saw their beginnings and growth, and bought their products, yet today, Warrior is beneath them...they don't "waste their time" on us little guys, we CLEMENTINES.

      And speed may be the devil if you want to grow the largest Sumo in Japan, or have an orchard of giant Naval oranges in Palm Beach county...then growth has to take time, and the costly mistakes avoided, which come from their failures as much as success.

      I don't want employees. Not 1 or 1001. There is somewhere a math formula, and as best I can recall it goes like this:

      One person shops for the most part are good up to a million, beyond that, HELP IS NEEDED, be it an assistant, or an employee or a contractor...the work load grows as the income does. Very few exceptions to this, which is why I pointed out Harvey Brody, whom I would also say is UNIQUE on the business landscape.

      There may very well be Warriors who want to be the next GaryV, or Frank Kern before him or any of the BIG DOGS of marketing.

      But I try to address, for the most part, the mainstream Warrior, who comes here with hope and seeks whatever it is they want in financial terms.

      And it is painful to see these guys post about 5 years, let alone 7, 9 or YIKES 15...of being on the treadmill.

      Speed may kill some guys like GaryV and how he goes about it. A different idea comes from Ben Suarez, who built a business which has sold several Billion dollars of products, who wrote that "SPEED kills the competition".

      Well, Ben, Gary and You all operate very involved, many moving part businesses, which I doubt the majority of Warriors really are aiming for.

      So, in the context of the Warrior forum, and those seeking to make money fast...there are NO rules against it.

      I could name several, maybe a 100, but let me throw out just two, and these guys sell very low cost reports on how to make a profit in 30 days, and both have decades of success behind them.

      Jeff Smith with information products. (if googling, add Internet marketer)

      Stuart Turnbull an etsy/eBay seller, and one of his many products is simply OLD PATENTS (public domain) sold as wall hangings or as ornamental art. He also has, in my opinion, a perfect FREE front end, a HOTSHEET on selling on etsy.

      Any Warrior could follow their simple plans to a profit, and if takes 30 days, man, someone has overcomplicated it.

      So, sure, there is a difference between the 200, 100, even 10 million dollar Entrepreneurs and those seeking a measly $20,000.00 a month from their IM.

      I feel that GaryV is not the best role model for the latter.

      GordonJ
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11732490].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        First, I Acknowledge you will NOT like hearing this.

        But, at the risk of offending (again?)...YOU are more cut out to follow a Gary V. then the rest of us. You are UNIQUE among Warriors, and here is why.

        I can name a few people with 100 million dollar companies, and GaryV is maybe twice that. Most of them may have several companies, as you do, under their umbrella. Unlike you, I doubt that most of the CEO's can name all of their employees, and if needed, could actually leave the Executive Suite and FILL IN for every employee they have.

        There may be, but I doubt it, another Warrior who operates up to 18 different businesses and knows what each is doing, how, when and where and maintains that FAMILY relationship with employees.
        Mabe unique in this environment... maybe... but letes go back to Odahh's example real quick...the one guy is broke and the other is still working the same 9 to 5 job, he is renting out costumes, and he is buying rental properties. Thats 3 potential "Business'" Throw in the possibility of a Real Estate License, the possibility of having worked with a construction crew to do some remodels and he is taking on work and farming that crew out..and we are up to 5. Gonna bet the guy dabbles in stocks and crypto as well. Even in the most mundane of scenarios 3, 4, and 5 business ventures is well within the reach of "normal""

        A part of my overall numbers is how I organize a "business" I dont have a Multi Media firm.. I operate a Website firm, a SEO firm, a Local SEO firm, a Large Format Firm, a this and a that and another - a number of reasons I do this, 1 being the tax benefit - of passing dollars between one and the other and the next, the other being the clean separation and the ability to sell any one part of something.

        As it will stand on Dec 31 this year I will be operating 16 business' gained a few and sold a few this year - hence the clean cut separation. There is the works by maybe end of 1st quarter next year that I will be down to 12. Might be parting with 1 business that has 4 working parts..

        I am not so different than say Iamnameless or the like in the sense I run a Agency... what makes me unique is the structure He runs 1 business, I run 4, 5, and 6 doing the exact same thing.

        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        But if there are, great. But what makes you UNIQUE, is, you are here SHARING. You could easily sell us all kinds of stuff, maybe run a WSO every week if you wanted. But you don't. YOU GIVE and share.
        As do you... and why do YOU do it? I have spoken about my whys whats yours?

        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        The early days of the Warrior had some of the biggest names today in IM, and we saw their beginnings and growth, and bought their products, yet today, Warrior is beneath them...they don't "waste their time" on us little guys, we CLEMENTINES.
        I know exactly what you are saying...and to be honest I dont understand - well maybe I do to some extent - WF is in most cases an exact match target audience... of the WF members of old, I keep in touch with... and some of these folks cant and probably wont put together that their decline and leaving WF kinda go hand in hand... and the ones that are succeeding in business finally found the power of ads like someone on the main board that brought up this whole discussion, and simply never looked back... like why bother with content marketing? Ill just use paid ads. the name Lopez easily comes to mind

        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        And speed may be the devil if you want to grow the largest Sumo in Japan, or have an orchard of giant Naval oranges in Palm Beach county...then growth has to take time, and the costly mistakes avoided, which come from their failures as much as success.

        I don't want employees. Not 1 or 1001. There is somewhere a math formula, and as best I can recall it goes like this:

        One person shops for the most part are good up to a million, beyond that, HELP IS NEEDED, be it an assistant, or an employee or a contractor...the work load grows as the income does. Very few exceptions to this, which is why I pointed out Harvey Brody, whom I would also say is UNIQUE on the business landscape.

        There may very well be Warriors who want to be the next GaryV, or Frank Kern before him or any of the BIG DOGS of marketing.
        Speed scales... the more of you there are, the faster things will happen. Im in no way suggesting hey get employees... look at my body of work here on WF and you will actually find my saying the opposite... to the point I suggest NOT getting a VA - learn to do it yourself...1 man show - ALL IN on the concept.

        Your absolutely correct... most people dont go in thinking oh I want X number of employees and I am going to hit $1,000,000 in 6 months - let me maybe rephrase that a bit.... THATS the dream - and then reality hits.

        Art, I hate using you as an example - but its just clear and present. Whats the difference between $40 into $250 in a month, vs 50k to 100k in a year? One man show ( and his son ) vs what you might call GaryV or Frank Kerns... and the scenarios are flipped based on knowledge base.

        I had a few years of previous experience, I guided my wife and an employee off the get. In that scenario we /she doesnt buy 1 of anything for the most part...its 10 of, 400 of, or recently 4000 of the exact same thing in 6 different sizes ( and it happens to be an item of clothing ) - 6 listings on eBay with a standing total inventory of 4000... we dont buy boxes of inventory that is one offs

        That thread was a dumbed down anyone can do it example of far bigger and better things - the bar was set low for a reason... I was out of my actual operating element... i started buying iPhones and what ever else to ensure I hit the number... it was dang stressful - I couldnt fail - my name was riding on it. Social pressure like no tomorrow self imposed to impress a bunch of people i dont even know... might as well have bought a Lambo

        Knowing this...read through that thread again and you will see what hussle is. Its not turning $1 items into $10... its finding the $100 item you can turn into $500 or the recent $4000 investment of 1 item 4000 times over to turn into 80K, if all goes right over the course of the next few year.

        And then one has to ask... where is the speed in that? We can clearly see where the success is... but how many people have the patience to let it play out?

        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        But I try to address, for the most part, the mainstream Warrior, who comes here with hope and seeks whatever it is they want in financial terms.

        And it is painful to see these guys post about 5 years, let alone 7, 9 or YIKES 15...of being on the treadmill.

        Speed may kill some guys like GaryV and how he goes about it. A different idea comes from Ben Suarez, who built a business which has sold several Billion dollars of products, who wrote that "SPEED kills the competition".

        Well, Ben, Gary and You all operate very involved, many moving part businesses, which I doubt the majority of Warriors really are aiming for.

        So, in the context of the Warrior forum, and those seeking to make money fast...there are NO rules against it.

        I could name several, maybe a 100, but let me throw out just two, and these guys sell very low cost reports on how to make a profit in 30 days, and both have decades of success behind them.

        Jeff Smith with information products. (if googling, add Internet marketer)

        Stuart Turnbull an etsy/eBay seller, and one of his many products is simply OLD PATENTS (public domain) sold as wall hangings or as ornamental art. He also has, in my opinion, a perfect FREE front end, a HOTSHEET on selling on etsy.

        Any Warrior could follow their simple plans to a profit, and if takes 30 days, man, someone has overcomplicated it.

        So, sure, there is a difference between the 200, 100, even 10 million dollar Entrepreneurs and those seeking a measly $20,000.00 a month from their IM.
        Trust me I get what you are saying... BUT... its not that simple - nor that fast... whats the #1 biggest beginners dilemma? Can we agree that it is traffic? and following traffic, its then what to do with it, and then how to convert it. and forget the steps of picking what to do, or building a website.

        The moving parts in building a site, building an email list, and then writing compelling, informative emails, and then trying to actually convert, let alone get traffic to make this all happen - and do it quickly? Hopefully I am laughing with you, and not at you ( haha ) That is a H U G E learning curve.

        Someone on the main board says "Hey I quit my job and have 30 days to get something started, what do you suggest?" what are the most sound suggestions? "A new JOB" Someone on the Copywriting board says "I am learning how to copywrite and am looking for clients" and the general consensus of the group is?

        How can you say this can all be done FAST "30 days" even... and yet... we ALL know the reality of this is starting an IM business takes time - there is a lot to learn.

        I am guilty of it this... hey watch videos or get a course or this and that ( i dont generally suggest getting a course ) I have been developing a course - for eBay... i have searched the web up one side down the other... I have bought some courses, I have "Borrowed" some, and from everything I can find... my thread is probably the most thorough that I have found.

        For giggles.. try and find a decent article on shipping for Facebook / Instagram market places... find one for Etsy... for that matter find one for eBay - they dont exist.

        Let me throw a wicked crazy example of this. I use Region A and Region B boxes OFTEN. here is a link to USPS that explains the boxes ( https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Regional-Rate-Boxes. )

        Here is another link to some shipping site: ( https://www.usglobalmail.com/usps-regional-rate-box-a/ )

        ok now that you have read those...would you like to know what Region A and Region B boxes are used for?

        Region A boxes are used for items up to 15 lbs and as long as they fit in the box they ship at a flat 2 lb postage rate. if an items weighs 1 lb it ships as if the box weighs 2 lbs. If an item weighs 15 lbs, it ships as if the item weighs 2 lbs.

        Region B boxes are used for items up to 20 lbs and as long as they fit in the box they ship at a flat 5 lb postage rate. if an items weighs 1 lb it ships as if the box weighs 5 lbs. If an item weighs 20 lbs, it ships as if the item weighs 5 lbs.

        ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with zones or regions or anything like that ( other than the increase in postage across zones ) - and if you searched the web you will be hard pressed to find the actual "Truth"

        Simple things like when to use flat rate USPS boxes, vs just regular Priority - more often than not regular Priority will be less expensive than a fat rate box

        And this is just one nuance of developing and building an Online business - expensive lessons to be learned - this stuff is the difference between breaking even, and actually making money - AND its just not here on the WF...I see this struggle on the daily with my business helping clients. I cant count how many clients I have sent up to the "eBay Shed" for a shipping 101 class

        And we are talking about the last step, fulfillment end of everything... and if this is complicated what about the 15 moving parts that come before this?

        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        I feel that GaryV is not the best role model for the latter.
        You can feel however you want <being sarcastic> but really... All of his principles scale from the beginner to the guy running a thing. the $1.80 Instagram Strategy as an example... works for guys like YOU, and guys like me, or my mother-in-law, or my son, or the young lady next door that writes and illustrates childrens books.

        Lets throw this one around: https://garyvaynerchuk.com/how-to-cr...tent-in-a-day/

        Hot Sheet on Steroids and applicable to ALL - Traffic building 101.

        and PS I love hearing this... discourse is how we expand on our own ideas as well as taking / learning ideas from others
        Signature
        Success is an ACT not an idea
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          Mabe unique in this environment... maybe... but letes go back to Odahh's example real quick...the one guy is broke and the other is still working the same 9 to 5 job, he is renting out costumes, and he is buying rental properties. Thats 3 potential "Business'" Throw in the possibility of a Real Estate License, the possibility of having worked with a construction crew to do some remodels and he is taking on work and farming that crew out..and we are up to 5. Gonna bet the guy dabbles in stocks and crypto as well. Even in the most mundane of scenarios 3, 4, and 5 business ventures is well within the reach of "normal""
          Ah ha. Gold right up front, what a great way to think about it, and what you do so well is make these stand alone, so as to be an asset if wanted, to be sold off. I see.

          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          A part of my overall numbers is how I organize a "business" I dont have a Multi Media firm.. I operate a Website firm, a SEO firm, a Local SEO firm, a Large Format

          Firm, a this and a that and another - a number of reasons I do this, 1 being the tax benefit - of passing dollars between one and the other and the next, the other being the clean separation and the ability to sell any one part of something.

          As it will stand on Dec 31 this year I will be operating 16 business' gained a few and sold a few this year - hence the clean cut separation. There is the works by maybe end of 1st quarter next year that I will be down to 12. Might be parting with 1 business that has 4 working parts..

          I am not so different than say Iamnameless or the like in the sense I run a Agency... what makes me unique is the structure He runs 1 business, I run 4, 5, and 6 doing the exact same thing.
          Is it safe to say, correct if wrong, that these act as divisions within the agency? And any given division can be spun off because they can stand on their own? You've broken down function into a part of the agency which could go ahead without that part? Maybe I got this wrong.

          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          As do you... and why do YOU do it? I have spoken about my whys whats yours?
          Mine is to annoy and provoke. It is how we can scrape off the layer of B.S. prevalent at all public forums, groups.
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post


          I know exactly what you are saying...and to be honest I dont understand - well maybe I do to some extent - WF is in most cases an exact match target audience... of the WF members of old, I keep in touch with... and some of these folks cant and probably wont put together that their decline and leaving WF kinda go hand in hand... and the ones that are succeeding in business finally found the power of ads like someone on the main board that brought up this whole discussion, and simply never looked back... like why bother with content marketing? Ill just use paid ads. the name Lopez easily comes to mind

          Speed scales... the more of you there are, the faster things will happen. Im in no way suggesting hey get employees... look at my body of work here on WF and you will actually find my saying the opposite... to the point I suggest NOT getting a VA - learn to do it yourself...1 man show - ALL IN on the concept.

          Your absolutely correct... most people dont go in thinking oh I want X number of employees and I am going to hit $1,000,000 in 6 months - let me maybe rephrase that a bit.... THATS the dream - and then reality hits.
          I get it, many have simply outgrown the WF, and since the takeover, the circus like 5 years after, have made many come to the conclusion, not worth my time. And it probably isn't.

          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          Art, I hate using you as an example - but its just clear and present. Whats the difference between $40 into $250 in a month, vs 50k to 100k in a year? One man show ( and his son ) vs what you might call GaryV or Frank Kerns... and the scenarios are flipped based on knowledge base.

          I had a few years of previous experience, I guided my wife and an employee off the get. In that scenario we /she doesnt buy 1 of anything for the most part...its 10 of, 400 of, or recently 4000 of the exact same thing in 6 different sizes ( and it happens to be an item of clothing ) - 6 listings on eBay with a standing total inventory of 4000... we dont buy boxes of inventory that is one offs

          That thread was a dumbed down anyone can do it example of far bigger and better things - the bar was set low for a reason... I was out of my actual operating element... i started buying iPhones and what ever else to ensure I hit the number... it was dang stressful - I couldnt fail - my name was riding on it. Social pressure like no tomorrow self imposed to impress a bunch of people i dont even know... might as well have bought a Lambo

          Knowing this...read through that thread again and you will see what hussle is. Its not turning $1 items into $10... its finding the $100 item you can turn into $500 or the recent $4000 investment of 1 item 4000 times over to turn into 80K, if all goes right over the course of the next few year.

          And then one has to ask... where is the speed in that? We can clearly see where the success is... but how many people have the patience to let it play out?
          In your eBay thread, one of the best ever here...you were on a learning curve too and showed us how to go from a little to REINVESTMENT and build.

          As to the difference between 40 into 250 vs. 50 to 100k a year...your thoughts on instead of small things, many sold vs. ONE more expensive thing flipped quickly, not at 3 to 4 times cost, but at a small 5 to 10% profit per item.

          So, as using Art and we do appreciate his journey and sharing it with us.

          Say, instead of his start, he took that initial 1500 and bought ONE item to flip. For example, a small fishing boat. Instead of going for 4500 or 6000, the 3 to 4 times...it sold quickly for 1700, a 200 or 10% profit. Living near lakes he might find such a boat in Port St. Lucie and sell it in Buckhead Ridge. Say it cost 100 in gas to get it, he would then only have 100 net profit, but now has 1600 for the next buy.

          And the secret to these smaller % flips is to keep the cash in circulation, not storage. So, whatever the 1500 could buy...and it could be anything...and a boat on a trailer or a canoe or used ski boat...might be bulky, a pen or watch could fit in a pocket...so whatever 1500 buys, and there is demand for, it can go down the road for a small %, as long as there is profit, and by keeping it in circulation goes up the ladder.

          So instead of 40 to 250, that 1500 could be 2000 in a month with only one flip a week, and a 500 dollar profit the first month. Keeping it going the 2k could be 3k, and the 3 into 4 and after 6 months of smaller number of flips at higher prices, one would have a profit that could be drawn from (a monthly paycheck, and the capital to keep buying and selling). This is just another way to buy and sell, without an eBay store and without storage, and maybe, without the TIME too.

          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post


          Trust me I get what you are saying... BUT... its not that simple - nor that fast... whats the #1 biggest beginners dilemma? Can we agree that it is traffic? and following traffic, its then what to do with it, and then how to convert it. and forget the steps of picking what to do, or building a website.

          The moving parts in building a site, building an email list, and then writing compelling, informative emails, and then trying to actually convert, let alone get traffic to make this all happen - and do it quickly? Hopefully I am laughing with you, and not at you ( haha ) That is a H U G E learning curve.

          Someone on the main board says "Hey I quit my job and have 30 days to get something started, what do you suggest?" what are the most sound suggestions? "A new JOB" Someone on the Copywriting board says "I am learning how to copywrite and am looking for clients" and the general consensus of the group is?

          How can you say this can all be done FAST "30 days" even... and yet... we ALL know the reality of this is starting an IM business takes time - there is a lot to learn.

          I am guilty of it this... hey watch videos or get a course or this and that ( i dont generally suggest getting a course ) I have been developing a course - for eBay... i have searched the web up one side down the other... I have bought some courses, I have "Borrowed" some, and from everything I can find... my thread is probably the most thorough that I have found.

          For giggles.. try and find a decent article on shipping for Facebook / Instagram market places... find one for Etsy... for that matter find one for eBay - they dont exist.

          Let me throw a wicked crazy example of this. I use Region A and Region B boxes OFTEN. here is a link to USPS that explains the boxes ( https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Regional-Rate-Boxes. )

          Here is another link to some shipping site: ( https://www.usglobalmail.com/usps-regional-rate-box-a/ )

          ok now that you have read those...would you like to know what Region A and Region B boxes are used for?

          Region A boxes are used for items up to 15 lbs and as long as they fit in the box they ship at a flat 2 lb postage rate. if an items weighs 1 lb it ships as if the box weighs 2 lbs. If an item weighs 15 lbs, it ships as if the item weighs 2 lbs.

          Region B boxes are used for items up to 20 lbs and as long as they fit in the box they ship at a flat 5 lb postage rate. if an items weighs 1 lb it ships as if the box weighs 5 lbs. If an item weighs 20 lbs, it ships as if the item weighs 5 lbs.

          ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with zones or regions or anything like that ( other than the increase in postage across zones ) - and if you searched the web you will be hard pressed to find the actual "Truth"

          Simple things like when to use flat rate USPS boxes, vs just regular Priority - more often than not regular Priority will be less expensive than a fat rate box

          And this is just one nuance of developing and building an Online business - expensive lessons to be learned - this stuff is the difference between breaking even, and actually making money - AND its just not here on the WF...I see this struggle on the daily with my business helping clients. I cant count how many clients I have sent up to the "eBay Shed" for a shipping 101 class
          And those are things most IMers don't think about at start up, and why maybe doing ONLINE isn't the right thing at this time for them, but if so, then during the ASSESSMENT and PLANNING PHASE, these are simple checklists.

          And as far as products, quick ones. This post, THIS ONE, gives one an idea for a Hotsheet, about A and B regional shipping, which could be sold, turned into a short specialty report, used as a front end lead generator, to capture email and to find a market niche...several uses, as GaryV instructs in that very good deck you linked to...and turned into a quick build up.

          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          And we are talking about the last step, fulfillment end of everything... and if this is complicated what about the 15 moving parts that come before this?

          You can feel however you want <being sarcastic> but really... All of his principles scale from the beginner to the guy running a thing. the $1.80 Instagram Strategy as an example... works for guys like YOU, and guys like me, or my mother-in-law, or my son, or the young lady next door that writes and illustrates childrens books.

          Lets throw this one around: https://garyvaynerchuk.com/how-to-cr...tent-in-a-day/

          Hot Sheet on Steroids and applicable to ALL - Traffic building 101.

          and PS I love hearing this... discourse is how we expand on our own ideas as well as taking / learning ideas from others
          Since were shilling gurus, today, right now, I would advise a newbie to join Nothing Held Back group on Facebook, by Alen Sultanic (a former Warrior?)...and put on blinders to everyone else out there. Not saying GaryV doesn't offer some great advice, he does. But I would also argue, that NONE of them are needed, until, one has a clear idea of what they want, why they want it and some initial thoughts on a plan to get it.

          My song hasn't changed in the last 20 years, I like the path of least resistance, the least amount of Time, slop and mess, and moving parts.

          GordonJ
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          • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
            Say, instead of his start, he took that initial 1500 and bought ONE item to flip. For example, a small fishing boat. Instead of going for 4500 or 6000, the 3 to 4 times...it sold quickly for 1700, a 200 or 10% profit. Living near lakes he might find such a boat in Port St. Lucie and sell it in Buckhead Ridge. Say it cost 100 in gas to get it, he would then only have 100 net profit, but now has 1600 for the next buy.

            And the secret to these smaller % flips is to keep the cash in circulation, not storage. So, whatever the 1500 could buy...and it could be anything...and a boat on a trailer or a canoe or used ski boat...might be bulky, a pen or watch could fit in a pocket...so whatever 1500 buys, and there is demand for, it can go down the road for a small %, as long as there is profit, and by keeping it in circulation goes up the ladder.

            So instead of 40 to 250, that 1500 could be 2000 in a month with only one flip a week, and a 500 dollar profit the first month. Keeping it going the 2k could be 3k, and the 3 into 4 and after 6 months of smaller number of flips at higher prices, one would have a profit that could be drawn from (a monthly paycheck, and the capital to keep buying and selling). This is just another way to buy and sell, without an eBay store and without storage, and maybe, without the TIME too.
            ************************************************** *****************8

            So, here:

            I have 1500 bux. I want to buy SOMETHING and flip it quickly.

            Because I have in my files, many case studies, I'll pull a couple and compare to today's process. A marketer in CA bought a bass fishing boat on Fri. for 1500 took it to the lake on Sun and sold it for 3k, doubled his money in what he said was about 6 hours including drive time.

            At one time WF had several of my case studies, most are no longer here. One I can think of reported he bought a knife sharpener for 120 locally and sold it on eBAY for 750. That was over a decade ago. Anyone selling knife sharpeners today?, well, eBay shows sold listings as recent as Oct. 18, and 25, and so on. Many over 500 dollars.

            I see a few that could easily make 50 to 100 profit buying off eBay and selling on Facebook Marketplace.

            So TODAY, Oct. 30, 2022. My example.

            I chose boats, because if one lives near water, they are an Evergreen thing.

            I found a boat for sale on Craigslist, in FL Treasure coast, for an Inflatable with a 3.5 hp motor for sale for 1450, within the 1500. I then checked ebay and saw similar boats without the motor going for around the same price.
            no
            Then to Google, exact match search: no exact, but same ball park, without motor, which has about 450 dollar replacement value.

            Then to Facebook Marketplace, and then to Google again, only going to sites with inflatables.

            This DEEP DIVE research took me all of 15 minutes, enough info to tell me that boat has at least 200 stored value and anything off the price, make an offer of 1200 cash today...and I know I can buy it in Stuart, and with creative ADVERTISING, or a good promotion can quickly make at least a 250 dollar profit.

            So, then I would have 1750 to work with. And this is a one day deal, and maybe a couple to sell it, especially with a MUST SELL OR GET A DIVORCE type ad, creative.

            Then I go look for a 1600 dollar SOMETHING to sell, and repeat the process.

            There is so much information, and eBayers ESPECIALLY know this with sold listings, it gives real market value today on almost anything. Coupled with a few searches, and it isn't rocket science to discover stored value ready to be flipped for a profit. Not a 3 to 4 times cost, but a profit, and as long as one does that, it builds up quickly as the more things one offers.

            And again, with eBay, etsy, Marketplace, Amazon...it isn't hard nor take very long to find out what is in demand and what people are paying. And if there is a profit quickly, take it today and reinvest tomorrow.

            GordonJ
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            • Profile picture of the author art72
              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

              Say, instead of his start, he took that initial 1500 and bought ONE item to flip. For example, a small fishing boat. Instead of going for 4500 or 6000, the 3 to 4 times...it sold quickly for 1700, a 200 or 10% profit. Living near lakes he might find such a boat in Port St. Lucie and sell it in Buckhead Ridge. Say it cost 100 in gas to get it, he would then only have 100 net profit, but now has 1600 for the next buy.

              And the secret to these smaller % flips is to keep the cash in circulation, not storage. So, whatever the 1500 could buy...and it could be anything...and a boat on a trailer or a canoe or used ski boat...might be bulky, a pen or watch could fit in a pocket...so whatever 1500 buys, and there is demand for, it can go down the road for a small %, as long as there is profit, and by keeping it in circulation goes up the ladder.

              So instead of 40 to 250, that 1500 could be 2000 in a month with only one flip a week, and a 500 dollar profit the first month. Keeping it going the 2k could be 3k, and the 3 into 4 and after 6 months of smaller number of flips at higher prices, one would have a profit that could be drawn from (a monthly paycheck, and the capital to keep buying and selling). This is just another way to buy and sell, without an eBay store and without storage, and maybe, without the TIME too.
              ************************************************** *****************8

              So, here:

              I have 1500 bux. I want to buy SOMETHING and flip it quickly.

              Because I have in my files, many case studies, I'll pull a couple and compare to today's process. A marketer in CA bought a bass fishing boat on Fri. for 1500 took it to the lake on Sun and sold it for 3k, doubled his money in what he said was about 6 hours including drive time.

              At one time WF had several of my case studies, most are no longer here. One I can think of reported he bought a knife sharpener for 120 locally and sold it on eBAY for 750. That was over a decade ago. Anyone selling knife sharpeners today?, well, eBay shows sold listings as recent as Oct. 18, and 25, and so on. Many over 500 dollars.

              I see a few that could easily make 50 to 100 profit buying off eBay and selling on Facebook Marketplace.

              So TODAY, Oct. 30, 2002. My example.

              I chose boats, because if one lives near water, they are an Evergreen thing.

              I found a boat for sale on Craigslist, in FL Treasure coast, for an Inflatable with a 3.5 hp motor for sale for 1450, within the 1500. I then checked ebay and saw similar boats without the motor going for around the same price.
              no
              Then to Google, exact match search: no exact, but same ball park, without motor, which has about 450 dollar replacement value.

              Then to Facebook Marketplace, and then to Google again, only going to sites with inflatables.

              This DEEP DIVE research took me all of 15 minutes, enough info to tell me that boat has at least 200 stored value and anything off the price, make an offer of 1200 cash today...and I know I can buy it in Stuart, and with creative ADVERTISING, or a good promotion can quickly make at least a 250 dollar profit.

              So, then I would have 1750 to work with. And this is a one day deal, and maybe a couple to sell it, especially with a MUST SELL OR GET A DIVORCE type ad, creative.

              Then I go look for a 1600 dollar SOMETHING to sell, and repeat the process.

              There is so much information, and eBayers ESPECIALLY know this with sold listings, it gives real market value today on almost anything. Coupled with a few searches, and it isn't rocket science to discover stored value ready to be flipped for a profit. Not a 3 to 4 times cost, but a profit, and as long as one does that, it builds up quickly as the more things one offers.

              And again, with eBay, etsy, Marketplace, Amazon...it isn't hard nor take very long to find out what is in demand and what people are paying. And if there is a profit quickly, take it today and reinvest tomorrow.

              GordonJ
              You are absolutely on point, as we just had a long discussion about flipping boats, cars, trucks, motorcycles, etc...

              I've done that in my younger years, buying, selling, trading, or bartering to UPGRADE and gain value in the asset(s)... Such was exactly how we acquired a 17' aluminum v-nose with a 20 hp Mercury motor on a trailer... We acquired a Buell Blast 500cc Motorcycle for pennies ($300 on a side job) and the boat was worth at least $2,000 when we traded the bike for the boat.

              Granted, the boat was a necessity to cast net fish... And, that $300 over 4.5 years produced at (or around) $150,000 in SOLD fish!

              Now, I too agree with the solopreneur -vs- business ownership... As I have had very little success trying to clone myself, via training others.

              Just this past Friday... a contractor put me on a job with a 26-year-old guy, he wants to sub-contract, get paid by the sq ft... And, be independent.

              He dropped at least (3) three lies before lunch...

              1.) Claims to have been working FOR this contractor for 8 years (*he's been there for 2 years, I already had the 411 before we even met, lol) I've done jobs for this contractor on/off for nearly 12 years as an independent installer.

              2.) He then mentioned; "I have my GC License" (a.k.a. General Contractor's License) - No, he has a "Tax Certificate" that allows him to do minimal repairs and installations... STRIKE #2

              3.) The last lie wasn't as "unbelievable" as the 1st two he's already sewn... But, he told the contractor he wanted to be paid by the sq. ft. - which is normally how I get paid to install flooring.

              Instead, he shows up at the shop (*as a $16 per hour guy does) jumps in the contractors truck, uses the contractors tools, and then bitched... Because, he's getting $16 per hour STILL!

              The contractor is trying to help this guy... But without his own truck, tools, and the ability to understand MORE than just HOW TO install flooring (*which he is good at doing) - he knows NOTHING about working by the job, piece work, or bidding jobs... He's got a long way to go before he's ready to go out on his own in my opinion.

              Ok, so what does that have to do with me???

              I bid the installation at $1.50 per foot (*the contractor only billed the install @ $1.75 per foot on this one - realtor/slum lord, lol) total square footage 697sq. ft. @ $1.50 = $1,045.50... for what would take me ALONE 2 - 2.5 days start to finish.

              Meanwhile, the other guy is 8 hours at $16 - he made $128 on Friday...

              Now, I am LOSING MONEY... and got paid, $175 for 6 hours (*on site) cause I showed up to install... 10 minute commute, no investment outside a little knee pain, and YEARS of EXPERIENCE.

              Thus, I went from bidding the gig at $1045.50 to (2) days at $175, and we installed over 500 sq ft Friday (nearly 70% of the job was done in 6 hours!!!)

              The neighbor was over bs'ing and said; "heck if you're getting $175 for 6 hours work, you have nothing to be upset about!"

              BS... in my mind a trainee just cost me an additional $700 that won't be billed out this week...

              But, the job prior just led to bidding (2) full bathroom tear outs and renovations from start to finish! (*There's a cosmic reciprocity, no doubt) And, I am grateful things are starting to flow a little better.

              Now... Do I want to install flooring?

              Or...

              Is the need of money driving the bus?

              Both... I still like (*almost love) building, installing, and renovating...

              The problem is "as stated above" - it feels like I am competing against youngsters in training wheels who want "X" - but haven't invested in the business mindset... They just want out from under their employer.

              I can relate, as I jumped into sub-contracting at 19 - 20 years old... And, I enjoyed the solitude, peace, and freedoms (*independence) of just the wife and I knocking out jobs together... I am (or was) a bit spoiled by her company - and, in her absence on those jobs - just the clean up and help she provided made a HUGE difference when I have to do all that work too!

              The "flipping gig" is STILL the 'X" whereas, bathrooms, flooring, pools, remodels, etc... That is to PAY the BILLS...

              I don't see too many regular jobs that will create SPEED... My argument to the client/employer/contractor has NEVER changed...

              You pay by the hour, you limit the worker's growth. If you pay by the sq. ft. Or by the job, that worker has an incentive to do the work, do it right, and get better money...

              However, consistency is a variable in such endeavors that seldom stays constant...

              Even scheduling can be a nightmare as one domino doesn't align - it offsets the whole flow...

              I just put a Ted Williams signed, framed, and authenticated Game Plate - Home Plate in a case... On lay-a-way, I think that purchase for $200 will fetch $800 - $1200 in ROI... So, I am looking into better items to flip...

              And, when CASH FLOW (*funds) permit - you can betch'ure arse... I'll be seeking to buy 100, 400, or 4000 items in one go too..

              To that extreme, I already need better inventory skills, warehousing, and to work towards that means to an end... Whether it's boats, cars, trucks, golf clubs, collectible, bone china... Or... Whatever we choose to flip, we need to increase returns (*cash flow) to get to phase 2.
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            Is it safe to say, correct if wrong, that these act as divisions within the agency? And any given division can be spun off because they can stand on their own? You've broken down function into a part of the agency which could go ahead without that part? Maybe I got this wrong.
            The primary reason... well one of the primary reasons is the tax advantage, another advantage is time keeping / billing - and then the abiiity to sell say the website aspect ( i have done this previously ) that included a customer list... but I had the same customer list across SEO, or Local SEO, or Social, Or Vinyl, Or large Format... so I sold a customer base, but not in its entirety if that makes sense

            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            In your eBay thread, one of the best ever here...you were on a learning curve too and showed us how to go from a little to REINVESTMENT and build.

            As to the difference between 40 into 250 vs. 50 to 100k a year...your thoughts on instead of small things, many sold vs. ONE more expensive thing flipped quickly, not at 3 to 4 times cost, but at a small 5 to 10% profit per item.
            I think this becomes a numbers game... if the goal is to make $100,000 in a years time and you are averaging $10 a sale... t doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize you have to sell 10,000 items 0r 27.4 items per day

            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            Say, instead of his start, he took that initial 1500 and bought ONE item to flip. For example, a small fishing boat. Instead of going for 4500 or 6000, the 3 to 4 times...it sold quickly for 1700, a 200 or 10% profit. Living near lakes he might find such a boat in Port St. Lucie and sell it in Buckhead Ridge. Say it cost 100 in gas to get it, he would then only have 100 net profit, but now has 1600 for the next buy.

            And the secret to these smaller % flips is to keep the cash in circulation, not storage. So, whatever the 1500 could buy...and it could be anything...and a boat on a trailer or a canoe or used ski boat...might be bulky, a pen or watch could fit in a pocket...so whatever 1500 buys, and there is demand for, it can go down the road for a small %, as long as there is profit, and by keeping it in circulation goes up the ladder.

            So instead of 40 to 250, that 1500 could be 2000 in a month with only one flip a week, and a 500 dollar profit the first month. Keeping it going the 2k could be 3k, and the 3 into 4 and after 6 months of smaller number of flips at higher prices, one would have a profit that could be drawn from (a monthly paycheck, and the capital to keep buying and selling). This is just another way to buy and sell, without an eBay store and without storage, and maybe, without the TIME too.
            This sounds good... look I made $200 on a deal... thats all fine and dandy... if $100,000 is the GOAL... you have to repeat that 9 more times in a week - and then it doesnt sound so good anymore. Its simply not sustainable, OR scalable.

            I would love to buy and sell iPhones all day long, the reality is, there simply is not the supply - that matches a financial need (100,00 in a year ).

            Another way of looking at this... this being sourcing of items to sell. I say I am in the business of SELLING, and NOT in the business of BUYING. If the process of BUYING takes longer than the process of SELLING - there is a fundamental issue with the model.

            The truth is you are searching 1 to 2 hours a day for a week or 2 to find the perfect boat to flip for that $200 - its not a slam bam thank you ma'am 6 hour in total transaction its 17 to 20 on the buy side, and 3 on the sell side. I may be incorrect with this but I think I bring up this point in the eBay thread, the time to acquire such an item ( iPhone ) in the end was not worth the time.

            BUT - being self employed... Time just doesnt count - YOUR time that is... we all make the correlation of time spent vs money made, I am guilty of this - I made reference to this in the eBay thread. But the reality... regardless of the time, at the end of the day, or for the sake of this discussion in regards to an amount of income in a year... how much time it took to acquire $100,000 in a years time matters not - the time spent is meaningless - especially if you enjoy every minute of it.

            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            And as far as products, quick ones. This post, THIS ONE, gives one an idea for a Hotsheet, about A and B regional shipping, which could be sold, turned into a short specialty report, used as a front end lead generator, to capture email and to find a market niche...several uses, as GaryV instructs in that very good deck you linked to...and turned into a quick build up.
            If we take you and I out of this... because the reality is you and I could type up this report, and have sales in days let alone hours. You and I have something, and that something is Authority.

            Just starting... you do NOT have authority, in any way shape or form.... you have to then BUILD authority. It is THIS step right here that takes the most time. Slapping up a lander page on WIX and trying to sell a hot sheet on... you can by all means start employing the strategy in the deck - and it will be weeks and into months before you might make your first sale. And notice I said "Might", because a new person seeing the end, and not the path to getting there is going to flood all of the social channels with "Learn to ship" - pitches and bring NO value, and display no amount of authority.

            I would say the most common breaking point in most peoples journey into Im let alone business in general... Authority - buy buy buy from me is not a message that makes sales.
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            • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
              I snipped from this thread, only to address this:


              Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

              The primary reason...

              I think this becomes a numbers game... if the goal is to make $100,000 in a years time and you are averaging $10 a sale... t doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize you have to sell 10,000 items 0r 27.4 items per day
              This sounds good... look I made $200 on a deal... thats all fine and dandy... if $100,000 is the GOAL... you have to repeat that 9 more times in a week - and then it doesnt sound so good anymore. Its simply not sustainable, OR scalable.


              Another way of looking at this... this being sourcing of items to sell. I say I am in the business of SELLING, and NOT in the business of BUYING. If the process of BUYING takes longer than the process of SELLING - there is a fundamental issue with the model.

              The truth is you are searching 1 to 2 hours a day for a week or 2 to find the perfect boat to flip for that $200 - its not a slam bam thank you ma'am 6 hour in total transaction its 17 to 20 on the buy side, and 3 on the sell side. I may be incorrect with this but I think I bring up this point in the eBay thread, the time to acquire such an item ( iPhone ) in the end was not worth the time.
              Thanks savidge4, let me give a different perspective on a numbers game, and using your eBay thread as the example...between Feb. 2019, and Feb. 2020, actually in 11 months, you exceeded 100k and that thread is a MASTER CLASS on ebaying. Some information in that post, be hard pressed to find elsewhere.

              Now my different take, first thing, the THING doesn't matter. I would never search for boats, or iPhones, or computers. The thing doesn't matter.

              I would do all of my searches in dollar amounts, so starting with 40, I would put 20 to 35 in my search parameters and that probably ten minutes to do Facebook local market, craigslist or my city's buy and sell facebook group, and also ten minutes on curb alerts.

              Every single trash collection day I can find a SOMETHING, that I know can sell locally for at leat 25 dollars, it is free. Done this many times, not even looking.

              So, say that 35 became 55, not a long stretch of the imagination, or I'm 15 up from original forty. Now my search parameters go up from 20/35 to 35 fifty...and I absolutely would be astounded that these first few transactions took more than a week, with a few hours of time invested, to get up to about 100. And then just keep going.

              Now, in the boat example, I came across that boat, NOT searching for boats...but for a SOMETHING in the 1200 to 1500 DOLLAR amounts. Knowing Art was a boater, lived near a lake and an ocean, the boat was one of DOZENS of items in that price range in craiglists and marketplaces near his zip code...less than half an hour of time.

              So, if I made 200 on the flip, my next search goes up and 1500 becomes a mid point, again, I never search for a specific thing, what I am looking for is stored value, the difference between market value, as determined by sold listings, in all the places...vs cost and if the gap (stored value) is there and then a flip can be easily made.

              OK, so you and your son wildly exceeded your expectations in the eBay thread.

              What I would do, after the 10k level is do a money split, knowing that every 10k in circulation is going to give me 500 profit for every transaction I do, it still is a numbers game, but with fewer sales...and when my brother was alive, we would visit the car shows and there was always some old geezer like us, with a car for sale...UNDER MARKET value, and collectors are of a different breed, if they WANT it, they will pay above market value too. So in these cases, a 15,000 dollar buy would often mean a 5k profit.

              I personally don't like to go above 4 figures, 9998 is what I consider the premium, for a lot of reasons. But any 10 k in circulation is going to return at least a 500 dollar or 5% profit, and if it can be flipped quickly, I take 3%, just to keep money out of storage.

              So, this is a different way than most buyers and sellers think and/or do. With the DOLLARS not things plan, there is never a limited supply, there is never a concern or worry about supply or supply chain, one deals with what is available today.

              And as for the time, you and I can compress time down...as experience allows us to do things faster than someone starting out, but even at the highest levels, 20-30 hours a week of WORK, has significant returns and beats the dickens out of actually working.

              So, AGREE, it is a numbers game, but I like the numbers to be in DOLLARS, not in THINGS.

              GordonJ
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              • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                Every single trash collection day I can find a SOMETHING, that I know can sell locally for at leat 25 dollars, it is free. Done this many times, not even looking.
                I do this all the time ( justso happen to be driving by and screech hit the brakes because I saw something ) not going to say regularly... its not like every Wednesday evening and I go out and look at garbage cans. However, there are specific Wednesday nights i do just this - and that would be bulk pickup days ( happens 3 times a year where I live )

                With this strategy of sorts... what i pick up are things like exercise equipment and furniture etc... BIG items.... Im not screeching the truck for a toaster.

                There is an absolute plethora of videos on YouTube in regard to obtaining and refinishing furniture for a profit - A good time to be looking for this stuff is the end of the month ( people moving ) and checking Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace. If you happen to live in a college town, knowing when Semester breaks take place it may be worth a visit or 2 to college rentals around that time - again furniture will be abundant.

                There is obviously a skill set of sorts in terms of repair etc... but refinishing is really not that hard - amazing what a coat of paint can do to an items potential resale value

                Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                So, say that 35 became 55, not a long stretch of the imagination, or I'm 15 up from original forty. Now my search parameters go up from 20/35 to 35 fifty...and I absolutely would be astounded that these first few transactions took more than a week, with a few hours of time invested, to get up to about 100. And then just keep going.

                Now, in the boat example, I came across that boat, NOT searching for boats...but for a SOMETHING in the 1200 to 1500 DOLLAR amounts. Knowing Art was a boater, lived near a lake and an ocean, the boat was one of DOZENS of items in that price range in craiglists and marketplaces near his zip code...less than half an hour of time.

                So, if I made 200 on the flip, my next search goes up and 1500 becomes a mid point, again, I never search for a specific thing, what I am looking for is stored value, the difference between market value, as determined by sold listings, in all the places...vs cost and if the gap (stored value) is there and then a flip can be easily made.

                OK, so you and your son wildly exceeded your expectations in the eBay thread.

                What I would do, after the 10k level is do a money split, knowing that every 10k in circulation is going to give me 500 profit for every transaction I do, it still is a numbers game, but with fewer sales...and when my brother was alive, we would visit the car shows and there was always some old geezer like us, with a car for sale...UNDER MARKET value, and collectors are of a different breed, if the WANT it, they will pay above market value too. So in these cases, a 15,000 dollar buy would often mean a 5k profit.

                I personally don't like to go above 4 figures, 9998 is what I consider the premium, for a lot of reasons. But any 10 k in circulation is going to return at least a 500 dollar or 5% profit, and if it can be flipped quickly, I take 3%, just to keep money out of storage.

                So, this is a different way than most buyers and sellers think and/or do. With the DOLLARS not things plan, there is never a limited supply, there is never a concern or worry about supply or supply chain, one deals with what is available today.

                And as for the time, you and I can compress time down...as experience allows us to do things faster than someone starting out, but even at the highest levels, 20-30 hours a week of WORK, has significant returns and beats the dickens out of actually working.

                So, AGREE, it is a numbers game, but I like the numbers to be in DOLLARS, not in THINGS.
                "Stored Value" in a fairly direct round about way translates to the ability to buy low and sell high. And You are correct I dont care what it is I sell.

                Where you and I are maybe bumping heads here... is I believe in the 3X principle. This equation is utilized in many aspects of my professional life. When I bill out employee time, its billed out at 3X. When I buy things to sell, I will be selling at a minimum of 3X or its not worth my time to buy the item to begin with.

                If I am buying a $1500 something - after any fees or shipping or renovation or whatever I am walking away with nothing less than $4500 - $1.00 in and $3.00 out.

                We are discussing speed here... less moving parts and all of that. $1300 in and $1500 out 10 times, is $2000 - and lets say that takes a month - vs buying $1500 of product and selling in the same amount of time ( 1 month) and pulling at a minimum of the initial $1500 and an additional $3000.

                A some what parallel example of this - the $4000, 4000 piece shirt buy Sold 50 some of them in less than a week. selling for right at $20 "Profit" after fees and shipping and COG and what have you, by the end of November ( estimate ) we should have the initial COG back and the remaining 3800 is wealth building - Granted this is a bit of an extreme example - but in MY reality it isnt - its about a norm.

                So maybe a better example, my son goes out and buys 100 coffee mugs over the course of a month - sells roughly ( on average ) 3 a day ( of the sourced mugs - he sells mugs he has designed as well )... about 4 to 6 hours of buy time and a cost of $1.00 each and average after fees and blah blah averages $17 in return ( $1.00 COG and $16.00 Profit ). Just this portion of what he sells he is at $510 a month and all in about 10 hours a month? His production mugs on a bad month is about 3X of this...and as we get into what refers to as "Mug Months" these numbers start looking 10X.

                So a bad month for the young man is $2000 ( custom and resale mugs ) and Oct, Nov, Dec, into Jan can get into the $5000+ range.

                As much as it doesnt matter what you sell... these 2 examples start to indicate maybe it does.

                I know I cant source Nike shoes on a consistent regular... To get into these numbers with clothing - is straight up time consuming - The time difference between listing a T-Shirt vs a Mug... OH MY

                The THING does matter - on a whole lot of levels, How fast can it sell. How easy is it to store - Mugs and storage not a problem... Clothing maybe smaller / thinner easier to store, but you have to pay attention to environment and longer storage brings in the possibility of mold etc - its a thing. The cost of packing materials is a thing... clothing if you watch the big boys on YouTube... is generally in a clear bag... and then a shipping bag.

                We have reverted or strategically converted depending how one looks at this from Going all in on Brand and packaging etc to using any and every opportunity to use USPS free packaging materials - just in my sons little business, saving a dollar an item? 400 items monthly? ( $4800 yearly ) It adds up quick.

                Looking at the Shirt deal... 1 shirt packaging cost $.48 - if the customer buys 2? Packaging drops to $0.00 ( weighs over a pound goes into a Priority flat rate or Priority envelope )

                In the scenario... of building equity... building wealth... there is a balance to be had. 80% of all transactions on eBay are $20 or less. - Im not about to say sell under that thresh hold - but I can look at our inventory and say that 30% meet that criteria

                There are somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5 BILLION items listed on eBay... On an average there are roughly 100 Million visitors monthly.

                60% of BUYERS on eBay are MALE - of the Females using the site the strongest demographic is 45 to 54. People 65 and older statistically basically DO NOT use the platform.

                80% of items sold are NEW - Ill type that in again - 80% of items sold are NEW

                about 40% of all items listed on eBay are sold - this is the kicker Statistic - of the 1.5 BILLION only 90 Million will sell - 72 Million will sell for under $20 and 18 Million will be above $21.00

                80% of items sold include free shipping

                90%+ of items sold have white backgrounds

                All of these numbers from a platform that has 4.7% market share

                Again turning to the topic of speed... the WHAT matters - having WHAT's in the sweet spot that sells the most - that is readily available.

                You really get into the rabbit hole of those on eBay that buy and sell.. and you start paying attention to profit margins... Yeah Chris ( Daily Refinement ) is a heavy hitter - 5's of 10's of thousands of items listed at a 40 to 50% profit margin - SHEAR VOLUME compared to $1.00 in and $3.00 out thats really 1/4 the work for the same amount of profit at the end of the day.

                Its these kinds of numbers that make decisions for me.. i have said it before and right here I will say it again Take YOU out of the buying and selling equation, and let the numbers dictate. When you deep dive the numbers - YES its about "Stored Value" but its also understanding the MARKET... WHO buys, and what they will buy and for how much... one off sales here and there is all fine and dandy... but this is more than that.. this is a business, a way to generate wealth at silly levels with minimal work.

                I personally look at sell through rate first and foremost... How FAST will something potentially sell - and thats only after it has checked the profit level rquired that i even bother - Is it new vs used is another consideration - NEW sells faster ( generally speaking )
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                • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                  I can't argue with your math or reasoning, so you certainly have your processes down pat.

                  At issue in this thread, is SPEED, and what I call slop and mess to you is just doing business.

                  No Employees. No warehouse. No Storage facility. No supply chain. Unlimited dollars in circulation with under market prices. For the most part NO SHIPPING, not USPS, UPS, FedEX, or FREIGHT. One popular husband and wife team, who teach eBay, and have a pretty big following...he even has a course on shipping by FREIGHT.

                  Good for him. Good for all who do whatever it takes to make it work.

                  I'm not going to do it. And the speed is there, of course, a learning curve too...it goes back around to INTENT. You with 14 and maybe soon, ONLY 12 businesses have a process and methodology that works for you, and maybe for all who follow it and WANT to build a bigger business with employees, buildings, land, etc. I admire you for doing all that, certainly inspirational and aspiration to many Warriors.

                  I only know, in USA, there are on any given day BILLIONS of dollars of Used stuff being sold each and every day. And there is a gap between what someone over here will pay for it and what someone over there pays for it.

                  Now as regarding Warriors, especially those that Need/Want WORKING CAPITAL, so as to invest in their IM, and don't want to build an ecom or buy/sell biz...I believe finding dollars in storage is the fastest way to RAISE working capital, without having to get involved in any business really. And if they only do it for 90 to 180 days as a side hustle, they will have the capital to build their funnels, ecom stores, eBay stores with a lot of items and buy in bulk.

                  So, no butting of heads here, just different ways we approach this thing.

                  Less moving parts--more fulfilling for me.

                  What we provide to the WF is a contrast of business ideas, and of course, any Warrior can choose what they want...which has always been my point...

                  What do you want? Why? And then the HOW is more likely to come into focus, and for some it will be building a big biz, and for others, it is remaining a small potatoes operator who can crank up the money machine at will.

                  Both good philosophies, wouldn't you say?

                  GordonJ

                  P.S. What we have in common: we both like what we do, enjoy our work, do (mostly) whatever we want, and think that work is not the dreaded WERK!! of a Maynard G. Krebs. We both think work is fulfilling and more or less "fun", and that money is a result of DOING. The process or particulars of our journey, may or may not be of use to others, we don't have any control over what Warriors do with what we share.


                  big
                  Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

                  I do this all the time ( justso happen to be driving by and screech hit the brakes because I saw something ) not going to say regularly... its not like every Wednesday evening and I go out and look at garbage cans. However, there are specific Wednesday nights i do just this - and that would be bulk pickup days ( happens 3 times a year where I live )

                  With this strategy of sorts... what i pick up are things like exercise equipment and furniture etc... BIG items.... Im not screeching the truck for a toaster.

                  There is an absolute plethora of videos on YouTube in regard to obtaining and refinishing furniture for a profit - A good time to be looking for this stuff is the end of the month ( people moving ) and checking Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace. If you happen to live in a college town, knowing when Semester breaks take place it may be worth a visit or 2 to college rentals around that time - again furniture will be abundant.

                  There is obviously a skill set of sorts in terms of repair etc... but refinishing is really not that hard - amazing what a coat of paint can do to an items potential resale value



                  "Stored Value" in a fairly direct round about way translates to the ability to buy low and sell high. And You are correct I dont care what it is I sell.

                  Where you and I are maybe bumping heads here... is I believe in the 3X principle. This equation is utilized in many aspects of my professional life. When I bill out employee time, its billed out at 3X. When I buy things to sell, I will be selling at a minimum of 3X or its not worth my time to buy the item to begin with.

                  If I am buying a $1500 something - after any fees or shipping or renovation or whatever I am walking away with nothing less than $4500 - $1.00 in and $3.00 out.

                  We are discussing speed here... less moving parts and all of that. $1300 in and $1500 out 10 times, is $2000 - and lets say that takes a month - vs buying $1500 of product and selling in the same amount of time ( 1 month) and pulling at a minimum of the initial $1500 and an additional $3000.

                  A some what parallel example of this - the $4000, 4000 piece shirt buy Sold 50 some of them in less than a week. selling for right at $20 "Profit" after fees and shipping and COG and what have you, by the end of November ( estimate ) we should have the initial COG back and the remaining 3800 is wealth building - Granted this is a bit of an extreme example - but in MY reality it isnt - its about a norm.

                  So maybe a better example, my son goes out and buys 100 coffee mugs over the course of a month - sells roughly ( on average ) 3 a day ( of the sourced mugs - he sells mugs he has designed as well )... about 4 to 6 hours of buy time and a cost of $1.00 each and average after fees and blah blah averages $17 in return ( $1.00 COG and $16.00 Profit ). Just this portion of what he sells he is at $510 a month and all in about 10 hours a month? His production mugs on a bad month is about 3X of this...and as we get into what refers to as "Mug Months" these numbers start looking 10X.

                  So a bad month for the young man is $2000 ( custom and resale mugs ) and Oct, Nov, Dec, into Jan can get into the $5000+ range.

                  As much as it doesnt matter what you sell... these 2 examples start to indicate maybe it does.

                  I know I cant source Nike shoes on a consistent regular... To get into these numbers with clothing - is straight up time consuming - The time difference between listing a T-Shirt vs a Mug... OH MY

                  The THING does matter - on a whole lot of levels, How fast can it sell. How easy is it to store - Mugs and storage not a problem... Clothing maybe smaller / thinner easier to store, but you have to pay attention to environment and longer storage brings in the possibility of mold etc - its a thing. The cost of packing materials is a thing... clothing if you watch the big boys on YouTube... is generally in a clear bag... and then a shipping bag.

                  We have reverted or strategically converted depending how one looks at this from Going all in on Brand and packaging etc to using any and every opportunity to use USPS free packaging materials - just in my sons little business, saving a dollar an item? 400 items monthly? ( $4800 yearly ) It adds up quick.

                  Looking at the Shirt deal... 1 shirt packaging cost $.48 - if the customer buys 2? Packaging drops to $0.00 ( weighs over a pound goes into a Priority flat rate or Priority envelope )

                  In the scenario... of building equity... building wealth... there is a balance to be had. 80% of all transactions on eBay are $20 or less. - Im not about to say sell under that thresh hold - but I can look at our inventory and say that 30% meet that criteria

                  There are somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5 BILLION items listed on eBay... On an average there are roughly 100 Million visitors monthly.

                  60% of BUYERS on eBay are MALE - of the Females using the site the strongest demographic is 45 to 54. People 65 and older statistically basically DO NOT use the platform.

                  80% of items sold are NEW - Ill type that in again - 80% of items sold are NEW

                  about 40% of all items listed on eBay are sold - this is the kicker Statistic - of the 1.5 BILLION only 90 Million will sell - 72 Million will sell for under $20 and 18 Million will be above $21.00

                  80% of items sold include free shipping

                  90%+ of items sold have white backgrounds

                  All of these numbers from a platform that has 4.7% market share

                  Again turning to the topic of speed... the WHAT matters - having WHAT's in the sweet spot that sells the most - that is readily available.

                  You really get into the rabbit hole of those on eBay that buy and sell.. and you start paying attention to profit margins... Yeah Chris ( Daily Refinement ) is a heavy hitter - 5's of 10's of thousands of items listed at a 40 to 50% profit margin - SHEAR VOLUME compared to $1.00 in and $3.00 out thats really 1/4 the work for the same amount of profit at the end of the day.

                  Its these kinds of numbers that make decisions for me.. i have said it before and right here I will say it again Take YOU out of the buying and selling equation, and let the numbers dictate. When you deep dive the numbers - YES its about "Stored Value" but its also understanding the MARKET... WHO buys, and what they will buy and for how much... one off sales here and there is all fine and dandy... but this is more than that.. this is a business, a way to generate wealth at silly levels with minimal work.

                  I personally look at sell through rate first and foremost... How FAST will something potentially sell - and thats only after it has checked the profit level rquired that i even bother - Is it new vs used is another consideration - NEW sells faster ( generally speaking )
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                  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
                    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                    Now as regarding Warriors, especially those that Need/Want WORKING CAPITAL, so as to invest in their IM, and don't want to build an ecom or buy/sell biz...I believe finding dollars in storage is the fastest way to RAISE working capital, without having to get involved in any business really. And if they only do it for 90 to 180 days as a side hustle, they will have the capital to build their funnels, ecom stores, eBay stores with a lot of items and buy in bulk.
                    So now we are looking at intent... are you going to make a run at eBay as the vehicle to wealth building... OR are selling to boost start capital... and these are 2 different mind sets.

                    The reason I am actual product heavy - in regards to my communication here ( WF ) is because of the lowest of low start-up costs ( $40 ) AND the skill bases learned in the process.

                    Titles are titles are titles... the relationship of an image or images and how this effects sales, learning how to overcome an amount of friction in the purchase process using descriptions, and pricing, are universal skills.

                    I dont care if its eBay, or a funnel, or selling info products - the same 4 skills apply.

                    And what gets interesting ( I think ) is the speed in which you learn these skills on the eBay platform as an example is mind numbing ( as long as there is someone in your circle of influence that is telling you the importance of these 4 skill sets )

                    Once you understand these 4 variables ( skill sets ) all thats needed is to learn how to get traffic - A skill set that is removed when using a platform. If I was writing the laws / Rules - for the sake of getting paid while educating yourself, it would be required to sell product

                    And this has absolutely nothing to do with me and my multiple business' These are the skills sets my son is learning... these are the skill sets Art is learning... and I am sure Art understands when he ventures onto selling info products.. these skill sets carry straight across.

                    but again flipping to get cash.. vs flipping to build wealth are 2 opposite ends of the spectrum.

                    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

                    P.S. What we have in common: we both like what we do, enjoy our work, do (mostly) whatever we want, and think that work is not the dreaded WERK!! of a Maynard G. Krebs. We both think work is fulfilling and more or less "fun", and that money is a result of DOING. The process or particulars of our journey, may or may not be of use to others, we don't have any control over what Warriors do with what we share.
                    Absolutely - enjoy what you do 90% of the time... and who gives a rip... much like giving advice / letting loose with experience... I give the best advice insight I can... and what happens after that... just not my problem. I am invested in MY outcomes, and cant be concerned with the outcomes of others. Now, if you are right in front of me... I then have an interest... I can then control a bit more and say "hey try this, or lets go talk with X and see how we do that"
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    Persistence... or being relentless is definitely a discipline, especially when entering the learning curve or acquiring new knowledge, skills, or honing a new craft.

    Time (the learning curve) seldom produces instant gratification (speed) which is what most people are accustomed to... Once they settle in to a job, career, or a business.

    There have been businesses whereas funding wasn't at all the problem... having cash flow was important, just as is knowing; what the time and costs are to operate a profitable venture.

    I'm of the philosophy; "let the business pay for itself" which requires basic knowledge and planning...

    But, as mentioned... the plan often changes, requiring the ability to pivot or change focus. So, as the plan comes to fruition the goals often remain the same, but the route get obstructed and finding alternate routes to "X" becomes a discipline or (persistence) to overcome the resistance...

    Like Gordon's mention of Harvey Brody, some people look at the task like scaling a steep face mountain and the perceptive view is an uphill battle...whereas, others see the task from above and work in reverse order ( reverse engineering) the GOAL or "X" and PLAN accordingly.

    Either way, "money loves speed" and when everything lines up and the job or task flows as it should, other opportunities often arise.

    I knocked out 500 sq foot of laminate flooring in 6 hours yesterday, 2 hours of that was all prep work... or... that same job would've took twice as long to install that amount of flooring.

    Point being, anyone installing that for the 1st time... Most likely wouldn't know beforehand to prep everything...

    The same principles apply online... Knowing the path before you enter, is the knowledge... But, EXPERIENCE is what gets it done efficiently.

    Might throw in a side dish of stubbornness, impatience, and setting too high an expectation when starting a new path... I know for a fact, with the right tools, knowledge, and skills ANYTHING is possible... Just don't quit!

    If anything "pivot" but maintain sight on the target. I already KNOW my experience with eBay, eCommerce, or any selling platform in similar fashion that sells physical good and wares was minimal upon entry... So, I didn't elude to thinking that venture would put $100,000 per month in a bank account anytime soon...

    But, I can see the opportunity is there to scale operations to those levels. It's going to take time, persistency (relentlessness), and the mindset to reinvest the funds until the payout is big enough to hit the preconceived goal(s).

    In the end, whether the goal is reached in the time projected or not... the END GOAL shouldn't change.

    If anything the ability to maintain the focus while developing a "work-a-round" to avoid pitfalls, setbacks, and delays... That takes YEARS... just like the example of prep work before install... To the inexperienced, you'll learn to prep or struggle later... There are no shortcuts, just the ability to see the path ahead!
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Valid point on knowing what the prep work would be, gained from experience, however, with Internet marketing, there is more than enough examples to follow. YouTube alone, now the top search engine for many...gives any Online/Internet Marketing idea, full details on the prep.

      Everything you need to know about eBay, etsy, Amazon...thousands of how to videos available for free to accelerate the learning.

      In the 6 hours your experienced flooring knowledge allowed you to finish faster than an inexperienced one, I bet one could:

      Start an etsy store. Free to start, free tutorials by the platform oh how and what to do, how to use their tools, and of course, some upgrades. Same for ebay. Or Amazon, or Facebook Marketplace.

      Sure putting the knowledge into action, say like with WIX, another free starting point,
      it takes a few minutes to set up, and then maybe a couple of hours of HANDS ON EXPERIENCE running through the video tutorials.
      Then maybe a check with YouTube and find some other experienced folk to show some of the secrets or inner workings.

      I guess, the six hours used to learn would give most Warriors a working knowledge of:

      Websites, platforms, markets. And then there is DOING IT. So, again to WIX, one day to set it up, and a week of daily doing it, should afford anyone enough experience to bring a product to the market. IM learning curves can be compressed via others, who have already made the mistakes and inform us of what to be aware of.

      As to speed to PROFITS. With all the shared experiences available, it does indeed come back to the choices made at the start.

      And if one chooses a many moving parts business, they set that learning curve upfront. , Even in buying and selling, it is determined by the INTENT, or want.

      My point to most Warriors is, choose a simple profit plan to start, and to do so quickly, and one with the least amount of slop and mess. By getting to profits sooner, the Warrior gets that "instant gratification", and the motivation to grow it, as opposed to grinding away at it with little to no payoff, but deferred to the future.

      Nothing wrong with doing it that way. No right or wrong way, it goes back to what is wanted and why...then taking the fastest path to making that happen.

      So, a fast profit Warrior, I believe, doesn't need the persistence, rather derives motivation from faster profits.

      Also, profits sooner than later, allow for scaling up faster too.

      GordonJ

      P.S. For the Warrior wanting that "measly" 20k a month, they could do it via ONE SALE a month, 40 sales, or 20,000 per month, which one or combo has the least slop and mess in it?

      Also, as an afterthought, if you had taken a video camera to the job, filmed it, and gave the newbie a lesson in PREP, you would have an easy to make product you could sell or post to YouTube to build cred, get some followers. With all the free Video software, you could time lapse that job into about a 10 minute video, and emphasize the PREP part of it. As savidge4 so often tells us, DOCUMENT the journey, I'd bet there would be a few who would love to see what you did to reduce the time to ONLY six hours, eh?

      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      Persistence... or being relentless is definitely a discipline, especially when entering the learning curve or acquiring new knowledge, skills, or honing a new craft.

      Time (the learning curve) seldom produces instant gratification (speed) which is what most people are accustomed to... Once they settle in to a job, career, or a business.

      There have been businesses whereas funding wasn't at all the problem... having cash flow was important, just as is knowing; what the time and costs are to operate a profitable venture.

      I'm of the philosophy; "let the business pay for itself" which requires basic knowledge and planning...

      But, as mentioned... the plan often changes, requiring the ability to pivot or change focus. So, as the plan comes to fruition the goals often remain the same, but the route get obstructed and finding alternate routes to "X" becomes a discipline or (persistence) to overcome the resistance...

      Like Gordon's mention of Harvey Brody, some people look at the task like scaling a steep face mountain and the perceptive view is an uphill battle...whereas, others see the task from above and work in reverse order ( reverse engineering) the GOAL or "X" and PLAN accordingly.

      Either way, "money loves speed" and when everything lines up and the job or task flows as it should, other opportunities often arise.

      I knocked out 500 sq foot of laminate flooring in 6 hours yesterday, 2 hours of that was all prep work... or... that same job would've took twice as long to install that amount of flooring.

      Point being, anyone installing that for the 1st time... Most likely wouldn't know beforehand to prep everything...

      The same principles apply online... Knowing the path before you enter, is the knowledge... But, EXPERIENCE is what gets it done efficiently.

      Might throw in a side dish of stubbornness, impatience, and setting too high an expectation when starting a new path... I know for a fact, with the right tools, knowledge, and skills ANYTHING is possible... Just don't quit!

      If anything "pivot" but maintain sight on the target. I already KNOW my experience with eBay, eCommerce, or any selling platform in similar fashion that sells physical good and wares was minimal upon entry... So, I didn't elude to thinking that venture would put $100,000 per month in a bank account anytime soon...

      But, I can see the opportunity is there to scale operations to those levels. It's going to take time, persistency (relentlessness), and the mindset to reinvest the funds until the payout is big enough to hit the preconceived goal(s).

      In the end, whether the goal is reached in the time projected or not... the END GOAL shouldn't change.

      If anything the ability to maintain the focus while developing a "work-a-round" to avoid pitfalls, setbacks, and delays... That takes YEARS... just like the example of prep work before install... To the inexperienced, you'll learn to prep or struggle later... There are no shortcuts, just the ability to see the path ahead!
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Art

    Different ideas of what persistence means. Nothing to do with being relentless. More in line with having the ability put in the amount of time something requires. If something takes 12-24 months to get going and get working correctly. You budget time and money to last the amount of time needed.

    If something will take 5 to ten years plan around that timeframe.

    I don't believe anything is possible there are those things I can do with the right tools time and other resources. But there is a long list of things I know are outside my abilities. So I am not going to waste time setting goals to do them.

    I also know I'm stubborn and learn by making and fixing mistakes so I won't do anything that doesn't allow for a lot of mistakes to be made along the way. Each time I do something I make fewer mistakes or get a little better results. Over and over.

    Starting where I can allow myself to be incompetent where I have never done something before
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Who has never done anything to earn money but work a job.
    I see that posted here often and don't understand the point. If you have worked a job and been self supporting - you are miles ahead of many newbies here.

    Working a 'job' means you get out of bed and show up on time - you do the work required and do it well enough to keep the job. It means you are a contributing member of society rather than someone living in dad's basement or mom's garage and talking about getting rich.

    When I started working online I found I had more self discipline than I gave myself credit for. That was not from a superior mentality or personality....it came from years of working increasingly difficult and demanding JOBS.

    There is a tendency at times on this forum to diss working people as having 'low paying' jobs and 'repetitive, boring work' but that's only for those with lower education and expectations.

    So we have ambitious folks with little self discipline not wanting to invest any money - but having a goal of 'money next month'. They ask for 'step by step' but if you give them 20 exact steps, quite a few of those people will skip a few steps because it sounds 'boring'. Another group will diligently do steps 1,2,3 and give up.

    The most successful online marketers I've known had JOBS and were pursing their own business in their 'off' hours until that business paid enough and was stable enough for them to leave their day jobs.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Thanks Kay.

      It might say more about Warriors than anything else, fact is, most of the people I know like their jobs. Some have had them 20, 30 years. They aren't unhappy, miserable.

      They work, and DON'T hate it, may not LOVE it, but it isn't killing them either. I bet a real survey would show that a majority are NOT all that unhappy with their work.

      But, the reason those sort of folks come here, is, THE REASON they come here.

      I never hated a job, cause if I did, I never lasted longer than a week (also explains why I've had so many of them). Smartest Internet Marketers begin as you state, part-time, building knowledge and skills before telling the boss to jump in the lake.

      GordonJ


      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I see that posted here often and don't understand the point. If you have worked a job and been self supporting - you are miles ahead of many newbies here.

      Working a 'job' means you get out of bed and show up on time - you do the work required and do it well enough to keep the job. It means you are a contributing member of society rather than someone living in dad's basement or mom's garage and talking about getting rich.

      When I started working online I found I had more self discipline than I gave myself credit for. That was not from a superior mentality or personality....it came from years of working increasingly difficult and demanding JOBS.

      There is a tendency at times on this forum to diss working people as having 'low paying' jobs and 'repetitive, boring work' but that's only for those with lower education and expectations.

      So we have ambitious folks with little self discipline not wanting to invest any money - but having a goal of 'money next month'. They ask for 'step by step' but if you give them 20 exact steps, quite a few of those people will skip a few steps because it sounds 'boring'. Another group will diligently do steps 1,2,3 and give up.

      The most successful online marketers I've known had JOBS and were pursing their own business in their 'off' hours until that business paid enough and was stable enough for them to leave their day jobs.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    Gordon

    With the skills art has. There is probably a range of items he can buy or almost get for free that he can fix clean or paint. Then flip!and make a profit.

    Then he could pick up odd jobs helping people clean garages or haul stuff away. And possibly get many items for free that he can sell. On eBay or Facebook market place in or where appropriate.

    So the items he then looks for are those items he knows would sell for far more if he just does something he already knows how to do to increase the value.

    I know you do some version of this that you mentioned years ago.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      One of my biggest hits, was all about buying and selling, and this before the Internet existed, sold via eensy-teensy tiny classified ads and printed and mailed with USPS.

      I took, from a printer going out of business, two binding machines, for some work I did for him, he brought them over-installed in basement. One was a foot operated hole puncher, the other was a spiral binding machine, and most of my off line products sold this way, if they weren't saddle stiched.

      98% is my best guess, for those who tried it (buying and selling), got at least their money back or made a few hundred to a couple of thousand dollars before they left it behind.

      2% or less, followed my advice, BUILD NETWORKS.

      At that time, I had a bike guy.
      A watch guy.
      A car, engine, transmission guy.
      An ephemera guy. A stamps and coin guy.

      An appliance guy, a sewing machine person.

      All of these were not only experts, they were BUYERS and sellers of their respective things.

      A good show to watch is PAWN STARS, and when Rick and team didn't know, they called in the experts. That is why one builds networks.

      A well known IMer bought a bike for 20 bucks at a yard sell, just passing by, and sold it on the way home to a bike shop for 60, and as he said, it was like getting free gas money for his trip.

      I once had expertise in all things Golf. But when it came time to make money quickly, I didn't do what I knew, I looked for stored value, and back then it was a lot harder than simply searching eBay sold listings and current markets. That is where the network of experts came in.

      I don't know a thing about pens, or watches, although I've had several thousand dollar transactions with both...ONLY because I took the time to build relationships with the experts who did. And much of the time, they became the buyers too, because they had lists of customers who bought from them.

      Today, with the Internet being as it is, knowing or having experience in my mind doesn't matter, what I want to know is DEMAND...and Stored Value. The what, really doesn't matter. I don't know how (or want to) to use a shopsmith tool, but I know for a fact, I can find them with a lot of stored value, even if they need to be "parted" out.

      So, sure, maybe skills help, but expertise is readily available, and knowledge in the brain beats learning something new, but when it comes to flipping personal or corporate property, simply stand in the gap between supply and demand and charge your toll.

      GordonJ

      Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

      Gordon

      With the skills art has. There is probably a range of items he can buy or almost get for free that he can fix clean or paint. Then flip!and make a profit.

      Then he could pick up odd jobs helping people clean garages or haul stuff away. And possibly get many items for free that he can sell. On eBay or Facebook market place in or where appropriate.

      So the items he then looks for are those items he knows would sell for far more if he just does something he already knows how to do to increase the value.

      I know you do some version of this that you mentioned years ago.
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  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
    So this is where you lot are hiding?

    Ok, good subject.

    Persistence vs speed, lol there really isn't any.

    Sure Musk as a teenager developed a payment method and sold it some time later for $132 million, (Paypal) and then gambled it all and put it into EV,s, Space and l think Solar panels, (which he sold some time later).

    He got close to bankruptcy and is now worth almost half a trillion.

    So he got rich pretty quickly, but did he plan it all? Probably, but it doesn't really help us much.

    I have tried a lot of things, T-shirts l think about 5 years, hand painted glassware a few years and so forth, but they all failed, not really the product but in how hard it was to get to market, (the US is much bigger than AU).

    But it all lead to stock market trading, which has no barriers, but is full of traps, (some fatal).

    And l am finally starting to get a handle on it, but it took me 5 years to do it.

    Could l have got to where l am now quicker, not really, some things l had to learn and others l had to discover when l was ready.

    And l had to take some big risks in how l researched it, which are or have paid off.

    And l have had several times even with some good breaks considered giving up. But this time l cannot give up since there isn't anything else better that l could try.

    Or it takes the time it takes, and most of this year has been a lot of hard work in streamlining how l research stocks and scan the stock market.


    So sure ask me 5 years ago am l rich, and l would say no, ask me now and you will get no again, ask me in 5 years time, hmmm.

    So at least for me, Per, vs Speed is an abstract concept that has no meaning or it all takes as long as it takes, and sure it tends to take too ..... long, but yeah least l will get there in the end, and deserve to end up on a tropical resort sipping a cocktail while watching the sun set and think of loftier goals.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      I like to post in mind forum, fewer drive-bys, trolls and one liners, thanks for checking this out.

      And as you say: it all takes as long as it takes

      There is a lot of truth in this ^^^^ This is what the discussion is all about. What my issue has always been, in the context of the Warrior Forum, is the IT part of the idea.

      IT, being a medical doctor is at least a 8 to 10 year time investment, a lawyer, probably 6 years.

      A barber, a two month local school. And my contention is, and has been since day one of WF, most don't have a clear IT, only a foggy notion of something they think they want, like financial freedom or the ever nebulous success.

      Again, in the Context of people coming here, mostly with an IT want to make money with Internet Marketing. And there are scores of ways to do it.

      I see four distinct Warriors, maybe some splinters...the Desperate, seeking money to pay next month's rent. The it, as has been pointed out in the thread is a fantastical dream.

      Second are employed folk who may hate their jobs, may just dislike their work or boss and are looking to "escape the rat race", the sooner the better.

      Third are those with either job losses, pending loss, or a life disruptive incident. They aren't desperate YET, but could be if they don't find something pretty quick.

      And lastly, experience who wants to share their thoughts, ideas, strategies and methods which they think can HELP the other 3+ groups of Warriors.

      Desperation makes bad quick decisions.
      The employed, may take a little time to peruse the WF, looking for a "glove fit" idea.
      Income replacement, sort of falls in between these.

      I have a high school classmate, someone you may have run across in your stock journey, he is Dennis Gartman, and deals and teaches a lot about commodities. My opinion is you have to have a dose of gambler's blood for those, but safe, slow growth, well, isn't that the Oliver Chace way, Berkshire Hathaway. W. Buffet is one of the richest men in the world with his buy and hold, slow growth ways of the world.

      Then there are day traders and oh geez, the ever present CRYPTO crowd. I prefer the lottery.

      Now, if you had Warren Buffet, or even Dennis Gartman early on, and he was a mentor to you, much like what Alen Sultanic is doing TODAY, with Nothing Held Back FACEBOOK group...and you listened to your mentor, after establishing an IT, and they were in synch with your IT...

      Then my premise you would have accelerated the growth and compressed the TIME it took you to get where you are today.

      But those Warriors with a shaky, foggy, idea, not sure of the it...my advice has always been WHAT DO YOU BRING? So, an assessment is the starting point, then evaluation of that, and a Plan Of Action, and within that plan identifying the shortest distance between now and then.

      Thanks for finding this lot,

      A lot of smart savvy people (like yourself) are here to help, and learn too.

      GordonJ


















      Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

      So this is where you lot are hiding?

      Ok, good subject.

      Persistence vs speed, lol there really isn't any.

      Sure Musk as a teenager developed a payment method and sold it some time later foTr $132 million, (Paypal) and then gambled it all and put it into EV,s, Space and l think Solar panels, (which he sold some time later).

      He got close to bankruptcy and is now worth almost half a trillion.

      So he got rich pretty quickly, but did he plan it all? Probably, but it doesn't really help us much.

      I have tried a lot of things, T-shirts l think about 5 years, hand painted glassware a few years and so forth, but they all failed, not really the product but in how hard it was to get to market, (the US is much bigger than AU).

      But it all lead to stock market trading, which has no barriers, but is full of traps, (some fatal).

      And l am finally starting to get a handle on it, but it took me 5 years to do it.

      Could l have got to where l am now quicker, not really, some things l had to learn and others l had to discover when l was ready.

      And l had to take some big risks in how l researched it, which are or have paid off.

      And l have had several times even with some good breaks considered giving up. But this time l cannot give up since there isn't anything else better that l could try.

      Or it takes the time it takes, and most of this year has been a lot of hard work in streamlining how l research stocks and scan the stock market.


      So sure ask me 5 years ago am l rich, and l would say no, ask me now and you will get no again, ask me in 5 years time, hmmm.

      So at least for me, Per, vs Speed is an abstract concept that has no meaning or it all takes as long as it takes, and sure it tends to take too ..... long, but yeah least l will get there in the end, and deserve to end up on a tropical resort sipping a cocktail while watching the sun set and think of loftier goals.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        And as you say: it all takes as long as it takes

        There is a lot of truth in this ^^^^ This is what the discussion is all about. What my issue has always been, in the context of the Warrior Forum, is the IT part of the idea.

        IT, being a medical doctor is at least a 8 to 10 year time investment, a lawyer, probably 6 years.

        A barber, a two month local school. And my contention is, and has been since day one of WF, most don't have a clear IT, only a foggy notion of something they think they want, like financial freedom or the ever nebulous success.

        Again, in the Context of people coming here, mostly with an IT want to make money with Internet Marketing. And there are scores of ways to do it.

        I see four distinct Warriors, maybe some splinters...the Desperate, seeking money to pay next month's rent. The it, as has been pointed out in the thread is a fantastical dream.

        Second are employed folk who may hate their jobs, may just dislike their work or boss and are looking to "escape the rat race", the sooner the better.

        Third are those with either job losses, pending loss, or a life disruptive incident. They aren't desperate YET, but could be if they don't find something pretty quick.

        And lastly, experience who wants to share their thoughts, ideas, strategies and methods which they think can HELP the other 3+ groups of Warriors.

        Desperation makes bad quick decisions.
        The employed, may take a little time to peruse the WF, looking for a "glove fit" idea.
        Income replacement, sort of falls in between these.


        I have a high school classmate, someone you may have run across in your stock journey, he is Dennis Gartman, and deals and teaches a lot about commodities. My opinion is you have to have a dose of gambler's blood for those, but safe, slow growth, well, isn't that the Oliver Chace way, Berkshire Hathaway. W. Buffet is one of the richest men in the world with his buy and hold, slow growth ways of the world.

        Then there are day traders and oh geez, the ever present CRYPTO crowd. I prefer the lottery.

        Now, if you had Warren Buffet, or even Dennis Gartman early on, and he was a mentor to you, much like what Alen Sultanic is doing TODAY, with Nothing Held Back FACEBOOK group...and you listened to your mentor, after establishing an IT, and they were in synch with your IT...

        Then my premise you would have accelerated the growth and compressed the TIME it took you to get where you are today.

        But those Warriors with a shaky, foggy, idea, not sure of the it...my advice has always been WHAT DO YOU BRING? So, an assessment is the starting point, then evaluation of that, and a Plan Of Action, and within that plan identifying the shortest distance between now and then.

        Thanks for finding this lot,

        A lot of smart savvy people (like yourself) are here to help, and learn too.

        GordonJ
        Agreed time is a bitch, lounge around for 5 years then get angry at people who didn't lounge around for 5 years.

        Or get angrier at people rolling up in a Black BMW at a luxury resort, apparently rolling in it. Time is abstract but has real consequences.


        And desperate, yes, desperate l have heard countless stories about them in my profession and how they borrowed from friends and family then lost it all. And retires losing it all and struggling.

        The stock market is like taming a devil, initially it will bite you, but over time you learn its nuances of how it attacks and put the odd's more in your favor, and learn other advantages that the layman has no idea about, or you know when to grab its tail and when to let go.

        Crypto, lol, cannot trade it in my country so let's not go there, Dennis Gartman rings a bell but no haven't followed him.

        Compressed my growth, phew they probably would have helped or they would have saved me from fumbling about getting in and out of trades all of the time instead of just sitting on it, (there have been several times when just holding for a month would have made me much better off than day trading).

        So l agree mentoring would have probably saved me a year, but it takes time for missing pieces to show up or you being in the right frame of mind to find them.

        Then it takes capital, and sure you can start with $100, but it would take a long time to get that to 1k, so much so it probably would be discouraging and depressing, (you turn 100 into 200 over a month, you can't do much with it).

        Or you probably need 3k to start, and 10k to make life changing amounts, which also takes time, or something that a mentor cannot help you with apart from pestering your family.

        I have been staring at a white screen for the last 8 months, eliminating stocks for the most part, for about an hour every day. And sure there have been plenty of times l couldn't be bothered and other times l really couldn't be bothered, but l kept at it.

        My eyesight has probably slightly deteriorated and my back is sorer from all of that leaning over, but it had to be done.

        And yes it will accelerate profits when it is finally done soon, and no l didn't have the thousands it would have costed me to outsource it, and had to do it all myself.

        Sometimes you just have to work hard, in order to accelerate success.

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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    I brought up the lady with the buttons just to say that, when you have people asking you where you got something and how can they get it, it's easy to see the value of what that "it" is.


    As to affiliate marketing, we're in agreement: a cog in someone else's sales machine.



    But I've come across people who find being a cog in someone else machine demoralizing. They look for a deeper meaning... they start wanting to sell their own product or to see themselves as helper of x or something like that.


    I have explained to many and some have gotten it and some have not that if they just add their experience into the mix, being a cog into someone else's sales machine is plenty of reason...


    And they say, but I have not done anything... And I say, you've bought x, you've used it, that's value. And, like I said, some still said, nah, not good enough. And, then, they want to create a product and cannot come up with anything good enough... or come up with something they think it's great but have no idea who'd buy it.



    Once upon a time, I worked with an accountant who had a company that employed two other accountants and a receptionist/assistant.


    He was looking into selling info and did not know what product to create.


    I told him he could write a how-to-grow an accounting company. He did not see value in that. I pointed out to him that a lot of the accountants he knew either worked for someone else or, if they worked for themselves, they were the company (sometimes, they and their spouse). Getting them to his level (2 accountants plus an assistant besides themselves) had value to them.


    My point, a lot of people, fail to acknowledge to themselves their accomplishments, unless they are huuuge. Part of an accurate self-assessment requires you give yourself credit for the things you have done.



    Adding this point because a lot of people only think of the opposite (people over-estimating themselves) when they think of inaccurate self-assessments.


    I have been guilty of erroneous self-assessment at times myself.



    The difference between me and some is they have been guilty of it less often or they've been guilty of it more often. Or, worse, they do not even know they're supposed to do it.


    But, the fastest way to success, is to know what you can and cannot do, what you will and will not do, what you'll like and will not like doing.


    When you're brand new at IM, you do not even know what to ask... but, if you start and self-correct appropriately, you do end up in a good spot.



    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post


    The button lady fell into something, no plan there, however, what she did do right is find the MARKETPLACE, the demand, from people with the money to pay her price. I think, luck and timing, and finding the right fishing hole may play a big part of her success. That happens too.

    ...
    I have to disagree about affiliate marketing, the value they have is being a sales cog in someone's machine. Most in the affiliate game are dabblers, the ones making the money have the offers. But again, marketing, with many examples right here have a lot to do with their naive belief in what they read.

    This goes to their preparation and includes the assessments and plan of action, once they have chosen to do affiliate marketing. What they soon realize is, they are better to start with a product/service which they would buy (or have) and the value added is their personal testimonial. Sadly, too many affiliate offers don't have you buy, anyone can sell it.

    It was/is true in retail too, the whole BUILD IT THEY WILL COME concept, when marketing and promotional budgets are one of the last things they do, if they have any money left for it, when in reality, it should be right up with the decision. The reason I still get McDonald's ads in my mail box weekly, is THEY think it does them good, and I can't argue with their success, where as many/most/large % of new IMer's don't want to piss away money on paid advertising and go for natural, or organic eyeballs to sell their wares. Which goes to my point about speed and planning

    Again, most of this is MINDSET, and that mindset issue isn't often examined, especially by the desperate and those wanting to cash in on easy money with IM.

    GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Banned
    Interesting thread. : ) I don't have the time to comment on all of it ... However I think it doesn't matter the "Persistence" or "Speed" (etc.) ... Providing that a Person/Entrepeneur accomplishes their goal(s). No matter what it takes. Sometimes it takes a couple of months ― sometimes several years ― it depends on the Project/Endeavor.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

      Interesting thread. : ) I don't have the time to comment on all of it ... However I think it doesn't matter the "Persistence" or "Speed" (etc.) ... Providing that a Person/Entrepeneur accomplishes their goal(s). No matter what it takes. Sometimes it takes a couple of months ― sometimes several years ― it depends on the Project/Endeavor.
      The MIND subforum was set up to: Mind Warriors is a forum dedicated to self improvement and empowering minds to make more money online

      The key is the MAKE MORE MONEY ONLINE. To me, and maybe the majority, "several years" is just too much time.

      As for self improvement, that can be a life long endeavor, but addressing the Warriors who come here to learn to make money online, and I guess that is the vast majority, and we have two decades of evidence here, which shows some after SEVERAL YEARS, 5, 10 even 15 years down the road, are still spinning their wheels.

      Ones that actually start, take action and do, often get bogged down, as I stated in the OP, the money doesn't come in fast enough.

      Any project or endeavor re: making money with IM, I suspect most Warriors would like for that to happen sooner rather than later, eh?

      GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    There is almost a "duality" or a reality that I find both challenging and exciting in DOING BUSINESS... whether it is small transactions or large transactions in the exchange of value.

    Clearly, the markets fluctuate and so then does the VALUE(S) people place on an item, service, or commodity.

    To some degree I believe we can influence or control the outcome or what we deem is suitable in the exchanges - especially in meeting or exceeding our financial (*chosen lifestyle) goals.

    My fear is not having a retirement plan that can and will come to fruition in the next 5-10 years. Clearly, I do not desire to die broke, indebted, or slaving away (laboring) to solve someone else's problems... Be it at their home, property, or preserving their assets.

    I need to be building my own assets at this point in life. My daughter mentioned the other day, she loves her job. (Working at the bank) and she's moving-up FAST... they are already pushing her to get qualified to be/become a loan officer (*residential) then, she can move up to commercial loans... So, she's climbing the corporate ladder, so to speak.

    I have no desire to be on that time clock...not at all.

    Then again, I've been riding "roller coasters" for most of my working life...some years better than others.

    Meanwhile, I'm getting that FEVER for renovation and remodeling again... Already have $1000 in tools sitting in my Home Depot cart online (*Black Friday deals are HUGE, LOL)... And, considering getting my LLC and legal requirements back in order...

    Here's the issue, I can and still do make decent money when I am in work mode. The next 2-3 years are crucial in my mind and my plans for the future.

    Yes, I could spend $2500 in the next couple weeks and get my LLC, workmans comp exemption, general liability insurance, and build back my tool arsenal... And, be a legit "Home Improvement Business" and make good money.

    Now, there too... I could re-evaluate my eBay journey, research, and BUY MORE inventory, get a warehouse, and go do storage auctions and acquire a TON of merchandise CHEAP AF!

    There's a duality in these (2) paths...almost polar opposites. Both require doing the work, the difference being, I do have far more confidence in my abilities renovating and remodeling... Then, my current knowledge of buying and selling will produce in the short-term.

    I need to be doing both... Even if only for 1-3 more years in the fields and part-timing the eBay venture, which I too agree there is far more embedded in my eBay journey than I was aware.

    It is a skill set...selling!!!

    It contains much (*if not all) of what I've been studying and dabbling into here on the forum... Whether it is sales copy, positioning, branding, repeat buyers, customer service, delivery systems, sourcing items, writing titles, specs, and/or SEO... It's ALL in the equation, no doubt.

    Good learning, and a huge potential once I get the formula right!

    Time is the scorekeeper... I can only do so much work in a day, and I only get paid if I do the work!

    That process is the same in many cases here. To be able to automate, build, or compound revenue, assets, and financial growth over shorter periods of time....definitely high up on my "to do lists" these days!
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  • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
    Thing is, time presents you always with a sieve of desiah.

    You may have absoloots of all kinds kinda formin' the sieve.

    Like it is 2022 steada 1657 (whatevah that means).

    Or your relationships & genrl wellbein' shape viewpoints an' opportoonities.

    Or all kindsa momentarily immyootable absoloots definin' how your desiah may manifest -- or naht.

    So you gaze through this fly-eye kinda barrier into the fyootyoore.

    An' you link up all the holes you see, an' dream up sum panorama gonna also excite evrywan else you wanna meet when you get there.

    I believe religious maniacs do this particularly well.

    As a Yogah person aimin' to sync ultra chillout flahpout with perfectly directed romp an' stomp, I would wish to offah my reflections 'pon Persistence vs Speed from my natchrlly genrs Sagittarian perspective combinin' way crazy wisdom with IYF bullshit.

    You decide which rocks most or least!

    Ridah: I ain't read evrythin' here, but I smell a shit hot post & comment trail gowin' on, so prolly ima on a SPEED ticket bcs I frickin' MORTAL. Any thanks I get for my late-in-here hastiness may contribyoot to my persistence, I guess -- speshly if'n you wish to reveal yusself to be STOOPID.

    So apologies if'n I accidentally flush Granma down the pan while she lickin' her lips bcs eggs -- an' inadvertently poison her cat while I don't know what I dowin'.

    Sumdays, I cain't help musself.

    So here is a questyin forya.

    Lessn' you tap WF for seekrits while you joggin' or swimmin', likely you eithah readin' alla this sittin' or standin'.

    So how you dowin' that fastah, zackly?

    Fast standin' or sittin' sounds to Moi like havin' Cocaine injected inya tits.

    Not evrythin' responds too smart to bein' speeded up, yanno.

    Evry process got a nachrl rhythm to it.

    Don't wanna sound like filth here, I jus' wanna posit filosofical trooth 'bout stuffs.

    Yeah, so ... like I chillin' out in a Yogic capacity ... an' I figure *let's do this fastah*.

    Hmmm, yeah, Princess, at this point you touchin' on bein' darn near clinically insane, though you prolly still look kinda dinky as you writhe abominably.

    Alla which leaves persistence, I guess.

    So what you persistin'?

    Gotta figure herein lies the need to return always to still points, less'n you suffocated by time's sieve or beguiled by improbable vistas that sift of its metal will nevah delivah.

    Persistin' is kinda natchrl, an evident reality of hoomanity till we croak the frick on out.

    All who readin' muhtheso woids are inherently persistent in this way.

    Nuthin' to do with persuasion: IRL You is sittin' readin' this bcs you persisted so brilliantly to this point -- less'n you tryin' to be clevah, an' multitaskin' subsoomin' muh brilliance with parashootin' out from like the stratosphere.

    Would it help to considah sumtimes how a desiah to unpersist an' slow the frick down might help you?

    I would wish always to kiss on this desiah, pyoore an' troo.

    The Earth spins on and on, an' its gravity will forevah hold us close until we threaten evrythin' else for which this is inevitability's most immediate construct.

    Easiest way to naht be flung out into oblivion is kwallty flahpout time.

    Here, there is no need for speed, an' what persists is kinda what jus' happnin'.

    Dust settles.

    Heart stills.

    Mind & body regroops.

    That's my start point for gettin' up an' commoonin' with the dialogsy Caaahsmaaaahs.

    If'n song is demanded, I may bettah calibrate my toons; if'n bite is required, I got more ackyoorit feel on where muh teeth are.

    Likely if'n I did naht proceed this way, more people than I wish would figure Moi totally offa my schlompzy.

    That a cool ansa for anywan?

    If'n it YOU, then I dun my jahb, I guess.

    Evrywan else don't mattah. Sweetiepoppet!
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Dug this one out of my archives:


    And the line I was specifically looking for "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast"

    You can very quickly discredit the message by the messenger... Oh I dont want to be that big or have this or have that... but it all started as just about any and every business venture - someone on their own, or a pair of people or a group - the first 2 being the most common - in terms of known success stories

    Where it goes after it "Starts" thats not the point of any advice Besos would give, Or Musk, Or Jobs, Or Gates or Ford, Or Col Sanders... Its driven by passion - in NONE of these cases is the drive for $$$

    Exactly how do you go from PayPal to Launching the largest rocket in human history? And not have a lick of "Rocket Engineering" education? Think about that for a moment.

    Besos went from a passion of books in his garage to... boundless.

    Besos is noted as sayng "You can have a job, or you can have a career, or you can have a calling" AND "You don't choose your passions, your passions choose you," followed by, "All of us are gifted with certain passions, and the people who are lucky are the ones who get to follow those things."

    The issue is we get hung up on the WHY... and we sit on our couch and moan and groan and carry on about how life is unfair... or how this person made it in 5 yrs or whatever the Nancy negative narrative you are throwing around in your head. And as you sit there on the couch consuming Anime in copious amounts - it never once crosses your mind that that thing right in front of you, is the inner passion presenting itself to you.

    I have said this time and again - Its right in front of you... its what you watch ( consume ) its what you eat, its what you have a collection of, its what you surround yourself with, its what you want to surround yourself with, its what you do when your not wasting your time in self doubt. Its what makes YOU, YOU

    By no means am I or have I ever said just up and quit what you hate and jump on this adventure of self employment - but here it is at 2am on a now Wednesday and I will bet everyone that is reading this later in the day... was sleeping. there are 24 hours in a day... what amount of time have you spent in a day TODAY, that will make tomorrow better?

    There is no fast track to success... there are hours and hours and hours of passion and dedication behind that single moment of success. SPEED comes from a culmination of skill building over years - no skills? no success - it is I believe to be pretty much that simple.

    Why can I step into any position of my business? because, regardless of where I am today, i have not forgotten the countless hours i spent in front of a computer at 14 ( 40 years and counting ) If I cant do the THING... how is it I can expect someone else to do the THING, the way I want it done? I dont think it makes me a control freak - it makes me ACCOUNTABLE.

    If failure is anything other than your own fault... well its your fault

    I will go right back to "You can have a job, or you can have a career, or you can have a calling" Its probably in most peoples DNA to have a Job.. a few less to have a career... and apparently even less to have a calling. and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with not knowing if you have a calling or not.

    I would venture to say everyone has that moment in their life... it was a choice - more than likely a risk... and you didnt take it... and probably regret it - regret will absolutely chew you up - again 24 hours in a day... you COULD - and mitigate the risk - and keep what you have, and just dedicate time to YOU.

    No such thing as over night success... No such thing as a 4 hour work week... 10,000 hours and you get good at something.... time doesnt stop - but time can be spent, and time adds up "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast"
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      Dug this one out of my archives:

      &quot;I Got Rich When I Understood This&quot; | Jeff Bezos - YouTube

      And the line I was specifically looking for "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast"

      Where it goes after it "Starts" thats not the point of any advice Besos would give, Or Musk, Or Jobs, Or Gates or Ford, Or Col Sanders... Its driven by passion - in NONE of these cases is the drive for $$$

      Exactly how do you go from PayPal to Launching the largest rocket in human history? And not have a lick of "Rocket Engineering" education? Think about that for a moment.

      Besos went from a passion of books in his garage to... boundless.

      Besos is noted as sayng "You can have a job, or you can have a career, or you can have a calling" AND "You don't choose your passions, your passions choose you," followed by, "All of us are gifted with certain passions, and the people who are lucky are the ones who get to follow those things."
      "
      Well yes and no, I doubt that Musk was passionate about Paypal, (l don't see him moving into e-commerce software, etc) but he was sure passionate about what he could do with the money he got from it.

      Same with me, the stock market gig is a means to an end, since things that l am really crazy about cannot be scaled as well as that can.
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  • Profile picture of the author anymore
    Banned
    Everyone is starting at a different level. I find it helps to watch youtube video reviews of each wso product as they get released. If you are really new at internet marketing, it maybe best to find a coach that you can afford. The best coaching programs always offer a full refund if you are not happy with your results.
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  • Profile picture of the author themagicwithinyou
    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    The number one reason why new Entrepreneurs give up is...they don't make money fast enough.

    Persistence is great. A necessity for business success, I can't or won't argue that point. If you are not prepared to persist, rethink the idea.

    BUT, and this has been my bogaboo with Warriors for a couple of decades; and there are differing opinions, please share if so.

    I see and think there isn't enough time and thought spent in CHOOSING the path, and getting to What is wanted and Why? Or the INTENT.

    And there are tons of Warriors who dove in and then come back in 5, 7 years starting over.

    I don't think it takes, 7, 8 or 9 years to learn what you need to do, and execute IF, you begin with a solid well thought out plan and persist with that.

    Four years is plenty of time, and 2 years if working full time on your business, and after that one should be on their way.

    A couple of observations; first most OVER estimate the time they have to work on a side hustle or part-time biz...and second; most are UNDER funded to begin with.

    Now, of course, it is fun to read about all those multimillionaire IM gurus who get featured on the latest must have affiliate thing, for 1200 to 2200 dollars...but the phrase:

    If I did it, so can you. Is a very false premise.

    May be the biggest lie in IM. Just follow the plan, blueprint, do what I did, get what I got routine.

    If so, why wouldn't we just get a WSO, follow it, and get to greener pastures just like they did? /

    It appears too many folks just don't know what they want, or why they want it...and then add unwilling to do or learn the things needed to take them to their goal.

    If you financial goal is 10k dollars a month with your IM, it shouldn't take you a decade to get there.

    Go back 10 years here, to 2012, and see Warriors with financial goals still striving, still persisting...and look at Tik-Tok, a relatively new thing, and see the many millionaires who got there doing very silly stuff.

    Now, of course, ACTION, or movement in the direction of a goal is needed, a MUST, but there isn't any reason to zig zag for years trying to hit a bee with a bb gun from 20 yards.

    The bee is the ever changing goal, the shiny object, the lack of persistence...and a lot of that comes from the set up, or start.

    An honest self appraisal of skills, knowledge, attitude and aptitude.

    Not nearly enough time spent on that. THEN, a goal, and a plan, and analytics, knowing how much progress is being made.

    And if the goal is reached in 2 or 3 years, the MAINTAIN plan, how to keep it going and growing with less and less effort and attention, more of an automated process.

    I prefer SPEED, along with persistence.

    Do something small, get some early success, get a profit in 30 days, grow and build out, but if it is a year in and little to know profits, maybe time to see exactly what you are persisting for??

    Your opinions?

    GordonJ
    Great advice! People really underestimate persistence, but I think it is the number one trait you need to cultivate, to not just succeed in online business, but at anything in life!

    In my experience, people *tend* to look for quick fixes. Call it impatience, whatever. In their careers, love life, health or lifestyle in general. It doesn't matter what it is, people lean towards wanting it now.

    We're all born with different skills and gifts, what comes easily to us we'll just do well automatically. For things we're not so great at, we'll compensate in some way.

    That can be healthy i.e. working at something you're not so good at and becoming better at it. Or, unhealthy: overcompensate by accentuating our best skills, but not for the best intentions e.g. to 'beat' someone or manipulate others for our advantage.

    Persistence pays, it's an old adage. Slow and steady. Put the work in in small bits, day by day and the results over time will grow. Same for online business as it is for health, love and any meaningful life goals.

    Thanks for your post, really useful.
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy Arrandale
    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    The number one reason why new Entrepreneurs give up is...they don't make money fast enough.

    Persistence is great. A necessity for business success, I can't or won't argue that point. If you are not prepared to persist, rethink the idea.

    BUT, and this has been my bogaboo with Warriors for a couple of decades; and there are differing opinions, please share if so.

    I see and think there isn't enough time and thought spent in CHOOSING the path, and getting to What is wanted and Why? Or the INTENT.

    And there are tons of Warriors who dove in and then come back in 5, 7 years starting over.

    I don't think it takes, 7, 8 or 9 years to learn what you need to do, and execute IF, you begin with a solid well thought out plan and persist with that.

    Four years is plenty of time, and 2 years if working full time on your business, and after that one should be on their way.

    A couple of observations; first most OVER estimate the time they have to work on a side hustle or part-time biz...and second; most are UNDER funded to begin with.

    Now, of course, it is fun to read about all those multimillionaire IM gurus who get featured on the latest must have affiliate thing, for 1200 to 2200 dollars...but the phrase:

    If I did it, so can you. Is a very false premise.

    May be the biggest lie in IM. Just follow the plan, blueprint, do what I did, get what I got routine.

    If so, why wouldn't we just get a WSO, follow it, and get to greener pastures just like they did? /

    It appears too many folks just don't know what they want, or why they want it...and then add unwilling to do or learn the things needed to take them to their goal.

    If you financial goal is 10k dollars a month with your IM, it shouldn't take you a decade to get there.

    Go back 10 years here, to 2012, and see Warriors with financial goals still striving, still persisting...and look at Tik-Tok, a relatively new thing, and see the many millionaires who got there doing very silly stuff.

    Now, of course, ACTION, or movement in the direction of a goal is needed, a MUST, but there isn't any reason to zig zag for years trying to hit a bee with a bb gun from 20 yards.

    The bee is the ever changing goal, the shiny object, the lack of persistence...and a lot of that comes from the set up, or start.

    An honest self appraisal of skills, knowledge, attitude and aptitude.

    Not nearly enough time spent on that. THEN, a goal, and a plan, and analytics, knowing how much progress is being made.

    And if the goal is reached in 2 or 3 years, the MAINTAIN plan, how to keep it going and growing with less and less effort and attention, more of an automated process.

    I prefer SPEED, along with persistence.

    Do something small, get some early success, get a profit in 30 days, grow andbuild out, but if it is a year in and little to know profits, maybe time to see exactly what you are persisting for??

    Your opinions?

    GordonJ
    Great and helpful post!

    ...but the phrase:

    If I did it, so can you. Is a very false premise.

    May be the biggest lie in IM. Just follow the plan, blueprint, do what I did, get what I got routine.
    I agree. But I found some teachers who, while they state that, go beyond that with keeping on top of what's working with constant testing and monitoring and then informing their students of the changes.

    That's gold if you can find teacher who will do that and not just sit back on their laurels.
    Because the internet and what's working is constantly changing.
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