The POWER of NEXT and 'scope creep'...to bring in $3,000 in one hour

21 replies
Hey fellow warriors, just posting about my recent story with one of my offline clients so that it helps you out and if others want to add their inputs on how they handle scope creep..then great!

Why this is important? Because it sets you up for the 'upsell' and in this
case, brought in an extra $3,000 in one hour for my consulting firm!

********************************
This information as a new or 'experienced'
offline consultant is CRITICAL to your SANITY.
********************************

Here's the recent story on my client's scope
creep.

Note - 'scope' creep is a common consulting term, whereby it means you are performing services for your client at a agreed upon price and 'what's in scope..aka the work or deliverables you will do for that price.

So what happened is the client kinda 'played dumb' at my last status meeting thinking that running the entire challenge / contest we set up for
her was included in the $3,500 she had already paid.

How to control scope creep so you don't do extra work, and feel taking advantage of?

1. You have to be DIRECT and say it.

2. Say it with full confidence, voice inflections
and if in person, your non verbal communication
matching what you are saying.

3. You have to BELIEVE our value is worth it.

4. You have to STAND FIRM and be willing to walk
away if 'that's not ok' with them

5. What worked effectively for me, was I pulled
up the actual original agreement that clearly
identified what was 'in scope' so that it was on
black and white paper - and clear that what
was being asked for now...was clearly 'out of
scope' and would naturally require further consulting
fees and a new invoice.

Note: I was at my lake house more than 1,000 miles
away from my client, this was done via a gotowebinar
with the client....very sweet to be that 'VIRTUAL CONSULTANT'

6. So make sure you do that originally, when you
get a client, sometimes you are so excited about it,
you forget to clearly put down on paper in an agreement
what you are delivering for said dollars.

********************************************
Note: this WILL HELP YOU tremendously and allow you
to have a very effective and PROSPEROUS relationship with your
client.
********************************************

The end result in my story is that she agreed to a further
$3,000 for the additional work. Bringing a total of $7,500
in less than 30 days from just that one client alone.

And she is giving referrals now too because by being
professional, organized and CONFIDENT...

You gain their respect and they will purchase more
from you.

Now - the assumption is that you are delivering value and
that is why I haven't addressed that one in this message!

Hope that helped as a brief "SCOPE CREEP" primer...

****************************************
Law of Offline Consulting - Identify the scope of the work
you will perform for your client, put it on paper and both of
you agree to it...

...it will save your derriere many a time!

Another Law:

Have regular status meetings (phone, virtual webinar, live
in person) to

1. Deepen the relationship
2. Show off your results! Seriously - some busy business owners are too busy to 'read a status report' you give them!
3. Get FEEDBACK from your customer
4. Discuss further revenue opportunities for your client that aka is your upsell!
5. Get REFERRALS (yes ask for referrals - you can build a million dollar consulting business just by this ALONE! I've done it!)
Cheers and have a great start to your week!

Maria "Watch the Scope" Gudelis

ps - if you really got value out of this - I can post an image of the defined 'scope' from my agreement to all of you...let me know if that is something you'd benefit from.
#bring #cope #creepto #hour #power
  • Profile picture of the author LisaSchwartz
    Very insightful indeed. Having been your fan [probably better term "student" ] for about a year and having had some experience with clients, I have to admit, it is "critical" you put it in writing. I can't remember the name of a wise person who in my career mentioned to me "if you have to refer back to the contract than the relationship is not going well" and it struck me in this post. But to further this wise thought, [ because he was talking about a straight forward agreement] when you do consulting work in such a "new" industry you have to clearly outline the scope and more importantly the exact deliverables.

    Now, in my contracts, in addition to the main agreement, I also put the exact deliverables to be expected with a blank line after them. This is because I ask the person to initial what they just read. Of course they still forget, but it lightens up the conversation when I say to them "hey, remember all those initials you balked about because your hand almost cramped,..blah blah.. it's in there...so read that again..." or something to that effect.

    Would love to get your agreement copy on this for further insight.

    Thanks for bringing up such a useful post and the way you managed to get the client relationship back on track AND pull in more cash-o-l-a, well that's a testimonial of your wisdom and professionalism in this field Maria. And as a mature person as well .
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    • Profile picture of the author Maria Gudelis
      Originally Posted by LisaSchwartz View Post

      Very insightful indeed. Having been your fan [probably better term "student" ] for about a year and having had some experience with clients, I have to admit, it is "critical" you put it in writing. I can't remember the name of a wise person who in my career mentioned to me "if you have to refer back to the contract than the relationship is not going well" and it struck me in this post. But to further this wise thought, [ because he was talking about a straight forward agreement] when you do consulting work in such a "new" industry you have to clearly outline the scope and more importantly the exact deliverables.

      Now, in my contracts, in addition to the main agreement, I also put the exact deliverables to be expected with a blank line after them. This is because I ask the person to initial what they just read. Of course they still forget, but it lightens up the conversation when I say to them "hey, remember all those initials you balked about because your hand almost cramped,..blah blah.. it's in there...so read that again..." or something to that effect.

      Would love to get your agreement copy on this for further insight.

      Thanks for bringing up such a useful post and the way you managed to get the client relationship back on track AND pull in more cash-o-l-a, well that's a testimonial of your wisdom and professionalism in this field Maria. And as a mature person as well .
      Hey Lisa - thanks for that and yes - I'll load up an image of the simple defined scope for that client so you can see- I'll do it tomorrow - logging off now to visit family for Sunday dinner!

      cheers, M
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  • Profile picture of the author Jackie Tulos
    Maria, you are always on target on what we as consultants need to hear. I am having this exact same problem with a client that I am working with now. We have a written contract for the deliverables, but she keeps asking me to do other things. I said to her that we need to finish the first phase then start on the next one. I need to learn from your example of how to ask for more money and change the contract.

    Thanks for all that you share with us.
    Jackie
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    Jackie Tulos
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    • Profile picture of the author Maria Gudelis
      Originally Posted by Jackie Tulos View Post

      Maria, you are always on target on what we as consultants need to hear. I am having this exact same problem with a client that I am working with now. We have a written contract for the deliverables, but she keeps asking me to do other things. I said to her that we need to finish the first phase then start on the next one. I need to learn from your example of how to ask for more money and change the contract.

      Thanks for all that you share with us.
      Jackie

      You bet Jackie- yes - use it as a great opportunity to upsell - rather than getting frustrated at clients wanting more ...

      because it is human nature...to ask for more isn't it?

      cheers, M
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    • Profile picture of the author ITByTheSea
      I just had a meeting with the folks who work with me last week about scope creep and how it hurts both the business and the way we feel about ourselves.

      The way I see it there's a very vicious circle going on there: we let the creep happen because we don't value our work (ourselves) enough and after it happens it kind of solidifies that feeling that we're not really that valuable.

      I want to cut that and we've agreed that's one thing we're going to work on this month.

      Maria, are you using the agreements that are in your Legal Contracts package?
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      • Profile picture of the author jimbo3891
        Right On Maria.

        We've just been the victims of "scope creep" - and it was happening right before my eyes and I just couldn't seem to stop it. We laid everything out in our presentation to the client, and before we start work, we give them a questionnaire asking them about specific things in their business. One of those items is if they would like to change their logo (a definite upsell).

        This client said "no" and we proceeded. A few weeks ago as we're finishing up the last few items on their site and getting ready to go live, his wife gets involved and is adamant about them changing their logo. Did they need a new logo? Absolutely. And we agreed with her on that. We offered to do the logo work for a fee, but they decided to go locally with someone that they had a relationship with through their kids soccer league. That was O.K. with me because I could just see a long drawn out affair to get the logo to their liking. I gave them specific details of what we required for any artwork submitted to us.

        When we got the logo, it was a perfect example of someone doing design work that has NO idea about web 2.0 or marketing in general. Although we liked the logo sooooooo much better, it still wasn't what aLee would have done for us - so I was a bit disappointed. But, they were happy and paid for it, so we put it on their site. I agreed to put it in the header of the site without charge (a mistake now in retrospect).

        They also wanted to add another logo for one of their credentials. I had previously asked for the proper file type for this logo which I used elsewhere on their site and their office manager said that I could just pull it from the site of the accreditation group. I knew better, but did it anyway. And, it was very fine for everything we used it for - until we put it in the header of the site. Then it looked "fuzzy" - to use the client's terms. I informed them that they would now have to supply the logo package that was behind the password protected area that I originally asked for when we started. Surprisingly they remembered the conversation and were both compliant and apologetic.

        Now that we've got the new logo in the header, the additional logo in the header, and all the other things that they've asked for, they now want to put the new logo in the video (which had previously been signed off on). I agree that it needs to be there, but we're definitely going to charge to change that. Why? Because we tried to get them to change the header to begin with and they weren't interested.

        Lessons we've learned from this client that had previously not been a problem.
        1) Spell everything out in great detail - including the details of artwork supplied by the business and additional costs for modifying that artwork if necessary.

        2) Have more "interim" steps and meet with the client to get signoffs and modifications if necessary.

        3) Set a realistic timetable for items from the client. We asked for things from this client and sometimes found ourselves waiting weeks until we got it back from them. Meanwhile, their project ground to a halt.

        4) Clarify ALL expections - both what is expected from the client AND what is expected from you. We had clear definitions of what could be expected from us, but our biggest hole was what was expected from the client.

        5) Break your payment up into more pieces. We've always collected 1/2 to get started and 1/2 when finished. We're probably going to break this up into four or five payments - with at least 30% up front.

        6) Make sure all decision makers and influencers are involved from the start. We thought the business owner was the decision maker (and he even told us he was - men will rarely admit that their wives have any influence on their business). About halfway through the process, the wife got involved. Why? Because how he looked on the video was very "stiff". Guess what! HE IS STIFF! Even in person. But we ended up reshooting the video again (just his personal speaking part) and spent three times as much time trying to get a very warm and personal shot.

        7) Clearly state that the video we are shooting on location is going to be a true representation of their business. If there are things they do not want shown, they need to be outlined on our video shoot form. This is a vet's office. It's in a building that is about 50 years old and there are some areas that need some maintenance. Some of these areas showed up in the video and we had to go back to the clinic to reshoot those scenes to avoid seeing them in the video - this became a really creative work at this point.

        8) Since this is a accurate representation of their business, clearly state that there may be scenes or procedures that they would like to have on video that will just not render appropriately. This vet has outdoor runs for the dogs that are made from chain link fencing. Have you ever tried to shoot video through chain link fence (or still photos for that matter). The fencing becomes "noise" and all you can see in the photo/video is fencing - not what is behind the fence. They couldn't understand why we couldn't get a good video of their outdoor runs because they could see into them just fine. I finally had to spend a little time and get almost adamant that we just couldn't accommodate that shot. They finally yielded.

        We had what we clearly thought was a scope of work, and it was not enough. I think Lisa's idea of having them initial each item is an excellent idea. We used to do that in the investment business on all of our disclosures - about 27 lines to initialize and a final signature at the bottom. That form kept us out of hot water more often than not, so it could potentially keep us in the clear here - plus as Maria said, it can work into an upsell.

        Thanks for an excellent post again Maria. Hope you enjoyed your Sunday afternoon.
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        James Dunn
        Athens, GA
        http://wpmu.org/author/jamesdunn

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      • Profile picture of the author Maria Gudelis
        Originally Posted by ITByTheSea View Post

        I just had a meeting with the folks who work with me last week about scope creep and how it hurts both the business and the way we feel about ourselves.

        The way I see it there's a very vicious circle going on there: we let the creep happen because we don't value our work (ourselves) enough and after it happens it kind of solidifies that feeling that we're not really that valuable.

        I want to cut that and we've agreed that's one thing we're going to work on this month.

        Maria, are you using the agreements that are in your Legal Contracts package?
        Yes and for some 'initial' at a lower price point - i use a straight out invoice with a section in it that is a cut and paste from my legal agreements package
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  • Profile picture of the author ITByTheSea
    James. Thanks a lot for this long and instructive post.

    I was reading your post and all the time thinking "that's what we did with such and such." You've just helped me pinpoint a lot of things we need to change.

    The most amazing part is I am seeing next week a prospect who's a local vet and I know for a fact we're going to have the chain link problem if/when they go for a video. Thanks to you I can start thinking of how we'll solve that before even discussing it with the client.

    Christine
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    • Profile picture of the author jimbo3891
      If you figure out a way to solve the chain link fence problem - be sure to let me know. I've not been able to solve it yet. The only solution I've come up with is shoot it at night (or late in the evening) and really work hard to light inside of the runs so that the fence becomes a shadow rather that highlighted. Haven't been ambitious enough to try that yet though.
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      James Dunn
      Athens, GA
      http://wpmu.org/author/jamesdunn

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  • Profile picture of the author John Collins
    Hi Maria -

    This is great info. Some (ok many) years ago I had a business where this often happened. To solve the problem I ended up always having a copy of the contract with me and had change order contracts with me for when memories of the original agreement didn't match the contract. This really saved me some headaches and kept the peace. Plus it's an ideal situation to get additional billable work. It's not you trying to convince them they need it they "want" it or they wouldn't have brought it up. Thanks for this thread I'll be reading it as it grows.

    LisaSchwartz - I really like your idea of having the client initial each deliverable. I keep seeing you different places a you always have something good to share. Thank you.

    jimbo3891 - Hey James thanks for sharing that with us. I was feeling for you as I read that. I always try to read what you have to say too. You always have something to say I can learn from. There seems to be a lot you need to be aware of and it's hard to cover our *ss for everything.

    I can see I'm going to need to set up a snippet swipe file for contracts so I can quickly custom tailor different contracts. I've already benefited from what's on the thread. This is going to be awesome. Thanks Maria!
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    • Profile picture of the author Blase
      I've been consulting since 1995 and I
      am embarrased to admit that
      "SCOPE CREEP" is a new term for me,
      but not a problem I didn't face.

      Maria, you hit the nail right on the head
      with your #5.

      "5. What worked effectively for me, was I pulled
      up the actual original agreement that clearly
      identified what was 'in scope' so that it was on
      black and white paper - and clear that what
      was being asked for now...was clearly 'out of
      scope' and would naturally require further consulting
      fees and a new invoice."

      Set the expectation and write it down!

      I had one client that was paying me $2,500 per
      month that just couldn't get it through her
      head what she was paying for. I canceled
      the contract and walked.

      If it wasn't for clients, consulting would be a great business.
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      "Nothing Happens Until Something Is Sold"
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      • Profile picture of the author Maria Gudelis
        Originally Posted by Blase View Post

        I've been consulting since 1995 and I
        am embarrased to admit that
        "SCOPE CREEP" is a new term for me,
        but not a problem I didn't face.

        Maria, you hit the nail right on the head
        with your #5.

        "5. What worked effectively for me, was I pulled
        up the actual original agreement that clearly
        identified what was 'in scope' so that it was on
        black and white paper - and clear that what
        was being asked for now...was clearly 'out of
        scope' and would naturally require further consulting
        fees and a new invoice."

        Set the expectation and write it down!

        I had one client that was paying me $2,500 per
        month that just couldn't get it through her
        head what she was paying for. I canceled
        the contract and walked.

        If it wasn't for clients, consulting would be a great business.
        LOL - I love your quote:

        If it wasn't for clients, consulting would be a great business



        I try my best to have my Client Services Manager do most of the 'client hand holding' so I maintain my happiness factor!
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  • Profile picture of the author cadoutsource
    Maria is always on point with her case studies. In my previous consulting I always used a scope of work contract or invoice and had the client sign off on it before work was started. In my experience clients will always try to nickel & dime you on last minute revisions. Obviously it comes down to respecting your business & delivering what the contract calls for in a professional manner. Also I make the client sign-off when I give them deliverables.This might seem harsh but this is for your best interest in case the client tries to take you to court in the future. If the client insists on the extras without paying then nine times out of ten they will not use you for repeat business anyway. Kindly remind them you have fulfilled your obligation and how much it's going to cost in a new work order or new proposal.
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    • Profile picture of the author Maria Gudelis
      Originally Posted by cadoutsource View Post

      Maria is always on point with her case studies. In my previous consulting I always used a scope of work contract or invoice and had the client sign off on it before work was started. In my experience clients will always try to nickel & dime you on last minute revisions. Obviously it comes down to respecting your business & delivering what the contract calls for in a professional manner. Also I make the client sign-off when I give them deliverables.This might seem harsh but this is for your best interest in case the client tries to take you to court in the future. If the client insists on the extras without paying then nine times out of ten they will not use you for repeat business anyway. Kindly remind them you have fulfilled your obligation and how much it's going to cost in a new work order or new proposal.
      Thanks for the kudos- love your quote:

      If the client insists on the extras without paying then nine times out of ten they will not use you for repeat business anyway. Kindly remind them you have fulfilled your obligation and how much it's going to cost in a new work order or new proposal.
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      • Profile picture of the author gmr324
        Hi Maria,

        Many thanks for sharing your wisdom! It makes sense that if the "honeymoon stage" with a client doesn't go well, that it's an indication of how "the marriage" will go. No substitute for being very explicit and putting it in writing.

        Speaking of contracts, I'm a newbie and would love to find out where to get a hold of
        your Legal Contracts package that was referred to in this thread. Can you provide a link?

        Many Thanks

        George
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        • Profile picture of the author Maria Gudelis
          Originally Posted by gmr324 View Post

          Hi Maria,

          Many thanks for sharing your wisdom! It makes sense that if the "honeymoon stage" with a client doesn't go well, that it's an indication of how "the marriage" will go. No substitute for being very explicit and putting it in writing.

          Speaking of contracts, I'm a newbie and would love to find out where to get a hold of
          your Legal Contracts package that was referred to in this thread. Can you provide a link?

          Many Thanks

          George
          Hey George - sure - its at Offline Contracts Now but I have a warrior price point of $97 for fellow warriors - I'll get Trish to pm you a special coupon tomorrow on that!

          off to bedtime!

          cheers, M
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  • Profile picture of the author gmr324
    Hi Maria,

    Thanks for the tip and the offer. I look forward to getting the coupon PMd to me

    Much Appreciated

    George
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  • Profile picture of the author 4by8air
    Hi Maria,

    Thanks for the wonderful insight. I have been following you for a while, and have learned a lot. Little by little I have incorporated a lot of your teachings in my business.

    Any chance I can get the coupon for the Contracts package?

    Thanking you in advance,

    Ovidio.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tamer
    Great tip Maria
    Thanks!

    ps - if you really got value out of this - I can post an image of the defined 'scope' from my agreement to all of you...let me know if that is something you'd benefit from.
    YES!, please post this here (if possible), I suggest you remove anything that will directly identify your client (but i guess this goes without saying )

    umm, I came from a "slightly" different industry... programming!

    In the programming field... there is a similar term called "Feature Creep"
    it's when the client starts asking for Extra features go beyond the starting understanding or/and Agreement.

    and this simply cause the project to become over-complicated!

    The point here is this: Sometimes "feature creeping" is NOT coming form the client's side! ... it comes from the programmer's side when he/she sees a "window of opportunity" to add a feature in order to "impress" their client.

    BOOOM! the project is spoiled!

    From that point on, the client will never stop asking for more features and for modifications on the modifications!

    Moral of the story: Put it in black n white... and let's STICK to it.

    "Train" your client that if he/she is going to ask for new features (or in the Offline consultancy, for new assignments/tasks) then he/she must pay for it AND this should be the subject of a new Agreement to pinpoint the new assignment.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

    Best regards,

    Tamer
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    • Profile picture of the author jimbo3891
      Tamer, you have explained EXACTLY how it usually happens to me. When I was a builder it happened that way - when I wrote code, it happened to me that way - and now that we're doing offline consulting, it happens to me that way. I am usually the victim of doing that little something extra in the name of over-delivering (whether it be that simple trim detail in something I'm building, that little extra feature, or that little extra item in the consultant realm) - I do that one little thing that opens the pandora's box.

      BTW, I'll share a story that happened to me this week - it doesn't relate to scope creep, but it relates to what we charge versus what we're worth. Since I was a builder for a number of years, AND I am somewhat of a craftsman with wood, I still get calls to do some jobs and I pick and choose what I do. Last week, a friend called because he had bought a foreclosed home that someone had torn all the metal pickets out of the staircase and left a nasty mess on the staircase. He asked me to quote him putting everything back together with the new pickets that he bought. He said he couldn't do it - it was beyond his skill level.

      My business partner and I discussed what we'd charge, we decided on $1,200 and I told the guy $1,300. We worked less than 9 hours completing it - everything went extremely well and we had NO problems (a rare occurrence). My business partner said that he felt guilty charging him $1,300 for the little bit of time that we spent on it. I told him that I didn't because unlike a lot of what we've done through the years, this job wasn't about how much time we put in to it, but it was about putting the skills and knowledge to work restoring the staircase to the condition it was before someone decided to destroy it. Our knowledge was worth every dime we were getting paid.

      The client walked in, his jaw dropped on the floor, and he was thankful over and over. He said just before we were leaving, "I couldn't have done that - especially by myself, and not to that level of craftsmanship." At that point, my business partner "got it." He's preached that to me for years, but I don't think he's believed it before that day.

      It's the same with the offline consulting work that we all do. We don't get paid for the hours we spend on something. If that's all we're doing, we're just trading hours for dollars and regardless of how many dollars we charge, we're limited in the dollars we can make by the hours we can work. We get paid for the knowledge, the expertise, the experience, and the skill set that we bring to the equation. Oh, we also get paid for results because all the skills in the world would not have fixed that staircase unless we got results. Same in consulting - all the skills, knowledge, and expertise will not get us paid without results.

      The next time you're feeling guilty about what you are charging someone for what you do (personally I don't know why you would unless you've actually overpriced your work), remember that you're not being paid for your time (if you are, you might as well have a J.O.B.) but for what you can do for the client. You are very well worth it.
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      James Dunn
      Athens, GA
      http://wpmu.org/author/jamesdunn

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