Benny Hinn's Appeal - God TV

89 replies
I just wondered if anyone here saw Benny Hinn's appeal on God TV last night; and, if so, what you thought of it. This morning I felt compelled to write a Blog article about it - you can read it here ...

Benny Hinn - This Man Must be Stopped!

I am interested in what people have to say about the appeal itself and particularly interested in the opinions of US citizens on this kind of broadcasting.
#appeal #benny #benny hinn #god #god tv #hinn
  • Profile picture of the author Cindy Battye
    Oh - I am totally with you! I think God has used him to minister to some people - but this 'send my $1k' and i'll pray for you thing is bullshit.

    Drives me crazy, wanna hit something kinda bullshit.

    Sad thing is that some desperate people are going to buy into this - and fund his next slicked over hairdo - and next fund pushing tv seminar. GRRR!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Birch
    Hi

    I'm a born again Christian, and VERY open to the signs and wonders of God, which include miraculous healings.

    BUT, I do not know many born again Christians who agree with the Bennie Hinn method of doing anything - most people I know will quickly turn to another channel if this guy come on.

    In our church (a very lively, Pentecostal, and LOUD church full of people younger than 30yrs old), we purposely move away from the 'cringe' factor because of the damage it can do to the mindsets of new people (either Christian or not) coming into the church.

    So yes, I agree that Bennie Hinn should be stopped . . .

    Kevin
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  • Profile picture of the author John Derrick
    I have never understood the appeal of Benny Hinn.

    He certainly isn't new... I remember waaaay back when Oral Roberts said God was going to kill him if he didn't raise so many millions of dollars (I forget the exact amount)....

    and yes, he raised the money.

    So there IS an appeal that strikes home with some people. I'd love to have someone explain that appeal to me.

    It's so easy to see through that kind of stuff for most of us.
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    • Profile picture of the author write-stuff
      Originally Posted by John Derrick View Post

      He certainly isn't new... I remember waaaay back when Oral Roberts said God was going to kill him if he didn't raise so many millions of dollars (I forget the exact amount)....

      and yes, he raised the money.
      Actually, I don't think he did. But I guess God changed his mind and decided to let him live anyway.

      Benny Hinn joins all the rest of the faith healers as charlatans. They never "heal" anything overt. It's always something that can't be measured. And plenty of studies have followed the "healed" after the service to discover that they weren't healed at all. (Now of course there are going to be documented cases of remision and spontaneous cures, but they are rare and statistically expected.)

      Let's face it. If faith healing works, why can't they cure herpes and amputations? Are there certain conditions that are even too difficult for God to fix?
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      • Profile picture of the author DougBarger
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        • Profile picture of the author write-stuff
          Originally Posted by DougBarger View Post

          God's word always works.
          I'm sorry, Doug. I know you find solace in this, but the fact is that faith healing and praying do nothing more than what would be statistically expected. If clinging to this type of belief brings you joy, then by all means cling. And my best wishes to you.

          People like Benny Hinn are predators, bilking the gullible for millions. I guess Robert Tilton is actually my favorite. He doesn't bother with all the touring. He runs his business much more efficiently.
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          • Profile picture of the author DougBarger
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            • Profile picture of the author Emailrevealer
              Man I'm losing it. I though the thread was about Benny Hill. I thought the English comedian got saved and went on a Christian tv station.

              I'm a former Evangilist with a traveling tent ministry on the NE of the US. I never accepted any money for it tho. I've met many very sincere Christians and also some that are in it for money and ego.
              Just like anything else there are some good and some bad in every area of life.
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              • Profile picture of the author John Henderson
                Originally Posted by Emailrevealer View Post

                Man I'm losing it. I though the thread was about Benny Hill. I thought the English comedian got saved and went on a Christian tv station.
                Maybe you saw this video...?

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          • Profile picture of the author Patrician
            I am a born again Christian and With all due respect, Benny Hinn is the most oily snake I have ever seen - he literally makes my skin crawl.

            Nearly as bad though not as 'successful' is Robert Tilton. I have actually seen his horns - no joke. Read up on this guy - he is a blatant scam artist who has bilked millions of people. A complete low-life.

            I don't know what the answer to the riddle is, (why); I do know that Christ prophesied that the world won't believe Him, but will believe anti-Christ readily.

            There is nothing more diabolical of all the evil in this world than these 'people' that prey on people, who although believers, have to be dim-witted to believe every false prophet. They forgot to get in the discernment line?

            This is not to say I have never been fooled before by the 'let us prey' crowd in other ways - (trusting people because they said they were Christians, or feeling like I had to be 'good' and give people the benefit of the doubt) but for some reason I was blessed to see through these particular demons like Hinn and Tilton.

            (and please don't bother with 'judge not lest ye be judged') as it is not applicable here. (resist the devil) God gave us a brain for something.

            Originally Posted by write-stuff View Post

            I'm sorry, Doug. I know you find solace in this, but the fact is that faith healing and praying do nothing more than what would be statistically expected. If clinging to this type of belief brings you joy, then by all means cling. And my best wishes to you.

            People like Benny Hinn are predators, bilking the gullible for millions. I guess Robert Tilton is actually my favorite. He doesn't bother with all the touring. He runs his business much more efficiently.
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          • Profile picture of the author Janet McLean
            Originally Posted by write-stuff View Post

            I'm sorry, Doug. I know you find solace in this, but the fact is that faith healing and praying do nothing more than what would be statistically expected. If clinging to this type of belief brings you joy, then by all means cling. And my best wishes to you.

            I think you're mixing up what Doug is saying and What Benny Hinn is doing. They're really 2 different things. It's not that God's word doesn't work, it's that people don't bother following it.

            People like Benny Hinn are predators, bilking the gullible for millions. I guess Robert Tilton is actually my favorite. He doesn't bother with all the touring. He runs his business much more efficiently.
            I totally agree with you here. This definitely has nothing to do with God's work or word. And if I remember correctly, Jesus didin't agree with type of business either. He threw the money changers out of the temple saying "...they were making the House of His Father ...a cave of robbers" for doing pretty much the same as Benny Hinn. Using faith as a vehicle for robbing the poor and gullible of their money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike McBride
      Originally Posted by John Derrick View Post

      I have never understood the appeal of Benny Hinn.
      Simple - this country (USA) is filled with simple-minded, poorly-educated people who believe in silly superstition. Just look at a couple posts in this thread - some people can't even think for themselves, but have to consult a two thousand year old book of fables for "guidance."

      Grow up and grow a pair...
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
        Originally Posted by Mike McBride View Post

        Simple - this country (USA) is filled with simple-minded, poorly-educated people who believe in silly superstition. Just look at a couple posts in this thread - some people can't even think for themselves, but have to consult a two thousand year old book of fables for "guidance."

        Grow up and grow a pair...
        That's your "polite" answer? I'd hate to see the impolite one.

        Why are atheists always so bitter?
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        • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
          Benny Hinn was exposed on Dateline many, many years where they had shown him with multiple cars (one of them was a Rolls) and several mansions. He was also exposed on another weekly magazine show. They also caught the majority of the checks and letters that he claimed he read go straight to the bank. The letters were thrown away and never read. The fake healings were also caught on hidden camera.

          Benny Hinn is one of the biggest scam artists of our time. Not my opinion but a documented fact. Even after he was outed, my father still watched him claiming he was still doing God's work. Un-freaking-believable. It's hard to remove the horse-blinds when they've been on for so long.

          RoD
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        • Profile picture of the author Audrey Harvey
          I'm not bitter, just bemused.

          However I do get disappointed when my 6 and 8 year old children are told they can't join the "club" and play in the cubby house because they aren't Christian. What a "Christian" attitude to have. I dislike hypocrisy.

          Audrey

          Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post


          Why are atheists always so bitter?
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike McBride
          Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

          That's your "polite" answer? I'd hate to see the impolite one.
          I didn't say it was my polite answer, but you're right - you don't want to see my impolite one.

          Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post


          Why are atheists always so bitter?
          Gotta love those all-encompassing statements. I could just as easily ask, then, "Why are theists always such simple-minded, bleating fools?" Or, "Why are their apologists always such obnoxious jerks?"

          Hey, that is fun - I don't feel as bitter anymore! :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author sesantek
        Originally Posted by Mike McBride View Post

        Simple - this country (USA) is filled with simple-minded, poorly-educated people who believe in silly superstition. Just look at a couple posts in this thread - some people can't even think for themselves, but have to consult a two thousand year old book of fables for "guidance."

        Grow up and grow a pair...
        Interesting, "a two thousand year old book of fables for guidance"

        I think that is a direct attack on some people. I believe we should be more tolerable in our comments here.

        Well old or not old, it has been working for me.
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        • Profile picture of the author clbnc
          Originally Posted by sesantek View Post

          Interesting, "a two thousand year old book of fables for guidance"

          I think that is a direct attack on some people. I believe we should be more tolerable in our comments here.

          Well old or not old, it has been working for me.
          That book itself is a direct attack on many people. Feel free to start with Psalm 14:1. What do the followers of Jesus say about apostates in the "good news". What are the chances of others finding their own path to the Father according to Jesus? I could go on and on. These are rhetorical questions because I have already read them, and know the answers. Please, never talk of attacks on a person while defending that disgusting book. I can't stand the absolute garbage that it shamelessly says about people like me and my family.

          Pot, meet kettle.

          To the rest who continue to blindly promote nonsense: Jesus is Lord, Muhammad is the One True Prophet(PBUH) and there is no God but Allah, God is love, the earth is 4,000 years old, Only Scientology can reveal the truth and free you from suffering, blah, blah, blah...

          Anyone still wondering how the nonsense that Hinn peddles actually works? This thread is proof enough that there are hordes of people who do not have the critical thinking skills to realize that their nonsense is no more believable than the Imam in Saudi Arabia. Enough already.

          If you are still wondering why I WILL continue to voice my view on this topic, it is because that book/mythology is horribly offensive. I have absolutely no interest in pretending otherwise.
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          • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
            Originally Posted by clbnc View Post


            it is because that book/mythology is horribly offensive.
            I agree with the definition "horribly offensive" in this sense :

            There is truth laced with lies in ALL the books. Too many things put in, taken out, versions.

            Evil says, " I will come after them in the STRAIGHT path".

            It also says the WHOLE world is decieved, so unless you live on Neptune, it means we are all decieved, even if some struggle to find truth out the darkeness. To say you are not decieved , is deception within itself. The world gets its power from our deception and hypocracy.

            Holy means not able to be tampered with by man, and those books have been done so purposely.

            King James version. What if it said Adolf Hitlers version? Both are men of no good and ungodly.

            What preacher teaches the history and daily life of King James? It is not pretty.

            So right away, there are traps. Is the jungle bad simply because it has some Quicksand and pythons? Of course not, you need a guide, but what guide points out the trap that could end your life?

            The best con in the world is to come as a nun, priest, holy man. Because people throw all there critical thinking skills out the window, even if they are of higher learning.

            Because people want to believe in "Magic", a magic wand will tap them on the head, and everything will be alright. Just believe, and magic, miracles happen, not work or changing involved. No struggle like a a new born baby being formed in the womb with bone growth popping out, strecthing, expanding, then the pain of birth. This is a sign.

            "Many will come in MY name saying I (Jesus) am the Christ and will decieve many". I go away and you see me no more.

            Mohammed the Prophet said (4) generations from him will NOT be his followers.

            Most "leaders" forget these quotes in their sermons and writings.

            Most apostles, prophets and warners condemn most of their "so-called" future followers in the future.

            Hardly anyone is following or even knows the original teachings in their pure form.

            False , confused , teaching has captured pretty much ALL the world, nothing has a bigger net.

            Christians vs Baptist, Baptist vs Sunnis , Sunnis vs Shiites , Protestants vs Catholics, Jehovahs Witnesses vs Episcapaleans , Buddist vs Jews, Orthodox Jews vs Sephardic Jews, Masons vs The Latter Day Saints, the maddness is non ending.

            If your leader cannot clearly take the laws of science and properties of say, an atom, or molecular laws and directly and clearly verify, and parallel them with principles in the books, he does not have it.

            All physical laws of creation has a higher law and reason that govern their existence and implementation. There is no contradiction in science and divine science.

            "THE" Truth . "ALL" Truth , whether science or divine MUST have a criterian standard of measure, like a ruler, otherwise, it would be impossible to judge a truth from a lie, whats real from what is imagined.

            12 inches cannot equal a foot here, then in Germany, 9.21 inches equals a foot.

            Earths Gravity is REAL and can be measured. Overcoming Earths Gravity is also real and can be measured.

            Otherwise, a lie , like fairies,elves and sprites can be easily as equally true as Demons with horns and a pitch fork , fire breathing Dragon with iron teeth and claws, talking Snakes and Angels with bird wings and feathers sprouted out their back playing harps and drinking milk and honey for all eternity.

            We do not come into existence so we can play harps for eternity, like tinkerbell.

            Snakes, Dragons, Angels, Satan, Wolf in Sheeps clothing, etc., are beast-like characteristics,behavior, personalities,mentality and mind set, describing people that are "supposed" to act human, like Aesops fables; thats how you teach "spiritual" children to illustrate a point, as an example only ,like kindergarden, not to be taken as actual, like "The Fox and The Grapes.

            "Other-worldly-characters" are examples only, not to be looking off into space, while they steal your sustenance and freedom away on this ground, but to find these traits, both good and bad in men and women you deal with everyday. Leave the spooks for Stephen King and the horror movie industry.

            Telling children about Santa Claus, ToothFairies, and so-called other "harmless" fun lies set the stage and template for a future liar, practicioner of lies, and believer of lies. And distrust of his own parents to tell him the truth.

            If your leader does not condemn ALL the leaders of the world , publicly and openly, without fear or worry to loss of favor and popularity, like all the prophets, messengers, apostles and warners did in the books, he should be sat down and silenced.

            Most of the warners were considered Enemy of the State, Enemy of the Government.

            99.99% of religious leaders kiss up for favors to some politics, mass of people or something to gain, while truth is slaughtered for comfort. They simply will not condemn all the politicians and leaders of government and religious leaders, call them out by name.

            They are usually in somebodys pocket.

            And there is not a Semenary or Temple in the world that has the doctrine or tools to break open the books.

            That privaledge is left only for the Author of all the books, manefested in one man to be looked for.

            If you are also following someone that died long ago, then you, too, will follow them to death, for dead men cannot lead the living; only the dead can lead the dead, and only the dead will follow the dead.

            These men feared no leader, no emperor, no king, no sultan, no president, no ruler,no army, no weapons, no government, no man, though most did not have weapons or an army.

            You must find someone who has ALL those qualities of these men when they were alive.

            The 13 th Warrior
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  • Profile picture of the author Audrey Harvey
    Good grief!!

    I'm an atheist, and I think people like Benny Hinn should be jailed for fraud or theft. Isn't there some law against taking advantage of the feeble minded?

    Audrey
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
    Benny Hinn is a complete charlatan and an embarrassment to all of us who call ourselves Christian.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike McBride
    Oh my, I don't know if that's sad or scary. Check the calendar - it's 2008, not 208. The earth isn't flat, either, in case you hadn't noticed. I'd rather live in the here-and-now than in the superstitious never-was-and-never-will-be.

    (Now you've done it, Michael - the villagers with their torches will be hunting you down and burning you at the stake, you heretic.)
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    • Profile picture of the author DougBarger
      Originally Posted by Mike McBride View Post

      Oh my, I don't know if that's sad or scary. Check the calendar - it's 2008, not 208. The earth isn't flat, either, in case you hadn't noticed. I'd rather live in the here-and-now than in the superstitious never-was-and-never-will-be.

      (Now you've done it, Michael - the villagers with their torches will be hunting you down and burning you at the stake, you heretic.)

      Hey it would only be sad or scary if you didn't know the truth.

      But be of good cheer, you'll be happy to know it's neither sad nor scary since Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.
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      • Profile picture of the author clbnc
        Originally Posted by DougBarger View Post

        Hey it would only be sad or scary if you didn't know the truth.

        But be of good cheer, you'll be happy to know it's neither sad nor scary since Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.
        You are right about that Jesus character. He was dead yesterday, today, and forever.

        The "myth" lives on though.
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        Chad

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  • Profile picture of the author write-stuff
    I was simply being polite to you, Doug. These kinds of debates are entertaining, but ultimately futile. Circular reasoning at its finest.
    Have a nice day.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike McBride
      Originally Posted by write-stuff View Post

      I was simply being polite to you, Doug. These kinds of debates are entertaining, but ultimately futile. Circular reasoning at its finest.
      Have a nice day.
      Ah, but you see that politeness is futile with those who've gulped the kool-aid. You just get condescension and insults in return - which is why I don't play that game with them.

      This is exhibit A in how and why the religious right helped lead the U.S. down the garden path and into the abyss it finds itself right now.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Derrick
    wow.....
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  • Profile picture of the author flnz400
    That guy is such a hypocrite. This is the same guy that was caught with an ear piece during ceremony with a lady in the rack room spitting out details about people. The same details that people filled out in prayer requests, and he was claiming to "feel" their needs and heal them.

    Idiot. The sad part is that people fall for this everyday.
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    • Profile picture of the author write-stuff
      Originally Posted by flnz400 View Post

      That guy is such a hypocrite. This is the same guy that was caught with an ear piece during ceremony with a lady in the rack room spitting out details about people. The same details that people filled out in prayer requests, and he was claiming to "feel" their needs and heal them.

      Idiot. The sad part is that people fall for this everyday.
      No, that was somebody Popoff (sp?). I remember it on 20/20. Sad to say, I saw him on TV just a few weeks ago, scamming people again. Seems like he was selling miracle bread or manna from heaven or some such nonesense.

      People want to believe in magic so these guys find large flocks of suckers just waiting to buy their blessings with cash. Part of the human condition I suppose. I'd like to say they're getting what's coming to them, but I feel bad that they're being taken advantage of. Ignorance is no excuse to fleece someone.

      - Russ
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve Tuggle
        Benny Hinn is NOT a Christian. Benny Hinn is a manifest false teacher. Benny Hinn is pitiful as are those who follow him.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
    This reminds me a lot of another guy who everyone is talking about lately.
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  • Profile picture of the author Asher
    This is the Mind Warriors forum and I believe that the threads
    should be about how to be strong mentally?

    I don't see how bashing a Christian minister can be a positive
    influence to anyone reading this thread other than to stir up
    hatred and contempt towards Benny Hinn.

    It is out of the context of this forum.

    It is against the rules of this forum.

    Asher
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  • Profile picture of the author Asher
    The Warrior Forum has an overriding rule, I'll quote it.

    Originally Posted by admin

    The main overriding rule for this forum is this:

    If you have a problem with another Warrior, a Guru, or God, take it up with them directly. Not here. No exceptions.
    Asher
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    • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
      Originally Posted by Asher
      The Warrior Forum has an overriding rule, I'll quote it.

      Originally Posted by admin
      The main overriding rule for this forum is this:

      If you have a problem with another Warrior, a Guru, or God, take it up with them directly. Not here. No exceptions.
      Asher

      lol - Benny Hinn is neither Warrior, Guru nor God!

      Will
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      • Profile picture of the author Cindy Battye
        Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

        Asher

        lol - Benny Hinn is neither Warrior, Guru nor God!

        Will
        Haha - fantastic! You almost owe me a new keyboard though! This one nearly got sprayed...
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  • Profile picture of the author aikay77
    Banned
    Mike McBride,

    Be careful the way you refer ti the Bible as a 2000 year old book full of fables.

    Doug,

    I'm with you. Jesus Christ is King forever, and the same, yesterday, today and forever more. Amen.

    Ronald.

    P.S. As for Benny Hinn, I have nothing to say. The only thing I got to say is...no preacher, faith healer, or whoever can save your soul. Only you can do it...by trusting, believing and worshiping God till you're called home.
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  • Profile picture of the author Asher
    True, but what's the point of this thread?

    There's no positive impact that this thread has anyway that
    I look at it. All responses to this thread have not been
    positive ones.

    This is a forum about Self Improvement, Success, Empowering.
    Not about why you disagree with what a Christian minister is
    doing something like that.

    Let the religious forums handle that. It's not needed here.

    Asher
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    • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
      Hello Asher

      You are entitled to your opinion of course, but perhaps I should again answer. This forum is about Self improvement as you say; and as such, it is rightly concerned with such matters as belief. What you are capable of, and what you are not capable of as a human being basically comes down to your belief system. There is absolutely no doubt that this is true.

      The purpose of this thread was to ask what other people thought about the Benny Hinn broadcast; and, in particular, what US citizens felt about it. It has certainly been interesting to read those opinions including your own.

      As for your question about positive impact, I believe this thread may indeed have a positive impact in the following ways ...

      1. By alerting some people to the dangers of following such teaching - if it can properly be called teaching. Now that benefit is directly related to Personal Development.

      2. By helping people to voice their individual opinions on a quite serious matter that appears to be hijacking the Christian message. Again completely related to the theme of material success, wealth and the pursuit of money.

      3. By, in some small way, assisting China. Every $1000 not donated to the cause of taking this message to that country is $1000 better invested in my humble opinion.

      I hope that explanation helps you to understand a little about my motivation in making the original post. It was not my intention to post further. I really wanted to see what others had to say on the subject, but your comments needed to be answered.

      Will
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      • Profile picture of the author Asher
        Originally Posted by Will Edwards

        1. By alerting some people to the dangers of following such teaching - if it can properly be called teaching. Now that benefit is directly related to Personal Development.

        2. By helping people to voice their individual opinions on a quite serious matter that appears to be hijacking the Christian message. Again completely related to the theme of material success, wealth and the pursuit of money.

        3. By, in some small way, assisting China. Every $1000 not donated to the cause of taking this message to that country is $1000 better invested in my humble opinion.
        Hi Will,

        There are various teachings around the world and it's only natural that some teachings conflict with others. Even Anthony Robbins had his share of that. If this thread was about a self-help guru and the things he teaches, there's nothing stopping the questioning of what he does in this forum as it is in context.

        If you want to voice your concerns about what Benny Hinn is doing, wouldn't it be better addressed on the religious forums?

        I really cannot see how there can be self improvement in this thread. If it was a thread purely about asking what people thought, I'd probably ignore it as write-stuff suggested. But the link to the blog entry in the beginning post isn't about alerting people to it - it's about "This man must be stopped!" and "Do not give this man your money!"

        And THEN asking people what they think... the seed of discontent was planted from the very beginning.

        How on earth is that personal development?

        Asher
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        • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
          Hi Asher

          I don't know what you think Personal Development actually is, but here is a definition from Wikipedia ...

          Self-help or self-improvement refers to self-guided improvement --economically, intellectually, or emotionally--most frequently with a substantial psychological or spiritual basis.
          Thus, I think that my post was not out of context.

          Will
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  • Profile picture of the author write-stuff
    Hi, Asher. Well, why don't you just skip this thread? If it offends you, there is no one forcing you to read it. I really don't think you should be telling others what they can/cannot discuss.

    If you don't like it, just don't read it. Pretty simple solution.
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  • Profile picture of the author Asher
    Thanks for that, Will. I didn't think to Wiki a definition for
    Personal Development. Let's just agree to disagree for now.
    (Don't start me up on the "arguing on the internet is like...")

    I still don't think this thread proves to be helpful for anyone
    at all other than to stir up disagreement towards a Christian
    minister and the things that he do - for whatever reasons he
    has.

    Asher
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  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    Asher my friend, it has been a pleasure chatting to you. By the way, nice Blog you have there.

    Good luck with it.

    Will
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  • Profile picture of the author Asher
    Am always game for a friendly exchange of disagreements heh.
    Thanks for the visit and compliment, you've got an even cooler
    site than mine though

    Asher
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  • Profile picture of the author ThomasW
    Money grubbing charlatans are nothing new. Remember Jim and Tammy, Anal Roberts, Pat Robertson, Jiminy Swaggar, Jim Jones, James Dobson, and many,many more throughout time.

    Television has been their playground for a long time. Before that, they were unknown to the general public except for their reality challenged followers.

    Ther best way to handle these deceivers is for the federal goverment to TAX them!! That would end it for most of them.

    TAX THE PREACHERS! Chase the money grubbers from the temple!

    Seriously, if fools want to send money and beleive these are men, and women, of God it must be part of the Mystery!

    Keep on being the Light and take your attention off of the black magicians.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Derrick
    I wrote on my blog (see signature) about seeing a stage hypnotist perform in Cashmere Washington (at the fair of all places)

    I was shocked to see him put people under by pointing at them or by swinging his hands... or just by making a noise with his mouth.

    It looked EXACTLY like what Benny Hinn is doing.

    One lady fell off the stage and it looked pretty painful, but he told her that she would not feel any pain, and then she didn't.

    The power of the mind is amazing.
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  • Profile picture of the author John M Kane
    Hi Will,

    I appreciate you starting this thread and I have read several positive replies although Asher chose to generalize and said none were positive.

    For myself this thread has impacted ME positively.

    I've learned there is more discernment here than I originally expected.

    I have noticed some Warriors are willing to express their faith openly.
    That has had a positive impact on me. I am most happy to see that.

    Personally I feel if solicitation of money is the "main" focus for a ministry then stay clear of that ministry.

    There is a MAJOR problem in the world concerning Christians.
    It has to do with the fact that anyone can state they are a Christian.

    Well stating so, doesn't make it so.
    You'll know them by their works is true. None are perfect as well. We fail daily to do good.
    Personally I think most churches that signed the 501c3 contract with the government is no longer a place I would visit for instruction in salvation.

    The 501c3 incorporated them and they must answer to the dictates of the government or face retribution.

    I've stated elsewhere, the Bible must be studied. Few have read it.

    There really is nothing else like it,nor has lasted so long in history.

    Unfortunately, most people who reject it so strongly with such anger also probably have not read it. That isn't yanked out my behind as I ask people and if they are honest will often admit they have not read it much less studied it.
    If it would be read, you could begin to understand why so many have died to defend it.

    To make sense of our world we delete, distort and generalize what we see hear and feel.
    Generalizing is mostly what racism is. Deleting the good that someone has done from one's memory can lead to hate. And we can distort the meaning of something by not having all the available facts to make a reasonable conclusion.

    Bash my faith if you will, but to no avail, as I have faith and that means what you say or what you might do will NEVER change it.

    I may fail daily,still I will continue to strive daily for we ALL will die some day and I do believe that THIS is NOT all there is.

    My faith also means I do wish you well.

    It doesn't make me so stupid that I will forever attempt to try and convince you to be a believer. For the Bible does say to shake the dust off your boots and move on.

    The RULES of the forum were listed above as well and I feel no rules were broken on this thread.

    What is obvious to me, agree or not, is some Warriors can't NOT be hyper emotional during debates.
    One can clearly sense their anger if not their hate by there choice of words.

    I challenge you all, me included, to please STOP and consider the effect your word choice has on us all. Before hitting the Post button.

    If you really are a Warrior, to conquer your adversary, you must first conquer yourself(emotions).

    Thanks again Will.
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  • Profile picture of the author Techie Turtle
    I'm wondering how some of you feel about Islam, Mohammed and the Koran? Is that a crock of lies too?
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    • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
      Interesting stuff.

      Him and people like him are really not the problem, an obstacle, yes, but not the problem.

      The ultimate problem , evil, beast is within ourselves, look no further.

      Be very careful what you wish for and pray for. People in one way, time or another eventually get our hearts desire/goal. Maybe not like we want it or when we want it, but we get it.

      May not even realize we already got it. Or it will be not quite the way we pictured it or percieve it at all.

      We usually get what we ask for. The evil leaders, governments, etc,. only represent what we are willing to tolerate. They only mirror our evil, though we percieve it not.

      That's why no matter what time in history, or who the new leader, philosophy or way comes to fruition, the evil within comes to the fore.

      Pick any one of us at random any where in the world, and maybe the 1st 3 months or so, we may try to do good. But then the power, money , ego, influence will pull out what was deep inside in the first place. These things do not corrupt; it removes fear of consequences so the REAL person can emerge. Most of us were always rotten, selfish, un-merciful, ego mannical , self-righteous, MOFO's with a God complex.

      We justify everything we do as long as it flows toward the goal of our hearts true desire.

      What I'm getting at is it really doesn't matter what THE TRUTH is, about anything. Proof, scientific evidence, historical documented fact, etc, are moot points if it does not congeal with our idea of what truth SHOULD be and congeal with our inner hearts goals.

      We are supposed to desire truth irregardless of how horrible it is , who it hurts, what it hurts and condemns, as long is is scientifically measurable in the natural world.

      People pray for protection, then a mangy dog barks in our path and we get steammed and curse fate. But that dog was possibly put there to steer you away from impending danger.

      If we but paused, and focused as it says, " my sheep know my voice ", we should at least take a second to make sure our perception is accurate. That dog will prove that we are liars in our prayer and in what we ask for. Hypocrites. We ask for one thing with our lips, but our actions and heart are truley somewhere else.

      If I am 700 lbs. and love chocolate and junk food, and some guy with a church, a doctor with a program, or a so-called science/new discipline says that I can do exactly what I want, and it is healthy and the possiblity of getting healthier doing pretty much what I always wanted to do anyway, I would summise that finally, the truth has been revealed and all detractors are arcane in their knowledge and will fight will feavor against them.

      For instance, if it has no calories, its good. Be careful what you ask for...yeah, cake with no calories. But what else has no calories, salt, sugar and carbs?

      How about rat poisin, dirt, sulfuric acid , industrial powdered waste like inorganic fluoride, a by product of aluminium production. Whatever we want, we will find it.

      They bought politicians to unload garbage waste in our food and water we don't know about, make a profit and tell us it's good for us...even have some scientist publish crap to that effect.

      Everyone is for sale.

      That's how most of us go about defining and measuring truth. What we think it ought to be, not what it is.

      Because when we want to get laid, get drunk, get entertained, get drugs, etc,. there is absolutely nothing stopping us from those goals.

      But we seem to can't find what the truth is or where it is. A lie. We find what we are TRUELY looking for.

      Benny is only a magnet that attracts like minded dross. If you define a miracle as magic, then he is your truth.

      If you believe tinkerbell will put money under your pillow for a tooth, then you will seek any religion, philosophy or methodology that conforms to what you think truth should be.

      There are persons that I percieve to be my mortal enemy, distasteful in every sense, but I will pause for a few seconds to make sure the answer and prayer I seek may come thru them, a bum, a dog, a child, someone mentally challenged, etc., it does not matter. No matter how bitter or what the taste.

      Seek truth where ever and whoever the source it comes from, for the path toward the infinite cannot even begin without this serious character trait, where ever you or I may eventually go or even fail, it cannot start without this trait.

      I can count on one hand , literally, in my life where I ran across people with earnest and seriousnes and with all out passion persue truth; they studied the bible and all it's versions, the torah, quran, buddism and making comparitive and scientific analysis in the natural and historic world, along with other philosophies. It did not matter how unpopular or distasteful it was percieved to be...they investigated, measured, compared and question with unbias and earnest. And they were usually on the journey alone. Just that fact alone , being solo in the journey, is enough for the majority say, " it's not for me, I'm out, even if it is the truth."

      They would go to any church, synagogue etc., and take notes. They belonged to no church because they understood that the true temple is within.

      Church , institutions is like school. Once you got the lesson , it is supposed to be time for you to move on, like a bird who grows wings and can fly on his own, like your parents when it's time for you to be grown and get your own place.

      A righteous teacher in any discipline is only supposed to extract your natural talents/gifts and introduce you to yourself. He is supposed to teach you to be better than him, like your parents will do.

      Then, he is supposed to get out of the way, where there is nothing and no one between you and your maker, a direct relationship.

      If one has to keep coming back to the same classroom, school, class, church, mosque, priest, parents, politician, minister,etc,. then some one would say you are either remedial, slow, special needs education, mentally disabled or that institution and its teachers are criminally inept in their responsiblity as teachers and should find another trade, or prosecuted as frauds and mishandling and misabusing the most precious commodity in the universe.

      Such crime is worthy of a death sentence. For they are producing and enabling incomplete and poisonous product in their station of the assembly line.

      Truley educated in to start from nothing and build, be a producer, a job "maker", thats whats wrong with school and this economy..."be fruitful and multiply",....take what is here and make it better, truley, increase the good. Not to be some donkey on someone elses powerline to make him rich, and we waste away making a living instead of living. Wage slavery is still slavery.

      A PhD, Bachelor degree, multiple degrees looking for a boss. Not educated, " Trained".

      What we need to do for self improvement is so vast, we will be lucky to save ourselves. You will not be able to save anyone, as Lot tried to do. Could'nt even find ONE. As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end. Not only could he not save the city, he could not save his own wife.

      If the Supreme Artchitect of the Universe with all his unequalled and yet to be comprehended power, wisdom and force would not even try to convince them to change, he knew they would not change , irregardless of the truth. He gave them and us the power of choice and we, whether most of us know it or not, have already pretty much made our decision, no matter what happens and what is proven or disproven.

      And remember, he was God's chosen at that time and even HE had to run....so what does that say for those who are not even at his level?

      One of the lessons here is no matter what the truth is, people are hardwired to their hearts desire, proof or no proof.

      Very few of us are all about the truth, facts, brotherhood, sisterhood, true equality, true justice, true reciprocity, true peace, true sharing, true desire at wanting the best for a fellow man, truley the best at almost a fault, true love, caring, real impowerment of everyone, true freedom.

      Peace= MY "piece".

      Besides, their is more profit in confusion and chaos...peace and contentment equals less profit and markets. There always has to be a lacking, whether real or artifically induced. Very few can picture a world without commerce.... most of us believe it must be an ingredient in any civilization. We measure and model civilization by the past templates of history, which after Adam , are woefully derelect.

      At our very best, if there were no more argument, undeniable proof, fact, evidence, science that what we DO NOT like or want is the truth, we would say, " yeah, ok, you got it, but I'm still going to exercise my life style and desires, anyhow.....I just can't do that."

      There are many sects just within ONE religion, and how many are trying to get them all together to find out either who has best wisdom or piece it all together? Cause its all about power, cash and monopolizing resources.

      Even the few so-called world conference of religions and/or sects within a particular religion or philosophy are disingenuious. Supposed to be like scientist, dispassionate and humble to what the natural truth is, getting to the bottom line, genuinely coming to a consensus of the best wisdom, so everyone can get closer to the real , tangible truth of the universe, not postering and displaying academic bravado ,ego, power games, intellectual positioning for accolatedes and recognition and other sick desires and agendas.

      That's also why it keeps saying 13 disciples. Disciples, TRUE followers in heart, mind , desire, dreams and action. Sure, people applauded, listened, and said amen, and you're right when he taught, maybe even hung out and hung around and attended a good number of surmons, but still only have 13 disciples.

      Most of us will and already have chosen Barrabus.

      Over and over, the chosen few survive, and the rest of us are proven hypocrites, two-faced and liars.

      The 13 th Warrior
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      • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
        Something else to consider.

        Like the false science , among many false sciences, of Magic. One science of Deception. To decieve your physical eye. We KNOW it's a trick, but if someone put a gun to our head and try to make us figure out how they did it, we would all be dead.

        So imagine such science applied to other disciplines......and we don't even KNOW it's a trick or magic show being performed, smoke and mirrors, for instance, like politics. True brotherhood , sincere love negates such a word or science of such to exist, politics.

        Your infant cries of hunger, you feed it. No posturing ,negotiations , weighing of deals and finding who is more deserving.

        First, there is a Benny in every science, politics, philosophy, discipline and what have you, interwoven in educational doctrines and implementation of any practice and other things.

        Benny is whatever he is. But look at the multitudes that follow him and support him. That is the scariest of all.

        They are probably like us, all walks of life , skills and trades. Benny would not be Benny without them feeding his power. There's no power one has to convince them otherwise, save Divine plagues.

        Also, Benny, his followers and the like are easy to spot and pick on, like an example in any discipline.

        But the trick is to spot the not-so-easy stuff and people or things WE follow and feed power to.

        Things WE define as LEGITAMITE and respectful.

        They should be an example and mirror for our own, personal introspection.

        I used to drive and see someone in the evening or night driving without his headlights on and say, " look at that idiot, don't know how to drive", but several times I looked down and found that I , the "other" idiot, did not have MY headlights on.

        Since then, when I percieve fault in something or someone else, I IMMEDIATELY investigate myself with a microscope and magnifying glass and concentrate on my misgivings.....the person or thing I percieved is no longer an issue or of focus, only a wake up call, a forecast of MY future if I do not check myself.

        Most of us are un-able or un-willing to do that, because of course, we are better than those stupid people, right?

        Limitations of the (physical) is like the eye. Mechanically designed to look outward , but never inward.

        The 13 th Warrior
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        • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
          How evil is evil.

          How hardwired are we in our choice?

          Why things will continue to move in it's current direction, no matter what the forecast says?

          Like the so-called lowly, unimportant guy in the crow's nest of the Titanic who warned, twice, to the Captain of impending danger and the Captain said not even God himself will stop this ship( the most technically advanced,biggest and most powerful of its time) from its scheduled course.

          Not even the ship, the Morning Starliner or NorthStar liner previously was learned from.

          If you dug up Pharoh, Ceaser, Hitler, Niccademus, King of Babylon, etc., give them life and existance again and gave them hundreds of more chances, the only difference is that they would be be more skilled in carrying out there deception and wickedness, and would probably give a little more mercy, ONLY to slightly extend their rule and get slightly more time from God's wrath.

          Most of us are not much different.

          Look in the mirror and make sure there's no Benny in you.

          If you say there is none, it's almost a guarantee you have failed in the start of an attempt to start to change the world , starting from one's self.

          The 13 th Warrior
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    • Profile picture of the author clbnc
      Originally Posted by travor View Post

      I'm wondering how some of you feel about Islam, Mohammed and the Koran? Is that a crock of lies too?
      It stems from the same mythology as Hinn's nonsense. Enough said.

      I get turned off really fast when I hear/read about those that claim to be/have "The Truth". I really wish that those that claim to have the truth would finally figure out what it is. Several thousand years later and it is still incompatible claims of nonsense. Enough already...
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      Chad

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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    'Let those that have eyes see'.

    Because you are blind you are making a huge assumption that what you can't see is not true.

    Maybe we can't prove what we know is true, but you also can't prove it isn't true.

    We will ALL see - one way or the other...
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    • Profile picture of the author clbnc
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      'Let those that have eyes see'.

      Because you are blind you are making a huge assumption that what you can't see is not true.

      Maybe we can't prove what we know is true, but you also can't prove it isn't true.

      We will ALL see - one way or the other...
      Ahhh, the "argument from ignorance".
      Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      That didn't take long.

      Not to mention, the blatant contradiction of yourself. The context that I and a few others are taking "true" to include, is "proven". For something to be "true" it must be "proven". You are conflating "true" with "believe".

      Please, in all seriousness, stop trying to convince people like myself that this nonsense is anything other than nonsense.

      Like I stated in my previous post, the people who believe this nonsense have had several thousand years and still have failed miserably to demonstrate which one, if one even is, true. This is a miserable failure.
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      Chad

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      • Profile picture of the author Patrician
        It's not believe, it's SEE.

        Some can see, some cannot or will not.

        I am sorry for that.


        Originally Posted by clbnc View Post

        Ahhh, the "argument from ignorance".
        Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

        That didn't take long.

        Not to mention, the blatant contradiction of yourself. The context that I and a few others are taking "true" to include, is "proven". For something to be "true" it must be "proven". You are conflating "true" with "believe".

        Please, in all seriousness, stop trying to convince people like myself that this nonsense is anything other than nonsense.

        Like I stated in my previous post, the people who believe this nonsense have had several thousand years and still have failed miserably to demonstrate which one, if one even is, true. This is a miserable failure.
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        • Profile picture of the author clbnc
          Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

          It's not believe, it's SEE.

          Some can see, some cannot or will not.

          I am sorry for that.
          Blah, blah, blah...

          Please, present some evidence that separates you from the Imam in Saudi Arabia that can make the same tired claims yet arrive at a position that is incompatible with yours, or the Raelian, Scientologist, child with Santa, pagan and fairies, etc. They all `see` something different than you. Maybe they are sorry for you.

          Several thousand years of nonsense and incompatible claims...
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          Chad

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      • Profile picture of the author Subcitizen
        That guy gives me the creeps. He gives Christianity a bad name!
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      • Profile picture of the author Hyaku_Man
        I once went to a service held by Benny`s brother Henry Hinn in Vancouver. It was the most psychologically manipulative church service I`ve ever been to. When they passed around the donation plate he would look at people who didn`t empty their pockets and "Greed is a sin that God will not overlook!" and things like that. At one point my group was feeling uncomfortable, so we stood up to leave and he looked at me (then a 17 year old kid, and the person in my group sitting on the aisle) with a peircing gaze and shouted into the microwave "You`re not leaving yet. People are being saved here! You are staying." I don`t know quite know why but I did stop from leaving, and since I was the one with the aisle seat nobody else could leave. Finally my group pushed me into the aisle and we all left, but for a minute I was frozen by the guy.

        I`m sure he`s using a lot of NLP and hypnosis principles to ensnare people, but using those principles to suck value from people rather than offer it. Not cool.
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        • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
          One Religion vs Another Religion........Religious people vs non-Religious people, etc.,

          What do we all have in common?

          Trying to sell steaks to vegetarians. Trying to sell ice to eskimos.

          Vegetarians vs vegans.

          Wasting time, trying to SELL the benefits of being in a butterfly watching club to beer drinking , bar hopping football fans.

          Who is truley insane?

          We think we have made it. We think we got it.

          Prophets like Lot and others, highly spiritually developed men had to run, build shelter or search out a place of safety ON EARTH, but most think some magic carpet is going to swoop down and take us away from all of this. Like Poltergeist, hundreds or thousands of GhostBuster spirits simply flying out of peoples bodies to outerspace to some WonderLand. Wait for it. Yet, we say PeterPan flying is make believe.

          The Titanic is sinking and we are like those guys who have never made it on solid ground to the other side , but will say before they even "know" it's a boat, "we're saved! we're saved! Who do we sound like?

          The cast and crew of Gilligans Island. Every idea in an episode, they are always predicting salvation BEFORE the idea is even tested and proven. No matter what their intelligence, experience or skill level . And what happens?

          They still are stuck on that uncharted deserted island. Here's the catcher....the punch line.....

          ALL THEIR NAMES ARE GILLIGAN. Gilligan only represented the ultimate manefestation of their stupidity and pre self -sabotage from their own salvation, no matter how many or the merits of reality of getting off that island presented itself. They all did Gilligan stupid things to self-sabotage their saving, whether subconsciously , character flaw...their weakness were revealed in the most critical of times, their few windows of opportunity, thats going to be us and most of the world.

          People arent looking for what you have, most don't even know what they really got, or what they really want, or satisfaction even if they get it, it is not what they envisioned it to be, regardless of religion or belief.

          If I went to a true practicing monk who uttered not a word in 40 years practicing his faith, and was a 40 year practicing fruitarian eater, I could bring mounds of stats , books, videos, taped confessions under oath, evidence and samples of the best Steak in the whole wide world and the best tasting beer on the planet......

          ......if after hours of debating use or non use of such substances, I win in proving that , in fact, it IS the best Steaks and Beer on earth, he would simply yield and say, "ok, you're right, I have no defense of that, but I'm STILL not interested in eating steaks and drinking beer.

          People find what they are looking for and/or FOUND and have in some respect what they are seeking, right or wrong, TRUTH about anything does not matter if it does not conform to their inner hearts and subconscious desire, regardless if it's good for them or bad for them, we seek and find what we want. Truth or Lie, as long as we feel justified.

          Very few in the world seek only the Truth about anything, good or bad, hurtful, helpful or if it goes for or against the very grain of our desires , vision of what should be, and goals.

          Truth seeker will investigate, in earnest, the merits of ANY knowledge in quest for the ultimate, timely and superior, and even if found, such knowledge of a true truth seeker will make him ever MORE receptive and hungery for knowledge, no matter what the source.

          If I was dying of cancer , funds or not, I would turn over every rock on the planet to anyone who said who had the cure, no matter how outlandish, for I seek truth, and in that seeking, you must hurdle obstacles and lies. But that cannot deter a true truthe seeker. Every witchdoctor and quack and pseudo science would be studied , researched, cross referenced, compared, mixed, reformulated, weighed, and tried until my dying breath.

          There is a guy who won his trial in a supreme court case who did just that. PROVED to the court he CURES cancer, and was totally exonerated, after facing a potential 20+ years behind bars, for making such a claim. Years and Years ago. But few if any will EVER hear of him, they are not TRUE truth seekers, they find what they want, like a beer, and they get it. They SAY they want to be cured, but their actions prove something else.

          There's hunger, then there's STARVING. A hungry person profess how hungry they are, but pass on the option of whats in front of them and say they will wait till they get home and see whats in the fridge. A STARVING person, true hunger, will be receptive to investigate ANY information from anyone to find anything that is edible, and will humbly do so to quickly get to his most earnest goal....he will look at a piece of cardboard, a shoe, a piece of leather, he's open to all suggestions from all comers, a true seeker who's actions matches what he profess.

          "Just tell me it's edible, man, I'm dying of starvation." ALL that occupies his mind is what he seeks in earnest, so much so, it's close to maddening. He wants it bad, and his dreams and daily actions match exactly. A true truth seeker.

          Thats why the book said everyone is sealed in their mind of whatever their heading toward.

          The choice has already been made.

          Facts or Lies will not change the course of what we really want , our hearts desire.

          We do not want to know or care what is truth and reality, OR what IS....we want what we want , period, logical or illogical, real or imagined.

          That is why it was demonstrated to Lot not to worry about (selling) those people on anything.

          A chance or choice given to most of us to do something that we have NO intention of doing at all is really no choice or chance at all. A moot point. The decision has been made by us all, whatever the truth is or is not. The decision may have been made before birth. Sins of the Fathers and Mothers. Attributes, traits, willful disobedience, rebellousness and others, can be passed on like other traits. Thoughts are real things.

          We seek only justification of what we desire.

          And even some of our actions do not match what we say with our lips.

          Even the sinful things we SAY we want to accomplish does not match our everyday actions and where we put our money to match our mouth..., ...wow.., even on that base level, we are hypocrites.

          Many are called, few are chosen.

          Most will not even save themselves, we think left is right and right is left.

          People are expecting a Steven Speilberg DreamWorks OuterSpace , DisneyLand , Cecil B. Demile , unicorns with wings, elves , fairys and gnomes to appear, something beyond even the imagination of cartoons or Rod Serling.

          It is simply going to be as real as War, Civil War, Drought, Famine,etc., simply extra, extra intesified and come in record breaking , ever more intense degrees, in the coming months and years, then culminating all at once.

          Do not expect magic, merlin or flying spooks. No fantastic Star Wars episode. Or something intangible.

          The true horror is that we have been staring at it and seen it coming all along , and will not actually believe it until it is in our lap, like the world economy, for starters.

          All this, and the tip of the ice berg of whats coming is still about a foot below the water.

          When the actual iceburg emerges, hearts will fail, because we knew it was there all along and possibly preventive.

          The simplicity and REAL-NESS will be the most maddening of all.

          The 13 th Warrior
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  • Sometimes you just have to leave the punishment to God, why big time preachers need so much money is beyond me. But it does cause trouble around the country in home town churches because I notice a trend of pastors wanting to be paid a lot of money.
    Many times I wonder if a pastor is really a man of God, or is preaching to them just another gig.
    I know there are many good pastors, but there are many who think they are super stars for Jesus, and I am talking about in the churches in communities, not just in T.V. Land....
    Everytime I hear a pastor can't live on less than 100,000.00 a year, I think he's in it for the money....I mean really they preach 30 mins twice a week, and get 100,000.00 a year of more?....and what does Benny Hinn get 1 Million pulse a year?....sure seems like a lot of needy people are missing the boat here, the preachers get the money and the left over scraps go to those in need....I think any pastor making more than 40,000.00 a year is a very unfair person and not a true servent of God.
    The Lord wants people who serve Him with all there heart, and it has nothing to do with money.
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  • Profile picture of the author scottwood1986
    Just seems like one huge scam! You should see the houses / cars that these so called "Religious" men have... they just use peoples 'need' for salvation as an excuse to scam people out of their hard earned cash!
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  • Profile picture of the author DougBarger
    Jesus did and continues to do many infalliable proofs.

    If you study the bible, you'll see prophecies from hundreds of years before being fulfilled to the letter as no human could. Jesus is fully human and fully God.

    The bottom line is you don't tell God how He must prove something to you.

    He owes you nothing...He's God. You owe Him everything, you're his creation.

    If someone is so arrogant that they think they are God themselves or somehow smarter than God Himself,

    it just proves their stupidity.

    When the Lord returns, the word of God clearly tells us that every eye will see him.

    And the staunchest atheist along with satan himself will have to do what

    every other creation will do and bow their knee while saying Jesus Christ is Lord.

    It's the truth you know that sets you free.

    Until you know Him, you'll continue to be bound by deception despite a whole eternity filled with proofs.

    Your senses are not and never will be God.

    Calculations are not and never will be God.

    God is God.

    The only way to Him is the way He says, Jesus Christ His son.

    There's not 2 ways and there's not 2 truths.

    There is one truth and one way to the Father, His son Jesus Christ.

    Every thought that dares to exalt itself against obedience to that truth

    is cast down and exposed as a defeated lie and mere doubtful disputation.

    Even the devils know the truth and trembles.
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    • Profile picture of the author write-stuff
      Originally Posted by DougBarger View Post

      Jesus did and continues to do many infalliable proofs.

      If you study the bible, you'll see prophecies from hundreds of years before being fulfilled to the letter as no human could.
      That's interesting to hear, Doug. Can you tell us a couple?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike McBride
    Every thought that dares to exalt itself against obedience to that truth

    is cast down and exposed as a defeated lie and mere doubtful disputation.
    It often appears that any thought at all is "cast down" by the true believers. Why think at all when you can just bleat along, meekly following the "teachings" of those whose only job is to milk the followers for all they're worth?

    BTW, that's not the devil trembling - that's me laughing my ass off.
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    • Profile picture of the author DougBarger
      Originally Posted by Mike McBride View Post

      It often appears that any thought at all is "cast down" by the true believers. Why think at all when you can just bleat along, meekly following the "teachings" of those whose only job is to milk the followers for all they're worth?

      BTW, that's not the devil trembling - that's me laughing my ass off.


      That's yet another problem with being led by senses instead of the Spirit of God.

      The only foundation you have with carnal or (thinking centered only on the senses) is what "appears" or what "seems" instead of knowing of a truth.

      Sensual thinking catering only to the five senses isn't the same as spiritual thinking which involves the human spirit recreated by the Holy Spirit a miraculous transformation of spirit known as the second birth or being born again.

      Your senses can actually be trained to discern good from evil, truth from deception, victorious Christ birthed from defeated satan's lies.

      See by insisting on thinking centered only on the senses and natural,

      you miss out on God breathed thoughts which are greater than the natural,

      just as the creator is greater than the creation He made.

      That's why when miracles happen, it doesn't make "sense" because

      it's the hand of God moving in to supercede natural laws with His supernatural laws.

      It's not natural to live holy, it's spiritual.

      It doesn't draw attention to a man, except the man Jesus Christ,

      because anyone can come to Him and be accepted and when He uses you,

      it's all for the Father's glory anyway, so nobody really takes the credit but gives it to God where it belongs cause without Him, we could do nothing, would be nothing, would have nothing and there would be nothing anyway.

      The lifestyle that reigns in this earth is the life of holiness.

      The vocation of the apostle is to found churches and establish pastors, prophets, evangelists and teachers in the work of the ministry of making disciples.

      It's not milking anyone for all their worth, but rather, equipping everyone

      with the milk of the word and the meat of the word for victorious living

      in union with Christ and God the Father who is the most worthy.

      Without being led by the spirit or asking the Lord Himself what the job description is for those He calls to serve Him,

      then it is fruitless.

      To truly bear eternal fruit, you must be born again, stay on the vine (Jesus Christ) and allow His life and spirit to flow through you as a branch.

      All that don't bear fruit are cast away as sticks to be burned.

      When we do bear fruit, the Father prunes us and makes us clean by His word to equip us to bear more fruit.

      Unless we are united with the vine, then we can do nothing.

      When you consider that the things you can see are made of things

      that you can't see through the word in the spirit,

      then you can see how it is that it is the word of God that frames the universe. (uni-verse).


      For instance, with a business plan, you count the costs, identify your mission, set objectives, etc.

      Those are the words that frame it.

      Then based on the words, you begin to build upon that foundation

      and the fruit of the entity of the business is born.

      The Father's objective is to create children who could fellowship with Him.

      He also reconciled all things to Himself through Jesus who is the word who has abided from the very beginning and through Him all things were made including the world in which we now live and the one to come.

      He won back through shedding His blood everything we as humans had forfeited through disobedience previously.

      Now He has reconciled all things back to Himself through Jesus who is also His living word, He always only does the will of the Father God and obeys perfectly His commandments and though fully human, also fully God,
      the living word of God.

      He destroyed satan when He made an open show of the little devil and even death when He laid down His life to destroy the one who brought death into the world and he whipped satan's ass (crushed his head),

      took back the keys from him and then gave them to us who believe

      after the Father resurrected Him back to life through the same spirit

      of life who quickens us now who believe.

      He IS the resurrection and the life.

      So yeah, he stripped satan of all power so the only thing satan can do

      is try to deceive people.

      Since Jesus is the light and the truth, he has the authority and the power along with the right given to Him by God the Father to destroy even

      the power of deception and to break the bondage of sins that would

      try to deceive God's children.

      So it's really a choice once you know the truth to accept the truth and live or to reject your only hope of eternal life and die in sin deceived and tormented.

      That is the one choice as set before us by the only One who will ever have the authority and power to set that choice before us and to back it up the results based on whether we choose life and blessing (to be spiritually minded is life and peace) (He who has the Son has life)

      or to choose death and curse. (To be carnally minded is death) (He who does not have the Son does not have life)

      Laugh now if you will, but be assured the only folly is in making the wrong choice and the only true wisdom is in choosing life and blessing.
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  • Profile picture of the author DougBarger
    Actually Jesus had a treasurer too during his earthly ministry before His ascension to the right hand of God where He sits on the throne and guiding by His Holy Spirit. Remember Judas? That was his treasurer for His ministry.

    Now He is present in believers via the Holy Spirit and leads by His Spirit and word.

    When you receive the mind of Christ, you actually have access to the most creative, life giving thoughts on earth or anywhere in the universe for that matter...the creator Himself.

    Without being united as one with the creator and His life-giving, regenerating thoughts by the quickening of the spirit,

    there's nothing creative or powerful at all, just regurgitation of lifeless thoughts.

    He threw out the money changers because they were selling their own goods which were

    completely unrelated to ministry inside the temple dedicated to the Lord.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Your ignorance is only superseded by your arrogance.
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    • Profile picture of the author clbnc
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Your ignorance is only superseded by your arrogance.
      "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Jesus
      John 14:6

      And I am arrogant? Ha ha ha... seriously, that is hilarious. Unfortunately, I do not think you were trying to be funny.

      I'll leave the irony of the "ignorance" comment speak for itself.

      Casting stones are you? I wonder if Jesus had anything to say about that... (I already know the answer, do you?)

      About the prophecies nonsense... Islam makes the same claims. You still have not showed a single thing to separate your nonsense from theirs. Thousands of years you guys have had and failed miserably.
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      Chad

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  • Profile picture of the author ArTsYwRiTeR
    I am curious about Benny Hinn... I will watch him first before I conclude.
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  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    It has been an interesting debate - I hope you will agree - and I am certainly interested to hear the views of others, whether or not they correspond to my own thinking on the matter.

    At times, it seems we were talking about the wider issues of faith/religion versus atheism; which, in my view is also a kind of faith in it's own right. I had not intended that in making the original post, but I suppose it is perhaps inevitable when people insist they know the truth.

    My own understanding is that the Bible (and by the way I have read it - in it's entirely) does not require Christians to be so dogmatic in the expression of their faith; and I think that people of other faiths and those with no faith might be more open to the debate if a less dogmatic stance were taken.

    Meanwhile, I do really believe that performers - I am not really convinced you can call this sort of thing preaching - engaged in this kind of activity do nothing but damage to Christianity ...

    Benny Hinn - Has Anyone Got a Good Word?

    Will.
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  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    I just received this comment on my blog ...

    At 8:07 PM, Blogger Caron said...

    Mass delusion, indeed! Justin Peters is an expert on Hinn, etc. Check out the video on his site at:

    Justin Peters Ministries

    Peters gave his full length seminar at my church and comes highly recommended by my pastor, Dr. John MacArthur.
    I have just watched the video at the site, which you can see here ...

    http://www.justinpeters.org/Chapel.wmv

    A very interesting talk; and I find it very refreshing to see that discernment does appear to be alive and well in the US after all.

    Will.
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    • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
      Just seen a piece on Jim Jones and Jonestown, Guyana.

      Ask folks that follow Benny and the like, they would probably say their leader is not like that and that they are not THAT gullable. :-)

      None of us are that gullable, are we? OUR leader and religious beliefs are TRUELY different and real, right? No need to keep our ears and eyes open to study nothing else.

      Fresh ice cold Kool-Aid for everybody, step right up. :-)

      What's your favorite flavor, what flavor you like?? :-)

      The 13 th Warrior
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      • Profile picture of the author rcm3rd
        [QUOTE=

        None of us are that gullable, are we? OUR leader and religious beliefs are TRUELY different and real, right? No need to keep our ears and eyes open to study nothing else.

        Fresh ice cold Kool-Aid for everybody, step right up. :-)

        What's your favorite flavor, what flavor you like?? :-)

        The 13 th Warrior[/QUOTE]


        I like cherry personally, but , anyway.

        people are gullible when they are in pain.

        That's when most people fall prey to guys like Hinn
        and others when they feel lost and empty.

        This is a great topic for this forum because the answers
        are inside us not in some body else.

        We all need help, or at least I do (a lot of it at times)
        but when people start feeling like someone else has "the answer"
        look out.

        But aside from rip off artists like Hinn there are more
        subtle ways certain groups can be destructive

        I'm not knocking any religion or any other group if they are inclusive.

        but so many time you see people that have found the "way".

        excluding people for not also finding the way or believing what they believe
        is always a red flag for me .

        just my thoughts


        Hey 13th warrior I changed my mind, do you have grape kool aid?
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    • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
      Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

      I find it very refreshing to see that discernment does appear to be alive and well in the US after all.
      I spent 18 years in pastoral ministry in conservative Christian churches. I am still a conservative Christian. My main niche is other conservative Christian pastors. I say all that to let you know that I am vastly familiar with this groups of folks, and I can tell you without any hesitation that the vast majority of ministers and church members (at least those who are aware of him) also think that Benny Hinn is a complete fraud and an embarrassment to Christianity. He proclaims things that are in complete contradiction to the Bible, has made numerous false prophecies, performs fake "miracles," and has been proven to be taking people's money for uses other than that it was intended for. The only thing worse than a charlatan is a religious charlatan.

      Barry
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  • Profile picture of the author Glenny61
    I think a more useful question is can we actually learn anything from Benny Hinn?

    The guy obvioulsy has his stuff together to be able to do what he does and influence and persuade (rip off) his flock. But surely where the teaching is here is, is there anything of worth in how he does what he does that we might be able to discuss in relation to marketing selling and influence.

    Glenn
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  • Profile picture of the author SusanUSA
    Philippians 4:8
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    • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
      Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

      Hi Asher

      I don't know what you think Personal Development actually is, but here is a definition from Wikipedia ...



      Thus, I think that my post was not out of context.

      Will
      Will,

      I do believe spirituality IS involved with personal development, but we DO NOT need to know peoples religons. I won't voice my opinion as I would offend the hundreds, or thousands, of different "sub" divisions of Christianity or whatever the main religion is.

      And why are there so many sub divisons anyways? Whats really true?

      Religion serperates people. Look in the past how religion causes war. Proof right there.

      We are all spiritual beings and no religion is better than the other. If you think you're trying to save someone, convert someone, think you're religion is "the only way" (great marketing tactic) or think you must be involved with your group of religious people to have a good afterlife- you are being manipulated by man.

      Religion is a mask on spirituality.

      Religion can be good, but it can be dangerous, because it is manipulative in the wrong hands. And I've seen religion interfere with politics and that is disgusting.

      This form should focus on spiritual growth, but by no means should mention religion. <--- You do not need religion to talk about spiritual growth. Do not confuse them..

      If you like religion and enjoy the people surrounding you then more power to you.

      If you think you need religion to go to heaven, or to be "loved" by god, or you think you actually have to "worship" god, then you've felt the effects of powerful, human manipulation.

      Religion is man made- a human conception. - Spirituality is not man made.

      I don't mean to offend anyone, but the bottomline is this:

      Why go through a middleman (religion) when you can connect directly with your higher-self, god, with all your natural, born given abilities?

      Question to the religious people:

      Religion uses spirituality as a foundation - with different concepts for different religions. There are MANY religions.

      Spritituality does not need religion.

      Do you agree? If yes or no, why?

      If you think you need religion to be spiritual- your trapped in there manipulation cycle. And this is dangerous.

      If you tihnk you do not need religion to be spiritual and you are religious, why? Support group? Like the people? I'm sure there are many reason.

      I hope your not the religious type that thinks I NEED your religous group to have a good afterlife - If this is not you- then this post doesnt matter.

      " if it doesnt apply- let it fly"

      Religion is both Postive and Negative- I just don't want to see my warrior friends brainwashed to an extent where they feel they need to to convert everyone because they think "there way" is the "only way".

      Another question:

      Why do people call preists "Father"? ( i bet you never guessed, just how persuasive, relgion really, is) Figure that one out...

      ------

      BTW- I do enjoy watching Joel Osteen and creflo dollar as there is much truth in there (and others) teachings...
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      "One Man's Ceiling is Another Man's Floor
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      "I Pay Less Attention to What Men Say. I Just Watch What They Do."
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      • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
        Originally Posted by MaskedMarketer View Post

        Will,

        Religion serperates people. Look in the past how religion causes war. Proof right there.
        I have lost count of how many times people have said that over the years. It's completely wrong of course - IMHO - religion does not cause wars - intolerance does.

        Will
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
    MM,
    I'm curious as to why you feel that religious people are wrong to make judgments concerning others beliefs, yet you have no trouble making judgments against religious people and their beliefs? Aren't you both doing the same thing?

    Barry
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  • Profile picture of the author DirectoryKing
    I think the man is a fake. That is just my 2 cents. I could be wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author jgand
    I wouldn't blame Benny Hinn, people want to believe and he gives them something to believe in. Now I know better, but a lot of people need that in their lives. It's sad when it takes away from peoples wealth though. But again everyone has a choice.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Henderson
      Originally Posted by jgand View Post

      It's sad when it takes away from peoples wealth though. But again everyone has a choice.
      Including Benny Hinn. And he chooses to exploit people's weaknesses.
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  • Profile picture of the author CJ2010
    Weather Benny Hinn is of God or not, we should pray for him that God will manifest His will in his life. The Word of God says "Do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm." Psalm 105:15

    If he is a true prophet of God, all the negative talk about him will come back on whosoever speaks that of him.

    If he's not of God that too will also come to surface. In this day and time, we need to focus more on our salvation. We will know them all by the fruit they bear. We're suppose to love one another with Godly love.

    One thing about it, everyone of us has twiggs in our life. When we point at others, looking at their faults, then those twiggs become logs.

    GBU all...

    CJ
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  • Profile picture of the author AlveenX
    This is a very interesting thread, I must say!

    I didn't expect to find it on WF!
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Wow wow wow. I didn't think this darker part of the Warrior Forum existed. Everyone seems so mild mannered elsewhere. I would rather not jump into this discussion, just wish you would all tone it down a little bit.
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  • Profile picture of the author truehs
    Benny Hinn = Total Nut Job!
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Benny Hinn is a great marketer.

    He knows what his audience wants, and sells it to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author focused
    Yeah, Benny Hinn is a real trip.
    He really rakes in the dough from people who want to fund his extravagant life style.
    As PT Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute," or something like that.
    And Hinn isn't the only one raking in the dough.
    All the big time televangelists like TD Jakes, Joyce Meyer and Joel Osteen live high on the hog, so to speak.
    And they're always begging, begging, begging for more money.
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  • Profile picture of the author magnates
    Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

    I just wondered if anyone here saw Benny Hinn's appeal on God TV last night; and, if so, what you thought of it. This morning I felt compelled to write a Blog article about it - you can read it here ...

    Benny Hinn - This Man Must be Stopped!

    I am interested in what people have to say about the appeal itself and particularly interested in the opinions of US citizens on this kind of broadcasting.
    Persoanlly , I think Benny Hinn is just begging for money . He is not the first to do something like that .

    this is not what Jesus about . Have you ever read anywhere in the Bible where Jesus was asking for money ??

    A lot of televangelist are not really for the right reason but to reach millions of people and make money that way . I stopped watching God Tv because lot of their program just seem like they more concerned for money than God

    That is not Jesus is about

    Plus the whole story about "Give us money and God will be bless you " is only half of the story . Giving gets you more but you need to give products and services that help people

    God wants to bless the work of hands . So create products and service that blesses others


    Just saying ...
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