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Can you give too much?

by Vanessa Reece
24 replies
I was thinking of the concept of over delivering and giving more than say you're going to give because it feels really good and from a prospect point of view it can instill trust, sales etc.

Just recently I've had several offline clients just expect free time, free knowledge and general help for nothing because they got extra of all of those things in the beginning. I've had to kindly tell them that unless they pay me for extra work time they can't have it, yet some of them are so thick skinned they just don't get it. I've seen their businesses do well while I'm trying to re-invest in mine and make headway, particularly in my online marketing.

Now trust me I'm not sitting here feeling sorry for myself because I know these people are not the majority and many of my clients do appreciate me but I wondered does over delivering with firm boundaries to begin with work best?

Is there any difference between offline and online mentality when it comes to over delivering?

Your thoughts are welcome.

V
#give
  • Profile picture of the author mbnuqui
    Yes, I think that is what you need to do with those type of clients...overdeliver but with firm boundries. I think offline and and online is the same. Just my opinion =)
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
    Originally Posted by ITS-V View Post


    Just recently I've had several offline clients just expect free time, free knowledge and general help for nothing because they got of extra of all of those things in the beginning.
    V, you're starting people off by giving away a bunch of stuff in the hope that they will turn into paying clients? Let me suggest that your idea of over-delivering is a bit misplaced.

    Originally Posted by ITS-V View Post

    ... they just don't get it.
    Maybe you're the one who needs to get it. The fact that you started this thread shows that you are. Good for you.
    Originally Posted by ITS-V View Post

    Is there any difference between offline and online mentality ...?
    No. People are the same. Period!

    Let me suggest that this problem for you comes from your model of over delivering. That model is leaving you wide open to being ran over by cheap SOB's that are never going to pay for much of anything.

    Hmm... I wonder if there are other ways of over-delivering while filtering out the people that you don't want as clients?

    I'm just thinking.

    Joe Mobley
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    • Profile picture of the author Vanessa Reece
      Joe you speak a lot of truth there. I want to clarify though....

      V, you're starting people off by giving away a bunch of stuff in the hope that they will turn into paying clients?
      When I first started offline coaching I over-delivered to the first few clients I got - as in I gave them some free time, set up some extra things for nothing, because those clients said they had a super low budget, (I later discovered these clients were actually penny pinching at my expense) Lesson learned.

      I truly wanted their businesses to succeed marketing them online and if I'm truthful the part of me that said, "this could get me some referrals" came secondary but it did lead to more clients. As I went through my journey of building up a client base (which some people here know) I did it very quickly. Hence why I came off the WF for a bit because I was really getting busy.

      And this is probably a good lesson for anyone who has 'clients' I learnt to be a lot stricter with my time and charging for everything I did. One client who I ironically didn't try and impress with anything still ended up wanting free consultation time etc and that was unlucky for me because I found out in my networking circles they expected this from others. I must have lost over a grand letting them go but it felt good to do (not for my bank account but for me personally)

      My most recent clients have been the diamonds and expect nothing for free and I've haven't given anything for free either There is respect and I think that's also a factor. If some clients think they can walk over you they will.

      I guess what prompted me to write this was the fact that an early set of clients have just come back to me on and off promising they will have the money to pay to do x,y,z but don't have the money right now (but they've managed to go on two vacations this year already) LOL Can you believe their cheek? I know they've made sales because of what I've done and increased their business profits.

      Flip to my online coaching where I give a lot of info for nothing I'm seeing nice affiliate conversions and online coaching gigs with no one asking for more. So Joe, I was really trying to get my head around the difference between over delivering online or offline and opening up the debate if others found they had the 'over deliver syndrome'

      It's a very fine balance being approachable, kind, blah blah and being used a doormat and its easily done in the beginning when you start out because you really want to impress.

      And you knocked it on the head Joe when you said 'maybe you need to get it' I think I have and I'm just dealing with the aftermath of past actions from a small minority.

      Thanks so much for your thoughts. I don't mind people being honest.

      V
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      • Profile picture of the author Edie47
        Originally Posted by ITS-V View Post

        ...When I first started offline coaching I over-delivered to the first few clients I got - as in I gave them some free time, set up some extra things for nothing, because those clients said they had a super low budget, (I later discovered these clients were actually penny pinching at my expense) Lesson learned.

        I truly wanted their businesses to succeed marketing them online and if I'm truthful the part of me that said, "this could get me some referrals" came secondary but it did lead to more clients...

        I guess what prompted me to write this was the fact that an early set of clients have just come back to me on and off promising they will have the money to pay to do x,y,z but don't have the money right now (but they've managed to go on two vacations this year already) LOL Can you believe their cheek? I know they've made sales because of what I've done and increased their business profits.
        V
        When people are first starting out and no one knows who they are they, giving a little more in order to gain clients, work, etc. is necessary. But there soon comes a time when you must do what is best for you and your business.

        That is not to say you can give a little extra when you choose to, but to have people coming back and expecting you to keep giving them something for free is so wrong on their part. Then you need to start setting boundaries, especially in your example above where they say they don't have the money but have taken a couple of vacations (that's why they don't have the money?).

        Now it's time to say something like, "Well, when you do get the money let me know and I will ...."

        There are people who will take as much as they can from you until you set boundaries with them. While you may lose customers because of your stance, you will gain self-respect and new, quality customers as a result. Don't waste your time on those who want to take, but not give. Open up that space for the good that is coming to you in the future.
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        • Profile picture of the author Vanessa Reece
          Originally Posted by Edie47 View Post

          When people are first starting out and no one knows who they are they, giving a little more in order to gain clients, work, etc. is necessary. But there soon comes a time when you must do what is best for you and your business.

          That is not to say you can give a little extra when you choose to, but to have people coming back and expecting you to keep giving them something for free is so wrong on their part. Then you need to start setting boundaries, especially in your example above where they say they don't have the money but have taken a couple of vacations (that's why they don't have the money?).

          Now it's time to say something like, "Well, when you do get the money let me know and I will ...."

          There are people who will take as much as they can from you until you set boundaries with them. While you may lose customers because of your stance, you will gain self-respect and new, quality customers as a result. Don't waste your time on those who want to take, but not give. Open up that space for the good that is coming to you in the future.

          What a fantastic response Edie! That is exactly how I feel. I think I'm weeding out the past 'takers' now and in fact I spoke to one yesterday and addressed several things that really made my eyes twitch.

          Then came the, 'well I have the money now.' And you have to be careful of that too because some clients will keep you on a hook with promises as long as they can. My view is that it's no good 'telling' just to keep people sweet you've got to do some 'showing'. Anyway I felt much better that I firmly put my foot down and told them that honestly I wasn't interested going beyond what I had done.

          Some would say maybe I'm cutting my nose off to spite my face but I think you can tell a measure of a client after the first check hits your account. My problem was I ignored my gut instinct with the few that did a lot of talking and not enough walking.

          I think when you learn to walk away from some people's money, because you know long term its not going to make you happy, that's when you can say I value yourself.

          V
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Originally Posted by ITS-V View Post

    I was thinking of the concept of over delivering and giving more than say you're going to give because it feels really good and from a prospect point of view it can instill trust, sales etc.

    Just recently I've had several offline clients just expect free time, free knowledge and general help for nothing because they got of extra of all of those things in the beginning. I've had to kindly tell them that unless they pay me for extra work time they can't have it, yet some of them are so thick skinned they just don't get it. I've seen their businesses do well while I'm trying to re-invest in mine and make headway, particularly in my online marketing.

    Now trust me I'm not sitting here feeling sorry for myself because I know these people are not the majority and many of my clients do appreciate me but I wondered does over delivering with firm boundaries to begin with work best?

    Is there any difference between offline and online mentality when it comes to over delivering?

    Your thoughts are welcome.

    V
    V. I use to be that way, even in my personal life, you can set the wrong precedent...I use to like giving expensive gifts and things and I like amazing my clients with HUGE favors... I sometimes, often gave till I had nothing left.

    Then my friend David said something to me, as he often says profound things... He said:

    "You know when you are sitting at your desk working hard and one of your employees comes in from lunch and brings you a star bucks, how appreciated that makes you feel?

    I said "Yeah".

    He said "John , You dont have to do amazing feats to show people you appreciate them... just something like a starbucks can make their day and it only cost a dollar".

    Another thing V.

    If you do one of those little starbucks tricks before your meetings... it will give you instant leverage from the beginning as your clients enter the meeting with oblige, as there are no questions that your intentions arent to give, from the beginning. You dont have to make that statemnt by taking a loss on a $300 service.

    Hope this inspires thought.
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    • Profile picture of the author Vanessa Reece
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      V. I use to be that way, even in my personal life, you can set the wrong precedent...I use to like giving expensive gifts and things and I like amazing my clients with HUGE favors... I sometimes, often gave till I had nothing left.

      Then my friend David said something to me, as he often says profound things... He said:

      "You know when you are sitting at your desk working hard and one of your employees comes in from lunch and brings you a star bucks, how appreciated that makes you feel?

      I said "Yeah".

      He said "John , You dont have to do amazing feats to show people you appreciate them... just something like a starbucks can make their day and it only cost a dollar".

      Another thing V.

      If you do one of those little starbucks tricks before your meetings... it will give you instant leverage from the beginning as your clients enter the meeting with oblige, as there are no questions that your intentions arent to give, from the beginning. You dont have to make that statemnt by taking a loss on a $300 service.

      Hope this inspires thought.
      John I appreciate your advice and tip, I really do.

      The last two clients came to me in different ways. One was referred (ironically by one of my nightmare clients) but they are totally different. Very respectful and have no issue with paying for what I do. Go figure.

      The second one met me during a 1-2-1 meeting where we just met to discuss our businesses and that was last year. I didn't even pitch during this meeting, we were just chatting about our work journey's, kids etc.

      Recently they needed my services so they contacted me. Paid everything, job done and have not ask for a single thing more. That's the type of people they are though, straight to the point and no messing.

      I just had a bad run in the beginning John, of people who are takers and I have to take some of the blame for allowing that to happen.

      We learn so much on the journey of dealing with people online and as well as off, don't we? I just think it appears it may be easier to set clear boundaries when you're dealing with people as a coach online?

      Cheers John

      V
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  • Profile picture of the author Gabriel Morgan
    It's impossible to please some people if you're not giving away everything for free. When I was working retail, I had some people verbally harass me because I wasn't giving them free things because they deigned to come into my shop and plunk down a few bucks.

    I like the above suggestion of offering hospitality (coffee, or tea, etc) instead of big freebies or deep discounts. Not quite sure what that translates to in the online world (which is where I am) but if I were an offline client and someone offered me a good cup of tea, I'd feel relaxed, appreciative, and ready to open my check book, because that shows me that person cares enough about my business to be welcoming when I come in for a meeting.

    If they break out the guilt trips or vague threats to take their business elsewhere if you don't ______ for them, tell them politely not to let the door hit them on the way out.
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    • Profile picture of the author ih2001
      Yes you can give too much. You cannot please everyone all the time. There are just some people that will take it to the boundaries and never be satisfied. That is life. Don't let your clients get you too frustrated. As long as you know that you are doing your best that is all you can do.
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      • Profile picture of the author lachh
        Excellent suggestion there with regards to coffee.

        Maybe it would help if you were upfront with people, politely saying in a way that suggests
        'This is a favour/this is a free gift/I'm being generous, but it wont happen all the time.'
        That way from the outset they know that they shouldn't be expecting everything from you all the time
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    • Profile picture of the author Vanessa Reece
      Originally Posted by Gabriel Morgan View Post

      It's impossible to please some people if you're not giving away everything for free. When I was working retail, I had some people verbally harass me because I wasn't giving them free things because they deigned to come into my shop and plunk down a few bucks.

      I like the above suggestion of offering hospitality (coffee, or tea, etc) instead of big freebies or deep discounts. Not quite sure what that translates to in the online world (which is where I am) but if I were an offline client and someone offered me a good cup of tea, I'd feel relaxed, appreciative, and ready to open my check book, because that shows me that person cares enough about my business to be welcoming when I come in for a meeting.

      If they break out the guilt trips or vague threats to take their business elsewhere if you don't ______ for them, tell them politely not to let the door hit them on the way out.
      Gabriel, I used to work in retail too and I very much know what and the type of people you're talking about. Oh my goodness! Some people are blatant aren't they?

      Luckily I learnt from my retail days that giving into threats does you know favors in the long run. I've never had that problem with my clients in that respect but I think some people do give into those threats because they need the money etc?

      Great points.

      Thanks

      V
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    Yes, if you give too much, if others just take from you without feeding you back, then you can deteriorate. You must take care of yourself so you can give to others when you have excess and abundance.
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  • Profile picture of the author GlobalMedia
    You can take a chance by giving too much but it is not always recommended. You will get the feel once you do it by yourself.
    Also, you must maintain the same mentality offline and online.
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  • Profile picture of the author brendan9971
    I think over delivering is great. The key is to not do it every time. So say you have a monthy job for a certain client. This month, do a bit extra and when you deliver, say something like, "Hey, I wanted to let you know that I also did XYZ as a special thank you bonus because I appreciate your business." then for the next couple of months, just do the standard work. then month 4, another bonus with a similar comment. hopefully it helps let the client know that it is a SPECIAL bonus, not an all the time sort of thing. and hopefully they'll be more likely to realize how special YOU are.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Online or offline , its not any easier to set boundires... I lose customers everyday, because they want to push my boundaries even here on the forum...

    After hundreds of "not online" meetings which qualified me to teach offline strategies which actually result in success stories instead of just people saying "It was a great read", which alot of these consultants hate me for... I can say that either way its just as easy to fall into the same trap.

    My point was that there are more expendable things to give than hundreds of dollars worth of free service, which still deliver the message "Im here to give". But it looks like you got beyond that. I guess this was an old thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vanessa Reece
    Brendan and John

    You both make excellent points. I'm glad I put my heart on my sleeve a little in this thread. I think the thoughts here are great for anyone to take note of.

    It's not an old thread but it was sparked by and a few clients who've revisited the place where they are asking me for things even though I basically said, 'that gig is up, ' and I just thought it was interesting to come on here and discuss my frustration with it. It doesn't take me long to get over things

    And John what can I say, haters are gonna hate Your advice is solid and workable if people choose to use it. That's a whole new topic all together.

    Cheers,

    V
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  • Profile picture of the author Expert212
    What I see here is, one way or other most of us go though the same situation, that's why in a very short period of time this thread has got attention.
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  • Profile picture of the author magnates
    There are different kinds of people . Some appreciate what you are doing and Some just want to take advantage of your kindness and give anything in return . It is important not to please people that want to take advantage of your good nature
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  • Profile picture of the author happyme
    I came across a thread earlier, it said this. Do each task as if it were your first. If you work like that, you will always deliver more than was required.
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  • Profile picture of the author AwesomePossum
    Over deliver like crazy..pack on an unresistable offer and give your clients the best product you can...

    Then come out with a new product or strategy where your clients can get more money and you'll convert really well.

    In the end over delivering doesn't give you the most money per client but it gives you the most clients because it over delivers and produces results....

    Would you rather have 20 stiff clients who pay $1,000 for your product or 100 clients who would gladly pay 100 for it?

    I'd pick more clients even in a break even deal because the more clients you have the more odds you're clients are going to tell others about you great services and it keeps compounding over time without fear of you loosing money on each client.

    The goal is to make the most money possible and the best products with great marketing gives you just that.

    Hope this helped some,

    Aaryn
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  • Profile picture of the author John Broberg
    Originally Posted by ITS-V View Post

    Is there any difference between offline and online mentality when it comes to over delivering?

    Your thoughts are welcome.

    V
    V,

    I think here's the difference you're looking for...

    Services vs. Products

    For digital products, like those we sell here online, you absolutely must over-deliver to give them the "Wow!" experience. However, services are a different animal. If you over-deliver, you'll get taken advantage of.

    Your coaching is a service. Be picky about the advice you get online. You've got to know if it's referring to a product or service. I'm not saying excellent service isn't a good thing, but know how much it costs you and how much you can afford.

    Did you ever see people who stuff their pockets full of ketchup packets at McDonalds? Know those types when you talk to them, and don't waste your time trying to help everyone.

    Some people don't want to be helped because they always help themselves to whatever they can.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Wilcox
    Originally Posted by ITS-V View Post

    Is there any difference between offline and online mentality when it comes to over delivering?
    I think a better question is... Should there be?

    To be successful in business it's generally accepted that you must provide value to an end customer. Can one provide too much value? Yes, if it is to your detriment. If you are providing too much value and unable to provide other customers with value then it should be clear where these boundaries exist.

    In the offline and online world one must also accept that not all customers can be made happy. This is a huge misconception in many minds. Logically one can know the right answer but mentally one can refuse to let a client go whom simply cannot be pleased.

    JW
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