A Warrior Cry: Open Letter To Future Leaders

78 replies
Dear Future Leader,

Where does one start? What does one truly talk about when there's much to talk about. For one, I will not keep this short.

I know this is not the first, nor sadly, will it be the last of this kind.

I will keep it straight, honest and with a cry for help.

I am not a guru. I don't have my own products. I am just really starting out with making money, for real. I have my own personal goals which are ambitious and I know the steps require to get there.

I have dreams and I chose to not dwell on them too long and forget to live. I know what I have to do to reach the financial success in this area, I know what to do, and I have created this sense of urgency that will motivate me to it.

Of course, there's health, relationship, spirituality and more that are all part of our great journey in this Great Hall of Life and they all need to be worked on.

And though those are big topics to discuss and they all have there places, today I want to talk about honor, respect, and ethics. To speak on one is really to speak of the other.

I look in my inbox and I see the emails from gurus. Sure, they made a lot of money, mostly off of us I say. I look at their product and I wonder the last time they even did what they are preaching to you to do.

I look at their tactics, though brilliant many of them are, you feel gross, at least I do, to take a survey to "help" someone out so he can teach us better only to be directed to a OTO that is old.

You attend a webinar only to find out that they have nothing of value to say but rather just want you to buy something.

You look closely at the email. Wait, why is that aweber unsubscribe button WAY down at the button of the page. I mean WAY down. Are they trying to tell us something here...was that a mistake?

Clearly not. They want you on their list because they want your money. Period.

They don't care for you. And I wonder if they even have any respect for themselves anymore.

And then there's this guru who said he has changed and will never promote garbage products again, how he turned his life around, quit drugs, will only provide value only to find him promoting garbage products AGAIN and pushing it out so hard that you...I will stop there.

And what about here in our own forum. WSOs after WSOs after WSOs.

Let me make this CLEAR. Of course, you should have your own products and of course you should provide value and at times promote SOLID products belonging to others, yes and yes. But be ETHICAL about it.

There's a few WSO's reviewers here...and gosh, I crack up EVERYTIME I see what he writes. I never saw him say anything "cons" and just promotes to his list. No doubt he is making money but when I saw him write a great review on a product that was CLEARLY not too good...I was...shocked.

Well, not really but you know what I mean. And what about those WSOs that, no offense, actually, yes offence, coming from those who clearly are not making money anywhere else online.

How is it that you think it is ethical and honest to go into the make money niche, create a WSO on a topic you never even tried and...AHH. Makes me angry. Why do you really do that? Why start in a WSO when you can do other things that are profitable.

Yes, there is a HUGE niche here and it is VERY profitable. But do you really feel comfortable and ethical about this? About promoting a WSO of yours when you yourself haven't done the very thing you talked about in the WSO?

Just the other day. I bought a WSO that, surprise, deals with WSOs. Without saying much, this person made a grave mistake and included a method that, well, wasn't allowed to be done.

He had to erase it and the rest of the ebook was vague and BLAH.

Can you really live like that? Oh, I know he is raking it in, I know he is...but...really?

So this is what I am asking you, future leaders, ethical leaders. I am asking you to WALK AWAY from them all. WALK AWAY from those leaders who don't care about you.

Become the one who does CARE. Become the one who will go out of their way to help someone and answer their questions.

Yes, profit. Be a source of information. Even be a broker of information that are good.

Yes, lead the people with honesty, with honor.

They want you to lead. They want us to lead.

No longer are those who claim the riches, the pirates as we may call them, yes pirates, not warriors, are deserving of this.

It is time to cry out. It is time for a warrior cry. The real warriors. The new and the old. Young and old. Male or female. To make reform. To change this all.

To not become pirates. But to become true warriors.

To live bravely and honestly.

To greet people with a smile, to give people a moment of your time.

To help those who are looking up to us.

Yes, profit BUT LEAD WITH VALUE first. Better yet, lead from within first.

Look for the real models we can learn from.

Now I can hear you say but why can't we learn some marketing tactics from the pirates? Remove the story from the tactics? Yes, you can do that but it is stained. You don't want to touch it. Don't want to even be associated with it. It is filth. You deserve better.

You are better.

So what will we take from this? What am I truly saying?

Well, let me tell you where I am heading and you decide to join me or not.

As I said above, I am not guru. However, I am a leader in my own way.

I will not fool people. I will not promote something I don't know about or tried myself.

I will provide value. I will make money OUTSIDE of the make money niche first, and I will teach others how I do it.

I will take my time to answer questions that come up. I will honor and respect each and everyone of you that join a new movement.

Yes, I will probably have a WSO. Don't know when or what. But I do know I will have tested it, tried it, and make sure it WORKS today.

I will question those who have WSOs out and I will make sure they are honest and ethical.

And oh, here's another big thing. I am a fan of education and learning. But look at what you got already. PLEASE, stop buying new WSOs until you put the work, into RESULTS.

Please get the RESULTS.

And oh, when leaving a review on WSOs, I do beg of you, I sincerely beg of you, don't leave a review say "Oh, this looks so cool and has lots of information and I know it can work". DON'T.

It makes you look lazy because it is clear that you may never put this to work, so why will you leave a review saying it will work.

Only leave a review once you got the RESULTS the WSO said it can get you.

Many times, and I mean many times I tell warriors before they release their product, why don't you give it to 3 warriors to try it out now, get the results and BAM, wouldn't that be an awesome testimonial saying "DUDE, this does WORK and I got RESULTS"...better than "OMG, this is SO cool I want to marry it"...

RESULTS people. This is what we looking for. The priceless answer. The difference that makes the difference.

So there it is. My own creed. My own letter, to myself and to the future leaders.

Down with the Pirates.

On with the Warrior.


As the Winner's Creed states:

Life's battles don't always go
to the stronger or faster hand;
But sooner or later
the person who wins
is the one who thinks....."I CAN".


I would add one more thing, the same words Conan O'brien used in his last Tonight Show:

All I ask of you is one thing: please don’t be cynical. I hate cynicism — it’s my least favorite quality and it doesn’t lead anywhere. Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they were going to get. But if you work really hard, and you’re kind, amazing things will happen.

Be kind. Be passionate.

Be a True Warrior.

-Roy Naim

P.S. Please do read through the thread and the comments/feedback from others and myself where there are some goodies there. I really do appreciate the kind words from all the Warriors who this resonated with! Thank you!

For Part II of A Warrior Cry: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...s-part-ii.html
#cry #future #leaders #letter #open #warrior
  • Profile picture of the author ShaneWilliams
    Oh, this looks so cool and has lots of information and I know it can work!
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  • Profile picture of the author SpikeS
    lol there was a guy on here who was selling an ebook he made teaching others how to make 10K a month or something insane...and his problem was he needed affiliates but didnt have any money left to get them LOL. Your post just reminded me of that..haha

    that said, I think people who aren't in the 'make money' niche can have a place releasing WSOs. Take PLR providers for example. Or I saw another provide what was essentially a tutorial on how to use cam studio for product production. I think those WSOs are cool. But yeah, if you aren't mega rich, dont sell sh*t telling people they will get mega rich, especially if thats not how you got rich (which you probably aren't!)
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  • Profile picture of the author joshcoffy
    That was defintely a good post Roy. I normally would NEVER have read something that long. lol

    But you do point out many facts and things that may appear like that. Sometimes I feel that TOP earners are sending us emails to make money (seeing as that's what lists are for,) But I also think they are trying to help us succeed. Because if we succeed in a multi-level affiliate program or company, so do they.

    Succeeding Beside You,
    Josh
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonGrimes
    Oustanding post, Roy.

    Regards,
    Jason
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  • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
    Banned
    Couldn't have said it better myself. We all know the things you said already, but sometimes we need someone to remind us to stay on the right track. It's easy to get lost in the fervor of making money online.
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  • Profile picture of the author justfun54
    Roy

    You made the Dirty Unknown - Known.
    Also for people like me who are basically getting to to know - Be Always Aware of the
    Present Moment.
    I have not earned a penny as yet.
    I have my Dreams, Goals & Plans.
    And I have wasted - a 40 foot container filled with Green Notes.
    Thank You.
    From all of us Suckers.
    We will say - It's just no more.
    There should be a way for us clients to form a Band to Ban this Scammers for GOOOOD.
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    • Profile picture of the author AnneMarie
      Hi Roy ... that was a very sincere and well thought out post. Credit to you.

      With regard to products and WSO's, how often have we purchased something, only to be asked within hours to go back and give a feedback? As you say and as I have always thought, how can we give feed back without results. Who cares if it is nicely laid out etc? Of course the way the information is displayed in the background of any product, does have its place but I love your suggestion of give it to three people and get their reviews first.

      I have become one of the 'returners' in that, if a product does not live up to its expectations and / or .... review by the 'guru' - I have so hesitation of returning it. If we all did that more often, product creators would be more inclined to ensure that their products were top quality and deserving of our cash.

      Your post was excellent food for thought and I arrived here via an email from Dr.Mani ... whose products I have never returned

      I look forward to seeing where you direct yourself in the online marketing world Roy and I wish you every success. You do deserve it with that attitude. Someone needs to say what you have said.
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      • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
        Originally Posted by AnneMarie View Post

        Hi Roy ... that was a very sincere and well thought out post. Credit to you.

        With regard to products and WSO's, how often have we purchased something, only to be asked within hours to go back and give a feedback? As you say and as I have always thought, how can we give feed back without results. Who cares if it is nicely laid out etc? Of course the way the information is displayed in the background of any product, does have its place but I love your suggestion of give it to three people and get their reviews first.

        I have become one of the 'returners' in that, if a product does not live up to its expectations and / or .... review by the 'guru' - I have so hesitation of returning it. If we all did that more often, product creators would be more inclined to ensure that their products were top quality and deserving of our cash.

        Your post was excellent food for thought and I arrived here via an email from Dr.Mani ... whose products I have never returned

        I look forward to seeing where you direct yourself in the online marketing world Roy and I wish you every success. You do deserve it with that attitude. Someone needs to say what you have said.
        Oh, thank you again for your blessing at the end. I really appreciate it and I hope I do lead with expectations and results!
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        • Profile picture of the author georgearthur
          Great post Roy and I agree 100%.

          I would like to add that posts like "Bought without reading the sales copy..." benefits no one. We want and need authentic feedback and not meaningless statements of supposed fact.

          George
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        • Profile picture of the author AnneMarie
          Originally Posted by roynaim View Post

          Oh, thank you again for your blessing at the end. I really appreciate it and I hope I do lead with expectations and results!
          I have no doubt about it Roy
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Kevin
      Amazing stuff, thanks for the tips!
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Walker
    I agree with you Roy "there's health, relationship, spirituality and more that are all part of our great journey in this Great Hall of Life," I reckon it is essential to keep all those parts along our journey, but you know what is really the most important? The will to not lose confidence in yourself, once you lose your will everything is over.
    And really great letter mate!
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  • Profile picture of the author zetetician
    A long overdue heartfelt message, that needed to be said. You put into words what a lot of ordinary, decent, sensible warriors are feeling now.

    Thanks Roy, and thanks to Dr Mani for pointing me to this.
    Signature
    Zetetic: seeker, one who proceeds by inquiry.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gladiator
    Great post!

    We need more posts like this! I also think the WSO should be re-named to something else!

    Thanks Roy!
    Andre
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Ratliff
    I read this because Dr. Mani shared it with me... and I have to say WOW...

    Nicely done Roy, this could be called The Warrior Manifesto. Good stuff.
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author Doug Hewitt
    This is probably the best thread I have read so far. Spoken from your heart. Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author dorianjohn425
      Originally Posted by dhewitt View Post

      This is probably the best thread I have read so far. Spoken from your heart. Thanks!
      Yes,yes...I agree with you dhewitt

      Good Job Roy
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      • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
        Originally Posted by vince04 View Post

        But if you work really hard, and you're kind, amazing things will happen.

        yeah right! You're kind ? In a way that your products must be useful and how can you assist your costumer on inquiring details or etc.

        Great post!
        Kindness comes in making sure your stuff is legit and is productive and helping those who need help indeed.

        Thank you.

        Originally Posted by dorianjohn425 View Post

        Yes,yes...I agree with you dhewitt

        Good Job Roy
        Thank you for the kind words. Much appreciated.
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  • Profile picture of the author cherryannml
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
      Originally Posted by ShaneWilliams View Post

      Oh, this looks so cool and has lots of information and I know it can work!
      Always the jokester eh Shane? But then again, why so serious? Thank you for your support in EVERYTHING bro and for also having this conversation with me before I posted.

      Originally Posted by SpikeS View Post

      lol there was a guy on here who was selling an ebook he made teaching others how to make 10K a month or something insane...and his problem was he needed affiliates but didnt have any money left to get them LOL. Your post just reminded me of that..haha

      that said, I think people who aren't in the 'make money' niche can have a place releasing WSOs. Take PLR providers for example. Or I saw another provide what was essentially a tutorial on how to use cam studio for product production. I think those WSOs are cool. But yeah, if you aren't mega rich, dont sell sh*t telling people they will get mega rich, especially if thats not how you got rich (which you probably aren't!)
      Now that's a funny story and sad at the same time. You know this one guy, but there are SO many who are the same. Shame on them we say. PIRATES!!! We should send them to the Pirates Forum...anyone?

      And you are definitely right. Good product can be in form of PLR and such. It doesn't mean you can't provide value if you aren't making it big.

      You can write up a report in dating because you are a beast in dating. So write it up and sell. That is awesome and ethical.

      I mean, Frank Kern, though lately he hasn't been what I would expect from a real ethical man, he is a brilliant mind and when he started out, he did in the parrot niche...he hired someone to write a book about it and he did the marketing. That is fine as well.

      I mean, even in the Make Money Niche, you want to be a broker of information, like I mentioned in my post. That is fine. You can. But be honest about it. You can interview the experts and sell it. Sure. But please, don't be a fool and say you did this all.

      Thank you for joining the conversation as you were able to point out a few things I do agree on.


      Originally Posted by drmani View Post

      Roy, amazing!

      Thanks for taking the time to write and share this. I will be pointing few people
      I care for to this post.

      All success
      Dr.Mani
      PEOPLE, Dr. Mani is a good man and one of ours.

      What he does is ethical and really about giving to people. Heck, he raises money so he can help kids. That is a good man. I need to thank Harlan for telling me about you.

      And thank you so much for telling people about this post, it means a lot to me as I wrote this from my heart.


      Originally Posted by joshcoffy View Post

      That was defintely a good post Roy. I normally would NEVER have read something that long. lol

      But you do point out many facts and things that may appear like that. Sometimes I feel that TOP earners are sending us emails to make money (seeing as that's what lists are for,) But I also think they are trying to help us succeed. Because if we succeed in a multi-level affiliate program or company, so do they.

      Succeeding Beside You,
      Josh
      Josh, thank you for taking your time to read this. I know myself, unless something is engaging, I can't read it, well, then again, I do love reading.

      Yes, there are some good people out there and they want you to succeed. And I am not sure how you succeeding will help them unless as a case study for them which they will just want to make more money off of you.

      So let's do succeed and do good!


      Originally Posted by JasonGrimes View Post

      Oustanding post, Roy.

      Regards,
      Jason
      Thank you Jason!

      Originally Posted by Joshua Rigley View Post

      Couldn't have said it better myself. We all know the things you said already, but sometimes we need someone to remind us to stay on the right track. It's easy to get lost in the fervor of making money online.
      Joshua, I myself, have doubted what I was doing. At times I said, it would be so easy to "fool" people and just make it seem like I care. But no, I stayed away. And when the time comes for me to lead the pack in a bigger way, I will lead with honor and respect. And I expect the people to hold me up to it.

      Thank you for reading!


      Originally Posted by justfun54 View Post

      Roy

      You made the Dirty Unknown - Known.
      Also for people like me who are basically getting to to know - Be Always Aware of the
      Present Moment.
      I have not earned a penny as yet.
      I have my Dreams, Goals & Plans.
      And I have wasted - a 40 foot container filled with Green Notes.
      Thank You.
      From all of us Suckers.
      We will say - It's just no more.
      There should be a way for us clients to form a Band to Ban this Scammers for GOOOOD.
      The way to ban is not to buy except from those who truly care.

      The way to ban is to succeed yourself and show them what it means to truly care.

      The way to ban is to lead the pack with value, honor and respect and that is what it means to truly care!

      I look forward to our celebration!


      Originally Posted by AnneMarie View Post

      Hi Roy ... that was a very sincere and well thought out post. Credit to you.

      With regard to products and WSO's, how often have we purchased something, only to be asked within hours to go back and give a feedback? As you say and as I have always thought, how can we give feed back without results. Who cares if it is nicely laid out etc? Of course the way the information is displayed in the background of any product, does have its place but I love your suggestion of give it to three people and get their reviews first.

      I have become one of the 'returners' in that, if a product does not live up to its expectations and / or .... review by the 'guru' - I have so hesitation of returning it. If we all did that more often, product creators would be more inclined to ensure that their products were top quality and deserving of our cash.

      Your post was excellent food for thought and I arrived here via an email from Dr.Mani ... whose products I have never returned

      I look forward to seeing where you direct yourself in the online marketing world Roy and I wish you every success. You do deserve it with that attitude. Someone needs to say what you have said.
      Annie Marie, thank you for reading and responding.

      And like I said above, Dr. Mani is a good man.

      Yes, I would love to see more and more people leaving real reviews and saying I got RESULTS or I didn't get RESULTS. I would like to see a creator of a WSO take on those 3 people as case studies and prove it works. Enough of these "oh how pretty" reviews. It is tiring and annoying.

      And you know, I don't like refunding anything as I feel bad about it except if it was really awful like the last WSO I bought.

      But this is also why CB products are not on the rise cuz' of the high return rates as well. Perhaps.


      Originally Posted by Nick Walker View Post

      I agree with you Roy "there's health, relationship, spirituality and more that are all part of our great journey in this Great Hall of Life," I reckon it is essential to keep all those parts along our journey, but you know what is really the most important? The will to not lose confidence in yourself, once you lose your will everything is over.
      And really great letter mate!
      Thank you Nick!

      And yes, it is all one big part of this journey. Tony Robbins always says, it is funny how in one area in life we may be successful and in others we aren't and hence we become unhappy...the secret is to combine success in all area and that is our journey, each in our own way.

      And yes, keep the energy high!


      Originally Posted by zetetician View Post

      A long overdue heartfelt message, that needed to be said. You put into words what a lot of ordinary, decent, sensible warriors are feeling now.

      Thanks Roy, and thanks to Dr Mani for pointing me to this.
      Thank you for the support and I do speak from having a lot of conversations on this very topic. And thanks to Dr. Mani!

      Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post

      Great post!

      We need more posts like this! I also think the WSO should be re-named to something else!

      Thanks Roy!
      Andre
      Andre, I will be posting more about what is in my heart so know that someone will be speaking up.

      Originally Posted by Joseph Ratliff View Post

      I read this because Dr. Mani shared it with me... and I have to say WOW...

      Nicely done Roy, this could be called The Warrior Manifesto. Good stuff.
      Joseph and thank you for the kind words. The Warrior Manifesto, I like Maybe I will write a longer ebook on the matter. For now, it was a CRY

      Originally Posted by dhewitt View Post

      This is probably the best thread I have read so far. Spoken from your heart. Thanks!
      Thank you and I did speak from the heart! You welcome!

      Originally Posted by sonaksh View Post

      Amazing stuff, thanks for the tips!
      Glad you enjoyed! Thank you for reading!

      Originally Posted by cherryannml View Post

      Roy, thanks for the post. You definitely made a lot of good points and I can really see your heart in this.

      Thanks again,
      Yes, my heart is into it and I am glad you took your time to read. Thank you!
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  • Profile picture of the author Spags
    Roy, OUTSTANDING post. I am honored to be in the same mastermind group as you. We hit it off right away, and now I see yet another reason why. Viewing some recent training on making products, and in particular WSOs, I heard things like "you don't need to show proof", and "it doesn't have to be a method you use" and so on and so on... I personally love little simple WSOs that teach a certain (proven) method that people sell for $7. You can't beat value like that, as long as what you learn is REAL and proven to work. If I pick up one little thing, I feel I got my moneys worth. But then often I spend much more than $7 on a WSO, or an online course, or even software, and it is............ well beyond crap. Seriously, seriously, BAD stuff. Clickbank has gotten horrible. WSOs... well there are many good ones, but there are so MANY WSOs now, you can't even keep up.

    What you said about waiting to give feedback would be awesome. I do understand how some people can leave feedback right away, if they were given a copy ahead of time for review and feedback. I just had my first opportunity to do that yesterday!

    Overall this thread says: Cut the crap, make products that are real, and care about what your buyer gets. Sell something you wouldn't be pissed if someone sold it to your relative. Sell something (or PROMOTE something) that you have BOUGHT yourself, or at minimum WOULD buy. Try having some INTEGRITY. Mark Twain said "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." This advice cold go a long way.

    It was a pleasure reading this.
    Signature

    John Spagnolo - You can INSTANTLY reach me and other warriors in my Skype Mastermind Group. Join now while my group still has room! http://mastermind-live.com

    Video Marketing Breakthrough

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  • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
    Originally Posted by Spags View Post

    Roy, OUTSTANDING post. I am honored to be in the same mastermind group as you. We hit it off right away, and now I see yet another reason why. Viewing some recent training on making products, and in particular WSOs, I heard things like "you don't need to show proof", and "it doesn't have to be a method you use" and so on and so on... I personally love little simple WSOs that teach a certain (proven) method that people sell for $7. You can't beat value like that, as long as what you learn is REAL and proven to work. If I pick up one little thing, I feel I got my moneys worth. But then often I spend much more than $7 on a WSO, or an online course, or even software, and it is............ well beyond crap. Seriously, seriously, BAD stuff. Clickbank has gotten horrible. WSOs... well there are many good ones, but there are so MANY WSOs now, you can't even keep up.

    What you said about waiting to give feedback would be awesome. I do understand how some people can leave feedback right away, if they were given a copy ahead of time for review and feedback. I just had my first opportunity to do that yesterday!

    Overall this thread says: Cut the crap, make products that are real, and care about what your buyer gets. Sell something you wouldn't be pissed if someone sold it to your relative. Sell something (or PROMOTE something) that you have BOUGHT yourself, or at minimum WOULD buy. Try having some INTEGRITY. Mark Twain said "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." This advice cold go a long way.

    It was a pleasure reading this.
    Hey bro, thank you SO much for taking your time to read this and supporting this view. And yes, we did hit it off, what can I say, must be the NLP/Hypnosis magic

    And yes, I am grateful to be in that same group as you and you may know from my posting there that I am not keen on putting out products that I am not involved with myself or know enough about. People been telling me, and I mean some experts, to just buy PLR and give it away. I mean, I bet it works but take the time to try it out yourself and make sure it works and even ADD a few things on it.

    And I am glad people like you will step up and do different. Walk away from the bad of the pirates and do what the honorable warrior would do! And love that Mark Twain's quote!


    Originally Posted by georgearthur View Post

    Great post Roy and I agree 100%.

    I would like to add that posts like "Bought without reading the sales copy..." benefits no one. We want and need authentic feedback and not meaningless statements of supposed fact.

    George
    OMG! (I know sound like a little kid), that is another great point. I mean, why not read the sales letter even if you know who is behind it? Get a feel of what you are buying. And sometime, even if I like the dude/gal, I will still question them until I get my answers about what it is they are selling.

    Originally Posted by Asad Moeen View Post

    Nice suggestions there mate.
    Thank you Asad!
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  • Profile picture of the author rickster1290
    Thanks for the post,Roy.Yes,everywhere you turn around,there's a new WSO coming out.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
      Hey guys,

      I have more to say on the topic (a lot more) but I was just browsing around checking out some WSOs (to study copy really) and I have noticed something...a REAL review:

      http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ml#post4370597

      This guy Travis, who I happened to connect with last week, was posting his daily, every few days results. This is the kind we need. Honest and to the point. And holds the creator highly responsible.

      This is what I am talking about! Thank you Travis if you are reading this!

      To make this clear, I don't know ANYTHING about that WSO, nor do I endorse it or dislike it as I didn't buy it nor know anything about it. Just making that clear
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  • Profile picture of the author Newview
    Roynaim you speak from the heart, and as I have said, when it comes from the heart it shows. Just reading the feedback from your excellent post. This is indeed the dawing of a new day, and a new way. So many people wanting to suceed, but wanting to do it the right way. Building business one customer at a time. Trying to bring quality and not quantity and a refreshing change to re-establishing, and re-connecting with customers. Honesty and Integrity. Two words that used to mean something in business, but have gotten lost somewhere along the line. This is how you up the bar and set a new standard. Thanks again for putting in words how many feel and want to strive for.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
      Originally Posted by rickster1290 View Post

      Thanks for the post,Roy.Yes,everywhere you turn around,there's a new WSO coming out.
      Indeed so, which is not a bad thing, no. The bad thing is the one that lie to you about the materials and not honest about if they used it before.

      Originally Posted by Newview View Post

      Roynaim you speak from the heart, and as I have said, when it comes from the heart it shows. Just reading the feedback from your excellent post. This is indeed the dawing of a new day, and a new way. So many people wanting to suceed, but wanting to do it the right way. Building business one customer at a time. Trying to bring quality and not quantity and a refreshing change to re-establishing, and re-connecting with customers. Honesty and Integrity. Two words that used to mean something in business, but have gotten lost somewhere along the line. This is how you up the bar and set a new standard. Thanks again for putting in words how many feel and want to strive for.
      Hey. The name is Roy in case you wanted to know

      Thank you for reading and being able to see I speak from the heart, I speak the truth.

      And I know people like us will lead the people into the NEW promise land.
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      • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
        WOW.

        I just received this email from a man who is quite famous here, multiple WSO of the Day and here is what (part of) the email said:


        I appreciate you buying any
        of my recommendations and
        if you did not- no biggie, as
        I'm glad you're here today
        to read this..

        I must admit.. I do email A LOT
        of affiliate promotions to you.

        Some are complete bombs.. that
        I think are good but end up sucking..
        some rock and I hear your praise

        Some I don't even review- If it has
        good EPC's (earning per click) I
        will mail it- Yea is that f****d up?

        maybe for you.. if you don't get how this
        business works..but if you do, you know
        that's how we get paid the most with our
        email marketing.


        And yet, people still buy from him....

        My point is made.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Chung
          Originally Posted by Roy Naim View Post

          WOW.

          ...

          Some I don't even review- If it has
          good EPC's (earning per click) I
          will mail it- Yea is that f****d up?

          maybe for you.. if you don't get how this
          business works..but if you do, you know
          that's how we get paid the most with our
          email marketing.


          And yet, people still buy from him....

          My point is made.
          What on earth??

          On one hand I guess it's refreshing that he's being honest.

          But I can't believe people still continue to buy when he openly admits that he doesn't really care about people who put their trust in him.

          Even if people continue to buy from him, when they eventually run out of money buying products that don't work, he won't be able to promote to them anymore.

          Doesn't it make more sense to help your list actually make money so they trust you more and they have more to spend on you?
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          • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
            Originally Posted by David Chung View Post

            What on earth??

            On one hand I guess it's refreshing that he's being honest.

            But I can't believe people still continue to buy when he openly admits that he doesn't really care about people who put their trust in him.

            Even if people continue to buy from him, when they eventually run out of money buying products that don't work, he won't be able to promote to them anymore.

            Doesn't it make more sense to help your list actually make money so they trust you more and they have more to spend on you?
            David, ya, this is the same guy who has a few WSO's out here too. He wasn't so honest about what he did before, in the past, he promoted garbage products, just so people would JV with him and promote his product.

            Makes no difference as he will just keep adding new people to his list. Sadly, this is how it works.

            But we can be different.
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            • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
              In regards to creating products and becoming an expert in a field, there are 3 ways to do it and here they are (something I've learned from Brendon Burchard):

              1) The Reporter: This is the guy who goes around the industry and finds out what they are doing. He interviews them. He learns from them. And he finds the best practices between them all and reports it back to the people.

              2) The Result Maker: This guy has no clue how others are doing it. But he knows one thing, how he is doing it works and it works well. He gets the results. He gets others the results and has a track record to prove it.

              3) The Role Model: This is the ULTIMATE Expert. This guy goes around, studying others, finding the best practices between them all and then goes and gets RESULTS based on the studies. This is the man we all want to connect with. Someone who knows what others are doing, found the best practices and does it himself and help others do it.

              Whatever phase you are in or going for, keep it real and ethical.
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  • Profile picture of the author mobing
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
      Originally Posted by mobing View Post

      everyone has his way !
      What do you mean?
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  • Profile picture of the author Tainted Seraphim
    Wow, great post, and I couldn't agree more. There are too many dishonest people out there trying to push products that don't work, which really makes things difficult for the honest people selling quality products. The world would be a much better place if everyone was honest.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
      Originally Posted by Tainted Seraphim View Post

      Wow, great post, and I couldn't agree more. There are too many dishonest people out there trying to push products that don't work, which really makes things difficult for the honest people selling quality products. The world would be a much better place if everyone was honest.
      Lead with love and honor, stay true to the values we know that are important and we will get far.

      And we are responsible as well to keep people honest. As I mentioned, if something sucks, call them out.

      If it works, praise them and take them out for lunch.

      Simple.
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      • Profile picture of the author newdayz
        Originally Posted by roynaim View Post

        Lead with love and honor, stay true to the values we know that are important and we will get far.

        And we are responsible as well to keep people honest. As I mentioned, if something sucks, call them out.

        If it works, praise them and take them out for lunch.

        Simple.
        like it, so simple
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  • Profile picture of the author gscottwong
    Great post, Roy. You very well may have come up with a "Warrior Code of Conduct".
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    • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
      Originally Posted by gscottwong View Post

      Great post, Roy. You very well may have come up with a "Warrior Code of Conduct".
      Indeed so.

      Some have called it the Warrior Manifesto.

      I am actually working on a longer version.

      Wish this post was actually in the main forum where I originally post it, but it seems the mods thought it belonged here, though many would benefit from it there.
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  • Profile picture of the author stopper
    i wish i could stumble this and share it will all my friends it really is reawakening stuff
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
      Originally Posted by stopper View Post

      i wish i could stumble this and share it will all my friends it really is reawakening stuff
      Thank you for your kind words and you can still stumble it, just got to plug the link into your page
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  • Profile picture of the author WebPen
    Its amazing what a little green can do to someone, isn't it?

    A few scammy CB products come out with high EPCs and all of the well-respected marketers promote them like crazy- without even checking out the product themselves.

    That said, the sad thing is that these guys are only gonna make a ton of money off their lists like this, which they can then invest in growing even bigger lists.

    So the rich get richer and the desperate get poorer.

    But it doesn't always have to be that way- obviously there are some real Warriors that really want to help folks, even if that means they don't make quite as much money.

    One thing I'm trying to keep in mind more and more in my business is this: would my family approve of what I'm doing and promoting? How about God? My pastor, or friends? A stranger?

    Thinking about stuff like this can really help you run a solid business instead of just scamming people out of their hard-earned money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
      Bravo Justin as you just told us a strategy in how to keep your head on straight when the green is flashing. Thank you.

      And yes, I hear these experts preach about G-d and ethics and the very same day tell you to push a button to make $13,785.45 in 93seconds.

      I don't need to say that cuz' we all know what I am talking about.

      Point is, and this is where I will disagree with you Justin, you can make a lot of money being honest and seriously helping people...it may just take a bit longer but you will create RAVING fans. Period.

      I mean, I know some big marketers who's open rates are SO small in comparison to their list, and yet the small marketers with a list of 10K or more have 80% or more opening up because they truly care.

      As we been saying, be ethical be real.

      Just today, upon asking someone some questions about his product, he went on saying how I am a dramatic person and think everyone is out to get me...Umm. OK I asked serious questions as I wanted to make sure this is a real guy who cares...But that's OK as I didn't buy anything from him.

      People are scared. Scared that people are starting to call them out.

      And it is time to call out the pirates.



      Originally Posted by Justin Stowe View Post

      Its amazing what a little green can do to someone, isn't it?

      A few scammy CB products come out with high EPCs and all of the well-respected marketers promote them like crazy- without even checking out the product themselves.

      That said, the sad thing is that these guys are only gonna make a ton of money off their lists like this, which they can then invest in growing even bigger lists.

      So the rich get richer and the desperate get poorer.

      But it doesn't always have to be that way- obviously there are some real Warriors that really want to help folks, even if that means they don't make quite as much money.

      One thing I'm trying to keep in mind more and more in my business is this: would my family approve of what I'm doing and promoting? How about God? My pastor, or friends? A stranger?

      Thinking about stuff like this can really help you run a solid business instead of just scamming people out of their hard-earned money.
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      • Profile picture of the author JTzor
        Well said Roy - leave it to a Brooklyn-ite to kick the truth - whereabouts in Brooklyn are you from? (I lived in Bensonhurst until about 2006).

        There is definitely a way to excel in many business ventures and be ethical about it, all the while enriching your self financial and in the other aspects of life that make one a well rounded person.

        It's quite striking what you bring up in your post - many an IMer tends to become a sort of mechanical list turn & burner - the more lists you belong to the more you see it. Fortunately i have been on a number of lists where the list owner is responsible, RESPONSIVE and cares for their list - I can name names but I dont think that is the purpose of this thread.

        I have some ideas i would like to share with you going forward if you are interested that jive with and relate to the theme and nature of this thread and I believe will take the ideas you brought up to a next natural step.

        Warmest Regards,

        - John Tzor (JT)
        Signature
        "The Path to success is not a straight line but a jagged, broken road which we must piece together & make our own."

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        • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
          Hey John, thank you for reading and commenting.

          I live in Mill Basin, great area where you are part of the action and yet have space for yourself. Different than the typical areas in BK.

          And ya, people are coming to you for help, and why do some "gurus" take advantage of them knowing they will rely on your every word while you don't care for them. It is disgusting.

          One can be successful and build a great reputation by being ethical and truly helpful.

          And I do know a few who have a responsive list as well, because they care.

          Heck, there are a few amazing teachers who their followers go out of their way to buy through their links..because they care.

          And as for your ideas, I'll hit you up.



          Originally Posted by JTzor View Post

          Well said Roy - leave it to a Brooklyn-ite to kick the truth - whereabouts in Brooklyn are you from? (I lived in Bensonhurst until about 2006).

          There is definitely a way to excel in many business ventures and be ethical about it, all the while enriching your self financial and in the other aspects of life that make one a well rounded person.

          It's quite striking what you bring up in your post - many an IMer tends to become a sort of mechanical list turn & burner - the more lists you belong to the more you see it. Fortunately i have been on a number of lists where the list owner is responsible, RESPONSIVE and cares for their list - I can name names but I dont think that is the purpose of this thread.

          I have some ideas i would like to share with you going forward if you are interested that jive with and relate to the theme and nature of this thread and I believe will take the ideas you brought up to a next natural step.

          Warmest Regards,

          - John Tzor (JT)
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  • Profile picture of the author xiaozhuozi
    Oh, this looks so cool and has lots of information and I know it can work!
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    • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
      Originally Posted by xiaozhuozi View Post

      Oh, this looks so cool and has lots of information and I know it can work!
      Funny man
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  • Profile picture of the author kytka
    Brilliant... Just this morning I posted my facebook status as:

    Make money, make money, make money... so many of the status updates are about making money - who is happy to be making a LIFE? Who is practicing mindfulness, gratitude, conscious awareness? These are the things that are most important, and yet the ones that get put aside until we get sick or experience loss... Take a moment to focus on what is REALLY important today! Make it a day to remember!

    and I was pleasantly surprised that for the first time in a long time, a lot of people responded. yes, I agree that many are sick of the same tired tricks. I have worked and trained with so many leaders in the speaking industry, but so many of them too want to create these huge stacks of value, and high end programs - that they know that many people will not be able to implement without a well designed follow up - and they sell it all day long. It reminds me of those carnival sales people from like 30 years ago - it just feels dirty to even listen to.

    So while one part of me feels blessed to have been hand selected for mentorship - the other part of me walks away thinking to myself "what could they have learned from ME?" because I have lived my life authentically, honestly, and caringly.

    No matter that I had a business partner who robbed me of 2.5 million. No matter that no one I know is willing to pay for the 20 years of dedication, commitment, sacrifice to raise my 3 children as I have - I DID IT and I DO IT STILL, because QUALITY of LIFE is a higher priority of mine than quantity in the bank account.

    Things stack - bills, money, pros and cons - that is just the way things are - but as conscious, mindful and hopefully AWAKE and ALERT human beings - it's out CHOICES that define the character of not only who we are but what we represent and stand for.

    Thank you so much Roy, from sharing this way...

    Your light is a part of the greater light of Source.

    Blessings~
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    • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
      Originally Posted by kytka View Post

      Brilliant... Just this morning I posted my facebook status as:

      Make money, make money, make money... so many of the status updates are about making money - who is happy to be making a LIFE? Who is practicing mindfulness, gratitude, conscious awareness? These are the things that are most important, and yet the ones that get put aside until we get sick or experience loss... Take a moment to focus on what is REALLY important today! Make it a day to remember!
      Beautifully said. Making money is just one channel of a great life. One area. There are many other areas to work on as well, most more important than money that is for sure.

      And love it, make it a day to remember:

      Everyday I ask myself these 3 questions:

      What am I grateful for in the past?
      What can I do to make it special for someone today?
      And What am I excited about?

      That second question, is indeed very powerful. A smile. A touch. Something to make it count.



      Originally Posted by kytka View Post

      and I was pleasantly surprised that for the first time in a long time, a lot of people responded. yes, I agree that many are sick of the same tired tricks. I have worked and trained with so many leaders in the speaking industry, but so many of them too want to create these huge stacks of value, and high end programs - that they know that many people will not be able to implement without a well designed follow up - and they sell it all day long. It reminds me of those carnival sales people from like 30 years ago - it just feels dirty to even listen to.
      Right on. I would love to see a true course with a whole follow up set up, this way to "force" people to succeed and show them "they can too".

      And 30 years ago...I am only 27...missed the boat


      Originally Posted by kytka View Post

      So while one part of me feels blessed to have been hand selected for mentorship - the other part of me walks away thinking to myself "what could they have learned from ME?" because I have lived my life authentically, honestly, and caringly.

      No matter that I had a business partner who robbed me of 2.5 million. No matter that no one I know is willing to pay for the 20 years of dedication, commitment, sacrifice to raise my 3 children as I have - I DID IT and I DO IT STILL, because QUALITY of LIFE is a higher priority of mine than quantity in the bank account.

      Things stack - bills, money, pros and cons - that is just the way things are - but as conscious, mindful and hopefully AWAKE and ALERT human beings - it's out CHOICES that define the character of not only who we are but what we represent and stand for.

      Thank you so much Roy, from sharing this way...

      Your light is a part of the greater light of Source.

      Blessings~
      Love your attitude and an amazing experience you did have and look at you learning from it and sharing it with others.

      You welcome and thank you for your time, comment and blessing.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    Roy,

    Well said Brother!

    I responded yesterday rather sarcastically (angrily) to a post with similar concerns, and perhaps should've planned my 'attack' from a more beneficial standpoint as you have done here.

    Yesterday, I, along with several others received an email concerning a certain "Guru" whom professed to have been cyber-bashed by yet another well respected marketer.

    It truly afflicts my conscience to think, I too have contemplated whether to remain true to my inherent values (i.e. virtue, principles, integrity, honor, respect, ethics, and in absolution...HONESTY!)

    Sadly, to witness these "Big Names" pushing this crap 'epitomizes' one truth; they don't care about anything, less the MONEY!

    I am truly conflicted as a newbie myself; as it challenges my entire being to remain true to the core principles I have worked hard to maintain my whole life, only to be out-shined by this brilliant display of greed and ignorance.

    Sadly, it's everywhere I look!

    From IM to my very own government....WE NEED REFORM!

    Clearly, there are too many of us who see through the smoke-screen, and know exactly what the cause is...GREED and POWER!

    All this hype of terrorism, fear, budget cuts, take-overs, and nonsense is bad enough....now to see people preying on the fallen, the weak, the uneducated, the blind and the deaf...really leaves one feeling out numbered.

    To keep this all on the same vine, I too am a "CULTIVATOR" who believes this BS was meant to be buried, and used for one purpose...FERTILIZER for future growth.

    However, with so many predator's quick to 'swoop' onto another's crop, and swipe, steal, scape, and collect the rewards off someone else's hard work, truly shows the decay of social and moral decay we are subjected to on a global scale, and the ending result cannot prosper any of us!

    Sadly, I'll openly admit to becoming a hypocrite of sort, as just yesterday I was ready to throw in the towel, and say; "Screw it...if you can't beat em...join em!"

    After sitting through endless emails from at least 4 world renowned marketer's and exploring the "same exact' affiliate promotions...I wanted to puke!

    Fake screenshots, bogus story-lines, fake earnings, and even fake tits...c'mon really?

    Nearly every one of these offers is an "INSULT" to the industry.

    The top 30 slots on CBengine[dot]com is chalked full of this 1-Click crap, and I can barely bring myself to promote a single offer without fearing I too am stooping to the desire for MONEY over INTEGRITY...kinda like the ending result of the US outsourcing us to near extinction!

    It's no surprise Steve Jobs and Apple has more $$$ than my entire Government...and he actually makes money, go figure!

    I've even questioned my sig links...just over the past month, after awakening to the realization.... is this really even worth promoting?
    1. Above The Matrix - Strong $4.71 Epc
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    While this list contains the names of nearly every TOP NOTCH copywriter, Guru, or at least several well respected millionaire's in the industry...it does leave one to question; "How many of these are pure JUNK?"

    All personal convictions aside, it has become clear...selling LIES (or at best Flattery...*the Highest form of INSULT) has systematically infected the bulk of this list.

    Mind you, I as a 'newbie' am or was rather trying to respectively 'follow' the leaders footsteps (to a degree) as a measure of emulating what I (once) believed was a genuine path to success. But upon closer look...it almost haunts me to question; "Is this really what it takes to succeed in this twisted IM world?"

    In closing, who's really to blame here?

    We live in a time where everyone wants everything for nothing....and a "Push Button" magical formula seems to out-sell the "It requires time and effort speech" for sure...

    In my most recent "Good Samaritan Acts" both online and off....it often appears -Nobody cares anymore, so long as they get what they want and in reaching out to people in an effort to actually help them...I keep getting burned!

    Leaving me confounded by the choice..."Give the people what they ask for?" (Regardless of how crappy it is....)

    -Or-

    Grind away in search for a moral and ethical way to get there with good ol' fashion honesty, hard-work, sweat, dedication, and of mutual benefit to all parties?

    Sadly, the latter has always been my priority...yet the sacrifice to maintain such values seems a dying dream, out-numbered by sheer and utter ignorance!

    Who am I to judge another's success?, or measure their interpretation thereof?, for as of the moment what once seemed a safe passage to new heights has become a sinister display of greed, power, and control.

    Hmmmmm....2000 years ago, I knew a man who was crucified for speaking against such powers....has anything really changed?

    ‪Otis Redding-Sitting on the dock of the bay‬‏ - YouTube

    "I can't do what 10 people tell me to do!" -Otis Redding

    "I'd rather die under a bridge, rich in spirit, as an honest man, then die alone in a castle lined with gold and false empowerment!" -Art
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    • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
      Thank you for the very well thought out response.

      I will say this, stick with the latter and those who are showing the respect and honor we all deserve.

      It will take a bit longer perhaps, it might even seem that you get no credit, but trust me, it will be something worth talking about because you are being different, we are being different.

      Have something worth spreading and watch it spread. Be a person worth talking about, in a good way, and you will have followers who will empower you even more.



      Originally Posted by art72 View Post

      Roy,

      Well said Brother!

      I responded yesterday rather sarcastically (angrily) to a post with similar concerns, and perhaps should've planned my 'attack' from a more beneficial standpoint as you have done here.

      Yesterday, I, along with several others received an email concerning a certain "Guru" whom professed to have been cyber-bashed by yet another well respected marketer.

      It truly afflicts my conscience to think, I too have contemplated whether to remain true to my inherent values (i.e. virtue, principles, integrity, honor, respect, ethics, and in absolution...HONESTY!)

      Sadly, to witness these "Big Names" pushing this crap 'epitomizes' one truth; they don't care about anything, less the MONEY!

      I am truly conflicted as a newbie myself; as it challenges my entire being to remain true to the core principles I have worked hard to maintain my whole life, only to be out-shined by this brilliant display of greed and ignorance.

      Sadly, it's everywhere I look!

      From IM to my very own government....WE NEED REFORM!

      Clearly, there are too many of us who see through the smoke-screen, and know exactly what the cause is...GREED and POWER!

      All this hype of terrorism, fear, budget cuts, take-overs, and nonsense is bad enough....now to see people preying on the fallen, the weak, the uneducated, the blind and the deaf...really leaves one feeling out numbered.

      To keep this all on the same vine, I too am a "CULTIVATOR" who believes this BS was meant to be buried, and used for one purpose...FERTILIZER for future growth.

      However, with so many predator's quick to 'swoop' onto another's crop, and swipe, steal, scape, and collect the rewards off someone else's hard work, truly shows the decay of social and moral decay we are subjected to on a global scale, and the ending result cannot prosper any of us!

      Sadly, I'll openly admit to becoming a hypocrite of sort, as just yesterday I was ready to throw in the towel, and say; "Screw it...if you can't beat em...join em!"

      After sitting through endless emails from at least 4 world renowned marketer's and exploring the "same exact' affiliate promotions...I wanted to puke!

      Fake screenshots, bogus story-lines, fake earnings, and even fake tits...c'mon really?

      Nearly every one of these offers is an "INSULT" to the industry.

      The top 30 slots on CBengine[dot]com is chalked full of this 1-Click crap, and I can barely bring myself to promote a single offer without fearing I too am stooping to the desire for MONEY over INTEGRITY...kinda like the ending result of the US outsourcing us to near extinction!

      It's no surprise Steve Jobs and Apple has more $$$ than my entire Government...and he actually makes money, go figure!

      I've even questioned my sig links...just over the past month, after awakening to the realization.... is this really even worth promoting?
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      While this list contains the names of nearly every TOP NOTCH copywriter, Guru, or at least several well respected millionaire's in the industry...it does leave one to question; "How many of these are pure JUNK?"

      All personal convictions aside, it has become clear...selling LIES (or at best Flattery...*the Highest form of INSULT) has systematically infected the bulk of this list.

      Mind you, I as a 'newbie' am or was rather trying to respectively 'follow' the leaders footsteps (to a degree) as a measure of emulating what I (once) believed was a genuine path to success. But upon closer look...it almost haunts me to question; "Is this really what it takes to succeed in this twisted IM world?"

      In closing, who's really to blame here?

      We live in a time where everyone wants everything for nothing....and a "Push Button" magical formula seems to out-sell the "It requires time and effort speech" for sure...

      In my most recent "Good Samaritan Acts" both online and off....it often appears -Nobody cares anymore, so long as they get what they want and in reaching out to people in an effort to actually help them...I keep getting burned!

      Leaving me confounded by the choice..."Give the people what they ask for?" (Regardless of how crappy it is....)

      -Or-

      Grind away in search for a moral and ethical way to get there with good ol' fashion honesty, hard-work, sweat, dedication, and of mutual benefit to all parties?

      Sadly, the latter has always been my priority...yet the sacrifice to maintain such values seems a dying dream, out-numbered by sheer and utter ignorance!

      Who am I to judge another's success?, or measure their interpretation thereof?, for as of the moment what once seemed a safe passage to new heights has become a sinister display of greed, power, and control.

      Hmmmmm....2000 years ago, I knew a man who was crucified for speaking against such powers....has anything really changed?

      ‪Otis Redding-Sitting on the dock of the bay‬‏ - YouTube

      "I can't do what 10 people tell me to do!" -Otis Redding

      "I'd rather die under a bridge, rich in spirit, as an honest man, then die alone in a castle lined with gold and false empowerment!" -Art
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      • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
        Wanted to share with you a conversation I had with an IMer, who has 3-4 products on this WF, and a monthly coaching program.

        CONTEXT: Got an email from this dude promoting a product. There was one problem, I unsubscribed from his list because he provided NO VALUE whatsoever and just promoted everyday and sometime 2 times a day.

        But I recall he used Aweber at the time, and this email if from iContact. And then I understood, he took all those who unsubscribed and put them into iContact:

        Me: iContact now?
        Him: yup
        Me: I noticed.
        was kinda shock ill admit (name).
        Him: ok..
        Me: well, I unsubscribed, not bec i dont like you but bec i unsubcribed from many lists.
        just saying, it doesn't seem ethical
        Him: moneys money.
        Me: ethics prevails.
        just giving you feedback, i think u r a good guy...that just shocked me.
        Him: an extra $200 a day helps me tons.
        opens new doors.
        Me: im sure it does but at the expense of ethics? morals? I know the i don't give a damn attitude. But you can give a damn and make that 200 extra a day.
        Just saying bro, you can do better than that.

        END OF CONVERSATION.

        You decide what this means.

        DISCLOSURE: I used a much harsher word than damn in that line because he is a Jersey boy and probably would understand better.
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  • Profile picture of the author kimjox
    Great post!

    We need more posts like this! There are many dishonest persons anyway we should always be ! careful

    Thanks Roy!
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    • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
      Originally Posted by kimjox View Post

      Great post!

      We need more posts like this! There are many dishonest persons anyway we should always be ! careful

      Thanks Roy!
      More than dishonesty, it is that some just don't care anymore.

      Time to change it.
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  • Profile picture of the author krtinberg
    Excellent post! Very well out.. Unfortunately it's just a fact of life that some people don't possess the same moral compass as others. All we can do is try to live our lives the best way we see fit and hope enough other people choose the right thing over the easy or profitable thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author camilopez
    Excellent post! I love it! There is no better place to be a TRUE Warrior than here on the Warrior Forum yet unfortunately for us who are just starting to really earn money, or even those just getting started there are a ton of people preying on the fact that we ARE just learning and trying to absorb as much info as we can.
    Luckily, there are those very generous and caring TRUE Warriors here that offer help and genuine information for us, it just takes some sorting, I guess.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
      Originally Posted by camilopez View Post

      Excellent post! I love it! There is no better place to be a TRUE Warrior than here on the Warrior Forum yet unfortunately for us who are just starting to really earn money, or even those just getting started there are a ton of people preying on the fact that we ARE just learning and trying to absorb as much info as we can.
      Luckily, there are those very generous and caring TRUE Warriors here that offer help and genuine information for us, it just takes some sorting, I guess.
      Yes, this is an opportunity to shine or show your true colors.

      The choice is up to each and every one of us.

      Give a damn and you will go far.

      Build a damn and that water will eventually come gushing through and flooding you away.

      Just be careful out there and have lots of fun!
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  • Profile picture of the author vince04
    But if you work really hard, and you're kind, amazing things will happen.

    yeah right! You're kind ? In a way that your products must be useful and how can you assist your costumer on inquiring details or etc.

    Great post!
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  • Profile picture of the author emmndi
    I must agree that the post was long as you initially started. However it's a great post. I will definately be making use of some of your ideas. Will definately keep you in know on how it does. Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author Kaysa
    Unethical people that unethical things are everywhere, not just in internet marketing.

    I fell in this trap too. "Make money beyond your dreams with this system", "Just do these step by step process and you will be making money by tomorrow"

    With my limited resources I bought an ebook, and this one book bring me more results than most of the success systems selled online, that's way I decide to become an affiliate and start promoting it, because this one worked for me, and bring me RESULTS, as you state, this is what we look for.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
      Originally Posted by emmndi View Post

      I must agree that the post was long as you initially started. However it's a great post. I will definately be making use of some of your ideas. Will definately keep you in know on how it does. Thanks
      Yes, it is a long post as I do tend to write long stuff but I am also glad I was able to peak your interest through out and have you compliment this post .

      Good luck in all and cool site BTW.

      Originally Posted by Kaysa View Post

      Unethical people that unethical things are everywhere, not just in internet marketing.

      I fell in this trap too. "Make money beyond your dreams with this system", "Just do these step by step process and you will be making money by tomorrow"

      With my limited resources I bought an ebook, and this one book bring me more results than most of the success systems selled online, that's way I decide to become an affiliate and start promoting it, because this one worked for me, and bring me RESULTS, as you state, this is what we look for.
      Of course they are everywhere, but being this is WF, I talked about the IM world.

      And I can say that we all fell into this trap but nonetheless learned valuable lessons from them. And I am glad that you found something that you are proud to promote and wish you lots of success with it.

      BTW, love persuasion stuff as I love all things psychology.
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      • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
        There should be a new post called, HOW NOT TO SELL A WSO AS AN AFFILIATE , but considering I have a thread on being ethical, I will add it here for now (based on recent event):

        Do NOT create a Facebook event, invite people to buy a WSO clearly with your affiliate links.

        The end.

        Now, I know Facebook events has been a nice toy for scammy marketers to use to sell stuff and I know we all get invited to silly real events too...but when you claim to be a respected marketer, and then SPAM people like that, you lost all respect in my eyes.

        Of course, one thing perhaps if it was your own launch or something you are truly a part of, but to randomly post WSO after WSO...oh no.

        Don't worry, I told this person off.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mary McLean
    Wow, at last some one being gutsy enough to say what a lot of Warriors are thinking!

    Good on you Roy...

    It is a bit demeaning when you do your very best and then see those money sucking crazy headlines out there while you have your gentle little "chat with your prospective customer" headline puttering away in the background!

    That's when you have to pull yourself up a notch higher again, dust your self belief off and go to it in belief and conviction, you are offering the best you know how and in the best way you know.

    Again, Congrats for saying what a huge amount of jaded Warriors have clearly been thinking,

    Kindest...
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    Roy,

    I admire your courage of conviction and respect that your moralcompassis aligned.

    However, whilst your op will resonate with quite a few on here, I just wonder about the value of people being negative.

    I'll get shot down for this, but the reality is in this business, and probably 99% of other businesses, these thinggs occur.

    Why? Because they are run by people and people share the God given gifts of pain, hunger, greed, envy and anger just to name a few.

    And frankly, I don't think it is correct to tar so many with the same brush. Are there Vampires out there? Yep, there sure are.

    Is everyone a Vamp? NO!

    Whilst many are happy to kick a guru for doing what they (and ultimately we) do as marketers, there are many amongst us who owe almost our lives to some of these gurus.

    Speaking for myself, I have seen both types.

    As I mentioned in another thread...

    It's like walking into a strip club then being shocked by seeing naked breasts. It comes with the territory... rightly or wrongly.

    Stay true to your values, but perhaps, instead of wasting precious time and energy on the negative, let's focus on the positive.

    If you don'tlike the emails, then unsubscribe. If you don't like the WSO's ignore them.

    Do you really want honest help? Then the only real solution is to hire a mentor / coach and fork out the $$ required to work one on one.

    And herein lies the source (I believe) of the problem.

    People want it all and want it now... and for no money. So we have a unfulfilled, insatiable demand for instant solutions... of which people of varying ethical persuasion seek to fill.

    Sorry if this is contrary to most replies on here, but how about we spend less time ranting and more time working?

    How about we focus on solutions and not problems?

    Personally, I hate wasting my time talking about predators who don't give a toss about me.

    Sal

    PS: I totally empathize with your position. Obviously something is wrong and maybe you this outlook due to something not working in your world? After all, it's often easy to blame others for our shortcomings.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
      GREAT reply Sal. Could not have said it better myself!

      "Guru" and WSO bashing is getting very old and distasteful. As soon as anyone makes some money and wants to share (perhaps their extraordinary) results they are immediately branded as one of those "gurus" who "hype" up their claims and steal then eat newbies babies while munching on the family dog's head. Just because something is "too good to be or sound true" doesn't mean it isn't. Sometimes it just means your understand what of what is "too good" needs to rise to meet reality. Not one "guru" (people who have actually done what everyone is trying to do -ironically) ever calls themselves a "guru". It's a derrogative statement these days and that is a poor reflection on those who use it in this context.

      It seems on one hand your slapped if you're a newbie for being so stupid and gullible then if you do manage to "make it" and want to share your methods ir ideas with others you're given the returning back hand for trying to "take advantage of newbies". In Australia we have a name for that sort of attitude and behaviour "Tall Poppy Syndrome". Everyone complains about not having money but if you do something successful you're the enemy and gods forbid you actually try to show anyone how you do it - or even mention it.

      It was really very difficult to read the entire original post to get to the "sensible and helpful" comments at the bottom - which were good. It would have been a great thread if I didn't have to drink all that kerosene cordial to get to the cake. The bottom half could have been delivered as an uplifting message without so much negative fantasy and non-fiction at the start and this would have been the fantastic post it could have been.
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      • Profile picture of the author sal64
        MAte, the Op has valid points.

        But this was the part that got me...

        I am not a guru. I don't have my own products. I am just really starting out with making money, for real. I have my own personal goals which are ambitious and I know the steps require to get there.

        Now call me arrogant, but surely time would be better spent being accountable rather than crying for help.

        Alll we have here is a big love-fest of sorts.

        But the bottom line is that even by the OP's and other posters' own admission, they are in it to make money and realize their dreams etc.

        So why bag the people whom are only doing the same?

        It doesn't make sense.

        Worry about your own house before complaining about your neighbor... or telling them how to live there life.

        Especially considering the current status of the OP's business.

        Finally, I don't think it's tall poppy syndrome at all. I think it's about a bombardment of offers etc.

        And that's cool. But I see too much negativity which despite appearances, sucks the energy out of those who read and respond.

        We are taught to hang out with positive influencial people who are like minded, yet all we seem to be doing is exact opposite.

        Why, because people are drawn to negativity and sensationalism, whether they care to admit to it or not.

        Originally Posted by WSOHelp View Post

        GREAT reply Sal. Could not have said it better myself!

        "Guru" and WSO bashing is getting very old and distasteful. As soon as anyone makes some money and wants to share (perhaps their extraordinary) results they are immediately branded as one of those "gurus" who "hype" up their claims and steal then eat newbies babies while munching on the family dog's head. Just because something is "too good to be or sound true" doesn't mean it isn't. Sometimes it just means your understand what of what is "too good" needs to rise to meet reality. Not one "guru" (people who have actually done what everyone is trying to do -ironically) ever calls themselves a "guru". It's a derrogative statement these days and that is a poor reflection on those who use it in this context.

        It seems on one hand your slapped if you're a newbie for being so stupid and gullible then if you do manage to "make it" and want to share your methods ir ideas with others you're given the returning back hand for trying to "take advantage of newbies". In Australia we have a name for that sort of attitude and behaviour "Tall Poppy Syndrome". Everyone complains about not having money but if you do something successful you're the enemy and gods forbid you actually try to show anyone how you do it - or even mention it.

        It was really very difficult to read the entire original post to get to the "sensible and helpful" comments at the bottom - which were good. It would have been a great thread if I didn't have to drink all that kerosene cordial to get to the cake. The bottom half could have been delivered as an uplifting message without so much negative fantasy and non-fiction at the start and this would have been the fantastic post it could have been.
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  • Profile picture of the author hireava
    Amazing letter Roy! Long but very informative and insightful.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mary McLean
    Hey Sal 64...Gosh, I wish people would put their real names up there, I feel stupid talking to a number!

    Anyways, Sal...
    Do you really think this is being negative?
    These things are par for the course and most experienced people now know that...but newbies don't.

    I remember when I first started in this internet world, I had no idea of how it worked, except that everyone back then (3 years ago) told me the internet was a scam!

    So I trundled along, noting all the awesome stories of people sitting in deck chairs under a palm tree while their PayPal account overflowed with cash.

    Now how would I have known otherwise, if I hadn't tested those "really honest" claims?
    Some of the products were dubious, to say the least, even then as a newbie, I felt that some of the contents did not ring true, although I did not know what "true" for online meant!

    I think Roy has vented his feelings on his journey into this amazing world as have both you and I...and of course, others in this thread.
    We are all at various stages of learning, so I figure what Roy said will truly help some newbies and what you have said may help others who are more advanced than a newbie.

    That's what makes this place an amazing platform for growth, both personal and for business.
    Kindest,
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Hi Mary,

      Sal is my real name and 64 is my year of birth. I just turned 47 yesterday, and at the start of the year, I doubted I would make it. So forgive me if I am abut flippant about these issues.

      Look, I agree with the sentiments and feel that way myself.

      All I know is that there are 2 ways to deal with problems: you either overcome or become consumed by them.

      With all respect I think the op was very dramatic. And just as people hate what's going on, I find these sorts of threads tiresome also.

      But that's just one simpleton's opinion.

      Regards,

      Sal (short for Salami)

      Originally Posted by Mary McLean View Post

      Hey Sal 64...Gosh, I wish people would put their real names up there, I feel stupid talking to a number!

      Anyways, Sal...
      Do you really think this is being negative?
      These things are par for the course and most experienced people now know that...but newbies don't.

      I remember when I first started in this internet world, I had no idea of how it worked, except that everyone back then (3 years ago) told me the internet was a scam!

      So I trundled along, noting all the awesome stories of people sitting in deck chairs under a palm tree while their PayPal account overflowed with cash.

      Now how would I have known otherwise, if I hadn't tested those "really honest" claims?
      Some of the products were dubious, to say the least, even then as a newbie, I felt that some of the contents did not ring true, although I did not know what "true" for online meant!

      I think Roy has vented his feelings on his journey into this amazing world as have both you and I...and of course, others in this thread.
      We are all at various stages of learning, so I figure what Roy said will truly help some newbies and what you have said may help others who are more advanced than a newbie.

      That's what makes this place an amazing platform for growth, both personal and for business.
      Kindest,
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      • Profile picture of the author Mary McLean
        Hi Sal,
        I apologize if I was out of order there above!

        Glad you pulled through your ordeal.

        I guess when you've had a near death experience, you really do see things differently!

        I've just spent the previous 18 months, until Jan this year, nursing my sister back to health after her 2 comas where she was on the edge too, so I completely understand your attitude now.

        She was a timid little thing, would never stand up for herself and since facing death twice, wow!

        Has her attitude changed...
        She is one feisty woman now!

        So I know where you are coming from. Life is too short to dwell in certain areas that you can now see, are pointless...for you and so on.

        There seems to be a sense of urgency, of being full up with good stuff and a whole bunch of other awesome emotions that are bestowed upon those who get to come back from the edge for a second go at life.

        All the best Sal and love that smile,

        Kindest,
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        • Profile picture of the author sal64
          No need for apologies. You were not out of line at all.

          I guess I used to be where the OP is at, and it's not a good space to be in as far as I am concerned.

          If you want to change the world - in my opinion - you lead by example. In this instance you build your business based on your core principles and values. Then you can teach others the same.

          That's where you make the real difference.

          The OP might be a call to arms, or it might just be an emotional response based on his limited experience and frustration.

          One final lesson...

          We all see the world differently. Our views are blurred based on our own beliefs and life experiences.

          So whether we are right or wrong is subjective at best.

          Hence my comments about keeping your own house in order first.

          I too feel his pain, but in the end, you have to ignore it and go about taking care of your own business. Coz no one else will.

          Best.

          Originally Posted by Mary McLean View Post

          Hi Sal,
          I apologize if I was out of order there above!

          Glad you pulled through your ordeal.

          I guess when you've had a near death experience, you really do see things differently!

          I've just spent the previous 18 months, until Jan this year, nursing my sister back to health after her 2 comas where she was on the edge too, so I completely understand your attitude now.

          She was a timid little thing, would never stand up for herself and since facing death twice, wow!

          Has her attitude changed...
          She is one feisty woman now!

          So I know where you are coming from. Life is too short to dwell in certain areas that you can now see, are pointless...for you and so on.

          There seems to be a sense of urgency, of being full up with good stuff and a whole bunch of other awesome emotions that are bestowed upon those who get to come back from the edge for a second go at life.

          All the best Sal and love that smile,

          Kindest,
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          • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
            Mary, thank you for the kind words and the support.

            Yes, it is hard when others take the backend, the dirty road and profit from it while we are giving it a go in an honest matter and it takes us just a bit longer to profit from it.

            My intention with this thread was just to provide a warrior cry, not a complaining thread. My intentions were to say let's rule differently, let's give ti a go in a different matter than what many do, let's show the world it is possible to live your dreams while doing an honest day work online.

            My intention was to whoever is out there, perhaps the *guru* who has a change of heart and changed his direction, or perhaps the newbie who wonders that may be the dirty way is the way, however it will help people, I hope it will continue to make an impact on them.

            Thank you.


            Originally Posted by Mary McLean View Post

            Wow, at last some one being gutsy enough to say what a lot of Warriors are thinking!

            Good on you Roy...

            It is a bit demeaning when you do your very best and then see those money sucking crazy headlines out there while you have your gentle little "chat with your prospective customer" headline puttering away in the background!

            That's when you have to pull yourself up a notch higher again, dust your self belief off and go to it in belief and conviction, you are offering the best you know how and in the best way you know.

            Again, Congrats for saying what a huge amount of jaded Warriors have clearly been thinking,

            Kindest...
            Originally Posted by hireava View Post

            Amazing letter Roy! Long but very informative and insightful.

            Thank you, yes it was long and I am glad you found it informative.


            Originally Posted by AustinScott View Post

            That's a great post.
            I like your writing skills.
            You say you're no Guru but you've given good wisdom.
            Thank you for the kind words, it is my hope and prayer to share what I do know, to learn what I can learn and to teach what is needed to teach.
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            • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
              Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

              Roy,

              I admire your courage of conviction and respect that your moralcompassis aligned.

              However, whilst your op will resonate with quite a few on here, I just wonder about the value of people being negative.

              I'll get shot down for this, but the reality is in this business, and probably 99% of other businesses, these thinggs occur.

              Why? Because they are run by people and people share the God given gifts of pain, hunger, greed, envy and anger just to name a few.

              And frankly, I don't think it is correct to tar so many with the same brush. Are there Vampires out there? Yep, there sure are.

              Is everyone a Vamp? NO!

              Whilst many are happy to kick a guru for doing what they (and ultimately we) do as marketers, there are many amongst us who owe almost our lives to some of these gurus.

              Speaking for myself, I have seen both types.

              As I mentioned in another thread...

              It's like walking into a strip club then being shocked by seeing naked breasts. It comes with the territory... rightly or wrongly.

              Stay true to your values, but perhaps, instead of wasting precious time and energy on the negative, let's focus on the positive.

              If you don'tlike the emails, then unsubscribe. If you don't like the WSO's ignore them.

              Do you really want honest help? Then the only real solution is to hire a mentor / coach and fork out the $$ required to work one on one.

              And herein lies the source (I believe) of the problem.

              People want it all and want it now... and for no money. So we have a unfulfilled, insatiable demand for instant solutions... of which people of varying ethical persuasion seek to fill.

              Sorry if this is contrary to most replies on here, but how about we spend less time ranting and more time working?

              How about we focus on solutions and not problems?

              Personally, I hate wasting my time talking about predators who don't give a toss about me.

              Sal

              PS: I totally empathize with your position. Obviously something is wrong and maybe you this outlook due to something not working in your world? After all, it's often easy to blame others for our shortcomings.
              Sal AKA Salami

              First off, congrats on living a life. To this I am honored to know you and send you best of wishes so you may continue to live healthy and peacefully, with the life you want.

              You are 100% right in all your posts.

              In no way did I mean to bash anyone, in no way did I mean to be negative, in no way did I mean for anyone to say what you said but the fact that you said it means that I mis-communicated to you.

              This was not meant to be a rant, rather a guide of living. My own guide perhaps sharing it with the public. A letter if you may.

              I wrote it out of frustration and as a warrior rally. Not as a "oh this sucks". I wrote it as many people came to me complaining and not sure what to believe anymore. I wrote it as I see emails after emails (whom I do unsubcribe),sales page after sales page (whom I do study when appropriate), posts after posts promising the world and delivering nothing.

              There's this one very successful marketer, after reading this post told me, he is guilty of many of those things I wrote about. He changed his ways. He said he is now profiting more than ever.

              That made me happy.

              And then many emails/PM I have gotten, from many respected warriors saying "BRAVO" more or less.

              All I wanted to write and what I thought I did write, is a guide of ethics. Nothing more. No negativity. No ranting. Just calling it out as I see them and how we can do differently.

              I know I am doing differently which BTW, I do now have products, do services and more and thankfully making an income, living ethically (all outside the make money niche).

              I remember when mentors (yes, people I paid) told me to do certain tactics that were out of alignment and I felt dirty. I didn't do them.

              I had a mentor who took our money (a few of us) and ran with it. This mentor is very active on this forum. But it seems he changed his way and I am happy.

              Until I finally did fine someone who was in alignment to what I believe in and guided me in the right direction.

              I don't have the answer. And I am not, nor was, in that space you talk about later.

              I am a pretty happy guy, very loud too, who wants to share his experience with the world.

              I thank you for commenting and I respect you very much.







              Originally Posted by WSOHelp View Post

              GREAT reply Sal. Could not have said it better myself!

              "Guru" and WSO bashing is getting very old and distasteful. As soon as anyone makes some money and wants to share (perhaps their extraordinary) results they are immediately branded as one of those "gurus" who "hype" up their claims and steal then eat newbies babies while munching on the family dog's head. Just because something is "too good to be or sound true" doesn't mean it isn't. Sometimes it just means your understand what of what is "too good" needs to rise to meet reality. Not one "guru" (people who have actually done what everyone is trying to do -ironically) ever calls themselves a "guru". It's a derrogative statement these days and that is a poor reflection on those who use it in this context.

              It seems on one hand your slapped if you're a newbie for being so stupid and gullible then if you do manage to "make it" and want to share your methods ir ideas with others you're given the returning back hand for trying to "take advantage of newbies". In Australia we have a name for that sort of attitude and behaviour "Tall Poppy Syndrome". Everyone complains about not having money but if you do something successful you're the enemy and gods forbid you actually try to show anyone how you do it - or even mention it.

              It was really very difficult to read the entire original post to get to the "sensible and helpful" comments at the bottom - which were good. It would have been a great thread if I didn't have to drink all that kerosene cordial to get to the cake. The bottom half could have been delivered as an uplifting message without so much negative fantasy and non-fiction at the start and this would have been the fantastic post it could have been.
              I am sorry you felt that I was being negative and that you had to drink all the poison to get to the good stuff. It was never my intention to bash, nor my intention to sound negative.

              For that, please accept my apology.

              My wish is for people to succeed and find themselves a mentor, a guide who they are in alignment with. My hope, my cry, is that we can do differently, we can do better. We can provide more value, more honest to others.

              I think back about a WSO, nice guy and all, and it was about generating 100K in 6 months or less coaching program. I was excited about it. So I asked the guy, have you made that kind of money? He straight up told me no. He said he knew the concept and is going to do it together with us.

              Honest guy. He really meant to help people. Sadly, the whole program fell apart.

              Then I know another guy who is just making about 90K a year with IM, but he says he is making mid-6 figures or so, so that people can buy his stuff. And oh, that was the same guy who I mentioned above who spammed people.

              Not so honest guy.

              My point is, we can do better. We can claim back what this industry is about. We don't need the dirty tactics. We can all do things honestly and respectfully. This is how I am leading my life. And this is how I hope others do too.

              Once again, I am sorry if you felt it was negative.
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  • Profile picture of the author AustinScott
    That's a great post.
    I like your writing skills.
    You say you're no Guru but you've given good wisdom.
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    That's all well and good, Roy.

    My point is that rather than focus on the bad, embrace the good and use them as shining examples of how it should be done.

    Sal
    Signature
    Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
    You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
      Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

      That's all well and good, Roy.

      My point is that rather than focus on the bad, embrace the good and use them as shining examples of how it should be done.

      Sal
      Amen.

      As the man Tony Robbins says "Where the focus goes, the energy flows".

      Thank you for your kind comments and your insights.

      I surely appreciate it Sal.

      And seriously, I dedicated that song for you
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  • Profile picture of the author garrettdaisy
    Very interesting!!!!!thanks for the information.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mary McLean
    Hey Roy, I'm an Aussie too!

    Love that song, thanks for it even tho' you didn't realize I'm from the land down under too...

    Regarding your comment re WSO's etc up top and the thought that the product creator should give away 3 copies first before listing it as a WSO...I think that is a grand idea...period, not just for WSO's.

    I have a product and would like to do just that...
    How would you think I should go about it?

    What thread area? Start a new one? What to do?

    I'll await your response.

    Thanks again for the song too,

    Kindest...
    Signature
    Newbie Starting Out?
    Get Free Weekly Lessons Here
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  • Profile picture of the author KateHunter
    Thank-you for your awesome post. Your eyes see clearly. You speak your truth. Peace always.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roy Naim
      Originally Posted by garrettdaisy View Post

      Very interesting!!!!!thanks for the information.
      Thank you and indeed, I am glad to be a provider of information.

      Originally Posted by Mary McLean View Post

      Hey Roy, I'm an Aussie too!

      Love that song, thanks for it even tho' you didn't realize I'm from the land down under too...

      Regarding your comment re WSO's etc up top and the thought that the product creator should give away 3 copies first before listing it as a WSO...I think that is a grand idea...period, not just for WSO's.

      I have a product and would like to do just that...
      How would you think I should go about it?

      What thread area? Start a new one? What to do?

      I'll await your response.

      Thanks again for the song too,

      Kindest...
      Mary!!! My sincere apology for not recognizing you are an Aussie as well. If I knew of another song, I would dedicate it for you too!!!

      I sure love that song as well, has lots of heart and soul.

      I am glad you think it is a good idea and I think the best way to do it is to approach a mixture of people. Perhaps the other gentlemen from Aussie would like to review it and put it to use, I am talking of course about Sal and Bill.

      You can also look around the forum and find a somewhat newbie and give it to them and ask them to not just review it but to put it to use. What better way to promote a product than by saying the info in this product helped me do this and that.

      You can start a thread, but for just 3 review products, I think you can just find them yourself!!!

      Looking forward to hearing about it Mary.




      Originally Posted by KateHunter View Post

      Thank-you for your awesome post. Your eyes see clearly. You speak your truth. Peace always.
      Thank you Kate for the kind words. Clarity is something we all thrive for, for with clarity comes happiness.
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