The Secret and The Law of Attraction Is A Fiction and you Should Not be Fooled for a Moment Longer

104 replies
I was surprised to find this sort of tosh in the 'Warrior' forums.

So, to reprise my earlier post I would like to point out the weakness of such flawed beliefs.

I am aware than many successful people propagate versions of this so-called law.

But remember, they want to sell to as wide an audience as possible.



Let's not exclude the daydreamers, hey!





*****************



There is a true story about an Englishman who was in New York on business strolling along the sidewalk.

He passes a ringing public payphone, and, out of curiosity, answers it.

The person on the phone is known to him, it is a colleague from his London office.

They had intended to ring someone else in New York, but mis-dialled and he happened to answer.

Now here is the point.

If he had been thinking about that person or his office, this event would have seemed like magic, or the LOA.

But it would have happened anyway.

People with flimsy belief systems are happy to attach the 'LOA" label when if works in their favour.

But do not in the TRILLIONS of instances when it does not.

You are fooling yourselves by attaching great importance to nothing more than a series of coincidences where you are the sole arbiter.

For every LOA event that 'works' there are several trillion that do not - thereby disproving the theory, using the very same logic.

so, to summarize.


The 'Law' of Attraction is a fiction and does not exist in any way, shape or form.

As long a you have faith in it, you will look for reasons to support it, so you don't look like an idiot. That is human nature.

Give it up and get real.

Life is much more fun that way.
#attraction #fiction #fooled #law #longer #moment #secret
  • Profile picture of the author pavondunbar
    I 150% disagree with you, Mr Cox.

    But...

    To each his own.

    May you have much success and prosperity in anything you do.

    Pavon
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    • Profile picture of the author Ray Erdmann
      Originally Posted by pavondunbar View Post

      I 150% disagree with you, Mr Cox.

      But...

      To each his own.

      May you have much success and prosperity in anything you do.

      Pavon
      Ditto here too as well!

      But as said, why force your opinion and/or belief onto someone else.
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      "Whether you think you can or not...you'll always be 100% right!" |

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      • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
        Originally Posted by Ray Erdmann View Post

        Ditto here too as well!

        But as said, why force your opinion and/or belief onto someone else.

        I don't see anyone forcing anything on anybody.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
          Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox View Post

          I don't see anyone forcing anything on anybody.
          If people are getteing results because of practicing Law Of Attraction techniques and principles--and they're more successful and happier than ever--then why come into the forum and start preaching against it?

          I have a gratitude rock which I learned from The Secret and it's a wonderful exercise. I'm not expecting a Ferrari to fall in to my lap because of it however it's still a productive exercise. And I'm happier because of it.

          Personally I believe that there's things going on in this World and The Universe that we're yet to understand.

          Thousounds of years ago people would have been killed for proposing that the Earth was round instead of flat. And at one point in time people had to go into hiding by joining various secret societies because of their beliefs of science instead of religion to understand the World.

          Now whether The Law Of Attraction is something that will be proved or partly explained at some point in the future is debatable however I always think it's good to keep an open mind.
          Signature
          "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
            Originally Posted by ZigZag View Post

            If people are getteing results because of practicing Law Of Attraction techniques and principles--and they're more successful and happier than ever--then why come into the forum and start preaching against it?
            Preaching? It is my opinion. That's what happens in forums, people give out their viewpoints.


            Originally Posted by ZigZag

            ;
            Now whether The Law Of Attraction is something that will be proved or partly explained at some point in the future is debatable however I always think it's good to keep an open mind.

            An open mind is one thing. Spouting fiction as fact is another
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            • Profile picture of the author Lisa aka LJ
              A sign that the Law of Attraction works is that I am increasingly unconcerned with people thinking it doesn't work.
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            • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
              Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox View Post

              Preaching? It is my opinion. That's what happens in forums, people give out their viewpoints.
              Perhaps you're not preaching then.

              However you should be made aware that your posts are coming across as forcing your opinions on others and what I call "preaching." I'm not the first person to think that either.

              To me it doesn't seem like you're interested in debating or having a discussion at all. And you can't blame me when you keep saying stuff like:

              "Give it up and get real ..."
              "It's ALL tosh ..."
              "It's just not what the daydreamers claim is happening ..."
              "I was surprised to find this sort of tosh in the 'Warrior' forums ..."

              The "tosh" you're talking about is something that people are passionate about and something that has been improving their lives. Many people are seeing real results from practicing The Law Of Attraction and I think that should be respected whether you believe in it or not.

              You can't expect people to think you're having a discussion when you keep putting your point of view across like that. You're entitled to your opinion of course and I actually agree with you however you're coming across negatively to people.

              The next logical (and childish) thing for people to say in these kind of discussions is: "That's their problem." Well personally I'd want to know that my posts are coming across the wrong way because then I can change my approach next time.

              So I hope you appreciate me giving you a heads up.
              Signature
              "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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              • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
                Originally Posted by ZigZag View Post

                Perhaps you're not preaching then.

                However you should be made aware that your posts are coming across as forcing your opinions on others and what I call "preaching." I'm not the first person to think that either.

                To me it doesn't seem like you're interested in debating or having a discussion at all. And you can't blame me when you keep saying stuff like:

                "Give it up and get real ..."
                "It's ALL tosh ..."
                "It's just not what the daydreamers claim is happening ..."
                "I was surprised to find this sort of tosh in the 'Warrior' forums ..."

                The "tosh" you're talking about is something that people are passionate about and something that has been improving their lives. Many people are seeing real results from practicing The Law Of Attraction and I think that should be respected whether you believe in it or not.

                You can't expect people to think you're having a discussion when you keep putting your point of view across like that. You're entitled to your opinion of course and I actually agree with you however you're coming across negatively to people.

                The next logical (and childish) thing for people to say in these kind of discussions is: "That's their problem." Well personally I'd want to know that my posts are coming across the wrong way because then I can change my approach next time.

                So I hope you appreciate me giving you a heads up.

                Yes Mr Zag, I do appreciate the 'heads-up'.

                Thank you
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          • Profile picture of the author aapillc
            Originally Posted by ZigZag View Post

            If people are getteing results because of practicing Law Of Attraction techniques and principles--and they're more successful and happier than ever--then why come into the forum and start preaching against it?

            I have a gratitude rock which I learned from The Secret and it's a wonderful exercise. I'm not expecting a Ferrari to fall in to my lap because of it however it's still a productive exercise. And I'm happier because of it.

            Personally I believe that there's things going on in this World and The Universe that we're yet to understand.

            Thousounds of years ago people would have been killed for proposing that the Earth was round instead of flat. And at one point in time people had to go into hiding by joining various secret societies because of their beliefs of science instead of religion to understand the World.

            Now whether The Law Of Attraction is something that will be proved or partly explained at some point in the future is debatable however I always think it's good to keep an open mind.

            This appears to be because they have not yet found what makes them happy. You only attact something you are afraid of, or don't understand. That being said...........To each his own....... and..."To thine own self be true"(Shakespeare)!!!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
      Originally Posted by pavondunbar View Post

      I 150% disagree with you, Mr Cox.

      But...

      To each his own.

      May you have much success and prosperity in anything you do.

      Pavon
      You cannot do anything '150%'

      although I appreciate the sentiment.
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      • Profile picture of the author pavondunbar
        Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox View Post

        You cannot do anything '150%'

        although I appreciate the sentiment.
        No problem, Richard...

        Glad you appreciate the sentiment...

        And about the 150%...

        It's a figure of speech...

        Have a good day, sir! I disagree with your post like I stated earlier...

        But...

        I 150% respect your opinion.

        Pavon
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
          Originally Posted by pavondunbar View Post

          No problem, Richard...

          Glad you appreciate the sentiment...

          And about the 150%...

          It's a figure of speech...

          Have a good day, sir! I disagree with your post like I stated earlier...

          But...

          I 150% respect your opinion.

          Pavon
          Ah yes, you may use it whilst being aware it is an impossibilty.

          Remind you of anything else?

          Many people use that phrase without really understanding it's meaning, just as some 'daydreamers' invoke quantum mechanics to 'explain' the 'LOA'.

          I have seen other forums with posts dating back to 2003 from people who have swallowed the LOA fiction hook, line and sinker.

          Go there today and you will see the same people living the same lives, bemoaning thier lack of 'success' . They are often told by people who publish this rubbish that they must be 'doing it wrong'

          Some clever marketers have even come up with a 'produce your own LOA movie' kit, presumably aimed at people with limited imaginations.

          (and technical knowledge - windows movie maker will suffice for such projects-and in most cases it's already on your PC)

          So we have more people finding more ways to extract money from the terminally gullible.

          Shameful.
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          • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
            Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox View Post


            Some clever marketers have even come up with a 'produce your own LOA movie' kit, presumably aimed at people with limited imaginations.

            (and technical knowledge - windows movie maker will suffice for such projects-and in most cases it's already on your PC)

            So we have more people finding more ways to extract money from the terminally gullible.

            Shameful.
            mindmovies.com...yes, when I saw that site I was like, whoa what a rip-off. I created my own "mind movie" using , you guessed it, Windows Movie Maker.
            Regarding the Law of Attraction: I do believe that "thoughts are things, so think good thoughts"...
            ie: positive thoughts+belief in yourself+inspired action=desired results

            I think most people ignore the inspired action part
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      • Profile picture of the author procoach
        Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox View Post

        You cannot do anything '150%'
        Except grow or diminish.

        BTW, IMO *every* law is fiction, i.e. made up. The question then becomes, which law empowers you the most?
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      • Profile picture of the author Ed Stas
        Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox View Post

        You cannot do anything '150%'

        although I appreciate the sentiment.
        Not at all true. While not 150% per se, I have paid "affiliates" 110% before to sell certain products. I can easily do it for 150% or any other amount. I learned long ago that you cannot say cannot.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
          Originally Posted by Ed Stas View Post

          Not at all true. While not 150% per se, I have paid "affiliates" 110% before to sell certain products. I can easily do it for 150% or any other amount. I learned long ago that you cannot say cannot.

          No you have not. No wonder many students don't understand the concept of percentages, that 100% is the whole of something.
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  • Profile picture of the author michellec
    Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox View Post

    People with flimsy belief systems are happy to attach the 'LOA" label when if works in their favour.
    Actually, my 'flimsy belief system' also means that I attach the 'LOA' label when things DON'T work in my favour.

    I am responsible for my results, good OR bad.

    Watching The Secret and thinking THAT is all there is to the law of attraction, is like reading a single post in this forum and thinking you know all there is to know about IM. And if you gain knowledge, but don't apply it or test it, what results can you expect?

    Tosh? Not in my experience, but I don't need anyone to agree with my viewpoint.

    Cheers,
    M
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Chambers
      There seems to be a lot of misconception about the LOA and films like the secret.
      It can all be explained in one phrase very simply...

      You get what you give!

      That's it really. Okay, like anything else you can go in to more detail if you so wish. But basically, know what you want, find out what's stopping you getting it, get rid of those roadblocks and get on with it.

      BTW, I should point out that nobody in the secret, or any subsequent material claims that you can "daydream" yourself to success. They ALL say that you must get off your backside. For some reason, a lot of people have missed that point, or chosen not to listen. :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
        Originally Posted by Scott Chambers View Post

        There seems to be a lot of misconception about the LOA and films like the secret.
        It can all be explained in one phrase very simply...

        You get what you give!

        That's it really. Okay, like anything else you can go in to more detail if you so wish. But basically, know what you want, find out what's stopping you getting it, get rid of those roadblocks and get on with it.

        BTW, I should point out that nobody in the secret, or any subsequent material claims that you can "daydream" yourself to success. They ALL say that you must get off your backside. For some reason, a lot of people have missed that point, or chosen not to listen. :rolleyes:

        All that is true, it's just not what the daydreamers claim is happening
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
      Originally Posted by michellec View Post

      Actually, my 'flimsy belief system' also means that I attach the 'LOA' label when things DON'T work in my favour.

      I am responsible for my results, good OR bad.

      Watching The Secret and thinking THAT is all there is to the law of attraction, is like reading a single post in this forum and thinking you know all there is to know about IM. And if you gain knowledge, but don't apply it or test it, what results can you expect?

      Tosh? Not in my experience, but I don't need anyone to agree with my viewpoint.

      Cheers,
      M

      You may take responsibility for your results, but that does not mean you have control.

      I didn't refer exclusively to 'the Secret'. I referenced works over a century old.

      It's ALL tosh
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  • Profile picture of the author Monique Abrams
    Richard~

    Interesting Post.

    In my opinion, life is full of things you can control and things you can't control, but change is an ally to both. Often, people view life with one or the other instead of understanding life contains both.

    The Law of Attraction explains how your thought processes can control the outcome of events in your life, which is very true. Do you agree with that part?

    Still, there is chance and things you cannot control. Because this is also true, that does not discredit the Law of Attraction. Both Exist.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
      Originally Posted by Monique Abrams View Post

      Richard~

      The Law of Attraction explains how your thought processes can control the outcome of events in your life, which is very true. Do you agree with that part?

      Still, there is chance and things you cannot control. Because this is also true, that does not discredit the Law of Attraction. Both Exist.
      I agree with the exception of part where you refer a non-existent 'Law'
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  • Profile picture of the author parrott
    I like the "access' tool of 'all of life comes to me with ease, joy and glory'....that means everything...good and bad.
    LP
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    • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
      Richard,

      I think it is B.S. too, but there isn't much point arguing against
      another person's belief system. You might want to read Kevin
      Hogan's book "the 12 Principles of Business Success" where
      he deconstructs the inaccurate thinking so prevalent today
      and shows what is really going on, neurologically and psychologically.

      IMO Napoleon Hill would be appalled by the nonsense being
      peddled today. It's easy to say he's an exponent on LOA
      attraction stuff but there is one section in the back of the
      book where he writes about "accurate thinking" - but I think
      a lot of today's readers miss that part or don't get that far.
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
        Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye View Post

        Richard,

        You might want to read Kevin
        Hogan's book "the 12 Principles of Business Success" where
        he deconstructs the inaccurate thinking so prevalent today
        and shows what is really going on, neurologically and psychologically.

        Cool, off to Amazon I go.
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  • Profile picture of the author mindauggas
    you can not arrive to such conclusions by giving an example...

    LOA is yeat a hyphothesis by it makes sence when you look to it from different points of view:

    1. your brain and thought are in your body > therefore they must do some changes to it...
    2. body and behaviour are affected, then it comes to your frind circle, social skills and most importantly actions> and it brings success or whatever....(i have a huge theory on that)
    3. mind can not tell the difference between your thoughts and real events...
    4. how can you know that this thing(you described) is not caused by LOA in some way
    5. read some philosophy and phisics before criticizing and please stop making assumptions from one examlpe...
    6 it seems that you are trying to mock everything... but thats just you...


    P.S. i'm nottrying to protect anything, LOA makes sence to me and i have seen a lot of evidence in my own life.... but its still a theory that you cant prove scientificaly but we know 4 fact that science changes very quicly so we can not count on it too...

    P.S.S. if energy does not dissapear ... where do you think the energy of a thought goes? (thats from phisics..)

    gave a nice day...
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
      Originally Posted by mindauggas View Post

      you can not arrive to such conclusions by giving an example...

      LOA is yeat a hyphothesis by it makes sence when you look to it from different points of view:

      1. your brain and thought are in your body > therefore they must do some changes to it...
      2. body and behaviour are affected, then it comes to your frind circle, social skills and most importantly actions> and it brings success or whatever....(i have a huge theory on that)
      3. mind can not tell the difference between your thoughts and real events...
      4. how can you know that this thing(you described) is not caused by LOA in some way
      5. read some philosophy and phisics before criticizing and please stop making assumptions from one examlpe...
      6 it seems that you are trying to mock everything... but thats just you...


      P.S. i'm nottrying to protect anything, LOA makes sence to me and i have seen a lot of evidence in my own life.... but its still a theory that you cant prove scientificaly but we know 4 fact that science changes very quicly so we can not count on it too...

      P.S.S. if energy does not dissapear ... where do you think the energy of a thought goes? (thats from phisics..)

      gave a nice day...

      Thanks for your input, my replies as follows.


      1. Agreed
      2. Yep, no problemo with that
      3. Unproven Speculation
      4. How can you know it is?
      5. Neither of which support the so called LOA
      6. Really?


      PS. Yes, and if you wait long enough science may prove that Pixies exist and werewolves roam the forests. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting though.

      PPS. Thought is not energy.
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      • Profile picture of the author JasonFinch
        I do agree that there is a lot of hype about the LOA -- but what most people don't talk about is how to remove the emotional blockers that consistently prevent what we want most...
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Personally I believe in The Law Of Attraction in the sense that we "attract" the people and circumstances into our life that resonate with our dominant thoughts.

    For instance a happy-go-lucky, friendly type of person is more likely to attract the same kind of people into their life. And a person who is focusing on all the beauty in the World will see evidence of that everywhere and that will be "attracted" into their life.

    For me all of this happens because of proven psychological principles. I don't believe that vibrations are sent out to The Universe or anything metaphysical or supernatural is going on.

    So keeping in mind that what you focus on you will "attract" into your life--because of the extraordinary power of the human mind--there's a lot to be gained from practicing The Law Of Attraction. (Even if you don't believe the mystical part of it.)

    You wouldn't throw away a box of apples just because one of them is rotten, and you'd be missing out if you didn't practice certain principles that come under The Law Of Attraction umbrella.

    For instance:

    Vizualization

    In the movie "The Secret" visualization is discussed and this is a proven technique which has been used by sports psychologists for many years.

    At the University of Chicago a study was conducted to determine the effects of visualization on the free-throw performance of basketball players. The players were divided into three groups. The first group went the gym and practiced for half an hour. The second group also went to the gym but instead of practicing physically they simply visualized themselves successfully shooting. The third group did nothing.

    After 30 days the players who hadn't practiced showed no improvement. Those who practiced physically showed an increase in performance of 24%. And those who practiced by visualization improved by 23%.

    Gratitude

    They also discuss developing an "Attitude Of Gratitude."

    And this has also been scientifically proven by Dr. Steven Teopfer in a study where students wrote letters of gratitude for to people who had positively impacted their lives. After each letter the students completed a survey to gauge mood, satisfaction with life, and feelings of gratitude and happiness. "I saw their happiness increase after each letter. Meaning the more they wrote, better they felt" says Teopfer.

    75% of the students said they planned to continue to write letters of gratitude even when the course was over. "We are all walking around with an amazing resource: gratitude," says Toepfer. "It helps us express and enjoy, appreciate, be thankful and satisfied with a little effort. We all have it, and we need to use it to improve our quality of life."

    And I'm sure there's even more proven techniques in The Secret and Law Of Attraction material in general. So I basically apply the "take-what's-useful-and-leave-the-rest" technique when it comes to The Law Of Attraction.
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  • Profile picture of the author Pat Ordenes
    I can say that I am fond of the LOA...
    But there is another LOA that we marketers must exercise and stress more so:
    The Law Of Action!


    "...ideas are about the cheapest of all commodities... But the supply of men who can execute ideas and make money out of them is pitifully small." - Bruce Barton, 1936.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheAge
      While I don't believe in the LOA, and I think the mindsets propogated by movies such as The Secret is wishful shortcut thinking, I do think it is important to not discount the very real workings of the 'Self fulfilling prophecy', or the 'Pygmalion Effect'.

      That is, when thinking in a positive manner, you'll have reason to stay motivated and do the work necessary for success, as opposed to being caught in a negative mindset, not expecting much from yourself, and thus not bothering to lift a finger.

      If you treat yourself well and respect yourself, you're going to expect more from yourself and live up to your values.

      If you're a negative thinker and think you are undeserving of any success, well, then you're not going to pursue your values because you're convinced you're not worthy of them.

      - Adrian
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  • Profile picture of the author bergie812
    People can believe whatever helps them get what they want. If the LOA works for them great if not fine. Just be happy and be the best you can be.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wizardofwisdom
    Well, Mr. Cox, not very scientific as an argument, is it?

    I have seriously examined both sides of this argument, and I have been forced to conclude that the LOA must exist - there actually is no alternative.

    But, Mr. Cox, I wonder if you have read the scientific evidence that more than bears this out ... look up Dean Radin, Candace Pert, Amit Goswami, Deepak Chopra, Gregg Braden et. al. Forget "The Secret" - watch "What The Bleep Do We Know?" ... and then come back and say it's "tosh."

    Still, you started a good debate, and I'm pleased to have attracted you into my reality for that purpose!

    So thanks.

    Trev.
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    • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
      "What The Bleep..." is a house-organ for the Ramtha
      organization and some of the participants, particularly the
      scientists, were unhappy with the way their work was
      portrayed. It's a fun movie with some engaging ideas
      in it but it is not credible scientifically. There is a long
      list of critics and their comments summarized on
      Wikipedia.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
      Originally Posted by Wizardofwisdom View Post

      Well, Mr. Cox, not very scientific as an argument, is it?

      I have seriously examined both sides of this argument, and I have been forced to conclude that the LOA must exist - there actually is no alternative.

      But, Mr. Cox, I wonder if you have read the scientific evidence that more than bears this out ... look up Dean Radin, Candace Pert, Amit Goswami, Deepak Chopra, Gregg Braden et. al. Forget "The Secret" - watch "What The Bleep Do We Know?" ... and then come back and say it's "tosh."

      Still, you started a good debate, and I'm pleased to have attracted you into my reality for that purpose!

      So thanks.

      Trev.
      Well, Mr um, Wizard

      Good for you.

      Those people you mention are no different from the 'scientists' that tobacco companies used to hire to say passive smoking couldnt harm you. Everyone has an agenda.

      .
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      • Profile picture of the author jasdon
        Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox View Post

        Everyone has an agenda.

        .
        So, what's yours?
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
          Originally Posted by jasdon View Post

          So, what's yours?
          The clue is in the title of the thread
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  • Profile picture of the author jasdon
    I don't believe in pointing to other peoples work or videos etc to desribe what I know, so let me explain to you why you are wrong.

    The LOA is irrefutable; here's why;

    You consciously think about something in a certain way, and your subconscious guides you toward it, and maybe, it to you. Therefore, some of the stuff that comes your way, is a product of your thought. (Not to be confused with coincidence, as per your example with the guy answering the phone - which you claim to be a true story - unless you were one of the guys on the phone, you can't know that for a fact - actually, it sounds like something from a Derren Brown book, 'Tricks of the Mind' perhaps?).

    This can be proven. Before you type out a post, you must first think about it. You must think (probably on a mid-conscious level) of each letter - if not, you can't type it, right?
    The same is true for everything in your life - going to the shops, making money, driving a car....breathing, which you do on a subconscious level via instinct.

    No-one can make a penny unless they have thought it previously. LOA isn't some wierd mumbo jumbo - it's just a fact of life, like photosynthesis or gravity, it's there, and undeniable. So it follows, that if you want something to happen, you first need to think about it in a certain way.

    You cannot do anything at all, unless the thought of doing it has taken place.

    Now whether you believe it or not is upto you. But whether you believe it or not, makes not difference to it's being real.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
      Originally Posted by jasdon View Post

      I don't believe in pointing to other peoples work or videos etc to desribe what I know, so let me explain to you why you are wrong.
      The LOA is irrefutable;.
      Bad start - here I am refuting it.


      Originally Posted by jason

      You consciously think about something in a certain way, and your subconscious guides you toward it, and maybe, it to you.
      Acutally scientists believe it's the other way around

      And regardless of whether or not the example I gave is true, you cannot claim that conicidence does not exist.

      Originally Posted by jason


      No-one can make a penny unless they have thought it previously. LOA isn't some wierd mumbo jumbo - it's just a fact of life, like photosynthesis or gravity, it's there, and undeniable. So it follows, that if you want something to happen, you first need to think about it in a certain way.
      So what? That has nothing to do with any fictional, unproven laws

      .
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox View Post

        So what? That has nothing to do with any fictional, unproven laws
        Yeah it should probably be called "The Theory Of Attraction" considering that's it's unproven.

        I don't have a problem with people believing that there's something else going on in The Universe that we're not aware of because I respect open mindedness however calling it a law when it's mostly theory is where they run into trouble.

        The creator of The Secret is actually quite "out there." She's said some strange stuff including that we attract everything that happens to us. (Including the weather and natural disasters.)

        When someone challenged people about children attracting child abuse some Law Of Attraction practitioners said they intended it to happen and it's because of something they did in a past life. That's just too "out there" for me. Personally I don't believe that we attract everything that happens to us.

        That said I do like a lot of the principles and techniques in The Secret and I'm open to possibility that we attract people and circumstances by a process that we're not aware of.
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      • Profile picture of the author jasdon
        Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox View Post

        Bad start - here I am refuting it.
        As I said in my previous post, it's irrelevant that you refute it - that makes no difference to it's reality.

        If I am wrong - and you are right - tell me how you do something without previously having thought about it.


        Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox View Post

        Acutally scientists believe it's the other way around
        Yeah, see, this is why I prefer people to try and use their own brains rather than repeat stuff they've read - if you don't, you are only as intelligent as your source (at best) and here the source is unknown.

        Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox View Post

        And regardless of whether or not the example I gave is true, you cannot claim that conicidence does not exist.
        I didn't, and I don't. Coincidence usually has very little with ones self; it is an action 'to' rather than an action 'of'.




        Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox View Post

        So what? That has nothing to do with any fictional, unproven laws
        .
        You say unproven - my proof is that you nor anyone else can do anything without first thinking about it.

        Unless you can disprove this - you have the choice of either accepting it, or to live in ignorance (while still using it tens of thousands of times a day).
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        • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
          That's a good point actually Jasdon. I'm not sure if it proves The Law Of Attraction but you're definitely right that everything we accomplish starts of as an idea in the mind.

          Reminds me of the following quotation: "Watch your thoughts for they become your words. Whatch your words for they become your actions. Watch your actions for they become your character. Watch your character for it becomes your destiny."

          And: "All that we are is a result of what we have thought."--Buddha
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
            Originally Posted by ZigZag View Post

            That's a good point actually Jasdon. I'm not sure if it proves The Law Of Attraction but you're definitely right that everything we accomplish starts of as an idea in the mind.

            Reminds me of the following quotation: "Watch your thoughts for they become your words. Whatch your words for they become your actions. Watch your actions for they become your character. Watch your character for it becomes your destiny."

            And: "All that we are is a result of what we have thought."--Buddha
            There you are, something I can agree with.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
          Originally Posted by jasdon View Post

          As I said in my previous post, it's irrelevant that you refute it - that makes no difference to it's reality.
          Quite, just as irrelevant as your contention of it's existence.

          And the burden of proof is with you.
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          • Profile picture of the author jasdon
            Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox View Post

            Quite, just as irrelevant as your contention of it's existence.

            And the burden of proof is with you.
            Firstly, you started the thread saying that LOA is fiction - the burden of proof lies (abviously quite heavily) on your shoulders. If you'd named your thread 'prove to me that LOA isn't fiction', then it would be the other way round...

            Now, this is the third time I've written this, so please, try to understand it this time;

            Everything you do, first starts off as a thought. That is the LOA in a nutshell. You can't lift a cup to your lips without first thinking it. That is proof positive of it's excistence. You cannot do anything without first thinking it - therefore, what you think about in a certain way, can be created.

            To prove me wrong, you must give examples of things you do without it first being a thought in your conscious or subconscious mind.

            Can you do that?
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            • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
              Originally Posted by jasdon View Post

              Firstly, you started the thread saying that LOA is fiction - the burden of proof lies (abviously quite heavily) on your shoulders. If you'd named your thread 'prove to me that LOA isn't fiction', then it would be the other way round...

              Now, this is the third time I've written this, so please, try to understand it this time;

              Everything you do, first starts off as a thought. That is the LOA in a nutshell. You can't lift a cup to your lips without first thinking it. That is proof positive of it's excistence. You cannot do anything without first thinking it - therefore, what you think about in a certain way, can be created.

              To prove me wrong, you must give examples of things you do without it first being a thought in your conscious or subconscious mind.

              Can you do that?

              Ahem, to correct you.

              Your statement has nothing whatsoever to do with what the daydreamers are claiming. I have already agreed with the point you are making.

              Go read it again, if you need reminding.

              Acting on thoughts is not a contention and never has been.

              If you really want me to start quoting the fiction back to you I can do, but as you claim to know all about the 'Law' of attraction' there should be no need.




              Since many of the claims of the law of attraction appear impossible without violating established scientific principles and our understanding of the universe, it has received criticism from the scientific community.

              The Associated Press is also quoted as saying that "some medical professionals suggest it could even lead to a blame-the-victim mentality and actually be dangerous to those suffering from serious illness or mental disorders".


              Physicist Ali Alousi, for instance, criticized it as unmeasurable (and therefore unscientific) as well as questioning the likelihood that thoughts can affect anything outside the head.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasdon
    I can only talk on what I see as the LOA - this is why I don't like to quote others or hand out links to youtube videos etc.

    Otherwise, it just gets into a joke with one side realing out their 'expert' and the other side seeing or raising with theirs...

    So we agree that the basics are real - without the embellishments or fantasy that some people try to attach to it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
      Originally Posted by jasdon View Post

      I can only talk on what I see as the LOA - this is why I don't like to quote others or hand out links to youtube videos etc.

      Otherwise, it just gets into a joke with one side realing out their 'expert' and the other side seeing or raising with theirs...

      So we agree that the basics are real - without the embellishments or fantasy that some people try to attach to it.
      Yep, I will go with that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Firaatje
    If you keep a closed mind, you won't see what kind of wonders happen in this world everyday. And i don't care if it is LOA of whatever. I believe that everything that happens in one's life is a result of the choices we are making everyday. It doesn't matter if you are a sceptic or a believer. The point is, to take responsibility for your own result that you get in your life.
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  • Profile picture of the author softwarefilt
    Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox View Post

    People with flimsy belief systems are happy to attach the 'LOA" label when if works in their favour.

    But do not in the TRILLIONS of instances when it does not.

    You are fooling yourselves by attaching great importance to nothing more than a series of coincidences where you are the sole arbiter.

    For every LOA event that 'works' there are several trillion that do not - thereby disproving the theory, using the very same logic.
    What you are talking about here is confirmations bias, which humans are known to act on. We have an eye for things that support our beliefs, and tend to ignore things that go against our beliefs. Completely natural.

    I agree that the LOA needs to be treated in a more scientific manner, but I disagree that science has somehow disproven it.
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    • Profile picture of the author shazsays
      Originally Posted by softwarefilt View Post

      What you are talking about here is confirmations bias, which humans are known to act on. We have an eye for things that support our beliefs, and tend to ignore things that go against our beliefs. Completely natural.
      I agree. Therefore it would make sense to choose beliefs that serve rather than hinder us.

      The question then becomes how do we change our beliefs? The short answer is affirmations. They're free and extremely powerful.


      Sharon
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    • Profile picture of the author stevebetsworth
      Although I DO believe in the general principles of the Law Of Attraction.......I DON'T really believe there is any MAGICAL force out there which comes to us making us successful etc. The real power behind the LOA is the principle of creating a POSITIVE MINDSET from the start. In order to be successful in anything you have to first BELIEVE you can do something then make a PLAN and take ACTION in order to achieve your Goal.

      It's all about FLIPPING your Mind and getting off your BUTT and taking ACTION and never ever giving up!!

      Cheere,

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        I think there's definitely some truth to The Law Of Attraction.

        What you think about will create the kind of World that you live in. That's why you should concentrate on what is good and pure. Concentrate on what you want and the dreams in your heart.

        I can tell you that when you live in a World that is good and positive it's a mervelous way of life. You see beauty and kindness everywhere you go.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      I don't believe in the law of attraction either, but this is what I do believe in.

      In everything you do in life, you must have a positive attitude and outlook.

      Because if you don't, and believe that it's not going to work even before
      you try, you're doomed to failure.

      I have done so many things simply because I made up my mind to do them.

      Sure, I've been unsuccessful with certain things I've tried. But the point is,
      I tried going in with a positive attitude.

      How many of the things I did have success with would I have failed at if
      I started with the attitude..."There's no way I can do this"

      I was told by so many people that my business model sucked and that it
      would never make me successful.

      6 figures a year later...I'm laughing in their faces.

      You have nothing if you don't the power of your own convictions.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        So what if people said that your business model wouldn't work. Getting the better of people isn't the way to go.
        Signature
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by ZigZag View Post

          So what if people said that your business model wouldn't work. Getting the better of people isn't the way to go.
          You gotta stop taking posts so literally.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            You gotta stop taking posts so literally.
            You should say what you mean Steven.
            Signature
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by ZigZag View Post

              You should say what you mean Steven.
              Apparently, you're not from the US. "Laughing in their faces" is an expression.
              It doesn't actually mean I'm laughing in their faces.

              Man, some people really need to get a life.
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              • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                Apparently, you're not from the US. "Laughing in their faces" is an expression.
                It doesn't actually mean I'm laughing in their faces.

                Man, some people really need to get a life.
                Steven I've read many of your posts and you're often talking about getting the better of people. That isn't a good thing to do. Don't you understand that?

                Here's an expression from England: "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." According to your statistics I guestimate that you've posted an average of 11 times a day--every single day--for the past 2.5+ years.

                So you can hardly tell anyone they should be getting a life.
                Signature
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by ZigZag View Post

                  Steven I've read many of your posts and you're often talking about getting the better of people. That isn't a good thing to do. Don't you understand that?

                  Here's an expression from England: "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." According to your statistics I guestimate that you've posted an average of 11 times a day--every single day--for the past 2.5+ years.

                  So you can hardly tell anyone they should be getting a life.
                  As I said, you've taken what I said way too literally and I'm done arguing
                  with you.

                  You can believe whatever you want to believe.

                  I care about as much as I care what the man on the moon thinks of me.

                  And in case you don't understand the above line, it's another expression.

                  And please don't accuse me of trying to get "over" on people because
                  you couldn't be more wrong. I have helped more people in a week than
                  you've probably helped in 5 years.

                  Sheeesh
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                  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                    And please don't accuse me of trying to get "over" on people because
                    you couldn't be more wrong. I have helped more people in a week than
                    you've probably helped in 5 years.
                    That's no excuse for being rude and telling people they should get a life when all their doing is giving you some friendly advice. We've created a positive atmosphere here and I trust that you will keep it that way.
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    • Profile picture of the author FreeAgent13
      It seems that people are confusing the effects one's thinking has on their actions for the manifestation of the Law of Attraction. While it is true that you are the result of your thought processes (i.e. if you are more optomistic of an action you will most likely act to accomplish said action), what the LOA claims is more ambitious.

      It claims that event of firing synapses in your brain, known as thoughts, in fact rearranges the very fabric of the universe to align with the nature of that thought.

      Not only is this scientifically unsubstantiated, but also comes into conflict with it's self and some of our commonly held beliefs such as free will. For example, what would happen if two individuals disired two conflicting outcomes to an event with the same ferverency, who will the universe grant the wish to. And if I constantly wished for someone to do something that is expressidly aganst his best interest, will he submit to the universe or thowart it with free will.
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
        Originally Posted by FreeAgent13 View Post

        Not only is this scientifically unsubstantiated, but also comes into conflict with it's self and some of our commonly held beliefs such as free will. For example, what would happen if two individuals disired two conflicting outcomes to an event with the same ferverency, who will the universe grant the wish to. And if I constantly wished for someone to do something that is expressidly aganst his best interest, will he submit to the universe or thwart it with free will.


        The dreamers do not use logic, it messes with their dreams.
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  • Profile picture of the author solardave
    I would rather believe in something and find out it's not true, then waste my life not believing in anything.At least I have purpose. Just my Opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Derrick
    When I changed how I thought about the world.... and how I felt... everything around me changed. My life changed dramatically. Everything in it did... I went from bankrupt to a thriving online business. I lost 100lbs... I overcame two so-called uncurable diseases..... my health improved dramatically.

    It is easy to make statements like "the law of attraciton is not real".

    It is easy to say "a lot of rich people say that it worked for them, but it's just a coincidence".

    Words are always easy to come by.

    ACTIONS.... actions on the other hand speak much louder than words.

    Results like mine are not rare.... in fact, they are the norm for people who wholeheartedly consciously change how they think and feel... a shift from the negative to the positive.

    Results speak much louder than words.
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  • Profile picture of the author fred59
    Enjoyed this post, don't know or care if the "Law Of Atraction" is ficitional or not but has shown me that I am in charge of my beliefs
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  • Profile picture of the author Charan Saini
    Hi Richard,
    If you have a strong belief and is prepared to give , you will receive back in life. If thats LOA, it works for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adaptive
    Quite a provocative title - superb headline copywriting!

    Unfortunately, the sales letter is quite a letdown!

    I would like to point out the weakness of such flawed beliefs.
    Fine, and it would be interesting to see the resulting conversation. However, you didn't do anything of the type:
    • You didn't summarize or define what particular beliefs you oppose
    • You didn't provide any evidence of weakness in those beliefs
    • You had one anecdote followed by your conclusion by assertion - which is no more powerful against LOA then it is in favor of LOA
    Please note that I've not given a hint about whether or not I believe in anything related to LOA concepts... I'm only pointing out that your headline oversells what you actually provided here! This is a mistake that results in a lack of sales, in either online marketing or persuasion!

    Regards,
    Allen
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
      Originally Posted by Adaptive View Post


      Fine, and it would be interesting to see the resulting conversation. However, you didn't do anything of the type:
      • You didn't summarize or define what particular beliefs you oppose
      • You didn't provide any evidence of weakness in those beliefs
      • You had one anecdote followed by your conclusion by assertion - which is no more powerful against LOA then it is in favor of LOA
      Regards,
      Allen
      I appreciate your nod towards the eye catching headline and would like to say how delighted I am that you have made the above points.

      This is exactly the method used by many if not most of the LOA propagandists.
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  • Profile picture of the author warnock
    Here is an interesting fact of physics that has just been proven. Lab experiments have proven that the observer affects the spin of an atom. And that spin will follow the intent of the observer. This makes a quantum connection with matter. Fact.
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    • Profile picture of the author aapillc
      Warnock,

      Where can I read about this, I would like to learn more.
      Ken

      Aekaplan,

      I like the conundrum.........
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      • Profile picture of the author garyt
        Originally Posted by aapillc View Post

        Warnock,

        Where can I read about this, I would like to learn more.
        Ken

        Aekaplan,

        I like the conundrum.........
        Dr Quantum - Double Slit Experiment :

        Mind bloggling experiment shows observer can affect outcome ...
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        • Profile picture of the author tonywarrior2
          This is an interesting and important thread.

          This is my experience. I watched The Secret probably two years ago. I found it inspiring but it was obvious to me that it isn't the whole story and I can see how some people might think it's a load of nonsense. However, based on the little I learned in the movie I decided to do three tests, each of which was pretty much outside the bounds of co-incidence. The results were that two of the 'tests' dramatically came about with not much more than my intense focus through visualisation. The third did not. Statistically I would need to do at least 31 tests to draw conclusions, but for me it felt like there was something worth investigating further. So I read 20 or 30 books about quantum science, LOA, metaphysics etc. Some were good, some were not so good but I learned a lot. I also watched the movie 'What the bleep do we know' but didn't like it too much.

          I also decided follow-up some of the speakers from The Secret. I settled on the books of Ester Hicks. I don't 'get' all of Ester's stuff but a lot of what she writes sort of resonates with me. The one thing that really made the difference for me was understanding and practising the concept of alignment. Understanding this to the extent that I feel it is a reality for me took around 18 months - yep, I pondered and experimented with the idea of alignment for a year and a half. I got into it and it led to some amazing things, like selling my house in a property recession (to the one person who came to look), moving to a new country where I don't speak the language (there was one mini-miracle after another) and so on. Anecdotes prove nothing really, but I share this because it might provide encouragement.

          I don't understand the science (the two quantum books I read made my head spin a bit) but I can sort of see a 'reality influencing' link between the idea of 'observing the electron makes it behave differently' and 'visualisation'.

          For me the key was to stay humble, to keep an open mind and to trust for good things of God / the Universe. There is something amazing holding all of life together (check out a book on 'The Field') and the more in tune with that power you are, the greater your success and peace of mind will be.

          Specifically about the LOA - I found Ester Hick's model really helpful. For her the LOA has three parts:

          -The law of attraction
          -The science of deliberate creation
          -The art of allowing

          But that's another story ...
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  • Profile picture of the author aekaplan
    Here's a conundrum for you all. The fact that the OP says that the law of attraction is fiction is evidence that the law of attraction is true! If you firmly believe that this law is false, then it will cease to work for you, because your belief in its falseness will dictate your actions in such a way to lead you to believe that it is untrue. You attract it not working for you by virtue of your belief.

    The law of attraction works when you allow yourself to believe it! That simple.
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    • Profile picture of the author total_freedom
      Originally Posted by aekaplan View Post

      Here's a conundrum for you all. The fact that the OP says that the law of attraction is fiction is evidence that the law of attraction is true! If you firmly believe that this law is false, then it will cease to work for you, because your belief in its falseness will dictate your actions in such a way to lead you to believe that it is untrue. You attract it not working for you by virtue of your belief.

      The law of attraction works when you allow yourself to believe it! That simple.
      If one has to believe in it in order for it to work, then it's the law of belief, not attraction.

      If it's a true law, then it works regardless of what a person does, or doesn't do, believes or doesn't believe, and that's where many people are confused.

      As Stephen Covey says, you can choose principles, such as honesty, loyalty, integrity, etc.

      But can one choose a universal law? One can only become aware of it, and act accordingly.

      If it is truly a law, then like would always attract like. But not so in magnets: positive attracts negative

      Abraham (Esther Hicks alter Ego) suggests this is the law in action. That one 'like' (criminal) attracts a complimentary 'like' (victim) based on what they think and feel.

      It's based on frequency, according them. If both are on a lower & similar frequency, then they will eventually gravitate towards each other.

      On the surface, it goes against their own axiom - like attracting like. But if you go with their reasoning, it makes sense.

      We can see evidence in watching people in groups. Whether it's clothing, hair style, or whatever - we see people around whom they are like.

      We also see the opposite - two people who have no business being around each other, sharing the same space. Oh! They have the same thoughts then!

      If that's the case, then everyone has something in common with everyone else: you got a nose, oh hey, I have one, too!

      In the end, if everyone KNEW the law of attraction was REAL, I would imagine their thoughts and behaviors would radically shift, and the world would see a dramatic difference in human beings.

      One person who knows this stuff deeply would be changing their own life and the lives of those around them.

      Are we witnessing that? Is that anyone's experience here?
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  • Profile picture of the author garyt
    The LOA (a hyped up term, no doubt) states that we attract everything we experience in our life - including diseases, bad weather, accidents, lottery wins, etc

    This is so hard for people to believe because it can never be proven - like religion. There will always be people on both side of the fence and they can and will find evidence to "prove" their stand but these are never real proof.

    What I believe is this : forget about LOA, just know that having a positive mental attitude all the time is the way to happiness, wealth and health.

    Then it will not conflict with another thoughts of attracting terrorists, cancer, etc into your life. Can't prove it is true or false so why waste time on it?
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  • Profile picture of the author richard515680
    According to 'wikipedia', some of the criticism stems from the mis-understanding of quantum physics! Mind blowing!
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    Hey Richard - this is quoted from Blair Warren - he posted it
    here on WF a while back and I dug it out of his blog. Hope you
    get a laugh

    I've been asked to elaborate on the Law of Extraction which I mentioned in a recent post. Since many of you have been using the Law of Attraction trying to get this information out of me, I am, of course, powerless to say no.

    But first, I must confess the Law of Extraction isn't my idea. It was revealed to me recently by a channeled spirit named Ralph while I was trying to tune into a weak radio station.

    Apparently this law has been known by great hucksters throughout history and kept hidden from the masses for nearly a hundred years. Only now is this information being made available to the general public.

    May it bring you the happiness and success it has brought to countless gurus past and present.

    And now, as revealed to me by Ralph, here are...

    The Nine Steps of the Law of Extraction

    1. Promise people something they desperately want, no matter how ludicrous it may be.

    For example, promise to show people - for a price, of course - how to get everything without doing anything.

    2. Make the process for achieving this sound as mysterious as possible. For example, call it a mystery or maybe even a secret.

    3. Legitimize your process by quoting a scientist or two. This way you can claim your process is actually "based" on science.

    4. Assure people your process is foolproof. That is, anyone can do it and it will work every time all the time. Calling it a universal law is helpful in this regard.

    5. Include a universal loophole so that when the process fails you can place the blame elsewhere.

    For example, "The reason it didn't work is because you didn't do it right. Fortunately, there are advanced techniques that can help you."

    Notice, this loophole not only deflects blame, but also creates additional revenue streams (see points 6 and 7).

    6. Sell advanced techniques in the form of high-dollar, back-end products, seminars and coaching programs using a multi-level commission structure in order to maximize revenue extraction.

    7. Offer high-dollar "Certification Programs" to license others to sell your process to others. Be sure to require your licensees to also pay you a sizable percentage of any future sales they may make.

    8. Focus your efforts on the right target audience. As the old saying goes, you can fool some people all of the time and they are the ones you need to focus on.

    9. Express gratitude at least three times a day for all the abundance the Law of Extraction is bringing into your life.

    Remember, the Law of Extraction is based on the principle that hope attracts money. Take pride in knowing that you are not only creating abundance for yourself, but doing well by your fellow man.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
      Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye View Post

      Hey Richard - this is quoted from Blair Warren - he posted it
      here on WF a while back and I dug it out of his blog. Hope you
      get a laugh

      Excellent - I am so happy to have 'attracted' that
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  • Profile picture of the author jediknight6
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
      Originally Posted by jediknight6 View Post

      As Shakespeare said there are many things between heaven and earth, Horatio, that your philosophy cannot explain... Truth has many levels, only as you awaken to realms unaccessible to the logical mind do you understand the deeper truths.
      Actually, Shakespeare has the character Hamlet say;


      And therefore as a stranger give it welcome.
      There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
      Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.


      While Hamlet (believes he) is talking to his Fathers ghost.

      Just about as scientific as the LOA, wouldn't you say?
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  • Profile picture of the author jamesviago
    LOA - an impossible discussion. cannot be proven (yet).
    law of extraction (as posted above) - hilarious, thank you!

    here's what i think happens - that makes people believe in LOA:

    1) the brain uses "beliefs about reality" to create perception filters.
    2) those filters increase awareness and acceptance of things consistent with the beliefs, while blinding us to things inconsistent with the beliefs.
    3) the person now experiences a bias in the environment consistent with the beliefs (even though an independent unbiased observer may be able to prove that no actual bias exists)
    4) the person responds to the perceived change as if it were real, and gets results accordingly.

    example from my busines:

    when our sales people think "the market is tough", they filter their environment (and gather evidence) and alter their actions consistent with that beleif... and wow! our sales go down.

    when our sales people think "the market is hot", they filter their environment (and gather evidence) and alter their actions consistent with that belief... and wow! our sales go up.

    simple causality. no universal law, no quantum mysteries required.

    does LOA exist on some metaphysical level? i don't really care.

    my job is to influence the beliefs of my sale team, to cause them to believe things that result in them taking actions that cause sales to increase.

    you can call that LOA - it certainly seems "mysterious" to many people - and of course it "works" so that solidifies belief. but that's why so many people "try and fail" with LOA; they expect some mystical power to deliver the results - forgetting that action (by you and the people you influence) that is consistent with the belief is vital, as my example shows. the author of The Secret gets that - "Ask, Believe, Recieve" - if you ain't receiving, then you asked wrong or didn't believe strongly enough... that makes it sound like magic, but...

    ...it's nothing more than the simple and well-documented cause-and-effect of human behaviour.

    Either way, you can get on with using it to be successful. no need to wonder if you're "doing it right", it's neither magic nor rocket science.

    good luck all.
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    The brain is a "sorting" machine... of sorts. There is a part of
    brain function called the "reticular activating mechanism" which
    basically sorts out all the stuff we aren't focused on seeing.

    If you've ever taken heavy psychedelics basically they make
    your sorting function go haywire and a lot more gets in and
    it can get very confusing.

    Autistic people have a lot more information "getting in" so they
    develop ways to cope with the onslaught... the noise of it all.

    If you buy a red corvette suddenly you will see other red corvettes
    as if many more people have them... it's just your brain sorting for
    what you are focused on.

    I don't believe we "attract" things into our lives, but if we focus
    on spotting opportunities, for example, we will see many more of
    them.

    No magical thinking required.
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  • Profile picture of the author estateguy
    Man's greatest illusion is their own realtiy
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  • Profile picture of the author Brett Dunham
    "The greatest revolution in our generation is the discovery that human beings, by changing the inner attitudes of their minds, can change the outer aspects of their lives" William James

    I appreciate your opinion and think that the "Secret" takes it a little far. But I firmly believe that our thoughts are extremely powerful and capable of more than either you or I know. Who knows? Why does it bother you what other people believe, I guess there is no tooth ferry either. Live and let Live Brother!
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
      Originally Posted by Brett Dunham View Post

      I appreciate your opinion and think that the "Secret" takes it a little far. But I firmly believe that our thoughts are extremely powerful and capable of more than either you or I know. Who knows? Why does it bother you what other people believe, I guess there is no tooth ferry either. Live and let Live Brother!
      There is nothing 'Secret' about acting on your own thoughts.

      One example the fantasists cite is the so called 'ability' to 'attract' a parking space en route to their destination, using, of course, the LOA.

      It is this belief - that stuff going on inside their heads can directly affect other peoples actions and thereby achieve a pre-determined result that amazes me.

      What I object is not that super-gullible people swallow this garbage as fact, it's the use of this fiction to scam money out of the poor suckers who buy into it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Samsmiles
    Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox View Post

    I was surprised to find this sort of tosh in the 'Warrior' forums.

    So, to reprise my earlier post I would like to point out the weakness of such flawed beliefs.

    I am aware than many successful people propagate versions of this so-called law.

    But remember, they want to sell to as wide an audience as possible.



    Let's not exclude the daydreamers, hey!





    *****************



    There is a true story about an Englishman who was in New York on business strolling along the sidewalk.

    He passes a ringing public payphone, and, out of curiosity, answers it.

    The person on the phone is known to him, it is a colleague from his London office.

    They had intended to ring someone else in New York, but mis-dialled and he happened to answer.

    Now here is the point.

    If he had been thinking about that person or his office, this event would have seemed like magic, or the LOA.

    But it would have happened anyway.

    People with flimsy belief systems are happy to attach the 'LOA" label when if works in their favour.

    But do not in the TRILLIONS of instances when it does not.

    You are fooling yourselves by attaching great importance to nothing more than a series of coincidences where you are the sole arbiter.

    For every LOA event that 'works' there are several trillion that do not - thereby disproving the theory, using the very same logic.

    so, to summarize.


    The 'Law' of Attraction is a fiction and does not exist in any way, shape or form.

    As long a you have faith in it, you will look for reasons to support it, so you don't look like an idiot. That is human nature.

    Give it up and get real.

    Life is much more fun that way.
    Hello Richard,

    Read the "Master Key System" by Charles Haanel.

    Haanel explains what the L.O.A. really is about, (not like the rubbish in the "Secret" and some of the other crappy so called "selfhelp" books), and most important he explains WHY it works!

    C.H. was the inspiration behind N. Hill and (it is said) Bill Gates. And reading and studying Haanel's work has helped little 'ol me make some nice money too !

    If you want a text copy of the book send me a PM.

    Prosperity to us all!

    David
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  • Profile picture of the author raydp
    Loa and Lol - one letter difference.

    I too find it amazing that otherwise rational people fall for this tosh.

    If your talking positive thinking, that's another matter.

    Now what was that I was reading about the Tooth Fairy...

    Ray
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  • Profile picture of the author chrisoldcorn
    I guess if you "attract" that the "law of attraction" doesn't work it actually is working.
    Signature

    Chris Oldcorn
    The Now

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  • Profile picture of the author RayAndLisaJ
    As long a you have faith in it, you will look for reasons to support it, so you don't look like an idiot. That is human nature.

    Give it up and get real.

    Life is much more fun that way.
    So life is more fun not to have your own belief system? It is more fun to drop your faith to agree with someone who disbelives in your faith?

    Listen if your bashing "The Secret" for going a bit overboard with the principles of the LOA, I'm with you on that 100%. But to try and bash the whole principle is also way off. If you want to enjoy a movie that in my opinion does a much more accurate job of depicting the LOA try "The Awakening" with Patrick Combs.

    I think this is a much more down to earth prospective. I'd share a link but then that would probably be considered spamming.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
      Originally Posted by RayAndLisaJ View Post

      So life is more fun not to have your own belief system?

      Well as you should by now have realized, this thread refers specifically to the fiction that is the 'LOA" and not any other belief systems.
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    Here's a story -

    On Twitter the other day some dude I was following for no
    particular reason Tweeted about "The liberals" - in a somewhat
    derogatory way...

    and I messaged him back saying "you know man, labeling people
    isn't accurate. You might be surprised at the reasons people
    have for voting the way they do..." (that isn't what I said,
    but since I got the idea the fellow had been listening to radio
    pundits who like to paint groups of people with a very broad
    brush I wanted to make a point.

    Here's the point - most people operate out of belief systems.
    the beliefs in the systems support each other. In this case
    there was a fellow who maybe has a set of values and he
    conveniently is able to label a whole group of people whose
    values he doesn't agree with/understand as "liberals" (meaning
    "THEM") - creating a very safe-feeling US/THEM tribal feeling.

    Ie. "we are the people with the smarter values and THEY are
    the people who smoke pot and don't have their heads on straight."

    I'm extrapolating here - don't take me too seriously :p

    SO - what we have is that most people are walking around with
    a whole barrelful of beliefs that form a system and have an
    associated vocabulary for labeling one's own experiences and
    other people, their values, their activities - usually in the context
    of being "LIKE US" or "Not like us - like THEM!"

    This is tribal consciousness I think - we would be well-served
    if we could outgrow it sometime... but for the meantime it
    sort of shows why people develop belief systems and more
    importantly, defend them so fervently.

    We all have 'em - but some of us are more skeptical of the
    basis-in-reality of our beliefs than others. I'm always looking
    not for what is convenient of "feels good" to believe, or more
    accurately, think and behave as if IT were true, but for the
    most accurate model of how other people REALLY behave
    and the way things work.

    Ie. the law of gravity seems pretty darn reliable.

    The law of attraction is... well, a label for a set of beliefs some
    people have.
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  • Profile picture of the author VMN
    If you will pay attention to your thoughts and feelings, you will see.

    You get what you think about whether wanted or not.

    Victoria
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  • Profile picture of the author yosis
    It seems to all come down to Repetition. If you think a certain way over many days than something in your life is bound to happen to reflect that way of thinking. Also, some people have repeatedly thought of themselves as a failure...so it prevent them from taking the actions they need to get what they really want. While I too found some things problematic with the Secret...I think it can still help people get out their ruts so to speak.
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  • Profile picture of the author Karen Connell
    Live and let live.

    If it makes someone FEEL GOOD to believe in The Law of Attraction why do you feel it necessary to try and make them feel wrong for believing.

    I use the theory of The Law of Attraction to live my life and it makes me feel good.

    What is wrong with that?

    Karen
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    Never Mistake Activity for Accomplishment

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    • Profile picture of the author bionictortoise
      You're entitled to your opinion, but to call something 'tosh' means you are giving something you don't want - attention. This will ensure you get more of it! The LOA works, whether you believe in it or not.

      I read 'How To Be Happy' years ago (from the 80s) by Andrew Mathews and the advice is very pragmatic and not daydreamy at all. It is very simple - a kid could grasp it. And there are humorous cartoons that break up the text nicely too.

      But looking back, there are parts of that book that conform to the LOA, and yet it is a lot more subtle than 'The Secret' (which, although I agree with, I think it was written in a very naive manner).

      Whenever I needed a day to go right, I told myself it would do, and it did (without fail). So this fact enabled me to have faith in the system. I always knew it worked before I knew it was called the Law of Attraction.

      I feel so sorry for people without this knowledge, because life is so much harder for them.

      Or put another way Sh*t happens - it's how you deal with it.

      People who complain find it a lot more difficult to be happy. Who really suffers at the end of the day? - The complainant!

      The fact you have gone to the trouble of composing a thread about it, means you will get more of the stuff you call 'tosh'! The only way to break the cycle is to give it a go.

      The way I see it, if it could change your life immeasurably, what have you got to lose? You could just try it out for a day. If it doesn't work, ask yourself, "Did I really open my mind to its possibility or not?"

      Try the great day exercise. If you believe tomorrow will be brilliant from start to finish, it will. AND no it won't JUST be your attitude that makes cool stuff happen. Stuff will happen that's so cool, you'll be blown away!

      I wonder if you read or watched ALL of The Secret. What about the guy who put a picture of his dream house and forgot about it after moving house several times? Then he found he was living in that EXACT house - not one like it - the same one!

      And how can you explain what happened to the gay comedian? Coincidences happen, but THAT many?
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      "It does not matter how slowly you go as long as you do not stop" - Confucius
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  • Profile picture of the author nvs74191
    Hello

    Consider this:

    There is nothing inside of you that can create a thought - you can only receive and emit them, as your brain acts as a transmitter/receiver, somewhat like a radio which tunes into a frequency to produce sounds.

    You come to know this by experience (as in actualy observing) which is attained by meditation. In fact, if you spend long enough observing your thoughts, you will find that every thought you have arrives as a vibration first, then is mentalized by your past experience, assigned a label and presented as "your thought".

    Look at why you are friendly with some people and not so with certain others. You tend to attract into your sphere of experience people with like minded nature. This is in fact an extension of how you look at a certain vibration and decide if you want to allow it into your world or not. If you choose to allow the vibration, your past experience and conditionings determine how you label the vibration as a thought, and claim it as your thought. (look at a rabbit in front of a rabbit vis a vis a rabbit in front of a wolf. The vibrations of the rabbit will be different in each case).

    LOA works in a similar way, by conscious use of vibrations that you put out in the universe, and these vibrations you put out gather force and strength, when similar vibrations existing already in the universe (you are not the only one emitting and transmitting) find your vibrations and join forces with them.

    Once these vibrational alignment happens, circumstances, events and people arrange themselves in ways conducive to make your vibration a reality in your experience.(Please also know that by you getting what you desire it does not mean others are getting deprived - the law of balance in the universe ensures that you are matched with someone out there who does not want the thing you want. It is like ebay, matching buyer with seller) Our minds cannot imagine in what way our vibration will become a reality, as we don't have access to, so to speak, the universal database. Just like in ebay - the buyer does not know the seller and vice versa. But they are hooked up to make the transaction go through.

    Don't forget that every conceivable thing you can think of is already there, only it is not in your field of experience (think Reticular Activation). When you are in vibrational alignment, it is in fact impossible for you not to have it. Think of all the things you have in your life. Has anything happened without you first having a thought about it? or desire for it?

    This said, I look at people writing articles and books on LOA without understanding the roots of the mental science, and scratching the surface. I take pity on the people who are lured into buying ebooks and audios that don't actually have a firm foundational knowledge behind them. This is the reason many people say LOA doesn't work. I say it is impossible for it not to work, as the evolution of mankind and the universe in fact depends on it.

    Our Maker has taken the autopilot route to managing - set the law of cause and effect into motion, and take your hands off. It works on autopilot. I can't think of God taking time to answer all prayers landing in his helpdesk. He would go mad. This is where the law of cause and effect, the law of attraction kicks in. It continuously operates to create experiences in your life, so that God can run a hands free operation - once he has set up the system, he can work on other projects and ebooks.

    In fact, yogis and mystics spend years acquiring the deep knowledge about how to mind works and how to control it. They work with the breath to influence the intensity of the vibrations etc. and to slow down their thought vibrations to reach the stillness conducive to experientially realizing their "self".

    Once you know how it works you have the means of right use of the mind with you. Till you get this knowledge, you should not, and in fact cannot effectively, teach others. I believe Joe Vitale is almost there, but not yet fully there.
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    Swaminathan

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  • Profile picture of the author Igor Kheifets
    Mr. Cox,
    I think that it was stupid of you
    to even think to start this thread due
    to the simple fact that all of us knew
    how it was going to play out.

    I will not try to argue with you because it
    is pointless and it will just boost up the egos here,
    including yours and mine, but I would only like to
    state that the law of attraction is the most powerful
    law in the universe.

    ~Igor
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard A.Cox
      Originally Posted by igorhelpsyousucceed View Post

      Mr. Cox,
      I think that it was stupid of you
      to even think to start this thread
      OK so let me see if I have this right.

      YOU 'think' that 'I' was (past tense) stupid to start a thread - in a forum.

      OK, guess we can shut this place down now!
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      • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
        Originally Posted by Richard A.Cox View Post

        OK so let me see if I have this right.

        YOU 'think' that 'I' was (past tense) stupid to start a thread - in a forum.

        OK, guess we can shut this place down now!
        yup I guess only preaching to the choir is allowed here
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        :)

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  • Profile picture of the author Nahar
    You made some valid points, but the LOA is one of those things that are hard to prove or disprove. You have no evidence it doesn't work. Just because somebody made a movie about it and makes good money proves nothing. And I'm sorry but I really don't think you actually counted "trillions" of instances where the LOA didn't work. You simply chose not to believe it (and the Universe said: "Your wish is my command.").
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  • Profile picture of the author Adaptive
    C.H. was the inspiration behind N. Hill and (it is said) Bill Gates.
    David, I've read the Master Key book and I've seen the same claims you just mentioned - that it inspired both Hill and Gates.

    Given what I know about them, this seems believable. However, I haven't been able to find anything more about these connections. Is there some place where I could read more of the story?

    Regards,
    Allen
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    Success only requires four words. http://www.warriorforum.com/blogs/ad...our-words.html

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    • Profile picture of the author AuPhalanx
      Originally Posted by Adaptive View Post

      David, I've read the Master Key book and I've seen the same claims you just mentioned - that it inspired both Hill and Gates.

      Given what I know about them, this seems believable. However, I haven't been able to find anything more about these connections. Is there some place where I could read more of the story?

      Regards,
      Allen
      Hi, Allen!

      Please see -

      Charles F. Haanel

      Have fun ... Tony.
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