Osho: Think and Grow Rich is dangerous & harmful!

56 replies
Positive Thinking: Philosophy for Phonies

"The technique of positive thinking is not a technique that transforms you. It is simply repressing the negative aspects of your personality. It is a method of choice. It cannot help awareness; it goes against awareness. Awareness is always choiceless."

"Positive thinking simply means forcing the negative into the unconscious and conditioning the conscious mind with positive thoughts. But the trouble is that the unconscious is far more powerful, nine times more powerful, than the conscious mind. So once a thing becomes unconscious, it becomes nine times more powerful than it was before. It may not show in the old fashion, but it will find new ways of expression."

What do you think?
#dangerous #grow #harmful #osho #rich
  • Profile picture of the author Goro999
    isn't that the book (Think and Grow Rich) network marketers promote all the time? read some of it about what henry ford did like make a lot of mistakes until he got his engine prototypes to work
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  • Profile picture of the author C G
    Napoleon Hill's book changed my life into better.

    Is methods worked for me. That's all that counts

    Cheers,

    C.G.
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    • Profile picture of the author mariamcm
      C G: Indeed, a lot of these methods will work if people are prepared to work at them. Too many people give up too soon, or have outlandish expectations and then claim the methods are rubbish. I read tons of these types of books years ago, and though I enjoyed them and intend to really stick with them, within a week or so I'd usually 'reverted to type'. However once I started to apply the techniques within a new system I've created (watch this space!, the results started to show up big time! The'Secret' is to do the work - and that means working on yourself day and night. It's incredibly exciting when it does start to work. Glad you liked Napoleon Hill's book; it's a classic and belongs up there at the top of the tree with all the greats in the genre.
      Maria
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  • Profile picture of the author fdebvrg
    I have always thought same thing but I never put it in words like the great osho. If subconscious is much powerful then we must tame that side of us correct? But how to do?

    Whenever I do postive thinkings, I always feel I'm fighting losing battle. It feels like I'm forcing to feel something I don't believe completely.

    I heard hypnosis helps to tame subconscious. Is it helping any body here?
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    • Profile picture of the author Luisma1972
      Originally Posted by fdebvrg View Post

      I have always thought same thing but I never put it in words like the great osho. If subconscious is much powerful then we must tame that side of us correct? But how to do?

      Whenever I do postive thinkings, I always feel I'm fighting losing battle. It feels like I'm forcing to feel something I don't believe completely.

      I heard hypnosis helps to tame subconscious. Is it helping any body here?
      As far as I know, to tame the subconscious mind is not easy or even possible. More effective and practical is to change nocive habits like this you just describe "I always feel I'm fighting losing battle". The word "always" in the sentence is self limiting, and magnifies a non desirable thought. If you change that for something like "I some times feel I'm fighting losing battle" you will lessen the negative impact this feeling has on you.

      The way we think and how we react to our thoughts can be shaped. There are a few techniques that can help to accomplish those goals, the one I mentioned before is just one of them, a powerful one indeed.

      Changing behaviours, habits or even beliefs can be done, It takes effort and commitment but the rewards are great.
      Interesting enough is that, what you want to do is replace bad habits with more desirable ones and make them part of your unconscious mind.

      The subject is quite extensive to be treated in a single post, I recommend you to investigate further on neuro linguistic programming (NLP)

      Hope this help
      Luis
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    • Profile picture of the author mariamcm
      Originally Posted by fdebvrg View Post

      I have always thought same thing but I never put it in words like the great osho. If subconscious is much powerful then we must tame that side of us correct? But how to do?

      Whenever I do postive thinkings, I always feel I'm fighting losing battle. It feels like I'm forcing to feel something I don't believe completely.

      I heard hypnosis helps to tame subconscious. Is it helping any body here?
      Hi, you are fighting a losing battle because the real issues are your self-limiting beliefs that are buried underneath what you 'consciously' want. You've even said it quite clearly in your comment 'I'm forcing to feel something I don't believe completely'. So if you really don't believe it, that's your true belief and that's the message you give out to the 'Universe'. I'm a certified hypnotherapist/NLP practitioner and for sure hypnosis can help because it allows you to get access to that deep inner mind to make the changes there. I've had phenomenal results with it. Please visit my website Brainwave Entrainment & Cogni-Fusion Technology - Atuneu where you can download 3 free MP3s with my personal style of therapy. I hope you'll let me know how you get on!
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  • Profile picture of the author RogozRazvan
    Works for me. I don't care what Osho says.

    Everyone is blaming everyone in this industry anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Amazing book: (Stood the test of time and made countless people more successful.)

    There are "negative" opinions on just about everything. In fact many writers go against popular opinion for the "sensationalism factor."
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    • Profile picture of the author heavysm
      Meh, now we're bringing in the people who do nothing but think all day lol

      Philosophy can be cool but it is dangerous for its over analysis of simple stuff. The key there is "simple stuff"...you know the sort of things that shouldn't be over thought.

      It is my firm belief that Mr. Hill's Think and Grow Rich is only a tiny slice of a much larger self development picture.

      I noticed how Osho doesn't mention releasing or the letting go of the bad that we may carry, including limiting beliefs that may be seated deep in our sub-conscious mind.

      And yes, there are ways to loosen up those old nagging and unhelpful beliefs where we can then replace them with whatever we wish.

      Osho is only attacking a small piece of the puzzle so i can't really take him seriously here.

      It's almost like pointing to a car with a single flat and torn up tire and asking how the car will ever ride smoothly again. There is A LOT more to the process than just that one piece of the car.
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    • Profile picture of the author Gh0zt
      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

      Amazing book: (Stood the test of time and made countless people more successful.)

      There are "negative" opinions on just about everything. In fact many writers go against popular opinion for the "sensationalism factor."
      Exactly - its a damn good tactic, clearly it's got people talking and intrieged.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Originally Posted by Gh0zt View Post

        Exactly - its a damn good tactic, clearly it's got people talking and intrigued.
        True. Remember though that it's also got people thinking that Osho is a dumbass.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    Originally Posted by yesboss View Post

    What do you think?
    I think the author has no idea what they're talking about.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    who is Osho and did he read think and grow rich..or just assume it was an earlier version of the power of positive thinking ?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    The fact is, nearly everyone who has read that (or any other) book has done absolutely sweet F***-ALL with it.

    FACT.

    Lazy people wanting magic results.

    I read that book when I was in my early 20s. I DID the things it said to do. I made a 'brief.' I'm the only person I know who did. I used that brief to have several jobs created for me that did not exist before I got there. I made plans and implemented them. I changed those plans as needed but kept the same goals.

    Most people are so lazy and then they wonder why nothing happens. I am tired of it and have no sympathy anymore. If you want to whine that nothing happens, or spout this baloney the OP has linked to (no offense, OP; it's fine for discussion) then go sit on your derriere and accomplish nothing. You can concentrate on that crap (it represses what??! Get OUT THERE AND DO SOMETHING!!) or you can take intelligent, meaningful, emotional action. Anyone who takes that kind of action immediately has my support. The rest...you may as well go back to your minimum wage jobs now.

    This is the real world, and this is how it is.

    The missing thing with the Law of Attraction is EFFORT. Effort is required. You don't just imagine something and Presto! there it is...as a newbie. You have decades of lousy programming and thinking to overcome before you can manifest that way. Later on, maybe you can do that...manifest without much effort at all...but for now, at the beginning, it's like trying to lift 150 lbs when you just started out at the gym. It's not gonna happen and you're going to complain about it...and it might even hurt.

    Hill is crystal clear in TAGR that you must create detailed plans with quantifiable goals, and put them into ACTION. He never says, "Just sit on your behind wishing, and it will come to you." Sometime in the future, when you have that flywheel rolling, then yes, you may be able to put a smackdown of intention upon your world and produce the result quickly and without much action. But right now, you're a 120-pound weakling. Don't go near those giant weights.

    What Hill is getting at is most people defeat themselves before they start. They think, "I could never do that," or "Nobody could do that,' and it's Game Over. I've done it myself. Silly. We have no idea what we can or cannot do unless we don't even try. The first step to accomplishment IS believing you can do it. So if you don't think positively, "Yes, I can accomplish this--I don't know how long it will take, or what it will take, or what I will have to learn to do so...but I am committed to it and will do whatever is necessary for however long is required." Do Or Die.

    Stop hopping from thing to thing. Pick ONE quantifiable goal. Develop detailed plans to accomplish them. Be ready to change those plans based on reliable feedback. But STICK TO THE GOAL.

    If your goal doesn't inspire you, and make you say to yourself, "Duh, of course I'm sticking to it come hell or high water," you don't really believe. Review your beliefs. Is this goal big enough for you? Or is it Thinking Small? A lame goal will leave you unwilling to take action. A strong goal will pull you forward like a powerful magnet. If comments from friends, family or strangers are enough to bump you off target, review your beliefs and goal again. These people know less than you do. I guarantee it.

    Quit worrying about whether Hill is right nor not, and pick a freakin' GOAL!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

      The fact is, nearly everyone who has read that (or any other) book has done absolutely sweet F***-ALL with it.

      FACT.

      Lazy people wanting magic results.
      Fact? mmm...that's probably a bit of a stretch.

      Thankfully that's not my experience at all. It rocked my world and absolutely had an effect on me. Changed the way I think instantly and I used the suggestions and inferences to completely turn my life around. It's one of the top 3 most influential books I've ever read. Everyone who I've spoken to who read it says it had a profound effect on them as well. I guess I hang around a lot with a very special minority.

      As long as the book has a positive effect on the reader's life then I think it's done it's job and with that as the measure I'd say the opposite (to "nearly all people do nothing with it") is more likely to be the truth in this case.
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  • Profile picture of the author elusian
    I love that book. My first coach made me read it three times before agreeing to coach me. It changed my life. The information is transformative if you actually apply it.

    Do we all have underlying self defeating programs? Well of course. Should we work on digging them up and changing them? Definitely. At the same time, a book like this helps you keep your end goal in mind. It challenges you to keep the passion to succeed burning at full blast.

    The bottom line though is that it is, like most books of its kind, a powerful tool. And like any type of tool, you need to use it to see results.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dain Supero
    Originally Posted by yesboss View Post

    Positive Thinking: Philosophy for Phonies

    "The technique of positive thinking is not a technique that transforms you. It is simply repressing the negative aspects of your personality. It is a method of choice. It cannot help awareness; it goes against awareness. Awareness is always choiceless."

    "Positive thinking simply means forcing the negative into the unconscious and conditioning the conscious mind with positive thoughts. But the trouble is that the unconscious is far more powerful, nine times more powerful, than the conscious mind. So once a thing becomes unconscious, it becomes nine times more powerful than it was before. It may not show in the old fashion, but it will find new ways of expression."

    What do you think?
    I think others here have sufficiently covered the various flaws in this quotation. In other words, it's been thoroughly owned.

    I for one would simply like to know how this person concluded that the unconscious mind is precisely "9" times more powerful than the conscious mind (which in reality is the most powerful tool available to a human being).
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Stewart
    It's amazing how people are STILL using the popularity of Think And Grow Rich in order to click-bait people into reading their articles. It just goes to show how this old, CLASSIC text has stood the test of time.

    TAGR has helped many people, and has changed my mindset for the better. I recommend it.
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    • from Jason

      The missing thing with the Law of Attraction is EFFORT. Effort is required.

      I agree effort, action is the "1 thing", the essential.. not the mind

      Buddha had to stand up and move (action) after sitting under the tree all that time, didn't he?

      Maybe, Mr. Hill, in the 1950's, had a different definition and cultural relevance to what "think" meant??? maybe ..... it included, or assumed Action


      If you consider the bigger "unconscious mind", so what!

      It seems to me, that taking action, leads the way, and "all of the mind" must follow anyway.

      IMO but I could be wrong.
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      • Profile picture of the author RogozRazvan
        Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

        from Jason

        The missing thing with the Law of Attraction is EFFORT. Effort is required.

        I agree effort, action is the "1 thing", the essential.. not the mind

        Buddha had to stand up and move (action) after sitting under the tree all that time, didn't he?

        Maybe, Mr. Hill, in the 1950's, had a different definition and cultural relevance to what "think" meant??? maybe ..... it included, or assumed Action


        If you consider the bigger "unconscious mind", so what!

        It seems to me, that taking action, leads the way, and "all of the mind" must follow anyway.

        IMO but I could be wrong.
        Actually, I'm reading it now for a third time and every few pages it talks about taking action and never giving up. The entire philosophy is based around building a plan and executing it.
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  • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
    yesboss,

    In the end, life is a myriad of choices....

    Those who choose to be negative will probably also choose to do nothing...

    Those who choose to be positive will probably also choose to take some action.... and eventually succeed.

    Is it the "positive mindset" alone that makes one succeed? I don't think so...

    Thinking positive leads the person to act... It is the action coupled with positive expectations that makes one successful.

    All the Best,

    Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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    • Thinking positive leads the person to act... It is the action coupled with positive expectations that makes one successful.

      so true RichBeck

      Neuroscience shows us at the moments before and during that "positive expectation"

      is experienced, Dopamine (the reward brain chemical) floods us with the impetus to move.

      To Act.

      You might have noticed from experience, when you "look forward" to something (a party), that turns out to feel better than the actual event.

      I could be off here, but the Law of Attraction by itself seems to me like daydreaming???
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

        I could be off here, but the Law of Attraction by itself seems to me like daydreaming???
        Hi Kirby.

        That's just how LOA was illustrated in the movie "The Secret." The original definition (which is true, in my opinion) is that like attracts like and that by focusing on positive, empowering thoughts, you will attract positive results and experiences into your life.

        Like you and Rich said:

        Positive Thoughts = Positive Actions = Positive Results. (It all begins with your thoughts.)
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        • Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          Hi Kirby.

          That's just how LOA was illustrated in the movie "The Secret." The original definition (which is true, in my opinion) is that like attracts like and that by focusing on positive, empowering thoughts, you will attract positive results and experiences into your life.

          Like you and Rich said:

          Positive Thoughts = Positive Actions = Positive Results. (It all begins with your thoughts.)
          Thanks for correcting me. did not remember the movie, and books clearly.

          how about this.

          when you say "it all begins in your thoughts", it's the chicken and the egg thing???

          does it matter what came 1st? If I Act As If, won't the corresponding thoughts (and feelings) arise?

          love Jonathan's equation!
          trying to get to a source,

          a source code...be a dreamer and a doer!
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          • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
            Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

            Thanks for correcting me. did not remember the movie, and books clearly.

            how about this.

            when you say "it all begins in your thoughts", it's the chicken and the egg thing???

            does it matter what came 1st? If I Act As If, won't the corresponding thoughts (and feelings) arise?

            love Jonathan's equation!
            trying to get to a source,

            a source code...be a dreamer and a doer!
            Kirby,

            I would personally define the equation this way....

            Positive Thoughts + Positive Actions = Positive Results

            You would read it from left to right.....

            All The Best,

            Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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          • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
            Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

            when you say "it all begins in your thoughts", it's the chicken and the egg thing???

            does it matter what came 1st? If I Act As If, won't the corresponding thoughts (and feelings) arise?!
            It is kind of like the chicken and egg thing. In the sense that Positive Results=Positive Thoughts=Positive Actions. They're interchangeable
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  • Profile picture of the author imogenhobbs
    Both sides have their own truths.

    I highly respect Osho as a teacher of meditation - I meditate daily as well. He's not wrong. If we try to repress negative thoughts, we will end up channelling it in various ways.

    In Freudian psychology, there are various forms of "mature" mental defenses, namely the following: Altruism, Anticipation, Humour, Identification, Intellectualization, Introjection, Sublimation, Thought suppression

    I think it's easy to practice the LOA in the wrong way since it is so open to any interpretation. It could actually be mentally unhealthy if you were to approach it in a backwards-rationalization or denial kind of way. I think it's far easier to sublimate the emotion and reinterpret it in a socially-safe way. That's my take on true positive thinking. It's not simply donning a mask of happiness and trying to force everything through that lens of bubbly candyfloss lol
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    Imogen, I'm pretty sure no one's saying to "repress negative thoughts" or "donning masks of happiness" or "trying to force everything through a lens of bubbly happiness". That sounds more like someone on heavy narcotics. These are obviously unhealthy extremes. I've never met, read about or seen anyone who's ever really done that anyway and I'm pretty sure that's not what we're talking about here. Crazy insane mentally disturbed behaviour (as you've eluded to above) is one thing; deciding to take a "sunnier" approach to life is quite another.

    To give negative emotions more attention than they deserve takes up the same time as it does to take a lighter approach and to think and hope for a positive outcome or trying to think of positive ways to handle a task or travel down the road. Negative and positive thoughts just happen and we can entertain and dwell on any which we choose.

    The overall message of positive thinking is that it's a better (more productive and generally more pleasant) choice than negative thinking if you're trying to achieve a specific result and I think that's generally accepted as being true and a productive way of thinking. Considering the negatives is one thing but showering shite on positive emotions and thoughts as worthless (and even harmful) and encouraging negative thoughts and thinking are (in my view) the signs of a very disturbed person (the author - not you).
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    • Profile picture of the author imogenhobbs
      Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post

      Imogen, I'm pretty sure no one's saying to "repress negative thoughts" or "donning masks of happiness" or "trying to force everything through a lens of bubbly happiness". That sounds more like someone on heavy narcotics. These are obviously unhealthy extremes. I've never met, read about or seen anyone who's ever really done that anyway and I'm pretty sure that's not what we're talking about here. Crazy insane mentally disturbed behaviour (as you've eluded to above) is one thing; deciding to take a "sunnier" approach to life is quite another.
      Maybe I wasn't clear, never meant to disagree. Good positive thinking is what I'd consider "sublimation" or "intellectualization", which I said was a far healthier way than rejecting the bad things they don't want to hear.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    I accept that. It's not that anyone's being told to reject the bad things they don't want to hear either - at least I've never been told to do that (and I've read a LOT of these types of books). The general message that I think runs as a common thread through all the PMA books is that if one focuses on the negative too much it will affect the way you act and think in a negative way and you can see billions of examples of that all around us. It "grows" like a mould and gets in everything and worst of all supports the next negative thought or external suggestion compounding the problem. I hear my negative thoughts and (if I'm on my game at that moment) I'll just dismiss it as "loser talk/thinking".

    It's a subtle battle with profound and real results in both directions. Focusing on allowing the negative thoughts to become dominant will lead to bad shit going down or progress never being made. The opposite is also true. You don't have to be godly or the devilish to suffer. Expectations are very powerful and are formed by each of us (mostly voluntarily) so if we all have a choice then thinking, being and acting positive (even mildly) will always produce better results than doing the opposite. For him to suggest otherwise and that "we're fooling ourselves" flies in the face of reality.

    Perhaps he has a valid point in there somewhere...but I can't find it. To me his suggestions are absurd and pitiful.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    I am much less focused on the positive thinking or negative thinking aspects any more .. same with so called good and bad emotions .

    as i have been moving from a dualistic way of thinking and perception ..to a third point of perspective . a much less judgmental point .

    so initially the reaction to anything is to judge it as good or bad right now..then there is the shift in perspective to the longer term way things play out.

    then there is what your dominant thoughts are when you sit down and have time to think ..
    and what actually causes you to take action .

    you can be a positive thinking or negative thinking machine ..and get stuck in either zone that you never really do anything good or bad you just get stuck thinking about it.. in either state you become impulse driven to act ..and many times it is badly timed and counter productive .

    I have rapid cycling bi polar disorder .. and i didn't make to many long term costly choices ..when i was on the negative side of things as i had a large number of coping stratagies to help me climb out ..it was when i went manic positive that i'd do something to get me in a tonne on debt or something ..

    so now that i have that under contro.. because of the environment shift i have made in the last few months ..

    Personally i can't positive think my way out of seasonally effected disorder ..

    does the method of thinking you Employ lead you to take actions or make choices that have a positive effect on your well being .

    Or Is the method of thinking you are Using just a coping method to get through every day and not really do anything about problems you have .
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  • Profile picture of the author Avocado Plugins
    I would say it can be dangerous only when being narrow-minded with it. Here is what I mean - I had few friends who dropped out of college and wanted to start their own business and as much as I felt that their choice was wrong I supported them anyways.

    They didn't plan it out well and what they had was motivation and determination but with poor planning it's a disaster.

    I think that this book is a good catalyst for taking action - however one must have good plan BEFORE deciding to take action. Taking action blindly thinking that just because you are positive everything will work out is delusional.

    So again and again I would say be careful of the information you read and always try to look at the big picture.

    Also read contradicting things because it helps you balance out the information instead of just buying into JUST one philosophy.
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  • Profile picture of the author RVS3
    False: You get what you focus on. Ask any success in any area
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Originally Posted by RVS3 View Post

      False: You get what you focus on. Ask any success in any area
      The secret to life, is breath. With it, you live. Without it, you die.

      Love the "clickbait" post, and since, this is what this is...

      We can all look back...we see the INTERSECTIONS of our life.

      But, it is rare, to be so tuned in to the now, as to know when we are at an intersection, and to be AWARE of who is there with us.

      Unlike the yellow brick road, as the scarecrow pointed out, any choice will take you to OZ...but if you're going to EZ, then ... travel FAIL.

      Fewer still look ahead and see the many intersections, the detours, the dead ends and the worst of all, the time consuming life sucking people who seem like good travel companions until they turn into John Goodman in OH BROTHER WHERE ART THOU.

      Think And Reach Profits, no, wait, that is something I wrote...I meant Think And Reach Par...

      no, drat, that too is something I wrote.

      THINK AND GROW RICH has more useful tools to use than almost anything else written...which ones you choose, which ones you disregard, it is your choice.

      45 years of quizzing, questioning and making queries of the rich, successful and fulfilled have led me to believe, there is gold in TAGR, or there is a bunch of worthless tin.

      But then, try telling the scarecrow how worthless tin is when the wicked witch threw a fireball at him.

      Like much of our journey, we often find what we are looking for.

      Seems the OP carries around a lot of harm in his baggage.

      gjabiz

      PS, Oh yea, ramble by intent, with a few minutes to kill, picked an awesomely lame thread to do so.
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    • Profile picture of the author heavysm
      Originally Posted by RVS3 View Post

      False: You get what you focus on. Ask any success in any area
      YES! Which people don't really understand because that includes the negative as well as the positive.

      Very few people are willing to readily admit that they attracted anything negative into their lives. But ask them what worries them and they give you the biggest laundry list.

      If you "don't" want something you still attract it. The energy put forth through attention to an idea gives it power. We live in a universe of inclusion so even those things we try to avoid like the plague tend to be pulled to us.
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by heavysm View Post

        YES! Which people don't really understand because that includes the negative as well as the positive.

        Very few people are willing to readily admit that they attracted anything negative into their lives. But ask them what worries them and they give you the biggest laundry list.

        If you "don't" want something you still attract it. The energy put forth through attention to an idea gives it power.
        Unfortunately, that is true. You can indeed attract negative things especially by worrying and fearing something.

        "The thing that I have feared most has come upon me"

        Obviously if you are fearing something, it occupies your mind and thoughts. That is why it is so important to counter every negative though with positive ones.

        Originally Posted by heavysm View Post

        We live in a universe of inclusion so even those things we try to avoid like the plague tend to be pulled to us.
        Not if we don't give power to them with our negative thoughts and fears.

        I know that it is said quite often, but it is important so I have to say it again.

        Fear is nothing but False Evidence Appearing Real, in other words if you perceive it to be real it is. Your perception is your reality.

        However, Faith is the opposite of Fear. Faith is positive, fear is negative. It's up to us to control our thoughts and thereby give power to the positive rather than the negative.


        Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author heavysm
          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post


          Not if we don't give power to them with our negative thoughts and fears.

          I know that it is said quite often, but it is important so I have to say it again.

          Fear is nothing but False Evidence Appearing Real, in other words if you perceive it to be real it is. Your perception is your reality.

          However, Faith is the opposite of Fear. Faith is positive, fear is negative. It's up to us to control our thoughts and thereby give power to the positive rather than the negative.
          I must add that I agree with you, it was just implicit within my reply rather than directly stated.

          This is why we must think of our thoughts in positive terms, which is not to say that we have to be happy all the time with constant euphoria (which some people think and misunderstand), we simply have to concentrate on the positive benefit of the thing/goal we are aiming at.

          If we concentrate on doing well on a test but attempt to do so by concentrating on "not failing" or "I don't want a B or C" those things are unintentionally pulled toward us. That's the illusion and it's misunderstanding that causes us to attract it.

          We've said the same thing, just in different words...I think lol
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  • Profile picture of the author 11811
    I love Osho. He has contributed a lot of wisdom to the world. Love his book The Buddha Said.

    But I think he has it wrong here.

    This is basically the most common argument against positive thinking. That it's like trying to put a band aid over something that never really heals inside. That it's ignoring the negative, or pretending like the negative side isn't there.

    No. This is a misunderstanding of the real power of positive thinking.

    Positive thinking is for re-programming the human brain. It's for conditioning the mind to see things in more favorable light that then gets you to take the actions you need to take. For example, believing in yourself. If you don't have belief in yourself or if you have low self esteem or if you do not see yourself capable of achieving something, that is where positive thinking can and does help. Just a simple affirmation "I am worthy of living a happy life" can be an immensely powerful thing to say to yourself, especially if you need to overcome early childhood programming in which you learned the opposite.

    This is one problem I have with many "gurus"... at some point they have an answer for everything instead of having an open mind to different possibilities. I think they feel a need to always have all the answers. Otherwise they might lose their status as a guru. Not meaning to slight Osho's contributions overall. He really does have a ton of insights to offer. But on this topic I disagree.
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  • Profile picture of the author devinesoul186
    Originally Posted by yesboss View Post

    Positive Thinking: Philosophy for Phonies

    "The technique of positive thinking is not a technique that transforms you. It is simply repressing the negative aspects of your personality. It is a method of choice. It cannot help awareness; it goes against awareness. Awareness is always choiceless."

    "Positive thinking simply means forcing the negative into the unconscious and conditioning the conscious mind with positive thoughts. But the trouble is that the unconscious is far more powerful, nine times more powerful, than the conscious mind. So once a thing becomes unconscious, it becomes nine times more powerful than it was before. It may not show in the old fashion, but it will find new ways of expression."

    What do you think?
    Unconscious or so called the Subconscious mind is the store house of all our memories, thoughts, actions and whatever happens to us. All those stored memories become like seeds inside it. Whenever we come in to contact with something that relates with some kind of stored seed (memory) that seed starts to sprout and comes out in our concious mind as a remembrance and thus affects our behaviour. Enthusiasm, Motivation, Positive and Negative are also seeds inside of subconscious and when we think or read something positive, seeds of positivity start to sprout and give us positive thinking, power and encouragement in life.

    May be your thoughts about positive as negative have instilled inside your subconscious mind. Try to instil truth inside you. I would recommend you to read "Thich Nhat Hanh's" "Understanding Our Mind".
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  • Profile picture of the author thomas24
    I also agree with you that Think and Grow Rich is dangerous & harmful!
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      I see nothing wrong with Think And Grow Rich at all. It holds many universal truths in it. Napoleon Hill merely guides you on how to understand and act upon those universal truths with the aim of success in the world of finance.

      How is that dangerous?

      I feel sorry for those of you that think it is dangerous and let me tell you why. The mind is the seat of all that we think and therefore, all that we do.

      If we think positively, we act positively, if we focus on the positive we see the positive.

      The opposite is also true. If we focus on the dangers of thinking positive, we are thinking negatively.

      There have been times when negative thoughts have assaulted my mind like someone opened a flood gate. I pushed them back, recognized them as false and continued on in countering each negative thought with the corresponding opposite thought. (a positive one)

      Those negative thoughts fled, gone, abolished. Those negative thoughts DID NOT take over my subconscious mind and show up anywhere else. I don't even have nightmares.

      It just seems to me that those who think positive thoughts and energy is dangerous, and speak against TAGR are just excusing their choice of laziness in not wanting to reign in and take control of their own willpower. It is at times difficult to reign in negativity but in can be done and you can recondition the way you think, period.

      There really is a silver lining to every dark cloud, you just have to be willing to find it and focus on it.

      It really comes down to if you want to or not. Plain and simple!!


      Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author Pilotben
    How on earth can Think And Grow Rich be dangerous?? I agree with Terra.

    Yes the subconscious mind is stubborn, it only lets you act on what you believe, and why do you believe certain things about yourself? You thought your own subconscious mind to believe it yourself.

    How?

    Thinking.

    If you think about failing in something enough, you will not even bother to go on and take action will you? You will stop six inches from your Gold.

    On the other hand, if you start thinking about being successful you start to teach your mind to act that way. What happens next? You start having a positive attitude, a positive way of thinking, a positive way of taking action and following your plan. And then what happens? You start being successful, and it all started with a thought. The good and the bad. That is how I see it.

    So I can not for the life of me understand how anything in Think And Grow Rich be dangerous? Maybe if you are scared of success it will be dangerous, and you can't hide behind all your excuses anymore.

    My 2 cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author jkgultimate
    That website or blog post is horse crap. Did they even read the book??

    "Think and grow rich… you don’t have to do anything, you only have to think in absolutely positive terms and riches will start flowing towards you. If they don’t come, that simply means that you have not been thinking absolutely positively."

    Where in the book it says just to think positive and things will flow to you. I think they got their books mixed up. That is what "The Secret" is more about.

    Think and Grow rich as strategies on how to plan and take action on your desires.
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  • Profile picture of the author DWaters
    Positive thinking simply means forcing the negative into the unconscious
    The statement above is incorrect and therefore the entire premise is incorrect. Positive thinking does not necessarily insert negative thinking into the sub-consious. Techniques such as visualization and hypnosis can be used to insert positive thoughts in the sub-conscious. The term unconscious is also the incorrect term.
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  • Profile picture of the author mpluto
    Here is a trick: the information in it may be transformative to the MIND.

    To succeed, you need to take REPETITIVE SUCCESS-PRODUCING ACTION.

    Many people, including me in the past, thought that JUST THINK better, more optimistic, more positive - and you are golden.

    No.

    You must THINK AND FEEL rich, and take RIGHT ACTION, turning that right action into a habit of success.

    Then, you need to know WHY you will succeed (a very good logical reason associated with physical realm rather, than mental. Once you have that, you start thinking rich automatically. Not vise-versa).

    Did you know that over 90% of prosperity teachers are broke or get broke as soon as they stop preaching their teachings? Napoleon Hill became broke.

    And if you would only know how many of them cross-marketed and cross-positioned each other. You would probably feel nauseous about their so beloved materials if you know what happens in reality.

    Did you know that what "legends of prosperity" teach works for only 2% of people, and they know it, and still teach it without mentioning it in marketing materials?

    A lot of these things can put you into thinking hell, you may not be able to make decisions clearly, may procrastinate and have ADD/OCD-like mentality. And you may start thinking that you just need a "better", more expensive product. Sure enough, they got one!

    How do I know it? First of all, I've been there. Second - I coach people and know people who have names in this field.

    Third, I have a system that makes any person a "globally accepted expert". Take anyone, tell what they want to be expert in and soon - they would be recognized as such, even if they don't know anything on that subject. Guess where I got it?

    Put it this way: if it helps you with your goals, use it. If it doesn't - don't.

    I just want to make this clear: I'm not badmouthing here, I'm being realistic based on too many experiences of too many people, knowing what happens behind the scenes - just weeding off illusions and deceptions.

    So, yeah, this is what I think...
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    Wow! I'd love to see the studies that produced those incredible statistics. Do you have any links to those studies? They don't sound true to me and don't reflect my experience at all but if they are the facts I'll be surprised but (proof is proof and) it's difficult to argue with a proper scientific (peer reviewed) study and statistics. Can't wait to read them. Post some links.
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  • Profile picture of the author rbates
    Osho also mentions doubt. That doubt is negative.
    Everyone has doubts when things do not work the way
    they think that they should.

    I don't think that the ideal of positive thinking is about
    not having doubt, or not having any negative feelings.
    Positive thinking is about overcoming the negative
    things that come up in a person's life.

    This guy (Osho) says that thinking positive is only
    to deceive one's self. I hastily disagree. I doubt that
    anyone is deceived by their failures, and negative
    emotions. Everyone has them. It is the dwelling
    on the negative that is harmful. So Mr. Osho, why not
    try focusing on the brighter side of things?

    Having an up-beat outlook on life has been shown to
    increase a person's life span (Oh No, Mr. Bill, I will find the
    research if you would like I doubt that Osho has any
    research to back up his numbers.

    From the Mayo Clinic:
    "The health benefits of positive thinking

    Researchers continue to explore the effects of positive thinking
    and optimism on health. Health benefits that positive thinking
    may provide include:

    Increased life span
    Lower rates of depression
    Lower levels of distress
    Greater resistance to the common cold
    Better psychological and physical well-being
    Reduced risk of death from cardiovascular disease
    Better coping skills during hardships and times of stress"


    I think I've said enough. I really don't think that having
    a positive outlook on things is dangerous (or harmful).
    It would only be harmful if you continued to do the same
    things, and found the results to be the same, but then
    we know what that is the definition of now, don't we?
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  • Profile picture of the author Young Financier
    Okay, the quoted words are retarded. The point of Think and Grow Rich is to practice thinking correctly until it becomes habitual. Anything that you repeatedly do becomes who you are. Just because a large part of people are unable to do this successfully doesn't mean that Think and Grow Rich is harmful, it simply means that it isn't an easy thing to do. THAT is why I believe people attack TAGR, because the techniques require hard work and discipline...which they aren't willing to put forth to achieve their desired results. They don't do what it takes to stay focused on their goals and get nothing as a result, therefore TAGR must be a scam and/or harmful....GTFOH.
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  • Profile picture of the author mariamcm
    Originally Posted by yesboss View Post

    Positive Thinking: Philosophy for Phonies

    "The technique of positive thinking is not a technique that transforms you. It is simply repressing the negative aspects of your personality. It is a method of choice. It cannot help awareness; it goes against awareness. Awareness is always choiceless."

    "Positive thinking simply means forcing the negative into the unconscious and conditioning the conscious mind with positive thoughts. But the trouble is that the unconscious is far more powerful, nine times more powerful, than the conscious mind. So once a thing becomes unconscious, it becomes nine times more powerful than it was before. It may not show in the old fashion, but it will find new ways of expression."

    What do you think?
    Hi Yesboss, positive thinking in and of itself won't do very much if your underlying belief structure isn't changed. Most of us have a lot of self-limiting beliefs buried in our subconscious that we are not even aware of, and those deep seated beliefs are indeed very powerful, and will over-ride any amount of positive thinking. I'm not sure where you got the 'nine times more powerful' from as I've never come across that. My understanding is that your subconscious is a hundred times more powerful and it's why using 'willpower' alone can be such an uphill battle - because when you use willpower, you are fighting your subconscious and 9 times out of 10, it wins. Clearing your self-limiting beliefs, I believe, is the best way to start.
    Maria
    www.atuneu.com
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    Maria McMahon
    Founder, www.atunue.com

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  • Profile picture of the author Chris30K
    Reading Think & Grow Rich is awesome, but reading is not enough, you have to apply the steps.

    You'll know if you've fully applied the steps because you'll lose a lot of friends, gain brand new ones, look like a psychotic mad-man during the process and end up looking like a genius.

    Literally, everything you touch will turn into money - and it will all be subconscious. You will be able to look at a tree and learn a new business strategy. You don't even have to try anymore, it's like second nature. I don't even care about my credit score anymore, wtf? Being debt free is the place to be.

    The book is wonderful, it's the best thing I've ever came across other than the Holy Bible itself.
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    Chic Fil A > McDonald's

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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Ray
    I always knew that Think & Grow Rich is one of the most destructive and dangerous books around along with everything Napoleon Hill wrote. I am delighted that finally, others are realizing it too, although not many.

    However, I am not sure if Osho's reasoning is the right one.

    In any case, here is how this works: this book is full of very spiritual, positive, constructive, good stuff! The reader naturally response to this content, because it's the TRUTH. Then, the book twists the truth just enough to destroy it.

    This is how "evil" works: it seizes all that is true and good and neutralizing it by cleverly inserting lies in it! Then, good is destroyed because the truth is corrupted.

    That's the story of Think & Grow Rich!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    Tell us Joe, how did he do that? You say "that's the story of Think and Grow Rich" but you mention no story or reasoning to help us understand how you came to such a bizarre conclusion. How do you think "evil" was injected? What does that mean? How is the truth "twisted" in this book? What do you mean by that? How do you figure that this is "one of the most destructive books ever written"? Let us hear your logic.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Ray
      Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post

      Tell us Joe, how did he do that? How was "evil" injected into his book? What do you mean by that?
      To explain what I wrote would take many pages of writing, perhaps I'd have to write a whole book which I am definitely not prepared to do. In any case, it would be outside of the scope of this post.

      However, please note that your questions are wrong!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    How can my questions be "wrong" Joe? I'm asking you to elaborate on your view. If you "can't" - that's fine.
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  • Profile picture of the author realwinner2
    I love Napoleon Hill's teachings. Osho on the other hand is the re-invented name for an unscrupulous person who was once known as Rajneesh and was caught up in an ugly scandal in the 1980's in Oregon. Maybe you remember hearing about his cult and all of his Rolls Royces? Sexual mis-use of power going on there as well. Bagwan Rajneesh was a narcissistic and cruel manipulator of people capable of doing unbelievable things. When he was kicked out of the US he was also not allowed into many other countries either. See more here Rajneesh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . Napoleon Hill was a great teacher. Osho/Rajneesh is not.

    Let me see....Napoleon Hill or Osho? It's a no-brainer. Do your research people. And listen to your gut. Your inner guidance is there for a reason. I applaud all of you who knew that instinctively on this thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    No way! lol, we know him down here as "tough titties" because that's what one of his sidekicks said to an interviewer once when asked something controversial - I think maybe followed by a hand being raised to the camera lens.

    Classic.
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