Why are some people bad?

by John Durham 29 replies
Bad people are relative to the fundamental building blocks your community is built upon.

For instance:

If your foundation is built upon, really teaching people to market for free... and someone comes in misleading them with bad info that will cause them to fail, and charges for it.

Then that person is "Bad".

However if your community's fundamental working principle is to "act like you wanna help people by giving them a little useless free info to lead them into buying something..."

Then a guy who "really wants to help people and give 'em reliable free info, with no catches..." is Bad.

Wait! Why is it that? How could that be bad?

I don't know. Kinda depends on what your community is built upon.

What do you think?
#mind warriors #bad #people
Avatar of Unregistered
  • Profile picture of the author ExRat
    Hi,

    Then a guy who "really wants to help people and give 'em free info is "Bad"
    I know that this community is built upon marketing. To run a sustainable business, you need to show a profit. Therefore to help more people with good information, you need to make a profit.

    Perhaps this is why the person in your above example is bad, because anyone who tries to suggest to others that they will succeed in business purely by being altruistic and giving everything away is doing them a dis-service.

    At some point, you have to be paid for your time in order to continue to help others. We like to help people to succeed here, so in general it's accepted that at some point you have to be paid and that advice about this is helpful, whereas the opposite is not.
    Signature


    Roger Davis

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[923087].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

      Hi,

      I know that this community is built upon marketing. To run a sustainable business, you need to show a profit. Therefore to help more people with good information, you need to make a profit.

      Perhaps this is why the person in your above example is bad, because anyone who tries to suggest to others that they will succeed in business purely by being altruistic and giving everything away is doing them a dis-service.

      At some point, you have to be paid for your time in order to continue to help others. We like to help people to succeed here, so in general it's accepted that at some point you have to be paid and that advice about this is helpful, whereas the opposite is not.
      What's wrong with helping them for free and then being paid after they have gotten some success?

      Instead of being paid for mere teaching, you are then being paid as a person who is qualified enough to actually train people to get results?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[923160].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author havplenty
        Originally Posted by kadensnga View Post

        What's wrong with helping them for free and then being paid after they have gotten some success?

        Instead of being paid for mere teaching, you are then being paid as a person who is qualified enough to actually train people to get results?
        The difficulty with this approach is that it conditions the person you are helping to 'expect' FREE information. The reality is that some people have a propensity to seek out 'free things' whilst others do not. The ones that will make you the most money in my opinion, are the ones who like to spend.

        Good luck!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[923460].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author webmatic
        Well if you are teaching or helping someone for free and then ask for some money out of their income then that's more then ok but if the same info/teachings are so common that he can learn it without even paying a single penny after wards then i think so it's bad. So try to give some genuine and unique teachings and for that you can surely ask for a small amount after their success.
        Thanks
        Webmatic
        Originally Posted by kadensnga View Post

        What's wrong with helping them for free and then being paid after they have gotten some success?

        Instead of being paid for mere teaching, you are then being paid as a person who is qualified enough to actually train people to get results?
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[923465].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by kadensnga View Post

    Bad people are relative to the fundamental building blocks your community is built upon.
    Further reading: Clotaire Rapaille, The Culture Code.
    Signature
    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[923384].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      What's wrong with helping them for free and then being paid after they have gotten some success?
      There's nothing wrong with YOU doing that if you can afford it. The hours you spend helping will be hours you don't work on your business. Next time you see someone posting here wanting a mentor in exchange for a percent of future profits - volunteer.

      I predict it will be a mind-opening experience for you...and a low paying one at that.

      kay
      Signature

      Saving one dog may not change the world - but forever changes the world of one dog.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[923476].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TheGodfather
    This is simple to answer:

    If i gave you $20 for doing nothing, then you'd spend them on anything since you didn't do nothing to earn them, thus you don't respect them...

    But if i told you to carry a bunch of rocks for those $20 and you did that then you'd respect the $20 more then if I just gave it to you...


    It's a thing based on the feeling of investment... If you Invest in something then you're gonna make sure that you at least follow the instructions, to EARN back the investment and perhaps even profit from it...

    But if you get the same thing for free you don't respect it as much and you call the guy names etc...

    It's about teaching people respect, that is why i always charge money for tarot readings, not because i want money from them (well i do but that is beside the point) my main reason, for charging them, is to teach them to respect my knowledge and to respect the art of tarot. Not many people respect it, but those who do WILL pay for it...

    Hope this helps...
    Signature

    TheGodfather

    Perception is reality

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[923632].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Someone trained me to sell... in my lifetime I have made a career several times out of the value of that persons teachings, and I also made him a ton of money.

      I have made money for almost everyone who has ever given me an opportunity to learn from them...

      They "paid" me to learn, and I was good ground for their sowing.

      Maybe I'm just idealistic but I think others are also out there like that.

      All advice given by more experienced marketers is worth good consideration. Perhaps I should find a balance.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[923894].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Harry Behrens
    I may be way off base here - But I don't think there's anything wrong with teaching people for free and then using those results as a catapult for a more formal, paid teaching, coaching or product.

    As an example, my parents' business is a Dojo, a school of karate. 9 years ago they gave classes in a church basement. For free. As their students advanced and went on to participate and win in tournaments the reputation of the classes increased until they had people asking them what they charged for lessons. So they took on more students and started charging for those new students. They later rented and moved to a small tatami of their own. And so they went.

    Today they have over 300 students from all over Caracas, they give classes out of the largest and best-looking tatami out of any other dojo, and they are known as one of the top schools for Karate in the Eastern Caracas area.

    But they started out with free classes. In a basement.

    Personally, back when I started off doing "offline", making websites for people, the first three websites I made were completely free (with the understanding with the clients that they would not let it be known that they had been free). Those three websites got me enough paid referrals and clients to last me for years and once it was rolling I could have kept going indefinitely, had I not decided to stop that particular business.

    So, in my opinion, the only way giving free value away can be made to be a "bad" thing is if you are making the hidden assumption that you will give value away and only ever give value away forever, never moving on to something else.

    But if you have a good plan to seize and leverage the results of that free value onto something greater in the future, it can not only be a good thing... it can actually be the best thing you ever do. IMO.
    Signature

    - Harry Behrens

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[924108].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Kadensnga,

      Perhaps I didn't understand your question? It was a little vague.

      If you could elaborate on the main part a bit more, or ideally give an example?

      However if your community's fundamental working principle is to "act like you wanna help people by giving them a little free info to lead them into buying something..."

      Then a guy who "really wants to help people and give 'em reliable free info, with no catches is Bad"

      Wait! Why is it that? How could that be bad?

      I don't know. Kinda depends on what your community is built upon.
      Signature


      Roger Davis

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[924259].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author imcmillionaire
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[928155].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Global Greg
      Life = Perception.

      Anything can be good or bad, it is just
      how YOU perceive that.

      Giving away free info is great ... but there
      is no such thing as free.

      You may be doing it for money or may be doing
      it for confidence or karma or SOMETHING.

      Everything has a motive in which drives action.

      Otherwise, we would lay on the floor like a newborn
      all day because we only walk so we can get closer to
      our parents. That is a motive!

      So just follow your heart and you cannot go wrong
      but just remember that life is only perception so nobody
      is right or wrong and there is no good or bad - it just is
      what it is.

      So if you enjoy free information - that is great ... if you
      enjoy information for money and to help others - that is
      great!

      Spread love and you will never be poor!

      Poor is just a perception of a situation!
      Signature

      "There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs"

      Company T shirts, Polos, Stickers, Banners!

      Gain some Wealthy Knowledge - It's a movement!

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[928586].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Global Greg View Post

        Life = Perception.

        Anything can be good or bad, it is just
        how YOU perceive that.

        Giving away free info is great ... but there
        is no such thing as free.

        You may be doing it for money or may be doing
        it for confidence or karma or SOMETHING.

        Everything has a motive in which drives action.

        Otherwise, we would lay on the floor like a newborn
        all day because we only walk so we can get closer to
        our parents. That is a motive!

        So just follow your heart and you cannot go wrong
        but just remember that life is only perception so nobody
        is right or wrong and there is no good or bad - it just is `

        My vote for best answer.
        what it is.

        So if you enjoy free information - that is great ... if you
        enjoy information for money and to help others - that is
        great!

        Spread love and you will never be poor!

        Poor is just a perception of a situation!
        My vote for best answer.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[940104].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author clubvikram
    Banned
    I agree with the premise that knowledge should not be shared for free.since it adds value then it is invaluable hence not free.I have learned from my own personal experience i tried to help some people by teaching them for free but they didn't value it and were erratic in attending classes.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[929075].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Meanna Blog
    How do you make a judgment on what is good or bad? If you go back 100 years the answer would be very different to today.

    We are more tolerant, but is that really a good thing?

    What will our tolerance be like in the next 100 years? Maybe murder will be ok?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[940194].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      [DELETED]
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[953483].message }}
      • i think people are not bad the work what they do is bad
        because its the only attitude of people through which we can judge them.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[967472].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Robert T Jillie
          Some of the most successful marketers do offer help for free because they know that in the long run that free assistance builds trust.
          Signature
          Never Give Up, Be Confident In What You Do.

          There may be tough times, but the difficulties which you face
          will make you more determined to achieve your objectives
          and to win against all the odds.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[968659].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author kanenala
            I think that if you show the same kind of kindness you would like to recieve you will get a lot more in life, free or not free, no one can be bad for giving.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[968959].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by kanenala View Post

              I think that if you show the same kind of kindness you would like to recieve you will get a lot more in life, free or not free, no one can be bad for giving.
              Bad it seems is relative to the intention of the observer.

              If you are a farmer in a drought, then a rain storm is a good, but if you are roofer it is bad.

              If you are an oil tycoon, then free fuel is bad, but if you are an end consumer it's good.

              In "The Prophet" Kahlil Gibron, says that a man seeking gain is not bad, he is liken a root clinging to the earth and sucking at her breasts..." Seeking gain is natural and beautiful, as is giving without seeking gain.

              It's not so much a "moral" issue as a "vantage point" issue.

              Your "personal agenda" in the situation is the true determining factor of whether something is good or bad.

              The purpose of "this" post is not to determine an "individual's" position, but rather a "community's" position

              Why?

              Because it's important to know this, in order to function harmoniously within that community.

              When I ask this question, what I hear the majority saying is:

              "There's no profit in helping people for free".

              That almost presupposes, by majority rule, that the main point of offering people help is to "profit".

              I have concluded, judging by the results of this thread, that "pro bono" training is diametrically opposed to the overall intention of the community, but doesn't HAVE to be.

              The answers here add one more brick in the wall for me.

              I now can see that:

              In order to function most harmoniously within this community, in the capacity of offering free training to it's newbie members, one could place links to fellow community members websites within your helpful free content, and completely "inadvertently" make a profit, while simultaneously not compromising the benevolence of your offer, and, in the end, it all works together synergistically for the greater good of everyone involved.

              That is ultimately the system that this community is built upon.

              That is my conclusion.

              You are right b-kay, this was "mind opening" in a tremendously powerful way.

              .
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[980720].message }}
              • People are not born bad, they enter the world pure, they become bad from the messages and experiences they receive as children, it is the way they are nurtured. They were victims themselves once but unfortunatley go on to perbetrate onto others and commit aweful crimes against others
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[981665].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Mavericks
            Originally Posted by Robert T Jillie View Post

            Some of the most successful marketers do offer help for free because they know that in the long run that free assistance builds trust.
            Yes, they can build trust by giving free things, but at the end they still expect to make profit from that trust. Doesn't they?

            I just look at that from different point of view. I am very successful offline business man and Internet marketer. I am aware that you can't start any serious business without investing some money in it. If someone offer me something for free I'll be suspicious.

            Why the heck will someone gives me something for free if he or she doens't know me?
            Signature
            "Easily Uncover TONs Of Profitable Long-Tail Keywords With Little To No Competition!!...
            http://www.keyword-researchpro.com
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[969060].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bobmcalister
    I like the answer with the love factor in it. seems to work better than any other method for me anyway. Giving is sowing . You cant outrun that. IMO
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[951253].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by bobmcalister View Post

      I like the answer with the love factor in it. seems to work better than any other method for me anyway. Giving is sowing . You cant outrun that. IMO
      You cant out give God or the Universe. People who don't believe in sowing and reaping aren't paying much attention to nature or observing the truth in their life on a very deep level...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[953479].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author pevans13
    The first point that i will make is one commonly overlooked by many.

    'Bad' is only a matter of perspective. What one belives to be right and true, another may believe is wrong and bad.

    The second point that i will make is simple.

    Yin-Yang. Balance.

    If there was no bad, then it would become impossible for good to exist.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[993177].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author annbytes
    some people are bad because they tend to loose contact with their own heart and so they loose interest in doing good.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1023842].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author betesh
    because there's a lot of good people around.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1026241].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author vossman
      Bad is such a funny word isn't it? Depending on your culture or religion, certain actions/words/events/etc will be perceived as a different value. In the end, who has the right to judge anything? Whenever something 'bad' happens, it triggers a chain of events that may wind up to something better then the original path. We can never know where our choices, or the choices of others, will lead us. This doesn't mean you should have no morals or values, it means you shouldn't judge anyone, ever. And give yourself a break once and a while, will you?

      Here's a great parable to expand on my point.

      There once was a farmer, an older gentlemen, who lived on the countryside with his family growing crops and selling them locally. The community was small and everyone knew everyone, and everything that happened in the area. It was that time of year again for the crops to be harvested and the farmer had the best harvest in town, and probably the best harvest in his life.

      Upon news of the farmer's fortune, the folk of the town paid him a visit to congratulate him and tell him how great his fortune was. The farmer thanked everyone for their kindness, but replied with "Is this good luck or bad luck? Who knows?"

      The following week, the farmer's barn caught on fire. He lost a good deal of the crop and his prize horse escaped and ran away. Once again, the towns peoples came by, this time to express their sorrow for his misfortune. The farmer thanked everyone for their kindness, but once again replied "Is this good luck of bad luck? Who knows?"

      Days later the farmers horse returned with a beautiful mare, the farmer now had his prize horse back as well as a young, strong mare. The towns people came by, congratulated him on the good fortune, but still the farmer remained cool as a cucumber, giving them the same consistent reply.

      One day the farmer's son was climbing a tree and he fell out of it and broke his leg. Everyone came by in sympathy, but the farmer knew that life was just flowing as it should be. His son would be ok and different events would come to pass. What would it all lead to? Who knows. The farmer wasn't concerned. Later that week, the army came by to draft the son. They could not take him because of his leg. Good luck or bad luck? WHO KNOWS!

      My advice, don't judge anyone as bad. You don't know if they are here for a purpose or not. You don't know where they come from, what their life has been like, or who they really are. If you have bad feelings about a person, then do your best to avoid them. Keeping someone's conceivably bad actions in your mind and focusing on how bad that person might be, is only sinking yourself to a lower level of expreience. Isn't there so much beauty all around you to admire instead? What about this computer? Do you think it's beautiful? The Internet? The sky? When was the last time you watched the clouds just to admire nature's beauty?

      Whatever you may believe, you can be sure that your personal judgements are never the final word.

      Vossman
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1030088].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author eienblue
    Maybe they just want to do revenge for the bad things they have received when they are child
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1032521].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author shatner
    Some people tend to be bad because they need attention, maybe their upbringing is not the same as yours and mine. They show their feelings as an act of rebellion that turns into rage and hate for others.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1033527].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author premiertimesol
    I think they are lack of attention so all they know is to be bad to other.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1071421].message }}
Avatar of Unregistered

Trending Topics