How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

oops : the title should read
How Do You Handle the Hosting Issues


Ideally, I want my clients' mobile sites to be hosted on my server. It justifies monthly fees, make ftp and updates a breeze, no one can play with the coding, etc

Yet I don't necessarily want to take the desktop site version away from their current host. No need to be greedy or for a battle with their current site and hosting providers.


I see two options but maybe you guys see more

#1 buy and use a .mobi domain

#2 create a m.domain.com for them on their host, but with a redirect to a subdomain on mine:
theirsite.mysite.com

I prefer option #2 personally as it's free advertising at the same time.


How do you guys handle that issue?

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

I think the second option is probably better. If you were to do this, then you wouldn't really even need for a subdomain of m.site to be setup. You could just provide them with the redirect code that goes to your mobile site.

The more work you ask a client to get done on their existing website by another webmaster - then the more difficult things become. I'd say just provide the client with the redirect code and tell them to get it put onto their existing website.

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

Couldn't you just aim the DNS for m.theirsite.com to your server?

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

I have a generic domain and then just add subdomain for each client Jay.

I am also trying the free mobile site model with $25 a month hosting paid 6 or 12 month blocks.

Plus also doing wordpress exclusive sites Iphone mobile simulator emulator

Quentin

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

Sounds like good advice. How much trouble do you find getting the existing sites' webmasters to insert the code?

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

Hey Jay,

I prefer option #2 by far. Hosting ourselves has at least 2 benefits, as you've mentioned:
1) keeps us in control of the content and design elements
2) extraneous ads & content are not an issue this way

I've been looking at CMS systems that can semi-automatically build WP based mobile sites for a few reasons (slightly off topic)... and some solutions that I've found could be very effective in a build to lease or build to sell model - as a "foot-in-door" method.

Build site in 5 minutes with CMS system, then once the prospect buys the site - you can build the 30 minute site and host it properly. I'm looking at the time saning potential here, from a sales perspective.

I do prefer option 2 - redirect their m.subdomain to their mobile site that I host.

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

We can do that? We'd still have to have the subdomain for them on our server, so a redirect is probably simpler


Simpler indeed. It's just that I wondered if m.domain.com was so common place now, so the "norm" so to speak, that we did need a redirect from that address. There's no "technical" need for it.

Indeed. But even placing a redirect code, which is certainly needed, implies that they will butt in somehow.

So you too are not bothering with the m.domain.com address?

I love this model. I'm charging more though: $37 or $57. First one is one update + hosting. Second one is up to 4 updates. I'm only charging monthly (no blocks) to give better conversions, and even having the 1st month at $1 for that reason. Of course, not every client will use the updates, yet it justifies higher fees than simply "hosting".

I use this price model only for the sales I'll close myself. My sales rep will still charge a setup fee - basically their full commission! I don't think most sales rep would want $10 a month starting in 30 days when they can get $200-300 right now.

I'm using your html method and Will's php ones. But I love the WP Coupon plugin sold here on the WF. It now works for mobile... but only on WP sites. Though I've suggested that there should be way to take the code of the created coupon and place it on any kind of site.

Why have you decided to test the WP mobile model? Your arguments against that route did convince me.

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

I am only now getting into the mobile website market - though I have been building and developing websites for 10 years now. During the time, I have had to deal with various webmasters who developed and host sites of some of our clients ( who come to us for various reasons - SEO, promotion etc ). I know from experience that trying to get a client to ask his webmaster to simply add a couple lines of code, or to change the title tags etc - is something that in theory should take one minutes work - yet it seems to drag out for weeks before anything is done.

Unfortunately, if cases like this, there is nothing more I can really do. This is why with mobile websites, my idea was to make things as easy as possible with regards to what the webmasters of clients sites need to do. This is why I think it is much easier to get them to simply insert the necessary redirection code onto the site, rather than ask them to setup a subdomain and to then forward this to me, etc.

@Jay Rhome - I love your idea of charging just $1 for the first months hosting. I am also looking to implement a monthly charge for some clients rather than an outright fee for a mobile site.

Can I ask what you guys do for sample mobile websites to show to potential clients ?? If you do not have any existing mobile clients, do you just make up a variety of "fake" sites to show various designs, or do you just go ahead and actually create real mobile websites for randomly picked businesses and use those ( as well as inform these people that you have made a mobile site for them, which you will provide for free for 12 months as you would like to use it for your portfolio ).

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

It can be a great ice breaker, but expect more cancellations. Maybe I will charge a "heavily discounted" price of $47 instead of $1, but still, that's chump change to begin.

"Fake" sites, aka "models" from your created designs are good enough. I wouldn't provide a site for free for portfolio reasons IMO.

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

Do these sites REALLY need to be updated on a monthly basis? I hope that you are at least targeting businesses where updating their site on a monthly basis is needed so you are not charging them $57 for just hosting.

Let's be real here. The whole point of this model is for YOU to make money on a monthly basis. So I hope you are at least delivering value for the money they are paying you and not preying on business owners by getting them to pay you a monthly fee when you are 99% sure they won't even update their site.

Let's face it, having them host it on their own (with the hosting they are already using) is probably the best bet for most local, small businesses. But it seems some people are trying to justify their "monthly maintenance" fees by coming up with "reasons" why a biz owner should pay them every month.

Not trying to accuse anyone of anything. Just trying to make some think before they charge people every month for something they may not even need.

/soapbox

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

I agree. I would never charge a client a flat fee for the site and then hosting on top of that IF they already have their own domain and hosting, which they will do. The only time I would ever charge a monthly hosting fee is if the client does NOT want to pay the lump sum upfront and would rather pay off the site in small monthly payments. In that instance they do not own the site so I would host it and charge them a monthly fee. It might only be for a set amount of time (12-18 months) whereby they then have the option to transfer the site elsewhere.

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

Well, in a way, sure I'm trying to create a residual income with this model, I won't deny that!

But, the few regular desktop sites I've sold in the past, there's ALWAYS been some upgrades/updates to do along the way, but not always monthly, sure. And I do plan to use a very low setup fee + monthly fee model.

There are tons of "regular sites" sales model designed like that. You get a lot less money per sale at first, but you make more sales, and the businesses obviously get the service at a lower entree price, and they can cancel at any time. I fail to see how it's "taking advantage" of a business.

And like any good model, you take care of these "subscribers" (clients) with unexpected bonuses, tips to maximize their mobile marketing, etc. They get ton of value out of this. Also, when you plan to hire sales reps, there has to be a standardized way to sell to different needs, or the sales reps are as lost in the maze of options as the prospects are.

Of course, again, the idea is to get residual income. But to get it, monthly value has to be provided. $37 a month is only $444 for a year. $888 for two years. Hardly a rip-off by any current standard! And again, they can cancel anytime.

It also insures they get good service, as otherwise they'd simply cancel. It's a protection for them as well. How many horror stories have we seen or experienced ourselves of paying for something then not hearing back ever again from the seller?

I'm currently doubting my $1 for the first 30 day + monthly fee model. I'm sure for sales to persons it's amazing, but for selling to businesses I might selling myself short with $1. I'll test different set up prices out.

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

Check in your settings at your name server and your host. I've seen it done before but have not done it personally. Wish I could walk you thru it but I can not.

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

Agreed. If they already have a site, chances are, they won't want to pony up more cash for another hosting fee elsewhere (I think you were the one who brought this idea to light in one of my threads here asking a similar questions about hosting). '

Needless to say, I have changed my approach to offer my mobile websites with a flat fee attached instead. However, I do plan to add in the fact that I will be available for updates, but will do it at a set hourly rate. This way, they are not wasting money on a monthly package they may never use, and can contact me when they need maintenance or updates done and can pay me for the actual work involved. Seems like a win-win to me.

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

I think this thread is THE point of interest for selling mobile website conversions and I am trying really hard to get to the bottom of it.

I have a question and I am a novice to website design and maintenance. My experience is in sales and marketing. I am not looking for a step by step of "how to do it" just a "yes it can be done" answer to the below example:

1. I have a monthly hosting service I use. I can create unlimited domains with that service
2. I build a moible website for a client. I host that website. The mobile version of that website is m.123456ddd.com

3. The clients main website is www.123456ddd.com. When someone does a search for 123456ddd.com on a smart phone, will my m site be the one they see WITHOUT anyone having to do anything inside the control panel of www.123456ddd.com?

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

Another thing comes to mind. If Google favors companies with mobile versions of their site, how will they be able to find it if we host the mobile version, while the desktop is on another host? Simply from the redirect code?

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

"WITHOUT anyone having to do anything inside the control panel of www.123456ddd.com?" Don't we all wish! Nope, you've got to have a script installed at the original site that will detect the mobile device - so the other webmaster will be involved to get this done unless you can get the client to give you ftp access to the site - certainly would be faster that way!

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

I had a member contact me the other day with a weird problem. He had created and installed a mobile site for his customer and had installed the standard screen width redirect code.

About a week later his client noticed when searching for his business in Google, the description listed of his website was content taken from his mobile site. It turns out, after inspection, their main website did NOT have any meta description tags. Usually if this happens Google will just use some content from the page to come up with that description. In this case they had actually taken content from the mobile site. This just goes to show that the Google spiders are easily finding these mobile sites.

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

So you're saying that even if we host the mobile site on another server, it will still be detected easily by Google? Great!

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

They would be silly not to when you think about it. The .mobi domain extensions were created for the sole purpose of hosting mobile websites. Therefor a lot of people are going to use these .mobi domains to host the mobile version of their website which means the standard and mobile versions are not on the same domain.

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

I host and then have client make a ".m" subdomain and point to my server. And I don't mess with the desktop version or the webmaster.

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

So you like option #2 :)

I do wonder now if would even bother with the m.domain, as I could point right away to theirdomain.mydomain.com

Though I wonder if an unscrupulous third party could easily find all the subdomains on my domain, thus all my clients...

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

Option 1. Sell conversion, gain access to control panel,end of story
Option 2. Sell conversion, do not gain access to control panel, send files and instructions on how to install files and redirect script to business owner and they deal with it after that, end of story
Option 3. Sell conversion, just have re-drect script installed and host m.domain.com on our server and get conversion and hosting fees...on-going story

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

Your solution sounds the simplest, which is great. Nevertheless the clients' webmaster has to make the subdomain on their server - so there's still some of the other guys' involvement.

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

I have a couple of hosting questions for those who sell for a flat fee:

1. Do you offer free hosting forever or do you generally put a notional time limit on this in your service agreement, say 5 years for example?

2. Do you use a standard hosting account or do you use a reseller account for this purpose?

Dave

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

Option two (2) will help you control content and design elements, send files plus instructions on installing files and It will also redirect scripts to business owners. Option two will be more preferable.

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

Did you mean that when you sell mobile sites for a flat rate you use a reseller hosting account?

Dave

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

I have done all three variations, the .mobi, the m.domain.com redirected back to my hosted subdomain and installing directly onto their m.domain.com

It all depends on what type of customer it is I am dealing with and how they FEEL about their current desktop website.

.mobi - usually for business that do not have any kind of IT/webmaster person but at the same time are cautious about messing up their current website. I normally purchase the .mobi domain under my account, thus giving me more control over the situation. Then I charge them a flat rate for mobile site design, a small yearly hosting rate usually $50-100 dollars which includes domain registration.

m.domain.com redirected - usually for business that do not have any kind of IT/webmaster person but does not feel scared about the Internet. I charge them a flat rate for mobile design.

Directly on their m.domain.com - this is for larger businesses that have an IT/Webmaster staff that normally knows how to setup webhosting or hosts their website onsite. I charge them a flat rate for mobile design.

On top of all of this, I create one of two types of mobile sites. A cheaper to build site that is static built in dreamweaver. These sites, I charge a "yearly" updating charge that allows for multiple updates throughout the year with different prices for different amounts of updates. This is for two reasons, first off is due to many businesses that I deal with will do more updates around holidays and less other times and second it gives me more working capital in one yearly payment. I package this with my Social Media updating services, but that is something way off topic for this post.

The other type of site I build is a wordpress driven Mobile site. I charge more to build this type of site for design but I do not charge a updating fee. This is because, I instruct the client on how to update various elements of the site themselves. Then I have an hourly rate for any advanced updating or technical issues, which usually makes me more money in the long run because people end up not having time to do the updating themselves OR they want something more advanced than just changing text.

Also, in terms of Google and mobile sites. If you use a proper redirect, Google's algorithm knows that the redirected site is a mobile version and treats it as an extension of the desktop site. It does not work quite as good with .mobi sites but I read that Google is changing that in the new year with a new meta tag descriptor to have a pointer back to the desktop site to link them.

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

CageyVet, when you build a mobile site in the first scenario (.mobi), because the IT/webmaster person but at the same time are cautious about messing up their current website), you still have to install a line of code on their main website to automatically redirect users to .mobi?

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

For those of you who advocate not messing with the standard site, just having the current webdesigner/hosting person create an m.site.com subdomain and point to your servers... how long do you think it is going to take before the other guy figures out he has a bunch of money leaks happening and decides to plug them by offering his own mobile service/hosting?

Has that happened to anyone yet?

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

Yes, no matter what option there has to be a line of code placed for the redirect so that when a mobile device browser is detected, it then can display the correctly formatted content.

IMnewbie63, all I can say is this...If there is a "web guy" that is currently providing a service for the desktop website needs and you all of a sudden provide a mobile service. Well either that web guy is lazy by not going after that business stream in the first place with this customer, they just do not do mobile websites or they are to busy to go after additional business from this customer. Either way, if you get the site up and running, it is very hard for a business owner to then all of a sudden switch from your services to theirs without some really big incentive. This is especially true if are providing good service to the customer. But in the end, there are plenty more fish in the sea if the web.

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

Good point. I would like to know that as well.
Or, contact the web host first and do a deal, so you are not cut out from the income.

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

If there is one thing I have learnt in my years of business... stop wasting your time worrying about things over which you have no control.

The people making the money are not those who worry about things like that. If it happens just move on.

Re: How to Do Handle the Hosting Issue?
 

I can see this issue as a point of concern, but not enough to stress over it.
If you have good relations with the customer, (as you should have) then
getting the login to the customers website, would Not be a problem.
Besides, If they have the slightest negativity towards you, you can always advise them to change their password to deny further access.
Then in the future, if you have to amend the direction code etc. You can charge them for your wasted time and effort.

(Trust me! I'm a brain surgeon....)

Mark