2nd Dec 2011, 01:11 PM | #1 |
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Hi All, I think a lot of people could benefit from the expertise of some of the knowledgable in this area. Please list the pros and cons of going the route of .m vs .mobi mobile websites: (i'm personally looking to learn from this also) |
2nd Dec 2011, 01:34 PM | #2 |
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I think you mean m. versus .m, as in m.website.com as a mobile version (installed as a subdirectory). I'm not sure what is considered "best practices", but personally I prefer the m.website.com. First, it's cheaper. Costs me nothing to create a subdomain. A .mobi extension costs money. Second, with a .mobi, you have to comply with mobile standards. Which in itself is not a bad idea, but just something that I don't have to worry about with a subdirectory. |
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2nd Dec 2011, 01:40 PM | #3 |
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A lot of people will recommend the use of m. - however one thing you must take into consideration is how long the initial domain is or how is it formed... does the main domain have hyphens or is it overly long - we have had this scenario a few times now and decided to opt for a much shorter domain that used .mobi extension as we felt that a mobile user will have less issues entering the new domain than the clients overly complicated and long url. Adding things such as hyphens on certain mobile devices can be a royal pain. Although its great to have a one glove fits all solution you have to look at each of your clients solutions individually in order to determine the best user experience for your clients visitors. as for all the other pro's and cons of using m. or .mobi have a search around here on WF - there are plenty of threads already discussing this hope that helps jay |
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2nd Dec 2011, 02:50 PM | #4 | |
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2nd Dec 2011, 05:15 PM | #5 |
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I don't think there is a definitive answer on this. Personally I prefer the m.domainname.com but in order for this to work someone has to add an m.domainname.com "A" record to the DNS records for the domain. Easy to do if you have access, but not so easy to do if you don't. Some business owners do not even know who is managing their domain. They just pay the renewal fee when billed. If you register the .mobi for your client you have control so this is not an issue. Re. the .mobi standards, these are out of date and not enforced. My son emailed them for clarification and this was basically the answer. If I can find the exact reply he received I will post it. |
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2nd Dec 2011, 06:27 PM | #6 |
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3rd Dec 2011, 02:12 AM | #7 |
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Hi Ken, m.domainname.com is a sub-domain of domainname.com, so the new record needs to be added at the DNS host for that domain. For example, I use Namecheap to register all my domains, and also use their DNS service. My main domain has the following records (where IP address is IP address of the web host for the main site): Host Name_____IP Address/URL_____Record Type @____________10.20.30.40________A(address) www_________ 10.20.30.40________A(address) For m.subdomain.com, the following entry will need to be added (where IP address is IP address of the web host for the MOBILE site): Host Name_____IP Address/URL_____ Record Type m____________20.40.80.100________A (address) I hope this helps. Kayla |
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3rd Dec 2011, 08:59 AM | #8 |
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This can be easily done if your hosting has a cpanel interface, ie the same control panel used by hostgator - it enables adding a subdomain at the click of a button, and alleviates any technical fears anyone has about adding A records! Lol Although in my opinion it's good to know how to do all this stuff manually too |
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3rd Dec 2011, 09:07 AM | #9 |
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As already mentioned this is a very unclear topic. Jay makes some pretty valid points but for me a m. subdomain should be suffice. And here is why: 1. Your search visibility should be determined by your normal desktop site alone. Your mobile website should only act as a user friendly experence for those using a mobile phone, not as a standalone site with its own independant SEO. Google has said websites using a m. subdomain will not be penalised for duplicate content also. 2. People browsing the internet on their phones are nowadays almost always using a smart phone. Thus, companies should be using QR codes on print material for fast access to a URL, eliminating the frustration of typing overly long URLs. 3. Mobile compliance guidelines have not been brought up to date. Furthermore Google isn't overly emphasizing on delivering mobile only websites just yet in search results on mobile phones. 4. The fact that huge companies like Facebook and Youtube have a m. subdomain shows that this is a very sufficient option for the time being. |
3rd Dec 2011, 09:26 AM | #10 |
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Another issue you may have with m subdomains is getting access to the clients hosting. For wordpress and joomla we are using our own approach which eliminates both m. Subdomains and mobi domains - we simply serve mobile optimized content when a mobile device is detected, switching CSS styles and doc type profile which is also something google talks about. Unless your content validates to xhtml MP google will not consider it mobile no matter where it's located - google currently uses two types of search bots one which is your regular crawler the other emulates the older non smart phone. If your content is XHTML mp valid the only difference I have seen is that if you submit a proper mobile site map it will place a green mobile phone icon next to your listing in the google mobile search for non smartphones. What is frustrating is that google gives no special treatment for it in the mobile search for smart phones. It's kinda hard to explain on a thread and.i have discussed this before in great detail - perhaps for those interested you can Skype with me or I can do a webinar and show exactly what I am talking about. HTH Jay |
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3rd Dec 2011, 09:30 AM | #11 |
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I agree with razztek, go with a mobile compatible version of your website at m.subdomain.com Goodluck! |
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3rd Dec 2011, 09:33 AM | #12 |
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In my humble opinion, as mentioned in the thread, with the purchase of a new .mobi i have the opportunity to create a keyword rich domain name for my client and in many cases out rank their old website (which I probably didn't build). I like doing this for regular seo work also... i mean getting a new domain name and building a new site... that way the weight is on my shoulders and the accolades come to the deserving party after we attain page one rankings. The alternative of benchmarking by way of a snapshot of where the existing site is now and who really was responsible for the positive results is a discussion that's not worth the time. I'm not a domainer so for me i don't claim the .mobi names are more or less valuable just an easy to, in most circumstances get the name we want for the business we're working on. I'll just echo the difficulty in attempting to get root access of an existing webserver to correctly implement the subdomain. Plus we only need one redirect script / user agent, etc.. from the main page. We won't need to build a second landing page for the person that wants to visit the "full site". |
3rd Dec 2011, 09:49 AM | #13 |
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As far as mobile SEO is concerned i would concentrate more on ranking your main site in the Serps than trying to rank your actual mobile content - rank your main site and use a redirect script to point mobile visitors to your mobile friendly content, it will be easier than trying to rank minimal content - this especially applies if your site does not validate to XHTML MP and your are really targeting smartphone device users. Google will clump together non valid mobile content with regular desktop content and have them compete with each other... naturally you can always have your mobile content rank alongside your desktop content but i would absolutely make sure that you have a way of having desktop viewers that come to your mobile site have a way of getting to the regular content. Again if you need more info about this let me know and i will try and find the sources - its all there in the Google Webmaster Guidelines you just need to find it, read it and understand it hth jay |
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3rd Dec 2011, 10:00 AM | #14 |
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well if some sold blackberryphones.co on flippa, wouldn't it be better if the blackberry company has something like blackberryphones.mobi? at least this will help them capture much of the mobile search engine traffic. just my opinion
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3rd Dec 2011, 11:22 AM | #15 | |
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What you have to also bare in mind is how and where the marketing is done for their mobile content... on our mobile marketing artwork the clients do have a separate mobile domain we specifically tell people to go to the .mobi domain, if they still go to the main site with their mobile device we have a mobile prompt to allow users to choose to go to the mobile site or not from the main site and also a redirect back to the main website from the mobile site we also have a qr code on the poster too but not everyone is familiar with QR codes... because of this i also created a mobile site to help people install a QR code app for their phone when they text a number to a certain shortcode... also if they sign up for the client VIP SMS promo they also get the link to the mobile site sent to them as well hth jay | |
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3rd Dec 2011, 11:28 AM | #16 | |
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3rd Dec 2011, 01:20 PM | #17 | |
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you would then upload your mobile content via ftp or the cpanel filemanager to m subfolder it creates under your public_html the content you upload in to this m subfolder will be what you see when you visit m.yourdomain.com hope that makes sense cheers jay Just FYI if you are not hosting the mobile site on the same domain you can also add in an A record as KaylaB mentioned just by clicking on the Simple DNS Zone Editor icon in your cPanel control panel... Simply enter the m where it prompts you for an A record and hit the TAB key it will auto-populate the rest of the A record for you ie m.yourdomain.com in the field labelled address you can enter in the IP of the where the mobile content is or an actual domain ie yourdomain.mobi me personally if this is the case i would just use a redirect script... the less i have to mess around with someone elses actual webhosting account the better.... you dont need them to be coming back to you saying YOU broke their web hosting! lol or its running slow, etc, etc it can just open up a whole can of worms... hth | |
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3rd Dec 2011, 04:57 PM | #18 |
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Thanks as always for your help, Jay - I look forward to your input... If I understand you correctly, you are saying the mobile compliant .mobi has no better chance in serp that a well tagged std. site and a m.subdomain? Other than the aforementioned draw of users who recognize .mobi as EZ load? Or did I get that ack-basswards...? 3M |
3rd Dec 2011, 07:33 PM | #19 | |
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For example, I use NameCheap for my DNS service and Hostgator for my webhosting. | |
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4th Dec 2011, 10:41 AM | #20 | |
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@kayla theres always several ways to do things - and nothing wrong with the way you are doing - everyone to their own We own our own servers so have full access to all our domains dns, as a result we find it easier just to point the nameservers to our servers as it auto configures several dns entries so we dont have to do it manually - so find it much more efficient to do it like that. Plus we can provide our clients with a GUI to add things like subdomains etc as in the video @3M Correct Goggle does not rank a .mobi or valid mobile site just because of the domain name or validation... if that was the case all valid mobile sites would rank at the top of Google for non smartphone mobile search and have little green handsets next to their listing In most instances Google cannot even find the mobile site since its only reference to it is typically a javascript redirect - unless there is an actual backlink to it or it was submitted to google using a mobile sitemap overall until google officially recognizes sites made specifically for smartphones i would continue to rank your main site in the SERPS and where possible try to have a mobile valid site and submit a mobile sitemap... even if you submit a mobile site map if your site doesnt validate your simply wasting your time as it will consider it a regular html site... again if you need the source to this its all there in google webmaster guidelines... however its spread across several pages cheers jay | |
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4th Dec 2011, 02:10 PM | #21 |
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If I use a theirdomain.mobi for my client --- can I also use the m.theirdomain.com too?
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4th Dec 2011, 02:10 PM | #22 |
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Thanks for the answers everybody, finally a thread with some people who know what they are talking about!, a few moew questions... If I create a m.domain.com mobile site do I need to, or is it a good practice, to provide a link from domain.com to m.domain.com, the thinking being that this will ensure that the mobile site will get found by the search engines and also get some page rank from the main site What info/header code etc do you need to add to a mobile site to make sure that the search engines know it is a mobile site Is it true that I'll never see a mobile site listed in the regular search listings?, I assume that google will never display them if I'm using a desktop |
4th Dec 2011, 09:12 PM | #23 | |
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it will prompt your for your new domain - you would enter you .mobi there and the document root would be a sub folder called m once this is created you can set up your m subdomain and point it to your m subfolder using the same method shown above this one is a little trickier to do but it may be easier just to ask your host to do it for you @ken - the best way to make sure google knows your site is mobile friendly is to: 1) Make sure it validates to XHTML MP 2) Create a mobile site map 3) Submit the mobile site map to Google - see this link for more info: Adding mobile URL information to a Sitemap - Webmaster Tools Help As far as i am aware unless you do build your site to conform to standard it wont be identified in Google Search For Non Mobile with a Green Mobile Phone Handset icon next to it - for most people they are more concerned about the site just looking good on a smartphone, whilst it possible to both validate the site and make it look good and functional on a smartphone it does take a little extra understanding and effort... unfortunately right now just because a site may look good on a smartphone its doesnt mean that google will consider it mobile am hoping that in the not too distant future Google will start to identify websites as being mobile that both look good and validate to mobile standards by doing what they do for mobile search for non smartphones.... ie add a handset icon next to the listing... if you want to know more about this - there a lot more to this then what i could post in a site pm i would be more than happy to discuss it in more detail cheers jay | |
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6th Dec 2011, 07:37 AM | #24 |
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Thanks for the clarification on a few things Jay - I personally use the m. for sites that we host and .mobi for clients that have their own hosting
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8th Dec 2011, 05:07 PM | #25 |
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When you create a sub domain such as m.mysite.com do you have to wait (hours/days) for the DNS web records to be updated before it will appear in a browser, just as if it was a new domain that you registered
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8th Dec 2011, 05:28 PM | #26 | |
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Obviously this is a little different if you are using cname records to have a customers subdomain redirect to your domain but if that's not the case then it should be instant. | |
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8th Dec 2011, 05:53 PM | #27 | |
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8th Dec 2011, 06:00 PM | #28 | |
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2. If you haven't uploaded any files into the subdomain then nothing will show up. Trying adding an index file in there so you at least have a page to test. | |
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8th Dec 2011, 06:13 PM | #29 | |
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when setting up the subdomain it asks for the document root, I have it set as public_html/m, is that correct? | |
8th Dec 2011, 06:20 PM | #30 | |
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8th Dec 2011, 06:33 PM | #31 | |
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But I've just noticed since your last reply that the m.mysite.com is now suddenly working and brings up the test index page!, I checked when I created the m subdomain and it's been about 20 mins so for some reason it has taken this long to work, even thought it should have been instant, I guess this is something to do with my hosting account Just finish this question off, I notice that mysite.com/m also displays the test page, is this right, it seems a bit messy having two urls display the same page? thanks for your help | |
8th Dec 2011, 06:57 PM | #32 | |
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8th Dec 2011, 07:09 PM | #33 |
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8th Dec 2011, 07:49 PM | #34 | |
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Here's something I bet you also didn't know then. When you add an addon domain to your hosting account, as you probably know, it simply creates a new folder in your root and anything you upload into that folder shows on that addon domain. That means if you go to that folder on your root domain such a rootdomain.com/addondomainfolder you will see all the content from that addon domain. It's just the way things are setup but it's been used for years so nothing to worry about thus why no one really talks about it. | |
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11th Dec 2011, 09:41 AM | #35 |
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I like the idea mentioned by tobyddd at #24 above but ..... I'm getting the impression that m. is the preferred option by the big boys (Google, Facebook, Yahoo et al). I am quite capable of installing a m.site for myself but I haven't got the confidence to go into a clients hosting account and mess about with his back end especially when I've got nothing to do with the hosting. Is their a way around that issue? I'm thinking of perhaps outsourcing just that task. Is that feasible? The .mobi way seems to get around the problem since I can host it myself separately (it also means I would have control of it and charge the client for future amendments etc), but how does the mobile bot find the site when it enters the .com site. I'm assuming a redirect is called for in which case you still need to enter code in the client’s site. I’m assuming that would be Google UNfriendly. Or am I getting totally confused:confused:
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11th Dec 2011, 10:33 AM | #36 | |
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a lot of people tend to install a mobile javascript redirect solution on the main desktop site that tries to identify and forward mobile visitors to the mobile content, unfortunately this would be ignored by the google mobile bot just as it would a regular google bot - however you do need to have something on the main site that identifies to mobile visitors that they have a mobile site or at least some kind of redirection. i understand you reluctance to have anything to do with the clients original site and or hosting, you become liable if anything should go wrong if you make changes to it. currently as far as i am aware the google bot only mimics older non smart phone user agents, what this means is that if the google mobile bot comes to your site it will only include your site as a real mobile site if your site validates and conforms to XHTML MP or to one of the other mobile standards that google recognizes. since the google mobile bot mimics a non smart phone it is my understanding that it would be directed to a mobile site if a redirect was implemented using php useragent detection since it redirects using headers the best way to ensure the google mobile bot finds your content is by ensuring your site has a properly submitted and formatted mobile sitemap and the your mobile content validates to XHTML MP Since the google mobile bot DOES NOT mimic a smartphome user agent it has know way of knowing that your site just looks good on a smart phone, for this reason if your site does not validate as being mobile it includes your mobile site amongst the rest of the regular search results. This is the reason why a lot of people see mobile traffic already even when they have no mobile site, the chances are pretty slim they came directly to the site simply by typing in the url Additionally the mobile traffic they are seeing coming to the site is probably more smart phone traffic than non smartphone traffic which supports what i am saying. Google search for smartphones is a different portal than Google search for non smartphones ie google.com/m Google search for non smartphones ie Google.com/m will identify mobile sites that validate by placing a green mobile phone handset icon next to the listing, whilst it does draw attention to the listing unlike what some people suggest it does not appear to make a different to the ranking positions, if this where the case the first 30 listings for popular keyterms would all have this green icons next to the listings but they simply dont. i am hoping that google does in fact start to address the growing number of sites that do not necessarily validate to mobile standards but are actually mobile friendly for smartphones, identifying them like they do on mobile search for non smartphones would be awesome i know certain people will not agree with what i am saying here, but everyone to their own - i am seeing a lot of information banded around without being supported. Having spent a lot of time on this this is my own conclusion on a subject i am very passionate about Hope that helps Cheers Jay | |
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11th Dec 2011, 12:44 PM | #37 |
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Google sees the industry divided on this for a while to come. I have seen a couple of videos that Matt Cutts has definitely let us know that Google presently thinks the sub-domain practice is of greater benefit at this time. If you must use ".mobi", use m.domain.com and redirect the domain.mobi to m.domain.com. As far as SEO goes, Google will likely pave the way for mobile SEO. In the videos from Matt Cutts some time back, Matt said he recommended the m.domain.com path. When you expect users to use your mobile website often, recommend that they bookmark it. He added that the m.domain.com has more advantages. However, the debate will remain and the industry will remain divided for the near future. I've spokent to many developers and platform providers recently on this and they, for the most part, agree with buying the ".mobi" for brand protection and using a redirect to the sub-domain if you must. In either case, most of them recommend the sub-domain. When I have searched through the large companies worldwide, the vast majority of them are using the sub-domain version. Many of the SEO experts as well as the Big G say (or intimate) that you get more Google Love this way. T J |
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12th Dec 2011, 10:59 AM | #38 |
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RE: #7 - I use namecheap and my cpanel to add subdomains. EZ. Thanks Jay for taking time to share great mobile info. The point about clients with mystery webmasters is a good one. Seems it would be easier to get the .mobi domain new for them or register a new keyword juiced domain and add an m.domain.com? Would this retain control -- EZier for me --- and impress prospects/clients that their current vendor is not taking care of business for them? Open door to add services package beyond mobile site? If you ask the prospect/client for file access to domain.com, 1. they have to work to use you, not good; 2. Your delivery is delayed while they find that piece of paper/email with the guy's name on it; 3. Current vendor has a shot at taking your prospect away when they hear from their client. Trying to decide best way to make a simple, EZ "yes" mobile site offer to a dentist, deliver it, and then move into bigger package when he realizes he's tossing $$$$ out window now. His site's crap -- looks like 1and1 template -- from out of state "healthcare web specialty company." Wayback says this site first crawled in Feb 2011. Original site --- looks JUST like it -- goes back to 2001 so @ least the guy knows he needs to be online. Any advice on this? Many thanks. |
12th Dec 2011, 11:35 AM | #39 | |
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I have seen a superb product which comes with developer rights and which produces professional looking customizeable wordpress mobile phone sites very quickly (they actually use a dentist site as one of their examples). But before I invest $400 for the software I need to work out how to configure the sites WITHOUT venturing into the clients hosting account - I'm not confident about doing that myself. I've considerd creating and hosting a client's .mobi site and then giving him a redirect script for his .com site and telling him to sort it out with his IT department/host/friend/himself but I'm not certain that that is really very professional. Still haven't really cracked it but open to sugestions. Neill | |
12th Dec 2011, 12:31 PM | #40 |
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Going back to the Addon domain / sub domain - I have a multi site hosting as opposed to reseller so my domains are added as Will described earlier in #34 So that i can use m. on my addon domains as well.... my domains are set up like this.... Main domain is the rootdomain Then I have a folder set up on that called 'sites' I then place all my addon domains into the 'sites' folder (which sits below the root file) Then when I create a m. subdomain for one of my addon domains it 'belongs' to only that addon domain. I have no problem accessing it as either m.addondomain or addondomain.com/m as long as I create each addon domain and place it into the sites folder. I have half a dozen sites set up and working like this. Its just getting your head around it !!!! Took me ages! Karen |
12th Dec 2011, 04:57 PM | #41 | |
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Thanks for the info - but some clarification, please? I created a 'sites' folder and transferred a couple of my add-on domains into it. I created a 'm.domain1.com' subdomain for the first site and the 'm' folder appeared in the 'sites' folder and works OK. I then created the 'm.domain2.com' for the second site but it links to the first site's 'm' folder. So, two sites, only one 'm' folder. What am I doing wrong? | |
12th Dec 2011, 06:52 PM | #42 | |
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Sorry, I obviously didn't make that bit clear. When you set up the subdomain you have to set up as example : addon domain name = insouthampton.biz subdomain = m so on the' create a subdomain' page in File Manager of cpanel subdirectory : m . insouthampton.biz the default is then : Document root: public_html/m but YOU have to change it to :- Document root: public_html/sites/insouthampton.biz/m This ensures that the 'm' (subdom) file is stored within the (addon) insouthampton.biz file and applies directly to it. If you allowed the Document Root to be : public_html/sites/m then that subdomain would be on the SAME level (in the same file ) as all the addon domains that you put in the sites folder and it would always be the first (subdom) m. created , that would be found/shown. You don't actually NEED the 'sites' folder. I just find it keeps the directory cleaner. You can actually apply this same logic to naming within the public_html root i.e. ensure you direct your m. subdom into public_html/subdom/m I hope this makes it clearer for you. If not, ask again Karen | |
12th Dec 2011, 07:06 PM | #43 |
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and using the same bit of logic I had a bit of fun and created a sub domain of a sub domain of an addon domain!!! which can be reached either by :- http://m.games.mobizsite.com/ or http://mobizsite.com/games/m/ have fun |
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12th Dec 2011, 10:02 PM | #44 |
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Thanks, Karen. Now I've got it working OK. Very handy tip to keep things nice and tidy. |
13th Dec 2011, 03:06 AM | #45 |
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That sounds great Kingcup and I'll be using your suggestions. The problem with it for me though is that you cannot do that for a client unless you have access to their server/cPanel or whatever. Personally, I haven't got the confidence to do that yet. I can set up web sites customised specifically for mobile phones - not just a squashed up version of the .com site. After m. the .mobi seems the next best choice to do this as stated by BarberaP. But how does the mobile phone user (or Google mobile bot) get automatically redirected to the .mobi site when they enter the .com domain into their phone - again, without me having to get access to the clients website?????????? |
13th Dec 2011, 07:11 PM | #46 |
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MacAffi As you are talking about people on a mobile phone anyway, you could suggest the business uses 'mobile marketing' methods like qrcodes or texting to get the website on to the phone, then by default you could send them directly to your mobile site. You could host it as a sub domain of a site of yours , like m.citylocal.mobi . You could even then offer the business the option to send people to their 'main' site through a button on the mobile site. Karen ps I've learnt most of my mobile stuff through masters like Will and others on WF ! |
13th Dec 2011, 07:39 PM | #47 |
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Very interesting thread. Am presently doing the Gudelis mobile course and a lot of these issues are skated over. Like I approach a client build them a beautiful mobile friendly site, but they have no idea who their website host is. And their webmaster will not want to give me the business so offers to do it him/herself. How do you beat that? |
13th Dec 2011, 07:46 PM | #48 |
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[QUOTE=MaggieMay;5231440]Am presently doing the Gudelis mobile course and a lot of these issues are skated over.QUOTE] I agree, better more detailed info for free in the threads! |
13th Dec 2011, 09:34 PM | #49 |
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Personally i suggest the purchase of a super short URL acronym of your full business domain i.e. My company is www[.]gomobileinnovations[.]com ---very long our "m. or /m" is just a short URL we purchased for $6.99 gomo[.]io All you need to do for the m. is add a CNAME record to your DNS manager at your domain registrar (usually your hosting provider...i.e. godaddy) Here is a HOWTO article we wrote for our customers ... Includes a script on how to auto detect and redirect mobile devices to your new mobile sites DNS Manage Article: https://gomo.zendesk.com/entries/207...he-address-bar Mobile Device Detect and Redirect Script Article: https://gomo.zendesk.com/entries/207...t-and-redirect PEACE --- good luck! Cheers hope this helps people out there |
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15th Dec 2011, 05:12 PM | #50 |
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Can anyone explain exactly what it is, or what what needs to be there, in a mobile website that tells the search engines that it is a website designed for mobiles?
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