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Unread 10th Oct 2012, 02:48 PM   #1
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Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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I originally posted this in a WSO thread, but I think it warrants a post here
and independant discussion.

Let us Assume you are a Local Marketer and approaching a business. We recommend Mobile Apps over Mobile Websites for the following reasons. If you have reasons to agree or disagree I would like to hear them

---

In my experience a mobile app for a Local Business is 1000x more effective for the business for the following reasons

1 - mobile sites are essentially a website formatted down. A viewer will get "more or less" the same experience and it wont significantly add or detract any added value

2 - people visit a mobile site and then are done. People install a Mobile App and it sits in their pocket on their phone following them around everyday.

3 - Mobile Apps give access to Push Notifications. Unlimited amounts and no charge for Pushing. This is similar (but different) to an SMS. So a customer installs your mobile app and then any time you like, you log into our dashboard and do a "push" which instantly delivers any message you like to them.. promotions, coupons deals etc...

And that is just the beginning. Bottom line is if you are a local marketer, you need to be selling mobile apps, not mobile sites as the value added is immense.

So to affirm, after significant time in the pits and practical experience with customers and actual usage, we found that mobile apps deliver the experience and value they need whereas mobile sites really only add a + to what they already have.. no excitement or gamechanging in how they market and acquire customers.

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Unread 10th Oct 2012, 02:58 PM   #2
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Ok so for example, my new client is going to be a tattoo parlour.

Mr walking down the street want a tattoo, so he pulls out his phone.

Is he going to go to the app store and search for tattoo parlour apps or is he going to his web browser to type tattoo parlour city?

Mobile sites are a huge money maker for both us and the person buying, you might be able to get them on board for a native app later on but it's much harder to get a sale than for mobile site.

As you can't really explain the ROI of an app.

I sell sites like this...

This many people potentially search for you on a mobile device, times that by a modest percentage of that number by the average lifetime value of a customer and voila, you make the money that ou spent on the site back in the first month.

Apps are much more difficult unless you already have a relationship with the client.

As for the more or less the same experience thing, I completely disagree. People on a phone want to be able to know what you do, where you are, and how to contact you as quickly as possible, a mobile site can do this instantly, a non optimised site is a hassle to find this information.

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Unread 10th Oct 2012, 03:12 PM   #3
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Originally Posted by massiveray View Post

Ok so for example, my new client is going to be a tattoo parlour.

Mr walking down the street want a tattoo, so he pulls out his phone.

Is he going to go to the app store and search for tattoo parlour apps or is he going to his web browser to type tattoo parlour city?

Mobile sites are a huge money maker for both us and the person buying, you might be able to get them on board for a native app later on but it's much harder to get a sale than for mobile site.

As you can't really explain the ROI of an app.

I sell sites like this...

This many people potentially search for you on a mobile device, times that by a modest percentage of that number by the average lifetime value of a customer and voila, you make the money that ou spent on the site back in the first month.

Apps are much more difficult unless you already have a relationship with the client.

As for the more or less the same experience thing, I completely disagree. People on a phone want to be able to know what you do, where you are, and how to contact you as quickly as possible, a mobile site can do this instantly, a non optimised site is a hassle to find this information.
Ok, mobile apps do NOT help you acquire new clients, they are to cement and expand the existing relationship with client in amazing ways.

This is clear.

but mobile sites, only add a "plus" to whatever experience is delivered on a regular website. aside from a "conceptual" gain, mobile sites give the exact same experience as a regular website, but just a "little bit nicer"

Point being, it is not a selling point or even that useful aside from an addon to a regular website.

I know for a fact, when i'm on my mobile and goto some website, sure its nice to see a mobile site, but.. . it really doesn't change anything in my experience with the website, I still get the information I need.. . (regardless if it was a mobile site or a regular site I viewed on my mobile) This is the point i'm making.

In terms of "ROI of an App" Push notifications. Nough said.

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Unread 10th Oct 2012, 03:16 PM   #4
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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To add, I think a mobile site is fine if sold as an addon to a website creation service, but the reality is you are not adding much practical value for a client aside from a minor "+"

Mobile Apps are a very different thing and useful in their own independent regards for client retention and value adding.

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Unread 10th Oct 2012, 03:20 PM   #5
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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As a guy on the other side here is why you pitch mobile websites vs. mobile apps.

Making your website mobile friendly just makes sense. All you have to do is pull out a phone and most business owners will get it. We got out mobile website about a year and a half ago. Getting a mobile friendly website is common sense. If you have any skills at selling you can get 90% of business owners to want a mobile website.

Now let's look at mobile apps. For some business this may make sense but for the vast majority it will not. You have to be able to answer why, the prospect, as a business owner or manager of a local business would want an app?

Like I say every time this comes up. Grab a bunch of your friends and look at all your phones. How many of you have apps for businesses? I bet a few do but they are for large businesses like Target. Now ask each and every one of them if their favorite local resturant, bar, or etc had an app would they download it. The vast majority wouldn't for the same reason the vast majority of local customers don't visit the website of their favorite resturant all the time. There is no use to it.

What will you put into a local app for my business where people will first want to download it and second actually use it regularly? And how based on the cost will I see a positive ROI worth doing it?

Can you answer these questions? if so get out there and sell apps as an upsell. But why ignore something that every business truly needs to pitch something that if we were all honest we would know really wouldn't benefit the vast majority of businesses.

The business I would for sells RVs. You could actually argue well that an app for us makes sense. You know why we don't have one? Because we know the vast majority would never install it. Why waste the money on something that isn't needed? Our mobile site made sense because the numbers showed we have people in phones browsing our site. But the app would have just be throwing money away.

But hey if someone wants to pitch me on mobile apps feel free. And on that note let's look at how you pitched it here.

1. A mobile site often is a similar experience tailored to phones and other mobile devices. The value it adds is allowing those customer who use their phones to surf the net to be able to use out site and browse our inventory. Pull up the stats and you can show me and any other business how significant this number of customers is. If you don't believe that has value I have no idea what to tell you.

2. People visit many sites mobile and otherwise and are done. It depends on what the site in question offers. If a customer is looking for a resturant menu and they find the menu and place an order has it not done it's job even though they are now gone? Or in our case if a person searches our inventory and finds a camper they are interested in and calls us should i be upset that they are not still hanging out on our website? Honestly I don't want them on the website getting buyers remorse and wondering if another camper will be better for them. Every website has a purpose and for the vast majority of businesses that purpose is not to get customers to visit every day.

3. Push notification can be nice. I will give you this one. But you can do many of the same things with email and text marketing. I personally am one of the many who turn off push notifications yet I sign up for email and text VIP clubs.

What you don't mention is how a mobile site is passive. The prospect doesn't have to do anything but go to the website on their mobile device. An App is active. They have to install it. Sure you can get the website to prompt them to install it but what happens if they don't want to and instead of going to your website they back out and go to your competitor's website which is mobile ready without the need to download an app.

And like i said before even if they download it how do I get them to open it other then me sending them Push notifications? Why would they want to have an app for my business? If my customers will want it I will want it. So tell me and all the other business owners and managers why our customers want our app taking up space on their phone.
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Unread 10th Oct 2012, 03:35 PM   #6
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Lets say I am driving through an unfamiliar town and get a flat tyre.

I use my smartphone to check Google that has my location already from my phones GPS.

I search for tyres and up come the results, I click one and get a 'mobile site' with a map location and a couple of buttons to a 'our services' and 'about us' page and a 'push to call' button. My problem is solved.

How would an app help me and why would the company be wasting time with their mobile site.?

An app would benefit the company by being able to use push notifications to inform users of discounts but an app for them would be no use me as I am just passing through and needed a new tyre.

A mobile app is not 'instead of' a mobile site.
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Unread 10th Oct 2012, 03:47 PM   #7
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

As a guy on the other side here is why you pitch mobile websites vs. mobile apps.

Making your website mobile friendly just makes sense. All you have to do is pull out a phone and most business owners will get it. We got out mobile website about a year and a half ago. Getting a mobile friendly website is common sense. If you have any skills at selling you can get 90% of business owners to want a mobile website.

Now let's look at mobile apps. For some business this may make sense but for the vast majority it will not. You have to be able to answer why, the prospect, as a business owner or manager of a local business would want an app?

Like I say every time this comes up. Grab a bunch of your friends and look at all your phones. How many of you have apps for businesses? I bet a few do but they are for large businesses like Target. Now ask each and every one of them if their favorite local resturant, bar, or etc had an app would they download it. The vast majority wouldn't for the same reason the vast majority of local customers don't visit the website of their favorite resturant all the time. There is no use to it.

What will you put into a local app for my business where people will first want to download it and second actually use it regularly? And how based on the cost will I see a positive ROI worth doing it?

Can you answer these questions? if so get out there and sell apps as an upsell. But why ignore something that every business truly needs to pitch something that if we were all honest we would know really wouldn't benefit the vast majority of businesses.

The business I would for sells RVs. You could actually argue well that an app for us makes sense. You know why we don't have one? Because we know the vast majority would never install it. Why waste the money on something that isn't needed? Our mobile site made sense because the numbers showed we have people in phones browsing our site. But the app would have just be throwing money away.

But hey if someone wants to pitch me on mobile apps feel free. And on that note let's look at how you pitched it here.

1. A mobile site often is a similar experience tailored to phones and other mobile devices. The value it adds is allowing those customer who use their phones to surf the net to be able to use out site and browse our inventory. Pull up the stats and you can show me and any other business how significant this number of customers is. If you don't believe that has value I have no idea what to tell you.

2. People visit many sites mobile and otherwise and are done. It depends on what the site in question offers. If a customer is looking for a resturant menu and they find the menu and place an order has it not done it's job even though they are now gone? Or in our case if a person searches our inventory and finds a camper they are interested in and calls us should i be upset that they are not still hanging out on our website? Honestly I don't want them on the website getting buyers remorse and wondering if another camper will be better for them. Every website has a purpose and for the vast majority of businesses that purpose is not to get customers to visit every day.

3. Push notification can be nice. I will give you this one. But you can do many of the same things with email and text marketing. I personally am one of the many who turn off push notifications yet I sign up for email and text VIP clubs.

What you don't mention is how a mobile site is passive. The prospect doesn't have to do anything but go to the website on their mobile device. An App is active. They have to install it. Sure you can get the website to prompt them to install it but what happens if they don't want to and instead of going to your website they back out and go to your competitor's website which is mobile ready without the need to download an app.

And like i said before even if they download it how do I get them to open it other then me sending them Push notifications? Why would they want to have an app for my business? If my customers will want it I will want it. So tell me and all the other business owners and managers why our customers want our app taking up space on their phone.
I don't disagree that a mobile site is an "easy sell"... But the point I'm making... Is will having a mobile site vs regular website result in any significant revune increase for the majority of local business. In my experience, no it won't.... Its just another thing to dazzle them with if you are in the business of dazzling... And sure add it on and it does add some sort of value, but if we are talking about more bottom line for your client then mobile apps WIN. I'm in the business of making my clients more money and showing them $ tangible results... Not just selling them more" cool stuff"

Now to respond to your points...

Mobile apps are for customer retention not aqusistion.... To get them to install you give them an incentive.. A good local marketing consultants will help their clients get this setup... Ie.. A free drink if you install the app... Or something of the sorts.... To get them installed on the spot...

Once they have it installed doesn't really matter if they use it or not... If you are clever they will because you add value with things like a local or targeted news feed etc... But even if they never open it it doesn't matter because of...

..... push notices... You said something about turning yours off... To that I say you are In the 0.01 percent.... Man... I do mobile for a living and don't know how to turn off mine... So it's not something I would worry about customers doing...

As to reach... Depending on whose stats you believe push notices have somewhere between 80 to 97 percent read rate...... Email... Ermmm.. 3 percent maybe.... Text messages... Well they cost you per text they aren't multimedia and have to go through a filtering process at the carrier and people have become blind to them...

It is not even a debate regarding the power of PN....

Bottom line is as a consultant go sell mobile websites if you please but....that is small thinking... You can start charging ALOT more when you provide your customer with something that has a measurable ROI for them which becomes painfully clear once you get their customers installed and engaged.

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Unread 10th Oct 2012, 03:52 PM   #8
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Originally Posted by Valdor Kiebach View Post

Lets say I am driving through an unfamiliar town and get a flat tyre.

I use my smartphone to check Google that has my location already from my phones GPS.

I search for tyres and up come the results, I click one and get a 'mobile site' with a map location and a couple of buttons to a 'our services' and 'about us' page and a 'push to call' button. My problem is solved.

How would an app help me and why would the company be wasting time with their mobile site.?

An app would benefit the company by being able to use push notifications to inform users of discounts but an app for them would be no use me as I am just passing through and needed a new tyre.

A mobile app is not 'instead of' a mobile site.
I agree they are very different.... However in that scenario you described a regular site vs a mobile site is a.... whatever... difference.... Its not bad to have a mobile site... But....

I think the basis of my discussion is that quite frequently uneducated customers and sometimes consultants often get in a head trip of "mobile site vs mobile app" and the fact is that they are made for very different purposes and that in my sales approach I could show any local business honestly with real numbers how a mobile app will increase their bottom line whereas a mobile website would just be something "nice to have"

Point is... Don't confuse the two and make sure your customers clearly understand the difference and usage.

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Unread 10th Oct 2012, 05:05 PM   #9
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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For 99% of clients its mobile site over app all the time. My reasons are

1) A potential client is not going to pull out his phone open the app store to search for the italian takeaways in sydney
2) People that are going to their desktop site get redirected to a mobile site, not told they have to download an app to see the content. That is one less step a potential customer has to take and the more steps the less likely.
3) I have never heard of anyone ranking number 1 on google for city + need with an app, google is the shizzle as far as finding new customers.

Apps work for businesses with established clients as a way to push info (via notifications for sales etc) but for finding new clients and even providing casual info to existing ones sites are the way to go imo.

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Unread 10th Oct 2012, 05:38 PM   #10
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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It seems to me you are missing a few things. Some which have been mentioned. You may have a slight bias towards an app since that is what you sell.

1. A user on a mobile devices experience on a non mobile website is HELL. Hard to navigate, some elements not functional, some sites cant be viewed at all. Usually the user will leave the website leading to possible missed business.

So a mobile site does enhance what a mobile user will experience.

2. Users can download a home screen icon to their mobile device like an app, subscribe to sms, email, etc.

So to say you are not giving value to a business by adding a mobile version of their website is way off.

Last edited on 10th Oct 2012 at 05:40 PM. Reason: more info
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Unread 10th Oct 2012, 05:53 PM   #11
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Originally Posted by Greg Jacobs View Post

Ok, mobile apps do NOT help you acquire new clients, they are to cement and expand the existing relationship with client in amazing ways.

This is clear.

but mobile sites, only add a "plus" to whatever experience is delivered on a regular website. aside from a "conceptual" gain, mobile sites give the exact same experience as a regular website, but just a "little bit nicer"

Point being, it is not a selling point or even that useful aside from an addon to a regular website.

I know for a fact, when i'm on my mobile and goto some website, sure its nice to see a mobile site, but.. . it really doesn't change anything in my experience with the website, I still get the information I need.. . (regardless if it was a mobile site or a regular site I viewed on my mobile) This is the point i'm making.

In terms of "ROI of an App" Push notifications. Nough said.
I think you're just plain wrong with your mobile site opinions, not that I am fighting either side of the argument, I make great money with apps and totally know their worth, it's just that most of the time they aren't a viable alternative to a mobile optimised site.

In terms of your ROI, push notifications point, that is completely to what I meant, I meant that you can't tell your client how much they will make from having an app each month before they have one.

With a mobile site, I can estimate conservatively the amount that the site will earn them each month and show the, how long it will take to make their money back, the answer to this is they always make their money in the first month.

You should do some research on the bounce rates of people who visit a site that isn't optimised from a mobile device. You'll quickly see that not having one is leaving a lot of cashoosh on the table.

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Unread 10th Oct 2012, 06:05 PM   #12
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Mobile site wins over mobile app.
I don't have to repeat what other said above but it's all true and for client retention you are wrong wrong wrong!!! A bad marketer will say what you said but a good one will see opportunities for mobile marketing with coupons, qr codes...

So totally disagree with you.

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Unread 10th Oct 2012, 06:42 PM   #13
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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I also think mobile websites win out over apps, but apps do have their place. One of the biggest reasons a mobile website is better is that any smartphone with an internet browser can have practically the same experience, and you can counter the benefits of push notifications with SMS marketing.

If you design an app for a business, you normally start with iOS, and you'll have to make sure the app looks good on both iPod/iPhone and iPad - having a shrunk down version of an iPod app on an iPad looks just as bad as a full website on a smartphone. And you'll also need to pass the Apple approval process, and Apple is notorious for rejecting apps that are primarily used for marketing. You have no guarantees that the app will even be approved.

And then you have to design the app for Android, which doesn't use XCode like Apple. So your costs, development time, and maintenance time go up just to capture the Android users.

The bottoms line is, what do you hope to accomplish with mobile marketing? Connecting with your customers and prospects, converting them, and keeping them as repeat customers, right? You can do that and more with a mobile website.

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Unread 10th Oct 2012, 08:16 PM   #14
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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They both add value and can increase ROI for a business. Just remember that each has a different use. I don't think it's clever to compare apples with oranges.
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Unread 10th Oct 2012, 09:09 PM   #15
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Truthfully, it's kind of a silly discussion. Apps and websites serve completely
different purposes. Trying to compare them and declare that one is better than
the other is to truly not understand either.

Each serves a purpose and produces a result that can not be accomplished
by the other so what's the point?

If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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Unread 10th Oct 2012, 09:40 PM   #16
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Suggesting that mobile sites are a waste of time is just flat-out ridiculous (but not entirely surprising, considering the product you're promoting in your signature). I think apps have their uses, but for most small businesses... a mobile site is going to be much more practical than a mobile app will be.

Most people won't be bothered to download and install an app... unless they have a very compelling reason to do so (ie a bribe that they can't refuse). But people don't think twice about visiting a website on their mobile device.

And yes, push notifications are free, but they are certainly not the be-all-end-all of mobile communication (for one, they have a lower delivery/open rate than SMS).

As I said though, apps do have their uses in certain situations, so IF it makes sense for the business, then there's no reason you can't offer your client an app in addition to a mobile site.


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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 01:49 AM   #17
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Interestingly, smartphones have now just made it to 50% of all cell phones in the US. That number is surely lower in many other countries. Of that percentage of smartphones, many are older and therefore not able to run iphone or android apps. I have not seen any numbers on this but bet it's probably close to 50% again. This means that you are targeting approx. 25% of the cell phone users. SMS reaches almost all of these including most feature phones. Text to 97% or push to 25%. I know what I would choose.
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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 01:54 AM   #18
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Good we have gotten people stirred up. I see lots of ya are very gungho for mobile sites and I think the reason is because that is what you have been educated to present to the customer. Point I'm making is if you are that passionate about mobile sites... Well I can show you how you can charge more and deliver more practical value with an app... (perhaps in addition to your mobile sites)

So the point is to make customers aware the very clear difference... And different usage of such

Mobile site = website on wheels... Used for information and customer aqusistion
Mobile App = customer retention and enhancement device

Now when you market a mobile app to your clients you need to keep the following points in mind to forestall their questions

-the two cannot be compared and are not an either /or decision
-Nobody is ever going to install a mobile app for a local business voluntarily... As a consultant you need to help them devise an incentive plan to present it as a customer extension goal. This usually implies printing a QR code on a nice sign and putting it at the register with an incentive and staff trained to ask... Or same on their direct mailing material.
-If it is a micro transaction business like a cafe or salon then the app should be in use some interactive aspect like a loyalty program or GPS Coupons.... In addition to using PNs to announce specials
-If it is an infrequent transaction business like dentist or real estate agent then the app should offer useful and generic and probably localized info like MLS listing or local news/events so that the user associates it with being an informative useful app that is just "provided by...."... your client.... To keep them top of minds... Sorta like real estate agents giving out free notepads with their pix on it
-once installed mobile apps remove the customer from the competitive space of the Web... You sit on their phone everyday provide them value and entertainment and get daily" free* advertising top of mind for customers that use/see your app.

Shall we continue?

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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 02:07 AM   #19
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Originally Posted by DougPage View Post

Interestingly, smartphones have now just made it to 50% of all cell phones in the US. That number is surely lower in many other countries. Of that percentage of smartphones, many are older and therefore not able to run iphone or android apps. I have not seen any numbers on this but bet it's probably close to 50% again. This means that you are targeting approx. 25% of the cell phone users. SMS reaches almost all of these including most feature phones. Text to 97% or push to 25%. I know what I would choose.
Sure.... Stats are stats and we can flop stats all day and disagree but I know what I have seen...

Besides advantages mentioned in previous post. People are blind to texts unless it is for some specfic event reminder. ... Its just like another email not to mention regulatory issues..
With regard to smartphone pentration,,it is more like 50% can install your app... In middle class educated markets its more like 80 percent with the drop off being one partner in a relationship so either the husband or wife won't have it. ..... In lower class markets its more like 15-20%....so I guess it just depends where you want to be spending your time...... . And people with smart phones have a higher customer value as well...... Keep that in mind...

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Originally Posted by Greg Jacobs View Post

I agree they are very different.... However in that scenario you described a regular site vs a mobile site is a.... whatever... difference.... Its not bad to have a mobile site... But....

I think the basis of my discussion is that quite frequently uneducated customers and sometimes consultants often get in a head trip of "mobile site vs mobile app" and the fact is that they are made for very different purposes and that in my sales approach I could show any local business honestly with real numbers how a mobile app will increase their bottom line whereas a mobile website would just be something "nice to have"

Point is... Don't confuse the two and make sure your customers clearly understand the difference and usage.
Ok I own a local landscaping business in the UK and I would love to know how having an app would help me make more money. I have been thinking about apps but honestly cant think of a reason why someone would download it. If you have any ideas of how its going to make me money, I would love to know

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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 02:16 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by wcroz99 View Post

Ok I own a local landscaping business in the UK and I would love to know how having an app would help me make more money. I have been thinking about apps but honestly cant think of a reason why someone would download it. If you have any ideas of how its going to make me money, I would love to know

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Your business would take the same approach as a dentist or real estate business where you essentially craft a useful informational app regarding the local area... Local News.. Events.. Landscaping education?... Etc... And have it presented by you with your contact details and pitch in the app..... I would get a QR code for it printed on your flyers with some incentive to install it..... Again they will install it not for you but for the daily content the app will provide.... But then you are top of mind all the time....

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Originally Posted by Greg Jacobs View Post

Your business would take the same approach as a dentist or real estate business where you essentially craft a useful informational app regarding the local area... Local News.. Events.. Landscaping education?... Etc... And have it presented by you with your contact details and pitch in the app..... I would get a QR code for it printed on your flyers with some incentive to install it..... Again they will install it not for you but for the daily content the app will provide.... But then you are top of mind all the time....
Interesting, although I still think it would take quite a bit of promoting in the local area to actually get people to download it.

Also, as a local business owner, I personally would not want a mobile site for my business. There are 3 reasons for this:

1. My site displays well enough and the text can be read just fine, including my telephone number.

2. In my particular business its very important that things look pretty and, well, mobile sites don't.

3. Lastly, when a customer is going to spend on average £5K on their property, they will do lots of research on potential contractors and want to see pictures of previous work so therefore, want to see a proper site.

That said if my local business was a locksmith, plumber or garage then having a mobile site will definitely give an advantage over the competition, so would be a no-brainer.

Just so you know, I'm in my mid-20s, so I get technology and I'm not a tradesman who thinks a yellow pages ad is all the advertising I need. Most tradesman I know have only recently realised that websites are worth having and most of these websites are poor at best. So trying to convince tradesman to get a mobile site, could be a difficult sell.
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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 03:10 AM   #23
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Originally Posted by Greg Jacobs View Post

1 - mobile sites are essentially a website formatted down. A viewer will get "more or less" the same experience and it wont significantly add or detract any added value

2 - people visit a mobile site and then are done. People install a Mobile App and it sits in their pocket on their phone following them around everyday.

3 - Mobile Apps give access to Push Notifications. Unlimited amounts and no charge for Pushing. This is similar (but different) to an SMS. So a customer installs your mobile app and then any time you like, you log into our dashboard and do a "push" which instantly delivers any message you like to them.. promotions, coupons deals etc...
You make some excellent points and I agree for the most part - apps really are a great way to interact with users via their smartphones. HOWEVER, I don't think it replaces the mobile website because many people still like to browse through a website that has all the information they're looking to find about your business, and for that you need your website to be compatible with mobile devices.
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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 03:51 AM   #24
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You have a superb looking website , extremely professional.... when viewed
on a pc.

if I was looking to spend a lot of money on home improvement, I would indeed be doing some online research, looking at customer reviews, etc.

But if I happened to see your website on a mobile phone, I would not be viewing your website through your eyes, in the first few seconds I would
have formed an opinion, and it would be based on what I see, and user
experience, and I wouldn't come to the same conclusion that your website
looks good on a mobile.

it is not good marketing practice, assuming that your customers will be going through the same thought processes as yourself,

but regardless of what I think , or what you think, or what statistics say, i recommend that you see what your customers think, have at google analytics,
perhaps show your customers some alternatives and ask for feedback, and then base your decision on what your customers are telling you, because , after all,
they pay your bills.

My personal preference would be to see a video, with customer testimonials, something that is going to grab my attention and make me listen.






Originally Posted by wcroz99 View Post

Interesting, although I still think it would take quite a bit of promoting in the local area to actually get people to download it.

Also, as a local business owner, I personally would not want a mobile site for my business. There are 3 reasons for this:

1. My site displays well enough and the text can be read just fine, including my telephone number.

2. In my particular business its very important that things look pretty and, well, mobile sites don't.

3. Lastly, when a customer is going to spend on average £5K on their property, they will do lots of research on potential contractors and want to see pictures of previous work so therefore, want to see a proper site.

That said if my local business was a locksmith, plumber or garage then having a mobile site will definitely give an advantage over the competition, so would be a no-brainer.

Just so you know, I'm in my mid-20s, so I get technology and I'm not a tradesman who thinks a yellow pages ad is all the advertising I need. Most tradesman I know have only recently realised that websites are worth having and most of these websites are poor at best. So trying to convince tradesman to get a mobile site, could be a difficult sell.
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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 03:53 AM   #25
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Originally Posted by wcroz99 View Post


2. In my particular business its very important that things look pretty and, well, mobile sites don't.
While I agree that a mobile site may not be ridiculously effective for your business due to the industry you're in, you don't need a tap to call etc, mobile sites are waaaaaay sexier looking than most standard sites, at least mine are.

I don't think you've been looking in the right places if you don't think they're pretty.

Also take a look at your analytics, I bet you'd be surprised how many people check your site from a mobile device.

Edit... Actually just did a bit of research and there are a shit ton of mobile searches for keywords in your industry and area. And although your site does look "okay" on a mobile device, you defo need to invest in an optimised site, you'd convert a hell of a lot more.

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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 04:20 AM   #26
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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but most users use mobiles now

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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 04:33 AM   #27
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Hey Greg Jacobs
Both mobile apps and websites are having it's own potential. Do agree that apps are installed in the devices and provides push notifications and further business but when someone searches web for some services apps does not show up. Mobile websites lets people know about your services.
In my view, businesses must invest in both mobile websites and apps.

I am Daniel Jones, working in a Mobile Application Development Company as a Mobile App Developer. I enjoys exploring apps on iOS, blackberry, android and other mobile platforms.
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Originally Posted by massiveray View Post

While I agree that a mobile site may not be ridiculously effective for your business due to the industry you're in, you don't need a tap to call etc, mobile sites are waaaaaay sexier looking than most standard sites, at least mine are.

I don't think you've been looking in the right places if you don't think they're pretty.

Also take a look at your analytics, I bet you'd be surprised how many people check your site from a mobile device.

Edit... Actually just did a bit of research and there are a shit ton of mobile searches for keywords in your industry and area. And although your site does look "okay" on a mobile device, you defo need to invest in an optimised site, you'd convert a hell of a lot more.

Ok ive just had a look at my analytics and 9% of my visitors are viewing my site via a mobile device, with a bounce rate of 68%. This is compared to a bounce rate of 52% for desktop visitors. So I suppose this could be better.

Do you have any examples of some of the best looking mobile sites? Admittedly ive only seen around 10 sites all of which have looked pretty poor. Perhaps if I see some good ones, then I could be sold on the whole mobile site thing.


Edit No need for the examples, just scanned a QR code from a major retailer in the UK and it did look very good, a lot better than previous ones I have seen! I can definitely see the potential now...im sold!

Last edited on 11th Oct 2012 at 06:33 AM. Reason: last paragraph
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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 02:28 PM   #29
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Aaron pretty much summed up my feelings about this in his response above.

Sure, for some businesses...and I would say probably national businesses mostly , I think Apps make sense. For a local small business, I think a mobile website is the way to go for new and existing clients...and sms is what you want to use if you want to engage them and keep in touch on a regular basis.

In two years of iphone ownership I have Apps from my insurance company and bank, ebay and amazon etc... installed, but don't think I'd ever bother to install apps from a local businesses I might think about once a month...if I ever did see one being offered.

Just my personal take, but hey - if you can show someone the value and sell them on a native app, go for it!

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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Originally Posted by wcroz99 View Post

Ok I own a local landscaping business in the UK and I would love to know how having an app would help me make more money. I have been thinking about apps but honestly cant think of a reason why someone would download it. If you have any ideas of how its going to make me money, I would love to know

Thanks
In your situation your company app could be a collection of conversion tools like meters to inches, litres to pints etc.

It could contain a couple of guestimation tools for giving an idea on how many bricks would be needed to build something of the user supplied dimensions or show how many rolls of turf are needed for x square meters of grass.

The devices accelerometer could be used to turn the device into a handy spririt level.

This app would include your business details and contanct info.

yes its not local and yes it could be VERY expensive but it would be an asset.

Business owners seem to not realise that websites and now apps are a business asset and should increase the value of their company.

Infact an app like I have just described would be perfect for a local builders merchants or hardware store. The app would have to be free to the user but income can be generated from in app ads and push notifications. Link it with facebook and twitter and your onto a winner.

Hmmm, let me fire up Eclipse...
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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 03:53 PM   #31
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Haha sweet, call me I'll hook you up.

Originally Posted by wcroz99 View Post

Ok ive just had a look at my analytics and 9% of my visitors are viewing my site via a mobile device, with a bounce rate of 68%. This is compared to a bounce rate of 52% for desktop visitors. So I suppose this could be better.

Do you have any examples of some of the best looking mobile sites? Admittedly ive only seen around 10 sites all of which have looked pretty poor. Perhaps if I see some good ones, then I could be sold on the whole mobile site thing.


Edit No need for the examples, just scanned a QR code from a major retailer in the UK and it did look very good, a lot better than previous ones I have seen! I can definitely see the potential now...im sold!

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Had made a prospecting video for another business, added some images from your website. Couldnt find your google place listing , so not 100% accurate




Originally Posted by wcroz99 View Post

Ok I own a local landscaping business in the UK and I would love to know how having an app would help me make more money. I have been thinking about apps but honestly cant think of a reason why someone would download it. If you have any ideas of how its going to make me money, I would love to know

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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 04:03 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Valdor Kiebach View Post

In your situation your company app could be a collection of conversion tools like meters to inches, litres to pints etc.

It could contain a couple of guestimation tools for giving an idea on how many bricks would be needed to build something of the user supplied dimensions or show how many rolls of turf are needed for x square meters of grass.

The devices accelerometer could be used to turn the device into a handy spririt level.

This app would include your business details and contanct info.

yes its not local and yes it could be VERY expensive but it would be an asset.

Business owners seem to not realise that websites and now apps are a business asset and should increase the value of their company.

Infact an app like I have just described would be perfect for a local builders merchants or hardware store. The app would have to be free to the user but income can be generated from in app ads and push notifications. Link it with facebook and twitter and your onto a winner.

Hmmm, let me fire up Eclipse...
When you say it could be very expensive. How expensive are we talking? This has given me quite a few ideas actually and which if done properly could save landscapers lots of time
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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 05:28 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by wcroz99 View Post

When you say it could be very expensive. How expensive are we talking? This has given me quite a few ideas actually and which if done properly could save landscapers lots of time
Cant really say but it could be in the thousands, it is one of those things where you need to contact developers and get a quote as it will depend on what you want.

I has a quick google and its all a case of 'contact us for a quote' so its hard to give an idea of cost.
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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 05:56 PM   #35
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One thing that hasn't been discussed is that there are big differences between the types of mobile sites that get built and sold.

It's perfectly possible to build jQuery Mobile sites that are very much like apps both in look and feel, responsiveness and functionality, but for a fraction of the cost of building and deploying an app.

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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 06:23 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by John Ayling View Post

One thing that hasn't been discussed is that there are big differences between the types of mobile sites that get built and sold.

It's perfectly possible to build jQuery Mobile sites that are very much like apps both in look and feel, responsiveness and functionality, but for a fraction of the cost of building and deploying an app.
Excellent point. Having jQuery, HTML5, and PHP at your disposal gives you a LOT of possibilities for highly interactive, "app-like" mobile sites.


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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 07:15 PM   #37
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Yeah we build the majority of ours using the jquery mobile framework, very app like with the right add ons.

Originally Posted by John Ayling View Post

One thing that hasn't been discussed is that there are big differences between the types of mobile sites that get built and sold.

It's perfectly possible to build jQuery Mobile sites that are very much like apps both in look and feel, responsiveness and functionality, but for a fraction of the cost of building and deploying an app.

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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 08:05 PM   #38
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Mobile sites are better in my opinion. If I'm at a hotel and looking for a good steakhouse I search with google. Then click the restaurant link in my mobile browser.

Two good things here for restaurants.
1. Mobile Adwords with google - control your market
2. Simple updating and ease or use. Not everyone downloads apps or want to take time to download specific ones for out of town restaurants they don't visit frequently.

If your desktop website syncs with your mobile site AND looks good then why do they need an app?
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Unread 11th Oct 2012, 08:48 PM   #39
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I'm a total newbie at the whole mobile website and mobile app game but I'm studying everything I can get my hands on...

I decided to go out and ask some of my business owner friends what they wanted??

I talked to my friend Mike today and he owns a liquor store in a small local community (around 40,000 people). He said he really wanted a way to announce local wine tasting's and deals to his loyal repeat customers.

I asked him about using a texting service (sms) and he said he had tried that and people were really uneasy about getting a lot of text.

I mentioned trying a Mobile App and using Push notifications on once a week or so basis... we talked about putting a QR code on the counter and calling it a VIP club.

He loved it and asked how he could sign up... I explained I was just doing research and he told me to get to work and get him an app.

I asked him what an App like that would be worth and he said he would gladly pay for an initail set up of around $200 dollars and 50 bucks a month.

He also said he would tell all his business owner friends about it and felt sure that they would jump on board.

True story ... so I was thinking of building him both a mobile website and a mobile app.

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Unread 12th Oct 2012, 12:55 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by philboy uk View Post

Had made a prospecting video for another business, added some images from your website. Couldnt find your google place listing , so not 100% accurate

Thats pretty cool actually, thanks for showing me that.

So is that an example of how an app could work or a mobile site?
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Unread 12th Oct 2012, 04:01 AM   #41
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I am a newbie but in my opinion is to do both (mobile sites + apps). So be prepare for .....both (a business owner may choose one or the other ....or both).
Now I'm looking on warrior forum for the best mobile sites builder and for the best apps maker (Amber ??? SkyBuilder???).
Please advice and thank you in advance.
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Unread 12th Oct 2012, 05:26 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by sumerunagnah View Post

Now I'm looking on warrior forum for the best mobile sites builder and for the best apps maker (Amber ??? SkyBuilder???).
Please advice and thank you in advance.
Me to... since I'm just starting out (in mobile) I don't won't to get in over my head (financially)..

I have another question... when you build a app for a business and they get customers signed up for "push notifications" where are those customer stored?? I use aweber for my list and only I have access to them... what about app customers??? does the platform like "skybuilder have access to my app customers?? can they push notify them to??

I worry that if I build an app for a business and the platform I use goes out of business then I would lose all the customers the business paid me to gather... that would be super bad..

thanks
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Unread 12th Oct 2012, 10:51 AM   #43
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My opinion is as an appointment setter for those of you selling mobile apps AND mobile websites. I've now been calling on this market for about 2-3 years and it's way different.

Mobile Apps:
- Help retain existing customers and keep them loyal, interested and up to date on coupons, events, etc.
- Are not effective in branding yourself or creating new business, people search for sites, not apps (unless they know what they are looking for).
- Are only effective to a smaller portion of customers (ages 16-45), this varies, but is something that should be considered based on your demographic. Older customers, even with a phone, do not do many "apps" (they search for a website).
- Are best as an add on, never as a first option for a client that has no site/no mobile site.
- Are not essential for every business owner
- Are not as easily navigated by the client (to update themselves)

Mobile Websites:
- Help garner new customers and keep existing ones
- Are essential to the technology we all use
- Are easily sold to customers that have a website only (it's an easy upgrade if they saw the importance of a normal website)
- Are easily navigated and updated by the client (some people don't want to pay you to maintain it)


As you can see there is a clear winner here, and yes there are exceptions. However, this isn't from someone selling both or either, I am generally unbiased. Except for this, I prefer dealing with those of you selling mobile websites, because it's MUCH easier for me to get you in front of a business owner for an appointment! More appointments means more business!

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Unread 12th Oct 2012, 11:49 AM   #44
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One thing that must be considered is the potential SEO value of a mobile site. I have read on several occasions recently that Google is creating a 'mobile' index. In the near future, the expectation is that the results Google returns for local searches will be different whether you are on a mobile device or a PC. The anticipation is that Google will start 'scoring' websites based on their level of mobile optimization which will be reflected in the results. So non-mobile optimized sites may get penalized when the requesting device is a mobile device.

Just something to consider going forward. I do know that I can search from my PC and search from my mobile phone and get different results at times. I do not know what is impacting that for sure. It could be IP location detection, browser history, cookies et al., but the SEO value of a mobile site is something that needs to be considered if not now, certainly in the near future.

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Unread 12th Oct 2012, 12:32 PM   #45
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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$200 for an app? Haha, if this is a native app youre going to struggle to make any cash selling them at that price, you won't even get it near the app store.

Its a much more complicated procedure than this thread will have you believe, you should be charging £3000-5000 as a starting point.

The price he said he is willing to pay you is cheap even for a mobile optimised site, never mind an app.

Originally Posted by marshallbailey View Post

I'm a total newbie at the whole mobile website and mobile app game but I'm studying everything I can get my hands on...

I decided to go out and ask some of my business owner friends what they wanted??

I talked to my friend Mike today and he owns a liquor store in a small local community (around 40,000 people). He said he really wanted a way to announce local wine tasting's and deals to his loyal repeat customers.

I asked him about using a texting service (sms) and he said he had tried that and people were really uneasy about getting a lot of text.

I mentioned trying a Mobile App and using Push notifications on once a week or so basis... we talked about putting a QR code on the counter and calling it a VIP club.

He loved it and asked how he could sign up... I explained I was just doing research and he told me to get to work and get him an app.

I asked him what an App like that would be worth and he said he would gladly pay for an initail set up of around $200 dollars and 50 bucks a month.

He also said he would tell all his business owner friends about it and felt sure that they would jump on board.

True story ... so I was thinking of building him both a mobile website and a mobile app.

Marshall

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Unread 12th Oct 2012, 01:33 PM   #46
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Originally Posted by massiveray View Post

$200 for an app? Haha, if this is a native app youre going to struggle to make any cash selling them at that price, you won't even get it near the app store.

Its a much more complicated procedure than this thread will have you believe, you should be charging £3000-5000 as a starting point.

The price he said he is willing to pay you is cheap even for a mobile optimised site, never mind an app.
If all he is doing is converting a mobile site into an app in order to use push notifications I do not see a problem with $200 for a set up fee. After all it will not take much time at all.

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Originally Posted by MoBuzz View Post

If all he is doing is converting a mobile site into an app in order to use push notifications I do not see a problem with $200 for a set up fee. After all it will not take much time at all.
It will be a problem if it's anything more than a web app. A native app for the iOS and android devices and $200 won't even touch the sides.

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Unread 12th Oct 2012, 01:57 PM   #48
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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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Originally Posted by massiveray View Post

It will be a problem if it's anything more than a web app. A native app for the iOS and android devices and $200 won't even touch the sides.
I disagree. Taking a web app and converting it to a native app is very quick and simple. There are many cloud based programs out there now that can do this at little or no cost and still give the ability to add PNs as well as geo targeted coupons. Really that is all a local business app needs.

Most programs do charge $19 to $49 a month for PNs so I would charge a little more than $50 a month but it can be done.

For android there is basically no approval process so you can actually go from web app to native app live on Google Play in an hour. I know because I have done this.

However for IOS it is a different story. The Apple store is becoming very strict and can take a little time for approval.

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Re: Why You are wasting customers time with "Mobile Sites"
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I think it comes down to the simple fact that more and more people are using their phones in place of their computers and this trend continues to grow. The mobile website or app when designed properly provides the best user experience. And that my friend is the difference between success and failure. Making money and or lossing money. (smile)

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Unread 12th Oct 2012, 02:32 PM   #50
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Fair play, you can pump out apps like that in the hundreds each day if that's what you Want to do, I'm not saying it can't be done at that price, I'm saying it shouldn't.

Personally I like mine with a little more quality about them. Unique, built for my clients and not based on some shitty online conversion program that is bound to generate tons of useless and slow code.

I don't know if this is actually the case as I have never used the cloud programs, I'm just assuming they're crap.

If your app don't work on iOS it ain't worth shit, in my opinion.

In all honesty though i don't sell a whole lot of apps, I prefer my developers to work on other more profitable projects.

Originally Posted by MoBuzz View Post

I disagree. Taking a web app and converting it to a native app is very quick and simple. There are many cloud based programs out there now that can do this at little or no cost and still give the ability to add PNs as well as geo targeted coupons. Really that is all a local business app needs.

Most programs do charge $19 to $49 a month for PNs so I would charge a little more than $50 a month but it can be done.

For android there is basically no approval process so you can actually go from web app to native app live on Google Play in an hour. I know because I have done this.

However for IOS it is a different story. The Apple store is becoming very strict and can take a little time for approval.

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