Do SMS Providers (like Lime, Avid and Trumpia) need to license a patent or get sued?

52 replies
Ok, so this is third party so take it with a grain of salt, but I wanted to know if anyone else has head about this.

A fellow marketer told me he was in on a webinar put on by Avid and they were saying something new has happened in the SMS industry. Apparently someone had the smarts to patent certain aspects of SMS and now has decided to make big bucks by licensing that patent. All SMS providers must pay some unbelievable amount, like hundreds of thousands, to get the rights to keep doing SMS. Avid said they paid the fee and said that any prospective reseller should check to see if their potential provider has licensed the patent as well. They stated that the patent owner has started suing companies that are not paying the license fee.

I can't imagine a company like Avid making this up as a marketing ploy.

Anyone else heard of this?

Thanks.
#avid #license #lime #patent #providers #sms #sued #trumpia
  • good post.

    I received a document on this, from avid mobile.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Solem
    I haven't heard of this myself, but would think every mobile news outlet and sms provider would be commenting if this was now a concern for them.

    If it is true, I would hope some documentation was provided by Avid to show that this is a legitimate concern, otherwise I can see how this could be seen as a marketing ploy.

    If anyone can share some links with more details that would be great!
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  • Profile picture of the author ritebiz
    I visited the USPTO (US Patent and Trademark Office) website and did a search on several of the patent numbers listed and they are there as patents of Richard Helferich. The patents do exist and does affect what mobile and social media marketers would do...send a URL within an sms text message, mms and in social media posts.

    I was on the Avid Mobile call and did some research and I do not believe that this is a marketing ploy at all. Check out this blog I found on my search for some in-depth info regarding the patent infringement lawsuits - doesn't speak so nicely about Mr. Helferich but companies are being sued for using the technology without buying a license to use it. Patent Trademark Infringement Litigation: Patent Litigation | "Patent lawsuits becoming a scourge"

    Hope this helps.
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    • Profile picture of the author ConradDeas
      whoa this seems like big news. I send sms with links in it every week. Does this apply if it's only for commercial use? And what is the social media post part about. Does that mean you can't put links in your social media posts? Probably 80+% of social media users post links.

      Originally Posted by ritebiz View Post

      I visited the USPTO (US Patent and Trademark Office) website and did a search on several of the patent numbers listed and they are there as patents of Richard Helferich. The patents do exist and does affect what mobile and social media marketers would do...send a URL within an sms text message, mms and in social media posts.

      I was on the Avid Mobile call and did some research and I do not believe that this is a marketing ploy at all. Check out this blog I found on my search for some in-depth info regarding the patent infringement lawsuits - doesn't speak so nicely about Mr. Helferich but companies are being sued for using the technology without buying a license to use it. Patent Trademark Infringement Litigation: Patent Litigation | "Patent lawsuits becoming a scourge"

      Hope this helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Solem
    Thanks for the details - it appears mr Helfrich there has made quite a killing with his patents, getting all those companies to fork over 3/4 of a million dollars to settle with him, but I'm glad to see some fighting it as it seems silly that someone can patent the idea of sending a url via a sms message. Too bad he didn't get a patent on sending links through email messages!
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    I'm with Mr. H. It doesn't seem silly at all, to me. I bet it didn't
    seem silly back before Mr. H. developed the technology to make it
    possible.

    He created it... he deserves to bank it.
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    • Profile picture of the author thehypnoguy
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      I'm with Mr. H. It doesn't seem silly at all, to me. I bet it didn't
      seem silly back before Mr. H. developed the technology to make it
      possible.

      He created it... he deserves to bank it.
      He didn't create squate. He said let a url link be inserted into a message sent over cell phones. Yeah I can make a killing with this. It would be expected since that is how the internet works and cell technology is going over a network. It would an obvious order of things. If I were the cell technology people I would go after him for a fee of sending his links over their system. How many phone companies are there

      Martin
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      • Profile picture of the author elkiehound
        People can debate if this is trolling or patent rights, the bottom line is the courts, so far, have been in his favor.

        So, now SMS providers, can either:

        1. Proactively pay him up front, 750K
        2. Pay 750K to settle pending action.
        3. Fight him in court like many have done.
        4. Ride out the storm and hope that others may get it overturned.

        I cannot imagine these small SMS providers proactively writing a check for 750K just for a marketing advantage.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by thehypnoguy View Post

        He didn't create squate. He said let a url link be inserted into a message sent over cell phones. Yeah I can make a killing with this. It would be expected since that is how the internet works and cell technology is going over a network. It would an obvious order of things. If I were the cell technology people I would go after him for a fee of sending his links over their system. How many phone companies are there

        Martin
        And yet he was granted an enforceable patent... Oh... that land
        your home sits on. You didn't do squat to create that. I should be
        able to use it however and whenever I want.

        Whether you like it or not he owns it... period. And that still means
        something in this country.
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    • Profile picture of the author Avalonesa
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      I'm with Mr. H. It doesn't seem silly at all, to me. I bet it didn't
      seem silly back before Mr. H. developed the technology to make it
      possible.

      He created it... he deserves to bank it.
      Thats ridiculous. He didn't develop the technology to make it possible. Its like the people who came up with the idea of the internet trying to sue everyone with an internet connection. Absurd.
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  • I didn't see where Mr. H actually developed the technology, did I miss it? Is he going to go after Verizon, AT&T, etc..?

    I didn't see any other SMS providers on that list. Does that mean Avid is the only one currently with it?

    If you are currently a Lime, Trumpia, or other reseller what do you do? Wait and see? This suddenly makes push notifications more attractive, unless Mr. H has a patent on those as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by mobilemarketer2012 View Post

      I didn't see where Mr. H actually developed the technology, did I miss it? Is he going to go after Verizon, AT&T, etc..?
      Whether he developed it or bought it from whoever did is irrelevant.

      The point is someone developed the technical process for sending
      links via SMS and Mr. H now owns the patent on the process.

      I don't know why this would be hard to understand. Why would anyone
      think he isn't entitled to damages from those who infringed his patent rights?

      If someone resold your $7 WSO without permission you'd scream bloody
      murder. This guy has real money at stake...
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      • Profile picture of the author Argynon
        I wonder if this also applies to push notifications done by web apps. If so, this guy could sue the whole world
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Solem
    This guy just seems to be the textbook definition of a "Patent Troll" to me.
    Patent troll "companies have no interest in using the patents... but instead hope to reap large sums of money from the lawsuits themselves."
    ...and I'm glad the New York Times and others are fighting back instead of paying him because it's easier and cheaper than going to court to fight this.

    Seems more like a case of legal extortion than someone who actually invented something with plans to produce and profit from their invention, and according to the following TED talk, it's costing our economy billions and we're all paying the price for this Drew Curtis: How I beat a patent troll | Video on TED.com

    In any event, unless he (or someone else) holds a patent for the idea of sending a promotional message via sms too, it appears that one would be safe if you're not sending texts that direct people to your website or elsewhere via a link within the text message.
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    • Profile picture of the author elkiehound
      Agreed, however aren't some platforms build around URL's in the message for sending promotions and coupons ?

      Do they all now have to pony up $750K to this person ?
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    What some call a patent troll I call a guy with property rights.
    What some call legal extortion I call protecting those rights.

    Does someone have to do what other people like in order to
    have the right to the use of... or not use at all... his own property?

    Thinking like this is why this country is going to hell fast... no
    respect for the rights of others.

    If these other guys are so smart and so concerned for society
    let them invent a different way to do the same thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author elkiehound
    So, do you think the other SMS resellers will follow same path as Avid and get the license ?
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    • Originally Posted by elkiehound View Post

      So, do you think the other SMS resellers will follow same path as Avid and get the license ?

      had a webinar with Lime yesterday.

      spoke about it.

      Opinion seemed balanced.

      pay nothing, because so many big players, the courts have to arrange something.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

        had a webinar with Lime yesterday.

        spoke about it.

        Opinion seemed balanced.

        pay nothing, because so many big players, the courts have to arrange something.
        Or the courts will uphold the guy's patent and Lime will be out of the game.

        Doesn't seem balanced to me.
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        • Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

          Or the courts will uphold the guy's patent and Lime will be out of the game.

          Doesn't seem balanced to me.

          everybody out of the game then?

          the patent holder monopolizes mobile communications.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steve Solem
            Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

            everybody out of the game then?

            the patent holder monopolizes mobile communications.
            I think he'd have to actually have it use it in order to monopolize anything. As of now he seems content to just try to squeeze as much money from out of as many companies as possible.
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            • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
              Originally Posted by Steve Solem View Post

              I think he'd have to actually have it use it in order to monopolize anything. As of now he seems content to just try to squeeze as much money from out of as many companies as possible.
              Do you have a source for that belief?
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          • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
            Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

            everybody out of the game then?

            the patent holder monopolizes mobile communications.
            No... they can buy a license. To say he can monopolize
            mobile communications is overstating it a bit, don't you think?
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  • Profile picture of the author Sharpay
    Hey. It was my idea to make sales to earn profit.

    Anyone who makes a sale and earns a profit owes me a portion. I'm suing you all right now because this shit is patented by me!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by Sharpay View Post

      Hey. It was my idea to make sales to earn profit.

      Anyone who makes a sale and earns a profit owes me a portion. I'm suing you all right now because this shit is patented by me!!!
      Show me your valid patent and I'll pay up.
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      If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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  • Profile picture of the author zoro
    It's a load of Crap!.
    In patent terms there is a thing called "Prior Art". What that means is: If it has been known or done by someone already you can't patent it.
    Go look up patent "Prior Art".
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by zoro View Post

      It's a load of Crap!.
      In patent terms there is a thing called "Prior Art". What that means is: If it has been known or done by someone already you can't patent it.
      Go look up patent "Prior Art".
      I'm pretty sure the folks at the U.S. Patent office know all about that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gladiator
    it was my idea to start the warrior forum LOL where is my money! LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Whether right or wrong, this guy is making bank.
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  • Profile picture of the author KaylaB
    Patent trolls for sure. Helferich has never created any product or technology with their patents. They merely register a patent so that they can charge companies exorbitant fees for their use or sue them. This is their business model. Patenting a link in an text message? Seriously - this got a patent? Large companies have paid up NOT because of the validity of the patent, but because of the cost to fight Helferich in court.

    Well The New York Times is taking them to court AND questioning the validity of this patent. I am hoping reason prevails.

    New York Times v Helferich in SMS patent case
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by KaylaB View Post

      Patent trolls for sure. Helferich has never created any product or technology with their patents. They merely register a patent so that they can charge companies exorbitant fees for their use or sue them. This is their business model. Patenting a link in an text message? Seriously - this got a patent? Large companies have paid up NOT because of the validity of the patent, but because of the cost to fight Helferich in court.

      Well The New York Times is taking them to court AND questioning the validity of this patent. I am hoping reason prevails.

      New York Times v Helferich in SMS patent case
      I hope he buries the NY Times. If someone violated their
      copyright they'd be all over it.

      I really have to say I'm amazed that people who call themselves
      Warriors are so sanctimonious about thinking they should just have
      the right to walk all over someone else's property rights.

      I don't care if you like his business model or not... hell, millions
      of people don't like the business model of most internet marketers.
      The fact is he has a legal right to the property and many of you
      are whining about that.

      unbelievable..

      <shakes head in disgust>
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  • Profile picture of the author networkempire
    So true. I agree with Tsnyder on this. Yes, that guy has legal rights on his property..
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  • Profile picture of the author KaylaB
    I don't care if you like his business model or not... hell, millions
    of people don't like the business model of most internet marketers.
    The fact is he has a legal right to the property and many of you
    are whining about that.

    unbelievable..

    <shakes head in disgust>
    Because something is "legal" does not make it moral. Also, I am sure I know a lot more about the digital rights issue, including this case, than you do.

    So please, stay up there on your sanctimonious high horse. I prefer to live in the real world.
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    • Profile picture of the author elkiehound
      And right now, it appears the real world is supporting the patent.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by KaylaB View Post

      Because something is "legal" does not make it moral. Also, I am sure I know a lot more about the digital rights issue, including this case, than you do.

      So please, stay up there on your sanctimonious high horse. I prefer to live in the real world.
      Spare me the self righteous morality... where's the morality
      in trying to deny someone else's rights simply because they
      were smart enough to do something that... apparently... the
      rest of the world didn't figure out first.

      I doubt there is anything you know... or could learn... that I
      didn't already know 20 years ago.
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  • Profile picture of the author KaylaB
    And right now, it appears the real world is supporting the patent.
    This patent - which should never have been granted - is being tested in court. So we shall see.
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    • Profile picture of the author elkiehound
      So, if it gets determined that the patent is not valid, do all those, like AvidMobile get their 750K back ?
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  • Profile picture of the author thehypnoguy
    It is impossible to regulate and police the actions of 7 Billion people. This is the sort of Patent that isn't going to stand up. Why, well lets take the famous example of Kleenex. Kleenex was a brand name of one brand of facial tissues. If someone asks me to hand them a Kleenex I don't respond with I don't have any of that brand but here try these. I pick up the nearest box of generic facial tissue and hand that box to them. Why, because they weren't asking for specifically a box of Kleenex brand facial tissue they were simply asking for a facial tissue and by use today we all associate the word Kleenex with any box of facial tissue.

    Now what does that have to do with this licensing issue. You can't regulate people using their Mobile Devices and the Functionality thereof. If I can send a clickable link in my text message to someone I know also has a Smart Phone then I won't even think twice about it. Now consider we are in the SMS market place which is the only reason we are talking about this at all.

    Average Joe Smart Phone user doesn't know or care about this and that is where lies the rub. In order to maintain a patent one is required to defend your patent against all violations. Failure to completely defend your patent will result in your patent becoming void. In the same way Kleenex could not defend its Trademark and Kleenex became a part of our standard lexicon this patent will become, and I argue has become, voided by lack of defending.

    The real error in all this is that if this man truly patented sending url through SMS text messages then the true source of suit would be the carriers or even more accurately those who make the mobile devices. Mobile Device manufacturers should have to pay a license to this man or disable the ability for these links to be sent or received on their devices. That would truly be defending ones patent. These other suits are patent trolling and not a true representation of what patents are about.

    It clearly is time to overhaul the patent system as these types of patents should never be issued or upheld in the firts place.

    Martin
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  • Profile picture of the author bobmcalister
    so , some of you guys are resellers for these companies? or users yourselves ? would appreciate any feedback on this...thanks

    interesting to say the least. obviously , this guy has some good attorneys and research people to be able to patent a 'procedure' that is used by millions a day .
    several big time trademarks ( like the walking fingers ) were never trademarked, and like the Kleenex, lose their uniqueness and copy rights , I think.

    anyway, wish yall were yelling at me instead of that guy ...I would smile and tell you to get your own attorneys ..lol
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  • Profile picture of the author NewParadigm
    First-to-file patent system arrives March 16, 2013 - Lexology

    First-to-file patent system arrives March 16, 2013
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    In a moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing. The worst thing you can do is nothing. ~ Theodore Roosevelt

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  • Profile picture of the author xlfutur1
    I agree with thehypnoguy that eventually this patent is not going to stand up. There will be a judge somewhere that will rule against a patent like this (IMHO).

    An URL in an SMS will only work on a smart phone that has a browser and is connected to the internet. So is it this guy's patent that makes it possible to go to a link in an SMS message, OR the browser and internet connection? It won't work without the latter, patent or no patent.

    I will give the guy credit to have the foresight to patent something that would eventually be widely used. When he filed this patent it probably was not something anyone even thought about.

    The bottom line is that had someone patented an http:// protocol link back in the late 80s, a time when no one had even heard of the internet, you can only imagine how wealthy they would be if they then shook down every company and person that began to use hyperlinks on their websites in the 90s.

    I have a feeling this guy is going to ride this out to make millions, and then retire to Tahiti when it all drys up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vic Smith
    I am going to just ride on the SMS providers and let them take the heat.
    That includes Twillio.

    What do you think of that approach?

    Let me go push out my sms coupons now linking to a big juicy steak.

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  • Profile picture of the author fsonic
    One of the many reasons we need to eliminate patents. If we were to eliminate patents our nation could become great again in terms of innovation. It is one of the several things that truly inhibits our growth. Truly we should be able to take ideas and improve upon them without worry about "paying up."
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  • Profile picture of the author The Beast
    Looks like Helfrich lost in court. NY Times, CBS Escape Mobile Alert Patent Suits - Law360

    NY Times, CBS Escape Mobile Alert Patent Suits

    Share us on:TwitterFacebookLinkedInBy Matthew Heller 0 Comments

    Law360, New York (August 14, 2013, 7:34 PM ET) -- An Illinois federal judge on Wednesday tossed five suits alleging companies including the New York Times Co. and CBS Corp. infringed Helferich Patent Licensing LLC patents by sending breaking news text messages to mobile phones, ruling the patents are exhausted when a manufacturer sells a phone to the consumer.

    U.S. District Judge John W. Darrah rejected the patent licensing company's argument that the defense of patent exhaustion did not apply to its infringement allegations because it only licensed the “handset” claims of its patented inventions to...
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    • Nice to hear, that's for the update Beast.

      Too many scumbags try to make money without really working for it.

      What I'd like to see now is if companies like Avid who put up the $750,000 can sue this guy to get their money back.

      Thanks again.




      Originally Posted by The Beast View Post

      Looks like Helfrich lost in court. NY Times, CBS Escape Mobile Alert Patent Suits - Law360

      NY Times, CBS Escape Mobile Alert Patent Suits

      Share us on:TwitterFacebookLinkedInBy Matthew Heller 0 Comments

      Law360, New York (August 14, 2013, 7:34 PM ET) -- An Illinois federal judge on Wednesday tossed five suits alleging companies including the New York Times Co. and CBS Corp. infringed Helferich Patent Licensing LLC patents by sending breaking news text messages to mobile phones, ruling the patents are exhausted when a manufacturer sells a phone to the consumer.

      U.S. District Judge John W. Darrah rejected the patent licensing company's argument that the defense of patent exhaustion did not apply to its infringement allegations because it only licensed the "handset" claims of its patented inventions to...
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      • Profile picture of the author SpeedyeProducts
        Originally Posted by mobilemarketer2012 View Post

        Nice to hear, that's for the update Beast.

        Too many scumbags try to make money without really working for it.

        What I'd like to see now is if companies like Avid who put up the $750,000 can sue this guy to get their money back.

        Thanks again.
        Me thinks " Helferich " will freeze over before people will see any of 750K back.

        People have been marketing that they are LEGAL and saying all others are not when http:// was used in an SMS message. They will now have to play nicely with others and I may
        point out on our marketing that THEY were WRONG.

        Hmmm....note to self....email outsourcers for NEW marketing material ..

        Ok . email sent...must apologize..... 1st.. removing the http:// and sending even a bit.ly link and waaahhlaaah... carriers had b-slapped that anyway... It works without htp:// ....
        Hope someone didn't patent and license a particular finger I might have just used [by accident of course]
        on that one. To have this type of 'lawyer" researched squatters rights on something such as what Helferich tried to pull off was asinine and companies that said they paid $750K and WERE the ONLY LEGALLY LICENSED companies is / was what? ......help me out here?....I am out of polite words to use.....
        But that finger was used first in my direction and I don't think that was played very well.

        Anyhow, I have real work to do. I am working on a FREE Mobile App that will
        make anyone who uses it pay me 350K per use if and ONLY when you use a butter knife to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich while using my app.
        [Note to self again.....I agree, 750k is just too much and raised eyebrows but 350k license....yeah that's the ticket ]

        BTW....I know what you all are thinking.....you all will try to re-engineer my App..... It snaps a photo of you at random and WILL catch you eating that sandwich with knife nearby with technology that is copyrighted and utilities patented.... Believe me.....You don't even want to go there [without a license that is]......
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  • Profile picture of the author TrumpiaTim
    Great news for all SMS mobile marketing providers!
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    Trumpia: The Most Completed SMS Text Messaging Software & API Solution.
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  • Good to see that you can still get some justice in the US!
    This patent really was ridiculous..
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