What about the spam???

9 years ago

I also just found another broken part of the forum. It appears that you can't link to posts anymore, it takes you to the top of the thread!

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ThomM

9 years ago

I just tried to report a new thread here in the OT and the message was I didn't have permission to access that.
Usually when that happens it's because they're doing some back end work.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

I just tried to report a new thread here in the OT and the message was I didn't have permission to access that.
Usually when that happens it's because they're doing some back end work.

Thom, that happens when you report a thread that was just deleted while you were reporting it.

As for me, the link to go to a post still works for me. Regarding the spam, the moderators have been highly responsive to my reports and I haven't noticed anything that I report not being deleted. I'm not seeing self promotion and link dropping being allowed if reported.

All I see is a real degradation in the quality of conversations. I read one interview where Barrie said that the WF had a great membership (ideal, I think he used), with the majority of the forum being from the US (I don't want to make this sound insulting), but that's what he said.

Well, that was then, this is now. Due to the "rocket scientists" (<<< their words) that they hire for Growth Hacking, and according to Alexa (probably not completely accurate, but still an indication of where things are going), India has rapidly caught up. In addition, it appears that people are leaving (most likely the Americans that he thought were so "ideal"). That's obvious when you actually read some threads and just see all these crap one liners that mean nothing and add nothing of value to the conversation from people who just registered ... but none from people who you have long liked and respected and enjoyed having conversations with. It is a real turn off, to me at least.

Google traffic has taken a nose dive also. Probably has something to do with their neverending "tweaking" of this and fiddling with that.

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salegurus

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Thom, that happens when you report a thread that was just deleted while you were reporting it.

As for me, the link to go to a post still works for me. Regarding the spam, the moderators have been highly responsive to my reports and I haven't noticed anything that I report not being deleted. I'm not seeing self promotion and link dropping being allowed if reported.

All I see is a real degradation in the quality of conversations. I read one interview where Barrie said that the WF had a great membership (ideal, I think he used), with the majority of the forum being from the US (I don't want to make this sound insulting), but that's what he said.

Well, that was then, this is now. Due to the "rocket scientists" (<<< their words) that they hire for Growth Hacking, and according to Alexa (probably not completely accurate, but still an indication of where things are going), India has rapidly caught up. In addition, it appears that people are leaving (most likely the Americans that he thought were so "ideal"). That's obvious when you actually read some threads and just see all these crap one liners that mean nothing and add nothing of value to the conversation from people who just registered ... but none from people who you have long liked and respected and enjoyed having conversations with. It is a real turn off, to me at least.

Google traffic has taken a nose dive also. Probably has something to do with their never ending "tweaking" of this and fiddling with that.

Well Said Suzanne, we don't always agree but i think you hit the nail on the head...

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Cali16

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

All I see is a real degradation in the quality of conversations.

...That's obvious when you actually read some threads and just see all these crap one liners that mean nothing and add nothing of value to the conversation from people who just registered ... but none from people who you have long liked and respected and enjoyed having conversations with. It is a real turn off, to me at least.

I agree, Suzanne. Every time I venture into the Main Discussion Forum there is so much of the above going on that it's usually pointless to even get involved. The endless one-liners get really old, and definitely seem more prevalent than ever.

Also, it's frustrating to see so many responses from a lot of newer members who think they know what they're talking about but clearly don't (like the member who said Google Sniper was owned by (or created by) Google....um, okay!).

I think, overall, the spam issues are the least of the current problems. The mods are doing a good job of removing those pretty quickly. But the rest is a bigger, more insidious issue.

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Paul Myers 9 years ago

Suzanne,

The Indian traffic doesn't surprise me. They've always been very high in the list, and they're some of our most helpful contributors. Given that India makes up about a 6th of the population of the world and has an educated middle class that's roughly equal to the entire population of the US, that number is about right anyway.

The "barely speak English" posts are higher than usual, but that's a bit more complicated problem than just looking at traffic sources. Lots of small decisions involved, and none of them are things you want to do unless you have to.

You might be surprised, BTW, at how much of the really bad English posting comes from Dhaka, Hanoi, and Colombo. The UAE and Algeria are moving up the list, too. [Edited to add: Pakistan is also high on the list of sources for these. Very high.]

The precipitous drop in Google traffic appears to coincide with the renaming of some forum sections, which caused the loss of thousands of indexed pages from their database. At the time, I'd hoped that would be enough of a wake up call that it would get them to ask, or at least dig a bit, before tinkering with the system itself. I didn't see anything to indicate that, though.

Those pages should end up being indexed again, so that's recoverable. The more significant issue, as I see it, is the effect of the current posting style on future indexed pages. Thread titles like "Does Google can read this?" won't attract a lot of clicks.

The search problem is another symptom of tinkering, but they may have been trying to fix what they saw as earlier tinkering and just broke something else in the process. If so, I'd write that off to not communicating.

Some other interesting correlations in those stats, too, but I'd hesitate to label them as causes at this point.

Paul
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ForumGuru Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by joseph7384

I also just found another broken part of the forum. It appears that you can't link to posts anymore, it takes you to the top of the thread!

Yeah, that feature has been broken for a few days now. Bummer, I thought Freelancer had a crack team that was going to shore up the forum infrastructure --> but that does not seem to be the case as the search has been down one way or another for months.

Cheers

-don
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Dennis Gaskill

9 years ago

Originally Posted by joseph7384

I also just found another broken part of the forum. It appears that you can't link to posts anymore, it takes you to the top of the thread!

I think that's what happens when you link to a post that has been deleted. Try this link:

Who is this guy?

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joseph7384

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

I think that's what happens when you link to a post that has been deleted. This this link:

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9623776

Nope, the post is in fact deleted now but I always test things before putting them out in public and it was doing that when the post was still there.

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Dennis Gaskill

9 years ago

Originally Posted by joseph7384

Nope, the post is in fact deleted now but I always test things before putting them out in public and it was doing that when the post was still there.

Maybe it was a fluke because the link in my post goes to a specific post, not the top of the thread. How did you test it, using the "preview post" feature?

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joseph7384

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Maybe it was a fluke because the link in my post goes to a specific post, not the top of the thread. How did you test it, using the "preview post" feature?

I tested it by clicking on the link that I provided in the OP of this thread.

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Kay King 9 years ago

I don't double check to see if what I reported was deleted - unless it's a bad violation. If I report a violation - my part is done and then it's up to mods to decide.

I have been surprised lately to see two threads where the thread obviously was started to promote the person's link or signature. I reported both and both were 'amended' but not removed. The links in the thread were removed in one case and the signature changed in another. It's a judgment call by the mods and that's what they are paid to do. That tells me there are some differences we need to get used to.
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Mark Singletary

9 years ago

Give 'em a chance. They are learning, not perfect, and trying to do what is right. Having said that I know it's awfully frustrating - especially for those that care about the forum over and above pimping their signature.

I agree with Kay. There are differences to get used to. That doesn't mean the old way was better than the new way or vice versa. It just means that there are differences to get used to.

Mark

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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

It's a judgment call by the mods and that's what they are paid to do. That tells me there are some differences we need to get used to.

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

I agree with Kay. There are differences to get used to. That doesn't mean the old way was better than the new way or vice versa. It just means that there are differences to get used to.

Mark

Well, one of the differences is clearly the internet marketing and/or marketing savvy of the old guard compared to some of the new. Here is a portion of one of the new mod's first post to the forum back in July.

Hi Warriors!

I am a newbie in the internet marketing and would like to hear some awesome advices from expert people like you...

I am sure he is a great guy and all but obviously internet marketing is not his expertise.Yep, looks like we may have new way alright...

Cheers

-don

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JacobABurt

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Give 'em a chance. They are learning, not perfect, and trying to do what is right. Having said that I know it's awfully frustrating - especially for those that care about the forum over and above pimping their signature.

I agree with Kay. There are differences to get used to. That doesn't mean the old way was better than the new way or vice versa. It just means that there are differences to get used to.

Mark

Well said Mark i completely agree with your thoughts.

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joseph7384

9 years ago

This is a test!

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...l#/post9630743

I think I broke something because it doesn't even parse the links anymore.

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joseph7384

9 years ago

You got to be kidding me! spam that quotes posts.

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salegurus

9 years ago

I don't know, they seem to be extremely lenient (Maybe a good thing) with offenders.
As far as spam, advertising etc check this one:http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9631747
Its been up for 6 hours ???

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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

I think that's what happens when you link to a post that has been deleted. Try this link:

Who is this guy?

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Maybe it was a fluke because the link in my post goes to a specific post, not the top of the thread. How did you test it, using the "preview post" feature?

It's still broken for me just like it was the other day. I posted links to specific replies on a couple of posts and they both took me to the top of the thread just like the link I posted below is.

Test link:

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...l#/post9631305

That should be taking us to Steve's post #15 but it's taking me to the top of the thread.

Cheers

-don

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Dennis Gaskill

9 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

It's still broken for me just like it was the other day. I posted links to specific replies on a couple of posts and they both took me to the top of the thread just like the link I posted below is.

Test link:

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...l#/post9631305

That should be taking us to Steve's post #15 but it's taking me to the top of the thread.

Cheers

-don

My link worked. Let's try it again with yours. Steve's post was apparently deleted though, or he deleted it, because post #15 is Wags. Try this...

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9631305

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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

My link worked. Let's try it again with yours. Steve's post was apparently deleted though, or he deleted it, because post #15 is Wags. Try this...

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9631305

Your link is taking me to the top of the page just like mine. Steven = Steve = Wags --> That's the post I linked.

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

And my link in the post above worked, too. Here's how I'm posting links that work:

I right-click the post number for the link I want to link to and choose "copy shortcut" from the right-click menu. I go to the Quick Reply box, click the link icon, and paste in the link.

That's it.

Are you guys just pasting the link into the reply box without using the link button?

I never had to use the link button in the past to place URLs to specific replies...but here goes.

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9631305

Still taking me to the top of the page...

Cheers

-don

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Mark Singletary

9 years ago

Here is my latest speculation. I think Allen started the most recent pay to post fee to cut down on the spam. Then, because he was in or about to be in a selling mood he realized that while spam went down drastically, user numbers and posts did too which may not be the right direction for a sale. So he took the fee away.

Likewise, FL may want to stay away from the Viagra type spam while allowing blatant self promotion as long as it is somewhat related to online business in an effort to show growth in users and posts to shareholders and advertisers. This may be one reason for the changing of the mod guard -- standards are completely different than before.

Again just speculation but that is all we have to go on without definitive answers.

Mark

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Dennis Gaskill

9 years ago

And my link in the post above worked, too. Here's how I'm posting links that work:

I right-click the post number for the link I want to link to and choose "copy shortcut" from the right-click menu. I go to the Quick Reply box, click the link icon, and paste in the link.

That's it.

Are you guys just pasting the link into the reply box without using the link button?

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Paul Myers

9 years ago

Mark,

Stockholders care about returns, and Matt Barrie owns, I believe, 80-some percent of FL stock. He gets to make those decisions, and he was very clear in interviews about wanting to better monetize the forum.

Whether they're going to figure out how to do that without killing the goose is an as yet unanswered question.

Advertisers don't care about post counts and the like. They care about conversions. They benefit more from visitors that fit their target demographic, rather than random and untargeted views.

I suspect that advertisers like Interserver, who have had ads running for a while and use retargeting to stay in the visitors' minds, are the ones who'll find the best ROI. It's a different model than most of the old ads here. Much more long-term and business-like.

If post quality drops enough that the serious people stop visiting, or leave shortly after finding the place, the return for those kinds of advertisers goes down. Post quality benefits them much more than quantity.

That part is on Alaister and the mods. They can't control what's posted on a day to day basis, but they can choose to steer things one way or another in the long term by what they allow to stay.

The tech stuff is annoying, but most of what's broken didn't exist for the first 11 years of the forum's existence, and isn't needed to make things grow. Good content covers a multitude of feature deficits.

The linking directly to posts is a whole other problem. If that doesn't work, it would slow the moderation process down a LOT That's actually a big deal.

Paul

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Paul Myers

9 years ago

Might be a browser issue. Dennis' link took me to Steven's post, rather than the top of the page. That said, some of the other examples, and a few links outside this thread, have left me at the top of the page, which suggests it might be an issue with how they're ending up formatted.

Weird.

Paul

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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Might be a browser issue. Dennis' link to me to Steven's post, rather than the top of the page. That said, some of the other examples, and a few links outside this thread, have left me at the top of the page, which suggests it might be an issue with how they're ending up formatted.

Weird.

Paul

Yeah, that's what I've been playing with. Chrome, Firefox and IE all take me to the top of the page when I don't use the link button. Firefox & IE (but not Chrome) do take me to the specific post when when I use the link button.

Weird for sure...in the past I did not need to use the insert link button with Chrome but lately it does not matter how the link is posted --> Chrome always takes me to the top of the page.

Cheers

-don

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Dennis Gaskill

9 years ago

Oh come on, guys . . . browsers are always perfect and never at fault.

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Paul Myers

9 years ago

Are you on a Mac, Don? I have this problem on the iPad all the time, and not just here. I should check it on the Mac.

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ForumGuru Banned 9 years ago

I should be, but I'm not. I am using the same PC rig I've been using for past couple of years.
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Paul Myers

9 years ago

Okay. Not that, then.

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about when you say "link button." I'm just clicking on the link, and get the same result whether I do that or use the right mouse button.

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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about when you say "link button." I'm just clicking on the link, and get the same result whether I do that or use the right mouse button.

We are talking about using the link icon in the post box to insert the link instead of dropping the link in bare.

Cheers

-don

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Cali16 9 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

We are talking about using the link icon in the post box to insert the link instead of dropping the link in bare.

Cheers

-don

Color me confused, but where is this link button? I seem to be missing it but maybe I'm just not looking in the right place...
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- ForumGuru Banned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Cali16
  
  Color me confused, but where is this link button? I seem to be missing it but maybe I'm just not looking in the right place...
  
  You can't miss it! It's at the top the "Post Quick Reply" input box just below this post --> and the reply input post box that comes up when you click on the big grey Quick Reply" button.
  
  It's the button with the yellow arrow pointing to it. Hover over the tiny world with the chain link on the bottom and then click it. When you hover over it you should see "insert link" link text pop up.
  
  Cheers
  
  -don
  
  Thanks
  
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  Cali16 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ForumGuru
  
  It's the button with the yellow arrow pointing to it.
  
  Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm not seeing that whole bar of icons anywhere...
  
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  ForumGuru Banned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Cali16
  
  Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm not seeing that whole bar of icons anywhere...
  
  No trouble at all but that seems weird! What do you see at the top of the box where you type your posts? Can you shoot a screenshot?
  
  Cheers
  
  -don
  
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  Cali16 9 years ago
  
  Well, this is embarrassing... I took a screen shot, but not sure which code to use to post it...
  
  Basically, I just see a big blank box just below "Message:" if that helps. But that's it. Maybe I need to enable something?
  
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Paul Myers

9 years ago

Ah. Got it. Thanks.

I never use that except when I'm linking a text word or phrase, and I don't "drag and drop" the links. I just copy it and paste it in wherever. Until right now, I didn't even know you could drag a link into a post that way.

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Dennis Gaskill

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Ah. Got it. Thanks.

I never use that except when I'm linking a text word or phrase, and I don't "drag and drop" the links. I just copy it and paste it in wherever. Until right now, I didn't even know you could drag a link into a post that way.

I guess you really can teach an old dog new tricks.

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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Ah. Got it. Thanks.

I never use that except when I'm linking a text word or phrase, and I don't "drag and drop" the links. I just copy it and paste it in wherever. Until right now, I didn't even know you could drag a link into a post that way.

It *was* a well kept forum guru secret.

Cheers

-don

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Paul Myers

9 years ago

Dog? DOG?

Nicest thing anyone's said to me this week.

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Dennis Gaskill 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Dog? DOG?

Nicest thing anyone's said to me this week.

As you can tell from my avatar, dogs are among my best friends.
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Kurt 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Dog? DOG?

Nicest thing anyone's said to me this week.

And the best thing is, being from PA, you can still eat them...
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- Paul Myers 9 years ago
  
  And the best thing is, being from PA, you can still eat them...
  
  You, sir, could be replaced. By a Christmas card signing machine.
  
  That was out of ink.
  
  Phhhffffththhhfffft!
  
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  Kurt 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  You, sir, could be replaced. By a Christmas card signing machine.
  
  That was out of ink.
  
  Phhhffffththhhfffft!
  
  Pard me...would you have any greyhound poupon?
  
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Paul Myers

9 years ago

Hmmm. This is interesting. After my last post, I went to another thread. When I came back, I noticed the URL in the location bar was

Code:

http://www.warriorforum.com/showthread.php?p=9632538&posted=1#/post9632538

Took me to the top of the page.

Remove the 1#/ and it takes you to the post in question.

The link Don posted in #14 above has a / that doesn't belong after the # sign and is breaking the direct connection to the target post. Same with the one Joseph posted which doesn't work.

There's your culprit. Somebody tinkered with somethin'. Whether the effect was deliberate or not is anyone's guess.

Paul

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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

The link Don posted in #14 above has a / that doesn't belong after the # sign and is breaking the direct connection to the target post. Same with the one Joseph posted which doesn't work.

There's your culprit. Somebody tinkered with somethin'. Whether the effect was deliberate or not is anyone's guess.

Paul

Code:

1#/

Yup, good call, I knew someone had messed with something. The other day I quickly tried removing some characters in one of the links that had the string above, but evidently I did not remove enough characters (or I removed too many) but I knew the urls were looking funky.

I hope the effect was not deliberate (or permanent) because in Chrome I can't get directly to the inner reply links people post with a copy and paste, drag and drop, or the insert link button. The only way to get to a specific reply is to manually edit the link.

Cheers

-don

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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Just put these tags around the link:

Code:

[IMG][/IMG]

If you need a place to upload the image go to imgur.com it's easy, free and no registration required. Yeah something is not right, you should be seeing the menu bar.

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Cali16 9 years ago

Hopefully this works:
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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Cali, it worked but it's huge! You can upload that to imgur.com and then you can edit the size and/or crop it really easily...or you can delete it now as it's just like you said it was, it's basically a blank box.

This is what you should be seeing when you click advanced.

Thanks
1 reply

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Cali16 9 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

It worked but it's huge!

Yes, it was QUITE large, so I deleted it and resized it (even before I saw your response - YAY me, lol!).

But, as you can see, I don't have the smilies, tool / icon bar, etc., like you have. I'm using FireFox, but not sure why I'm getting something different. So, I'm stumped...

Sure would make posting a lot easier if I had all that stuff, rather than doing italics, bolds, etc. the hard way!

(Thanks for the imgur tip - that's a great site! You mentioned it once before but I never used it and then forgot about it...)
- Thanks
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If you don't face your fears, the only thing you'll ever see is what's in your comfort zone. ~Anne McClain, astronaut
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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Ahhh...much smaller, perfect. Yeah, imgur works great for a lot of stuff.

Try Chrome or IE and see what you get.

Yeah, you have been living forum life the hard way!

Thanks
1 reply

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Cali16 9 years ago

Well, this is interesting. I opened it up in IE. I still get the same blank box for posting, but NOW I see the banner ads, which disappeared 2 to 3 months ago....

I've never used Chrome or Safari, but it seems odd if this is a browser issue.

I also checked my WF User CP, but not seeing anything there that needs to be enabled that isn't already.

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Ahhh...much smaller, perfect.

Fast learner here!
- Thanks
- 1 reply
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If you don't face your fears, the only thing you'll ever see is what's in your comfort zone. ~Anne McClain, astronaut
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- ForumGuru Banned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Cali16
  
  I also checked my WF User CP, but not seeing anything there that needs to be enabled that isn't already.
  
  Cali,
  
  It sure looks like a user control setting. Go to User CP --> Edit Options and then scroll down to Miscellaneous Options and you will see the Message Editor Interface setting.
  
  It looks like you are set to Basic Editor:
  
  Switch it to this:
  
  You should be good to go!
  
  Cheers
  
  -don
  
  [ 3 ] Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
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  Cali16 9 years ago
  
  Yay! That worked!!!!! (Stupid me for overlooking that - )
  
  Now I have a lovely tool bar with all the quick editing goodies for my posts!
  
  Shouldn't you be asleep??! You're a dear for helping me with this!
  
  [ 1 ] Thanks
  
  Signature
  If you don't face your fears, the only thing you'll ever see is what's in your comfort zone. ~Anne McClain, astronaut
  
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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Interesting, I think you may have something on your machine or in your browsers that is messing up or disabling the menu/toolbar display.

Do you have JavaScript disabled? If you do then enable it and then clear your browsers and then reopen the browsers and see what you get. If that does not do the trick then...

I suppose you could try all of the normal stuff like a hard refresh on the browser(s), clear caches, run a malware check, disable unneeded browser plugins, add-ons, toolbars and maybe even ad blockers.

Maybe your AV software has some heavy duty protection running that is putting the clamps on some of the forum features that is affecting all browsers, so you might want to quickly check that.

Unfortunately I must log-off for tonight as it's 3AM here! Someone reading this thread may have ran into this issue before so I will cross my fingers that you get this sorted out soon.

Cheers

-don

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

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Cali16 9 years ago

Thanks, Don.

Now I'm in Chrome - and still just a blank box... I have Kaspersky.

Is it just me or does Chrome change everything to Italics? Weird!!
- Thanks
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If you don't face your fears, the only thing you'll ever see is what's in your comfort zone. ~Anne McClain, astronaut
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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

A couple months ago my Chrome started showing the forum italicized. For years all was good and then one day the forum went italics right before my eyes in the middle of the day while I was reading it!

Now all of the sudden the forum is not showing everything italicized on Chrome! It's back to normal... Whooo! I have a suspicion or two what may have happened but I dunno for sure. I deleted my Windows font cache a few days ago so maybe that may have did trick and I just noticed the text was back to normal today.

Cheers

-don

Thanks

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Paul Myers

9 years ago

After checking, all you need to remove is the / after the #.

Just guessing, but the 1 may be the tag that indicates the "First unread" in the thread. Doesn't mess with the [name] tag, at any rate.

[ 1 ] Thanks

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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

You are welcome and thank you for the cool thanks emoticon!

Yeah, I went to bed about 3:30 and could not fall asleep, and then it popped in my mind that it had to be a forum setting. I thought to myself, what the heck, I'll stay up for a few more hours and then sleep in reeeeaaal late!

I am just getting into some heavy photo editing and graphics creation this week so late nights will be a regular thing for me real soon. For some reason my creative/artistic side usually kicks in late in the day and that sometimes leads to some very late nights in Photoshop and some other tools.

Not a problem --> Let's all celebrate your new forum feature set!

Cheers!

-don

[ 1 ] Thanks

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whateverpedia

9 years ago

I'd be interested to know what the stats (bounce rate, page views, etc.) are purely for the OT section.

I think they'd be considerably higher than for the overall forum, but maybe not.

Thanks

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