Either This Is Real Or A Grade One Fake

Comets and religious symbols. That's OK, they used to think that men's sperm had a fully developed person in the head...and that's how it was depicted in early medical books. The round circles in the sky are clouds separating to allow the Light to shine through.

Added later; I wasn't talking about your post in a derogatory way. I was talking about the meaning of the ancient artwork. Sorry if it came off that way.

And people have been embellishing at least as long as they have been mining.

I've witnessed crimes before. There are often about as many versions as there are witnesses.

Dan

It's possible. Plus, there are Komodo Dragons, which are simply man sized lizards...and snakes the length of a school bus. And any of this could be a contributing factor. Or...

the stories were made up out of whole cloth.

But your theory is reasonable. It may also be that the image of dragons came up first, and then a few people found bones, or fossils that fed the idea.

It could even be that bones from different species were mistakenly put together to form a skeleton that would resemble a dragon. I'm surprised that this didn't happen often.

Originally, dragons were just depicted as large snakes. The wings, legs, fire came later. The word Dragon originally was used to describe sea serpents. And it just evolved. At least, that's what Wikipedia says.

And the early maps had pictures of dragons at the edge of the world, in the oceans.

It's amazing how these things come about.

It would be strange to be the guy that dismissed the idea of dragons completely..then found a skeleton of a huge snake...and an ostrich...put them together...and then became the chief proponent of the belief in dragons. A smart man, going by the evidence, and then being completely wrong.

This is very funny because just today I was chatting with my wee son and the topic of dragons came up after he just completed a jigsaw puzzle with a picture of dragons on it. I asked him what he thought dragons would have eaten. He answered, "Meat. Lava meat."

True, l wanted to be as well, but fake is fake or a computer generated look is hard to see, but it can be seen by the trained eye.

I work with high quality digital images, and can spot a CGI surface fairy easily, unfortunately the Spaceship has a fake surface!

"Come in peace, shoot to kill"!



Im, not touching this one! I will let someone else, say the inevitable, "this won't end well", or l need a curry?

Here, you go Claude, this is real, (well if it is proven in a lab it is)!


If we can build something like this, that works, then UFO's should be an open subject. Or it is possible!

I think you are a very nice guy, and discussing the subject of UFOs any further will just be a dead end. So I'll respectfully bow out.

A "proof of concept" video isn't really worth anything. But that wasn't a proof of concept anything. Proof of concept is when you take some milestone and PROVE it can be done that way NOT by argument, discussion, math, theory, etc... but by actually DOING it! But it hasn't been done.

WOW! IF/WOULD=PROBABLE? Probable means that if you see a crop circle or some such, and someone says they think it is a UFO, you would say that is PROBABLY(LIKELY) what happened!

Jewish scholars TODAY still argue the nuance of some common words and how they can DRASTICALLY change the meanings of religious writings, People still wonder about the meanings of some things Nostradamus has said. We don't even know WHAT was described, or the context, so it is hard to make such assertions.

AGREED, but if you go to 1000 farms and get a million bushels of radishes or whatever, and search thoroughly, you may STILL not find any beef in there! So increasing the sample does not GUARANTEE that something will show up.

WOW, that is a big flip flop. You know, SOME ufologists say that there is SO much different about humans that they can't account for it. THEY claim that ALIENS bred humans and one major theory was to be as SLAVES for them. For whatever reason, the story goes that we did what they wanted, and they left,

Given THAT, do you think their examinations may have a valid reason, etc? How would that change your feelings towards the mutation, etc?

Steve

Ian is Bolded, I'm not.
But, even in science there are grey areas, mostly because we have not proved stuff conclusively yet, what is Dark, Matter, Is their really multiple universes and dimensions. In the case of the theory about multiple universes all the facts fit based on what we know. They should exist, but the chances of ever proving it and demonstrating it is so conclusively is remote to say the least.

I have left out the parts of your post that I agree with entirely. In fact "agree with" isn't the right phrase. I'm leaving out the parts that are completely reasonable. Remember, I don't really care about the aliens. I care about the logic used to arrive at the opinion. By the way, you're smart enough to think "Well, what about your own flaws in logic? How do you know you have caught them?". It's something I am on constant guard against. And I always welcome a real correction to my thinking. It isn't important that I win an argument. It's important that my thinking is rational, and not faulty. So, here we go......

Dark matter is a far more established than multiple universes. Something exists that we call Dark Matter. We don't understand it exactly, but we see the effects...and we call the cause of those effects Dark Matter. Multiple Universes is just an idea that hasn't been dis-proven. Not being dis-proven, is far different than being proven. At this time, it's just an idea. You say they should exist...why should they? Maybe they do, but there isn't even mathematical proof, not even close. A few astrophysicists came up with an idea, and it's popular, because it's interesting. The closest thing I've seen to evidence is that the universe is expanding at an ever increasing rate, and it's been said that it may be because other universes are pulling on the boundaries of this universe. Maybe. It's an interesting idea.

There are multiple dimensions, the math is pretty strong on that. But I want to kill an idea right here. When physicists say "Dimensions", it's a direction of measurement. like the three dimensions of height, depth, width. It isn't another plane of existence. That's not what physicists mean at all. But the word "Dimensions" is also used in New Age Metaphysics. It's used in a different way. But the New Age meaning? It isn't what scientists mean when they say "9 dimensions". They mean "9 different directions of measurement". And that only occurs on the very very sub atomic levels.

So, based on that, you and I entertain it as a strong likelihood and factor it in as a strong possibility without having it conclusively proven to us. Without knowing it you are accepting a highly likely "Probability" based on a theory which evidence seems to fit well at this given time.

I'm sorry, but based on that, it makes a good movie. But it isn't more than an educated guess....except for the Dark Matter.


So I will christen this "Logical Probability".(great new field)

I actually like that a lot.

I note that we have now discovered thousands of exo-planets revolving around stars in our immediate neighborhood within about a grain of sands worth of distance from our solar system compared to the universes sheer size.

Yes, and that's a very bad comparison. Compared to the size of the universe, everything is minuscule. But alien spacecraft aren't the size of the universe, and neither would be alien planets that support life. Your "grain of sand compared to the size of the universe" comparison is highly faulty. Compared to the size of a planet...the distances are unimaginable. The light from our world, showing any signs of technology, has only gone a grain of sand's distance compared to the size of our galaxy. Very likely, no habitable planet has even received the radio signals from us, or any other signals.

Given this, the Probability that the rest of the universe has a similar profusion of earth like of planets going around their suns is very highly likely.

Yes, I agree. But the question isn't if there are other habitable worlds. The question is, would they even know we exist, and would they travel the incredible distances to take a look at us? Any indication what our planet harbors life, would only be seen by a very very small portion of our galaxy...assuming that they have highly advanced technology.

Given that the building blocks are the same everywhere I will also say that it's Highly Probable that their is a profusion of life evolved on a fair proportion of them. Given the sheer scale of our galaxy alone as well as the rest of the universe. A proportion of that life which in relative terms would be massive across the universe are probably highly developed and have, like we have, found ways to detect earth like planets (or possible life bearing ones) and also ways to not break, but bend the laws of physics a little to allow themselves to travel huge distances in a short space of time.

Nothing wrong with that thinking. But we are assuming quite a lot. In fact, it's all based on assumptions, isn't it? Is that the way to draw conclusions?

Earlier on this thread Shane posted a proof of concept video for designs of such a craft. Where as 20 years ago this was simply Star Trek their are now a few highly respected scientists coming forward and saying, well, no, it's not totally beyond the realms of possibility that we could achieve this.

Well, "Proof of concept" is being pretty generous. And "it's not totally beyond the realms of possibility that we could achieve this"...is way way way far away from saying that it's probably workable. Another correct sentence would be, "it's not totally beyond the realms of possibility that fire breathing dragons exist". It's not even as good as sheer speculation. Even random guesses are more likely than "it's not totally beyond the realms of possibility".

So, an advanced civilization would have ironed out all the kinks. That makes a visitation either currently, or in the past to us, a reasonable probability.

First, you say "Ironed out all the kinks" like " it's not totally beyond the realms of possibility that we could achieve this" really means "We are 99% there, just need to work out a few kinks". So, no...it's not a reasonable possibility. Even if I agreed with all of your assumptions, ..at best, I could agree that "I have no reason to declare it completely impossible".


However, for the sake of argument I will discount 99 percent of it as mis-identification. That leaves 1 percent of credible observation, perhaps mass observation of flying objects that are not misinterpreted and bear no relation to what we are capable of doing in in our skies with our current technology. One percent of the whole history of mankinds observations amounts to a lot.

I've seen this "That leaves 1 percent of credible observation" statement often. Here and in other places. It's bad thinking. If 100 people said that they saw Superman, does that mean that 99 lied, and one really saw Superman? Something is either real or it isn't. The number of people believing something isn't convincing to me, at all. Remember..entire continents thought Thor was real. And if only 1% of those people were right......

So, your "If only 1%" argument seems reasonable, but it is not.

So here, putting all the above together, the conditions and size of the universe, the tiny fraction of man-kinds observations being credible I would have to conclude that a visitation was more Probable than your estimation of almost total impossibility. I would consider it short sighted and arrogant to think otherwise.

Based on everything you just said, and I'm assuming these are some of your best arguments, The best I can do is agree that the idea of UFOs visiting our planet, and being accurately reported...is not completely impossible.

The fact that you accept them as "probable", is strange to me, given that you are obviously intelligent. You have taken several ideas that are slightly possible, and concluded that "8 times slightly possible equals probable". But it does not. Eight times slightly possible means that the conclusion is very very very very very very slightly possible.

My friend, I was raised in a home where rational thought was rare. Nearly everyone I knew then, especially relatives.... are still living in a world where magic is real, elves exist, and poetry is proof. So, I developed a pathological dislike for the irrational thinking, and a love for the scientific method. None of that is shared by any in my family, or my wife's....and by only a couple of my friends. So, I keep these thoughts to myself. But here? Only Riffle has met me in person, so the social consequences are minimal.

I honestly don't think I can change your mind, or anyone else's. But I enjoy the exercise. And you're a good guy.