What should be taught in schools

by ThomM
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This planet would be in a lot better shape if courses like this where taught in schools. Soil Biota, Soil Systems and Processes
Plant production and Soil biodiversity
  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Agreed. It would also be a much better world if schools taught basic financial planning at a young age and then reinforced it in junior high, high school, etc.

    RoD
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Agreed (with both the above).

      It would also be a better world if far more "junior schools" routinely taught basic philosophy/thinking-skills/logic (and the successful outcomes of doing so, in the few countries in which that does now happen, are already pretty clear).

      .
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Agreed (with both the above).

        It would also be a better world if far more "junior schools" routinely taught basic philosophy/thinking-skills/logic (and the successful outcomes of doing so, in the few countries in which that does now happen, are already pretty clear).

        .

        That was my first thought. Teaching someone how to reason is where everything else comes from. Maybe the problem is that there are so few people in authority that see the value.


        I wish there was a way to teach a love of learning.
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        • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          That was my first thought. Teaching someone how to reason is where everything else comes from. Maybe the problem is that there are so few people in authority that see the value.


          I wish there was a way to teach a love of learning.
          There is Claude, it's the lost art of parenting.

          ~ Theresa
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          That was my first thought. Teaching someone how to reason is where everything else comes from. Maybe the problem is that there are so few people in authority that see the value.


          I wish there was a way to teach a love of learning.
          I think, to a degree, people are BORN with a love of learning. Parents and "teachers" actually try to destroy it. "because I said so" or "that's just the way it is", or empty praise DOES NOT CUT IT!

          And NOW, they want to stop letting people know that they are behind, etc.... Some people, if they know they are behind, will always try HARDER if you let them know.

          Disney has this nice little movie. It is about a person that is a STAR! EVERYONE lauds her, she is the STAR on a big team, etc.... Before the movie is a third of the way over, you find that everyone considers her a worthless JOKE! OH, she is good, but NOT star material. She finds out what they all think, and wants to become THE BEST! At one point, she says something to her father like.... "YOU DON'T THINK I'M GOOD!?!?!?!? WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME? I WOULD HAVE TRIED HARDER!". Anyway, she strives to do what they all think is IMPOSSIBLE! The first guy known to try it nearly died and was practically left a cripple. He was scared to EVER go back.

          In the end, her old team, having dropped her for a "REAL" STAR, finished their show, and knows that their defeat is "IMPOSSIBLE". The ONLY hope is that this JOKE of a HAS BEEN, does the unthinkable! Well, she DOES, and her has been washed up JOKE of a team WINS!

          I don't know if that is a true story or not, but such things DO happen! I am sure MANY have said what she said to her father!

          Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          I wish there was a way to teach a love of learning.
          Yes, this overrides everything. It's just about the most important gift you can give a child, IMO.

          You teach it by your enthusiasm and encouragement. You teach it by not focusing the whole of their "learning" on a narrow syllabus. You teach it by exposing students to a wide range of topics and viewpoints. You teach it by taking away the emphasis on test results as the "be all and end all" of learning. You teach it by having parents who are fully committed to a child's education and not prepared to abdicate this responsibility to a third party.

          Above all, you teach it by fostering the notion, by your own example (and supported, ideally, by a restructuring of society), that learning is a lifelong activity that doesn't stop the minute you leave school behind.


          Frank
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        • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


          I wish there was a way to teach a love of learning.
          I think someone mentioned something about love of learning being inherent in a person. I tend to go along with that. I have a huge love of learning but it's also a naturally strong curiosity about just about anything.

          As for teaching it, it seems this love of learning can be planted as a seed and nourished by teachers. They accomplish this with their attitude and real zest for teaching. If they have a real and strong passion for knowledge and excitement to pass this knowledge on.

          Now, for a reality check...

          I realize it's hard for a teacher to be like that every day. And they are subject to all the stresses like the rest of us. And after a while they run out of gas and all that enthusiasm diminishes.

          I had this math professor in college, and that guy had excitement every single day of the semester. It was a sight to see.

          I had a Chinese chemistry professor during freshman year who was the same. Someone might say something like, those who can't do, teach. Well, this guy was a visiting research fellow at Argonne National Laboratory, at the time. He did heavy research in chemistry. But one day he mentioned that he loved teaching intro chemistry courses because it kept him honest and he loved seeing young people learn chemistry.

          Teachers are really some of the most important people in our world. IMHO.

          Ken
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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            Wow !! All I can say is Wow !!!!
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

            I think someone mentioned something about love of learning being inherent in a person. I tend to go along with that. I have a huge love of learning but it's also a naturally strong curiosity about just about anything.

            As for teaching it, it seems this love of learning can be planted as a seed and nourished by teachers. They accomplish this with their attitude and real zest for teaching. If they have a real and strong passion for knowledge and excitement to pass this knowledge on.

            Now, for a reality check...

            I realize it's hard for a teacher to be like that every day. And they are subject to all the stresses like the rest of us. And after a while they run out of gas and all that enthusiasm diminishes.

            I had this math professor in college, and that guy had excitement every single day of the semester. It was a sight to see.

            I had a Chinese chemistry professor during freshman year who was the same. Someone might say something like, those who can't do, teach. Well, this guy was a visiting research fellow at Argonne National Laboratory, at the time. He did heavy research in chemistry. But one day he mentioned that he loved teaching intro chemistry courses because it kept him honest and he loved seeing young people learn chemistry.

            Teachers are really some of the most important people in our world. IMHO.

            Ken
            Ken after my last post I was thinking about how lucky I was to have teachers through out my life who made learning exciting and fun. When I was studying plant science I learned real fast that everything was at a much higher level then I thought I was capable of grasping. But I had professors who showed me how exciting and interesting the subjects where. They basically turned me around from being worried, to being excited and looking forward to every class, every day. Heck I'm still excited about it all and still look forward each day to learning more, relearning what I already know (the first two links I posted for example) and then applying it all on a daily basis.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

            I think someone mentioned something about love of learning being inherent in a person. I tend to go along with that. I have a huge love of learning but it's also a naturally strong curiosity about just about anything.

            As for teaching it, it seems this love of learning can be planted as a seed and nourished by teachers. They accomplish this with their attitude and real zest for teaching. If they have a real and strong passion for knowledge and excitement to pass this knowledge on.

            Now, for a reality check...

            I realize it's hard for a teacher to be like that every day. And they are subject to all the stresses like the rest of us. And after a while they run out of gas and all that enthusiasm diminishes.

            I had this math professor in college, and that guy had excitement every single day of the semester. It was a sight to see.

            I had a Chinese chemistry professor during freshman year who was the same. Someone might say something like, those who can't do, teach. Well, this guy was a visiting research fellow at Argonne National Laboratory, at the time. He did heavy research in chemistry. But one day he mentioned that he loved teaching intro chemistry courses because it kept him honest and he loved seeing young people learn chemistry.

            Teachers are really some of the most important people in our world. IMHO.

            Ken
            Yeah, I was the one that said it was inherent. I am always looking for better ways to learn. At times, I am like "number 5" when he found a book store!


            And I AGREE! A good teacher is worth a lot. The problem is that they are SO RARE! I only had a few like you describe. SERIOUSLY, maybe 3-5! There were a couple of broadcasters on KFI in CA that mentioned about how their school counselor talked them into college. They were told that if they just got a BA, that they could be a highschool "teacher" guaranteed a job if they had trouble finding any work. There are obviously a LOT of "teachers" that CAN'T do! If they COULD, there wouldn't be enough to create a union that fights against the ability to look for, and select, the best teachers. The good ones should WELCOME the ability to get rid of the worst because it will make their job easier, get them higher pay, and raise the status of the position. But the LARGE number of BAD ones are AGAINST it because it means the end of their career, and will have them out on the streets trying to find a job.

            Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          That was my first thought. Teaching someone how to reason is where everything else comes from. Maybe the problem is that there are so few people in authority that see the value.


          I wish there was a way to teach a love of learning.
          My parents kept us kids wanting to know about everything. That's why I think moms need to be home with kids til they go to school. I know this economy makes that impossible, but kids raised by moms who actually have time to work with them do so much better.

          Thom - they taught biology and elementary science in my school in Jr High. It seems like that would be a good place to stick courses on soil. Beats dissecting life forms. I also think survival skills should be taught - and growing food would be part of a course on survival basics.

          Logic should be taught formally in at least senior year high school. I wouldn't bother with Jr high. Kids logic systems don't kick in until they're around 10 or 11. Until then you can start teaching them to think about things a little bit, cause and effect, picking out statements that are probably false, and why, etc. is about all you can expect before those ages, even if I kid seems to be functioning via logic before then, they're usually just parroting.
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

        Agreed. It would also be a much better world if schools taught basic financial planning at a young age and then reinforced it in junior high, high school, etc.

        RoD
        Rod back in the old, old, days when I went to school you where given two choices (in high school) for math. If you planned on going to college you took Algebra, Calculus, and Geometry. If you decided not to go to college you took business math. In business math you learned everything from how to write a check and reconcile your checking account to different types of interest (compound, fixed variable, apr) , budgeting and planning.
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Agreed (with both the above).

        It would also be a better world if far more "junior schools" routinely taught basic philosophy/thinking-skills/logic (and the successful outcomes of doing so, in the few countries in which that does now happen, are already pretty clear).

        .
        Alexa you're right. I learned a lot of that from my father
        and when I went to college for Plant Science was real glad I did. Another area that ties into those is cause, effect and consequences. I think philosophy/thinking-skills/logic should be a precursor for learning just about anything else.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          I wish there was a way to teach a love of learning.
          Some how my father taught me that, probably by example.
          For example when he was (in his younger days long before I was born) the gardener for the Vanderbilts he learned all the botanical names for the plants he took care of. So growing up if I asked what a certain tree or plant was I was told the Latin name. For example when I asked what those trees where dropping nuts in our yard, he told me Juglans cinerea or the 'vulgar' name of Butternut.
          He was very much a self-taught man and spent much of his free time reading and learning. I picked up on that and to this day enjoy reading technical books and text books more so then novels.
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          Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
          Getting old ain't for sissy's
          As you are I was, as I am you will be
          You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

        Agreed. It would also be a much better world if schools taught basic financial planning at a young age and then reinforced it in junior high, high school, etc.

        RoD
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Agreed (with both the above).

        It would also be a better world if far more "junior schools" routinely taught basic philosophy/thinking-skills/logic (and the successful outcomes of doing so, in the few countries in which that does now happen, are already pretty clear).

        .
        If they taught these things then they couldn't train generations of government dependent, worker drones.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      Agreed. It would also be a much better world if schools taught basic financial planning at a young age and then reinforced it in junior high, high school, etc.

      RoD
      At this point, I doubt they ever will. A lot of the words are among those rendered meaningless by political doublespeak. HECK, if they taught young kids, like 5 or so, it could do a LOT! Why wait another 6 or 9 years?

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
    Agreeing with the above posts!..

    My "off the wall in the OT forum" suggestion would be something along these lines:

    When I was in high school, we had a class "Law in a Free Society". Aside from what the title tells you about the class subject, we had a guest speaker, none other than Mills Lane! You boxing fans will get that.

    Part of his lecture was also a trip to the prisons. Now, when I had his class, they no longer allowed trips to the maximum security prison for men, but we did tour the medium security prison for men, and the prison for women (which was all in one).

    What an eye opener! Sort of along the lines of Scared Straight, but not so .....

    Anyhow, learning about the law and actually seeing what happens when you break the law, would IMO, make a difference in a lot of young lives.

    To me, it was an awesome class. I'll never forget the woman named "Lizard".

    ~ Theresa
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

    This planet would be in a lot better shape if courses like this where taught in schools. Soil Biota, Soil Systems and Processes
    Plant production and Soil biodiversity
    A lot of that WAS taught when I was a little kid. Frankly, I am shocked that so many know so little about it. AND, though I would have loved to have learned about hydrophonics, and the like, it is overly complicated for a low care/low cost system. Learning about the stuff taught so much earlier, like composting, bacteria, earthworms and the like, how plant needs vary, and just plain old planting is far more worth it, and you don't have to spend years, or even dedicate a class to it, to teach it.

    I forget whether it was discussed here or not, but one person said once, on another site, how he was against killing animals and, if we wanted meat, we could just go to markets!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    How about *****NATIONAL***** history. That does NOT mean korea, black, women, etc... In the US, that means US history! And how about GLOBAL history, which means like WWI, WWII and a little about our allies and foes. The current state is UNBELIEVABLY LUDICROUS! MY generation would be ASHAMED of responses like this:


    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      How about *****NATIONAL***** history. That does NOT mean korea, black, women, etc... In the US, that means US history! And how about GLOBAL history, which means like WWI, WWII and a little about our allies and foes. The current state is UNBELIEVABLY LUDICROUS! MY generation would be ASHAMED of responses like this:

      Politically-Challenged: Texas Tech Edition - YouTube

      Steve
      I hear that Steve. I had a great history teacher in high school. He made everything seem like we where learning about adventures instead of history. He just had a knack for making it all interesting.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        I hear that Steve. I had a great history teacher in high school. He made everything seem like we where learning about adventures instead of history. He just had a knack for making it all interesting.
        I used to HATE history, but I knew about a lot of things, like the revolutionary, civil, WWI, WWII, wars, etc... And I knew something about a lot of other things. so if someone asked me about benedict arnold, hitler, how the armies were run, who won the wars, etc... I could tell them. THESE days I have heard SO many that didn't even know the basics, and can see how it affected THEIR lives adversely, etc... that I have to admit that proponents of teaching it were right. BELIEVE ME, if you told me, as even an 18yo, that I would EVER be a proponent, I would say you were nuts and DREAMING.

        TODAY, they figure if a person is SIOUX, let's say, that they can simply learn about their history, and forget the rest. But THEN, there is no common context, no idea of how the US did things, or THAT past history, of how current relationships were built, etc.... They can always take special classes in THEIR cultural history, or learn about it from their elders, etc... as has often been done in the past.

        As for the question of who fought the civil war, asked by a student to have a choice they could select from? I would have said WE DID! It would be like who's on first! THEY would say WE won, and I would say OK, WHO won! That 1965 answer shows you how perspective can be a problem. In HER mind, it WAS fought about that time. They can't think about the earlier war.

        I once told someone of how Martin Luther brought Germany together, and SHE said I meant Martin Luther KING!!!!!! FUNNY, I didn't know he was around in the 16th century, in Germany, and knew german!

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    What should be taught in schools?

    More personal responsibility. Less self-importance.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Ken, Thom -- we had an Art teacher that was so popular that people would cut their classes to go to his. He was extremely talented and opened a shop at Mackinaw Island when he retired. His students would go up there specifically to see him in the summer.

    He just died a few weeks ago and you wouldn't believe how many students came in from all over to attend his funeral. On our high school page in FB there are many threads and hundreds of posts from people talking about how he changed their lives even if they weren't all that artistic. I'm thinking there's probably no tribute to a teacher ever that could top it..........but if all could aspire to having tributes like his when they pass - we might see kids motivated to learn again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
    What should be taught in schools
    Gun safety
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Alex Blades View Post

      Gun safety
      Well, I don't know how a teacher can really teach it. I mean you can say....

      1. LOOK, it is a REAL gun! It is NOT to be treated as a toy!
      2. It is best not to touch it if you have no experience.
      3. Most guns CAN have at least one bullet ready EVEN if the magazine is REMOVED
      4. NEVER aim at something you would mind putting a bullet through.
      5. ALWAYS hold it firmly, with your finger away from the trigger, unless ready to shoot.
      6. They DO recoil, based on the gun and the bullet.
      7. NEVER load a gun unless ready to shoot, or when you need to be prepared.
      8. Use the safety when you need to, but don't rely on it.

      But you KNOW that there is always some idiot that WILL play cops and robbers, aim at people, show you the magazine is out, etc...

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Simply amazing that no one said the basics. Reading, Writing and Arithmetic. So important!

        To enter our college you are given some basic tests to establish if you need any remedial classes.

        And when you get students writing essays in the style of text messages it makes you wonder.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          Simply amazing that no one said the basics. Reading, Writing and Arithmetic. So important!

          To enter our college you are given some basic tests to establish if you need any remedial classes.

          And when you get students writing essays in the style of text messages it makes you wonder.
          Teachers aren't allowed to teach anymore. Ever seen Common Core math? Even the teachers don't understand it. Some parts of it are just plain wrong. You can't come up with 10 from 8 and 5 - not without taking something away. Yet common core math insists you can. It's disgusting, purposefully defunct.

          Now Common Core has decided that each race of students has to be punished a different way for bad behavior. If you discipline a student that's not your own race, you risk your job no matter how disruptive the brat is. My sister just went through that in CA - when they had her hearing (yeah, hearing - the mother went straight to the school board after her job), she took her 5 year boyfriend who was black with her. The woman's "prejudice old white bitch argument fell apart on the spot. Now she's after someone else's job and this time they're countering for harassment because of the woman's record to claiming charges against white teachers.

          With all that crap going on, the schools are getting good at indoctrination, but they absolutely suck at imparting knowledge.
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          Sal
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            Now Common Core has decided that each race of students has to be punished a different way for bad behavior. If you discipline a student that's not your own race, you risk your job no matter how disruptive the brat is. My sister just went through that in CA - when they had her hearing (yeah, hearing - the mother went straight to the school board after her job), she took her 5 year boyfriend who was black with her. The woman's "prejudice old white bitch argument fell apart on the spot. Now she's after someone else's job and this time they're countering for harassment because of the woman's record to claiming charges against white teachers.
            This is hard to believe. I wonder exactly what the matrix of allowed races looks like. It is also odd because the ONLY somewhat passible argument FOR common core, outside of the idea of a teachers protection racket, is that all students will be EQUAL.

            It will NOT help the poorer students, In fact, it will HURT them. They will have LESS incentive or help to do well. But they will still get better grades! And it will NOT help the better students. It will hurt THEM also! But it will frustrate help and research, and will make things, on a GRADE basis, appear to be more equal.

            It IS interesting. Many have spoken with grade inflation, and I had to laugh were one person laughed at the concept, said he saw it as a scam and said he was doing well and would NEVER take a lower grade. and never have to. What he didn't realize was that grade inflation has already happened and affected him as well. "common core" will just make it WORSE! IMAGINE all those people that get Bs, and perhaps As, in math and can't do the simplest math. ALL because some government didn't want to hurt their feelings, or prevent their passing. Companies may do what many employers now do elsewhere, and test them on the simplest things.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              You can't come up with 10 from 8 and 5 - not without taking something away. Yet common core math insists you can. It's disgusting, purposefully defunct
              But Sal kids aren't comfortable with simple math unless their friend 10 is there.
              Common Core Math hint: Our friend "10" [video] - Illinois Review
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    And my favorite example of 'how' things should be taught
    (Venus goes into how education is part of survival...):

    This clip provides an foot notes about the method:

    I think parents and teachers can and should instill a love of learning
    based upon intrinsic rewards and extrinsic practicalities.

    I also think that it should be taught that self-esteem is something you earn,
    self-confidence is something you have that can be developed, and self-respect and
    self-preservation are already yours and yours to preserve. (This is for a whole other
    thread, really. I just seem to be around a lot of women who have been or are in abusive
    relationships and say it's cause they have low self-esteem. The pop-psych model is wrong.)

    Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      And my favorite example of 'how' things should be taught
      (Venus goes into how education is part of survival...):
      WKRP | "Venus and the Man" - YouTube

      This clip provides an foot notes about the method:
      Venus Explains the Atom.mp4 - YouTube

      I think parents and teachers can and should instill a love of learning
      based upon intrinsic rewards and extrinsic practicalities.

      I also think that it should be taught that self-esteem is something you earn,
      self-confidence is something you have that can be developed, and self-respect and
      self-preservation are already yours and yours to preserve. (This is for a whole other
      thread, really. I just seem to be around a lot of women who have been or are in abusive
      relationships and say it's cause they have low self-esteem. The pop-psych model is wrong.)

      Dan
      I remembered all about that, but don't know if I ever used that to illustrate this before. GOOD SELECTION! EVERYTHING he said was right. This is VERY much how things are! A guy figuring the world is against him doesn't even BOTHER and almost REVELS in his ignorance, and does far less than he is capable of. Because of the bad luck, created by his attitude, he joins or creates a gang. MEANWHILE if someone can illustrate it in some way, no matter how circuitous, and use something the guy can relate to, he may easily learn something he would never believe he could, and certainly would never try to learn.

      But this is really a VERY old tried and true theory, so it is something CC may never do.

      Steve
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