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Live Beyond the Limits of Imaginay Lid!

by HN Banned
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  • Profile picture of the author HN
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      I'm used to seeing that flea "experiment" referenced in self-help articles. But I did find this comment from an entomologist:

      "While this experiment would be easy to repeat, I believe it is apocryphal for a few reasons. First, there's no name associated with the experiment. Who first found this out? When and where? Apocryphal and urban legend stories often lack names, which is one of the easiest ways to spot them. Second, the versions I've seen of the story online are almost always tied with some sort of psychological/religious message. Self esteem, mental blocks, etc. If the story was true, it would be circulating among cognitive neuroscience websites, not self-help blogs. Association with some "moral" is also a give-away for fiction or tall tales.

      Third, I don't think it would work. My experience with insects in jars is that they fly about for a bit, then give up and rest. Shake the jar, tap it, or blow into it and they start buzzing around again before resting again. I don't think the fleas would avoid the glass lid and keep jumping, nor do I think you could remove the lid without them realizing or at least sensing the air currents, which would make them jump again.      "

      Is the glass lid experiment with fleas real or merely apocryphal? - Quora

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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        I'm used to seeing that flea "experiment" referenced in self-help articles. But I did find this comment from an entomologist:

        "While this experiment would be easy to repeat, I believe it is apocryphal for a few reasons. First, there's no name associated with the experiment. Who first found this out? When and where? Apocryphal and urban legend stories often lack names, which is one of the easiest ways to spot them. Second, the versions I've seen of the story online are almost always tied with some sort of psychological/religious message. Self esteem, mental blocks, etc. If the story was true, it would be circulating among cognitive neuroscience websites, not self-help blogs. Association with some "moral" is also a give-away for fiction or tall tales.

        Third, I don't think it would work. My experience with insects in jars is that they fly about for a bit, then give up and rest. Shake the jar, tap it, or blow into it and they start buzzing around again before resting again. I don't think the fleas would avoid the glass lid and keep jumping, nor do I think you could remove the lid without them realizing or at least sensing the air currents, which would make them jump again.        "

        Is the glass lid experiment with fleas real or merely apocryphal? - Quora

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        That's new information to me. Thanks for that.

        It reminds me of the story of The Bumble Bee. You know, it's too heavy to fly, but it doesn't know that...so it flies anyway. Same thing. It's a metaphor, not reality.

        Both stories are very Zig Ziglarish.

        But are you sure the flea story isn't true? The rational part of my brain tells me that it isn't true.

        You know the elephant story? Where the baby elephant is held by a chain and a pole deep into the ground. When the elephant is an adult, a rope will work, because of conditioning. Is that true? And that story is used in the same way, and an analogy to teach a motivational principle. Again, I think it isn't really true. But a real answer based on experience could change my mind.
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        • Profile picture of the author HN
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          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Again, I think it isn't really true. But a real answer based on experience could change my mind.
          Don't they sell fleas in your area? Why should you rely on someone else to prove or disprove it?

          I don't know about elephants, but I know how the train military dogs. Dogs should only accept food from their owner. If someone else offers them food they give the dog electric shock. Then again. It the dog doesn't learn after 3rd time, this dog is no good, they take another. This is to avoid dogs getting poisoned by enemy.
          Perhaps this has nothing to do with fleas and elephants.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by HN View Post

            Don't they sell fleas in your area? Why should you rely on someone else to prove or disprove it?
            And where should I get the fleas? It's not like there are Flea Markets.
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            • Profile picture of the author HN
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              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              And where should I get the fleas? It's not like there are Flea Markets.
              Wholesale dog fleas - Online Buy Best dog fleas from China Wholesalers | Alibaba.com

              Dammit, you can never trust the titles of the websites.

              But there's always a solution. Open a flea control service and start taking calls from people who do have them. So you get the fleas and you even get paid to take them.

              P.S. Flea Markets. Yeah I got it. For some reason they were also called Flea Markets here and in Finland, and Russia.
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              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                Originally Posted by HN View Post

                Wholesale dog fleas - Online Buy Best dog fleas from China Wholesalers | Alibaba.com

                Dammit, you can never trust the titles of the websites.

                But there's always a solution. Open a flea control service and start taking calls from people who do have them. So you get the fleas and you even get paid to take them.

                P.S. Flea Markets. Yeah I got it. For some reason they were also called Flea Markets here and in Finland, and Russia.
                That's because people would buy the second hand items and often find them infested.

                I've never had a dog stupid enough to not know if he's actually physically restricted or not. Elephants aren't any less intelligent than dogs. They don't escape because they are usually tortured if they do. Elephant trainers are extremely abusive. So they know they can leave - they're scared crapless to do so. Enrage one of the animals while they're on a chain and stake and see how long they "think they are tied down".
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              • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                Originally Posted by HN View Post

                Wholesale dog fleas - Online Buy Best dog fleas from China Wholesalers | Alibaba.com

                Dammit, you can never trust the titles of the websites.

                But there's always a solution. Open a flea control service and start taking calls from people who do have them. So you get the fleas and you even get paid to take them.

                P.S. Flea Markets. Yeah I got it. For some reason they were also called Flea Markets here and in Finland, and Russia.
                You sound really Tic'ed off
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          That's new information to me. Thanks for that.

          It reminds me of the story of The Bumble Bee. You know, it's too heavy to fly, but it doesn't know that...so it flies anyway. Same thing. It's a metaphor, not reality.

          Both stories are very Zig Ziglarish.

          But are you sure the flea story isn't true? The rational part of my brain tells me that it isn't true.

          You know the elephant story? Where the baby elephant is held by a chain and a pole deep into the ground. When the elephant is an adult, a rope will work, because of conditioning. Is that true? And that story is used in the same way, and an analogy to teach a motivational principle. Again, I think it isn't really true. But a real answer based on experience could change my mind.
          The elephant story reminds me of a dog I use to have.
          When I put the dog (Elmo) out on his chain he would run till he was almost at the end of it then stop and rear up on his hind legs. He always stopped about two feet from the end of the chain. One day I decided to not hook up the chain to the garage and see what he would do. It took me about 2 hours to get him home again.
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          But are you sure the flea story isn't true?
          I haven't seen any reference to the original experiment, such as who performed it and under what context it was carried out. I've seen no sources quoted to support the claim that the fleas' offspring automatically display the same behaviour.

          I accept the principle of conditioning, but if I had to guess, I'd say the flea story is one that started as an urban legend and has since been picked up by the legion of self-help gurus because it so perfectly fits an agenda.

          A bit like the lemming myth.


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