Rolling Stone UVA fraternity rape story faked?

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Rolling Stone just released a message to their readers that there may be major discrepancies in their widely shared story on a rape at a University of Virgina fraternity.

A Note to Our Readers | Rolling Stone

"In the face of new information, there now appear to be discrepancies in Jackie's account, and we have come to the conclusion that our trust in her was misplaced. We were trying to be sensitive to the unfair shame and humiliation many women feel after a sexual assault and now regret the decision to not contact the alleged assaulters to get their account. We are taking this seriously and apologize to anyone who was affected by the story."
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    They now disavow the story altogether "in light of new evidence."

    Rolling Stone Backtracks on Explosive UVA Rape Story, Issues Apology - ABC News
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Pretty shocking, isn't it? When you consider frats were shut down and all the protests and claims being made and the outrage about treatment of women at UVa...and investigations begun.

      It's an example of what happens when people take "stories" at face value. The story was not researched at all - the woman's claims were published as fact by the author and the magazine and believed by most who read it.

      The facts can be checked because this was 2 years ago - had it been 20 years ago there would be no way to check the facts. This woman's story was "believable", full of details...and it wasn't true. I think the magazine will find itself liable for this one and the writer should be out of a job.
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Whatever happened to responsible reporting and more importantly, what the heck is wrong with the editor for allowing such a thing without asking the reporter for proven facts?

        I'm perplexed over that one.



        Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Pretty shocking, isn't it? When you consider frats were shut down and all the protests and claims being made and the outrage about treatment of women at UVa...and investigations begun.

        It's an example of what happens when people take "stories" at face value. The story was not researched at all - the woman's claims were published as fact by the author and the magazine and believed by most who read it.

        The facts can be checked because this was 2 years ago - had it been 20 years ago there would be no way to check the facts. This woman's story was "believable", full of details...and it wasn't true. I think the magazine will find itself liable for this one and the writer should be out of a job.
        The story may or may not have holes. The "new evidence" came from the accused and that now just makes it a he said/she said thing. Her story has not been unproven ... it has a couple of holes, but so does the "new evidence."

        It's probably a fabricated story, but there's no certainty either way now. Rolling Stone should have interviewed the accused before publishing a story, or even the friends of Jackie who saw her after the "rape" to get both sides, but they didn't, which of course, isn't fair reporting, and is downright negligent reporting.

        But the facts are that UVA had already been under federal investigation in 2011 over concerns with how the university handle sexual violence on campus, and many campuses are now under federal investigation because they do not encourage a report of rape to police when it is reported to them and they do not expel or act on rape accusations and little to no investigation is done on their part. Their policy has been to sweep it under the rug.

        UVA is one of 88 higher education institutions currently under investigation by the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights over concerns about how they handle sexual violence, federal officials confirmed to The Huffington Post on Thursday.
        Because of the federal investigations into rape at colleges, the colleges are becoming hyper sensitive to the accusations and have developed new methods of dealing with rape accusations. Hopefully, the days of them sweeping it under the rug are over and hopefully, allowing rapists to continue to attend school are over, when proven.

        UVA, which is in my neck of the woods, has been reeling from a serial rapist/serial killer, who finally, now after many years and five students dead in this area, is in jail. This guy was a student at two colleges and was reported at both for rape and he was just kicked out of both of those colleges and the police did nothing. Cited lack of evidence, even though one of the girls was hospitalized from being beaten and raped.

        So, he eventually made it to our neck of the woods, close to UVA and Fairfax area as well and several students of UVA disappeared without a trace in our area, one was brutally raped in Fairfax. One of the bodies was eventually found but no suspect. Then this recent student disappeared and she was in an area that had surveillance cameras and he was seen with her just before no one ever saw her again alive. He became the #1 suspect, has now been arrested and is now linked by DNA and evidence to at least two of our missing students and the rape victim. I think it's fair to say that he will never be free again, but think how those girls might have been spared had those two colleges where he first raped and beat students had done more than just sweep it under the rug. There are federal student privacy laws that they should take a look at so that other colleges can be aware before enrolling students, of their criminal background. I guarantee you there are more than just 5 missing students that can be linked to this guy.

        UVA student Hannah Graham FIFTH woman in 5 years to vanish along 'Route 29 corridor' | Daily Mail Online

        Chilling details surround suspect in U.Va. disappearance

        Hannah Graham's abductor Jesse Matthews 'expelled from University over rape claims' | Daily Mail Online

        University Of Virginia Wants Investigation Of Alleged 7-Member Fraternity Gang Rape

        55 colleges investigated over handling of sexual violence complaints - CNN.com

        Rolling Stone

        55 colleges under Title IX probe for handling of sexual violence and harassment claims - The Washington Post
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          It's probably a fabricated story, but there's no certainty either way now.
          Just like Lena Dunham right?
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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            Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

            Just like Lena Dunham right?
            I haven't read enough about Lena Dunham to comment, but I guess you are certain that if one girl false reports then all rape allegations must be false. The police are investigating this girl's story, which is as it should be.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Pretty shocking, isn't it? When you consider frats were shut down and all the protests and claims being made and the outrage about treatment of women at UVa...and investigations begun.

        It's an example of what happens when people take "stories" at face value. The story was not researched at all - the woman's claims were published as fact by the author and the magazine and believed by most who read it.

        The facts can be checked because this was 2 years ago - had it been 20 years ago there would be no way to check the facts. This woman's story was "believable", full of details...and it wasn't true. I think the magazine will find itself liable for this one and the writer should be out of a job.

        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Whatever happened to responsible reporting and more importantly, what the heck is wrong with the editor for allowing such a thing without asking the reporter for proven facts?

        I'm perplexed over that one.



        Terra


        Which is why I stopped reading anything OTHER than music related stories in that rag. It's like trusting "Hard Copy" for real news...

        Just my opinion, of course.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          There's the real problem with stories like this - people believe there "must be something to it". Even if the story is pure fabrication there will be those who say "but there's something there or she couldn't have made it up."

          There have been so many of these false claims from Brawley to sports teams on campus...skepticism should be the "go to" position on such stories but instead it seems many people are willing to believe the worst from the getgo.
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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            Many people imagine that they're "thinking" when in reality they're just re-arranging their own prejudices.

            .
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            • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              Many people imagine that they're "thinking" when in reality they're just re-arranging their own prejudices.

              .

              have to save this one, Alexa - brilliant statement and so true
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              • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
                Lies and made up stories ruin people's lives - which is why I take every single thing I read in the "news" with a grain of salt.

                I agree that Rolling Stone should stick to publishing music stories and nothing else.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Even if the story is pure fabrication there will be those who say "but there's something there or she couldn't have made it up."

            There have been so many of these false claims from Brawley to sports teams on campus...skepticism should be the "go to" position on such stories but instead it seems many people are willing to believe the worst from the getgo.
            Well, in reality, the reason 55 or 88 universities are under federal investigation for the way they handle rape cases is because they are not believed, not investigated and swept under the rug. Until the police have concluded their investigation of this one, no one can say whether or not it is a fabrication. The only new "evidence" is a rebuttal by the accused. I'm not willing to believe them any more than I'm willing to believe her without reason. One of the new "clues" was an administrator said that no event was planned for that weekend. Really? So, frat boys don't party unless it is a scheduled and planned event? Since when?
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            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              Well, in reality, the reason 55 or 88 universities are under federal investigation for the way they handle rape cases is because they are not believed, not investigated and swept under the rug. Until the police have concluded their investigation of this one, no one can say whether or not it is a fabrication. The only new "evidence" is a rebuttal by the accused. I'm not willing to believe them any more than I'm willing to believe her without reason. One of the new "clues" was an administrator said that no event was planned for that weekend. Really? So, frat boys don't party unless it is a scheduled and planned event? Since when?
              And maybe this one isn't true but from everything I've heard, 90-95% of rape charges are valid. Disbelieving them from the get-go seems the exact wrong way to go about dealing with this very serious problem and simply gives perps more room to operate with impunity.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                just 12 of the agency's 88 active Title IX investigations are of the kind UVA is facing.
                Last may the number reported by the media was 55....one month later another "credible" media source said 64.

                This week HuffPost reported:
                just 12 of the agency's 88 active Title IX investigations are of the kind UVA is facing.
                from everything I've heard, 90-95% of rape charges are valid
                In the past 20 yrs or so I've personally known 5 women who claimed to be raped. Three of them were raped - 2 were made up for personal reasons. One of them wanted to "get back at" her boyfriend - the other was afraid her parents would be mad when she became pregnant so claimed she was raped.

                I expect this particular story will be totally proven false - there were some serious issues for RS to back down as it has.

                Rape is a serious crime and a violent crime - andwhen people lie about being raped it hurts us all. It hurts men who are named when they've done nothing wrong - it hurts women who HAVE been raped and makes it harder for them to get help and be believed.

                It is not OK to claim rape or gang rape when it didn't happen. It is not OK to publish stories about horrific rapes without vetting facts or giving the accused the right to be heard. It is not OK to decide on guilt without going through the legal process.

                Rape can damage a woman's life - but false accusations damage lives, too.
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                  Last may the number reported by the media was 55....one month later another "credible" media source said 64.
                  Most of the reports say 55, but the number really doesn't matter much. It's 55 at least.

                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                  I expect this particular story will be totally proven false - there were some serious issues for RS to back down as it has.
                  There was one issue only and the reason they changed their stance was because many other media pundits criticized the piece, and they should have criticized it. RS did not name or contact the accused. The "accused" were not named in the article, and still have not been named. Jackie did in fact tell the same story to her friends and the administration, but no investigation occurred, and that is why UVA is under federal investigation previously .. because of their lack of action on rape reports.

                  There has been no denial or call for retraction issued by the school or local law enforcement authorities. Their investigations will run their course. And the issue of campus sexual assaults has been heightened by the story.
                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                  In the past 20 yrs or so I've personally known 5 women who claimed to be raped. Three of them were raped - 2 were made up for personal reasons. One of them wanted to "get back at" her boyfriend - the other was afraid her parents would be mad when she became pregnant so claimed she was raped.
                  In my entire life, I've never known someone who has been raped, or at least acknowledged it to me. That doesn't mean that I can conclude that rape doesn't exist.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Just a reminder that UVA was under a strict federal review of its sexual assault practices before the Rolling Stone piece ever came out and there are still way too many sexual assaults happening on our college campuses.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Just a reminder that UVA was under a strict federal review of its sexual assault practices before the Rolling Stone piece ever came out and there are still way too many sexual assaults happening on our college campuses.
      There always have been. Back when I was with the crisis center, the college campus was one of the most dangerous places in town for women after dark. What makes me furious now is that there are a lot of women who feel justified in turning in falsified rape claims and that really makes for a confounding situation.

      It's always been a hard issue, it's not a crime in which you can usually find witnesses. Most of what goes on in a rape, unless there is physical trauma showing, is all one word against the other. With an increased propensity for false claims being made, it's a complete minefield.

      I don't think I'd ever get back into crisis work in that area. Ever. It's gotten way to squirrely out there these years. There's a lot of feminists who don't care what they pull on men - and seem to think that men deserve anything that's dealt to them - even malicious prosecution. Unfortunately, there's still a lot of very bonafide rape going on, too.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    I wonder how many reported rapes are there per year in the USA?

    Are rape and sexual assault two different things?

    According to a CDC study ...

    "Defining rape as "completed forced penetration," "attempted forced penetration" or "completed alcohol- or drug-facilitated penetration," ...

    ...researchers found that approximately 19.3 percent of American women and 1.7 percent of American men have been raped in their lifetimes.

    That means that almost one in five women in the U.S. has been raped. That's over 23 million women."

    Also from the report...

    "An estimated 1.6 percent of women surveyed reported being raped in the previous year, which suggests that over 1.9 million American women are victims of rape or attempted rape every year when applied to the broader population. This is consistent with other estimates."

    If those numbers reflect reality, then over 5,000 women get raped or sexually assaulted each and every day in the USA.

    That would be 100 per state per day.

    Is it truly 1 in 5 woman have been and will be raped if the historic and present trend continues?

    Are rape/sexual assaults under reported?

    I understand this is a big, populous country but even if the suggested numbers are only half right IMHO that's still way too many incidents for a so-called civilized society and the chance of it happening to someone are still way too high.

    Are other countries generating the same, better or worse numbers?




    Nearly 1 In 5 Women Are Raped In Their Lifetimes, Says Report
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  • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
    Now it looks like even more was fabricated than they originally thought.

    Rolling Stone’s UVA disaster just got a whole lot worse - Salon.com
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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      Originally Posted by joe golfer View Post

      Now it looks like even more was fabricated than they originally thought.

      Rolling Stone's UVA disaster just got a whole lot worse - Salon.com
      It looks like more of the truth is coming out now. The University should have done this investigation two years ago. Would have saved themselves some grief and the Rolling Stones should get rid of that reporter.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        But, as usual, the Salon article tries to bend the impact a bit.

        And so it makes a poor rebuttal against stories of sexual assault in general.
        I don't think that at all - it should make people think twice before jumping in to condemn a person or a place of terrible crimes based on undocumented stories.

        I think this story shows just how far some people will go to get attention - to pursue their own unknown agenda or perhaps to damage those they didn't like in the past (or who didn't like them).

        I often read where people say "they couldn't make that stuff up" - yet authors of books make up sex scenes all the time. it's not hard to do and when people are willing to believe you it's easy to make it bigger and bigger....
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          I don't think that at all - it should make people think twice before jumping in to condemn a person or a place of terrible crimes based on undocumented stories.
          The story was "undocumented" because UVA chose to ignore the rape report when it was reported, as they had a habit of doing. That's why a lot of universities have the feds looking into the way rape on campus is handled. Handle it the way it should be handled and they wouldn't have this problem. They would have already investigated her report and found it to be lacking in facts.

          The fact is, most rape on campus goes unreported. Because one girl was seeking attention and made up stories, does not negate the problem of unreported rape on campus.

          DOJ: 80 percent of campus rapes unreported | TheHill
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            The story was "undocumented" because UVA chose to ignore the rape report when it was reported, as they had a habit of doing. That's why a lot of universities have the feds looking into the way rape on campus is handled. Handle it the way it should be handled and they wouldn't have this problem. They would have already investigated her report and found it to be lacking in facts.
            So I guess even though the RS story is turning out to be BS, it has perhaps shed a little light on a bigger issue (how the issue is handled on campus). What IS it with college campuses and sex crimes anyway?


            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            The fact is, most rape on campus goes unreported. Because one girl was seeking attention and made up stories, does not negate the problem of unreported rape on campus.

            DOJ: 80 percent of campus rapes unreported | TheHill
            While that is true, the unfortunate thing is perhaps it will make women who are raped even less likely to report it because of fear of not being believed - or worse - blamed.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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              Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

              So I guess even though the RS story is turning out to be BS, it has perhaps shed a little light on a bigger issue (how the issue is handled on campus). What IS it with college campuses and sex crimes anyway?

              While that is true, the unfortunate thing is perhaps it will make women who are raped even less likely to report it because of fear of not being believed - or worse - blamed.
              I think with colleges that they have a huge reputation that they don't want tarnished and having rape at their schools publicized, they fear loss of enrollments and loss of reputation. UVA is a very fine university with an excellent reputation. These DOJ investigations will only help the universities in the long run to get their act together and report and investigate rape as it should be.

              But you're right about it making women even less likely to report rape. They've already experienced one horrendous trauma and most know what's in store if they report. There's the chance of not being believed. If it gets to court, the defense will drag her through the mud to make it appear that she is responsible for being raped. I honestly don't know if I would report it myself given those circumstances.
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              • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                I think with colleges that they have a huge reputation that they don't want tarnished and having rape at their schools publicized, they fear loss of enrollments and loss of reputation. UVA is a very fine university with an excellent reputation. These DOJ investigations will only help the universities in the long run to get their act together and report and investigate rape as it should be.

                But you're right about it making women even less likely to report rape. They've already experienced one horrendous trauma and most know what's in store if they report. There's the chance of not being believed. If it gets to court, the defense will drag her through the mud to make it appear that she is responsible for being raped. I honestly don't know if I would report it myself given those circumstances.

                I have a family member who was raped at the age of 12 by a school employee. Her parents (after medical treatment) went to the police, the school, etc. They were enraged. They were advised to let it drop because defense attorneys would make her life a living hell. Even at 12, they would have made it seem like she asked for it.

                Despicable.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  There was a time when cases weren't pursued because parents and prosecutors were reluctant to put a young victim on the stand in court. There was a a time when victim identities were not protected.

                  I don't understand the claims of DOJ. If 80% of rapes are unreported - how does the DOJ know about them? How do you put a number on cases if those cases are never reported???

                  We have a tendency to go overboard any time there's a big new story in the media. The DOJ publishes an "80%" number and the next article claims "4 out of 5 women are raped according to a study by DOJ"....and people believe it.
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    There was a time when cases weren't pursued because parents and prosecutors were reluctant to put a young victim on the stand in court. There was a a time when victim identities were not protected.

                    I don't understand the claims of DOJ. If 80% of rapes are unreported - how does the DOJ know about them? How do you put a number on cases if those cases are never reported???

                    We have a tendency to go overboard any time there's a big new story in the media. The DOJ publishes an "80%" number and the next article claims "4 out of 5 women are raped according to a study by DOJ"....and people believe it.
                    By conducting a study that used the National Crime Victimization Survey.

                    Full study here
                    http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf

                    Studies and surveys are how most statistics are gathered.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
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                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                      By conducting a study that used the National Crime Victimization Survey.

                      Full study here
                      http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf

                      Studies and surveys are how most statistics are gathered.
                      I sometimes wonder if these surveys do more harm than good.

                      Case in point, there has been one that claimed 1 out of 5 women are getting raped on campus. Now that always seemed rather high to me. That is the stat you can seen thrown around most days and probably one that is fueling this supposedly epidemic of rape on campus hysteria.

                      Now, you have a new DOJ survey saying it is closer to 6.1 in 1000 or .03 in 5. To me, that seems more believable compared to the 1 in 5.

                      http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf

                      What is also interesting, is that non students are more apt to be raped than students.

                      Well, according to that survey.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      Except even in the DOJ report it mentions the questions of that study are perhaps not easy to quantify.

                      More importantly - How does the DOJ measure it's own "rape is increasing" reports with what it reported in May of 2013?

                      The Justice Department says the rate of sexual violence against women and girls age 12 or older fell 64 percent in a decade and has remained stable for five years.

                      In 2010, women and girls nationwide experienced about 270,000 rapes or sexual assaults, compared with 556,000 in 1995, according to a Bureau of Justice Statistics survey released Thursday.
                      Sexual Violence Against Women Down 64 Percent In Decade, But Worrisome Rape Trends Remain

                      How does that make sense? Sounds like the DOJ didn't think "good - fewer rapes are occurring" but instead decided "it's bad that fewer rapes are being reported".
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