"Communist" China Now World's Biggest Economy

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China's forrmer premier Deng Xiao Ping's favorite expression was, "It doesn't matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice." I guess another way of saying that is "The proof is in the pudding." Evidence based approaches trump ideological dogma every time.

It’s official: America is now No. 2
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    OK...

    Population:

    China 1.357 billion (2013)

    U.S. 316.1 mullion (2013)

    Gross domestic product at purchasing power parity per capita...







    National Weath (net)



    List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    National wealth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

    Evidence based approaches trump ideological dogma every time.
    A common behavior with many (most or all?) politicians in all (most?) countries throughout history.

    OK, I'm reading a book about the beginnings of WW's 1 and 2. The blunders, downright hypocrisy, and examples of trumped values/ideological dogma are breathtaking.


    Ken
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      Ken,

      Here is a video series by financial historian Niall Ferguson. This is part 1 of 6.


      If you watch the first 3 minutes and 40 seconds you will know if this is for you.

      By-the-way, the first World War was the beginning of the decline of the "West" and the beginning of the (re)rise of the East.

      The War of the World -- Episode 1

      Joe Mobley
      P.S. If you, or anyone watches this and wants to share about it, start a new thread and I'll jump in.




      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

      A common behavior with many (most or all?) politicians in all (most?) countries throughout history.

      OK, I'm reading a book about the beginnings of WW's 1 and 2. The blunders, downright hypocrisy, and examples of trumped values/ideological dogma are breathtaking.


      Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Hmmm...

    The Chinese have three times the population we have.
    They have a work force that borders on slave labor.
    The don't respect patents, trademarks, or copyrights.
    Their government provides startup funding for new ventures based on what we'd call the crony system.

    There's more but I'd say since they really don't play fair (I realize fair is subjective) it's no wonder they're ahead. And the thing that keeps them moving forward: Drum roll......

    Americans. We buy more of their stuff than anyone else. Pass the exploding melon, please.
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    • Profile picture of the author Electrical
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      Hmmm...

      The Chinese have three times the population we have.
      They have a work force that borders on slave labor.
      The don't respect patents, trademarks, or copyrights.
      Their government provides startup funding for new ventures based on what we'd call the crony system.

      There's more but I'd say since they really don't play fair (I realize fair is subjective) it's no wonder they're ahead. And the thing that keeps them moving forward: Drum roll......

      Americans. We buy more of their stuff than anyone else. Pass the exploding melon, please.
      Stop that.

      I hate when people use facts and logic to fight communism. It's almost unfair.
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by Electrical View Post

        Stop that.

        I hate when people use facts and logic to fight communism. It's almost unfair.
        Thanks for the compliment but I don't think you can call them communist anymore. There's a name for the type of capitalism that has the government as the decision makers. Japan has had it for many years. The US is gravitating toward it and picking up speed. The Chinese system is similar to Japan's but as I've mentioned, they have virtually no regard for fair play.
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        • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
          I was trying to imitate The Onion when I started this thread. Oh well, try, try again.

          Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

          Thanks for the compliment but I don't think you can call them communist anymore. There's a name for the type of capitalism that has the government as the decision makers. Japan has had it for many years. The US is gravitating toward it and picking up speed. The Chinese system is similar to Japan's but as I've mentioned, they have virtually no regard for fair play.
          It is "Socialism with Chinese characteristics," I think you hit the nail on the head with your analysis here.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

            I was trying to imitate The Onion when I started this thread. Oh well, try, try again.



            It is "Socialism with Chinese characteristics," I think you hit the nail on the head with your analysis here.
            The onion, 50 years ago would have been a FARSE! The way things are going, it is going to get more and more real! EXAMPLE? The onion once said it was sold to CHINA! We have SINCE had large US MEDIA sold to AL JAZEER and RUSSIA!!!!!!!!!

            It is UNREAL, but TRUE!

            Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        Originally Posted by Electrical View Post

        Stop that.

        I hate when people use facts and logic to fight communism. It's almost unfair.
        I hate when people use facts and logic to fight [Fill In With Almost Any Topic]. It's almost unfair.

        I hate when people use facts and logic to [ fight/ debunk/ point out the hypocrisy ] [Fill In With Almost Any Topic]. It's almost unfair.

        Example:

        Don't you hate it when people use facts and logic to debunk anti-vaxxers.

        I could go on.

        Joe Mobley
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        • Profile picture of the author Electrical
          Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

          I could go on.
          Please do.
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          • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
            @Electrical,

            I'm in, start a thread.

            Joe Mobley
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    T ravelingguy -- Exactly what I was thinking. If their system of labor is what it takes to get ahead...........they can stay there. I'd be moving out of the US if I were treated like their labor force is.

    I also absolutely refuse to buy anything from China........especially food. It will be a cold day in hell before I eat any of that noxious waste.
    Signature

    Sal
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    • Profile picture of the author Electrical
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I also absolutely refuse to buy anything from China.
      I didn't think that was even possible anymore.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Electrical View Post

        I didn't think that was even possible anymore.
        It is. Sometimes you have to find out if a particular manufacturer uses parts from there, etc. With food it's really simple. You eat local grown, well labeled, organic food - and buy at a store they can tell you where the food comes from. Other stuff takes some research, but I find it worth my money not to support that overgrown human factory farm of a country.
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        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

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        • Profile picture of the author Electrical
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          It is. Sometimes you have to find out if a particular manufacturer uses parts from there, etc. With food it's really simple. You eat local grown, well labeled, organic food - and buy at a store they can tell you where the food comes from. Other stuff takes some research, but I find it worth my money not to support that overgrown human factory farm of a country.
          I'll never forget, it was probably almost 30 years ago when my father bought his first fax machine and he paid a lot of money for an AT&T model because it was made in America. More money, less features, but he didn't care, he was proud of it being American made.

          As we were taking it out of the box, the phone cord that came with it had a label that said "Made in China". Me, being the little jerk I was, never let him live that down.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Electrical, and others,

    For over 35 years the US has not REALLY had a pure electronic industry. I don't know for sure when it happened BUT, by the time the 1980s rolled around, the us sent a LOT of stuff ABROAD! Parts are made in Mexico, Various parts of europe, various parts of asia, etc... And YES, a good chunk is from CHINA at this point. So good luck finding any new electronics that is 100% US made. My heart SANK one day, and I was VERY UPSET when I found that TI was going to LEAVE the STILL viable 256Mb memory market, and upgrade everything to the newer technology.

    WHY was I so upset? You ******NEVER******* leave a viable market, because you will lose customers, etc... So what did TI do? They sold the technology, equipment, etc... to KOREA, and had THEM sell chips to TI. So KOREA got a head start, and people buying from a US company got chips made in korea!

    If you don't see how this can snowball, INTEL wanted to leave the STILL VIABLE 286 market! THEY SOLD the 286 technology, WHICH CONTRACTUALLY ALLOWED SELLING AND UPGRADES, to some companies. MOST left, went under, or were bought up but ONE that you might know, that is STILL around, and fighting, is AMD! AMD has been nipping at intels heels ever since. INTEL eventually #$%^&* out of the contract with AMD, but NOT before AMD managed to emulate EVERYTHING in a legally sanitary way.

    Anyway, this is a MAJOR reason why china is doing so well today. ALSO, CHINA is selling industrial waste to the US because, frankly, it seems like the US government doesn't care about CHINA so flagrantly breaking various US laws. So they have stuff that can even be DEADLY, and they are selling it as even FOOD in the US. Consumer reports found poisoned protein supplements!(They are apparently one of the biggest suppliers of "Whey concentrate", so BE CAREFUL if you see it.) Babies have gotten sick, and have been injured. Animals have DIED! But nobody seems to care. And apparently china DOES care more about their citizens. Stuff they wouldn't feed THEIR citizens, they will GLADLY sell to US for the SAME purposes.

    BTW New Zealand, Australia, and some US producers ALSO create whey concentrate for the US market and companies, but THEY aren't tainted! The chinese ones are tainted with things like lead and cadmium. At least in protein for PETS, they add a component used in some plastics because it is cheap and makes the product seem like it has a higher protein content. It is ALSO POISONOUS!

    YEP, it is NO surprise how China got so rich. STILL, many of their people are SUFFERING.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    They were selling tainted chinese watermelons out here not long ago. I keep track of that kind of thing and asked at a store I was in that was having a sale on watermelons where there were from. China. Go figure. Toxic crap over here so buy it cheap and sell it to us on sale. I've about had it with this country and it's anything goes for the bucks attitude. If we could get everyone on the same page we could still tank that country pretty badly. I'd say it's time to do so.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      They were selling tainted chinese watermelons out here not long ago. I keep track of that kind of thing and asked at a store I was in that was having a sale on watermelons where there were from. China. Go figure. Toxic crap over here so buy it cheap and sell it to us on sale. I've about had it with this country and it's anything goes for the bucks attitude. If we could get everyone on the same page we could still tank that country pretty badly. I'd say it's time to do so.
      Yeah, the US government has done a LOT of things that just hurt EVERYONE! Frankly, one of their jobs is PROTECT THE BORDERS! In fact, that is the BIGGEST ONE! THAT is why we have a border at canada and at mexico! It is the reason why we have a coastguard! It is the reason really why we have ANY military.

      It is ******ALSO******* the reason for ANOTHER thing mentioned in the constitution and a job of the federal government! DUTIES!!!!! They should be charging China HIGH duties, but they get really low ones.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author WalkingCarpet
    Banned
    China was always gonna be number 1, just a matter of when.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    "Evidence based approaches trump ideological dogma every time."

    That, of course, is a loaded statement. A declarative "fact" but, actually, total BS. If using evidence, one would see a lot of really ugly stuff along with the growth and progress, eg massive pollution, workers getting poisoned in the process of production due to a lack of work-place safety conditons. Using the term "ideological dogma" pre-emptively uses a derogatory blanket term to cancel-out such concepts as "values" and "human rights."

    I did that in my attempt to imitate the faux serious tone of The Onion, but it was a dud.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Not strictly on topic but I saw a documentary once about how they use their prison populations as workers to make all manner of things and do all kinds of stuff. I think they have rather longer prison sentences too so they get quite a bit out of all that free labour.

      Over here we give our prisoners nice food, pool tables and play stations, computers and even a nice gym and a yard to get a tan in summer.

      Our prisons are much nicer, so nice some people don't want to leave. I'm glad our prisons are nice like that.

      ...No. Wait a second....
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      • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
        Communism, labels and crap that don't mean crap.

        Socialist, and blah, blah , blah.

        Arabs and Religion over there is bad, er, um, except when corporate owners become trillionaires selling oil to willing customers.

        Seems like NONE of that(communism) has or will stop "corporations" from getting filthy rich by building factories over there and giving them the patents as fast as they are invented over here.

        Most are screwing most, so PLEASE quiet the elitist, puritan finger pointing.

        England screws its peasants back in the day...,

        Peasants get over here and screw the Indians and kidnap slaves...,

        Opium is sold to China..., but they were businessmen, supported by their government, providing a product in demand, not street-dirt scum like those intercity fellers...., there's a difference, you see...,

        Irish come to replace blacks.....,

        Italians come for cheaper labor than Irish....,

        Chain gangs are used for labor and in prison, still used today, hell, to even process credit card issues...,

        Latinos are used to bust the unions and bring down the labor market...,

        Work is outsourced to China and India for even cheaper labor and corporations can disregard mosts safety or any other regulations while dumping all the toxins they want....,

        "Reduce taxes and regulation" on corporations means "what we are allowed to do in china, we want to do here"...,

        The same forked tongue dim wits who talk about protecting borders are the same ones going to home depot looking for workers and/or advertising in "american" classifieds for jobs with "must be Bilingual"

        Child labor history well documented before unions....,

        Someone sitting on their ass collecting $600 in food stamps,.... ok, ....bad, but private corporations with outrages, legally fraudulent charges on city, state and federal contracts are ok..., like a .001 cent screw they get from china, they can charge the government/taxpayers upwards of $30 per screw and there may be 50,000 screws just to build a war plane,and thats just the screw..., but the welfare guy brought america to its economic knees..,

        Wall street fraud and welfare is ok..,

        Guys economically collapes the world, legally steal trillions, and , um, who is in jail again? Oh, is it the secretary who did'nt dot the "i", because if she did THAT, they would NOT have profited trillions and would have backed off..., r-r-r-r-r-i-i-i-i-i-g-g-g-g-h-h-h-h-t

        A Trillion dollars gets missing every other year or so from the government, but thats ok, harp on the food stamp people..., if we don't stop welfare, they will collapse the galaxy as we know it.

        "Billions" in trade between USA and Russia, our "communist" enemies during cold war...,

        And if there is a profit to be made suggested by your or anyones financial advisor on any market whether, communist, socialist or totalitarian, they are IN before flynn...,

        The dulles brothers, creators of the oss turned into the cia, use the influence of their ultra-rich clients to start most wars specifically and solely to protect their "clients" financial interests in those countries...,

        China, filthy communist enemy, axis of evil and all that jazz, is being forced fed multiple billions by corporations to spite workers over here and get stupid rich..., a capitalist would say "not following you, let me know when you get to the bad part of this equation...,"

        Waving a flag, wearing a pin and saying support the troops makes one a real american...,...more like FAKE patriotism, hey, WHO are you trying to impress with your "made in china" american flag???

        Rah, rah, rah...,94 Percent Of American Flags Imported Into The U.S. Last Year Came From China

        Yeah, so with that history, people are picking on americans cause they just jealous of our lifestyle.., not the "OTHER" stuff.....,

        Dog circles left, can't catch tail, dog circles right, can't catch tail, keep historically chasing symptoms to solve problems...,

        Problem defined: problem is guy won't shut up after one has stolen from him, hmmmm, what to do, what to do, about this guy crying he was stolen from...,?

        The internet does not have enough electrons to lists the two-faced lies, liars, hypocrites and irony of history....,

        ...so......,

        WTF are people talking about again?


        The 13th Warrior
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  • Profile picture of the author Sumit Menon
    China is as communist (economically) as Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic.
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