ISIS GUNMAN HOLDING UP CAFE IN SYDNEY! OPERA HOUSE EVACUATED!

HeySal

9 years ago

Is that near you Chris? I don't know where Namia is.

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Chris Worner

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Is that near you Chris? I don't know where Namia is.

lol Sal, it says Narnia as in the lion the witch and the warddrobe.

I live in Melbourne.

Here is a live feed from the site;

https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watc...0/yahoo7-live/

-Chris

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HeySal

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Worner

lol Sal, it says Narnia as in the lion the witch and the warddrobe.

I live in Melbourne.

Here is a live feed from the site;

https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watc...0/yahoo7-live/

-Chris

Ho heck. I hate this font. "n" often looks like "r i" "rn"? That's much differigent from "m" how?

Moot points.

I'm glad you have police on top of it. I'm so sorry there weren't any armed citizens in that shop to take this yahoo out at the start. Good energy going to the people trapped by these (this?) sociopath(s). I sooo hope they make it out alive and their captors don't.

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discrat 9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I'm so sorry there weren't any armed citizens in that shop to take this yahoo out at the start.

I just soon not have the old OK corral around with people shooting each other and bullets flying everywhere.

Death rates would probably be higher with a bunch of trigger happy citizens toting guns. I just do not have enough faith in my fellow citizens to trust them with guns and trying to act like Rambo when most just do not have a clue in how to handle a gun in a situation like this. Big difference in going to gun range and being in the room with a violent terrorist

Lets keep Guns out of it and let the Police take this crazy a-hole out !
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- whateverpedia 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by discrat
  
  Lets keep Guns out of it and let the Police take this crazy a-hole out !
  
  Exactly.......
  
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Joe Mobley

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I'm so sorry there weren't any armed citizens in that shop to take this yahoo out at the start.

I'm sorry, I'm going with Sal on this. An armed, off duty officer would have been an asset in this situation.

Joe Mobley

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HeySal

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Mobley

I'm sorry, I'm going with Sal on this. An armed, off duty officer would have been an asset in this situation.

Joe Mobley

An armed anyone could have cut this off before 2 were killed. A lot of attacks in the US are cut off by citizens who are armed -- something our media never talks about here, but where we have concealed carriers in this country, the people who barge public places don't usually get all that far.

Now that I got that editorial in LOL (sorry)......... here's my question........
WTF are Australian officials thinking when they give asylum to this kind of jackel? They were completely flat-lining if they didn't expect any trouble out of this dipstick.

Monis, who was granted political asylum in Australia, was on bail for a string of violent offences, including being an accessory to the murder of his ex-wife.
He was also facing more than 40 sexual and indecent assault charges and had a conviction for sending offensive letters to families of deceased Australian soldiers.

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Joe Mobley

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

An armed anyone could have cut this off before 2 were killed. A lot of attacks in the US are cut off by citizens who are armed -- something our media never talks about here, but where we have concealed carriers in this country, the people who barge public places don't usually get all that far.

A fair and accurate point.

Originally Posted by HeySal

Now that I got that editorial in LOL (sorry)......... here's my question........
WTF are Australian officials thinking when they give asylum to this kind of jackel? They were completely flat-lining if they didn't expect any trouble out of this dipstick.

Unfortunately, 2014 will go down as the year of the "PC Police". "Better to be over cautious than offend someone."

That doesn't seem to be working out very well... here or in Australia.

Joe Mobley

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

An armed anyone could have cut this off before 2 were killed. A lot of attacks in the US are cut off by citizens who are armed -- something our media never talks about here, but where we have concealed carriers in this country, the people who barge public places don't usually get all that far.

Now that I got that editorial in LOL (sorry)......... here's my question........
WTF are Australian officials thinking when they give asylum to this kind of jackel? They were completely flat-lining if they didn't expect any trouble out of this dipstick.

Such asylum is mandated by the UN. Get ready for more, they mandated more for the US. These things are pretty much world wide.

Steve

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whateverpedia 9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Is that near you Chris? I don't know where Namia is.

It's pretty much right in the middle of the Sydney CBD. I used to work about 500 metres from where this is taking place. That was back in 2004.
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whateverpedia

9 years ago

For those on Twitter, the stream is #sydneysiege

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seasoned

9 years ago

MAN, why are they taking hostages at a cafe? I guess if they want to do this, Australia is one of the best places to do it. Gun use is VERY restrictive there and wikipedia says only about 5% own SOME kind of gun, and most aren't semi automatic. SO FUNCTIONALLY, in this case, that 5% might be more like 0.5%, since most of the rest would be more complicated rifles. STILL, what do they expect to do? This can't even really terrorize, since the police could surround the place and the culprits wouldn't get out alive.

Apparently the police caught someone and the group is probably going to make it clear the guy is guilty by demanding his release. If I were the police, I might bring him out only to help negotiations, but I wouldn't let ANY get away. They would all end up dead or in jail. And if they were in jail, this would be more evidence of guilt, and provide more charges.

Steve

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MissTerraK 9 years ago

I just heard this on breaking news:

Hostages inside the cafe have been forced to hold what appears to be an Islamic flag, identified as a shahada flag, in the cafe's window reading "no god worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad is his messenger".

OMGosh! OMGosh!

Terra
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whateverpedia

9 years ago

Obviously all Australian media outlets are covering this. Here's a list:

National
ABC
The Australian
The Guardian
Channel 7
Channel 9
Channel 10

Local Sydney
The Daily Telegraph
The Sydney Morning Herald

Global
BBC

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whateverpedia

9 years ago

Latest word is that this is a botched operation. There's news reports of anti-terror raids conducted earlier this morning across Sydney's western suburbs.

Apparently the panic button was hit and interrupted the terrorist (it's safe to describe him as such), and in a a panic he walked into the coffee shop and did what he did.

There's some speculation as to where the intended target was. As I mentioned earlier, this is pretty much the centre of Syney's CBD. There are a number of high profile buildings within walking distance of where this is taking place, including the Reserve Bank headquarters, the U.S. consulate, and the studio that Channel 7 broadcasts its Breakfast Show from.

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tagiscom 9 years ago

Hmmm, scary stuff, Lindt is certainly getting a lot of free publicity, probably not good, but time will tell?
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- seasoned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by tagiscom
  
  Hmmm, scary stuff, Lindt is certainly getting a lot of free publicity, probably not good, but time will tell?
  
  This is the best kind of publicity anyone could ask for!!!!!! I mean GOOD publicity about your place often costs money, unless someone in power REALLY likes your product, or you do something fantastic, It is relatively rare. BAD publicity, of course can HURT you!
  
  THIS is neither good NOR bad, but people WILL remember them! At least ONE good thing comes of this!
  
  Steve
  
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wn123

9 years ago

This will be over in no time. Australians are the best at dealing with these kind of situations.

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positivenegative

9 years ago

Originally Posted by wn123

This will be over in no time. Australians are the best at dealing with these kind of situations.

There is no "these kind of situations". Every incident is different, and where fanatical IS or ISIS (whatever you want to call them) are concerned you don't know what to expect next . . . apart from bloodshed and loss of life that is.

"This will be over in no time" is a rash statement, and being gung-ho in your assertion that Australians are the best in these situations helps nothing and no-one.

I'm sure we all collectively wish for an outcome where no lives are lost.

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wn123

9 years ago

Originally Posted by positivenegative

There is no "these kind of situations". Every incident is different, and where fanatical IS or ISIS (whatever you want to call them) are concerned you don't know what to expect next . . . apart from bloodshed and loss of life that is.

"This will be over in no time" is a rash statement, and being gung-ho in your assertion that Australians are the best in these situations helps nothing and no-one.

I'm sure we all collectively wish for an outcome where no lives are lost.

I'm good at reading these type of situations and I'm sure this will be over in a matter of hours. I would say there is likely to be just one "terrorist" holding the people hostage so it shouldn't be too hard to take him out. I might be wrong but I doubt it.

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laurencewins

9 years ago

Originally Posted by wn123

I'm good at reading these type of situations and I'm sure this will be over in a matter of hours. I would say there is likely to be just one "terrorist" holding the people hostage so it shouldn't be too hard to take him out. I might be wrong but I doubt it.

You "might be wrong?" Well, right now it has been going for around 10 hours with no signs of stopping. There is just one of him but he is very careful.

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Richard Van 9 years ago

There is something seriously ironic about the Shahada flag slightly out of view and Lindt Merry Christmas proudly slap bang in the centre of the image.

Lindt; Beating terrorism.

I sincerely hope this situation ends peacefully as soon as possible.
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seasoned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by laurencewins

You "might be wrong?" Well, right now it has been going for around 10 hours with no signs of stopping. There is just one of him but he is very careful.

Not THAT careful! He went into a place where he is CORNERED! Oh SURE, he has hostages that might not be ones he is free to kill. But BIG DEAL! He COULD have gone to a more secluded spot and stayed low, almost like the boston bomber. If the BB didn't leave so many clues, or that guy didn't show up, he might have just disappeared. There IS the idea that is generally true in battles, wars, and terrorism, that it is better to be free and undiscovered to fight later.

Steve
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positivenegative 9 years ago

Originally Posted by wn123

This will be over in no time. Australians are the best at dealing with these kind of situations.

Originally Posted by wn123

I'm good at reading these type of situations and I'm sure this will be over in a matter of hours. .

Yeah. Looks like you were right . . . NOT!

As I said before, fools like you - spouting personal (wrongly thought out) opinions, cause more distress than anything else. Lives were lost, despite your masterful "reading" of the situation.

In future, please stick with posting in other forums, not the OTF.

PS . . . I wouldn't want YOU selecting my NFL picks this weekend.
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by positivenegative

There is no "these kind of situations". Every incident is different, and where fanatical IS or ISIS (whatever you want to call them) are concerned you don't know what to expect next . . . apart from bloodshed and loss of life that is.

"This will be over in no time" is a rash statement, and being gung-ho in your assertion that Australians are the best in these situations helps nothing and no-one.

I'm sure we all collectively wish for an outcome where no lives are lost.

Yeah, that is the only reason the police didn't just shoot the terrorists. The hostages lives ARE in danger. I hope NONE of them get so much as a scratch. I don't care about the terrorists. They want to spread terror, so THEY should get terror IN KIND! Being surrounded by a lot of cops that can get full reinforcements and are honor bound to contain them, EVEN IF THEY HAVE TO SHOOT TO KILL, should give them a decent dose of terror. I mean there is no reason why the chance of the terrorists failing shouldn't be about 100%! It is only a matter of time.

Steve

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HeySal

9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Yeah, that is the only reason the police didn't just shoot the terrorists. The hostages lives ARE in danger. I hope NONE of them get so much as a scratch. I don't care about the terrorists. They want to spread terror, so THEY should get terror IN KIND! Being surrounded by a lot of cops that can get full reinforcements and are honor bound to contain them, EVEN IF THEY HAVE TO SHOOT TO KILL, should give them a decent dose of terror. I mean there is no reason why the chance of the terrorists failing shouldn't be about 100%! It is only a matter of time.

Steve

Don't forget, Steve - many of these terrorists begin their brainwashing at very early ages and suicide is not a problem for most of them. They will take down hostages even if they know they are going out with them.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Don't forget, Steve - many of these terrorists begin their brainwashing at very early ages and suicide is not a problem for most of them. They will take down hostages even if they know they are going out with them.

RIGHT! Just another reason to take care of it ASAP!

Steve

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MissTerraK

9 years ago

What I can't seem to grasp is the hate. I can't understand the pure hatred these terrorists exhibit not just in this case, but in them all. 911, Boston Bombing, etc.

My heart and prayers go out for all involved, though.

Terra

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

What I can't seem to grasp is the hate. I can't understand the pure hatred these terrorists exhibit not just in this case, but in them all. 911, Boston Bombing, etc.

My heart and prayers go out for all involved, though.

Terra

Yeah, TELL ME ABOUT IT! Many wonder what EVIL is. THAT is EVIL! Doing bad just to do bad! I could say more, but it would likely be considered religious, maybe political, maybe culturally offensive even though it really should be NONE of the above. C'est la vie.

BTW The UN is mandating that this be spread all over. There is a NEW wave of it coming to the US! SERIOUSLY! ALSO, as of today, the DOJ said that at least FIFTY "american citizens" have gone to join ISIS!

Steve

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

What I can't seem to grasp is the hate. I can't understand the pure hatred these terrorists exhibit not just in this case, but in them all. 911, Boston Bombing, etc.

My heart and prayers go out for all involved, though.

Terra

Terra, these guys are so delusional and many in my opinion are psychopaths, at least the ones leading these Hate groups. They have zero empathy towards human life and have these grandiose feelings that they and their dogma are above everyone else and they will do ANYTHING to ANYONE to get what they want. That's a psychopath in my book

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socialentry Banned 9 years ago

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seasoned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by wn123

This will be over in no time. Australians are the best at dealing with these kind of situations.

Yeah, I think the terrorists did EVERYTHING wrong, and boxed themselves in!

Steve
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WalkingCarpet Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by wn123

This will be over in no time. Australians are the best at dealing with these kind of situations.

This breaks my heart.
Oz was about the only major nation that hadn't been touched by terrorism. Now thanks to ISIS it's changed.
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HeySal

9 years ago

I hope the hostages are okay in the end - as far as the terrorist - no so much. Take him out so he can't repeat this with worse consequences.

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whateverpedia

9 years ago

I had a scary thought earlier. I didn't want to post it then as the event was still unfolding.

Now, as the area has been evacuated and closed off, the thought I had was that I couldn't help wonder that this event was a decoy.

Hundreds of people would have to be moved, most would try to get home by using one of the five railway stations in the CBD (Wynyard, Circular Quay, Town Hall, St James and Museum). Of these all but Circular Quay are underground.

Hundreds of people pouring into a confined space underground, trying to get on packed trains. Images of Madrid and London sprang to mind.

Luckily it's just one lone whackaloon operating alone and doesn't appear (at this stage) to be part of a bigger plan.

I hope the innocent people being held hostage get out of this without harm. If any harm befalls the whackaloon, then oh dear, how sad, never mind.

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Richard Van

9 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

I had a scary thought earlier. I didn't want to post it then as the event was still unfolding.

Now, as the area has been evacuated and closed off, the thought I had was that I couldn't help wonder that this event was a decoy.

Hundreds of people would have to be moved, most would try to get home by using one of the five railway stations in the CBD (Wynyard, Circular Quay, Town Hall, St James and Museum). Of these all but Circular Quay are underground.

Hundreds of people pouring into a confined space underground, trying to get on packed trains. Images of Madrid and London sprang to mind.

Luckily it's just one lone whackaloon operating alone and doesn't appear (at this stage) to be part of a bigger plan.

I hope the innocent people being held hostage get out of this without harm. If any harm befalls the whackaloon, then oh dear, how sad, never mind.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. I've heard all sorts so far but I keep hearing about 2 bombs in the cafe and 2 somewhere else. It made me think others were involved. When I saw all the people evacuated and standing in Hyde Park I couldn't help thinking it wasn't a good idea.

Fortunately it does appear to be one person, at least it does so far.

Either way it's not showing much sign of coming to an end soon which I wish it would.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

I had a scary thought earlier. I didn't want to post it then as the event was still unfolding.

Now, as the area has been evacuated and closed off, the thought I had was that I couldn't help wonder that this event was a decoy.

I had the same idea, but there are a LOT of reasons to cordon off the area, LITERALLY, and check. They likely DO have ways to automate surveillance.

Steve

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HeySal

9 years ago

It can't go on forever - sooner or later that guy is going to need to sleep. If he gets tired and sluggish enough, perhaps the hostages can just overpower him. If he starts killing them, they need no matter what. From what I've heard - it's 40 to a lone terrorist.

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Richard Van

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

It can't go on forever - sooner or later that guy is going to need to sleep. If he gets tired and sluggish enough, perhaps the hostages can just overpower him. If he starts killing them, they need no matter what. From what I've heard - it's 40 to a lone terrorist.

If one attacks I think you'll get a ripple effect and they might all do it. I'd like to think if I saw him doze off I'd jump him too but of course being there is altogether different.

Having said that, throughout history there have been many occasions when a few people with guns led vastly larger numbers of people to their deaths.

My hope is he simply falls asleep and there are a few useful Aussies in there that take their chances. Naturally I don't want anyone hurt (Except the hostage taker) but there will be something gloriously Australian about a few chaps and ladies leading the gunman out at his own gun point tomorrow morning.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

It can't go on forever - sooner or later that guy is going to need to sleep. If he gets tired and sluggish enough, perhaps the hostages can just overpower him. If he starts killing them, they need no matter what. From what I've heard - it's 40 to a lone terrorist.

OR hungry!

I WAS going to suggest shutting off water, but the toiletts could get nasty.

Of course they MIGHT have a way to TAINT the water! What if they had a biblical plague, like the water being riddled with some petroleum product or poisonous algae? The toilets would work fine, but NO WATER! Of course the terrorist would have to be treated LAST. If he dies? MEH! WE TRIED!

Steve

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MissTerraK

9 years ago

The gunman has been identified!

Police have identified the man behind the siege at Lindt cafe in Sydney as Iranian cleric Man Haron Monis.

Terra

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

The gunman has been identified!

Police have identified the man behind the siege at Lindt cafe in Sydney as Iranian cleric Man Haron Monis.

Terra

OK, the jig is up! He might as well give up, because even if he managed to get free, they may find him, and if they don't, they could legitimately go to every mosque and look for him. And his accounts, large property(car, living area, office, business, etc....), and documents could be confiscated. The career is something that you would think they would try to hide, because EVENTUALLY, people WILL profile, especially places outside of the US.

Steve

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whateverpedia

9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

OK, the jig is up! He might as well give up, because even if he managed to get free, they may find him, and if they don't, they could legitimately go to every mosque and look for him. And his accounts, large property(car, living area, office, business, etc....), and documents could be confiscated. The career is something that you would think they would try to hide, because EVENTUALLY, people WILL profile, especially places outside of the US.

Steve

Thanks for your advice.

I'll pass that on to the Australian authorities.

The Prime Minister will contact you personally just as soon as the satellite relay is working.

They're setting up a hotline right now. It's a conference call so that other world leaders can hear your insights as well.

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Kay King

9 years ago

I'm going to wait for the whole story....it was media that said "black flag like Isis" and "lone wolf attacks".

We don't know if it's a nut job person or Isis backed attack at this point, do we?

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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I'm going to wait for the whole story....it was media that said "black flag like Isis" and "lone wolf attacks".

We don't know if it's a nut job person or Isis backed attack at this point, do we?

As Steve has mentioned, Man Haron Monis is the guy and he has also has a known alias: Mohammad Hassan Manteghi. His birth name was Manteghi Bourjerd. He was well known in law enforcement and intelligence circles, and some say he was a self-proclaimed Sheikh. He's not a very nice guy at all, check out all those charges reported in the Telegraph story. The flag was a Shahada flag and they are reporting he was not directly connected to the Islamic State and that he was working alone...

Sheik Man Haron Monis, an Islamic ‘spiritual healer’ who is facing charges of sexual assault and being an accessory to murder, has been identified as the man who has taken civilians hostage in a Sydney café, according to local media citing police sources.

http://rt.com/news/214547-sydney-hos...an-identified/

An Iranian refugee known for sending hate mail to the families of Australian soldiers killed overseas and facing several charges of sexual assault is the armed man holding an unknown number of hostages in a Sydney cafe, a police source said on Tuesday.

Man Haron Monis, Iranian Refugee, Named As Sydney Hostage Taker

The radical self-styled Muslim Sheik Man Haron Monis behind the siege that saw 17 people held hostage in the Lindt cafe on Martin Place in Sydney's CBD is no stranger to police, with a long rap sheet that allegedly includes sexual abuse and organising the murder of his ex-wife.

He died as police stormed the cafe in Sydney early this morning.

Monis was born Manteghi Bourjerdi and fled from Iran to Australia in 1996 where he changed his name to Man Haron Monis and assumed the title of Sheik Haron.

Radical self-styled sheik Man Haron Monis was on bail at time of siege - 9news.com.au

The man behind the shocking siege in a Sydney café was Man Haron Monis, a notorious 49-year-old self-proclaimed sheikh who claimed to practice black magic and was well known for multiple crimes including sending offensive letters to grieving families of dead Australian soldiers and allegedly murdering his ex-wife.
Monis, a self-proclaimed “spiritual healer”, had a long history of criminal convictions.

In October, he was chanrged with 40 indecent and sexual assault charges, including 22 counts of aggravated sexual assault and 14 counts of aggravated indecent assault relating to six women.
In 2002 he faced charges of sexually assaulting a woman and of joining with his current wife to stab his ex-wife to death in Sydney last year.

Sydney siege gunman named as Man Haron Monis - Telegraph

Many ID him as a radical Muslim cleric.

Sydney gunman Man Haron Monis - in 60 seconds -...

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MissTerraK

9 years ago

Reports are saying 3 dead including the gunman.

How very sad that 2 innocents were killed too.

Terra

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Reports are saying 3 dead including the gunman.

How very sad that 2 innocents were killed too.

Terra

There were injuries too, and it seemed some injuries to a police officer were pretty major, even if not deadly. At least it is over. I hope the "sheik" gets to meet the 72 Virginians! To those unfamiliar with the concept.....

When a $%^&* terrorist died, George Washington met him at the Pearly Gates. He slapped him across the face and yelled, "How dare you try to destroy the Nation I helped conceive?"

Patrick Henry approached, punched him in the nose and shouted, "You wanted to end our liberties but you failed."

James Madison followed, kicked him in the groin and said, "This is why I allowed our government to provide for the common defense!"

Thomas Jefferson was next, beat the $%^&* terrorist with a long cane and snarled, "It was evil men like you who inspired me to write the Declaration of Independence."

The beatings and thrashings continued as George Mason, James Monroe and 66 other early Americans unleashed their anger on the radical, socialist leader.

As the $%^&* terrorist lay bleeding and in pain, an Angel appeared. The $%^&* terrorist wept and Said, "This is not what you promised me."

The Angel replied, "I told you there would be 72 VIRGINIANS waiting for you in Heaven. What did you think I said?..... You really need to listen when someone is trying to tell you something!"

Steve

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Thanks for your advice.

I'll pass that on to the Australian authorities.

The Prime Minister will contact you personally just as soon as the satellite relay is working.

They're setting up a hotline right now. It's a conference call so that other world leaders can hear your insights as well.

JUST SAYING! I'm sure they already thought of it.

Steve

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HeySal

9 years ago

I read a few hours back that a few of the hostages escaped. Any new word on the situation yet?

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Richard Van 9 years ago

I'm keeping an eye on it but not much now. As far as I know the cafe is in darkness. Mixed reports of numbers of hostages. Yes 3 men and 2 women escaped a while earlier which apparently made the hostage taker 'extremely agitated'.

It's almost 11pm over there now so we'll just have to sit tight and wait for news.

I also heard a while back that a man has been taken hostage in Belgium in an unrelated incident. They're keen to stress it's nothing to do with Sydney but I did initially read they were shouting Allahu Akbar as they entered the building. I think it's over now though.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...pdates-4813568
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whateverpedia

9 years ago

It might be an idea for Chris to edit the title of the thread.

So far there is no connection between the whackaloon and ISIS.

A suggestion for the updated title is - GUNMAN HOLDING UP CAFE IN SYDNEY! CBD EVACUATED!

As this is an ongoing situation I'd like to keep this thread. By connecting the whackaloon to ISIS may see the thread devolve into an argument within one of the forbidden topics, if not both of them.

Let's keep it open, eh?

We can worry about what type of whackaloon he is when it's all over.

I'm hoping that everyone will come out of this alive including the whackaloon. However it appears at this stage that he probably won't. I just hope he doesn't take anyone with him.

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Richard Van 9 years ago

Good point Whatever but I read (and like all reports I can't confirm them) that he did ask for their flag?

Not sure and I suspect the news you're getting is a bit better than mine. Have you heard that too?
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HeySal

9 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

It might be an idea for Chris to edit the title of the thread.

So far there is no connection between the whackaloon and ISIS.

A suggestion for the updated title is - GUNMAN HOLDING UP CAFE IN SYDNEY! CBD EVACUATED!

As this is an ongoing situation I'd like to keep this thread. By connecting the whackaloon to ISIS may see the thread devolve into an argument within one of the forbidden topics, if not both of them.

Let's keep it open, eh?

We can worry about what type of whackaloon he is when it's all over.

I'm hoping that everyone will come out of this alive including the whackaloon. However it appears at this stage that he probably won't. I just hope he doesn't take anyone with him.

I was under the understanding that there was an ISIS flag put in the window. Is that true or not? If so, we shouldn't have to be afraid of calling it ISIS related. They do lone wolf training all the time just to get the reaction out of people that you just stressed.

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Richard Van

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I was under the understanding that there was an ISIS flag put in the window. Is that true or not? If so, we shouldn't have to be afraid of calling it ISIS related. They do lone wolf training all the time just to get the reaction out of people that you just stressed.

It's not an ISIS flag Sal, it's a Shahada flag.

Hostages inside the cafe have been forced to hold what appears to be an Islamic flag, identified as a shahada flag, in the cafe's window reading "no god worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad is his messenger".

I have heard though that's he's asked for an ISIS flag. The flag in the window isn't actually linked to terrorism, it's just an Islamic flag .

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

It's not an ISIS flag Sal, it's a Shahada flag.

I have heard though that's he's asked for an ISIS flag. The flag in the window isn't actually linked to terrorism, it's just an Islamic flag .

Has it come down to THIS!?!?!? ENEMIES dare to ask OTHERS for the enemy flag to desecrate the others property/land? What is NEXT? Asking for a female slave brought up islamic, and with a burka and subservient to be married?

BTW a member of "ISIS" does NOT have to known by them or go there! ALSO, a terrorist is ****NOT**** and NEVER has been only those affiliated with a particular organization. By virtue of the fact that he is IDENTIFYING with the larger groups, and creating such havok, he IS a terrorist! It doesn't matter if he has spoken a word of arabic, or known any other person on the planet.

The FBI definition is even BROADER than mine, and includes mine!

FBI — Terrorism Definition

So YES folks, he IS a terrorist! It is NOT who he is! NOT who is is associated with! He is a terrorist because of what he did and the stated or implied goals! HECK, the FBI *****EVEN***** says he didn't have to DO anything! He merely had to APPEAR to! After all, MOST terrorism, in life, involves mere APPEARANCE! There is a reason why in WWII, they said the biggest fear was FEAR!

Steve

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Alexa Smith Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I was under the understanding that there was an ISIS flag put in the window. Is that true or not?

No, it isn't (according to the BBC). Not an ISIS flag at all.
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whateverpedia

9 years ago

The latest development is that it may not be a terrorist attack.

An article in The Australian describes the whackaloon as:

AN Iranian self-styled sheik who sent offensive letters to the families of dead Diggers and is on bail for accessory to murder was last night holding 15 people hostage in a Sydney cafe.Hostages night of horror .

This guy is just a criminal, not a terrorist.

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Richard Van

9 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

The latest development is that it mat not be a terrorist attack.

An article in The Australian describes the whackaloon as:
This guy is just a criminal, not a terrorist.

Just seen that too. Though the report I read was he was an Afghani. (Just seen the correct report. I think the one I first read got confused with the hate mail he sent to troops and relatives of troops who were in Afghanistan).

I must admit as well, with the apparent silence from ISIS and the (and I'm sorry to mention this as I don't know how this will pan out) disturbingly nice way he's held the hostages.

From some of the things I've seen about them (ISIS), I'd expect them to kill at least one person horribly, right from the get go, to show they mean business.

I think they'd remember to take the right flag too.

Edit. Just seen this....http://www.9news.com.au/national/201...d-as-man-monis

With the amount of sexual offences he's allegedly committed, potential murder of his wife and the hate mail I suspect a lot of people are going to wonder why he was allowed to walk the streets anyway.

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bravo75

9 years ago

A Sunni Iranian? That's a rare species.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Apparently, he is DEAD!

The suspected jihadist holding up to 15 people hostage in a Sydney cafe is an Iranian sex offender and self-styled sheikh who has sent hate mail to the families of Australian soldiers killed overseas, police confirmed. As the standoff entered its 15th hour, with police and news crews surrounding the shop as frightened hostages looked out through the front window, police identified Man Haron Monis as the gunman holding captives inside Lindt Chocolat Cafe. His identity was known early on to police and media alike, but was only released for the record by police sources as night fell on Sydney with the nation transfixed on the the televised scene. Earlier, several people were seen with their arms in the air and hands pressed against the glass, and two people were seen holding up a black flag associated with Islamic fanaticism. Australian broadcaster Network Ten reported that the gunman, seen wielding a shotgun and a machete, has forced hostages to call him “The Brother” and demanded to speak directly with Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott.

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whateverpedia

9 years ago

The two big questions coming out of this are:

How was this known whackaloon released on to the streets?

How was a known whackaloon able to obtain a gun?

There will be a lot of soul searching now that it's all over.

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HeySal

9 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

The two big questions coming out of this are:

How was this known whackaloon released on to the streets?

How was a known whackaloon able to obtain a gun?

There will be a lot of soul searching now that it's all over.

Exactly what we over here try to point out when defending our gun ownership. ANYONE can purchase a gun illegally. I could walk down the street in almost any town in the US with a C note or two and purchase one. You can, too, if you know where to start asking. I wouldn't doubt there are more illegal guns over here than legal ones. There's one huge amount of them "walking" over our south border right now. From the sounds of it, you might be surprised how many you have in AU at the moment as well.

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Chris Worner

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Exactly what we over here try to point out when defending our gun ownership. ANYONE can purchase a gun illegally. I could walk down the street in almost any town in the US with a C note or two and purchase one. You can, too, if you know where to start asking. I wouldn't doubt there are more illegal guns over here than legal ones. There's one huge amount of them "walking" over our south border right now. From the sounds of it, you might be surprised how many you have in AU at the moment as well.

Make no mistake, there are guns aplenty in Australia;

Pen Guns: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-pop...27-10mgve.html

I couldn't find an article but a crooked Australia Post(Aus postal service) owner was busted importing illegal firearms several years back as part of a wider network.

Real keychain guns;

!!KEYCHAIN GUN SEIZED!! - YouTube

And of course, you can make your own firearms.

This are just some recent examples.

Around 1996 there was a panic around illegal weapons in sport shooting and there was a amnesty day where people could hand in any illegal firearms they owned without fear of repercussion. Needless to say, nearly every class and type of weapon was represent.

Many people mistakenly believe this was in response to the Port Arthur Massacre in Tasmania.

Gun deaths are rare in Australia, even amongst the criminal class.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Worner

Make no mistake, there are guns aplenty in Australia;

Pen Guns: Police pop pen-gun syndicate

I couldn't find an article but a crooked Australia Post(Aus postal service) owner was busted importing illegal firearms several years back as part of a wider network.

Real keychain guns;

!!KEYCHAIN GUN SEIZED!! - YouTube

And of course, you can make your own firearms.

This are just some recent examples.

Around 1996 there was a panic around illegal weapons in sport shooting and there was a amnesty day where people could hand in any illegal firearms they owned without fear of repercussion. Needless to say, nearly every class and type of weapon was represent.

Many people mistakenly believe this was in response to the Port Arthur Massacre in Tasmania.

Gun deaths are rare in Australia, even amongst the criminal class.

According to wikipedia, unless you can demonstrate a need for a particular class of weapon, you can't get it or any more restricted gun. SO.....

Gun politics in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

US laws allow FAR more than australia. The US is ALMOST as restrictive with R/E, but allows them to be functional.

Steve

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Richard Van 9 years ago

The fact is Australia doesn't have the same gun laws as the US. I saw a lot of US comments yesterday on Twitter that were getting quite annoying for many Australians about how if Oz had the same gun laws as the US this wouldn't have happened. It may not have happened too but one person pointed out another interesting thing. Had Australia the same gun laws as the US you might as well assume that nut job wouldn't have had a shotgun. He'd have had far more sophisticated weapons, grenades and heaven knows what else.

I'm not sure more or less lives would have been saved. I really don't know but I don't think it's really relevant. Australia doesn't have the same gun laws and speculating about Oz having them won't bring those 2 people back.

The main thing for me here is you have a nut job on bail for the best part of 50 sexual assault charges, a murder charge and a some what extremist mentality.

Having said that, fair play to both of those who died. One was shielding her pregnant friend and the other took a man on with a shotgun with just his hands. Thanks to those 2, the rest got out. Not perfect but far less dead than most extremists would have hoped for and both of them showed far more bravery than the gun man.

I thought it was well handled personally.
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Exactly what we over here try to point out when defending our gun ownership. ANYONE can purchase a gun illegally. I could walk down the street in almost any town in the US with a C note or two and purchase one. You can, too, if you know where to start asking. I wouldn't doubt there are more illegal guns over here than legal ones. There's one huge amount of them "walking" over our south border right now. From the sounds of it, you might be surprised how many you have in AU at the moment as well.

Well, at least in much of california, it is ILLEGAL for the average citizen to buy fireworks. AND, the ones they USED to have (The mandated "SAFE AND SANE") , are no longer available.

FireworksLand.com - "Safe and Sane"

You want to see fireworks? You have to go someplace where they have professionals shoot them off.

STILL, there was a BLACK MARKET in fireworks in schools like in LA, etc.... It got SO bad that before I left, the school threatened to EXPEL anyone caught in such a transaction or possessing such fireworks. And THEY were unreliable and potentially very dangerous. They got them from mexico and china!

I have to wonder what the midwest is like. Within several months of july, you may not be able to go 30 miles without seeing a sign or store for fireworks. Some shot around my home seem pretty substantial. But I never even bothered to go to the stores.

Steve

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Chris Worner

9 years ago

He requested an ISIS flag. Scarily enough, the police asked loads of people for an Isis flag in line with his demand, while many had them, none wanted to give them up;

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/...ands-flag.html

My title stands, whether he acted on his own accord or not doesn't change the facts, he was a terrorist and openly sympathised with other terrorist actions.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/marti...15-127t01.html

Frankly the apologists disgust me.

I'm just glad it is over.

Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott Speaking on...

-Chris

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Joe Mobley 9 years ago

Kind-of what I think about some of the activities going on here in the states.

Originally Posted by Chris Worner

whether he acted on his own accord or not doesn't change the facts, he was a terrorist and openly sympathised with other terrorist actions.

Joe Mobley
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HeySal

9 years ago

Richard - now you know how we in the US feel when everyone everywhere else in the world decides what our laws should be.

Also - Grenades are military weapons not stuff we can just go buy. If anyone has them, they have them illegally -- which would mean that more likely a criminal than a law abiding citizen. With a border wide open, all sorts of things can walk into the country. We have only guns to defend ourselves with so when things start blowing up....well, that's criminals or terrorists at work.

As far as people being saved by our concealed carriers.........well, there has to be one in the area when something like this comes down or it doesn't help. In some places guns are not legal (which, conversely is an illegal law in the states), but where they are, a lot more people are getting concealed carry permits now. That doesn't mean there's any guarantee they will be at the right place at the right time to save people when a criminal gets a bee in his bonnet to let loose on someone, though. Sure is nice when it happens, but there's never a guarantee anywhere in the world that it will.

Sometimes bad things happen to good people and there's no law in the world that will change that. It would help if people like that psycho aren't forced onto society, though. That is the real crime from the get in an event like this one.

My condolences to the family and friends of the fallen. It might not help right now - but they were people that definitely deserve honors and respect for their bravery.

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Richard Van

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Richard - now you know how we in the US feel when everyone everywhere else in the world decides what our laws should be.

I do know how you feel and that's exactly why I don't get involved in US gun threads. It's none of my business.

Also - Grenades are military weapons not stuff we can just go buy. If anyone has them, they have them illegally -- which would mean that more likely a criminal than a law abiding citizen. With a border wide open, all sorts of things can walk into the country. We have only guns to defend ourselves with so when things start blowing up....well, that's criminals or terrorists at work.

I just meant I've seen some pretty well stocked gun shops there and I meant the gunman in the Sydney siege would have most likely had more than just a shotgun.

As far as people being saved by our concealed carriers.........well, there has to be one in the area when something like this comes down or it doesn't help. In some places guns are not legal (which, conversely is an illegal law in the states), but where they are, a lot more people are getting concealed carry permits now. That doesn't mean there's any guarantee they will be at the right place at the right time to save people when a criminal gets a bee in his bonnet to let loose on someone, though. Sure is nice when it happens, but there's never a guarantee anywhere in the world that it will.

That's all I was really trying to say, if someone had a concealed weapon it may or may not have helped. The gunman said he had 2 bombs and had 2 other bombs elsewhere that could be exploded. It appears now he may not have had them but do you shoot a man that may be wearing a bomb vest? What if he may have had a handheld thingy that if he dropped it the bombs went off? Even with a concealed weapon you may not want/dare to fire it.

We don't know what the gunman was telling them.

Sometimes bad things happen to good people and there's no law in the world that will change that. It would help if people like that psycho aren't forced onto society, though. That is the real crime from the get in an event like this one.

I agree. The chap shouldn't be out in normal society. He's nuts. I'm not slagging off Aussies saying that either. We have our nut cases here and they're free to walk around too.

My condolences to the family and friends of the fallen. It might not help right now - but they were people that definitely deserve honors and respect for their bravery.

Absolutely Sal. I couldn't agree more. It takes a truly brave person to tackle a man with a gun when you're unarmed, a truly courageous and brave person to put your body in front of a pregnant lady about to be shot.

There is nothing brave or courageous about being the only armed person in the cafe and taking aim at terrified pregnant women.

I'm proud of those 2 Aussies for showing the gunman what bravery and guts really are.

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Alexa Smith Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Richard - now you know how we in the US feel when everyone everywhere else in the world decides what our laws should be.

We're more used to that, over here: most of our laws are determined by Brussels (and other vegetables) anyway.

.
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Chris Worner

9 years ago

Rich,

if anything, this event is just another example that gun control does not do anything to protect the citizen, rather create a false sense of security. If somebody wants to commit a crime that involves the use of guns and/or explosives, they can do so, gun control or no gun control.

Neither do you need grenades to create explosions and blow large numbers of people up. There are plenty of off the shelf chemicals and other substances (like manure for example) that can be used to great devastating effect.

As for Police being the only people allowed to carry weapons(which is pretty much how it is down-under bar exceptions like hunting licences or private security in rare circumstances), this didn't do anything to save those poor souls lives or reduce the risk to the lives of the survivors. Nor deter that lunatic.

Rendering the argument that if Australia had similar/identical gun laws as the USA could have made the situation worse a complete non sequitur,

The moment that man walked into that shop, it was already too late.

-Chris

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Richard Van

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

We're more used to that, over here: most of our laws are determined by Brussels (and other vegetables) anyway.

.

Yes that's right. Brussells tell us what we can and can't do and people wonder why we're not keen on staying in Europe. I wouldn't mind but they're in a place called Brussell sprouts and we've got carrots, aubergines and sweet potatoes deciding who can come here.

The Borg as we're known, because we're all the same, have finally been assimilated by the United Vegetable Plot.

Who'd have thought?

Originally Posted by Chris Worner

Rich,

if anything, this event is just another example that gun control does not do anything to protect the citizen, rather create a false sense of security. If somebody wants to commit a crime that involves the use of guns and/or explosives, they can do so, gun control or no gun control.

Neither do you need grenades to create explosions and blow large numbers of people up. There are plenty of off the shelf chemicals and other substances (like manure for example) that can be used to great devastating effect.

As for Police being the only people allowed to carry weapons(which is pretty much how it is down-under bar exceptions like hunting licences or private security in rare circumstances), this didn't do anything to save those poor souls lives or reduce the risk to the lives of the survivors. Nor deter that lunatic.

Rendering the argument that if Australia had similar/identical gun laws as the USA could have made the situation worse a complete non sequitur,

The moment that man walked into that shop, it was already too late.

-Chris

Hi Chris,

I think the moment he was granted bail it was already too late. Either way I agree, it doesn't matter anyway, it was yesterday and you can't change gun laws once a siege has started.

There will be endless speculation just like there was after other terror attacks but the fact remains, when a religious lunatic or in this case perverted sexual religious lunatic murderer, decides he wants to hold people hostage, he probably will.

I do think though that Lindt got a better look in than his Shahada flag and he kind of lost a bit of credibility when I realised he'd forgotten his ISIS flag. In fact when 5 escaped I was thinking it was a bit odd and the whole fact he wanted to release hostages for flags didn't quite strike me as being the ISIS way of doing things.

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Chris Worner

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Hi Chris,

I think the moment he was granted bail it was already too late. Either way I agree, it doesn't matter anyway, it was yesterday and you can't change gun laws once a siege has started.

Indeed, I was speaking more generally though.

Originally Posted by Richard Van

There will be endless speculation just like there was after other terror attacks but the fact remains, when a religious lunatic or in this case perverted sexual religious lunatic murderer, decides he wants to hold people hostage, he probably will.

Indeed, but one doesn't have to be a religious loon to commit violent acts. Have you seen some of the horrors that go on in Mexico when the cartels want to send a message to the populous?

Originally Posted by Richard Van

I do think though that Lindt got a better look in than his Shahada flag and he kind of lost a bit of credibility when I realised he'd forgotten his ISIS flag. In fact when 5 escaped I was thinking it was a bit odd and the whole fact he wanted to release hostages for flags didn't quite strike me as being the ISIS way of doing things.

Did you know Al Qaeda issued an edict banning their followers from beheading captives for PR reasons;

Beheading damages our image, Yemen al-Qaeda boss rules | The Times

Something which they are quite infamous for as well as recording themselves in the act and releasing the videos for the world to see.

-Chris

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Richard Van

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Worner

Indeed, I was speaking more generally though.

Oh yes I wasn't arguing or anything. I totally agree. When he walked in the cafe, it was game over.

Indeed, but one doesn't have to be a religious loon to commit violent acts. Have you seen some of the horrors that go on in Mexico when the cartels want to send a message to the populous?

It fascinates me but apart from religion, they seem almost the same. Take what they want, kill who they want, behead anyone or thing. One does it for money and greed, the other does it for religious 'reasons' and greed.

One thing that always worries me, since they both share the same love of chopping heads off, is that they get together in a JV. ISIS have the money, Mexicans have the access to America.

Did you know Al Qaeda issued an edict banning their followers from beheading captives for PR reasons;

Beheading damages our image, Yemen al-Qaeda boss rules | The Times

I did see that yes. Quite a surprise too. Always amazes me how ISIS show the actual beheading's of their own but Westerners are spared that, we just see the head after.

Bit discriminatory against there own really.

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HeySal

9 years ago

What we can hope now is govs start to stop the misplaced "empathy" for violent offenders and tell them to stay the hell out of their countries instead of being so quick to think it's charitable or "right" to let them in amongst their own people. There's no reason a gov should allow a serial rapist "amnesty". Amnesty should be for non-violent people in jeopardy, not psychos.

I hope whoever allowed that maniac to come through gets the snot sued out of him.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

What we can hope now is govs start to stop the misplaced "empathy" for violent offenders and tell them to stay the hell out of their countries instead of being so quick to think it's charitable or "right" to let them in amongst their own people. There's no reason a gov should allow a serial rapist "amnesty". Amnesty should be for non-violent people in jeopardy, not psychos.

I hope whoever allowed that maniac to come through gets the snot sued out of him.

GOOD LUCK with any of that! Einstein was perhaps NEVER more right! He had a quote about limits. Perhaps even HE thought it was a ridiculous exaggeration. And he may NEVER have thought the US would test its boundaries. STILL, it IS being tested. So far, it has seemed to pass at every point.

Steve

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peter_act 9 years ago

One of the main questions being asked here is "why was this guy out on bail, when he was facing over 40 charges, including rape and helping with the murder of his ex-wife?

He was granted bail three times (by female magistrates), with one saying, chillingly, "I cannot see this man being a danger to the public".

He was well known to the police, and has been on TV on numerous occasions, preaching messages of hate.

However, nothing could be done, because there would have been an uproar from the civil liberties spokes-people, about the infringement of his human rights.

I wonder whether this would have happened in Queensland, with our strong policy of law and order taking precedence over civil liberties - refer my thread:

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...law-order.html
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- seasoned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by peter_act
  
  He was granted bail three times (by female magistrates), with one saying, chillingly, "I cannot see this man being a danger to the public".
  
  She should be FIRED, and have ANY related license PULLED!!!!!!!!!!!
  
  HE said he would be a danger to the public, through his statements, and HER saying that she couldn't see him accomplishing that, ESPECIALLY when she was FEMALE, is like slapping him across the face and DARING him to do it.
  
  BTW my statement about her being female is simply because he was a misogynist and brought up as one, and would see her as less than human.
  
  SERIOUSLY, WHO would do that?
  
  Man Haron Monis
  Man Haron Monis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  
  If you were to believe the earlier things, which DO jive with some other things, it seems that he might have been unversed in islam, tried to pass as shia, and supposedly converted to sunni. The muslims said he just wanted to create trouble for them, he was violent, and a conman.
  
  So YEAH, he WAS a danger to the public. GRANTED I am saying this after the fact, but THEY should have had full details.
  
  Apparently they knew he was dangerous when he first came to Australia, but didn't extradite him because they had no extradition treaty with Iran.
  
  Steve
  
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Chris Worner

9 years ago

Meet the wife;

Siege gunman's wife in hate-filled YouTube videos - 9news.com.au

-Chris

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Richard Van 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Worner

Meet the wife;

Siege gunman's wife in hate-filled YouTube videos - 9news.com.au

-Chris

Incredibly Iran wanted him back 14 years ago.

Iran also says he was wanted there over fraud allegations, but that Australia had refused to extradite him 14 years ago.

BBC News - Sydney cafe siege: Probe into gunman's asylum and gun licence
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Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...
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seasoned

9 years ago

OK, so NOW,they are trying to redefine act of god! An act of god is basically a huge environmental event that is beyond the capabilities of a person and beyond planning, like an earthquake, flood, storm, etc... If a war is planned and you get struck by an atomic missile, and your ashes are scattered to pluto, it STILL doesn't count as an act of god!

act of God

phrase of act

1. an instance of uncontrollable natural forces in operation (often used in insurance claims).

Steve