the Company i work at micromanages to death, actively spies on me, Manager sits literally next to me

I suggest you go to Amazon and buy a fantastic book by Timothy Ferriss called The 4-Hour Work Week. I bought it a few weeks ago and just getting towards the end of it. It's a really good book and talks about becoming self employed or starting your own business. However a large portion of the book discusses how you can negotiate with your boss to work remotely from home. From what you have mentioned it sounds like your job would be a perfect example for working from home. Don't dismiss this idea straight away, it's probably not the solution that most people are thinking of. But I would definitely recommend you take a detailed look at it.

Your situation doesn't sound ideal. But, unfortunately if you are working for someone else's business, they can pretty much do all of that with impunity.

I'm assuming you are being paid a full legal wage or salary not like the $3 an hour outsource workers. So at least that's going in your favor.

At this point, your only options are to stay and put up with bad treatment or get another job or maybe even go out on your own and do SEO for your own clients. It's your life, decide what's best for you.

hey guys a couple quick points:

1) I do get paid... 10% below the average according to latest released stats for my job category
2) I decided to work with a company because I was tired of all the extra work running your own company, having to find new clients, deal with negotiating and educating them, closing them, managing all the financials, and everything besides the actual work
3) I asked the CEO about working from home, but for the very reason that he has a psychological need to micromanage and spy on everyone he doesn't want to.

I am looking for a way to salvage the operation here.. I thought maybe I can pitch him that I will open up an affiliate division or seperate company with exclusive contract to affiliate only for his products, which would give me the space I need, but at this point I think he would want to know everything about the affiliate program, then he would say "I want the affiliate program, and I want you to add it to your workload. I am not paying you extra, its part of your job."

I already spoke to a couple friends of mine who are also solid SEOr's and they laughed saying no one at our level of competence would agree to such a bad agreement...

Anyone find light in such a dark tunnel??

I haven't been in such a situation before, but i feel you. Even writing an article while having someone besides me doesn't make me comfortable at all. I am just wondering if the CEO has no other work other than to monitor you. I would just advice that you try finding your way out slowly. Think of starting your own small business in the same field.

Then just bounce. What are you waiting for.

It'll look better if you make up some half-acceptable excuse now then later.

Sounds like hell, I'd leave. Seriously want to deal with that everyday?

Maybe.

Or maybe you're like too many people who think their current job is their final destination instead of a stop along the way.

Just as you would with any long journey, know where it is you want to go, lay out your map, plan your stops along the way.

ttrance,

Richard is right TO A DEGREE, but we know NOTHING about you. And many SEOers CHEAT by using fake keywords, really weird phrases, fake domain names, other sites, etc... THAT is why they can ALL claim to place you in the first 10 pages. So I can understand why you don't do all that yourself. REAL SEO is great to push the site a bit more, and get BETTER performance, but that doesn't mean you will be #1 or even #10. HECK, even if it DID, so many would be doing it that you would STILL have a problem ranking there.

And there are some managers that feel they can learn from watching you, or want to bully you, etc.... HECK, I have been in a SMALL cube with literally over 5 people breathing down my neck. I TRY to explain that they will get a BETTER job done faster if they JUST LEAVE, but they really want to stay there. The big thing today is "micro managing".

I put "micro managing" in quotes because it is all an act. They hire people they don't need, give work to people that CAN'T do it, while they ignore those that CAN, and they may build conference rooms so they can act big and mighty like in the movies ONLY to MONTHS LATER convert them all to "bull pens" because they have hired SO MUCH DEAD WEIGHT! The result? Over 60% of the people there may have NO work to do and are twiddling their thumbs! They may EVEN have the AUDACITY to send a message COMPANY WIDE that peoples companies are to get paid 10% less, but the company has been told to pay THEM(the worker) the SAME rate! THIS being the case even though, though the economy is bad, they may be getting paid JUST AS MUCH as they WERE getting!

OK,OK, the last paragraph sounds really off the wall and unlikely, but I actually described a company I worked for. If people worked there in 2010, they may actually recognize it from my description. It was a sight to behold! As for that letter? It went out to probably a dozen companies about HUNDREDS of people. The company probably lost a few hundred man hours because everyone was discussing the post!

And IMAGINE a COMPANY being down because of some disaster, and ONE GUY is assigned to fix the problem, and he is acting like a complete klutz because the temperature and humidity of his area went up because his cube no longer even gives him the space to get up for a minute because others, that know NOTHING about the whole thing are standing there to watch! YEP, I've been that guy! Sometimes taking HOURS to do something I could have done in minutes if I only had time to think.

Anyway, if you ARE paid 10% less, GREAT! Just LEAVE!

Steve

Why don't you find a new job or start your own business?

I've always found that if I am the best at what I do, my bosses just leave me alone and let me do it - even when they are micro-managers. Saved a few of their jobs a couple of times, and never had them on my back. I was pretty secure that the job was there until I no longer wanted it, and walked when I wished.

From the short descriptions of what you do there - reading articles, typing on the WF to complain about the boss, I'd say you've got some hardball catching up to do to make it to a point where your boss is going to give you more leeway again.

Kay - at least you knew about the cameras when you started work and got to choose if you wanted that job or not. I worked for the phone company - at the research level I had complete freedom. Managing the msg desks, I had none. We didn't have cameras, but we had tapped phone lines - in and out of work. The difference was that nobody told us about it. I knew solely because I had been in research. Got sick of one boss and told her to go F*** off in an email not addressed to her - and she didn't catch on not to admit she'd read it. I laughed so hard. Of course - I'd already lined up a new job before I pulled that one on her, too.

Using work time to write lengthy posts griping about your job on a forum is probably not the best solution to your current problem. You're just giving them more reason to micro-manage you - or fire you - don't ya think?

I don't mean to be mean, but I'm not going to sugar coat my reply.

You lasted a week in your own office. You got placed next to your Office Manager. Obviously
they think they are not getting what they hired you to do and what they are paying you to do.
They are not getting the productivity and effectiveness they were hoping for.

You think a company should pay you to "research" radioactive materials and post on WF.

Frankly, you need better work ethics and to adjust to being on payroll instead of being self-employed. You probably also need more up to date SEO skills and need to learn how to run and grow a business.

You have no credibility at that company, so they are not going to let you work from home, nor be interested in any of your advice or willing to let you start an affiliate project. As you mentioned, they are also cheap people and probably won't pay you enough, or anything, for an affiliate project.

Either turn your attitude and reputation at that company around, or get another job and show them a great return on their investment in you, and that you are worth ten times the pay and worth your own terms - such as your own office.

Or, start your own company again. Did you earn much when you were self employed?

If articles about radioactive minerals are not related to your job and part of your job functions, you shouldn't be reading them on the company dime. Nor should you be reading or responding on the WF on the company's time. You should be doing exactly the job that they want you to do, whether you think it prudent or not.

Alternatively, you can quit. I doubt that I would do that unless I had at least a year's income to survive on, but everyone has choices to make. Either work for the company or don't, but don't rob them by doing non-essential, personal things at work at expecting to get paid for it.

Hey guys! Some really great responses here.

I have been working for myself for several years... Usually making between 4-10k a month. I worked for clients because I have a wife and kids and I cannot risk ranking a site and hoping for affiliate dollars. I wanted to get to the point that my client list was stable enough that I could dip into doing my own stuff but it hasn't occured yet.

My SEO skills are pretty good but I'm more a manager then a guy going out and doing stuff manually.

SEO today is strongly tied to good quality content, getting that content out there, and getting links back from the content. Obviously a lot more to it.

I agree that my 'work ethic' was based on working from my own office, on my own time. Working for a company does have a different meaning.

Over here however, the VP, directly under the CEO, always vents to me about how anal and problematic the CEO is. The VP used to work for 10 years at big Fortune 500 Finance company. He said it was extremely brutal, and this is not so bad - but he said that the CEO clearly has some type of personality issue.

About trust and credibility. I think whoever mentioned that above is extremely sharp - however in this case its not just me. He put everyone into 'bull pens', and forces all employees to do tasklists. He is - extremely controlling -. He hires experts, and then tells them he disagrees with their professional opinion.

Whats his opinion?

Well lets just say the follow small points:
-We have over 400 domains, and 370 wordpress sites, drifting... With tons of random content. In the last week alone, over 10 sites have been hacked. Web Dev spends a good amount of time fixing these backwater sites that are utterly useless.
-The CEO creates one product. He discovers that people like the word "pure", so he goes and makes another brand called "Pure product X"... We have 1 'product' but 5+ brands for each product. Because he wants to dominate the first page in both PPC and SEO. But has done no SEO until I came on board.
-They spent 1 million+ on adwords a month, Google banned them from Adwords in the summer. No explanation.

Does it sound like this guy is taking anyones advice???

So yes, if I was performing poorly then it would make sense, but here its not about making sense. The CEO has a serious personality disorder, he is obsessively micromanaging everyone and everything. Obsessed with controlling everything.

They have a past customer list of 4 million emails. I told them without double opt in, it could be illegal. They found a guy.... in Trinidad, and he said "its no problem I can pound out emails to those 4 million people for you... no problems!"

So since that will be cheaper then doing aWeber, he is going for that. But when it comes to paying... He wants to pay only Half now, and the other half after its done. Its a whole issue, that is really bugging the VP out. Unnecessary, but the CEO wants full leverage of everyone at all times.

It is a SERIOUS problem. Everyone here notices it, everoyne here talks about it. I have a few offers I'm investigating at the moment, and once I close with one I will probably jump ship.

By the way I want to ask: Do you guys really believe, working from 9am - 6pm, that if I spend a few minutes here and there reading some non-work-related things its bad work ethic?? It feels a little overwhelming that one should work like a machine, at 9am start, without stopping until 6pm? (obviously u take 30 minutes or so for lunch..).

Maybe i'm spoiled from being self employed, but it really does feel too much to think I need to manage 30 major websites, over 50 products, 2000+ keywords, a team of 5 outsourced SEO people, and be able to do that non-stop from 9am-6pm?? I need a couple minutes at least each hour to decompress and refresh. Am I really that far out there??

ttrance,

In an earlier post here I mentioned "fake keywords". HTML has a STANDARD(for NEARLY 2 DECADES) way of expressing keywords. You know what google does with it today? They THROW IT AWAY!!!!!!!! THEY IGNORE IT! WHY? Because people loved using "FAKE KEYWORDS" like SEX! And google is REALLY INSISTENT that NOBODY tries to trick them. They have LOTS of algorithms to discourage "deception". You CAN'T, for example, have text the same color as the background. THAT will be ignored ALSO. And it is rumored that they have audits in various cases, in case their algorithms miss something. THAT is probably one reason why the company got banned,

As for your time, if you are considering their company for the amount of time they pay you for, that should be ENOUGH! HECK, sometimes companies I have worked for had a desire, or emergency, even late at night. If I was contacted, I did my best. Sometimes I took care of the problem in minutes. I never charged for such things.

ALSO, if you work with a place like india, you CAN'T work 9-5! 9am could be around 7:30PM in india, and is generally TOO LATE! 6PM is about 3:30am in india, and is generally TOO EARLY! At such times, it is best to work OUTSIDE the 9-5 deal! I have worked at a few companies where I had to deal with india, and I generally worked outside that time.

BTW NOBODY cares how many emails are sent. You could easily send a TRILLION if you want! What matters is how many are received well. THAT means they must be received! Someone that talks about this not being a big deal probably has a low delivery rate, and may be blacklisted elsewhere.

Steve

BTW regarding using the internet at work, or even emailing, for that matter. MOST probably use a proxy, and limit and monitor web traffic. And it is possible that nearly ALL cache and backup email. Some companies are REQUIRED TO BY LAW! And some that AREN'T easily COULD be, so it is best to start ASAP. And deleting won't get rid of it.

As for talking about customers and the like, a consultant, or EMPLOYEE, or even an owner for that matter, is NOT to do so. Doing such things, in an openly obvious way could EASILY get you fired or worse. Heck, if I do such things, I generally stay away from some things and don't state names.

Steve

If you decide to get another job, try to take your time and decide to work for them
if your sense is they operate in the way you think they should. And the culture is good, etc.
The right fit is important.

I don't last too long at companies that are pennywise and pound foolish and unethical,
or do illegal things.

Another thought I had is that they could be monitoring you so they have the documentation
needed to fire you.

Kay is right - as usual - don't get in the group of complainers. It takes three to six months, if
ever, to turn your reputation around from forgivable stuff (paraphrasing an Industrial Psychology
professor I took courses from.)

The only other thing I can suggest is studying that CEO personality type - I don't have suggestions
for particular researchers - and learn how to work with him or her. That could appease things for as
long as you are there. Or possibly completely turn things around.

Dan

Two words, Taco Bell.

He won't sit next to you again.

hey guys some good advice here.

I agree, a good work ethic is important. When I look at worksnaps for my outsourced guys, I notice occasionally they go on facebook for a few minutes here or there. I feel a little disappointed, but I understand at the same time, that as long as they get the work done and overall its going well I'm fine iwth it. So I then focus on the part of me that barely - ever - so - slightly was disappointed that they were on facebook, and if I focus on that part, then I can understand management that is completely only into that aspect. When at work, 100% nothing except working for us. However... I do not think this is very reasonable. Most people especially in todays world are just not able to perform this.

Also this reminds me of the work ethic from Japan, which if you keep up with things, is very problematic. They have an actual mountain there where people go to kill themselves... We are people not machines. -- But yes, I do understand where the ethic comes from.

I'm not sure what that one guy keeps ranting about with google and keywords... Yes Google on purpose makes SEO difficult and discouraging because they want to push you to do PPC.

I got 2 amazing offers in the last week. Not to mention a few people hounding me to help them every few weeks, but I usually say no because I just want to focus on the family now... However I may have to rethink my strategy!

Whoever is SOLID at what they do... Doesn't it feel amazing to be in demand all the time? I love it!!!

Oh and about recording stuff etc... I just setup a SICK MicroTik AHx2 1100 router here at the office, along with an omni directional WIFI antenna... LOL About monitoring traffic etc... If anyone would be doing that, it would be me!! LOL

I wanna put in a firewall rule to drop X packets from the CEOs IP... LOL but obviously I won't do it.. But I REALLY WANT TO

LOL, How times have changed/

I remember during my appenticeship doing electo/mechanical maintence engineering, I would

be repairing a machine and I would get a suit from the offices stand and watch me. After a while

the foreman came up to me and said Georgie, the next time any suit starts observing you work,

I want you to close your toolbox, have a ciggie, go for a coffee or go to the stores. I aked him why,

and he replied, can you go into the offices and stand over them watching them work at their desk?

After while I was able to develop this technique to a fine a point of torture of management eg

If a production line went down, we would know if it a motor burnout or something simple and wait for

the most senior management to appear, they would usually be red in the face and their veins in their

necks bulging and vibrating with fear and apprehension. This is when we would act the most causual

and relaxed. You could actually see the power shift appear in their eyes, they became powerless,

because they could not do anything and where afraid to upset you in this situation.

I might do a video series on management control using the Phil Silvers/ Sargeant Bilko TV showws

Lol

Power to the People :-)