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How do they do that?

by HeySal
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Remember back in the 60's and 70's when a jet got fast enough it would create a sonic boom?

I just saw two fighter jets take off from the local airport. Had it been night I'd have sworn they were UFOs. I've never seen anything move that fast in my life. Yet there was no boom. How do they do that? Anyone know?
  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned




    It's possible the fighters were not traveling faster than the speed of sound when you saw them, or you were not in the Mach cone if the planes were traveling faster than the speed of sound.

    How to calculate the Mach cone angle...



    To be considered as well...

    Depending on the aircraft's altitude, sonic booms reach the ground two to 60 seconds after flyover. However, not all booms are heard at ground level. The speed of sound at any altitude is a function of air temperature. A decrease or increase in temperature results in a corresponding decrease or increase in sound speed. Under standard atmospheric conditions, air temperature decreases with increased altitude. For example, when sea-level temperature is 59 degrees Fahrenheit (15 °C), the temperature at 30,000 feet (9,100 m) drops to minus 49 degrees Fahrenheit (−45 °C). This temperature gradient helps bend the sound waves upward. Therefore, for a boom to reach the ground, the aircraft speed relative to the ground must be greater than the speed of sound at the ground. For example, the speed of sound at 30,000 feet (9,100 m) is about 670 miles per hour (1,080 km/h), but an aircraft must travel at least 750 miles per hour (1,210 km/h) (Mach 1.12, where Mach 1 equals the speed of sound) for a boom to be heard on the ground.
    Sonic boom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The FAA has not allowed domestic civil supersonic flights overland since 1973 (think the Concorde), and even the Air Force conducts most supersonic tests over open water 15 miles off-shore. The supersonic flights conducted overland usually occur within specially designated areas.

    The Air Force has conducted faster-than-sound test flights since 1947, and today most Air Force fighter aircraft are capable of supersonic speed. Consequently, supersonic training flights that simulate actual combat conditions are necessary to ensure the success and survival of aircrews during wartime. However, Air Force procedures require that, whenever possible, flights be over open water, above 10,000 feet and no closer than 15 miles from shore. Supersonic operations over land must be conducted above 30,000 feet or, when below 30,000 feet, in specially designated areas approved by Headquarters United States Air Force, Washington, D.C., and the Federal Aviation Administration.
    http://usmilitary.about.com/library/...lsonicboom.htm

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post


      It's possible the fighters were not traveling faster than the speed of sound when you saw them, or you were not in the Mach cone if the planes were traveling faster than the speed of sound.
      Seriously, Don, how do you know this stuff??!!

      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      How to calculate Mach cone angle...
      Now that just triggers flashbacks from college calculus! Hardest class I ever took - never studied something so totally useless (for me, at least) so hard in my life!
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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        Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

        Seriously, Don, how do you know this stuff??!!

        Now that just triggers flashbacks from college calculus! Hardest class I ever took - never studied something so totally useless (for me, at least) so hard in my life!
        Hahaha...

        Yeah, not very useful for me at this stage of my life either. I do love physics, math, and science and took a lot of those classes, but at some point it all became quite difficult for me as well.

        When I was much, much younger I had to take some advanced classes in math and physics prior to attending Nuclear Power School. At nuke school we had to memorize (and be able to apply) 13+ term energy equations which is not fun to do at any age. With my grade point average I had to spend 6 days a week in class from 7:30 AM to 9:30 PM and 8AM to 1PM on Sundays. We were given 4 minute breaks on the hour and 30 minutes for lunch. I was on what was called mando 35 which meant I had to do 35 hours of instructed study a week beyond the normal school day.

        Once I hit the fleet I did see a ton of aircraft flying to and from the aircraft carrier in our battle group, and quite often we would tow practice targets behind our Guided Missile Cruiser and the bombers and fighter/bombers would drop dummy bombs on the targets we were towing. Some of those bomber guys were so accurate they could cut the tow line and end the exercises for the day!

        That said, I have always been interested in sonic booms and I can remember my dad taking me to most of the airshows in our area, and of course supersonic speeds and the sonic boom(s) were always one of the highlights. I probably attended my first airshow when I was 3 or 4 or younger. The formula for the Mach cone angle is widely published so it's definitely no secret.

        Cheers

        -don
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    • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post





      It's possible the fighters were not traveling faster than the speed of sound when you saw them, or you were not in the Mach cone if the planes were traveling faster than the speed of sound.

      How to calculate Mach cone angle...



      To be considered as well...



      Sonic boom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      The FAA has not allowed domestic civil supersonic flights overland since 1973 (think the Concorde), and even the Air Force conducts most supersonic tests over open water 15 miles off-shore. The supersonic flights conducted overland usually occur within specially designated areas.



      Sonic Boom

      Cheers

      -don

      Zzzzz . . . .
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    To elaborate on what DON said. The sound barrier does vary based on air pressure, and so altitude. And I believe there IS a height requirement anyway. Planes USED to go about as fast as was considered safe. From what I understand, commercial flights TODAY are generally limited to 0.8M(80% of the speed of sound)..

    I still remember in elementary school when all the windows rattled, etc... The concord was only allowed at a few airports(at least in the US), and had various features installed to allow it to take off and land at a slower speed, and it may have had restrictions similar to the other planes. GENERALLY, IIRC, it flew from coastal airports to other continents, so it was usually over water.

    In the past few decades I believe I only heard sonic booms ONCE, and it was when the space shuttle was rerouted near where I was. ALAS, I guess THAT case won't happen again.

    BTW the last time I was near a military jet, it made a RUCKUS, but I don't believe I heard a sonic boom. Then again, it was probably over 500FT away before it really took off, so to speak, and seemed to almost disappear. It WAS fast, since they were basically ready for war, and to shoot to destroy. That was around 9/11/2001, and it seemed like 60% of the jets taking off from my airport were Air National Guard military jets. They wanted to make sure that any jet followed the flight plans correctly.

    BTW one company DID come up with a way, by changing the wing shape and all, to mitigate sonic booms. IIRC Lockheed martin bought the patent. Anyway, on lockheed martin, HERE is what they say about a similar project:

    Reducing Sonic Booms

    To look at this, it looks like they handily beat EVERY goal that NASA had except that they produce almost 6% more noise than the upper limit.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Thanks, Don. I'm not that advanced at math - but I get the drift of the verbal info.

    I know they were going fast enough to have hit it. Not a question. I wasn't exaggerating when I said I've never seen anything move that fast. Those things were up and out of sight with a full horizon view within a matter of seconds. I only know what they were because they were just coming up over the trees when I first saw them - and those were not "civil" aircraft. I was gobsmacked at how fast they were moving even right off of takeoff.
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Pretty simple, if just taking off they would still be relatively low as they passed over you giving the impression of great speed.

      If you'd seen them miles up, from your point of view it would have taken them a lot longer to traverse the sky.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        Pretty simple, if just taking off they would still be relatively low as they passed over you giving the impression of great speed.

        If you'd seen them miles up, from your point of view it would have taken them a lot longer to traverse the sky.
        At sea level, the allowed speed for a COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT, to be at .8M, is about 609MPH. So that may be the limit for military aircraft as well. HOWEVER, on an aviation forum, a post said
        below 10,000' the 'speed limit' for all aircraft is 250 knots, or 288mph
        You probably wouldn't be below 10,000' unless you had a problem, or were taking off or landing, and that is likely only for commercial aircraft. Military ones take off under better conditions, and the pilots are trained and dressed for the speed. ALSO, apparently the concorde took off at 250MPH. So this would indicate that a military fighter could easily go at least twice as fast without causing a sonic boom, and that might be enough to make it appear to be that much faster. ALSO, IIRC, the ones I saw had a shorter run, and a steeper climb so, as I said, and heysal seemed to allude to, they basically VANISHED! You blink, and they're GONE!

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        Pretty simple, if just taking off they would still be relatively low as they passed over you giving the impression of great speed.

        If you'd seen them miles up, from your point of view it would have taken them a lot longer to traverse the sky.
        I can see the whole western horizon - and those things went from take off to out of sight within seconds. And they were up to normal plane height so fast it was almost scary. I live right by the airport and watch things take off all the time. I've also lived near military bases and have watched a lot of military take offs. Vantage point has nothing to do with it. This wasn't an illusion - these things were moving. I'm used to what things do in our airspace. Regular commercial jets take a long time to traverse that amount of air. Takes em awhile to get height, too, when they come over. I can smoke around half a cigarette from the time they take off to the time they disappear if they are going west. I don't think these things were around more than 5 seconds. It was absolutely surreal. They were pretty new looking, too - extremely triangular. Not UFO triangular - but not far off of that. I'm pretty sure they were pretty new tech machines.

        I've watched the sky for around 50 years now -- and I've never seen anything in it move that fast. Period. I was astonished there was no sound - other than usual sound of take off.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          I can see the whole western horizon - and those things went from take off to out of sight within seconds. And they were up to normal plane height so fast it was almost scary. I live right by the airport and watch things take off all the time. I've also lived near military bases and have watched a lot of military take offs. Vantage point has nothing to do with it. This wasn't an illusion - these things were moving. I'm used to what things do in our airspace. Regular commercial jets take a long time to traverse that amount of air. Takes em awhile to get height, too, when they come over. I can smoke around half a cigarette from the time they take off to the time they disappear if they are going west. I don't think these things were around more than 5 seconds. It was absolutely surreal. They were pretty new looking, too - extremely triangular. Not UFO triangular - but not far off of that. I'm pretty sure they were pretty new tech machines.

          I've watched the sky for around 50 years now -- and I've never seen anything in it move that fast. Period. I was astonished there was no sound - other than usual sound of take off.
          At a military base, ALL BETS ARE LIKELY OFF! They know the planes, the limits, have their own ATC, etc.. They may take off ASAP, and if they can stay out of range of civilian items, they are OK.

          Like I said, the SHUTTLE violated civilian rules! But it's PLANNED path probably avoids civilian areas. When I heard it, it was rerouted, etc...

          The ones I saw were the normal fighters. They weren't stealth or like current state of the art. They STILL disappeared quickly. But they did things a civilian jet would NEVER do, and I doubt many civilian jets could even attempt. They likely won't be at every military base. The REALLY new ones, last I heard, were still relatively rare. EXPENSIVE, and generally special purpose.

          The airport I was at is one of the shared regional ones. I believe burbank, ca is the same way. But Fort Wayne, IN certainly is. If the local ANG is scrambled, like they were around 9/11, YOU WILL KNOW IT! The airport gets noisier, and these fighters seem to appear, be there for a minute(Probably just to do a final check, get orders, etc....) and it is almost like they just shoot up into the sky. They don't even taxi much. As I said, maybe 500ft. To put that in perspective, that is about 1/2 a block. The windows rattle, but it is just because of the roar of the engines. The plane isn't even moving that fast when it starts.

          I've heard that FW, IN has one of the longest "civilian" runways in the US, but those jets could probably use the shortest. Then again, they probably could fly off aircraft carriers also!

          BTW The longest FW, IN runway is 11,981 ft

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            how do you know this stuff
            wikipedia....

            The beauty of the internet - you don't have to know it all....you only need to know where to find those facts....
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            • Profile picture of the author Cali16
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              wikipedia....

              The beauty of the internet - you don't have to know it all....you only need to know where to find those facts....
              Oh, Kay, I knew it was just a matter of time before someone came back with that response (or "Google")!

              But I also had a hunch that Don's knowledge came from a bit more than just a quick Internet search. And it seems that was at least partially true. Then again, maybe he just has me completely fooled into thinking he's one smart cookie (or at least one super fast Googler)!
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                Oh, Kay, I knew it was just a matter of time before someone came back with that response (or "Google")!

                But I also had a hunch that Don's knowledge came from a bit more than just a quick Internet search. And it seems that was at least partially true. Then again, maybe he just has me completely fooled into thinking he's one smart cookie (or at least one super fast Googler)!
                The internet HAS made a lot of people a bit lazy, but there is more than just googling. HECK, a lot of programmers use google even for relatively simple stuff. If you don't really know enough though, you will miss things, and STILL have problems. Take an accounting system that places an order, for example. You can quickly ascertain, via google, how to read and write the info. But what about locks and transactions? You may not even know what they are, and so you don't validate THAT. You end up with wasted space, a mess, and incorrect reports. And if you don't test right, it could be YEARS, or DECADES, before the problem even shows up!

                Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
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              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              wikipedia....

              The beauty of the internet - you don't have to know it all....you only need to know where to find those facts....
              Maybe you did not know why or how sonic booms happen, but some of us actually studied this stuff in school and/or during formal training, learned it from our families and/or friends, or have an interest in the subject in general.

              My father was a flight mechanic in WW2, my brother had a pilot license for many, many years, and when you spend several years in the military seeing and hearing supersonic flight you tend to have a good grasp of what creates a sonic boom. It was almost 10 years ago when I built military photo galleries that had images of military planes breaking the sound barrier which included descriptions of how the the booms are created. Heck, from age 3 to 11 or 12 I wanted to be an astronaut so I read almost everything that I could get my hands on with regards to flight.

              Not everyone needs to look up what creates a sonic boom, and you can bet your high boots that I knew why sonic booms were created when I was in early grade school.

              Wikipedia (and other) sites are quite often a good resource to use when someone presents a question such as this since most of the material is already written and/or diagrammed and expounded upon.

              Most people learn how a sonic boom is created at the first airshow they attend...not to mention the fact it's pretty well known that the definition of sonic is - relating to or using sound waves - and boom is - a loud, deep resonant sound.

              When you have have had as much schooling as I have had with regards to radio waves and waveguides, sound waves and the sound barrier are a bit elementary.

              If you want to get into the weird stuff...dive into how waveguides work and why they may or may not need need to be bent or cut at the half wavelength, quarter wavelength etc. Once you have handled that subject you can move on to study hole flow.

              Have you heard a physics, science or electronics instructor use the acronym PFM? Probably not...it is used when a student asks a question on an underlying theory and the answer is so complex, and/or it may take so long to explain, that it will set the class back hours or days.

              PFM ---> Pure Friggen Magic.

              Yeah, I studied quite a bit off stuff that could be considered PFM.

              If you find waveguides and hole flow interesting you may be able to have some fun with the thermodynamic properties enthalpy and entropy.

              Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post


              But I also had a hunch that Don's knowledge came from a bit more than just a quick Internet search. And it seems that was at least partially true.
              Thanks, your hunch was correct.

              Cheers!

              -don
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        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          I can see the whole western horizon - and those things went from take off to out of sight within seconds. And they were up to normal plane height so fast it was almost scary. I live right by the airport and watch things take off all the time. I've also lived near military bases and have watched a lot of military take offs. Vantage point has nothing to do with it. This wasn't an illusion - these things were moving. I'm used to what things do in our airspace. Regular commercial jets take a long time to traverse that amount of air. Takes em awhile to get height, too, when they come over. I can smoke around half a cigarette from the time they take off to the time they disappear if they are going west. I don't think these things were around more than 5 seconds. It was absolutely surreal. They were pretty new looking, too - extremely triangular. Not UFO triangular - but not far off of that. I'm pretty sure they were pretty new tech machines.

          I've watched the sky for around 50 years now -- and I've never seen anything in it move that fast. Period. I was astonished there was no sound - other than usual sound of take off.
          I still maintain what I said, yes, they were moving a lot faster than commercial jets. But, they were lower. Your horizon from east to west based on them being say a mile up will give the impression that they appear and disappear very quickly out of your viewpoint. You horizon viewpoint. is limited based on how high they are. Now they could be doing 500 to 600 mph to do that but commercial jets climb up to 6 miles high and cruise at 625 mph and it still take a while from your point of view to go from one side of the sky to the other. Your horizon is greatly expanded

          They don't start at that speed either, while small jets can quickly accelerate.

          If it were possible for the moon to orbit the Earth at a mile distance from the ground with no ill or derogatory effects, you would see it pass by you and move out of sight very quickly. It's speed of rotation around the Earth is unchanged, the rotation of the Earth is unchanged. But you see it normally 256 thousand miles away which shows it in view much longer and of course it appears to move slowly.

          If you were on the salt flats in Utah watching one of those 500-600 mph super cars they build go past you it would be a case of blink and you will miss it.

          Perhaps you did see ufo's but it's as well to know the terrestrial craft capabilities.
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  • Profile picture of the author smoor2012
    Aircraft and what they can actually do are nothing short of amazing. I was in the Air Force and worked on the flight line. Most all of us take for granted what a plane can do, but the science behind flying a plane is honestly amazing.

    The speed that some aircraft are capable of is mind boggling.

    HeySal, I wish I could answer your question. What little I do know about lift and keeping a plane in the air won't impress you.

    I am just as impressed as you are with the speed of flight.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by smoor2012 View Post

      Aircraft and what they can actually do are nothing short of amazing. I was in the Air Force and worked on the flight line. Most all of us take for granted what a plane can do, but the science behind flying a plane is honestly amazing.

      The speed that some aircraft are capable of is mind boggling.

      HeySal, I wish I could answer your question. What little I do know about lift and keeping a plane in the air won't impress you.

      I am just as impressed as you are with the speed of flight.
      What really amazes me is that if you can see the blocks, or other land masses you can identify from the air, and it looks like you are going FAR slower than you really are. OH, and the fact that you could drink water the whole trip and often not spill a drop!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Shapes like this?:
    NASA Centers Team Up to Tackle Sonic Boom | NASA

    I don't know if they can control this yet, but you may not have been in
    the direction of the shock waves from the boom. Meaning the boom happened,
    just not in your direction. Also, they seem to be getting better at quieter
    booms.

    I don't know if this would apply, but my often referenced "skeptic, engineer friend"
    talked about technology that would allow airplanes to punch a hole in the air in front of them.
    Reducing wind drag - drafting like bicycle and car racers. It was so long ago that he talked
    about this, that I don't recall the method, or if it was just something he was thinking about
    inventing. Maybe it was this: Quiet Spike - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Stealth helicopter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chine_(aeronautics)

    In my mind anyway, maybe they also use some noise cancelling or dampening counter sound wave.
    There is a ton done with sound, anyway. Maybe they combine aeronautic design and sound technologies?

    Recall from Bush 1's invasion of Iraq when the Iraq army essentially dropped there weapons and fled. Part of that was attributed to directional sound used as a weapon. I've heard they can use and broadcast frequencies that create the feeling of intense fear.

    I believe it was Woody Norris' application of the technology that was used in Iraq. I first saw Woody Norris on an invention show. He showed his directional sound technology on a pop machine that 'spoke' to you when were right in front of it - selling you the product. They use that version in supermarkets in Europe to sell bananas, etc.

    Woody's certainly one of the Father's of the technology: http://www.ted.com/talks/woody_norri...gs?language=en

    http://www.explainthatstuff.com/dire...dspeakers.html
    http://www.holosonics.com/

    Google 'directional sound' or 'directional sound as a weapon' if you want to know more.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Shapes like this?:
      NASA Centers Team Up to Tackle Sonic Boom | NASA

      I don't know if they can control this yet, but you may not have been in
      the direction of the shock waves from the boom. Meaning the boom happened,
      just not in your direction. Also, they seem to be getting better at quieter
      booms.

      I don't know if this would apply, but my often referenced "skeptic, engineer friend"
      talked about technology that would allow airplanes to punch a hole in the air in front of them.
      Reducing wind drag - drafting like bicycle and car racers. It was so long ago that he talked
      about this, that I don't recall the method, or if it was just something he was thinking about
      inventing. Maybe it was this: Quiet Spike - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      Stealth helicopter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chine_(aeronautics)

      In my mind anyway, maybe they also use some noise cancelling or dampening counter sound wave.
      There is a ton done with sound, anyway.

      Recall from Bush 1's invasion of Iraq when the Iraq army essentially dropped there weapons and fled. Part of that was attributed to directional sound used as a weapon. I've heard they can use and broadcast frequencies that create the feeling of intense fear.

      I believe it was Woody Norris' application of the technology that was used in Iraq. I first saw Woody Norris on an invention show. He showed his directional sound technology on a pop machine that 'spoke' to you when were right in front of it - selling you the product. They use that version in supermarkets in Europe to sell bananas, etc.

      Woody's certainly one of the Father's of the technology: Woody Norris: Hypersonic sound and other inventions | Talk Video | TED.com

      Google 'directional sound' or 'directional sound as a weapon' if you want to know more.
      The shape I was talking about seemed more traditional. It made SO much sense when I heard it, but it was close to 20 years ago, as I recall. so I forget the specifics. One of these days, I will HAVE to start a journal! It had to do with basically distorting the flow that created the boom. And it DID make it quieter. Supposedly, they had ALREADY used it for a corporate jet. I BELIEVE it was talked about in "popular science". Anyway, a military contractor ended up buying the patent, as I recall. I guess it makes sense, because if you had a plane that could go far faster before being detected, it could be a game changer.

      They have been talking about a domestic supersonic plane for SO long, and I don't believe they have ever made one. Even at their fastest, most civilian jets in the US are really little more than transsonic at best. I checked wikipedia about the concorde. Just two airports in the US, and they were near the east coast. The three others were similar. So the concorde wasn't really to get around countries, but to fly across huge bodies of water.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Ianfear - maintain whatever you want to maintain. I'm not an idiot and I know what I saw. I wouldn't be in here talking about normal planes - these were more than obviously military craft. They were not UFO's - I said UFO kind of triangular - just a description of shape, they were military. Probably not the best way to describe them either. They were more than obviously military. They looked like some sort of new tech bomber. What I can't figure out is why they were coming from a civilian airport. We have a military base right down the road that does tech, so it might be something new. I've looked over google pics to see what I can find that it looks like.

    They looked a lot like this but they were black - and they were meaning business. They came over the trees then it was just "pedal to the metal" and they were gone. They were headed straight to the Pacific and they weren't holding back. At all. It kinda scared me to wonder why they were going that fast toward off shore.

    This isn't exact, but it's the closest I could come to what I saw.

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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Ianfear - maintain whatever you want to maintain. I'm not an idiot and I know what I saw. I wouldn't be in here talking about normal planes - these were more than obviously military craft. They were not UFO's - I said UFO kind of triangular - just a description of shape, they were military. Probably not the best way to describe them either. They were more than obviously military. They looked like some sort of new tech bomber. What I can't figure out is why they were coming from a civilian airport. We have a military base right down the road that does tech, so it might be something new. I've looked over google pics to see what I can find that it looks like.

      They looked a lot like this but they were black - and they were meaning business. They came over the trees then it was just "pedal to the metal" and they were gone. They were headed straight to the Pacific and they weren't holding back. At all. It kinda scared me to wonder why they were going that fast toward off shore.

      This isn't exact, but it's the closest I could come to what I saw.

      So your talking about low flying and a sudden massive acceleration. Looks like some new tech stuff then that's for sure. Humans flyers can only take so much without blacking out. Any sound as they came over the trees and then accelerated?. Their should have been!!
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        So your talking about low flying and a sudden massive acceleration. Looks like some new tech stuff then that's for sure. Humans flyers can only take so much without blacking out. Any sound as they came over the trees and then accelerated?. Their should have been!!

        I know right? Should have shook the whole town. But yes - they came over the trees - maybe a football field from me so I got a good look at them.....then they were up and gone. Boom. Never seen anything move like that. All the pics resemble them a little, but none are exact. It's like the difference between a 2011 model car and a 2014 model car - a little difference, but not extreme. They were awesome!
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        Sal
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Now it makes me wonder if the boom occurred before you could hear it.

    The only fighter jets I have ever seen were in Top Gun. JK
    Seriously, the last ones I've seen were just flying patrol patterns around Denver.
    I do not recall what the speed of sound 'looks' like - so to speak.

    Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
      Banned
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Now it makes me wonder if the boom occurred before you could hear it. Or, if they were not quite up to the speed of sound when you saw them.
      That's what I mentioned in post #2...

      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      It's possible the fighters were not traveling faster than the speed of sound when you saw them, or you were not in the Mach cone if the planes were traveling faster than the speed of sound.
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      I do not recall what the speed of sound 'looks' like - so to speak.
      Now you will be able too.







      Cheers

      -don
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Now it makes me wonder if the boom occurred before you could hear it.

      The only fighter jets I have ever seen were in Top Gun. JK
      Seriously, the last ones I've seen were just flying patrol patterns around Denver.
      I do not recall what the speed of sound 'looks' like - so to speak.

      Dan
      I remember hearing a lot of sonic booms when I was in my young teens. I've only heard a couple that I would have recognized as such since then.

      There was an air force base just down the road from me in both ID (Mountain Home) and I lived between 2 of them in NV (Fallon - Yerrington area). I'm used to seeing the aircraft - both on the ground and in the sky. Actually enjoy it. Mountain Home, ID is a frightening place to anyone with normal sensibilities, though. I was there two months and got the hell back out as fast as possible -- and I'm not easy to scare.

      Anyhow - the strangest thing I've ever seen in the sky came from the Mountain Home. I've talked about that in here before. If that had not come from a Military base I'd have sworn on bibles that it was a UFO. Still to this day can not even imagine what it was I saw - I just know it was one of ours,

      These were fighters I saw (2 flying side by side) - but looked brand spankin' new. And they were hella fast. I'm betting if it's new it moves at least Mach 3 instead of that usual 2 point some odd that most new stuff can reach. These things made those look like hot wheels toys. They were definitely at missile intercept or beat speed. That's why it gave me the willies to see them head toward the coast. Hope they were going elsewhere overseas, YIKES. LOL.

      Anyhow - Like I said, they took off from a civilian airport. Not sure why they would hit the speed they did unless they are being tested or had something extremely important to attend to. They were beautiful at any rate.
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      Sal
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Regarding the Mountain Home ones:
    Supposed Aurora Project - I've heard some claims it's about the size of
    a football field, and capable of very quiet slow, slow speed as well as
    supersonic.


    https://www.google.com/search?q=auro...w=1280&bih=869
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Maybe you did not know why or how sonic booms happen, but some of us actually studied this stuff in school and/or during formal training, learned it from our families and/or friends, or have an interest in the subject in general.
      I do know - learned it long ago in school and if that weren't enough I've been hanging around pilots for years. Just poking at you....

      The day after Christmas - big dinner here. Included are two retired AF test pilots - my son (ex-AF, ex-Hurricane Hunter, ex-FBI and currently SA with another alphabet agency) and an ex-Navy pilot. If I get tired of war stories - I can bring up sonic booms and add some interest to the conversation - glad this topic came up!
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I do know - learned it long ago in school and if that weren't enough I've been hanging around pilots for years. Just poking at you....

        The day after Christmas - big dinner here. Included are two retired AF test pilots - my son (ex-AF, ex-Hurricane Hunter, ex-FBI and currently SA with another alphabet agency) and an ex-Navy pilot. If I get tired of war stories - I can bring up sonic booms and add some interest to the conversation - glad this topic came up!
        Ooooh yeah, also bring up the Aurora Project, HAARP, and chem trails and get back to us.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    As far as the Aurora project, these weren't quite as triangular as that. I've never seen anything like that - and I'm sure if what I saw were secret aircraft, they wouldn't have been taking off from a public airport. I'd love to see some of those extreme triangular things, though. I'd love to watch one take off!

    The pic I posted was the closest I've seen yet.

    Dan - What I saw at Mt Home was NOT a plane. It was in the air and it moved across the sky - but it wasn't a plane. It had four balls in a line. They were orange and about the 1/5th the size of a full moon when straight above you. There was no visible shell - just the balls. There were 4 in a row. The one on the left would dissolve from the left and at the same time a new one would materialize from the left in front of the row. It was about 40 miles east (just over Mt Home air force base practice range S. of Bruneau, ID) and 20 miles south of me - and if I'd held my fingers up was about 2 inches across. It moved by the balls dematerializing in the back and materializing from the front. I pulled off the road and watched it for about 10 minutes - it was extremely slow. I don't know if it landed or if I just lost visibility behind the mountain.
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    Sal
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    BTW - Mt Home was strange. There was always this high pitch ring in the background. People were nice, but they were off. Kinda like inbreds are "off". Stupid to drooling, unaware, dull eyes with no hint of intelligence - very strange. What really scared me is that I went to the reservoir north of town one night when I was getting ready to leave town to catch another white footed brush mouse for a companion for the one I had. It got dark - and by dark, I mean there was no light emanating from town at all - even though it was early and all the stores, etc were still open, and the street lights were on. The whole sky around town was pitch dark - and you could see a glow around the edges of that black and all the sky outside of that glow was normal night sky. I left a day early. Spooked crazy. I've never gone back there and never will. You couldn't pay me to get off the highway in that area ever again.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Ooooh yeah, also bring up the Aurora Project, HAARP, and chem trails and get back to us.
      I tend to do stuff like that with this group when they start taking themselves seriously....my son knows it's coming and has a hard time not chuckling when these guys jump all over the topic.

      They catch on after a bit and we all laugh at ourselves. Point is - you can't take yourself too seriously in this life - takes all the fun out of it. I enjoy this group of people though this is a rare get together. Some of the stories they tell are fascinating and their viewpoint on current issues almost always is from a perspective I would not have considered myself.

      New Years we're having a bunch of teens and young adults here for a big party - I'll have just as much fun and learn just as much from that group as from the group this week.
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I tend to do stuff like that with this group when they start taking themselves seriously....my son knows it's coming and has a hard time not chuckling when these guys jump all over the topic.

        They catch on after a bit and we all laugh at ourselves. Point is - you can't take yourself too seriously in this life - takes all the fun out of it. I enjoy this group of people though this is a rare get together. Some of the stories they tell are fascinating and their viewpoint on current issues almost always is from a perspective I would not have considered myself.

        New Years we're having a bunch of teens and young adults here for a big party - I'll have just as much fun and learn just as much from that group as from the group this week.
        You could ask this group if they do cuddle sessions. A group of 20somethings (spell check says this is a word. LOL) I know does and they seem to be platonic. I mentioned this phenomena in that thread about the paid cuddling service.

        Dan
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