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Women & shoes vs. men & tools.
Go figure...
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    but tools have a purpose. Shoes look cute. you cant fix a door with your shoe...well not correctly anyway. You cant do home repair with a shoe. but then again, i doubt there's a wrench in the world that makes women's legs look as hot as a pair of heels.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      you cant fix a door with your shoe
      You can't fix a door with $100, either.

      But you can hire someone to fix your door.

      Women tend to think one step removed from the direct solution. This may not get the job done with quite the same personal ego-gratification as men prefer, but it does tend to be a great deal more versatile.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    4 inch stelletos can function in many ways Michael - ever had one stuffed up your nose or been hit in the solar plexis with one? LOL.

    And guys like women to look sexy -- so "cute" has its purposes, too. PLUS - walking on a narrow 4 inch heel really enhances the balance, which is needed to walk on them at all. And you can do some misc hammering with a heel if you are in a pinch.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      4 inch stelletos can function in many ways Michael - ever had one stuffed up your nose or been hit in the solar plexis with one? LOL.

      .
      as a matter of fact not only have i had this happen, i had to pay extra for it.
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  • Profile picture of the author HomeBizNizz
    Anyway, women with tools may be hot...
    But, men with high heels are a turn off.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jagged
      hey..."If the tool fits"....
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  • Profile picture of the author renault760
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      • Profile picture of the author KimW
        Originally Posted by renault760 View Post

        Men are really the pits. Just about every bad thing that has ever happened in the world, (in human history), could be laid at the door of Men.

        I'm sure that if women ruled the world things would be a whole lot better.

        By the way Sal, walking in heels is really bad for you. Stop worrying about how you look to stupid men and think more of your health! LG.
        Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

        Popular misconception put about by "feminists", I think. :rolleyes:
        Sounds more like a man-hater than a feminist.
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    • Profile picture of the author BurgerBoy
      Originally Posted by renault760 View Post

      Men are really the pits. Just about every bad thing that has ever happened in the world, (in human history), could be laid at the door of Men.
      But, Women made them do what they did.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
      Originally Posted by renault760 View Post

      I'm sure that if women ruled the world things would be a whole lot better.
      Margaret Thatcher
      Indira Gandhi
      Isabel Peron
      Sarah Palin

      Many more...
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      I'm sure that if women ruled the world things would be a whole lot better.
      Consider: If two men get into a fight in a bar, what do they do when it's over?

      Then consider what happens after two women get into an argument and one calls the other a particularly nasty name or, heaven forbid, slaps her.

      Generally speaking, the results are predictable.


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    • Profile picture of the author Emily Meeks
      Originally Posted by renault760 View Post

      Men are really the pits. Just about every bad thing that has ever happened in the world, (in human history), could be laid at the door of Men.

      I'm sure that if women ruled the world things would be a whole lot better.

      By the way Sal, walking in heels is really bad for you. Stop worrying about how you look to stupid men and think more of your health! LG.
      Oh what a load of bullshit.

      Did you know that many child abusers and murderers are also women?

      Elizabeth Bathory was a Hungarian countess (a woman in power!) who brutally tortured and murdered over 600 women.

      This innocent-looking grandma figure was sentenced to TWO life-terms for the murders of nine people.

      mental_floss Blog 8 Prolific Female Serial Killers

      http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/c.../widows/1.html

      http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/n...ses/index.html

      Not a serial killer, but the case against Casey Anthony (accused of killing her 2-year-old daughter) has gotten national attention because of all the lies and cover-ups she's given.

      I could go on...

      Sorry to ruin the whole "women are better" image, but when you stack it up, women aren't any better. Oh, did I mention that as females we are far more likely to get away with it?
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  • Profile picture of the author HR_MBA
    nice ones, but have to make sure the misses doesnt see it!!
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  • Profile picture of the author renault760
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
        Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

        It's highly controversial, really: doctors don't agree. Vascular surgeons, in particular, often recommend them.



        Ah, I see. You associate them with "vanity". Say no more.
        Heels are dangerous.

        I dont know how many times that a girl in a skirt and heels has made me run into a wall or almost wreck while driving
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  • Profile picture of the author renault760
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  • Profile picture of the author BudWells
    I would venture a guess that the women have us beat on shoe spending vs the tools.
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    • Profile picture of the author JECKELLL
      Originally Posted by BudWells View Post

      I would venture a guess that the women have us beat on shoe spending vs the tools.
      Too true
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  • Profile picture of the author Pokerlover
    You can't look good in tools but you will look good in shoes.. On the other hand, you won't be able to fix things with your shoes, but you can with tools.. So both has its purpose.. Why not put it like this.. Women and tools vs. Men and shoes.. What do you guys things? LOL..
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    • Profile picture of the author BurgerBoy
      Originally Posted by Pokerlover View Post

      You can't look good in tools but you will look good in shoes.. On the other hand, you won't be able to fix things with your shoes, but you can with tools.. So both has its purpose.. Why not put it like this.. Women and tools vs. Men and shoes.. What do you guys things? LOL..
      The heel of a shoe can be used for a hammer.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Well despite my penchant for digging in the canyons and climbing the mountains...I kinda like my stelletos when the urge hits to look like a chick again. At my age I can still do that with the best of em so why not strut a little bit?

    Vanity....said as if something is wrong with vanity. People who are vain take care of themselves better than those who don't give a rip. All that gut flab is serious unhealthiness going on inside of you. Give my my stelletos (I park them right by my tennies) and my quarter-bounce abs and I'll show you the real meaning of "weapon of mass destruction". Take pity on the poor sot with the hammer in his hand that thinks I'm a patsy because I'm lookin' good in my heels. Hahahahahahahahaha.
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  • Profile picture of the author renault760
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    • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
      Originally Posted by renault760 View Post

      Quote:
      Well, for every "slightly" dodgy woman you can come up with, (and what Maggie Thatcher is doing in there, I've no idea), There will be 50 or maybe even 100 men.

      There is simply no escaping the fact that just about every bad situation in the world, (including the current recession), is the fault of men, especially white, European men or their descendants. Sad but true.

      Oh and Alexa, on the high heels thing. I did find the results of a study by some Italian lady that concluded that raising the heel to an angle of 15 degrees, (equivalent to a 2" heel), had some beneficial effect on the pelvic muscles.

      I suggest that you get yourself a tape measure and a saw and get your collection cut down to the optimum height! Take it easy, LG.
      The ratio of male rulers versus female is simply due to the fact that females have been kept out of power and have been for most of history. The fact that men are responsible for so much grief is simply because they tend to be in power. The point of the post is that when in power women prove to be just as inclined to corruption and waging wars as any man.

      Remember the Falklands war? That's why Maggie is there. It is a common claim that if women were in power that wars would end. Fat chance.

      Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
        Originally Posted by Lawrh View Post

        The ratio of male rulers versus female is simply due to the fact that females have been kept out of power and have been for most of history. The fact that men are responsible for so much grief is simply because they tend to be in power. The point of the post is that when in power women prove to be just as inclined to corruption and waging wars as any man.

        Remember the Falklands war? That's why Maggie is there. It is a common claim that if women were in power that wars would end. Fat chance.

        Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
        no, its due to the fact that men are bigger and stronger. No matter how 'advanced' we would like to think we are, we still deal with each other like this is an elementary school playground.

        In general men are more aggressive, and just generally meaner. Look at the number male serial killers compared to female, male rapists to females, males that commit assaults compared to females.

        Its our job.
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        • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
          Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

          no, its due to the fact that men are bigger and stronger. No matter how 'advanced' we would like to think we are, we still deal with each other like this is an elementary school playground.

          In general men are more aggressive, and just generally meaner. Look at the number male serial killers compared to female, male rapists to females, males that commit assaults compared to females.

          Its our job.
          It may be our job, but you can bet that women will take that job, given the ability and opportunity.

          I don't know if you've ever worked in an environment where there are a lot of women, such as an office. They are just a brutal and mean as men, mostly towards other women, with the added touch of vicious.

          I don't mean to sound like I am berating women, I'm not, I just want to say that at a fundamental level they are just like us. They simply don't often have the opportunity to demonstrate it from a position of power.
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
            Originally Posted by Lawrh View Post

            It may be our job, but you can bet that women will take that job, given the ability and opportunity.

            I don't know if you've ever worked in an environment where there are a lot of women, such as an office. They are just a brutal and mean as men, mostly towards other women, with the added touch of vicious.

            I don't mean to sound like I am berating women, I'm not, I just want to say that at a fundamental level they are just like us. They simply don't often have the opportunity to demonstrate it from a position of power.
            Yeah, but the way women deal with women and the way women deal with men is two different things.

            Women get aggrivated with men because they give us too much credit. We aren't as smart as they are. But we dont have to be, we have women for that. They arent as strong as we are, but they dont have to be, they have men for that.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          In general men are more aggressive, and just generally meaner. Look at the number male serial killers compared to female, male rapists to females, males that commit assaults compared to females.
          Alternative view - female serial killers are usually to smart to be caught, females don't have to rape - just have to point a finger and say "you'll do for tonight" - females seldom assault, they prefer to nip at your heels and stab you in the back for the next five years instead.

          To me, high heels are like neckties - totally without purpose. Haven't worn either for years

          kay
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        • Profile picture of the author Emily Meeks
          Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

          Look at the number male serial killers compared to female, male rapists to females, males that commit assaults compared to females.
          It's not that there are fewer female serial killers. It's just that females are far less likely to get caught.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            It's not that there are fewer female serial killers.
            Do you have any backing for that? It doesn't match anything I've heard from any of the experts on the subject.


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            • Profile picture of the author Emily Meeks
              Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

              Do you have any backing for that? It doesn't match anything I've heard from any of the experts on the subject.


              Paul
              The links I gave + Google search

              and this:

              http://psychology.suite101.com/article.cfm/female_serial_killers
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                I don't know that the black widow (the one who kills their spouses or other family members for money) is considered a serial killer any more than a hit man usually is. Those two are usually classed as multiple murderers. The definitions tend to be argued, though.

                Still, I didn't see anything in those pieces that spoke to the relative frequency of women vs men as serial killers, whatever the definition used. If it's there, I missed it.


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                • Profile picture of the author Camagu
                  interesting thread, this one
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  A few of the Google links mention frequency, but the ones I found that did all maintained that female serial killers are much more rare than male ones.

                  The Wikipedia entry on the subject was surprisingly good for Wikipedia, and largely reflects the analyses I've seen by experts on the subject.


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              • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
                Originally Posted by moneysoapbox View Post

                The links I gave + Google search

                and this:

                http://psychology.suite101.com/article.cfm/female_serial_killers
                It says in the article that they are a rare occurance. And with women, they have a purpose, there's something personal with them. With men, we dont need to have a reason other than its wednesday.

                Women just give men too much credit. Men are really easy to handle from a female point of view. Just feed us, lets watch some sports or game, and give us sex and we'll kill all the cockroaches and clean all the gutters you want.
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  Michael,
                  And with women, they have a purpose
                  This gets close to the reason there's so much debate among people who don't study the topic closely about what is and is not a serial killer.

                  The label is, like all words, an attempt to differentiate one class of things from others, for purposes of identifying and understanding it. The purpose of that distinction needs to be kept in mind. In this case, it is to enable law enforecement personnel to identify and capture a specific type of murderer.

                  Killers with more mundane motives can be identified using traditional police procedures. Hit men have a specific motive, as do most black widows: Money.

                  What we call serial killers are not so easily understood, and are harder to find and capture because of that. Thus the efforts of the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit and subsequent expansion of their work by others.

                  When you get into the term as it affects jurisdiction, that becomes simpler: Two or more people killed by the same person in separate incidents. That really is only useful for jurisdictional determination, though. It's not much good for investigative purposes.

                  Bringing it down to something simpler and less nasty, to make the point, it's like the difference between a forum spammer and a troll. The spammer has a clear and easily understood motive: Profit. Satisfying that motive requires certain behaviors, which are limited by the medium. Thus, they're relatively easy to identify and deal with.

                  Trolls are a whole other animal, and there's a very real psychological component to their behaviors. They follow patterns, leave gaps of time between their activities, and almost always have signatures. They can seem perfectly normal right up to the time they start their games. And, at least as far as their use of the Internet, they are not at all "normal" people.

                  Both groups are abusers. If you understand the elements and know which group a specific person belongs to, you can effectively deal with them. If you don't, you're likely to screw things up pretty badly.


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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        LOL Kay- this is an edit - I wrote the post before I read what you just posted and........great minds think alike, what can I say.

        Renault...?.....Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
        hahahahahaha..hahahahahahaha....hahahahahaha.....a ha..ha....oh ahahahahahahahahahahaha.

        You must not read many threads I post in. Hint...I never said I wear heels to please men.
        Don't get me wrong.....I love men. And I don't find anything wrong with doing things to please
        a special guy sometimes. It's called give and take. But when I strap on a pair of selletos, my intentions are totally selfish....
        trust me on that one. LOL.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Here in the United States women voters greatly out number men voters. And in recent years there have been several women to choose from to run our country. In a democracy what happens must be blamed mostly on the voters. It's true that women have not always been allowed to vote here. However since they have been allowed to vote, women have chosen men as our leaders.

    PS - Democrats are known for being anti-war, however Hillary voted for the war in iraq.

    I don't mean for this to sound anti-women. I for one would love to see a woman as President. I'm one who believes that Elizabeth Dole would have come closer to being president than Bob Dole ever did.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      Here in the United States women voters greatly out number men voters. And in recent years there have been several women to choose from to run our country. In a democracy what happens must be blamed mostly on the voters. It's true that women have not always been allowed to vote here. However since they have been allowed to vote, women have chosen men as our leaders.

      PS - Democrats are known for being anti-war, however Hillary voted for the war in iraq.

      I don't mean for this to sound anti-women. I for one would love to see a woman as President. I'm one who believes that Elizabeth Dole would have come closer to being president than Bob Dole ever did.
      at the risk of pissing off the women here, the last thing this country needs is a female president.

      Sorry girls, its not like you can't do the job, anyone thats ever met a single mom has no doubt that women have the ability, but considering many of the cultures we deal with everyday i dont think a female will make the same impact as a male.

      Just because we can, doesnt mean we should.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Worst of all is narrow-minded sterotypical thinking and judgmentalism.

    There are both good and evil men and women. In fact everyone has the capacity to be both. I don't think there are any absolutes - (all good, all bad)

    What makes a person evil or good is #1 their mind, #2 their heart, #3 their spirit - in no particular order - i don't see that any of those have a sexual identity, nor does 'the will' which would cause you to act one way or the other.

    Not that 'mental illness' is any excuse or justification for doing evil, but I do believe a person must be either mentally ill or just plain evil to be a murderer and to do lots of other crimes. Male or female...

    Men look stupid in high heels though.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Men look stupid in high heels though.
      but women look hot in tool belts. But thats how guys think. women look hot in burlap sacks, hell the sacks are optional.

      This is illustrates how men and women think.

      When a man and a woman go out on a date, from the woman's point of view a good date is something like man to shows up well dressed, clean shaven, smelling good, have a little money on him, driving a halfway decent car. He should atleast be employed, be attentive, informed, educated, able to carry on a decent conversation. He must be caring. hospitable, charitable and generally an all around good guy.

      From the man's point of view a good date is she shows up naked and brings beer.
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      • Profile picture of the author HomeBizNizz
        Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

        but women look hot in tool belts.
        Yeah, women look hot even as boring housewives... :p
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    • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      I don't think there are any absolutes
      Are you absolutely sure there are no absolutes?

      (just messin' with ya patrician, my sense of humor gets me in trouble around here often)
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    ... yeh and therein lies the rub - (pun intended)

    I know you are trying to be funny and I get it - but you have no idea, not being a woman how demeaning that is.

    Oh great, all I have to do is be a slut. Doesn't matter if I have any other redeeming qualities.

    ... I know what you are saying - some PEOPLE would have sex with anything - even someone they hate. They are animals. (pardon me to dogs)

    I was always told the fastest way to clear a room of men is to mention 'marriage' -

    ... but I will tell you a quicker way - say you are abstinent (unless married).

    This is a sick fricking world.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      ... yeh and therein lies the rub - (pun intended)

      I know you are trying to be funny and I get it - but you have no idea, not being a woman how demeaning that is.

      Oh great, all I have to do is be a slut. Doesn't matter if I have any other redeeming qualities.

      ... I know what you are saying - some PEOPLE would have sex with anything - even someone they hate. They are animals. (pardon me to dogs)

      I was always told the fastest way to clear a room of men is to mention 'marriage' -

      ... but I will tell you a quicker way - say you are abstinent (unless married).

      This is a sick fricking world.
      Its not meant to be demeaning, i'm illustrating how easy it is for women to manipulate men.

      If its demeaning to anyone, its men. I'll be the the first to say that men are like big dumb animals. We are led by our.....instincts. When women figure that out, then they will have no problem understanding a guy and will know how to deal with them. Women are waaaaay smarter than men in most cases. You don't have to be a slut, you just have to be a female.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

        I'll be the the first to say that men are like big dumb animals. We are led by our.....instincts.
        Those aren't men.

        Men have instincts, and are aware of those instincts, but are not controlled by those instincts.

        Women understand this. They don't like or want the kind of "man" that can be led around by his... nose. They may be able to manipulate such a person easily, but that's not what they want.

        By the same token, men don't want to be manipulated, and certainly don't walk around proudly advertising how easy it is to manipulate them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Those aren't men.

          Men have instincts, and are aware of those instincts, but are not controlled by those instincts.

          Women understand this. They don't like or want the kind of "man" that can be led around by his... nose. They may be able to manipulate such a person easily, but that's not what they want.

          By the same token, men don't want to be manipulated, and certainly don't walk around proudly advertising how easy it is to manipulate them.
          It doesnt matter if they are proud or not. Nature is nature. You might as well be saying 'birds dont want to fly, and they certainly dont walk around proudly advertising that they can fly.'

          Not controlled by insticts? Really? Explain how someone can think of something every six seconds of their waking day and not be controlled by it.
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

            Explain how someone can think of something every six seconds of their waking day and not be controlled by it.
            It's called "discipline," and actual men don't need it explained.
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            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              It's called "discipline," and actual men don't need it explained.
              easy mr manly man...
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  • Profile picture of the author BurgerBoy
    I'm retired now - but when I was in business I always had around 50 employees working for me.

    I always had around 45 female employees and around 5 male.

    The reason? All the male employees wanted to do was stand around loafing and trying to look macho with an attitude and get paid for doing nothing. The only thing they were good for was lifting heavy cases and stuff that were to heavy for the women to lift.

    The women were great employees. They would do anything you needed for them to do.

    They did their work fast and efficient all the time and were far superior to male employees.

    They hardly ever called out from work and the males called out all the time and you never know if they would be there or not.

    The female employees were the only ones you could count on being at work.
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  • Profile picture of the author nouman zafar
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    It's called a mind and a will. That is what differentiates us from animals (supposedly).

    Men do think with their "other brain" (lol)

    That doesn't make it right.

    You sure like to argue (MM)- at least you have a 2nd hobby (JUST JOKING)

    They say we are all female first in the womb, and then some of us go on to 'evolve' into males.

    My theory is all the energy used to do that depletes the brain function (the one in your head)

    I love men, don't get me wrong - but I will not care about their 'other brain' unless they have a mind and a heart.

    So it goes in this order with me.

    Face (ok move forward) (not ok bolt)
    Presentation (clean, demeanor, etc) (ok move forward) (not ok bolt)
    Character (could I believe him) (if not bolt)
    Mind (ok stay on) (not ok bolt)
    Heart (if present move on) (if not bolt apply virtual stilletto)

    In other words in order for any size 'other brain' to work for me there would have to be a mental, spiritual and emotional connection.

    if not - well (i bolt) and that is why i am usually alone and would much rather be than to have yet another rotten SOB that brings nothing but chaos and pain.

    chime in here with 'somewhere, over the rainbow, someone waits for me'.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      It's called a mind and a will. That is what differentiates us from animals (supposedly).

      Men do think with their "other brain" (lol)

      That doesn't make it right.

      .
      its not 'right' or 'wrong' its nature.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Patricia,

        Umm... Do you realize just how much of what you've said is controlled - even dictated - by the same sort of evolutionary drives that create the alleged "other brain" in men?

        Hint: 100%. Just sayin'.

        Same with CDarklock's alpha-style act of defining a "real man."

        I'm not taking sides on who's "correct" or "incorrect." Nor do I see anything morally "wrong" with any of the positions on this part of the subject, since I don't recall seeing any of them advocating force. Just pointing out that they're all from the same drive.

        I enjoy seeing smart, educated people talk about this stuff. It's always a useful reminder of just how deep the drives go.


        Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Well, yes Paul, I do realize that.

    I do however feel that we (our behavior) can be transcended by the 'higher' instincts like hello, reason, patience, discipline, ethics - WILL - ya know, sense and sensibilities.

    Nothing will "dictate" to me (pun here) that I cannot overcome, even with great difficulty and sacrifice, and gladly, since I want what I want and I don't take any (more) shallow imitations. (it's called experience and maturity I think they call it).

    I think men/women can fly, go through walls, read minds, etc - right now it is on a different 'plain' of EXISTENCE, or hidden, in most cases, however;

    ...so certainly I believe that if they wanted something more than 'cheap thrills' they can learn to control the "rocket in their pocket" - now that's assuming alot and why I say 'can' and not 'WILL'...

    God, I can't believe I am having this conversation. I wasn't always a prude...
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Well, yes Paul, I do realize that.

      I do however feel that we (our behavior) can be transcended by the 'higher' instincts like hello, reason, patience, discipline, ethics - WILL - ya know, sense and sensibilities.

      Nothing will "dictate" to me (pun here) that I cannot overcome, even with great difficulty and sacrifice, and gladly, since I want what I want and I don't take any (more) shallow imitations. (it's called experience and maturity I think they call it).

      I think men/women can fly, go through walls, read minds, etc - right now it is on a different 'plain' of EXISTENCE, or hidden, in most cases, however;

      ...so certainly I believe that if they wanted something more than 'cheap thrills' they can learn to control the "rocket in their pocket" - now that's assuming alot and why I say 'can' and not 'WILL'...

      God, I can't believe I am having this conversation. I wasn't always a prude...
      Yeah...but do we really want to transcend natures urges? Have you ever heard the saying 'more brains than balls'? This usually means a person (man most times) that tries to act the way you are talking about. I'm not saying that men should be pure animals, but there has to be a little give and take between nature and political correctness.

      Many of the great things done through mankinds history were done by men (and in some cases women) that went with their gut instinct, they shot first, asked questions later. Whether we agree with them now or not is irrelevant because if they hadn't been done to begin with, then we wouldn't have the ability to be able to sit here and have the debate of whether or not they are right or worng.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

        Yeah...but do we really want to transcend natures urges?
        You are hereby excommunicated from the human race, and sentenced to live in the garden eating nasturtium seeds.

        "Do we really want to," indeed. Transcendence is what we are. It is our very purpose. If you're not even going to bother trying, get out of my species.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          You are hereby excommunicated from the human race, and sentenced to live in the garden eating nasturtium seeds.

          "Do we really want to," indeed. Transcendence is what we are. It is our very purpose. If you're not even going to bother trying, get out of my species.
          It is not our purpose. Its your purpose. Newer is not always better. You see what trying to 'transcend' natures plan has gotten us today? Kids too fat to get out of their own way because heaven forbid they should play games like dodgeball or soccer that are fueled by competition (a natural urge) because some dont want their feelings hurt. Men who are terrfied to ask out women because they dont want to be labeled a stalker or sexual predator. Militaries of other countries around the world salivating at the thought of attacking us because our 'transcendence' made us very docile and almost fearful of violence. Here's a tip for you...not everyone on the planet is like that. If you 'transcend' to the point that you think you're above 'getting dirty' like other people, then you lose.

          The difference between a winner and a loser is a winner is willing to do whatever it takes to win. Many times this will give cause to harken back to the natural urges you wish to rid yourself of, so when it comes time you need to call on them, you will have forgotten how to tap those primordial urges to your benefit due to psychological atrophy.

          good luck with that
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

            If you 'transcend' to the point that you think you're above 'getting dirty' like other people, then you lose.
            Above it? Heaven forbid. There's a woman just over half my age in the bed behind me right now.

            But I am not controlled by it. I can actually sit this close to a gorgeous and willing young woman in a state of undress, and still get work done.

            What about you? Still having that six-second problem?
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            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              If you're not even going to bother trying, get out of my species.
              How very caveman of you...


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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
              Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

              Above it? Heaven forbid. There's a woman just over half my age in the bed behind me right now.

              But I am not controlled by it. I can actually sit this close to a gorgeous and willing young woman in a state of undress, and still get work done.

              What about you? Still having that six-second problem?
              References to sexual performance? That looks like a textbook passive aggressive response to a percieved 'competitor' whats the matter manly man, havent gotten that discipline thing lined out for yourself just yet?
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              • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

                References to sexual performance?
                Where? All I said was that sex was available, and I was choosing not to have it.

                That's discipline and transcending your animal nature. There's absolutely nothing in there about performance.

                But now that my wife is home, there are two beautiful women in the bed behind me, and I am outvoted. So I will leave you to sit around smugly secure in the notion that I am not such a superior being after all, with all my aggression and whatnot.
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                "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    hey hey hey - This is starting to get off the subject and get to the usual punching and jabbing. An intelligent debate is where we ought to be able to learn from our differences and maybe we can't agree.

    Being transcendental means 1.To go or pass beyond the limits of knowledge. 2.To rise above in excellence or degree. 3. To be surpassing.

    I don't see where that means people are stupid, slow, or backwards.

    Why are there so many millions of 'accidental' children living with "single parents"? Why are there so many divorces? Why so many families on welfare, starving, etc? It's Dick thinking. It's because there was nothing there but sex in many cases. 'Building your house on the sand' -

    It can be all good if you can find someone who wants nothing else, then good for you. Keep it up and see where it gets you.

    I don't care if you can agree with my point, and if not it doesn't make you bad or me stupid.

    I believe that people should think before they jump, that's all. But let me get out of here in the cave. It's starting to get ugly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    You can't imagine how much better i feel now.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Patricia,
      hey hey hey - This is starting to get off the subject and get to the usual punching and jabbing.
      Was that in reference to my caveman comment?

      If so, understand: I was not suggesting that anyone was slow, stupid or anything else unflattering. I've long said that we are, on our good days, about 3 steps out of the caves. I do not exclude anyone from that opinion.

      I have not agreed or disagreed with anything anyone has said in this thread. I'm simply pointing out that all of it - all - is driven by the same urges that some folks are claiming they've "overcome" or "controlled."

      That's neither good nor bad. It simply is.

      The drive to be the alpha male is quintessentially "caveman" in nature. The primary benefits to the alpha position are increased mating opportunities, higher social status and control of the tribe.

      I think my comment was both accurate and appropriate. Certainly not, however, in any way intended as an insult.

      If you were responding to someone else's comments, though, feel free to ignore this. Hell, feel free to ignore it in either case.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Paul, no I was not referring to you at all in any way, except where I said "Paul,..." (I think you are very intelligent and I pay attention when you say something). blush. You have a way of saying something that makes sense and therefore does not offend, even if you do not always agree with me.

    There is someone in the conversation that reminds me of my domineering mother . Only her opinion is valid. If you beg to differ you could be called anything from a Jezabel to a complete degenerate, and then she goes Italian with 'you are a disgrace to the family'. mama mia the fascista.

    ...so, suffice it to say I am hyper-vigilant with this type of personality. I think my opinion is valid and it is upsetting to be 'called out' for trying to express myself -

    - disagree with me? cool - opposites attract - but there is no need for being nasty and condescending.

    The forum (OT) is such that there is barely a thread I will participate in anymore, and as the conversation always degenerates when this particular Male Mommy Dearest is in it, I say it every time, do not go there. (then i go); whatever.

    Check it out - there is nobody on the planet that appreciates the ALPHA MALE more than I do. I always say these types do not need to ACT LIKE a man. They KNOW they are a man, and they exude strength just by their presence. (opposite of macho. controller and pig).

    I am just saying something really fundamental (in my addled female way):

    If it is not about love, forget it.

    Other than that, I can't be bothered. See, I read somewhere that men see things as one day at a time and women look at the big picture.

    So in this context, it rolls down to something that I know sounds ridiculous - (I hear all the men running out of the room now) If I analyze a guy and can't say I would marry him, then I wouldn't consider subjecting myself to any part of him (beyond a platonic friendship).

    It's been a long, painful road to get here, but I am glad I have arrived. Not to say being dateless (abstinent) and alone is not painful, but it just doesn't hurt as bad as being played.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      If it is not about love, forget it.
      I see it a little differently: if it is not about respect, forget it.

      When you're in a relationship with someone, each of you has a level you want to reach, and that's as far as you're willing to go. Whichever one of you wants more is required to respect the other person's desire not to go there.

      If I don't want marriage, then no matter how much you want it, respect demands that you don't press the issue.

      If you don't want sex, then no matter how much I want it, respect demands that I don't press the issue.

      Mutual respect is a fundamental basis of any relationship. You need to understand what the other person wants from it, and have the discipline and dignity to let it be what it can be - even if you might want more.

      Respect is part of love, ideally, but love is a lot more - and love is not necessarily in every relationship. Respect, on the other hand, ought to be.
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      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Anyone with any of their 5 senses working can tell there is a difference between men and women. It used to be a much different world. Only recently have we had the technology to free us from our need for many of the separations between the sexes that we used to need.

    Women until recently have been highly socialized to be absolutely helpless outside of the home. That is changing rapidly. As women are coming into more power in the public sectors, the stats for violent crimes committed by women are rising rapidly.

    Where modern society lost touch is that they started to mistake division of labor to mean inadequacies in one gender. Somehow the thought that women were weaker led to the idea they were also less intelligent. Not having equal education for centuries didn't help that idea much. But now that education has equaled out - and women aren't strapped to a kitchen and babies and actually get out of the house, the realization that we can be formidable intellectual powerhouses is finally getting out.

    It's actually becoming normal for a woman to be able to do "woman" things and her man is able to do "man" things all day, yet at the dinner table at night they are actually able to talk intelligently without dismissing the intellectual validity of their partner.

    One factor that men have misunderstood and makes them feel so superior - is all such a lark. The male brain has a gland that the female lacks. It produces hormones which make it difficult for a man to think logically when in an emotional state. A woman can be in a fit of tears, fear, or in an angry tantrum and still be able to think as clear as she is able when calm. The man views the woman as "losing it" when she, in fact, is not at all lost - just hurt or pissed. She's still got the same amount of logical faculties at work as when she's chilled. Some are more intelligent to begin with than others, but find guys you can't say that about, too. I know guys so severely stupid I can't imagine them doing anything but pulling a plow, too - male organs are no guarantee of intellect.

    Men also are also under a false impression that women are not as good at directions as men. It turned out that was more a factor of socialization than of intellect. Women weren't a used to travel as men. She stayed home while he went out to hunt, war, etc - and had to find his way home. Women who travel a lot, though, can tell direction just as well as a man. I am guilty of reverse descrimination in that case. I travel all the time and can find my way around just fine. If I do get off the trail, I don't often ask directions, not because of pride, but because many who give directions shouldn't - they send you to the wrong place. When there's a man in the car I'll hand him a map and I've been known to get unreasonably perturbed if he can't read it correctly.

    There will always be biological differences to clog up our rationality, but as long as we realize that the other gender has both extreme stupid members and extreme intelligent members it will take us a long way toward looking at people as individuals and not group them according to gender.

    Despite - Women do have sex drive, too - even if it isn't the same as men's and I see nothing degrading about dressing to kill once in awhile. I'm sure I wouldn't want to live in frivalous shoes, but on those warm nights with a great guy, I sure am glad that someone makes them. As long as a guy doesn't see a woman as valuable or interesting only when she looks like she's ready to leap his bones, I really don't see the problem with it.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    To get back on topic in the off topic asylum and group therapy session,

    female vs. male serial killers.

    One point to ponder:

    S & M - Sadism vs. Masochism

    Somewhere I read that there is only S - Sadism.

    We direct this to others as in S or to ourselves as in M.

    Just as in the anatomical differences between M & F, men may feel more 'comfortable' directing these emotions/actions outwardly, where women internalize more.

    Not that I have stats, but I would guess (whether real or farce) most stories I have watched about killers, there is some history of the killers having been abused physically and mentally.

    I have seen both men and women repeat the patterns in their adult life - to feel like dirt and be attracted to people who will abuse them; and they allow it. (I read that is because that is all that they think they deserve, and blame themselves for it)

    ...OR the victim becomes the abuser. I think this is true of either M or F.
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  • Profile picture of the author BurgerBoy
    Anybody ever heard the old saying:

    Men use women to get sex.

    Women use sex to get men.
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    • Profile picture of the author HomeBizNizz
      Originally Posted by BurgerBoy View Post

      Anybody ever heard the old saying:
      - Men use women to get sex.
      - Women use sex to get men.
      My version:
      - Men gives affection to get sex.
      - Women gives sex to get affection.


      Originally Posted by Biz-Port View Post

      This is a "Sticky" - "No Win" thread.
      Yep, a popular thread.
      Did not see that coming.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Very true. CDarklock I seemed to have left that off my list.

    Respect is paramount in any relationship on any level.

    Right on - the 'getting to know each other' stage in the beginning does set the pattern, and where you can learn a lot about whether or not you BOTH want to move forward, or if by the same token you don't see a future there.

    One thing I have learned through all my failed relationships is not to ever 'settle' anymore - it is either there or not there, no matter how you look at it.

    I have read stats on interviews with 10,000 guys and the astounding part to me is that THEY agree, having sex too soon will usually always doom any chance of a 'meaningful' relationship.

    So if a guy is pushy I know that is all he is about.

    (I have never proposed marriage to anyone) However, if they try to force their 'agenda', then I have to explain that I would be interested only in the context of a committed relationship. That is the only way the subject ever comes up. Talk about doomed from off the dime. lol.

    "Virtue is its own reward"
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    a commendable point of view.

    no doubt lonely...but commendable.
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  • Profile picture of the author Biz-Port
    Originally Posted by HomeBizNizz View Post

    Women & shoes vs. men & tools.
    Go figure...
    This is a "Sticky" - "No Win" thread. Readers Beware.
    In my opinion, worse than any religious or political conversation.

    Everybody sing, We all do know the words to this, right?
    "O be careful little mouth what we say".

    As time passes and the months/years come and go, what remains is,
    the tools, the shoes and the credit card bills. :confused:
    :rolleyes:

    Everybody, Have a Great day.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        S & M - Sadism vs. Masochism
        Thanks Pat.
        I thought S&M stood for Spaniards and Mexicans.
        I was all set to go to a S&M club tonight and try to hook up with a hot Latino girl:rolleyes:
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        Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
        Getting old ain't for sissy's
        As you are I was, as I am you will be
        You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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        • Profile picture of the author Patrician
          oh hot frijoles - wear a 'raincoat'', tom...


          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          Thanks Pat.
          I thought S&M stood for Spaniards and Mexicans.
          I was all set to go to a S&M club tonight and try to hook up with a hot Latino girl:rolleyes:
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

            oh hot frijoles - wear a 'raincoat'', tom...
            Pat you are incredible.
            I just looked outside and it does look like rain.
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            Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
            Getting old ain't for sissy's
            As you are I was, as I am you will be
            You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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  • Profile picture of the author markbrown0316
    Men are from Mars and women are from Venus they say. Both have different virtues.
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    • Profile picture of the author barbling
      Getting back to the original question, as I have major ankle problems I will never ever ever wear high heels (walking is enough of a, ahem, joy as it is!).

      However, after losing 50+ pounds, I did start wearing sleeveless tank tops (and never had done that when growing up as well). I viewed my own particular hero's journey as something to celebrate...and showing off my extremely buff deltoids/biceps was (and is) quite enjoyable indeed. Heck, I even got my own sleeveless karate gi for my adult karate classes too.

      Regarding stereotypes, I cannot control how the world thinks but I can CHOOSE how I react. Makes all the difference in my interactions both online and off.

      Men in high heels wouldn't do it for me. Buff men in sleeveless karate gi's....now THAT's hot. Hakamas work too.
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