"Designer Babies" Are On The Way

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Designer babies - genetically modified for beauty, intelligence or to be free of disease - have long been a topic of science fiction.

This is not HG Wells, you can imagine people doing this soon” - Dr Tony Perry University of Bath
As well as simply cutting the DNA to make mutations, as the Bath team have done, it is also possible to use the technology to insert new pieces of genetic code at the site of the cut.

It has reopened questions about genetically modifying people.

Would this be a great scientific breakthrough in respect of the following . . .

Prof Robin Lovell-Badge, from the UK Medical Research Council said testing embryos for disease during IVF would be the best way of preventing diseases being passed down through the generations.

However, he could see such potential uses of "germ-line therapies" for men left infertile by damaging mutations.

While they can have children through IVF, any sons would still have the mutations and would in turn need IVF. Genetic modification could fix that.

It would also be useful in circumstances when all embryos would carry the undesirable, risky genes.

Or is it meddling and tampering with something that should be taboo? In other words, playing God.


'Designer babies' debate should start, scientists say
  • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

    Or is it meddling and tampering with something that should be taboo? In other words, playing God.
    Smarter, greater health, longer lives? Why in the world would we want that for our children?
    It's insane, I tell you...insane.....

    I base my life on eleventh century superstitions...and I think you should too.
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    • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      Smarter, greater health, longer lives? Why in the world would we want that for our children?
      It's insane, I tell you...insane.....

      I base my life on eleventh century superstitions...and I think you should too.
      I left it open to opinion (note the question mark). I never said it was my opinion.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

        I left it open to opinion (note the question mark). I never said it was my opinion.
        I never said it was either. Sorry if you got that idea.
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    Haven't people been using this technique since we were living in caves?

    Choosing who they breed with based on looks, physical ability, etc., etc..
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

      Haven't people been using this technique since we were living in caves?

      Choosing who they breed with based on looks, physical ability, etc., etc..
      Yes, but Claude still reproduced despite this...
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      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Yes, but Claude still reproduced despite this...
        In a way that proves my point. Claude chooses his breeding partners based on their lack of eyesight, hearing and sense of smell.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

          In a way that proves my point. Claude chooses his breeding partners based on their lack of eyesight, hearing and sense of smell.
          Nonsense. I choose them based on price.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

    <snip>
    Or is it meddling and tampering with something that should be taboo? In other words, playing God.
    <snip>
    The question for me is whether humans would apply such technology wisely, for peaceful purposes. I, for one, don't believe that it would. Would falsification ever happen? Look at the debacle US democracy has become with 100% unverifiable electronic voting machines, demonstrated by university computer science departments to be easily rigged. Democracy was trashed in the United States because of a faith-based belief in technology that experts in the field don't believe in for such purposes. Falsification of experiment results has repeatedly happened with hi-technology arms industry, and apparently has with the world's biggest genetic modifier, Monsanto.
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    • Profile picture of the author AprilCT
      Just because science marches along and can do new things, it doesn't mean they should. Considering aside from moral concerns, I'll bet there is at least one thing these researchers/scientists haven't bother to consider. That is the long term effects on these babies when they reach enough maturity to realize what was done to them. There is no guarantee they will remain healthy and happy or even mentally stable throughout their lives.

      If it was me, I certainly would not be happy about it. One of each parent is just fine and the way it should be. Sometimes we really need to leave well enough alone before unforeseen effects really screw up the people who had no say in the matter. I don't like this idea at all. There will be many unintended and unforeseen consequences if this becomes routine.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by AprilCT View Post

        Just because science marches along and can do new things, it doesn't mean they should. Considering aside from moral concerns, I'll bet there is at least one thing these researchers/scientists haven't bother to consider. That is the long term effects on these babies when they reach enough maturity to realize what was done to them. There is no guarantee they will remain healthy and happy or even mentally stable throughout their lives.
        This would be more of a concern, if the changes would be negative. A child would rebel if they were blind, and it was caused by genetic manipulation. But....You turn 20 years old, and discover that you had genetic manipulation......

        "You took away the gene that increases chances of Alzheimer disease. How dare you?"
        "You turned off the gene that would have made me a dwarf. How dare you?"
        "I could have had Down Syndrome. How dare you rob me of that?"
        "I could have had epilepsy. You robbed me of that. How dare you?"

        Is there some treatment that is being proposed that a person would be angry about, when they grew up?

        I haven't given this a lot of study, and I'm open to learning.
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        • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          This would be more of a concern, if the changes would be negative. A child would rebel if they were blind, and it was caused by genetic manipulation. But....You turn 20 years old, and discover that you had genetic manipulation......

          "You took away the gene that increases chances of Alzheimer disease. How dare you?"
          "You turned off the gene that would have made me a dwarf. How dare you?"
          "I could have had Down Syndrome. How dare you rob me of that?"
          "I could have had epilepsy. You robbed me of that. How dare you?"

          Is there some treatment that is being proposed that a person would be angry about, when they grew up?

          I haven't given this a lot of study, and I'm open to learning.
          What you describe is best case scenario. However, some traits have a flipside and trying to weed out negative ones could result in the baby being thrown out with the bathwater. For example traits that mark autism are also heavily associated with genius: http://healthland.time.com/2012/07/1...ave-in-common/
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

            What you describe is best case scenario. However, some traits have a flipside and trying to weed out negative ones could result in the baby being thrown out with the bathwater. For example traits that mark autism are also heavily associated with genius.
            We would have to know quite a lot more, before any actual treatment is done. That problem can be resolved, I'm sure. If this technology ever really gets used, these "what if" questions would be answered first.

            But a generation of geniuses? I'm all for it.

            Right now, we are talking about an idea, and that's all. Nobody is creating a giant Hitler baby.
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            • Profile picture of the author rondo
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              We would have to know quite a lot more, before any actual treatment is done. That problem can be resolved, I'm sure. If this technology ever really gets used, these "what if" questions would be answered first.
              It's already being done. I know a couple who used such treatments a few years ago.

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            • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              <snip>

              But a generation of geniuses? I'm all for it.<snip>
              Generations of geniuses are already in the works. The first generations will be called "Hacks," then various "Beta" generations, then Win 1, Win 2. They'll be problematic and go berserk over this or that. The process of fixing glitches will create new unexpected glitches, but lofty promises will be made to offset it.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          This would be more of a concern, if the changes would be negative. A child would rebel if they were blind, and it was caused by genetic manipulation. But....You turn 20 years old, and discover that you had genetic manipulation......

          "You took away the gene that increases chances of Alzheimer disease. How dare you?"
          "You turned off the gene that would have made me a dwarf. How dare you?"
          "I could have had Down Syndrome. How dare you rob me of that?"
          "I could have had epilepsy. You robbed me of that. How dare you?"

          Is there some treatment that is being proposed that a person would be angry about, when they grew up?

          I haven't given this a lot of study, and I'm open to learning.
          What if you produced a man child that was physically fit, incredibly handsome, genius level intelligence, but had a 2" .... well, you know. Will the child be happy or sad? lol.

          ...and what if you created an entire generation of genius level, superior in every way individuals ... who would check you out at Walmart and every other store and who would run the trash collecting trucks and do all the other things that genius level superior individuals wouldn't want to do?
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            ...and what if you created an entire generation of genius level, superior in every way individuals ... who would check you out at Walmart and every other store and who would run the trash collecting trucks and do all the other things that genius level superior individuals wouldn't want to do?
            Suzanne;

            That's a good question. Here's the answer. Genius doesn't mean ambitious. It just means that you can figure things out faster. There are plenty of geniuses that have menial jobs. And while they are doing their jobs, they are thinking brilliant thoughts.

            In fact, most wealthy people have IQs under 130. At a much higher IQ, you don't relate to others as well, and tend to not go as far in business.

            What if everyone was a genius? There would still be people in every type of job....because some are more ambitious than others, and some are more interested in business than others.

            And geniuses in menial jobs are legion. I would never assume that I was smarter than a ditch digger, before I talked to him.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              What if everyone was a genius? There would still be people in every type of job....
              Suicide rates would skyrocket. Yes, there are currently geniuses in every job. However, this is more by choice. If everyone were a genius, you'd have geniuses with no choice but to do menial labor. The restlessness would be more than many could bear. You'd probably see increases in drug and alcohol abuse.

              Society would flourish due to top end achievement, but, on an individual basis, we'd see more depression and other mental illness.

              Sometimes it pays to be too dumb to realize your life is drudgery and boredom set on repeat.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                Suicide rates would skyrocket. Yes, there are currently geniuses in every job. However, this is more by choice. If everyone were a genius, you'd have geniuses with no choice but to do menial labor. The restlessness would be more than many could bear. You'd probably see increases in drug and alcohol abuse.

                Society would flourish due to top end achievement, but, on an individual basis, we'd see more depression and other mental illness.

                Sometimes it pays to be too dumb to realize your life is drudgery and boredom set on repeat.
                Not everyone is like you. (obligatory insult)

                Dan; There are geniuses now. What kind of jobs do they do now? Is there rampant suicide in their ranks?
                I think our society would adapt. New forms of entertainment, new outlets for creativity. You might be right about the alcohol and drug abuse, at least at first. But I think we would adapt. We always have.

                People in menial jobs, simply don't think about their jobs all day. They have hobbies, vacations, other interests. I'm assuming a genius in a menial job, is the same way. It's just an income to them, not something they love. Their interests would simply be outside their jobs, just like most people.

                But remember, this thread is about genetic modification. A healthier brain isn't just smarter. It could also lack the genes that trigger addiction (assuming that's how it works), cure schizophrenia. Health care would be one of the areas of fastest advancement. Surely these problems would be addressed....by geniuses.

                I'm not a genius, but I've studied a few. Frustration with other's inability to see what they see, could be a major reason for depression.

                Imagine if most people had incredible talent in art, music, science.....what an age it would bring.
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                • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Not everyone is like you. (obligatory insult)

                  Dan; There are geniuses now. What kind of jobs do they do now? Is there rampant suicide in their ranks?
                  I agreed with your assessment that geniuses occupy jobs across the spectrum. Studies conflict regarding whether rates are higher or lower among geniuses. I tend to side with the data saying rates are higher. However, your question misses the point entirely.

                  Hopelessness is a major factor in suicide. A driving factor in hopelessness is career strife. I think you can agree that mental job requirements won't change for menial labor jobs. In your scenario, though, all jobs are worked by geniuses. Ditch digging is an honest profession, but a typical genius forced to take that job would slowly rot from the inside out.

                  I don't think it takes a great deal of mental gymnastics to see rises in nearly all avoidance behaviors and suicide.


                  society would adapt. New forms of entertainment, new outlets for creativity. You might be right about the alcohol and drug abuse, at least at first. But I think we would adapt. We always have.
                  We've adapted at typical rates of adaptation. You're talking about an explosion of intellect. I don't know that we could keep pace.

                  People in menial jobs, simply don't think about their jobs all day. They have hobbies, vacations, other interests. I'm assuming a genius in a menial job, is the same way. It's just an income to them, not something they love. Their interests would simply be outside their jobs, just like most people.
                  I highly disagree with this. People derive a great deal of self-worth from their jobs. They define themselves by it. You define your self as a vacuum salesman, a marketer. Imagine, if you can, being a genius, smart enough to be anything you want, and defining yourself as a ditch digger. Depression would set in. Buy stock in Pfizer.


                  But remember, this thread is about genetic modification. A healthier brain isn't just smarter. It could also lack the genes that trigger addiction (assuming that's how it works), cure schizophrenia. Health care would be one of the areas of fastest advancement. Surely these problems would be addressed....by geniuses.
                  Potentially. Possibly. Or not. I wonder, if by eliminating all these things, we eliminate humanity itself.

                  Imagine if most people had incredible talent in art, music, science.....what an age it would bring.
                  If only people would be alive to witness it. My real issue with this entire concept is that we are running out of space for human beings on this planet and science like this wants to make people live significantly longer. It's quite a paradox, really. Science can finally make us virtually immortal. Unfortunately, there isn't enough food or space to keep us alive.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Dan inbold. Me in boring regular type.

                    Ditch digging is an honest profession, but a typical genius forced to take that job would slowly rot from the inside out.

                    Sorry, I side stepped the issue. I don't know if geniuses would be forced to take this kind of work. After all, our society would probably change. And neither of us have enough to go on, to know the real consequences.

                    I don't think it takes a great deal of mental gymnastics to see rises in nearly all avoidance behaviors and suicide.

                    Maybe avoidance behaviors. I don't know about suicide.


                    We've adapted at typical rates of adaptation. You're talking about an explosion of intellect. I don't know that we could keep pace.

                    Keep pace with what? Ourselves? And I should mention, that maybe a perfectly healthy brain, won't give us genius. Maybe it will just give us a mind free from disease. Of course, I know that I'm the one that brought up "genius" in the first place.


                    Imagine, if you can, being a genius, smart enough to be anything you want,

                    Why would someone who could be anything they want, be a ditch digger? Why do you think that no geniuses would want that job? And if we were a planet of geniuses, wouldn't we find better ways to dig ditches?


                    Potentially. Possibly. Or not. I wonder, if by eliminating all these things, we eliminate humanity itself.

                    No. We change the definition of humanity.

                    If only people would be alive to witness it. My real issue with this entire concept is that we are running out of space for human beings on this planet and science like this wants to make people live significantly longer. It's quite a paradox, really. Science can finally make us virtually immortal. Unfortunately, there isn't enough food or space to keep us alive.

                    I don't think science can make us live significantly longer now. Maybe soon. We would simply reduce the births.
                    But there is a real problem with the idea of very long lives, and fewer births (not a subject we have been talking about).

                    During a person's life, they don't learn as fast as a young person. They get stuck in opinions. They hold onto beliefs that are no longer valid. A generation has to be replaced with new people, to keep innovation and progress moving.

                    If, in the year 1,700...we all suddenly became immortal. we would still be in horse drawn carriages, and wearing powdered wigs. Change comes from the young.

                    Anyway, an interesting discussion about ...well...things we imagine could come to pass.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      Sorry, I side stepped the issue. I don't know if geniuses would be forced to take this kind of work. After all, our society would probably change. And neither of us have enough to go on, to know the real consequences.

                      Keep pace with what? Ourselves?
                      In a sense, yes, ourselves. Once this generation of insta-geniuses hits their late teens, we'd see a dramatic and immediate shift in the workforce. The last generation of mental slugs (potentially us) will be driven early from the workforce. You'll have significant amounts of displaced workers. Depending on comparative generational population size, this could be a non-issue macro-economically speaking, or a glorious fustercluck. Next, you'd have a massive brain dump in the workforce, the likes the world has never seen, which leads to...


                      Why would someone who could be anything they want, be a ditch digger?
                      Why do you think that no geniuses would want that job? And if we were a planet of geniuses, wouldn't we find better ways to dig ditches?
                      Nobody would. Many would have to. The ubernerds would rise to the top. Your typical nerds would be left to do the menial tasks. Initially. This is where your "adaptation" and my theory of mass Rube Goldberg-esque suicides come to battle. Would we adapt? Sure, but the damage, mentally and physically, would be significant, in my opinion.


                      I don't think science can make us live significantly longer now. Maybe soon. We would simply reduce the births.
                      I seriously doubt we'd see a significant reduction in births. I can only see a draconion government being able to pull that off. People won't stop shooting out kids without a fight.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Dan in regular print, as he deserves. Claude in Bold, as I deserve.

                        In a sense, yes, ourselves. Once this generation of insta-geniuses hits their late teens, we'd see a dramatic and immediate shift in the workforce. The last generation of mental slugs (potentially us) will be driven early from the workforce. You'll have significant amounts of displaced workers. Depending on comparative generational population size, this could be a non-issue macro-economically speaking, or a glorious fustercluck. Next, you'd have a massive brain dump in the workforce, the likes the world has never seen, which leads to...

                        I can see a major shift for about 30 years. Maybe very painful, maybe not. Probably painful for some of the old guard.


                        Nobody would. Many would have to. The ubernerds would rise to the top. Your typical nerds would be left to do the menial tasks. Initially. This is where your "adaptation" and my theory of mass Rube Goldberg-esque suicides come to battle. Would we adapt? Sure, but the damage, mentally and physically, would be significant, in my opinion.

                        Underneath your statement about "Many would have to", lies reasons for thinking that. Personally, I think that some people wouldn't mind that work. I know some geniuses, and I'll bet you do too. They aren't more ambitious than we are. They are just smarter. A genius friend of mine taught fencing (with a sword). Another worked in a wood shop, making cabinets.. Neither were ambitious. They just thought deeply, and in a more complex way that we do. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I need reasons to convince me. (not that you are obligated)


                        I seriously doubt we'd see a significant reduction in births. I can only see a draconion government being able to pull that off. People won't stop shooting out kids without a fight.

                        If we suddenly had a problem with longer living humans, we would adjust. Maybe you would have to agree (if you were treated to live twice as long) that you would only have 2 kids. Or maybe we wouldn't be able to have kids, after 50...maybe menopause will still happen, but we would just live longer after that.

                        It's an interesting thought experiment.


                        Added a tad later;

                        One difference we may have, is that I would sacrifice to see later generations be superior to us. Even if it were painful, to me personally. And I would see the value of the lowest of us suffering, if the majority of us were more prosperous.

                        I don't think we will ever have a society without losers.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          Underneath your statement about "Many would have to", lies reasons for thinking that. Personally, I think that some people wouldn't mind that work. I know some geniuses, and I'll bet you do too. They aren't more ambitious than we are. They are just smarter. A genius friend of mine taught fencing (with a sword). Another worked in a wood shop, making cabinets.. Neither were ambitious. They just thought deeply, and in a more complex way that we do. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I need reasons to convince me. (not that you are obligated)
                          Here's where we're getting stuck. You keep referring to our current crop of geniuses who work in menial jobs. These geniuses have chosen to do this, for whatever reason, be it lack of ambition, social skills, crushing societal norms, whatever, but they've chosen to.

                          I'm talk about an entire population who haven't chosen to. You know all those non-geniuses who work menial jobs now along side the unambitious geniuses? They are dead, gone, pushed out of the workforce. Their replacements? Geniuses who don't want to be there.

                          However, I truly couldn't care less. I'll be dead. My entire reason for my comments was to get to this - and you glossed right over it:

                          Imagine, if you can, being a genius...
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                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                            Here's where we're getting stuck. You keep referring to our current crop of geniuses who work in menial jobs. These geniuses have chosen to do this, for whatever reason, be it lack of ambition, social skills, crushing societal norms, whatever, but they've chosen to.

                            I'm talk about an entire population who haven't chosen to. You know all those non-geniuses who work menial jobs now along side the unambitious geniuses? They are dead, gone, pushed out of the workforce. Their replacements? Geniuses who don't want to be there.
                            :
                            I didn't gloss over it. I doubt your proposition that there would be geniuses that have to do a menial job.

                            Just like I don't believe there are people now, of normal intelligence, that have to do menial jobs. And ambitious geniuses? I would think that they wouldn't be doing low paying hard work, unless it's in line with their ambition.

                            Also, my idea of "Genius" may be different from yours. The geniuses I know have greater math skill, writing skills, musical talent...but they really are just like us, except that they learn faster, and process information more efficiently.

                            In my examples, I wasn't imagining a planet full of Stephen Hawkings. But people that think in better ways than we do. Not intellectual supermen.

                            The whole premise of the conversation is pretty Pollyanna. a new generation of smarter people would be very much like us, or at least the top 50% of us.

                            I suspect we aren't disagreeing. We are simply imagining that the other one is thinking something, they are not.

                            Are you thinking that ambitious geniuses would be forced to dig ditches because;
                            They can find no other work?
                            They are assigned the task?

                            My thought was that one of these things would become true;
                            Digging ditches would start paying enough that it would become attractive, for its income alone.
                            Another method would be used to dig ditches, that requires less work, and more machinery.
                            An alternative to ditches would be found.

                            In our "everyone is smarter" imaginary world, not everyone would be a genius. After all, increase everyone's IQ by 25%, and you still have a large section of the population that is normal, or dull normal. With genetic diversity, you get the elite, and the losers, and the majority in between.

                            And, I hate to say this. But most people are sheep...followers Not losers, but followers.. If you raise the IQ by 25%, you get a larger number of more intelligent..sheep and followers. And followers are more likely to accept whatever job is available, unless it's dangerous or painful.

                            Just thoughts, of which I'd be glad to be wrong.

                            By the way, I'd love to observe a computer simulated world, where we could adjust the average IQ, up and up and up. To see the changes, new problems, and solutions that would occur.
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                            • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                              I didn't gloss over it. I doubt your proposition that there would be geniuses that have to do a menial job. <snip>
                              Considering that some geniuses have difficulty focusing on something that bores them, they might well avoid a job that demands alertness and, instead, opt for a menial one that would allow them to think about what truly interests them, eg an esoteric topic that would never make a lot of money.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

                                Considering that some geniuses have difficulty focusing on something that bores them, they might well avoid a job that demands alertness and, instead, opt for a menial one that would allow them to think about what truly interests them, eg an esoteric topic that would never make a lot of money.
                                In fact, in my limited experience, that what happens. My 3 genius friends are like this;

                                One teaches fencing to a small class, thinks about organic chemistry, and works during the day as a peddler of office supplies.

                                Another works in a wood shop, while designing wind energy prototypes, and thinking about physics.

                                One (the only female) works in an organic food store for low wages, but thinks about medieval history, and word games.
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                                • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                  In fact, in my limited experience, that what happens. My 3 genius friends are like this;

                                  One teaches fencing to a small class, thinks about organic chemistry, and works during the day as a peddler of office supplies.

                                  Another works in a wood shop, while designing wind energy prototypes, and thinking about physics.

                                  One (the only female) works in an organic food store for low wages, but thinks about medieval history, and word games.
                                  I suspect that if there was an attempt to re-design human genes for the purpose of producing geniuses, it would also likely produce a lot of autistic individuals (some genius, some not). The fixated interests of genius (not all geniuses) have some resemblance to the fixated interests of autistic individuals (not all. Each autistic person is different).
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                    Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

                                    I suspect that if there was an attempt to re-design human genes for the purpose of producing geniuses, it would also likely produce a lot of autistic individuals (some genius, some not). The fixated interests of genius (not all geniuses) have some resemblance to the fixated interests of autistic individuals (not all. Each autistic person is different).
                                    The idea of producing geniuses may be misdirected. A healthier brain may make you smarter, but may not produce genius. It may not even be desirable to produce genius.

                                    I can imagine genetic manipulation being used far more likely, as a way to stop diseases, and brain anomalies...rather than to produce a genius.

                                    In the same way medicine concentrates on relieving diseases and suffering, rather than making us super strong, or immortal.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                  In fact, in my limited experience, that what happens. My 3 genius friends are like this;

                                  .
                                  If they consider you a friend they can't be very smart...
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                    If they consider you a friend they can't be very smart...
                                    They are really geniuses, and are really my friends. And as soon as they told me that we were friends, I untied them, and let them go home.

                                    Tough love.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                      If, over time, the world saw fit and decided that a breakthrough in gene manipulation would allow them to arrange that all new births were to be genius level human beings...And these human beings were nurtured to fully exploit their potential in whatever field that interested them....

                                      One of the first things that would go is drudgery and menial tasks, ditch digging etc.

                                      Super smart people who go into mechanical engineering, software creation (and there will be a lot more that do because that's all their is now in this senario) and quickly accelerate the creation of intelligent machines and robotic servants to do these tasks.

                                      Super smart humans who venture into world leadership and organization would quickly grasp that the world population was way too high and hopefully the smart people they lead would appreciate that and embrace the concepts of having less children because they understand the implications of using the earths resources up at the current rate giving them no time to replenish.

                                      Within a generation or so, with the earths population steady at one billion it could truly be a utopian society. We could all live a pretty good standard of living. and be free of the drudgery of doing menial tasks, free to create, to think, to head out into space.

                                      One thing about that though, would we get bored, would we actually miss going out and chopping wood for a fire, doing the dishes, building a house, making ourselves feel useful and get a sense of accomplishment on that basic level, would it be filtered out by our genius minds?

                                      Interesting, compared with just 120 years ago, domestic appliances, cars and other ways for traveling huge distances, electricity etc has cut dramatically to amount of time we would spend just keeping house. We seem to have kept the long work hours the same though though not quite as long as back then.

                                      For about the same 120 years we have also been doing something we never did before, intensive, collective R & D work in just about every field. That is why everything is constantly modified, improved and upgraded in just about every way you can think of over time.

                                      It may have taken a few geniuses to come up with the principals and base discoveries that are being it all, but now the collective labs having taken their lead are doing it for themselves, not needing geniuses to progress. Getting their slowly, in small increments.

                                      Geniuses do raise the bar though.. They would accelerate learning and make huge jumps and connections far more quickly.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                              I didn't gloss over it.

                              Yes, you did. In fact you just glossed over what I said you glossed over. You've now missed it twice.

                              You're also not quite getting what I'm saying. You are stuck applying a current situation that only provides the base line to our Amazing World with Nothing but Geniuses in the context of Menial Jobs versus Only Genius Employees. You think you're debating my concept, but you're actually debating a shade of what I'm saying.

                              We'll leave this discussion for our next lunch as I don't see an accurate back-and-forth working via text. (The real reason is I'm currently shadow boxing a migraine and the light from my screen it threatening to blow my retinas through the back of my head.)
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                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                                Yes, you did. In fact you just glossed over what I said you glossed over. You've now missed it twice.

                                You're also not quite getting what I'm saying. You are stuck applying a current situation that only provides the base line to our Amazing World with Nothing but Geniuses in the context of Menial Jobs versus Only Genius Employees. You think you're debating my concept, but you're actually debating a shade of what I'm saying.

                                We'll leave this discussion for our next lunch as I don't see an accurate back-and-forth working via text. (The real reason is I'm currently shadow boxing a migraine and the light from my screen it threatening to blow my retinas through the back of my head.)
                                I'm truly sorry you are having a migraine. I've actually gotten used to thinking, and it no longer gives me headaches.

                                I understand that auto erotic asphyxiation clears up headaches. Just a suggestion.

                                I look forward to our next lunch. Bring a bib.
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  • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
    Reminds me of the movie Gattaca.... with Ethan Hawke, Uma Thurman and Jude Law...

    In "the not-too-distant future", eugenics (in the form of conceiving "improved" children by genetic manipulation) is common, and DNA plays the primary role in determining social class. A genetic registry database uses biometrics to instantly identify and classify those so created as "valids" while those conceived by traditional means and more susceptible to genetic disorders are derisively known as "in-valids". Genetic discrimination is forbidden by law, but in practice genotype profiling is used to identify valids to qualify for professional employment while in-valids are relegated to menial jobs.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Re: "Designer Babies" Are On The Way

    Designer genes.
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Re: "Designer Babies" Are On The Way

      Designer genes.

      Designer son glasses.
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