Happy MLK Day!!

sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Happy MLK Day to you also.

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QueenMelanie

11 years ago

Great man, society should never forget about him!

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HeySal

11 years ago

Wish we could bring him back for a week or two right now. I think we need to hear what he had to say again.

Happy MLK day to you, too, TL - and everyone else.

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Richard Van

11 years ago

Happy MLK day to you TL.

I can't say we have that here but then I don't think historically we've had the same issues you've had across the pond. Not saying the British haven't taken slaves, more that as far as I'm aware there was very little slaves used in England (Why import them when the masses will do quite well enough) and another reason is I believe we've never had any, and if we have, not on the same level as across the pond, segregation.

Anyway, enjoy the film and this day, people owe a lot to MLK.

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TLTheLiberator

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Happy MLK day to you TL.

I can't say we have that here but then I don't think historically we've had the same issues you've had across the pond. Not saying the British haven't taken slaves, more that as far as I'm aware there was very little slaves used in England (Why import them when the masses will do quite well enough) and another reason is I believe we've never had any, and if we have, not on the same level as across the pond, segregation.

Anyway, enjoy the film and this day, people owe a lot to MLK.

Thanks and I hear you Rich!

And...

Its a holiday for all Americans to celebrate not just me.

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Richard Van 11 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Its a holiday for all Americans to celebrate not just me.

Yes of course chap, I was wishing it to you as I appreciate it's an important day for you and you started the thread but seeing as you said it, Happy MLK Day to all across the pond.

Actually there's an accountant who runs his own business here who has an office opposite me who was born in Jamaica but came here 20 odd years ago, we often have a bit of banter and he's a really funny guy and I just took great pleasure informing him what day it was.

He's gutted now. I told him he owes me a beer.
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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Happy MLK day to you TL.

I can't say we have that here but then I don't think historically we've had the same issues you've had across the pond. Not saying the British haven't taken slaves, more that as far as I'm aware there was very little slaves used in England (Why import them when the masses will do quite well enough) and another reason is I believe we've never had any, and if we have, not on the same level as across the pond, segregation.

Anyway, enjoy the film and this day, people owe a lot to MLK.

As for MLK? I believe he was a nice and moral guy, but many really have forgotten even the content of his "I have a dream speech". It is perhaps his most famous, and probably says it all, but it is just distorted. SNL apparently had an opening with a person playing the spirit of MLK. I believe the expectations, and disappointment were in line with what MLK would really feel.

To put things in perspective though:

Under british rule:

Slavery in the continent of America started in 1619! Banned in the northwest territories in 1787.
Banned in the US 1863, through a major war.

Slavery in America History Timeline (Abolition of Slave Trade, 14th Amendment)
The Emancipation Proclamation 1863 < Abraham Lincoln < Presidents < American History From Revolution To Reconstruction and beyond

In Canada, slavery existed until 1833.

Slavery in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In India slavery, sanctioned for and by the british ended 1843.

Indian Slavery Act, 1843 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Great Britain fully sanctioned slavery until 1833, and partially until 1843

Slavery Abolition Act 1833 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course, this is only a small example, but not all the US was involved, and the US was simply continuing what the british started. I am NOT condoning it, ONLY SAYING! I found NO evidence that my family was even in areas that condoned slavery, and certainly never found any evidence of that.

HECK, many blacks speak of over 400 years of slavery, when the US didn't even have ONE hundred years of slavery. In the us, it was 1776-<1864, or LESS than 88 years! And YEAH, the full number could only be as high as 244 years, but I think they are just not recognizing the end and today counting it as 396, or 2000-1600=400, if you disregard the partial centuries.

Steve

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Mike Anthony

11 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

HECK, many blacks speak of over 400 years of slavery, when the US didn't even have ONE hundred years of slavery. In the us, it was 1776-<1864, or LESS than 88 years! And YEAH, the full number could only be as high as 244 years, but I think they are just not recognizing the end and today counting it as 396, or 2000-1600=400, if you disregard the partial centuries.

Steve

deserving of a three eye roll salute

Nothing more.

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whateverpedia 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

deserving of a three eye roll salute

Nothing more.

And a full chorus of groans.
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Claude Whitacre 11 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

HECK, many blacks speak of over 400 years of slavery,

I don't know where they get "400 years of slavery". Most people don't even live that long.

I rest my case.
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whateverpedia

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Happy MLK day to you TL.

I can't say we have that here but then I don't think historically we've had the same issues you've had across the pond. Not saying the British haven't taken slaves, more that as far as I'm aware there was very little slaves used in England (Why import them when the masses will do quite well enough) and another reason is I believe we've never had any, and if we have, not on the same level as across the pond, segregation.

Anyway, enjoy the film and this day, people owe a lot to MLK.

Britain was the first country in the world to abolish slavery, most of whom were used in the "colonies" anyway.

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Claude Whitacre 11 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Britain was the first country in the world to abolish slavery, most of whom were used in the "colonies" anyway.

Sure, but they are way behind, when it comes to NASCAR.
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Mike Anthony

11 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Britain was the first country in the world to abolish slavery, most of whom were used in the "colonies" anyway.

Lets keep it in perspective though. They took lots of slaves and were hugely central to the "trade". They just took them oversea and particularly in the Caribbean many of the islands were considered British territories. So I am not really seeing the distinction.

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Joe Stewart

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Lets keep it in perspective though. They took lots of slaves and were hugely central to the "trade". They just took them oversea and particularly in the Caribbean many of the islands were considered British territories. So I am not really seeing the distinction.

No one was innocent. William Wilberforce fought against it for years. For anyone who's never seen the movie "Amazing Grace", I highly recommend it.

William Wilberforce - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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whateverpedia

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Lets keep it in perspective though. They took lots of slaves and were hugely central to the "trade". They just took them oversea and particularly in the Caribbean many of the islands were considered British territories. So I am not really seeing the distinction.

As I said:

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

most of whom were used in the "colonies" anyway.

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Mike Anthony 11 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

As I said:

Understood. Your post included a quote and I was addressing the whole post .
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- DJL 11 years ago
  
  Martin Luther King was cruelly taken from us too early.
  Read this to recall his powerful rhetorical skill and the beauty of his mind:
  Letter from a Birmingham Jail : Blog : Foundation for Economic Education
  
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HeySal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Happy MLK day to you TL.

I can't say we have that here but then I don't think historically we've had the same issues you've had across the pond. Not saying the British haven't taken slaves, more that as far as I'm aware there was very little slaves used in England (Why import them when the masses will do quite well enough) and another reason is I believe we've never had any, and if we have, not on the same level as across the pond, segregation.

Anyway, enjoy the film and this day, people owe a lot to MLK.

There's a lot of misconceptions about slavery, too. For instance - one of the first US slaveholders was black. A lot of the first slaves were indentured servants who earned their freedom plus land after 4 to 7 years. Johnson, an indentured servant, was freed with land and became wealthy - and one of the first actual slave holders. I'm not real clear on what laws changed to allow indentured servants become life long slaves.

Also - there were white slaves, too. The Irish were quite a large slave population over here. Not sure why they don't teach about that in schools. I never heard of that before college when I had to do some extra-curricular research and found it out. Why is that hidden info? I don't know and not going to speculate, however, there were slaves of many races here. While there were more blacks, probably due to the fact that the Islam slave traders could buy them cheaply from their capturing tribes, there were more blacks than others. Our early rich were equal opportunity pricks, though.

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whateverpedia 11 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Our early rich were equal opportunity pricks, though.

ROFLMAO

That will definitely be a contender for OT Forum Quote Of The Year 2015.
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Mike Anthony

11 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Also - there were white slaves, too. The Irish were quite a large slave population over here. Not sure why they don't teach about that in schools. I never heard of that before college when I had to do some extra-curricular research and found it out. Why is that hidden info? I don't know and not going to speculate, however, there were slaves of many races here. While there were more blacks, probably due to the fact that the Islam slave traders could buy them cheaply from their capturing tribes, there were more blacks than others. Our early rich were equal opportunity pricks, though.

Nothing was "hidden".

. They are little known facts because they were vanishingly small exceptions. Pointing at a few exceptions to even it out to "equal opportunity pricks" is just selective reasoning (and the wasting of extra-curricular education). There were more blacks because socially it was more acceptable to enslave less than full humans in a "Christian" society and blacks according to the Whites of the day fit that bill.

Pricks they were but equal opportunity they most definitely were not. Exceptions should never be used for the purpose of rewriting history. Thats nothing but fallacious reasoning

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TimPhelan

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Nothing was "hidden".

. They are little known facts because they were vanishingly small exceptions. Pointing at a few exceptions to even it out to "equal opportunity pricks" is just selective reasoning (and the wasting of extra-curricular education). There were more blacks because socially it was more acceptable to enslave less than full humans in a "Christian" society and blacks according to the Whites of the day fit that bill.

Pricks they were but equal opportunity they most definitely were not. Exceptions should never be used for the purpose of rewriting history. Thats nothing but fallacious reasoning

Yep. In 1860 there were 4,441,830 blacks in the US according to the census. 3,953,760 were slaves. That's 89%. That percentage was about the same for the previous existence of the USA. The total population in the US in 1860 was 31 million. What percentage of whites were slaves? 1%? Less? To say slavery in the US was not based on race is ridiculous. What were the Jim Crow laws and segregation about after slavery ended then? Saying US slavery wasn't about race is like saying slavery had nothing to do with the Civil War.

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zeus136

11 years ago

Thanks, and happy MLK day to you too.

Zeus

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whateverpedia

11 years ago

Surprisingly enough what MLK did in America also had a ripple effect in Australia.

Up until 1967 the Aboriginal peoples weren't even officially classed as people by the Australian government. They were considered to be part of the fauna of the land, or on the same level as kangaroos or koalas.

Taking a lead from the work of MLK, there was a referendum held to determine whether or not they should be classed as people. Over 90% voted for it I'm glad to say, although disappointed that nearly 10% voted against it.

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TLTheLiberator

11 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Surprisingly enough what MLK did in America also had a ripple effect in Australia.

Up until 1967 the Aboriginal peoples weren't even officially classed as people by the Australian government. They were considered to be part of the fauna of the land, or on the same level as kangaroos or koalas.

Taking a lead from the work of MLK, there was a referendum held to determine whether or not they should be classed as people. Over 90% voted for it I'm glad to say, although disappointed that nearly 10% voted against it.

Wow!

I did not know that.

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Claude Whitacre

11 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Surprisingly enough what MLK did in America also had a ripple effect in Australia.

Up until 1967 the Aboriginal peoples weren't even officially classed as people by the Australian government. They were considered to be part of the fauna of the land, or on the same level as kangaroos or koalas.
.

Wow. I was a kid then. I had no idea.

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Surprisingly enough what MLK did in America also had a ripple effect in Australia.

Up until 1967 the Aboriginal peoples weren't even officially classed as people by the Australian government. They were considered to be part of the fauna of the land, or on the same level as kangaroos or koalas.

Taking a lead from the work of MLK, there was a referendum held to determine whether or not they should be classed as people. Over 90% voted for it I'm glad to say, although disappointed that nearly 10% voted against it.

Well, I never looked much more into it, but I always thought they were always treated even better than how the american indians were treated after the treaties.

The Article you linked to is, by itself unclear. It even appears to shift that in the direction that I understood it was by saying:

It is frequently stated that the 1967 referendum gave Aboriginal people Australian citizenship and that it gave them the right to vote in federal elections. Neither of these statements is correct. Aboriginal people became Australian citizens in 1949, when a separate Australian citizenship was created for the first time (before that time all Australians, including Aborigines, were British subjects). The Commonwealth Electoral Act 1949 gave Aborigines the right to vote in federal elections if they were able to vote in their state elections, or if they had served in the defence force.

It is also often mistakenly stated the 1967 Referendum overturned the "Flora and Fauna Act", mandating that indigenous Australians were governed and managed under the same portfolio as Australian wildlife (no federal legislation existed under that name).[7] For example, the Australian Broadcasting Commission's Mark Colvin incorrectly stated in 2007 that prior to the referendum, "Aboriginal people weren't counted as people, they came under the Flora and Fauna Act

So they weren't treated as animals or slaves, but merely as a population separate from the colonists, and left to their own devices.

If the aborigines were merely left alone and, in fact, if it were possible for them to never know about the british coming over, why should they care for the normal british conditions? WHY VOTE? WHY be counted? I am sure the counting THERE is used for the same purpose it is in the US, which is for allocation of resources and "representation". WHY even have citizenship? From what I understand, the Hawaiians originally just wanted the US to LEAVE! The American Indians, ALSO did! The INDIANS wanted the brits to leave.

But there is a BIG difference between not counting one, and not letting them be a citizen, and enslaving them as nothing more than an animal.

Steve

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Mike Anthony

11 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

So they weren't treated as animals or slaves, but merely as a population separate from the colonists, and left to their own devices.

thats the part Armies have never gotten down. Its fine if you occupy a land that isn't yours just as long as you leave the people alone to their own devices afterwards.

But there is a BIG difference between not counting one, and not letting them be a citizen, and enslaving them as nothing more than an animal.

Steve

Degrees of vial injustice?

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Karen Blundell 11 years ago

Happy MLK day, TLTheLiberator!

Let us know how Selma is - it's on my list of must-see movies
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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

thats the part Armies have never gotten down. Its fine if you occupy a land that isn't yours just as long as you leave the people alone to their own devices afterwards.

Degrees of vial injustice?

I DID qualify it in the beginning saying that IF they never knew you were there, etc... And I DID say the hawaiians and India people just wanted the people to LEAVE.

Following YOUR reasoning, which I am NOT disagreeing with the spirit of AT ALL, by the way, The only proper avenue for the brits(that are now simply called australians) would have been to never be there.

HECK, I wish nobody even went to much of the middle east or to africa or to india. Some alive today would dislike it if they knew how they would be, but it would have been better for all. There wouldn't have been an MLK, but there ALSO would have been no whites enslaving any blacks. The US would be one of the largest oil producers in the world, and likely keep almost all local, but we wouldn't have the problems with the middle east, iran wouldn't have nuclear plants, etc...

Pakistan and Iran wouldn't have the bomb, and might have tired by now. WHO KNOWS, maybe they would be at peace by now. The unemployment situation, and inflation, would probably be better in europe and the US.

It WOULD be nice if we could have some great way to predict exactly what would have happened if the people that created the US could have simply been somewhere else in europe. Who knows, maybe the Axis wouldn't even have touched Africa in WWII. I DOUBT that, but it is possible. MAYBE, WWI wouldn't have happened, or would have been different.

Steve

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Mike Anthony

11 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Following YOUR reasoning, which I am NOT disagreeing with the spirit of AT ALL, by the way, The only proper avenue for the brits(that are now simply called australians) would have been to never be there.

Nope and your cap display doesn't make it so. Migration and occupation are not the same thing. Migration was inevitable. Some treaties and agreements come with settlement privileges without an official "occupation". Brits might have found themselves there anyway but living in better harmony with the previous inhabitants. Trade would have probably come first, then familiarity and then less aversion to their presence. Same goes for hawaii. Several islands in fact for example have entertained similar situations as Puerto Rico. Even some occupation would be considered palatable if it were co -occupation.

The egregious error was coming into the land and exercising rights to it while denying the same rights to those who were there before.

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BigFrank Banned 11 years ago

Gee - no mention that it's also Robert E. Lee Day? lol

Cheers. - Frank
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- discrat 11 years ago
  
  Damn, a person cannot even say Happy MLK day without a certain individual having to weave in commentary relating to some sort of Racial Charged Controversy
  
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  BigFrank Banned 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by discrat
  
  Damn, a person cannot even say Happy MLK day without a certain individual having to weave in commentary relating to some sort of Racial Charged Controversy
  
  You saw right through me.
  
  Ya' know - sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. "Racially charged?" Sheesh!
  
  I guess the irony was lost on you.
  
  Cheers. - Frank
  
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  discrat 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by BigFrank
  
  You saw right through me.
  
  Ya' know - sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. "Racially charged?" Sheesh!
  
  I guess the irony was lost on you.
  
  Cheers. - Frank
  
  Huh, Frank ?? Not referring to you or your Post whatsoever
  
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  BigFrank Banned 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by discrat
  
  Huh, Frank ?? Not referring to you or your Post whatsoever
  
  Oh. Sorry. lol I'm feeling a bit defensive for always being pegged as the 'trouble maker.'
  
  As Rosanne Rosannadanna would say, "Never mind."
  
  Cheers. - Frank
  
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  Mike Anthony 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by BigFrank
  
  Oh. Sorry. lol I'm feeling a bit defensive for always being pegged as the 'trouble maker.'
  
  Oh its on now frank. Trying to hustle in on my title. You have some nerve choosing MLK day to try and take the crown.
  
  Oh and your cigar is no a cigar. When they have certain substances in them and rolled yourself they no longer qualify as just um ....cigars.
  
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  positivenegative 11 years ago
  
  On the subject of MLK Day, here's some iconic imagery captured by a (then) young student newspaper editor.
  
  MLK's Selma march captured by Stephen Somerstein's lens
  
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  BigFrank Banned 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony
  
  Oh its on now frank. Trying to hustle in on my title. You have some nerve choosing MLK day to try and take the crown
  
  While my Santa is not super-glued, I'm afraid that my trouble maker crown is. Good luck trying to wrestle that away from me. :-)
  
  Cheers. - Frank
  
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  Mike Anthony 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by BigFrank
  
  While my Santa is not super-glued, I'm afraid that my trouble maker crown is.
  
  Oh please...when people say you are a trouble maker with a smile that means you are in little league son.and yes it is glued
  
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- sbucciarel Banned 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by BigFrank
  
  Gee - no mention that it's also Robert E. Lee Day? lol
  
  Cheers. - Frank
  
  Funny you should mention that. Over here in good old racist Orange County, VA, the library is closed for Robert E Lee day. No mention of MLK day. Years ago the library closed for MLK day and someone changed it.
  
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tryinhere

11 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Up until 1967 the Aboriginal peoples weren't even officially classed as people by the Australian government. They were considered to be part of the fauna of the land, or on the same level as kangaroos or koalas..

Did you read that crap on the internet ? must be true then ?

Edit: no had you read the net you would know it was crap, probably made up to sound good ?

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hardraysnight

11 years ago

am i the only one who had to google mlk day?

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BigFrank Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by hardraysnight

am i the only one who had to google mlk day?

I certainly hope so!

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- hardraysnight 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by BigFrank
  
  I certainly hope so!
  
  Cheers. - Frank
  
  too busy planning for waitangi day
  
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seasoned

11 years ago

OK, I got a few of these, BUT.....

Lie Witness News - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr....

BTW I have seen speeches by MLK recently. The basic question wasn't descriptive enough, but they end up hanging themselves. YESTERDAY, Mark dice found several that thought MLK was the first black to walk on the moon. He just likes throwing out absurd information to see if people will correct him, or if they are thinking at all. But supposedly only ONE person corrected him about MLK.

You would THINK that people would be curious and checkout why this is celebrated every year, or listen to the many programs about it.

Steve

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Happy MLK Day!!

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